Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
DeBingJos
Minmatar Jukebox Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:19:00 -
[1]
Do not subscribe to this game. Don't let them fool you it is subscription based.
On to of you sub you will soon also have to pay $ for items to stay competitive ingame.
My advice: Look for another game and avoid the disappointment.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:30:00 -
[2]
The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
|
Karia Sur
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:32:00 -
[3]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
He sees into the future like a few of us already have. Call him a troll, call him an idiot, but remember when it happens that you were actually warned.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:35:00 -
[4]
I was warned not to sub to a game because I'd have to pay for something, that I'll never have to pay for because it can all be bought with in-game currency.
Thanks. I will remember how stupid the people who left were.
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Jukebox Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:36:00 -
[5]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
Let me remind you to check Zulu's latest devblog, I'm sure he can explain better than me.
I love the game, I just don't like the direction management is taking it.
Just wait a bit, and you'll say: 'DeBingJos was right, I wish I followed his advice'.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:40:00 -
[6]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 08:40:47
Originally by: DeBingJos
Originally by: VKhaun Vex The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
Let me remind you to check Zulu's latest devblog, I'm sure he can explain better than me.
I love the game, I just don't like the direction management is taking it.
Just wait a bit, and you'll say: 'DeBingJos was right, I wish I followed his advice'.
That link says nothing about anything in the shop to make you better in combat then anyone who doesn't use the shop. Just not as pretty.
Try again. I'm bored at work and a moron like you is just what I need to entertain me.
You thought the rage was right and you took it too far. Now you can't reconsider your extreme position because you've committed, so you'll just dig deeper and deeper until even the people who used to agree with you start laughing.
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Jukebox Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex
That link says nothing about anything in the shop to make you better in combat then anyone who doesn't use the shop. Just not as pretty.
Try again. I'm bored at work and a moron like you is just what I need to entertain me.
You thought the rage was right and you took it too far. Now you can't reconsider your extreme position because you've committed, so you'll just dig deeper and deeper until even the people who used to agree with you start laughing.
Well, did you read the leaked pdf?
Read page 9 the first paragraph: "In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing aptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details."
I bolded the important part.
|
Karia Sur
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 08:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 08:37:01 I was warned not to sub to a game because I'd have to pay for something, that I'll never have to pay for because it can all be bought with in-game currency.I'll remember that you warned me people would be able to buy powerful in game equipment, when they've been able to do that for years by buying plex and selling it to other players, and everyone was fine with it.
Thanks. I will remember how stupid the people who left were.
Fine, you are entitled to your opinion just like i am mine. I also have no intention of getting into a slanging match as there are currently far too many in progress on here. However, you are missing the point.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 09:00:00 -
[9]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 09:02:39
Neither of you have posted an opinion, only assumption.
You assume they will go down that road of adding competetive items. Your first link has nothing about it. Your second link and quote says add items, not 'better' items, not 'exclusive' items. Just 'new'.
And you still haven't even come close to making a real arguement since PLEX can be bought on the market with ISK to get the items for free, and PLEX can already be sold for ISK to buy any item you want at JITA for real life money. And everyone was fine with that two days ago.
You haven't shown to the slightest degree how any of your biased assumptions would change anything at all even if they were true.
I bolded the important parts.
|
Caterpillar
AUS Corporation CORE.
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 09:17:00 -
[10]
Just to put a slightly different perspective on this. I don't really have a problem with people being able to buy "eye-candy" items with RL cash and as you rightly say, the cash->PLEX->items route already exists for any in game items, so I don't really have a problem with RL being used to buy other items. What has moved me to the point of cancelling my subscriptions after over 7, mostly happy, years of Eve, is the shocking confirmation of CCP's view of it's player base.
Whether the rage being expressed by players in the General Forum is justified or not, it does exist and needs to be addressed. To pre-empt any statements about CCP being a business that exists to make a profit, if it has a very unhappy or reducing player base, there is a real danger that those profits will suffer.
Either way, I do have the right to decide how I spend my disposable income and at this moment in time, EVE is looking unlikely to be one of my outgoings.
