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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 13:44:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Akita T Dodge out of what ?
Dodging out of responsibility for what you write.
If you just keep writing nonsense without taking responsibility over what you write then no one will take you serious. I do understand what you want, it is just that you need to realize it for yourself first or there will not be a gain. You want people to take your arguments serious, right? Then you need to stop dodging other people's arguments.
So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them? --
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:27:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 14:38:07
Again, dodge out of what ? Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (this being the THIRD time you attempt to make it look like I hadn't) ?
Originally by: Whitehound So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them?
Why would I want to be able to buy them ? Because I have too much ISK and nothing else interesting to do with it at the moment, while in RL I could stand to make some upgrades to my spending habits. Why would I not want to be able to buy them ? Because it would seriously frak up CCP's bottom line if it would be possible, and I don't want that to happen.
Maybe you actually wanted to ask me "Would you buy real items for ISK if given the chance, yes or no?" In case CCP would be suicidal enough to actually allow us to do that with absolutely no repercussions while being completely up-front with what we are doing (basically, legalizing RMT cash-outs), yes, I totally would buy some. In case CCP keeps its current stance and such a transaction would be punishable as usual, I would under no circumstances even try.
Yes, this totally DOES mean I am putting MY personal financial interest both above that of the rest of the community and above CCP's, but CCP's financial interest above that of the community. It's only natural to do so. Got any more bright ideas or trick questions or desperate out-of-context quoting ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 14:48:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 14:55:41
Originally by: Akita T Again, dodge out of what ?
Do not ask me to repeat it. Read it again if you must.
Quote: Out of a hypothetical sarcastic question I answered in the very next sentence (this being the THIRD time you attempt to make it look like I hadn't) ?
You are asking me? I think you and I know that you did not answer it.
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Whitehound So, why would you want to buy real items for ISKs? Or why would you not want to buy them?
Why would I want to be able to buy them ?
It is not about you. Use your logic as you always do and explain why it is good or bad.
I give you an example. CCP could sell rights to Apple to open an AppleStore at Jita. Players could buy things at the Jita AppleStore with Aurum after they have converted it from PLEX and ISKs. In a next step could CCP just forward the bill and take it right of your credit card since they already got this information (should you be a subscriber who pays by card). There will be players who would actually like to have such a shop in each space station. There could be Microsoft, Gucci, BMW, you name it. So, there we have demand and offer, a new idea, and it can be combined with PLEX/Aurum. Now, please, explain why this is good or bad. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:09:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 15:14:18
Originally by: Whitehound It is not about you. Use your logic as you always do and explain why it is good or bad.
I just have. Do you have a vision problem ? Or is your computer eating away text before you can read it ?
Quote: I give you an example. CCP could sell rights to Apple to open an AppleStore at Jita. Players could buy things at the Jita AppleStore with Aurum after they have converted it to PLEX. In a next step could CCP just forward the bill and take it right of your credit card since they already got this information (should you be a subscriber who pays by card). There will be players who would actually like to have such a shop in each space station. There could be Microsoft, Gucci, BMW, you name it. So, there we have demand and offer, a new idea, and it can be combined with PLEX/Aurum. So, please, explain why this is good or bad.
First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible. That alone would be reason enough to discount it completely. But let's say (just for the sake of argument) that they could find some such partnerships in which they could integrate a new sub-line of products fashioned to be "non-Incarna-immersion-breaking".
Forwarding the bill would be bordering on the pointless. There would be no point in doing that unless they got a good commission out of it, and that is highly unlikely from a company that already bent over backwards to accommodate them with a whole new line of products that fit into the Incarna design. But, again, just for the sake of argument, let's say that they miraculously DO manage to draft a deal in which they DO get a juicy commission even out of this.
There's still no point in going through all that trouble JUST to basically "sell off" their zero-interest-loans received from players (in the form of PLEX stockpiles) at a big discount to the company providing whatever products they "sell through". It would make just as much sense to simply allow people "buybacks" at reduced rate (something like, say, sell CCP a PLEX, get 8 USD back, compared to the 17.5 USD a PLEX costs to buy in the first place), since it would be far, far less trouble and most likely retain more cash that way.
