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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Palovana
Caldari Inner Fire Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.19 05:03:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Herping yourDerp to be fair, apocrypha was a good expansion
+1
Having initially joined during the Empyrean Age days, Apocrypha was the best expansion I've been through. ----- This was getting old so I removed it. |
Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.19 05:16:00 -
[32]
I started playing when Red Moon Rising (and Shiva's Theme) were the opening aspects to this game.
The Revelations video presented just how deadly the universe can be when the opening shot are bodies floating in space.
To me, your imagination guided how you saw the gaming universe. Society as a whole was similar to the society seen in the "Blade Runner" movie - continuous cloudy skies dumping acid rain polluted from years of rampant industry with massive buildings jutting towards the skies while the masses huddled as foundation at the ground level, and below. Amarrians were aloft with their religious order with all beneath their contempt. Caldarians were militarist with a rigid class system of the "haves" to the "haves not". Gallentian were free-willing and open with a potential dark underside. And Minmatarians were angry and warrior-like due to their past history of enslavement.
While not prominent, vices of today had more exposure in the game such as drugs and prostitutes. One of my earliest missions was an agent telling me how she is the drug supplier for many pilots and could use more for her stash.
Yet today's gaming world has changed. Everyone seems similar with no unique traits to make them or their particular race stand out. The vices are all but gone it seems with agents being quite clean cut. The game geared towards adults has shifted to young children and teenagers with warning labels before entering the game. And the worst change in my opinion -
CCP were cutting edge and doing their own thing in their own style. But after watching the alliance tournament, according to the CEO, (paraphrasing) "Since everyone else is going the virtual goods route, we must follow too."
Guess the leader became a follower.
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Judicator Saturnius
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.06.19 05:27:00 -
[33]
Bravo Alcatraz. Good post. I just hope one of these days a quality critique like this won't fall on deaf ears.
vOv
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Richard C Hoagland
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Posted - 2011.06.19 06:02:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Palovana
Originally by: Herping yourDerp to be fair, apocrypha was a good expansion
+1
Having initially joined during the Empyrean Age days, Apocrypha was the best expansion I've been through.
Apocrypha was definitely a patch that felt like an expansion. I'm afraid that a patch where I can walk around a room, and sit on a couch isn't really approaching "expansion" for me.
I'm astonished at how little we're getting, despite this idea of walking in stations having been introduced a number of years back. How many prototypes were built and then tossed out? Surely they didn't spend five or six years working on a single room?
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Cyriel Longinus
Caldari XERCORE
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Posted - 2011.06.19 06:08:00 -
[35]
@ Tres Farmer "expectation management" That's a interesting thought. Is it realistic that an individual or organization would be capable of knowing the "expectations" of all these gamers and then appeasing everyone's vision of what the game should be. What did everyone expect.
Devil's Advocate, maybe. Someone should say a few words to challenge all the fearmonering.
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.06.19 06:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Oregin I really hope that once Incarna is through, that CCP put some effort into seriously improving the space side of the game.
Don't get me wrong. I like the whole immersion stuff but it's not a priority for me. I see them doing all this work on WIS but only managing to remodel one ship for this expansion. At this rate, the rest simply won't get done. Looking at the new tractor beam and salvager turrets, they're brilliant but they make the now old textures look terrible and mis-matched with the new aesthetic (we now how two aesthetics in one game and it's jarring). I'd rather have had the ship models done but that's just me I guess...
Apocrypha was a totally fantastic expansion. Expanding on the exploration side of EVE was a brilliant idea and one which could possibly have a lot more breadth. I'd like to see EVE become mysterious again like in the good old days and bring more life into non-highsec areas. These days, everywhere is pretty much mapped to death. W-Space is great but unless you want to live in that one particular system (a big commitment) then you don't fight for control of it.
What I'd personally (personally) like to see:
1. More space - be it W or K-Space. 2. Low-sec revamp - give people a reason to go there and fight for it. 3. Remove local outside high-sec.
For starters...
Would enjoy this, but hoping for CCP to derp less than they have is probably too far fetched. They're on the money bandwagon these days and the dollar signs in their eyes are not improving their myopia.
I got 99 dollah but the game ain't fun |
Mocam
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Posted - 2011.06.19 08:36:00 -
[37]
Lots of stuff missing that I remember.
IGB changes, suns getting solar flares and the like, huge number of planets (10's of thousands iirc) being changed and their looks updated...
