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Maa Ku
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:33:00 -
[481]
Quote: Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View" Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ. Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning". Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP. Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button.
I really hope they do this. Biggest issue in my book.
Quote: Issue 2: NeX Prices Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can access this new content. MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions. Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's. Players feel they are being leached. Additional new currancy Affect on PLEX prices Bypassed the CSM. Community Request: Divide all the prices by at least 10. They will still be expensive and "Exclusive" but more accessible and less laughable.
No - The monocle is fine if it's a status symbol so long as they introduce cheap items. Geez, they need some loss-leaders in there at least!
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Belid Hagen
Resilience. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:36:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Ms Freak
Originally by: Franz Sigel We have a pen&paper RPG in Germany, +The Dark Eye½ (Das Schwarze Auge), which works as a mutual maintenance/caretaking of community-by-company and company-by-community in a way similar to Eve. The simulated world, compared to other Fantasy RPG's, displays (imho) an unrivalled richness which is due to the engagement and the contributions of the community, while the company (whose body corporate has changed over times while the core team has been more or less persisting) keeps a close contact to the community. And there's a similar tier of CSM as with Eve/CCP, which is channeling that communication.
Now Eurogamer has made an important point:
+The option to assume a Gordon Gecko mentality and capitalise further on EVE Online only exists because of the players. The sandbox that led to the stories that enthrall even non-players doesn't belong to CCP - it belongs to the community.½
This has already been pointed out in multiple posts of the Eve Community, but I feel compelled to pointedly add my own angle of view:
The whole thing boils down, as in the real world, to a question of good and legitimate government - Eve (and +The Dark Eye½ alike), as a mutual product of Company and Community, has been and could still be a model case of how Capitalism, while being about money, nevertheless builds upon information (Hayek's POV: markets are about processing information, primarily, and money is only a means to that). Undock from the flow of community information - and your business gets over the heads of the People, loses its contact to Reality, and finally produces its own legitimation crisis.
There used to be a lot of talk once (at least in Europe) about what +economic democracy½ could mean - here we have a practical working example: a Company that functions as the corporated heart of a Community to realize the visions of that community - which are, ideally, at least compatible with the visions of the Company's staff. Subscription fees are the taxes payed by the Community to keep its Government up and running - while they duly expect that this Government be Good and Legitimate and hence take care of the needs and aspirations of its People.
So, finally, the idea of legitimate government is not a metaphor her, it's the real thing - thus we may adopt the slogan that led to the Boston Tea Party of 1773: +No taxation without representation!½. For Eve is not only a game (and a virtual economy), but an example of real world economy as well, to which the Community is dedicating not only their money, but their irretrievable lifetime, too! So please, CCP, don't f**k with our lifetime - at least not with mine!
Quite possibly one of the most insightful/thought provoking things i've ever read on this forum! Nicely said.
so.... we should start buying up CCP stock as a community?
I'm in.
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Suboran
Gallente Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:37:00 -
[483]
Very good post
Also remember that people play eve to find some escapism from the real world, when you introduce a system that involves paying large sums of real money for an item and make it so obvious that its happening, it kills the immersion factor.
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:37:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Maa Ku
Quote: Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View" Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ. Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning". Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP. Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button.
I really hope they do this. Biggest issue in my book.
Quote: Issue 2: NeX Prices Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can access this new content. MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions. Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's. Players feel they are being leached. Additional new currancy Affect on PLEX prices Bypassed the CSM. Community Request: Divide all the prices by at least 10. They will still be expensive and "Exclusive" but more accessible and less laughable.
No - The monocle is fine if it's a status symbol so long as they introduce cheap items. Geez, they need some loss-leaders in there at least!
There has indeed been more acceptance of the super expensive monocole (sp?) since i originally wrote this post so it's entirely probable i should update it again.
I'll refresh everything this evening once i get home from work.
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:40:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Belid Hagen
*snip*
so.... we should start buying up CCP stock as a community?
I'm in.
I'm not sure that's exactly what he was getting at. More along the lines of working together to be better and that there are exmaples of this actually working
That said, Yes i will be buying stock
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:45:00 -
[486]
I don't have a problem with $80 monocles being available to whoever so wants. I am simply disappointed there are no $0.50 monocles.
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.06.28 10:45:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Maa Ku
Quote: Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View" Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ. Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning". Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP. Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button.
I really hope they do this. Biggest issue in my book.
