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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
Female characters can only pick high heeled shoes at the moment. Needs fixing. Please fix it. I guess it's not quite has bad as having the only way to have a black avatar to pick the 'slave' race in the lore for the first few years of the game.
Discussed previously here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=145451&find=unread
~ Politics free zone~
I would say it's higher up the priority list as the captain's quarters is something CCP thinks appeals to women.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eve-walking-appeals-to-girls
Not being able to wear flat's doesn't appeal to me :( |
Irregessa
Obfuscation and Reflections
6
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isn't it Barbie that also cannot wear flats? |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
54
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Could any professional artists with 3d modelling + animation experience give a guess as to how long it would take to implement flats and recreate the female avatar to be 2" taller?
CCPs official explanation for only heels is that the animation would be far more complex if they had avatars of different heights. Raising the female avatar by 2" to be the same as the male seems like it would solve that problem. |
NiGhTTraX
FISKL GUARDS Nulli Secunda
157
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Posted - 2012.09.11 13:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Faith in ISD restored. Took them long enough though.
Isabel Midnight wrote:I would say it's higher up the priority list as the captain's quarters is something CCP thinks appeals to women. I would say reconsider your priorities. If you're gonna post here thinking your idea is the greatest thing since bacon and that it will save EVE and possibly all humankind with it, you're gonna have a bad time. |
Ji'Ta d'Price
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yo, Isabel!
Get that cute behind in the kitchen and make me a sandwich. Once you're done, come out here and kneel down so I can use you as a foot stool.
If you hadn't linked to your sexist rant thread you'd have had a lot more credibility in this one and probably avoided the innevitable sexist remarks. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ji'Ta d'Price wrote:Yo, Isabel!
Get that cute behind in the kitchen and make me a sandwich. Once you're done, come out here and kneel down so I can use you as a foot stool.
If you hadn't linked to your sexist rant thread you'd have had a lot more credibility in this one and probably avoided the innevitable sexist remarks.
Please leave the sexist remarks at the door. There was enough of that in the original thread. That said, I agree that linking the original thread doesn't do Isabel's case any good.
@Isabel - Whilst I understand that it offends you, surely you can see that you currently have options to avoid the issue? Turn off captain's quarters and you aren't wearing any shoes. I agree with you on one count though: If and when CCP allow avatar interaction there should be more clothing and accoutrement choice.
Really, it can't be that difficult. Have two almost identical models for women. One that has legs two inches longer than the other but flat feet. That way the avatar interaction, which presumably takes place predominantly from the waist up, shouldn't be affected but those that want flat shoes can be accommodated. After all, women have different leg to torso ratios in reality so it's not that unbelievable. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
55
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not using a major feature of the game isn't really a valid suggestion |
Dennis Gregs
Dawn of Fire
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Woah, that's one long ******* chin. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
548
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Not using a major feature of the game isn't really a valid suggestion Then might I suggest you also use the context of the game itself, and not one inspired by your view of our own social ills from this world?
If you are going to be "in character", then you also should respect the story line and actual background of the character, which by no account includes any misogynist inspiration for women's shoe choices.
If you are NOT going to be "in character", then it is pixels on a screen, and anything beyond what you are wearing on your feet in the real world is meaningless.
Cherry picking details like this exclusive from their context is biased and unfair to the game and it's players. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
73
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
As a female gamer, I agree with the OP. It was stupid that the game was designed for women to be forced to wear high heels. Its stupid, and frankly, I do not understand why the OP is getting so much damn flak over it. Its a reasonable request.
How would the men here feel if 100% of their pants were assless chaps and when they wanted pants that were non-assless chaps, they'd be told their concerns were invalid and dismissed offhandedly. Its stupid.
Just because there aren't as many female eve players as male eve players does not in any way justify dismissing the concerns of the female players as unimportant, much less the outright belittling that the OP seems to be receiving.
So to the men out there who don't think this is important: Shut up, go away, and stop trolling. Just because its not important to you doesn't mean it isn't important to other people. |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
548
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:As a female gamer, I agree with the OP. It was stupid that the game was designed for women to be forced to wear high heels. Its stupid, and frankly, I do not understand why the OP is getting so much damn flak over it. Its a reasonable request.
