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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
poppeteer
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.09.12 05:33:00 -
[61] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Very carefully.
Look to the left, look to the right, then look to the left again.
Oh, and indicate. Space isn't that big that you can get away without indicating you hoons! (well, that's what my pod mother implanted in my head anyway) |
Marcus Caspius
63
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Posted - 2012.09.13 03:58:00 -
[62] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:theres more than 1 engine, by adjusting the thrusting on 1 engine more than another the ship will rotate... the warp drive engine makes the space around the ship act like a "liquid"... this is also why ships get bumped when they fly into eachother instead of exploding because of the collition.
The warp drive is the reason for why our ships also doesn't keep accelerating even with the massive engines constantly running, as the warp drive creates a drag around the ship... (which is also why the ship can stop simply by stopping the engines, it would continue at same speed if it wasn't for this)
hope that information helped
I like this one! Doesn't sound too far fetched! Grammatical error and spelling mistakes are included for your entertainment!
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ACE McFACE
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
820
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Posted - 2012.09.13 05:35:00 -
[63] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.
Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.
So space magic? "7 pages of people insulting me - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar What s/he (probobly he) meant: "7 pages of people disagreeing with my terrible idea - aka trolling" - Lady Hofstedar |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
279
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Posted - 2012.09.13 05:47:00 -
[64] - Quote
Basically boils down to maneuvering jets that exhaust, (possibly heated), gases at high pressure into the vacuum, much like vectored thrust works on VTOL craft. The difference being that current designs, so far as I am aware, don't utilize heat to increase the pressure, (probably because of the energy required to heat the gases), and the gas is Oxygen afaik.
Honestly, I never looked that closely at any Spaceship, Shuttle, or Spacecraft, and the most attention I've paid to the subject of conventional Spacecraft is a really good Discovery Network show that went into some detail on the engineering of some Shuttle or other. Don't remember which one.
Principle is fairly simple. The ship travels in the direction of least resistance, and that direction is into the vacuum and away from the rapidly expanding ball of gas being vented from the ship. The maneuvering ports that exhaust the gas are or would be placed in locations engineered by design to create both precise and effective maneuvering while using the least amount of fuel to generate the motion required to do that maneuver.
I imagine a lot of that is based on surface deflection and I know some of it is based on simple principles like angles of exhaust in relation to the hull and similar concepts that will create either direct movement, or--in the latter case--cause the ship to move on its rotational axis which is related the position of that maneuvering jet with relation to mass and center of gravity with regard to that maneuvering jet.
Most maneuvering jets are--I believe--fixed on conventional Spacecraft. The new Private manned Spacecraft may use different means, and others elsewhere intended for exo-atmospheric flight primarily, may utilize more mechanical maneuvering jets.
The issue with non-fixed maneuvering jets is their impact on atmospheric re-entry and aerodynamics with regard to that re-entry, and--I imagine--any impact they might have on stable and complete lift-off and achieving orbit. Exo-atmospheric craft don't need to be as concerned with this as they are encapsulated within the hull of the rocket for lift-off and leave any non-aerodynamic components behind when they return to Earth atmosphere.
I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Keras Authion
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
104
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Posted - 2012.09.13 05:49:00 -
[65] - Quote
Amarr ships turn by having the slaves go out and push. That explains why they handle like a brick. This post was rated "C" for capsuleer. |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
279
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 05:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.
Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.
So space magic?
I suppose I took that question too literally?
..probably not as he indicated he was asking so he could explain it to his son. Of course, I might have got a bit carried away. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
146
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Posted - 2012.09.13 11:07:00 -
[67] - Quote
vectored engines |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
444
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:12:00 -
[68] - Quote
All done with magnets!
Now, explain how magnets work to your kid.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Su Ra
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.13 11:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
there's supposed to be a whole bunch of other thrusters pointing in different directions but i guess that would look ugly and people would quit the game |
Maddy Joringer
The Xziles
21
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Posted - 2012.09.13 11:15:00 -
[70] - Quote
I thought ships turned in space due to Thrust Vectoring ... |
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Luis Graca
149
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Posted - 2012.09.13 11:18:00 -
[71] - Quote
Ships don't turn it's the universe that does that |
Jake Maverick
Gallente Volunteer Defense Forces Tribal Band
61
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Posted - 2012.09.13 14:07:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes. How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?
I also always assumed it used thrust vectoring and pivoted around a gyroscope based on the way the ships bank to turn. as for how they work in a "vacuum"
first of all... Space != a true vacuum ... Nature abhors a vacuum. "Space" consists of gasses and dust and other particles at pressure much much lower than we are used to on Earth, think of it more like a slurry of plasma and garbage. The 7th grade science teacher called it a vacuum because it was easier to explain to 13 year olds that way.
Secondly the relative pressure outside a gyroscope is not what a gyroscope acts on. A gyroscope relies on inertia for it's function. We know in real life, that a gyroscope works in space because that is how ISS simulates gravity, by spinning.