Rockets fixed, my domi FINALLY got turrets and an exhaust, probes added "natively" to the overview settings vs a hack to do it, revamp of loot drops in L4's, addition of a hell of a lot of tutorials for new folks (the "you WILL lose a ship" ones as well as the entire probing line of tutorials - those weren't around when I started)...
Deep safes removed, that new green cross-hair stuff for probing, the recent revamp of all agents and the missions they offer, AB vs MWD icon changes, BPC's vs BPO color changes... lots of little stuff, spread out across my time here.
I don't recall it all and I'm a bit lazy to go look it up in the patch notes but I do remember a hell of a lot of changes that have happened since I joined (September '09) and almost none of the ones that stick in my head are showing on that list.
I do recall some changes I wasn't thrilled about - eve-gate, contacts lists "adjusted", hellacious confusion about neutrals vs no standings when those changes went in with respect to overview settings and the like...
I just don't think that it's really all that great an abbreviated list the way it reads.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:04:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 19/06/2011 10:09:32
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus @ Tres Farmer "expectation management" That's a interesting thought. Is it realistic that an individual or organization would be capable of knowing the "expectations" of all these gamers and then appeasing everyone's vision of what the game should be. What did everyone expect.
Nobody expects that. Well, nobody sane.
Expectation management is not about pleasing everyone and fulfil all of every-bodies special needs. No. Expectation management is a constant struggle to stay in communication with your customer. It's about a constant presence at places, where your next features to be published are exposed to feedback. It's about explaining and commenting on the stuff you do. It's about reading the forums and addressing of concerns and doubts that your customers post.
This means if you put up a Devblog you have to make sure, that the Devs responsible for it's content can attend and moderate the comments-thread that goes with them for more than the first 2 hours.
This means if you put something up for testing on Sisi that you start a stiky-thread that contains information about what is new/changed, why it had been changed, what the intentions of the change are and that you then monitor, maintain and comment in that thread for as long as it either gets no customer feedback any more or you did put up new stuff for testing.
This means, that if you release some information about stuff that will/might/can/should happen in the future, that you monitor the forums and other 3rd party sites for feedback and try to explain/comment on that feedback as soon as possible, so that the nerd-rage is maintained.
Yes, this is hard work. Yes, this is not fun most of the time. Yes, you will still experience the odd backlash and trolling and idiot customer. But this will make your customers happy, as they feel to be recognised by you. This will make your voluntary testers and bughunters happy, when they feel that someone is reading and working with the feedback they gave.
That is excellence. That is expectation management. Excellence doesn't come for free. Excellence isn't given.
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Devil's Advocate, maybe. Someone should say a few words to challenge all the fearmonering.
Nothing against that. And as I see my counter to your girlfriend made you stop this.
Also, we're not fear-mongering.. we just call CCP out on bullsh*t as they asked us to do. We just push them to be the best they can be. We demand from them not less than what they demand from them self: EXCELLENCE - in all aspects.
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Captain Alcatraz Edited by: Captain Alcatraz on 19/06/2011 01:19:34
Cold War, Jun. 2005 - Player outposts - Lvl 4 missions - COSMOS constellations
lvl 4 missiosn came out in november of 2004
so I am sure you are wrong on many things.
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Kalamao
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:25:00 -
[40]
Seems like you skipped alot there buddy,
-Tons of bug fixes that have been presents through all of the earlier expansions -New contract interface -Higher res ship models -Carbon UI -New animated turrets
I'm pretty sure i'm skipping some, just look at the patch notes. It's like a book. MANY changes, you're just hating i guess...
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Nuhm DeAra
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Posted - 2011.06.19 10:33:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Nuhm DeAra on 19/06/2011 10:33:30 Why don't you crying herpa-derps go play WoW? They release the same expansion every few years. The only thing you'll be whining and moaning about is not being able to easily breeze through dungeons or murder every different class with the push of a button.
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Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.06.19 11:09:00 -
[42]
CCP are spacing out their changes, now. Instead of releasing everything at once on the expansion release date, some features are patched in both earlier and later. We got the the new contracts system before Incarna, and will get different racial CQs after Incarna.
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2011.06.19 11:13:00 -
[43]
Nice writeup. When was the NOS nerf/drone bandwith changes?
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Mocam
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Posted - 2011.06.19 11:25:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet CCP are spacing out their changes, now. Instead of releasing everything at once on the expansion release date, some features are patched in both earlier and later. We got the the new contracts system before Incarna, and will get different racial CQs after Incarna.
I think stretching out vs spacing out might be more appropriate.
The one thing about this method fo rolling changes - it does give the game a far less complete feel than before. It never quite seems to feel stable compared to the old expansion/update model.