And even better for them (from a financial standpoint) would be to just not allow any form of "cashing out" whatsoever, under any circumstances. Which would most likely be the best thing also from a legal standpoint, since allowing cashing out of any form could be interpretable as allowing gambling or whatnot, and risk getting banned in certain areas (or forced to expensively comply at a cost that would not be financially worth it). So, they're already doing the best thing they can actually do regarding this particular idea of allowing cash-outs (namely, ignore it). _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:16:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Holy One
Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:36:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 15:38:30
Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible.
So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion.
Originally by: Akita T Forwarding the bill would be bordering on the pointless. There would be no point in doing that unless they got a good commission out of it, and ...
Some people like to buy their iPod in a Hotel shop and are willing to pay extra for the convenience it gives them. I am sure that where there is a demand one can make a profit, and one can always argue on the success until the success sets in. --
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:46:00 -
[97]
Well, it's almost to see all the threads being posted when actually it's just .
As for the subscription price being raised, ask Captain Picard.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:58:00 -
[98]
Originally by: DeMichael Crimson Well, it's almost to see all the threads being posted when actually it's just .
For you it is , but for CCP it is . --
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Viking Sven
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Posted - 2011.06.28 15:59:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD.
+1. They already took most of the development out of Eve, while we still pay the same sub fee. Why the hell should we pay more?
CCP needs to unf*ck themselves before touching the sub fee.
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BoBoZoBo
The Wyld Hunt Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:09:00 -
[100]
IMHO No - making the game more expensive WOULD ruin it. Its not simply lack of income ruining the game.... its lack of strategy compiled with expanded (mis)management leading to a lack of efficient use of current income leading to panic
In the end though, If people want to subsidize the game buy buying $60 digital vanity accessories - then f@cking let them. As long as it does not affect advantages in gameplay, who cares.
CCP better just manage it correctly because even more money wont save them if they cannot, just take a look at the US economy. =========================
Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9 |
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Imnothuman
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:20:00 -
[101]
high sub price = less players = less blobs = im in
bring back real fighting no more 600man w****r fleets
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VaMei
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:53:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Akita T
Quote: Nobody wants to play a game where some kid can walk into with extra cash in the pocket and can just shoot anyone in the face, or just walk around in better clothing than others.
From a certain viewpoint, this is already happening. Sell PLEX for ISK, buy the best gear most others can't afford. You can sidestep the issue as much as you like, but fact remains, right now, and since many years ago, you CAN "pay to win" already.
For my part I hated what Plex (and isk for GTC) did to the game. It was billed as a way to fight RMT. All it did was to legitimize it. I hated what character trades did to the game. It was billed as a way to fight Ebay character farming. All it did was to legitimize it.
Eve started as a sandbox game where time, effort, specialization, & connections were rewarded with success while impatience & independence could only lead to failure. Now, the game has evolved into a pay-to-win environment where you can buy anything from ships to skills to friends (aka alts) with either isk or $$$.
What's changed recently for me is seeing that CCP not only doesn't see it as a problem that's hurting the game, but they are happy with where things have gone and see it as a business model to expand on. Add in having CCP's historically limited attention span divided across multiple games, and I simply don't see a future here for me.
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Solstice Project
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:54:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Tobiaz I'm not paying more subscription just so CCP can develop WoD.
You are not paying any subscription. Period.
You quit.
So stop offering your opinion. It's about as relevant as my cats.
When you resub, you may offer an opinion again.
For now, you can simply STFU.
Mr Epeen
I believe your cats are relevant, because else you wouldn't have them.
He's less relevant than your cats.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 16:55:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible.
So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion.
No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo all of a sudden in a game where for 8 years they were completely absent, a game that's set "after the fall" and subsequent rebuild from scratch, with not even the original Earth languages remaining, let alone the memory of such companies ever existing, THAT would destroy immersion. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Solstice Project
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:00:00 -
[105]
Akita's right.