Quote: Issue 2: NeX Prices Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can access this new content. MicroTransactions not MegaTransactions. Makes EvE the laughing stock of MMO's. Players feel they are being leached. Additional new currancy Affect on PLEX prices Bypassed the CSM. Community Request: Divide all the prices by at least 10. They will still be expensive and "Exclusive" but more accessible and less laughable.
No - The monocle is fine if it's a status symbol so long as they introduce cheap items. Geez, they need some loss-leaders in there at least!
I quite agree that giving us the hanger view with button for accessing CQ is the most important issue....
CCP keeps talking about wanting clothing stores on the promenade inside stations that are player run, Those of us on SiSi when this was being tested believed that the idea was that clothes would be in the 1~5 AUR range, and that 1~2 plex would stock out a shop so people could go in and buy the stuff in it for isk....
That will never happen with clothes that cost in the order of 1 plex each.
stocking out a store changes from $15~$30 to $1500~$3000.... which is ludicrous.
A far better option (assuming you consider any MT to be acceptable) that takes the player market into account, is for the NEX to sell clothing BPO's or BPC's for clothing/items. These clothes could then be manufactured by players in bulk amounts using PI materials. The BP's if long enough run (or BPO's) might justify the higher price tag, as they produce thousands of items of clothing. (you might also have the odd, super vanity item, like the blasted monocle, that are only available through the NEX)
This scheme is what the NEX would look like if it truly belonged in eve, player driven manufacturing, not making stuff appear from nowhere with a magic fairy button. --------
By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig.
Support Optional CQ
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Handsom Dan
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:09:00 -
[488]
First, you can shut CQ off... for now.
Second, can someone explain the video card overheating bit? I've talked to few folks who are complaining that the cards are hitting 90c...and? That's well with in operating temp and probably still not running the cooling fan at 100%. I think this needs to be quantified as, I'd suspect many people complaining about over heating, don't understand what that means.
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Xyyreen
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:13:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Ms Freak
-------------------------- Forenote -------------------------- Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View" Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ. Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning". Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP. Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button. --------------------------------------------------------------
+1kk Hands down biggest Incarna issue.
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Tygr Wolf
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:27:00 -
[490]
Ms Freak, well done.
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Ivana Twinkle
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:34:00 -
[491]
Ignore The Mittani/csm every day.
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Ulair Memmet
ORIGIN SYSTEMS
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:41:00 -
[492]
The OP pretty much sums up the issues i have with the incarna patch.
IMO the best solution to the CQ would be to still have the "ship spinning" hangar and a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG icon "Enter Captain's Quarters". And add the option to go "directly" to the CQ. That would make everyone happy even if the option is checked by default. Right now there just is no reason to go into CQ for us. But i'm sure later there will be when more content for it comes out. CCP won't need to force us using it
About the NeX prices: Divide them all by ten sounds good. No clothing item should be more than 5$. Though I'd still have no problem with the monocle being 70$ ^^ Hell why not...
I personally WANT to buy clothes for my character, but the high prices are unakzeptable. Make them cheap and i'll happily buy them. Make them cheaper and you could even make them destructible (as long as i can take them off before going into a suicide-fight )
And PROMISE not to EVER sell items that have ANY game-changing effects! Keep it with looks & style. --------------------------------------------------
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:44:00 -
[493]
Originally by: Handsom Dan First, you can shut CQ off... for now.
Second, can someone explain the video card overheating bit? I've talked to few folks who are complaining that the cards are hitting 90c...and? That's well with in operating temp and probably still not running the cooling fan at 100%. I think this needs to be quantified as, I'd suspect many people complaining about over heating, don't understand what that means.
The "Overheating" issue is fairly complex, in a vein (and possibly wrong) attempt to summarise it:
Some video cards can operate high temperatures, they do however tend to produce extremely strange results when running at those temperatues and those that are on the budget end of the scale tend to have ineffecient cooling solutions (they are cheaper after all). When computers over heat they generate errors which leads to graphics tearing, broken textures, slow-down, visual issues etc etc.
Most computers and components cannot operate at that sort of temperate and when they do they increase the ambient temp. inside the PC. This in turn leads to other components getting hot, and you get a cascade effect.
The primary cause for software overheating hardware is down to the use of excessive/extreme processing. When a computer runs a game/program most of the time the CPU and GPU are actually doing not allot (they are waiting for the other one to respond, or RAM, or hard disk, or for the monitor to catch-up etc, etc). This means they aren't consuming power which means they aren't generating heat. When something is using processing power all the time it generates more heat than normal, then we get into a cycle of using warm to air to cool something which makes the air hotter... rinse, repeat.