Before, the updates came out - you went through a little patch time as the "oops" factor settled in, then it was getting familiar with the changes until the next major update.
Now... Rolling changes that just keep coming adding and fixing but also breaking here or there, every week or so, but they are rolling out changes - almost all the time.
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Ma'at Achu
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Posted - 2011.06.19 12:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Oregin
What I'd personally (personally) like to see:
1. More space - be it W or K-Space. 2. Low-sec revamp - give people a reason to go there and fight for it. 3. Remove local outside high-sec.
For starters...
Amen!
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Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.06.19 13:56:00 -
[46]
CCP have changed their release schedule from being once a year, to several a year with major releases being more regular.
They've done this to streamline the introduction of new features, and to allow a greater scope for things to come.
They have also just changed the game engine from shader 2.0 to shader 3.0
They have also just changed the UI render to the new Carbon UI.
They have also just made huge, HUGE inroads into the lag problem.
What does this all mean? It means that, at the moment, CCP are putting in a lot of 'behind the scenes' maintenance into Eve. So no, you're not seeing new features being thrown into your faces constantly.
Let CCP knock through a few walls and put in new doors before you start complaining the carpet is the same as it was in 2009
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.19 14:10:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 19/06/2011 14:11:29
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher CCP have changed their release schedule from being once a year, to several a year with major releases being more regular.
They've done this to streamline the introduction of new features, and to allow a greater scope for things to come.
They have also just changed the game engine from shader 2.0 to shader 3.0
They have also just changed the UI render to the new Carbon UI.
They have also just made huge, HUGE inroads into the lag problem.
What does this all mean? It means that, at the moment, CCP are putting in a lot of 'behind the scenes' maintenance into Eve. So no, you're not seeing new features being thrown into your faces constantly.
Let CCP knock through a few walls and put in new doors before you start complaining the carpet is the same as it was in 2009
All true.. can even find quotes for all that and connect the dots. Problem is: the next expansion will have some nefarious bugs that are still on Sisi (so, they'll be on Tq pretty soon) and there will be some changes to gameplay that have been communicated differently in the past. Both of these points are so far un-addressed. We had this in the past with PI as prime example how CCP handled this.. the stuff goes live 'as is' on Sisi and they'll bugfix this 3 months down the road, until even more people (not just the curious and Sisi-regulars) got upset about them. I'd rather avoid this, as it only leads to thread-noughts and name-calling
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Khira Kitamatsu
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Posted - 2011.06.19 14:20:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kalamao Seems like you skipped alot there buddy,
-Tons of bug fixes that have been presents through all of the earlier expansions -New contract interface -Higher res ship models -Carbon UI -New animated turrets
I'm pretty sure i'm skipping some, just look at the patch notes. It's like a book. MANY changes, you're just hating i guess...
Of course they left all that out, it would make CCP actually look good and we can't have that on these boards. These boards are for the whiners.
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voodoo
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Posted - 2011.06.19 15:00:00 -
[49]
what a great post!
.
. |
Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.06.19 15:40:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 19/06/2011 14:11:29
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher CCP have changed their release schedule from being once a year, to several a year with major releases being more regular.
They've done this to streamline the introduction of new features, and to allow a greater scope for things to come.
They have also just changed the game engine from shader 2.0 to shader 3.0
They have also just changed the UI render to the new Carbon UI.
They have also just made huge, HUGE inroads into the lag problem.
What does this all mean? It means that, at the moment, CCP are putting in a lot of 'behind the scenes' maintenance into Eve. So no, you're not seeing new features being thrown into your faces constantly.
Let CCP knock through a few walls and put in new doors before you start complaining the carpet is the same as it was in 2009
All true.. can even find quotes for all that and connect the dots. Problem is: the next expansion will have some nefarious bugs that are still on Sisi (so, they'll be on Tq pretty soon) and there will be some changes to gameplay that have been communicated differently in the past. Both of these points are so far un-addressed. We had this in the past with PI as prime example how CCP handled this.. the stuff goes live 'as is' on Sisi and they'll bugfix this 3 months down the road, until even more people (not just the curious and Sisi-regulars) got upset about them. I'd rather avoid this, as it only leads to thread-noughts and name-calling
The current Sisi build is working alright for me.. not saying there's nothing wrong, but ironing these things out is a process of testing and feedback. Many bugs don't really show until you get 45,000 players 'testing' it
Although the patch of the patch of the patch thing is comical, in a way, it tends to be the best way of putting out updates in terms of time efficiency. Does a backwards T3 break the game?