Fly safe if you choose to stay :)
|
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 09:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Caterpillar Whether the rage being expressed by players in the General Forum is justified or not, it does exist and needs to be addressed. To pre-empt any statements about CCP being a business that exists to make a profit, if it has a very unhappy or reducing player base, there is a real danger that those profits will suffer.
Either way, I do have the right to decide how I spend my disposable income and at this moment in time, EVE is looking unlikely to be one of my outgoings.
Fly safe if you choose to stay :)
You see gentlemen... this is called a valid and well articulated point and it has been executed with grace as a stand-alone post.
This is what EVE forums need. This is what will sway people to your point of view. It's foundation is strong critical thinking and is reinforced by self reflection to understand the place of the speaker among those spoken of.
I sir agree with CCP that the vast majority of player rage is unfounded. Having read so many posts like the above stooges have provided us with I would also just assume let it blow over and continue. I will stay, but I will point out what you have said as the other side of this argument to anyone who asks my opinion.
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Jukebox Warriors
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 09:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 09:02:39 PLEX can already be sold for ISK to buy any item you want at JITA for real life money.
I don't agree with the ingame plex item either. But it is not as bad as items for AUR for the simple reason that the isk you get from a plex is earned by someone ingame and the item you buy with them are manufactured and trade by someone already ingame. Not a single item or isk is spawed for your $.
With items for AUR this will change, invalidating a lot of the professions in eve and breaking the sandbox.
Of course these are my opinions and you are free to have your own. I'm just giving the new guys a headsup over whats to come in the future.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 09:51:00 -
[13]
lol you keep trying to guard yourself with this opinion **** and it's not fooling anyone. Blueprints and skill books have always been standard pricing. Factional gear has always only been available by spending time earning the LP, which translates directly to ISK or Cash however they're paying the sub for that time.
Nothing new.
You don't have to try again though my shift is over. I'm going home and going to bed.
You can have the last word and try to call it opinion again. I don't think you're capable of making an impression on any new player after being shot down here. Thanks though, it's been fun.
|
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 11:49:00 -
[14]
.. and if you still want to play this game DON'T GO MINING!
|
Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 14:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Fearless article, page 9, 1st paragraph
"In short, itÆs the same in Incarna as elsewhere: we give players the means to buy stuff in addition to their base subscription, offering things like new ônano-paintsö that allow one to customize ships while docked; new articles of virtual clothing, tattoos, and other avatar customizations; tokens for customizing aptainÆs Quarters and so on. Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization: some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright. The devil, as always, is in the details."
(DeBing bolded the important part.)
Do keep in mind that the purpose of Fearless is provocative speculation.
It would, though, be extremely nice if CCP re-confirmed their vow to never release anything with game-mechanical effect that can only be purchsed with Aurum but not with ISK.
Do keep in mind that probably any item that can be bought for Aurum can be re-sold for ISK, and that situation is nothing new. If I'm poor on ISK but have some real world $, I can buy a time code, convert it to PLEX, sell it to the market for ISK, and use those ISK to buy e.g. a faction ship. That's not new. That's how EVE has been for years and years. The new would be something that was Aurum-only and not re-sellable on the ISK market, such as buying standing for Aurum - as opposed to buying standing tokens for Aurum that can then be given to an NPC corp or faction in exchange for a standing gain, since those tokens would be physical and thus re-sellable for ISK.
-- Salpad |
Ziaxi
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 15:59:00 -
[16]
Keep this crap out of the newbie forum. They are perfectly capable of reading and making up their own minds.
|
da go
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:31:00 -
[17]
Originally by: DeBingJos On to of you sub you will soon also have to pay $ for items to stay competitive ingame.
Total bull****. Do not make unsubstantiated claims. Link to an item that is only available for real money and gives you a competitive advantage or STFU. --- I don't know! I don't know why I did it, I don't know why I enjoyed it, and I don't know why I'll do it again! Bart Simpson. |
Karia Sur
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 16:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: da go
Originally by: DeBingJos On to of you sub you will soon also have to pay $ for items to stay competitive ingame.
Total bull****. Do not make unsubstantiated claims. Link to an item that is only available for real money and gives you a competitive advantage or STFU.