On the other hand, what about player owned shops ?
I'd love to sell some pictures online, via EvE.
Why not ?
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Maverick2011
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:01:00 -
[106]
EVE isn't worth 0.01 more. Its their fail if they decided to develop 2 games at once solely on a game with 300k subscriber where most are second and third accounts and not real players. Their lack of knowledge of this simple economics 101 (dont spend more than you have) is there problem to deal with.
Idk why players who are supporting this since 2003 and are THEIR FRICCKING BOSSES are so desperate trying to save EVE as if it was their mother. CCP gives a damn about every one here. So respect yourself and pay for a service they provide, not for a virtual ideal of happiness.
EVE isnt worth 0.01 cent more from a subscripition fee to a MT point of view. And if they push towards this they will crash the game as it wont hold their playerbase against new competitors coming up soon with fresh content (Guild Wars2, StarWars KOTOR and Diablo 3).
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Solstice Project
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:03:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Maverick2011 EVE isn't worth 0.01 more. Its their fail if they decided to develop 2 games at once solely on a game with 300k subscriber where most are second and third accounts and not real players. Their lack of knowledge of this simple economics 101 (dont spend more than you have) is there problem to deal with.
Idk why players who are supporting this since 2003 and are THEIR FRICCKING BOSSES are so desperate trying to save EVE as if it was their mother. CCP gives a damn about every one here. So respect yourself and pay for a service they provide, not for a virtual ideal of happiness.
EVE isnt worth 0.01 cent more from a subscripition fee to a MT point of view. And if they push towards this they will crash the game as it wont hold their playerbase against new competitors coming up soon with fresh content (Guild Wars2, StarWars KOTOR and Diablo 3).
Makes me wonder why people who share your oppinion are still around ... (yes, it's only an oppinion) As if it was a necessity .... *shakeshead*
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Maplestone
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:08:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Haramir Haleths Discuss or just flame ...
1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:09:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Whitehound on 28/06/2011 17:10:51
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible.
So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion.
No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo ...
Yes you do. You would like to talk about something else? Ok. Let us talk about company logos. You could sell an iPhone with an EVE faction logo on it and tell a story on how Apple managed to establish a store in the EVE universe. People love a good story, especially with an happy ending. Or, if you are bad at story telling, you could rebrand it as a the Quafe iPhone. --
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Viking Sven
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:10:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Maplestone
1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance
This made me lol
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:11:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi,
so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap.
Discuss or just flame ...
How about CCP spend less on those other projects if they can't afford to burn through their cash at the current rate?
Why should I further subsidise Dust or WoD, neither of which I am likely to play? Am I likely to get a reduction in subs later if either of them is a big success? I doubt it!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Theodemir
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:12:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Maplestone
Originally by: Haramir Haleths Discuss or just flame ...
1. Denial 2. Anger 3. Bargaining 4. Depression 5. Acceptance
lmao! Nice post.
Why should we pay more?! The sub is more than double most other MMO's out there. Sigh.
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Shigeru Potatomoto
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:18:00 -
[113]
$15 a month is kind of the unofficial price ceiling for MMO subs. If CCP increased the price, they'd have to increase it for PLEX too would just **** off everyone else who's not already raging over AUR which doesn't even affect them yet but it might someday down the road.
Besides, who's gonna play an MMO where every other character is named Edward?
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Yann Xonogoth
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:23:00 -
[114]
As we speak now, how many player are buying Plex online, and selling them in the market for billions of ISK? Some players are rich, I mean IRL rich, or at least can afford to throw 100 or 200Ç a month in games. If they put such a sum in Plex, you can imagine their ISK wallet... What kind of impact can that money has on EVE's inner economy? An inflation of the prices?
My personnal opnion: allowing monocles buying was one thing, but indirectly allowing ISK buying was a very bad step. Or maybe you can prove me wrong? - Yann Xonogoth |
Swynet
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:27:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Haramir Haleths Hi,
so we all knows CCP need more money for Dracula Online and Dust. Now they want produce more revenue due to selling us stuff in EvE and destroying game mechanics and economy. What do you thing about the idea to get more revenue by increasing the monthly fee a little bit. Maybe 2 Euro up per month instead of of selling game breaking crap.