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Kunming
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.06.19 16:31:00 -
[51]
So it took 60 developers to change one lightbulb, but now there are 300 of them and they cant change one lightbulb.
If I had enough connections and capital, I would just rival CCP in EVE, take all the good ideas leave all this wow, final fantasy, barbie online etc crap and make a hardcore space game where ur success is determined by your ingame actions only. Basically steal CCPs original idea but this time implement it as its meant to be and profit! I even have a name for it.. "EVEN - The Third Genesis"
Seriously though, someone is gonna do that sooner or later and till then EVE will have lost its originality and turned into a wow-clone in space. I'll tell you why WOW has this many customers; its not cause of the gameplay or MT, its cause non-gamer ppl can enjoy the scenery together with their emo friends (at least thats what I observed from my university days)..
And thats k, if it sells, it sells. But CCP u already have an IP in works thats aimed at Twilight fans, make that F2P with vanity items, where the player base would also care. Why ruin EVE, leave EVE this hardcore game that isnt meant to be for everyone, not because Im some sort of elitist but its uniquely fun because of that, and we loved you because of that, and we hate you because you're ruining it.
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
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Posted - 2011.06.19 16:53:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tres Farmer on 19/06/2011 16:55:22
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher *snip* The current Sisi build is working alright for me.. not saying there's nothing wrong, but ironing these things out is a process of testing and feedback. Many bugs don't really show until you get 45,000 players 'testing' it
Yeah. Problem is you got usability issues and bugs that are known before it goes live and 45tsd can hammer it and make their decision about your fine product. Isn't that what Sisi is for? To iron out the bugs we can find there and get rid of them before they make it to TQ, so that TQ has to deal with unknown bugs only and looks and feels polished?
Also, wouldn't it be wise to communicate why you only do 1 CQ at a time and when/how you're going to do the others? You know, expectation management and all that stuff about excellence?
Originally by: Lady Go Diveher Although the patch of the patch of the patch thing is comical, in a way, it tends to be the best way of putting out updates in terms of time efficiency. Does a backwards T3 break the game?
Not gamebreaking, for sure not. But it transports a message: We don't really care for polish (or excellence).
That upon docking you're facing the CQ entrance is interesting for the first 2-3 times, if you want to see the ship you have to turn your view around 180 deg. Having to sit down on the couch by hand when you log into the game on station is also just interesting for the first 2-3 times. Not being able to double-click your ship as you're used to, for opening the cargo or just dropping another one into the hangar for swapping is gone too, for no apparent reason nor was there any explanation given.
Incarna itself is nice and has lots of potential. But what we'll have to live with for in the meantime will be how we feel and think about the product. And a product that is half finished and lacks polish.. is.. meh
Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody! |
Captain Alcatraz
Invicta. Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.06.20 02:45:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Captain Alcatraz on 20/06/2011 02:44:53
Originally by: Mocam Lots of stuff missing that I remember.
IGB changes, suns getting solar flares and the like, huge number of planets (10's of thousands iirc) being changed and their looks updated...
Rockets fixed, my domi FINALLY got turrets and an exhaust, probes added "natively" to the overview settings vs a hack to do it, revamp of loot drops in L4's, addition of a hell of a lot of tutorials for new folks (the "you WILL lose a ship" ones as well as the entire probing line of tutorials - those weren't around when I started)...
Deep safes removed, that new green cross-hair stuff for probing, the recent revamp of all agents and the missions they offer, AB vs MWD icon changes, BPC's vs BPO color changes... lots of little stuff, spread out across my time here.
I don't recall it all and I'm a bit lazy to go look it up in the patch notes but I do remember a hell of a lot of changes that have happened since I joined (September '09) and almost none of the ones that stick in my head are showing on that list.
I do recall some changes I wasn't thrilled about - eve-gate, contacts lists "adjusted", hellacious confusion about neutrals vs no standings when those changes went in with respect to overview settings and the like...
I just don't think that it's really all that great an abbreviated list the way it reads.
I only put the major changes, the list would be 3 pages long if I put all the minor things like AB vs MWD icons.
CCP did some good stuff for behind the scene performance during the last years, but here we're taking about gameplay improvements
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.20 02:55:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus @ Tres Farmer "expectation management" That's a interesting thought. Is it realistic that an individual or organization would be capable of knowing the "expectations" of all these gamers and then appeasing everyone's vision of what the game should be. What did everyone expect.
Devil's Advocate, maybe. Someone should say a few words to challenge all the fearmonering.