How would the men here feel if 100% of their pants were assless chaps and when they wanted pants that were non-assless chaps, they'd be told their concerns were invalid and dismissed offhandedly. Its stupid.
Just because there aren't as many female eve players as male eve players does not in any way justify dismissing the concerns of the female players as unimportant, much less the outright belittling that the OP seems to be receiving.
So to the men out there who don't think this is important: Shut up, go away, and stop trolling. Just because its not important to you doesn't mean it isn't important to other people. Within the context of the game, we portray whatever the game designers specify.
In EVE, we happen to portray what appears to be human beings. For all intents and purposes I can accept that, as I am familiar with this form.
We could just as easily been cat people, or walking stacks of bacteria. This is an arbitrary choice, not one forced by logic. We are flying spaceships not dependent on any specific pilot anatomy, so it is not meaningful.
Assuming we have social issues in game due to similarities to human appearances in the real world is not founded on logic or any other solid base of reasoning.
Therefore, the shoe choices are not relevant either.
Players should enjoy the fact that at events we can more easily cosplay our avatars due to similarities, not assume the presence of issues existing in game worlds. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
29
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Posted - 2012.09.11 14:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:As a female gamer, I agree with the OP. It was stupid that the game was designed for women to be forced to wear high heels. Its stupid, and frankly, I do not understand why the OP is getting so much damn flak over it. Its a reasonable request.
How would the men here feel if 100% of their pants were assless chaps and when they wanted pants that were non-assless chaps, they'd be told their concerns were invalid and dismissed offhandedly. Its stupid.
Just because there aren't as many female eve players as male eve players does not in any way justify dismissing the concerns of the female players as unimportant, much less the outright belittling that the OP seems to be receiving.
So to the men out there who don't think this is important: Shut up, go away, and stop trolling. Just because its not important to you doesn't mean it isn't important to other people.
I think you'd find that most guys would think being forced to wear cheekless chaps amusing at best and not care that much at worst. Some would complain but I doubt very much they'd make a sexist argument about it.
Perhaps the issue here isn't one of computer games. Perhaps this is all about real body image and differences regarding the link people have with their avatars. Men don't tend to inject themselves into their characters as they tend to either role play as the character (and not their real self) or ignore them as an entity in favour of the ships themselves. Women, perhaps, regard their avatars as themselves rather than as an avatar and therefore their clothing, appearance and shoes actually matter to them.
Therefore, to men (and women who actually play the spaceship part of the game over walking around their captain's quarters) the concept of what they're wearing doesn't matter overly whereas women focus on it.
They're just different perspectives and not exclusive to either sex. Men are more prone to not caring what they wear in computer games and women are but obviously there are some men who are and some women who aren't. These things tend to follow a bell curve.
Why don't we remove the sexes from the discussion and focus on whether there are any good reasons for CCP to NOT introduce elongated leg models with flat shoes to the game? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
548
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Elshar Khandar wrote:Why don't we remove the sexes from the discussion and focus on whether there are any good reasons for CCP to NOT introduce elongated leg models with flat shoes to the game? As with any issue requiring time and effort, it is a matter of priorities.
To establish whether this rates immediate attention, we would need to consider the details of the game and how this affects it.
1> We do not yet have anything but the ability to see ourselves yet, and only by making specific effort to choose this. It is not a frequent event to have impact at this time with other players beyond possible test environments.
2> It is cosmetic, with no gameplay significant benefit to be had. It is difficult to even see another character's shoes. If we are going for cosmetic changes I would prefer seeing the Federation Navy Comet's police cruiser skin restored. After all, I can fly that ship and easily be seen by other players doing so. I would prefer to project the image I find most pleasing.
3> This entire forum section has CCP's to do list stickied above. And I can see many interests and suggestions vying for attention below these. This issue is trivial by comparison to most of these.
I do not believe this issue warrants attention as a priority for these reasons. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:27:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why did CCP spend years implementing this feature if it wasn't a priority? |
Alayna Le'line
20
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:As a female gamer, I agree with the OP. It was stupid that the game was designed for women to be forced to wear high heels. Its stupid, and frankly, I do not understand why the OP is getting so much damn flak over it. Its a reasonable request.