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Franz Sigel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 12:48:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Ms Freak Quite possibly one of the most insightful/thought provoking things i've ever read on this forum! Nicely said.
Thx, I'm just trying to raise my voice for the cause!
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Franz Sigel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:01:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Ms Freak
Originally by: Belid Hagen
*snip*
so.... we should start buying up CCP stock as a community?
I'm in.
I'm not sure that's exactly what he was getting at. More along the lines of working together to be better and that there are exmaples of this actually working
That said, Yes i will be buying stock
Yes, I meant this in the latter way - but now, I too feel comfortable with the idea of buying stock! If this gets real, I may really opt in!
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Franz Sigel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:07:00 -
[496]
Edited by: Franz Sigel on 28/06/2011 13:07:51
Originally by: Xyyreen
Originally by: Ms Freak
-------------------------- Forenote -------------------------- Issue 1: Removal of the "Hanger View" Why all the "Rage"?: Not everyone can run or wants to run CQ. Many were/are extremely happy with the old Hanger view and "Ship spinning". Most requested feature of CQ testing, ignored by CCP. Community Request: Return the hanger view and have an "Exit to CQ/WiS" button. --------------------------------------------------------------
+1kk Hands down biggest Incarna issue.
I've always been understanding CQ as an equivalent to Lotro housing - as a way to make oneself comfortable within EvE at a cozy place when the battling is done. I would also appreciate if this would be, as planned, extended to new branches of player economy (shops within stations), as far as this will be balanced into the gaming experience (dont't want no Second Life unrelated to EvE's player culture). But as CQ currently is nothing more than a redundant user interface with the charm of a broom closet, I can happily dispense with it until more useful station modelling is added.
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DragonHelm III
Solaris Project Border World Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:14:00 -
[497]
Nice to see a well contructed reponse to the community issues instead of rage posts.
CCP management should read this thread a few dozen times then when they think they understand read it a dozen more times and get their answers ready for the forthcomming CSM meeting.
Company survival may rest on the outcome of that meeting. Which should be made public ASAP
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Kei Yuma
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:23:00 -
[498]
very good post btw
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LottoFreek
Freeky Lottos
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:24:00 -
[499]
Sticky plz... Join my in game mailing list - Freeky Lottos |
DiggerSOSS
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:44:00 -
[500]
+1
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Professor Shinn
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:27:00 -
[501]
+1 * 9 accounts
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MinerGod
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:18:00 -
[502]
+1
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:37:00 -
[503]
praznimrak love this post....CCp watch this way
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karmaaa
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:38:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Ms Freak Edited by: Ms Freak on 25/06/2011 14:26:36 -------------------------- Forenote -------------------------- @CCP: I LOVE your AMAZING game and so i have created this thread to give you the raw concise issues to they may be address. Each one needs addressing somehow and you should know that keeping to CCP Pann's "calling spades 'spades'" would be a wise choice. If you mean "No", say it to avoid further confusion.
@Community: I am not attempting to become a "mediator" I simply wish to ensure that CCP are given a clear and concise list of the issues we have at present that are at the root of the current anger.
@All: I will be as un-bias as i possibly can be towards any of the issues and will keep this post (and the next one) as up to date as possible. The issues listed below are in no particular order and no one issue is given any more or less importance than any other to ensure that each one can be addressed. If i have missed something please post to let me know and i will update this post. If you are in agreement with any of the points please post it's number so that CCP can see the "priorities". Keep discussion CONSTRUCTIVE. --------------------------------------------------------------
+1 / would like to see a mention of mmo killer Sony in there as well.
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Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:44:00 -
[505]
i must admit i was stunned that if you dont like this optional captains quaters (and remember this is a spaceship game, watching tv in the CQ is optional and should always be optional) the view you get is to be shown the door, literally i mean ARE THERE NO PR PEOPLE OVER THERE? i know they employ brits and americans so its not a cultural reference thing but i mean seriously!? if this is an accident its the dumbest move ever, if deliberate its actual literal contempt to the face Me? im just sitting here,
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karmaaa
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:51:00 -
[506]
Edited by: karmaaa on 28/06/2011 16:52:55
Originally by: Takashi Halamoto i must admit i was stunned that if you dont like this optional captains quaters (and remember this is a spaceship game, watching tv in the CQ is optional and should always be optional) the view you get is to be shown the door, literally i mean ARE THERE NO PR PEOPLE OVER THERE? i know they employ brits and americans so its not a cultural reference thing but i mean seriously!? if this is an accident its the dumbest move ever, if deliberate its actual literal contempt to the face
Tbh, the amount of stupidity inside a gaming company can be astounding, I have personally worked for two so far, Blizzard Entertainment and IO interactive. The ego and lack of respect of clients can be astounding at times, not to mention the treatment of lower level employees.