My expectation is that my subscription fees will be spent maintaining the service I subscribe to.
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Violet Vayu
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:00:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Oregin
What I'd personally (personally) like to see:
1. More space - be it W or K-Space. 2. Low-sec revamp - give people a reason to go there and fight for it. 3. Remove local outside high-sec.
For starters...
agreed
They threw out the idea of ice mining becoming a 0.0 only activity during alliance tournament what if ice was only available in low sec?
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HoboWithAShip
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kunming So it took 60 developers to change one lightbulb, but now there are 300 of them and they cant change one lightbulb.
If I had enough connections and capital, I would just rival CCP in EVE, take all the good ideas leave all this wow, final fantasy, barbie online etc crap and make a hardcore space game where ur success is determined by your ingame actions only. Basically steal CCPs original idea but this time implement it as its meant to be and profit! I even have a name for it.. "EVEN - The Third Genesis"
Seriously though, someone is gonna do that sooner or later and till then EVE will have lost its originality and turned into a wow-clone in space. I'll tell you why WOW has this many customers; its not cause of the gameplay or MT, its cause non-gamer ppl can enjoy the scenery together with their emo friends (at least thats what I observed from my university days)..
And thats k, if it sells, it sells. But CCP u already have an IP in works thats aimed at Twilight fans, make that F2P with vanity items, where the player base would also care. Why ruin EVE, leave EVE this hardcore game that isnt meant to be for everyone, not because Im some sort of elitist but its uniquely fun because of that, and we loved you because of that, and we hate you because you're ruining it.
There is so much wrong with this post.
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San Severina
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.20 03:49:00 -
[57]
Unfortunately I have to agree with/ Support this post wholeheartedly.
CCP must think we are idiots, seriously, what other explanation can you come up with for such a blatant & obvious moral & ethical decline in a company in such a short time?
Also, i find it interesting that the slide in quality of EvE Coincides with BIG business like Nvidia & Sony attaching themselves to CCP.
I really do hope I'm wrong about this, I love EvE, despite it's many flaws, this game is/could be great, nobody can deny the fantastic vision & guts CCP showed even attempting something like EvE in the first place. But, I've just been around too long now & seen the writing on the wall too many times before to doubt my gut. I play a few F2P games, I know the model & I know what big business & investors expect from this industry & I believe the focus is not on innovation & originality, integrity but only the bottom line & returns on investment.
When it comes to that we are Doomed.
As I said tho, I'm hoping I'm wrong, I'm definitely not cancelling (yet), I want CCP to show me otherwise!
Good post tho OP. it needs to be said.
Don't take our Hangar view away as an option please CCP! Don't do it!
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.06.20 04:11:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 20/06/2011 04:11:38
Originally by: San Severina CCP must think we are idiots
CCP have had this fact proven to them too many times that they now realise it is the reality.
They cared about their product before they realised the customers were all so easy to fool.
Originally by: San Severina I'm definitely not cancelling (yet), I want CCP to show me otherwise!
See.... Confirmed.
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San Severina
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.20 04:48:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cyriel Longinus Edited by: Cyriel Longinus on 19/06/2011 02:51:42
Let's say your best friend and lover of two years leaves in the morning as red head and comes back to you as a blonde. You really loved her as a red head. She now claims that she likes the blond much more. The chances of her going back to red is not likely.
Do you...
A) Drop her ass. B) Embrace the blonde. C) Get involved by telling her what lingerie matches her new color and point out that her current wardrobe compliments her red. D) Spam the f! about how she fails.
More like she promised to make the relationship work, promised Excellence & even set a timeframe & asked for feedback & promised to be available to respond to that feedback.
Then she went cold, started sleeping with the next door neighbor & had two children with him (named WoD & Dust) & now she is asking you to pay maintenance for those children so they can attend private School while you live in abject poverty, alone and neglected!
This sounds more familiar to me than the hair color analogy.
Just sayin'
Please don't take away the option of Hangar view CCP. Please!
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San Severina
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.06.20 04:51:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 20/06/2011 04:11:38
Originally by: San Severina CCP must think we are idiots
CCP have had this fact proven to them too many times that they now realise it is the reality.
They cared about their product before they realised the customers were all so easy to fool.
Originally by: San Severina I'm definitely not cancelling (yet), I want CCP to show me otherwise!
See.... Confirmed.
point taken, & I fully expect you'll be right on this but, without hope what have we got?
I like everyone else here am a sucker for this game, if it costs me $30 per month for another year to watch it implode then so be it!
You're still here eh!
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