If we throw science out the window and just go by eve... there are gyroscopes in game, anyone whose ever flown minmitar knows that, so however they work in eve-science... thats how they work :D
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BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
92
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Posted - 2012.09.13 14:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes. How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?
Very Well. Better than in a gas filled atmosphere with strong gravitational influence. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
202
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
The engines actually tilt There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Logi Rollins
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Spurty wrote:All done with magnets!
Now, explain how magnets work to your kid.
Magnets are powered by Space MagicGäó |
Tinja Soikutsu
Orbital Horizons University GALACTIC UNI0N
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 21:46:00 -
[76] - Quote
Actually when you consider Solar Winds the principle of treating space as a super-fluid actually isn't that far-fetched. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
538
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 22:25:00 -
[77] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:As was pointed out elsewhere on the forums, the physics in EVE are based on a super-fluid, rather than a vacuum.
Super-fluids can be affected by electromagnetic forces in a manner that causes it to become resistive. Our ships drives systems would be constantly emitting such electromagnetic waves, and by tuning those waves, or emitting them in specific directions, we would gain "traction" on the surrounding space thus allowing the ships to turn.
Superfluid dynamics explaints a lot about what's going on when ships turn in the game. Thanks! |
Methesda
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2012.09.13 22:43:00 -
[78] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: ... conservation of angular momentum (I think) Actually this makes a bit sense. Reminds me of a old psx game i played, but can't remember the name of.
NFL Blitz? hehe
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Tiger Would
EoE-Group
2314
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 22:51:00 -
[79] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:My kid came over and asked me what makes eve space ships turn, and i had to make up some random stuff about stuff he cant see on the screen. Anyone have a good answer to this?
Its all done from within the pod tbqh. Once you think you have it all, you-áhave actually become-áignorant towards everything else.
T. Would |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2174
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 22:53:00 -
[80] - Quote
Methesda wrote:Mr Steinberg wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote: ... conservation of angular momentum (I think) Actually this makes a bit sense. Reminds me of a old psx game i played, but can't remember the name of. NFL Blitz? hehe
I loved that game! "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
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Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
84
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Posted - 2012.09.13 23:02:00 -
[81] - Quote
A gyro works by momentum applied to its rotational disk. Not gravity. Unless its turned off. But then its just a disk inside three rings.
Either way:
The ships in EVE are funky:
1. Due to them being geometrically assymetrical, their Principal Axis of rotation are not aligned to the ship's axis. 2. Due to them being probably also mass-assymetrical, The above is even worsened.
The fact that they rotate the way they do, is of course, because of the EVE's main code does not support the Inertia properties of the volume enclosed by the ship. Or more specifically, the projected area in any given view (Front, Side, Top) in relation to the Center of Mass, or the Geometrical Center of Mass, does not allow for the final Principal Axis to be aligned according to X Y Z.
This fact is ignored, and instead we receive an Inertia modifier that ammount to how hard that ship is to turn. We see it by affecting agility and whatnot.
In reality, should the EVE ships be built the way they are representend, they would more easlly turn into some directions in relation to others.
Now, to this we add the assymetrical displacement of engines.
While it might be true that this arrangement promotes certain orbits, it also promotes certain specific orbits. Or more realitiscally, it promotes that the ship should more easelly turn, around its principal axis (One of them), towards a given side.
If the ships were done assymetrical on purpose, and the engines were placed in such a way that they'd compensate for the Principal Axis's different arragement towards our normal XYZ axis, then the ship could be engineer to turn equally fast in all directions. However, such is a needless engineering undertaking, as it would have just been simpler to make the ship assymetrical than fine tune the engines to have correct mass displacement properties.
This all is unchanged if we assume that the entire ship rotates around its "warp drive". Even if we assume this to be a completly isolated-from-the-ship item, held together by riboons of make believe of fields of super duperness, when the ship would rotate around it, it would still rotate preferencial to the Principal axis, centered now upon the Warp Drive, ie, its "center of mass" so to speak.
So...
I'm not saying everything should be spherical or cylinde-like, but if you want a ship to turn equally fast to the left or right, then it should be symetrical on its vertical plane, or at least inertially-symetrical. An example would be a large engine placed next to a cylinder, with a smaller engine posted farther away, to a given ratio that a bit of research by the reader can uncouver (hint, its related to the quadritic value of the distance). If we think that the ship is then assymetrical on the middle plane, then it means it'll probably have a easier time turning upwards or downwards, depeneding on where its center of mass is.
This also affects rotational ability.
So in sum, Inertially speaking, its convient that ship are symetrical. This does not imply an actual symetry.
Also, our brain has the ability to understand this as a fundamental level, visually speaking, and thats why some things do look balanced while others don't. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2174
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 00:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
Morgan North wrote:A gyro works by momentum applied to its rotational disk. Not gravity. Unless its turned off. But then its just a disk inside three rings.