It is like this in most games, likely because high heels are considered to be sexier by most. EVE is one of the games where it bothers me the least, part of this is because I haven't seen my full avatar in quite a long time, the other part because my avatar doesn't actually get involved in anything where high heels would be a hindrance. Elshar also brings up some good points.
I don't know how much work changing it would be, of course if they use the same engine for Dust I would assume they already have a model ready, because in games like Dust high heels on female characters would actually really bother me (I know it annoyed the hell out of me in the Mass Effect games). If they don't then changing this could be a pretty big undertaking.
Anyway, as long as they don't do more with WiS I don't think this should be a high priority even though I do sympathize with the OP.
*since this seems to be one of these weird threads where all posters so far have posted with an avatar of their actual gender I feel I have to point out that I do not share my gender with my avatar. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Why did CCP spend years implementing this feature if it wasn't a priority?
Hubris.
If memory serves there was a significant backlash from the players involving large numbers of account cancellations which in turn meant layoffs within CCP which had the knock on effect of them reprioritising the various development streams (WIS was pretty much dropped at that point) followed by a public apology from the CEO.
You might think it's a priority for them but history and the majority of the players would disagree with you, I'm afraid. |
Velicitia
Open Designs
1151
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Why did CCP spend years implementing this feature if it wasn't a priority?
It *was* a priority. Then Monoclegate, the threadnarok, emergency CSM summit, Jita Riot, etc all happened.
CCP changed tracks, and put this more or less on the backburner because they realized FiS needed a lot of work. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alayna Le'line wrote: *since this seems to be one of these weird threads where all posters so far have posted with an avatar of their actual gender I feel I have to point out that I do not share my gender with my avatar.
Kudos for the honesty. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
550
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 15:42:00 -
[19] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Why did CCP spend years implementing this feature if it wasn't a priority? I never claimed walking in stations and other first person interaction like this was not a priority.
I was pointing out that your interest, in the context that this is not yet an active game aspect, is relatively trivial to the game as a whole.
You are pushing for a detail noone but you can see on your character.
And you are doing it for reasons that step outside of game lore. What in game value will flat shoes have, that the art and modeling people need to spend time and effort to offer?
Our avatars are not on earth. They do not have values derived from earth, which means the bias and prejudice from real life do not apply in the game.
Why do you insist on projecting real world issues into a game world where they have no justifiable place? Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Isabel Midnight
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Game lore means nothing to me in any way. I do care about what my character looks like. Don't try and tell me I shouldn't care about my characters appearance because GAME LOREEEEE.
If CCP update WiS (which they will at some point) this should be high on their priority list to add. I find it very unlikely that they are just going to totally abandon this feature and will release updates to it in the future, I'm saying flats should be in that update.
WiS may not have the same priority as your super important minor changes to numbers on your spaceship but it does have at least somebody working on it at the moment. |
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Ji'Ta d'Price
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.09.11 15:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote: Why do you insist on projecting real world issues into a game world where they have no justifiable place?
Because she's like a Jack Russel. She's got her teeth round a bone and she just won't let go. I've read the thread she linked and she's not interested in genuine discussion. She's decided she wants flat shoes and by Jove she's going to get them even if she has to scream for a year straight.
Save your keyboard. Seriously, she's not going to see reason on any of your points.
Asking her questions will only get you sideways replies. Your logic will be lost on her because she's an empowered emotional being who doesn't understand the concept of backing down even in the face of overwhelming justification and logic. The idea of modifying one's opinion based on new information simply doesn't exist to her.
She is always right. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Isabel Midnight wrote:Game lore means nothing to me in any way. I do care about what my character looks like. Don't try and tell me I shouldn't care about my characters appearance because GAME LOREEEEE.
Game lore means a lot to a lot of the players. Just because it doesn't to you doesn't mean it doesn't.
Isabel Midnight wrote:If CCP update WiS (which they will at some point) this should be high on their priority list to add. I find it very unlikely that they are just going to totally abandon this feature and will release updates to it in the future, I'm saying flats should be in that update.
I believe that this is what I actually said. When and only when avatar interactions become a reality does this actually matter. Are you agreeing with this?