/Karm
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Ms Freak
Amarr Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:55:00 -
[507]
Originally by: karmaaa Edited by: karmaaa on 28/06/2011 16:52:55
Originally by: Takashi Halamoto i must admit i was stunned that if you dont like this optional captains quaters (and remember this is a spaceship game, watching tv in the CQ is optional and should always be optional) the view you get is to be shown the door, literally i mean ARE THERE NO PR PEOPLE OVER THERE? i know they employ brits and americans so its not a cultural reference thing but i mean seriously!? if this is an accident its the dumbest move ever, if deliberate its actual literal contempt to the face
Tbh, the amount of stupidity inside a gaming company can be astounding, I have personally worked for two so far, Blizzard Entertainment and IO interactive. The ego and lack of respect of clients can be astounding at times, not to mention the treatment of lower level employees.
/Karm
I personally i think someone at CCP thought it would be funny and people would see the funny side of it.
They well might of, had the rest been ok!
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Mantreh
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:01:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Jimmy De'Souza
Originally by: Noran Ferah In all seriousness, why bother with all this feigned outrage? I can go buy myself a titan pilot (and a titan) for RM right now, and nobody cares. That is using RM for an in-game advantage. Why is there no outrage against that? To not rail and howl against the CCP supported ability to buy characters and isk for cash, this is all a logical fallacy.
For the hundred millionth time.
That titan was made in game by players with mined resources. Not conjured by an ingame shop.
For the hundred millionth time, that titan was made ingame by players with botted resources. More or less conjured by a complete lack of effort in an attempt to gouge another player out of their ISK ... often used to make more RMT possible. And thus the circle of players abusing players worse than CCP ever could continues.
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Mithrasith
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:02:00 -
[509]
Man I cant believe this isnt bothering anyone else
-Being called a "Golden Goose". To this I have to say F*CK YOU, you A*SHAT! Oh and btw -4 subscriptions, permanently. Im not a f'ing goose, Im a person, and someone who WAS invested in your game. I dont like being referred to as "the sucker" or your "sugar daddy", or your perpetual egg layer that you get to cash in on - you twit
-That I as a player am funding OTHER GAMES, resources that SHOULD be spent on FIXING primary Bugs, issues and balance content in EVE that has been outstanding for a VERY LONG TIME. In addition, I dont like the fact that it is very clear to me now that what I suspected to be occuring was occuring - namely that you were adding shiney new content to attract subs so that you could fund the development of OTHER games, rather than fixing issues in your primary game
-The following comment from Zulu "I hope Iæve addressed your concerns and cleared up a lot of the issues youære having. Weæll continue monitoring the forums and other communications channels and pick up and reply if there are concerns not covered by this blog. - They arent my issues dip sh*t they are YOUR F*CKING ISSUES. Someone seriously needs to demote Zulu back to a grunt coding position or something, this isnt the first time he has stepped on the player base and said something stupid.
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Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:02:00 -
[510]
true enough ms Freak, but i always remember the first rule of the netz, (one ive fallen foul of) unless talking to a person face to face, the 'emotional content' gets lost and what i write as a sardonic tongue in cheek friendly joke may come across in plain text to bob smith as a vile insult and plain hurtful, without the other person to go by we use our own outlook, personality and feelings to fill in the blanks, and in any large enough group of people a bunch would take the showing the door joke the wrong way, its human nature, those would scream HOW DARE THEY!!!!! OMG!!!!! and then because when you tell someone hey did you spot the mini deathstar in the apocrypha background people will look for it and see it even if its not there because their mind tries to fulfil its own expectations, thus it becomes a self sustaining phenomena as people who didnt see the bad side suddenly do,
thats why you have to be damn careful what you do and how you do it, if it was a joke they should have explained it right away to do the whole 'get it eh lolz' bit to make people see it as funny, but with everything else going on in incarna alot of people were predisposed to see it as the insult, i didnt see it as an insult, then someone mentioned hey they are showing us the door, then i just facepalmd at the sheer dumbass of doing it Me? im just sitting here,
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