Either way:
The ships in EVE are funky:
1. Due to them being geometrically assymetrical, their Principal Axis of rotation are not aligned to the ship's axis. 2. Due to them being probably also mass-assymetrical, The above is even worsened.
The fact that they rotate the way they do, is of course, because of the EVE's main code does not support the Inertia properties of the volume enclosed by the ship. Or more specifically, the projected area in any given view (Front, Side, Top) in relation to the Center of Mass, or the Geometrical Center of Mass, does not allow for the final Principal Axis to be aligned according to X Y Z.
This fact is ignored, and instead we receive an Inertia modifier that ammount to how hard that ship is to turn. We see it by affecting agility and whatnot.
In reality, should the EVE ships be built the way they are representend, they would more easlly turn into some directions in relation to others.
Now, to this we add the assymetrical displacement of engines.
While it might be true that this arrangement promotes certain orbits, it also promotes certain specific orbits. Or more realitiscally, it promotes that the ship should more easelly turn, around its principal axis (One of them), towards a given side.
If the ships were done assymetrical on purpose, and the engines were placed in such a way that they'd compensate for the Principal Axis's different arragement towards our normal XYZ axis, then the ship could be engineer to turn equally fast in all directions. However, such is a needless engineering undertaking, as it would have just been simpler to make the ship assymetrical than fine tune the engines to have correct mass displacement properties.
This all is unchanged if we assume that the entire ship rotates around its "warp drive". Even if we assume this to be a completly isolated-from-the-ship item, held together by riboons of make believe of fields of super duperness, when the ship would rotate around it, it would still rotate preferencial to the Principal axis, centered now upon the Warp Drive, ie, its "center of mass" so to speak.
So...
I'm not saying everything should be spherical or cylinde-like, but if you want a ship to turn equally fast to the left or right, then it should be symetrical on its vertical plane, or at least inertially-symetrical. An example would be a large engine placed next to a cylinder, with a smaller engine posted farther away, to a given ratio that a bit of research by the reader can uncouver (hint, its related to the quadritic value of the distance). If we think that the ship is then assymetrical on the middle plane, then it means it'll probably have a easier time turning upwards or downwards, depeneding on where its center of mass is.
This also affects rotational ability.
So in sum, Inertially speaking, its convient that ship are symetrical. This does not imply an actual symetry.
Also, our brain has the ability to understand this as a fundamental level, visually speaking, and thats why some things do look balanced while others don't.
I think you're neglecting the sheer brilliance of the Caldari ship designers. One guy designs the right half, the other guy designs the left.
they have never met or talked to each other "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
92
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 01:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I think you're neglecting the sheer brilliance of the Caldari ship designers. One guy designs the right half, the other guy designs the left.
they have never met or talked to each other
Except if you look at the Rokh, you can deduce that the two designers must have passed eachother in the hall once, and maybe gave eachother a long stare. |
Pipa Porto
929
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 01:33:00 -
[84] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:I think you're neglecting the sheer brilliance of the Caldari ship designers. One guy designs the right half, the other guy designs the left.
they have never met or talked to each other
And they call the Minmatar the masters of the Duct Tape. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Renon Graf
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 05:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Some interesting explanations of New Eden propulsion technology. Also interesting, the current speed of the Voyager 1 spacecraft is 17,260 m/s. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
4660
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 05:24:00 -
[86] - Quote
Well, concidering the ships use giant fusion torches for forward movement, I'd say ion thrusters. The reason they are not visible is simple: They are very small.
Another possibility would be gravity projection... not sure if EVE's tech is advanced like that, though. Ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire! |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 10:06:00 -
[87] - Quote
Mr Steinberg wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Gyroscopes. Big gyroscopes. How does gyroscopes work in a vaccum?
Same as any other fast rotating object in space I presume... There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Morgan North
The Wild Bunch Electus Matari
84
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 10:17:00 -
[88] - Quote
Shizuken wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
I think you're neglecting the sheer brilliance of the Caldari ship designers. One guy designs the right half, the other guy designs the left.
they have never met or talked to each other
Except if you look at the Rokh, you can deduce that the two designers must have passed eachother in the hall once, and maybe gave eachother a long stare.
Thats how things are done inthe modern day too. In many cases only the shipyards/final assemblers know what will be assembled, including right and left halfs. Some individuals know parts and bits of it, but in general, the lower ranking workers, responsbile for the machines that produce individual components, are not, or may not be, aware of what it is being used to. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
1
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 10:31:00 -
[89] - Quote
Renon Graf wrote:Some interesting explanations of New Eden propulsion technology. Also interesting, the current speed of the Voyager 1 spacecraft is 17,260 m/s.
Dramiel can go faster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tF1Up_xXSI
and on another note, Voyager doesn't have a warp drive, so no matter how fast it is, we will be faster... If we find something to align to. There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Mr Steinberg
Beta Grid
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 10:52:00 -
[90] - Quote
Just reead that nasa is looking into "warp" drive :D |
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