Pay2Win is on its way.
|
Miyamoto Yamamoto
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 17:14:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Miyamoto Yamamoto on 25/06/2011 17:16:54
Originally by: VKhaun Vex The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
this a quote of John Turbefield from the leaked pdf ..
" Virtual goods sales can be positive in certain circumstances. However,when you introduce something that can create an imbalance where others canÆt compete with their spending power, you inevitably decrease their satisfaction with your product. As such it is essential that a game is designed from the ground up to incorporate any major virtual goods sales that fall outside of this. PLEX (and time codes before that) work extremely well as they not only largely replace a black market for ISK, but provide substantial benefits to other players in the form of offering additional subscription options. The negatives caused from the ISK for real money trade such as hacking and botting are reduced as their profitability declines. PLEX differs from typical virtual goods sales because we allow players to pay their subscriptions this way using in-game currency. To me, virtual goods sales are far less appealing when the gameplay is affected and they arenÆt replacing a black market. When weÆre adding additional things into the game that enable users to gain an advantage over other people for real money in a way they simply wouldnÆt be able to if we hadnÆt done so, then it becomes an issue. I feel that if people have already paid a subscription fee then unless there is a good reason for the overall community to introduce a gameplay-affecting virtual goods sales (such as with PLEX), then gaining an in-game advantage isnÆt justifiable. More revenue is of course an aim, but making our customers feel like they are being ædouble billedÆ to be able to play on the same level as others is just a step too far. The most visible example of another game introducing virtual goods sales is certainly LOTRO. It is worth pointing out though that they made almost everything microtransaction based and at the same time removed subscription fees. Because other games with very different communities and very different gameplay styles are able to do something it doesnÆt mean we can do the same thing with the same levels of success. EVE is a far more complex game with significantly more social interaction, which changes a great deal about how you can approach virtual goods sales. While itÆs true that others, such as Blizzard have gone down the microtransaction path, they have not implemented any gameplay affecting items. They also do not offer a microtransaction to gold conversion as we do with PLEX. I donÆt oppose the concept of virtual goods in the case of vanity items, merely in cases where the monetization of items impacts the balance of the game.
|
Tea Ester Elliot
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex The shop has nothing in it related to being competitive, and you don't have to pay money to get things from the shop even if there was since PLEX are converted to the currency just like they are to subscriptions already.
Bad troll or bad critical thinking.
GTFO either way.
This is the new wave of customer. Too stupid to understand that he's getting ****ed.
CCP is banking on it.
|
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:42:00 -
[21]
Waking up and seeing this thread of new players not fooled makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 20:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 20:50:04
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot This is the new wave of customer. Too stupid to understand that he's getting ****ed.
CCP is banking on it.
And you're smart enough to 'know' that game balance is going to change because there's a third currency? Lets say they put in an awesome new ship as a BPO buyable from NPC's like many are now. Now lets say they put it in as Aurum instead. Where's the difference? There isn't any. You get Aurum for PLEX which you get for ISK. ZERO DIFFERENCE.
Same currency after conversion. Same ship after it undocks. Same exact situation of farming time vs buying plex you have had since forever.
Don't worry new players. This is the old wave of community who are on their way out.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, genius.
|
Atsair Raholan
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 22:39:00 -
[23]
Subscribed a couple of days ago and have been having a fantastic time since (little disappointed it took me so long to discover EVE, to be honest). I had browsed these forums and read about the massive upset over the whole micro-transaction thing prior to purchase, and I'm glad I didn't let it deter me from continuing on.
I think it's unfortunate that so many are upset, but as a new player I'm not really in any position to question it.
|
Tea Ester Elliot
|
Posted - 2011.06.25 23:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 25/06/2011 20:56:57
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot This is the new wave of customer. Too stupid to understand that he's getting ****ed.
CCP is banking on it.
And you're smart enough to 'know' that game balance is going to change because there's a third currency? Lets say they put in an awesome new ship as a BPO buyable from NPC's like many are now. Now lets say they put it in as Aurum instead. Where's the difference? There isn't any. You get Aurum for PLEX which you get for ISK. ZERO DIFFERENCE. They could put in the ship where you can only buy it by trading in two plex. Doesn't matter.
