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Astor Daeoli
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:02:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Astor Daeoli on 13/06/2011 17:02:53
Instead of nerfing super carriers, why not boost regular carriers and dreads?
How do you like the sound of carriers and dreads with twice the EHPs and twice the DPS?
Siege and triage timers down to 1 minute?
Ccp can always compensate for this boost by doubling the mineral cost needed to make carriers and dreads.
While this change would still see super carriers ludicrously strong in comparison to regular carriers and dreads, at least the boosted ships would narrow the ludicrously large gap, and eve's elite "I win button" owning vets would still keep their uber ships untouched.
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:07:00 -
[2]
fail ------------------------------------
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Astor Daeoli
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:17:00 -
[3]
Originally by: northwesten fail
why?
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:52:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Astor Daeoli
Originally by: northwesten fail
why?
balance is a very curious thing.
while I am always partial to boost instead of nerfing, the issue here is that carriers and dreads themselves are actually quite fine, albeit dreads do lack any semblance of true role.
the issue is, however, supers are simply too powerful. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.06.13 17:57:00 -
[5]
If you boost regular caps, the subcaps will have harder time dealing with caps. This is not a favourable, especially on wormholes.
Also the price is not an issue for large alliances or for those who already have them but it raises the bar to enter the playing field.
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.06.13 18:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Astor Daeoli Edited by: Astor Daeoli on 13/06/2011 17:02:53.... and eve's elite "I win button" owning vets would still keep their uber ships untouched.
have you NOT seen nullsec wars? SC deaths left and right (for the most part).
ignoring the fact that you're likely a troll... supercarriers really just need nerfed in their ability to hit subcaps... once they're VULNERABLE to a subcap fleet, the "i win" SC hotdrops might be re-thought...
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voiddragon
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Posted - 2011.06.13 18:46:00 -
[7]
Edited by: voiddragon on 13/06/2011 18:47:21
Originally by: Velicitia
Originally by: Astor Daeoli Edited by: Astor Daeoli on 13/06/2011 17:02:53.... and eve's elite "I win button" owning vets would still keep their uber ships untouched.
have you NOT seen nullsec wars? SC deaths left and right (for the most part).
ignoring the fact that you're likely a troll... supercarriers really just need nerfed in their ability to hit subcaps... once they're VULNERABLE to a subcap fleet, the "i win" SC hotdrops might be re-thought...
Oh please, you're the troll. It's a well known fact that super carriers have obseleted dreadnoughts and with the buffer tank they have, a fleet of 100 subcaps can go against a fleet of 10 super carriers that are logged off and only get 1 or 2 kills.
This was actually well debated in the alliance tournament. Super Carriers and titans are too powerful.
The point is that if you're not a super pilot then you're obsolete in 0.0 warfare. Look at the facts, super carriers have remote ECM bursts, rr, 20,000 damage, neuts, utilities, etc... Titans instant kill anything that's not a super and they both have tanks that make them immune to warfare against subcaps AND they're immune to warp scramble. HICs don't get RR, your only tactic is to spam dictors and bubbles to get a kill on them.
"Supers are supposed to super" doesn't fly in my opinion, they should be 2 or 3 times better not 20 times better.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.06.13 18:49:00 -
[8]
I'll say it again
sub system targeting
small sig radius targets on super caps that only medium or smaller weapons can hit.
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Cors
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2011.06.13 19:03:00 -
[9]
I still think all capitals should be practically immune to subcaps.. and subcaps be immune to capitals.
--- The REASON for being in 0.0 is to stand on a piece of sand, plant your flag, and say proudly to the alliance's around you... MINE! Come git Some.... |
MeBiatch
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Posted - 2011.06.13 19:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Velicitia
have you NOT seen nullsec wars? SC deaths left and right (for the most part).
care to provide some stats showing sc death left and right? from what i have seen the only ship that dies less the then SC are titans and black ops...
but...
again here are the answers if you dont want sc to be nerfed...
1. Juggernauts (tech II dreads that use capital nuets infinity point 5 min siege mode capital webber that can be used on sc and titans... but juggers are vulnerable to ewar)
2. Heavy bombers (tech II tier ii Bc's that use citiadel torps coverts ops cloak and a new heavy bomb)
do this and you wont have to hit sc with the nerf bat...
but if you are determinded to kill sc...
then your options are:
reduce fb hp to paper thin
make the sc choose between fb or fighters
make the sc have to siege mode to use fb
remove sc rr bonuses...
in the end ccp will more then likely hit sc with the nerf bat but hopefully not too hard so that either juggers or heavy bombers will be also introduced...
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Speaker4 theDead
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:04:00 -
[11]
"OMG, it's not fair, SC's are too powerful, nerf, nerf nerf....."
Hello Kitty online is that way --->>>
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:04:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 13/06/2011 20:05:20 The only capital ships in EVE that are actually balanced are Dreadnoughts. It's not that Dreads need to be boosted, it's that everything else desperately needs to be toned down.
The wide scale material availability that has enabled their bulk construction needs to be dealt with, as well.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:21:00 -
[13]
The DD alpha strike is accountable for the massive HP on SC. Start there instead of fail cascading in balance issues.
My solution
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Hesperius The DD alpha strike is accountable for the massive HP on SC. Start there instead of fail cascading in balance issues.
My solution
This idea isn't bad, but it fails to take into account player behavior; everyone overcompensates with numbers. Super Carriers simply cannot remain viable in the roles they are currently used for if they are going to be re-balanced.