Discuss or just flame ...
No we don't know. If you do post official thread link?
You are making speculations from **** threads of nerds like you that can't keep the hole serving for mouth closed.
You're just raging and spiting all your poison for little no brains birdies.
Can't understand why Liang was banned when tons of scum like you can create many new threads with false statements and not get the banhammer.
If CCP is doing something bad these days this is all about, let brainless scum running their mouth all day long without closing their beak.
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Anne Arqui
Minmatar Diamonds in the Rough Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:33:00 -
[116]
They could sell White Wolf to EA or Sony?
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Krist Alana
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:40:00 -
[117]
Why should we have to pay more? They are taking on more than they can handle with developing 2 new games. They should scrap either Dust or WoD. (Dust imo)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:46:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Yann Xonogoth My personnal opnion: allowing monocles buying was one thing, but indirectly allowing ISK buying was a very bad step. Or maybe you can prove me wrong?
It is both bad. In both cases do players open their (real) wallet to buy something that only has a use within a game.
If it was poker for real money then it makes sense to throw real money into it. If it was poker with fake money and you would buy the fake money with real money would people laugh until they pee into their pants.
In EVE do people buy ISKs for real money. (Sad, but true.)
It has been like this since the beginning of the goldsellers. I have been writing it many times now, but I will not stop writing it: PLEX was a compromise to keep goldsellers at arm's length while at the same time it increased the community through a play-for-free model. This is not theory, there is no need to argue about it, but it is how it is.
Anything you build on it is bound to go bad. It does not matter if you only sell virtual goods or if you introduce a currency system similar to that of casino chips, where you can turn the fake money back into real money. It is a bridge into the real world and it does not matter if it is one-way only. What matters is that players will never see Aurum as a virtual currency similar to ISK, but just as a weak substitute for $$$. --
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:48:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Akita T on 28/06/2011 17:48:54
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Akita T First off, such a "partnership" would completely destroy whatever immersion they worked so hard to get by pushing Incarna as fast as possible.
So you are saying that buying items for real money, if real or virtual items, destroys EVE's immersion.
No. Seeing a BMW or Apple or Microsoft or Gucci logo all of a sudden in a game where for 8 years they were completely absent, a game that's set "after the fall" and subsequent rebuild from scratch, with not even the original Earth languages remaining, let alone the memory of such companies ever existing, THAT would destroy immersion.
Yes you do.
/facepalm
Quote: You would like to talk about something else? Ok. Let us talk about company logos. You could sell an iPhone with an EVE faction logo on it and tell a story on how Apple managed to establish a store in the EVE universe. People love a good story, especially with an happy ending. Or, if you are bad at story telling, you could rebrand it as a the Quafe iPhone.
/doublefacepalm
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Viking Sven
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Posted - 2011.06.28 17:49:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Yann Xonogoth As we speak now, how many player are buying Plex online, and selling them in the market for billions of ISK? Some players are rich, I mean IRL rich
You're looking at a very narrow picture. First off, the conversion of IRL $$$ to Plex doesn't give a major payoff in isk... it's actually quite IRL expensive to "succeed" that way in eve. Sure, some people might be able to swing it, but most can't in a game where **** gets blown up all the time.
The other issue for those that CAN afford large amounts of isk is supply and demand. There are X many accounts in eve that rely on 1 plex every month to keep playing, which basically means Eve only really requires X many plex per month to sustain all the players that don't sub.
If you buy more plex than subscribers need, there will be a massive supply and the same demand of X. Prices of plex plummet, people get much less isk per plex. People stop buying plex as a result.
If nobody buys plex at all, and the same X demand remains... prices skyrocket on plex, so people start buying plex again with IRL money.
This is why it's not truly RMT, it's very much economy dependent. If anyone states that plex=rmt again, Ima punch them in their groin.
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