Same currency after conversion. Same situation of farming vs buying plex. Same ship after it undocks. Same global availability, nothing exclusive.
Don't worry new players. This is the old wave of community who are on their way out.
I take it you:
a. Didn't follow recent developments in the devblog b. Didn't read any of the leaked (confirmed legit) material c. Don't have a clue how the player economy works d. All of the above
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 02:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 26/06/2011 02:35:54
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot I take it you:
a. Didn't follow recent developments in the devblog b. Didn't read any of the leaked (confirmed legit) material c. Don't have a clue how the player economy works d. All of the above
It's too bad that looks so good to say, but you can't actually articulate any of it for yourself since you haven't thought it through. If you had, you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself here.
One guy has already tried in this thread and been shot down completely, since they don't say what they would have to in order for you to be even close to correct.
You got mad. You comitted too hard to the hype without thinking it through. Now you just see what you want to see in any link someone throws out so you don't have to reconsider your position.
The player economy can't change if nothing is changed. You haven't shown how anything is changed by Aurum at all, since PLEX/ISK already mixes real life money and has for years.
Market prices changing because new items are valuable would happen with any content being added, regardless of what currency it's listed under because all currencies are interchangeable allowing you to buy it with whatever you want through conversion of ISK->PLEX->AUR->ISK->PLEX. Adding the item for Aur, regardless of what it is, doesn't hurt anything any more then adding for ISK.
---- Obvious Disclaimer... an item that's bad for balance would clearly cause a balance issue. We're talking markets not game design. I can't help if CCP puts out an OP new ship or never helps hybrid turrets. :P
|
Tea Ester Elliot
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: VKhaun Vex Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 26/06/2011 02:35:54
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot I take it you:
a. Didn't follow recent developments in the devblog b. Didn't read any of the leaked (confirmed legit) material c. Don't have a clue how the player economy works d. All of the above
It's too bad that looks so good to say, but you can't actually articulate any of it for yourself since you haven't thought it through. If you had, you wouldn't be making a fool of yourself here.
One guy has already tried in this thread and been shot down completely, since they don't say what they would have to in order for you to be even close to correct.
You got mad. You comitted too hard to the hype without thinking it through. Now you just see what you want to see in any link someone throws out so you don't have to reconsider your position.
The player economy can't change if nothing is changed. You haven't shown how anything is changed by Aurum at all, since PLEX/ISK already mixes real life money and has for years.
Market prices changing because new items are valuable would happen with any content being added, regardless of what currency it's listed under because all currencies are interchangeable allowing you to buy it with whatever you want through conversion of ISK->PLEX->AUR->ISK->PLEX. Adding the item for Aur, regardless of what it is, doesn't hurt anything any more then adding for ISK.
---- Obvious Disclaimer... an item that's bad for balance would clearly cause a balance issue. We're talking markets not game design. I can't help if CCP puts out an OP new ship or never helps hybrid turrets. :P
Plex -> Isk requires a player to be involved on both ends and when that player spends his isk on a ship, he bought that ship from another player who built it, on a market run by players.
Plex -> Aur requires one player to buy direct from CCP, bypassing the player producers as well as the player run market. Unless that player turns around and sells whatever he bought on the NeX, he has completely bypassed the economy that has built EVE. There is nothing to 'hype' at all, in-fact this is a very simple concept. Even if you PLEX for isk and buy a character, you exchanged gametime for isk (two players) then you exchanged isk with a player for a character that he trained. Once again, fully player-driven. PLEX does not make things out of thin-air, AUR does.
Unless the NeX is changed to be more like an LP store and is restricted to vanity/blueprints with material costs requiring production, and by all accounts that is not the case, it is a fundamental problem for the economy.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:35:00 -
[27]
Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 26/06/2011 03:45:40 Edited by: VKhaun Vex on 26/06/2011 03:42:28
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Plex -> Isk requires a player to be involved on both ends and when that player spends his isk on a ship, he bought that ship from another player who built it, on a market run by players.