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voiddragon
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:27:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead "OMG, it's not fair, SC's are too powerful, nerf, nerf nerf....."
Hello Kitty online is that way --->>>
Yeah... because having a class of ship that's immune to ships that are not equal in class is such the risky play style of eve. Maybe you should go there.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:29:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Evelgrivion This idea isn't bad, but it fails to take into account player behavior; everyone overcompensates with numbers. Super Carriers simply cannot remain viable in the roles they are currently used for if they are going to be re-balanced.
How do you feel I didn't look at the fact that people try to compensate with numbers? That was a major part of the suggestion. If their role you claim they fill is to be solowtfpwnmobiles then I agree, that will not really be a good ship to fill that role anymore.
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hesperius
Originally by: Evelgrivion This idea isn't bad, but it fails to take into account player behavior; everyone overcompensates with numbers. Super Carriers simply cannot remain viable in the roles they are currently used for if they are going to be re-balanced.
How do you feel I didn't look at the fact that people try to compensate with numbers? That was a major part of the suggestion. If their role you claim they fill is to be solowtfpwnmobiles then I agree, that will not really be a good ship to fill that role anymore.
The general Swiss army knife utility of the Super Carrier is what needs to be removed. Honestly, adding fighter bombers to Supercarriers was probably a mistake that should be undone completely. Failing at that, they should be marginally or no different from previous fighters. Super Carriers should not be useful in sovereignty structure sieges.
Super Carriers have a ludicrous amount of staying power on the battlefield that was originally intended to compensate for their extreme expense. Their electronic warfare immunity also keeps them fighting when any other ship could be crippled. Since Super Carriers are literally fielded in the dozens, I'd suggest removing at least some of the electronic warfare immunity and modifying the mechanics of Nosferatus and Neutralizers to have a stronger effect against super capital ships.
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Speaker4 theDead
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:40:00 -
[18]
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead "OMG, it's not fair, SC's are too powerful, nerf, nerf nerf....."
Hello Kitty online is that way --->>>
Yeah... because having a class of ship that's immune to ships that are not equal in class is such the risky play style of eve. Maybe you should go there.
Really, so nothing can kill a Supercarrier? You mean I can drop one with no risk?
I guess all these SC kills on the various boards are actually fake KM's?
And before we start the "My Subcap fleet can't kill one!" Just what type of fleet do you expect to be able to kill the 2nd most expensive ship hull in the game?
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:48:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Evelgrivion on 13/06/2011 20:50:49
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead "OMG, it's not fair, SC's are too powerful, nerf, nerf nerf....."
Hello Kitty online is that way --->>>
Yeah... because having a class of ship that's immune to ships that are not equal in class is such the risky play style of eve. Maybe you should go there.
Really, so nothing can kill a Supercarrier? You mean I can drop one with no risk?
I guess all these SC kills on the various boards are actually fake KM's?
And before we start the "My Subcap fleet can't kill one!" Just what type of fleet do you expect to be able to kill the 2nd most expensive ship hull in the game?
Super Carriers, as re-envisioned by Abathur for the Dominion expansion, were supposed to be force multipliers. Unfortunately, the implementation simply transformed them into One Ship Kills All monstrosities which are, due to fundamental and un-fixable design flaws with the Drone Regions, entirely too prevalent in today's EVE Online.
Yes, Sub capital fleets should be able to butcher Super Carriers. Capital fleets, especially dreadnought heavy ones, should be turning super carriers into shrapnel smears on the face of space-time. In my ideal world, they wouldn't exist at all. There is entirely too much finality to their existence; they remove continuous progression and change from the dynamic of flying ships in EVE Online. Even with their abundance, few pilots keep flying their account coffins for more than a few months after getting them. Many people quit entirely if they lose their Super Carrier.
Super Carriers are the last ship most players will ever fly in EVE. For that reason alone, they should not exist.
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2011.06.13 20:50:00 -
[20]
Edited by: MeBiatch on 13/06/2011 20:51:54
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead
Originally by: voiddragon
Originally by: Speaker4 theDead "OMG, it's not fair, SC's are too powerful, nerf, nerf nerf....."
Hello Kitty online is that way --->>>
Yeah... because having a class of ship that's immune to ships that are not equal in class is such the risky play style of eve. Maybe you should go there.
Really, so nothing can kill a Supercarrier? You mean I can drop one with no risk?
I guess all these SC kills on the various boards are actually fake KM's?
And before we start the "My Subcap fleet can't kill one!" Just what type of fleet do you expect to be able to kill the 2nd most expensive ship hull in the game?
sc's are too strong because of rr and thier ability to nuet hics so they can jump out... they can use full rack of FB/ fighters and enough regular drones...
either make the sc pilot choose between either fb or fighters... or reduce its ability to rr or make a cap ship that uses an infinity point that can keep the sc in its place... (as it stands there is only one kind of ship that keeps the sc from jumping out and thats the hic... we need more options)
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.13 21:39:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Astor Daeoli
Originally by: northwesten fail
why?
balance is a very curious thing.
while I am always partial to boost instead of nerfing, the issue here is that carriers and dreads themselves are actually quite fine, albeit dreads do lack any semblance of true role.
the issue is, however, supers are simply too powerful.
I particularly like the idea my previous life came up with here. Keep their relatively low life expectancy, but make them actually do something while they are still alive.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
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