Isabel Midnight wrote:WiS may not have the same priority as your super important minor changes to numbers on your spaceship but it does have at least somebody working on it at the moment.
You're degenerating into the arena of sarcastic insults again. Please don't go the route of your last thread. We know where that ends up.
@Ji'Ta - If you can't post without being insulting please stop posting. You've already had one post removed from this thread. Even though everyone knows that the concept of your most recent comments are very likely to be true you're doing nothing to help your standpoint in this discussion. |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox
73
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:00:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oh boy ad hominem attacks now. That's awfully mature.
And yeah, this doesn't need to be out NOW NOW NOW, but when CCP starts introducing that walking in sleeper structures thing, I'd like to not have to worry about tripping over my feet because I have nothing to wear but heels. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1303
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
I find heels as the only option rather boring. More options would be nice.
Of course, this applies to the men too. I'd like me some body tattoos to look at... |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Oh boy ad hominem attacks now. That's awfully mature.
And yeah, this doesn't need to be out NOW NOW NOW, but when CCP starts introducing that walking in sleeper structures thing, I'd like to not have to worry about tripping over my feet because I have nothing to wear but heels.
You're replying as though you were Isabel. Are you one of her alts? Or is it just coincidence that you're replying to a question obviously aimed at her? |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
551
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Oh boy ad hominem attacks now. That's awfully mature.
And yeah, this doesn't need to be out NOW NOW NOW, but when CCP starts introducing that walking in sleeper structures thing, I'd like to not have to worry about tripping over my feet because I have nothing to wear but heels. Here is a counter proposal for you then:
Have CCP declare that the appearance of heels is a clever holographic overlay onto your actual feet.
You have been wearing soft and comfortable loafers the whole time. Due to your frequent time spent in amniotic gel, your feet are less used to supporting your actual weight. To compensate for this, your shoes have built in weight redistribution fields and structural integrity enhancements for your foot, so it is not bruised or enduring unnecessary stress from walking. These fields tend to elevate the height of the average capsuleer a couple of inches, to allow a buffer zone for reducing the impact of stepping on hard surfaces. We capsuleers are like unto gods to the regular people, and we really can walk on water with this hovering effect.
Now, for those seeking the genuine experience of wearing these, the option does exist, complete with classes to balance in the awkward things. Pain meds to compensate for obvious foot discomfort are also available. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Ji'Ta d'Price
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Don't tell me to stop posting! My opinion is no less valid than yours or anyone else's on this forum. |
Elshar Khandar
The Jolly Slavers
31
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ji'Ta d'Price wrote:Don't tell me to stop posting! My opinion is no less valid than yours or anyone else's on this forum.
Your opinion is as valid as anyone else's. Your vitriol, on the other hand, is unwanted and uncalled for. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
206
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:32:00 -
[29] - Quote
I will state this once only. If this discussion is to take place, it will do so without personal attacks of any kind. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts, ideas and opinions. If you disagree so strongly that your only response is a snide remark or personal attack, then I highly recommend not posting in that thread.
I will clean this thread, modify the OP to be a little less antagonistic and then unlock it. And to everyone who posts here, keep it constructive, keep it polite or keep out. Such behaviour has no place on these forums and will not be tolerated. Now lets see if we can't have a proper discussion on this matter, you never know what it could lead to if you let it - ISD Type40.
ISD Type40 Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
551
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Posted - 2012.09.11 16:39:00 -
[30] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Here is a counter proposal for you then:
Have CCP declare that the appearance of heels is a clever holographic overlay onto your actual feet.
You have been wearing soft and comfortable loafers the whole time. Due to your frequent time spent in amniotic gel, your feet are less used to supporting your actual weight. To compensate for this, your shoes have built in weight redistribution fields and structural integrity enhancements for your foot, so it is not bruised or enduring unnecessary stress from walking. These fields tend to elevate the height of the average capsuleer a couple of inches, to allow a buffer zone for reducing the impact of stepping on hard surfaces. We capsuleers are like unto gods to the regular people, and we really can walk on water with this hovering effect.
Now, for those seeking the genuine experience of wearing these, the option does exist, complete with classes to balance in the awkward things. Pain meds to compensate for obvious foot discomfort are also available. It's a game. We can use game world solutions like this. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
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