This is true but has no consequence for the argument. The grass is green. The sky is also blue.
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Plex -> Aur requires one player to buy direct from CCP, bypassing the player producers as well as the player run market. Unless that player turns around and sells whatever he bought on the NeX, he has completely bypassed the economy that has built EVE. There is nothing to 'hype' at all, in-fact this is a very simple concept. Even if you PLEX for isk and buy a character, you exchanged gametime for isk (two players) then you exchanged isk with a player for a character that he trained. Once again, fully player-driven. PLEX does not make things out of thin-air, AUR does.
Nonsense.
1) This is the entire point of Aur. You can't trade money or ISK for Aurum, you have to trade plex for it. The plex could be bought with ISK, or with real money. Your undefined phantom problem is based on the assumption that a player must pay cash to CCP for Aurum and this is clearly false.
2) There are already items in the game (Blueprints) which do not require the market and can make things 'out of thin air' (materials from asteroids and item reprocessing). It is clear that players prefer to trade then do/buy everything themselves. That's why we have a market to begin with, and Aurum will not change that. Anyone who doesn't want to pay real money can buy plex with ISk to trade directly, or buy Aur items that are being resold.
3) BECAUSE Aur items can be resold the market has a check and balance built in. If you sold it for more ISK then it was worth in PLEX, people wouldn't buy it. They'd buy PLEX with their ISK and then use Aur to get it instead of buying the resale.
You can't inflate a set price, you can only charge for convenience. This is already done in EVE with plenty of items. You can buy lots of NPC available skill books and blueprints at JITA for transport markup and the market remains intact.
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
Unless the NeX is changed to be more like an LP store and is restricted to vanity/blueprints with material costs requiring production, and by all accounts that is not the case, it is a fundamental problem for the economy.
You haven't shown how it's a problem, or even stated what problem it actually causes.
You're MILES away from ever talking about a specific consequence, much less assuming it is a negative one. How you justify coming to the new player forum and trying to advise people on it is beyond me.
|
Tea Ester Elliot
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 03:47:00 -
[28]
The plex CAN be bought with isk, but it can ALSO be bought with cash money.
$ -> PLEX -> AUR -> ITEM
At no point does that produce an ounce of input to the PLAYER economy unless it is then sold, which is not necessary or in many cases sane given the conversion rate in reverse.
You're assuming the best case scenario. I'm showing you every possible scenario. The consequences are obvious: Player markets will have new competition from direct cash - plex - aur purchasing. This should not happen, ever.
|
VKhaun Vex
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 04:22:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tea Ester Elliot
You're assuming the best case scenario. I'm showing you every possible scenario. The consequences are obvious: Player markets will have new competition from direct cash - plex - aur purchasing. This should not happen, ever.
lol you replaced a complicated set of options with a straight line and called it 'every scenario'. WTF? Try this: ISK/$->PLEX->AUR->ISK->PLEX->ISK/AUR
You say they're obvious but you still haven't stated a consequence... 'new competetition from cash-plex-aur' is drivel. Competition with what? The buyer does not know and cannot discriminate by source. PLEX cost in ISK would regulate Aur item costs automatically. If you sold high people would just buy the plex for ISK instead of the item for ISK.
Now watch, I'll show you how to make a statement.
We can already spend $ for items and sell them on the market. They're called PLEX. PLEX I'll remind you is a consumable in-game item, not a currency. People making ISK for real $ is intentional and has not hurt the market.
Aur items are a continuation of this well established aspect of the market -not a change / addition / perversion- and that aspect is beneficial.
It is beneficial because it encourages people who don't want to pay $ to go get ISK from the game world not related to players (Missions, bounties), and spend it. That is GOOD for an economy.
Bringing money (ISK) in from outside the system is the DEFINITION of 'good for the economy'. More items like PLEX would further encourage that.
|
Allyria Kylari
|
Posted - 2011.06.26 07:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: DeBingJos Do not subscribe to this game. Don't let them fool you it is subscription based.
On to of you sub you will soon also have to pay $ for items to stay competitive ingame.
My advice: Look for another game and avoid the disappointment.
Truer words were never spake.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |