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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.06.29 02:00:00 -
[1]
It's that time of the month again! Yes indeed, time for another Bond from yours truly.
Chances are good that this bond is already completely full, but it's still important to make a post about it and all that fun jazz. This time around will be the following terms: 6 Billion collateralized portion at 5% and 6 Billion uncollateralized at 10%. The collateralized portion didn't go up this time because I'm putting the profits from the previous bond into some skills, etc and because I am not using my Charon as collateral this time around (instead, I'll be using it).
Collateralized Portion: RAW23: 4 Billion Magum117: 1 Billion Vaerah Vahrokha: 1 Billion (Has been offered to Vaerah, waiting for confirmation of intent to reinvest at 1 Billion collateralized)
Uncollateralized Portion: RAW23: 2 Billion Tom Hagen: 4 Billion (Has been offered to Tom, waiting for confirmation of intent to reinvest at 4 Billion uncollateralized.)
Collateral will be Megathron BPO ME45, PE9 - 1.1B Providence BPO ME3, PE0 - 2B Dominix BPO ME40, PE9 - 0.8B Raven BPO ME30 PE10 - 1.2B plus just over another 1B worth of stuff that I have not yet procured.
RAW23 will be holding collateral for this Bond 6. Business plan involves trading as in Bond 5, most likely a little more hauling (as my Charon will not be part of the collateral), and also venturing into some manufacturing, which should be interesting. Everything looks solid though. If either VV or Tom backs out (or anyone else), I'll open up spots.
Also, related to the manufacturing aspect of this bond - I am looking for a mineral supplier... if anyone is looking for a buyer, I need minerals in the amounts listed in this thread: Linkage
I'll try for weekly updates, but sometimes trading isn't that exciting. If I miss one, no worries, it just means I'm plugging along and nothing interesting is going on with the bond. Never a bad thing. I imagine I will update though, due to the addition of manufacturing to the bond.
Did I leave anything out... let's see. Oh right. Collateral will be contracted to RAW some time on or before this Thursday. Once confirmed, ISK collection will begin. Bond will begin on or before Friday the 1st of July. It will run to August 1st at the latest. If manufacturing portion isn't working out as I have planned, it will become 100% trading. I expect better returns for myself than the last bond, which was a pretty great success.
Alright, that's all. I'm about to start rambling. Cheers, -Kei
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.06.29 02:20:00 -
[2]
Willing to pick VV's 1b is he doesn't want it.
(Im sure he will though)
Best of luck with your Bonds. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2011.06.29 03:37:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Kei Darker Collateral will be Megathron BPO ME45, PE9 - 1.1B Providence BPO ME3, PE0 - 2B Dominix BPO ME40, PE9 - 0.8B Raven BPO ME30 PE10 - 1.2B plus just over another 1B worth of stuff that I have not yet procured.
Is it not common to value BPOs at NPC prices when using them as collateral? By what method are you valuing BPOs over NPC prices? There is some reasonable research there, but does it justify the premiums over NPC price?
BPO NPC Price Valuation Increase
Megathron 945 MISK 1100 MISK 16.4 % Providence 1710 MISK 2000 MISK 17.0 % Dominix 563 MISK 800 MISK 42.1 % Raven 979 MISK 1200 MISK 22.6 %
Total 4197 MISK 5100 MISK 21.5 %
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.29 06:41:00 -
[4]
Confirming 4 bil :-)
On another related topic, I was just thinking how a bond that for some reason default. I am not saying you will Kei, but for argument sake.
I have 4 bil Uncollateralized And you have part of the bond Collateralized.
Is it an option for Kei in this case to choose to just repay the Collateralized part get his BPO back and skip the rest of the loan? Any ideas and how would Raw23 handle it in this case since he is on both side of the fence?
This becomes interesting the higher the uncollateralized part of a loan is or in case of trading failure on Kei parts and lets say he will only be able to repay 8 bil.
Kei I will try to get in contact with you in game also, atm I having some small problems getting Eve downloaded again after I upgraded my computer :-(
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.06.29 07:45:00 -
[5]
Ok I'll take the 1B slot @5%.
Originally by: Tom Hagen Confirming 4 bil :-)
On another related topic, I was just thinking how a bond that for some reason default. I am not saying you will Kei, but for argument sake.
I have 4 bil Uncollateralized And you have part of the bond Collateralized.
Is it an option for Kei in this case to choose to just repay the Collateralized part get his BPO back and skip the rest of the loan?
It is uncollateralized. This means you WILL lose money. This means you are paid double for the risk and therefore you will face the risk.
If that's not OK, I am up to take 1B uncollateralized as well
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.29 19:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It is uncollateralized. This means you WILL lose money. This means you are paid double for the risk and therefore you will face the risk.
If that's not OK, I am up to take 1B uncollateralized as well
Hi VV o/ Yeah, of course it is unsecured and the higher interest is therefore there to compensate the higher risk.
My question however was more on topic if Kei would partly default and repay only 6 Bill - would RAW then consider the collateralized loan honored or would he consider it defaulted? And it is more philosophicL from my side since I trust Kei ;-)
I.e:
Option I) Considered honored => collateral returned (effectivly treating this as two separate offers)
Option II) Considered defaulted => collateral liquidated, collateral sold and total sum distributed to a) equally distributed to collateral holders b) REmainng funds: Any remaining creditors
IRL financing would probably point towards option II, but I thought it might be an interesting (albeit somewhat theoretical) discussion point :-)
...and no - you won't get to steal any part of my uncollateralized part
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.06.29 20:24:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tom Hagen
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha It is uncollateralized. This means you WILL lose money. This means you are paid double for the risk and therefore you will face the risk.
If that's not OK, I am up to take 1B uncollateralized as well
Hi VV o/ Yeah, of course it is unsecured and the higher interest is therefore there to compensate the higher risk.
My question however was more on topic if Kei would partly default and repay only 6 Bill - would RAW then consider the collateralized loan honored or would he consider it defaulted? And it is more philosophicL from my side since I trust Kei ;-)
I.e:
Option I) Considered honored => collateral returned (effectivly treating this as two separate offers)
Option II) Considered defaulted => collateral liquidated, collateral sold and total sum distributed to a) equally distributed to collateral holders b) REmainng funds: Any remaining creditors
IRL financing would probably point towards option II, but I thought it might be an interesting (albeit somewhat theoretical) discussion point :-)
...and no - you won't get to steal any part of my uncollateralized part
FFS - The forum ate my post when I checked to see if you were really wearing a monocle :-( I now have another reason to hate monocles. This is the second time I've lost a long post on this thread today but I don't have the energy to write it out again now. I'll either reply later tonight or tomorrow morning. Sorry to keep you waiting.
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.06.29 22:27:00 -
[8]
Who said that monocles was useless? :-D
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Oerlikon Llama
Diplomatic Disruption
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Posted - 2011.06.30 00:23:00 -
[9]
I'll throw some iskies in the pile if there's a slot open.
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.06.30 23:06:00 -
[10]
Sorry to anyone else looking to put money into my 6th bond. Looks like she's all full up at 12B and with investors already set to go before the announcement really even happened. I'm sure that so long as profits look like they will be reasonable, I'll be pumping more profits into collateral in the future and continuing to grow the size of bonds at a manageable pace in-line with my skills and abilities.
The collateral has been contracted over to RAW23, and so I am currently awaiting his acceptance of the contract. At this time, I am accepting ISK for the uncollateralized portion of the bond. If you are investing in the collateralized portion, you can send it now if you like, or wait for RAW to confirm receipt of the collateral.
The bond will officially begin tomorrow, July 1st, and finish on or before August 1st. I'll most likely have periodic updates to keep informed my investors and anyone else interested.
Thanks again, and I'll see you all soon. -Kei
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.07.01 04:22:00 -
[11]
ISK sent!
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.01 12:06:00 -
[12]
Ok, collateral received.
A quick note on this: normally when I hold collateral I guarantee the cash value of the bond but I won't be doing that this time. The valuations being used for the prints are at the absolute upper boundary of what they could be expected to sell for and I would expect a month or more would be required to sell them at these prices. So, in the event of default I will pay out the value realised from selling the prints and will act in consultation with the other bond holders so as to reach an agreement on whether to sell them as quickly as possible or for maximum value.
As to Tom's question, yes I would consider Kei to be in default on the whole loan if he defaulted solely on the uncollateralised portion. However, the practical effects would be nil due to the valuation of the prints. If he did scam he would actually be doing the collateralised bond holders a favour by accepting his collateral back. In other circumstances, such as when the collateral is over 100% and I am guaranteeing the cash value of the bond, yes I would consider the whole thing defaulted but would not feel any obligation to pay any extra out to the uncollateralised bond holders as they got a preferential rate for taking just that risk and because thechnically there would be no extra isk as I would be guaranteeing just a cash amount. However, in practice I would probably pay out said isk as I did in the case of AnthonyKiedis' IPO. But the key thing is that I would not feel obliged to do this even if I did.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.01 12:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 01/07/2011 12:35:00 ISK sent.
Also, in case of default I authorize Raw23 to take up to 3 weeks to sell the BPOs at the best price possible.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.07.01 21:09:00 -
[14]
I'll be wanting those BPOs back at the end of the bond, no worries. Once things get rolling, I can toss a little more collateral in RAW's direction, mostly because I'd like my bonds to be collateralized at value, but also to keep all of you (my investors) happy. Things are off to a good start, trading has officially begun.
However, I am still awaiting funds from RAW and Magum.
See you with some more updates soonish.
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.07.09 16:32:00 -
[15]
Week 1 update time already :)
Ladies and Gentlemen, it's that time of the week again for me to give a basic run-down of what's going on with my bond. Since this bond is the first to include manufacturing, I'll split things into two categories to get a good rundown. It has been a while since a weekly report actually had anything significant in it other than "I bought low and sold high again this week, with nothing particularly fun happening." This week is a little better :)
Trading: Another thing that is unusual about my bond this month is that I normally only deal in ships. This month, I expanded into a few other categories I normally don't touch, but still in high cost, lower volume items - as I prefer to trade. In particular, implants were successful this first week. It's not like I'm giving away any secrets by saying that... I can't be sure, but I suspect there was a small manipulation attempt earlier this week in Memory Augmentation - Improved. Either that or someone decided to offload a huge stock of them. Sell orders were briefly down to 82M, so I bought them back up to where they belong for a healthy profit over the next few days. Other than that, nothing particularly interesting in trade. Did manage to do a little bit of hauling for once, but not too much. About 50 Million worth of profit from hauling Dodixie - Jita because I happened to be out there.
Manufacturing: Manufacturing is much more difficult to organize than I had expected. The scale that I'm trying to work at makes getting minerals to the production facility a tedious task. I have still pulled in profits from the manufacturing, but the scaling is not where I want it to be. I have not been able to refill and produce the battleships on a daily basis as I had hoped to do. My alt flies a Charon, but I think it will be more convenient to have two. I'm still thinking about it, but training up just in case. All in all, manufacturing is going ok, but could be better.
Profits are on track at roughly 8% for the week. I'll be back in about a week with further updates. |
Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.07.28 03:26:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Kei Darker on 28/07/2011 03:31:02 Ladies and Gentlemen,
We are a few days early - but I'm paying out ahead of time. Payouts are as follows: RAW: 6.4 Billion Magum117: 1.05 Billion VV: 1.05 Billion Tom: 4.4 Billion
Screenshot of Payouts I am ready to accept collateral back whenever RAW is satisfied. If the screenshot is enough, cool - otherwise I don't mind waiting at all for the other three to confirm receipt of funds. -----------
This bond was fairly successful. I had a larger amount of time to sit down and actively trade as compared with the past couple of bonds. Now that I have finished my degree, I am no longer enslaved to nights of research work, so I can take the time to update orders. My usual trade pattern continues, with trade mostly involved in ships and high cost modules. One interesting thing to note is that there seems to be at least one player competing against my regional orders across the board. I'm used to this when those players are located in Jita, but this one particular competitor operates out of Uchoshi. Whoever you are, Mr. (or Ms.) Uchoshi trader, I'm watching you. Stop 0.01ing all of my regionals! :P
As far as the manufacturing side of things went... I ended up becoming a little too lazy to make this work properly. One big problem I had was hauling minerals and ships about. Given, it wasn't very many jumps to move things, but the logistics of it all were a bit much for me right away. Mostly I just stayed put and didn't do as much manufacturing as I had hoped. Later on in the bond, I decided I would get off my butt and manufacture, but then I ran some numbers and spreadsheets and noticed that manufacturing at current market mineral price would net me a loss. Using buy orders for the minerals might have been an ok idea though. I'm sure I could improve my planning to make this work more efficiently and successfully. I ended up only manufacturing a few days worth of ship runs. It was a good go though. I'm still learning.
Overall, this bond pulled in about 20% total increase before paying investors back.
I'll be starting up bond 7 almost immediately. It will be another trading based bond. This time, the interest rates are going down though, and I will be moving out of collateralized bonds for this one. I may move back into collateralized portions in the future. I'll see you all again soon with my next bond offer.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.28 17:13:00 -
[17]
Received. Thanks for the nice returns again and congrats on finishing your degree!
I'm afraid I'll have to wait till Magum and VV confirm receipt before I unlock the prints though as screenshots can be altered and I don't even begin to have the competence to detect any changes.
Please pre-reserve a chunk of your next bond for me so I don't have to kill flakeys first to get a piece of the action.
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.07.28 22:37:00 -
[18]
Originally by: RAW23 Received. Thanks for the nice returns again and congrats on finishing your degree!
I'm afraid I'll have to wait till Magum and VV confirm receipt before I unlock the prints though as screenshots can be altered and I don't even begin to have the competence to detect any changes.
Please pre-reserve a chunk of your next bond for me so I don't have to kill flakeys first to get a piece of the action.
RAW, I'll put you down for the next one - and I'll try to announce things a little in advance like I usually do as well. I expected as much about the screenshots. Not a problem at all.
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Magum117
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.29 13:29:00 -
[19]
I won°t be able to confirm the transfer until the 9th of August since Im in Tanzania atm. But I trust Kei have sent my ISK so go ahead with the Audit.
Magum117 . |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's
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Posted - 2011.07.29 15:29:00 -
[20]
Originally by: RAW23 Please pre-reserve a chunk of your next bond for me so I don't have to kill flakeys first to get a piece of the action.
I usually hang out in sinq low-sec in WAY too expensive ships for pirating.Just wanted to give a helping hand there
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.29 15:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Magum117 I won°t be able to confirm the transfer until the 9th of August since Im in Tanzania atm. But I trust Kei have sent my ISK so go ahead with the Audit.
Magum117
Just for clarity, are you giving permission to return the collateral? If I do this and it turns out that Kei has not sent you the isk your investment will no longer be secured.
Btw, you can check your wallet balance on evegate if you can't get ingame.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.07.29 20:31:00 -
[22]
Confirming receipt of 1.05B.
In case you start another bond I wish to invest in it, as long as I'll still be able to send you the money (subs are slowly running out).
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.07.29 22:47:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Confirming receipt of 1.05B.
In case you start another bond I wish to invest in it, as long as I'll still be able to send you the money (subs are slowly running out).
Oh, I dunno VV - I heard you've got a huge pile of PLEX lying around for good... :)
But on a serious note - I will make an announcement early for my next bond and give previous investors a chance to get in.
Also - it sounds like Magum is ok with the collateral coming back and the other two collateralized investors have confirmed receipt - so I'm ready to accept collateral whenever is good. I'm thinking I'll give manufacturing another shot - or possibly blueprint copying.
Thanks again, everyone.
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.08.01 23:59:00 -
[24]
Maybe I could get that collateral back? All payments have been confirmed except the 1 billion to Magum. I had no way of knowing he would be on vacation and repaid all investments at once. :)
A partial return of collateral would be alright with me. Hold on to the Raven BPO for a bit if you must. That covers the 1 billion plus some. But - things are paid out and the bond is over.
Thanks again, Kei
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Tom Hagen
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:53:00 -
[25]
A bit late but just to keep things in order..
Confirming ISK in my wallet tyvm!
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:53:00 -
[26]
I'm not being pushy, I swear (well, ok, maybe a little). This is more of a question of curiosity and form... But... what is a standard length of time to allow confirmation of funds before collateral is returned?
The 9th is a considerable amount of time away from now if I will have to wait (at least) that long.
I can hardly blame Magum, RAW, myself, or anyone else for this, but it is a minor inconvenience.
In the future, when I get back to collateralized bonds, perhaps we can set some sort of limit to confirm or deny (within the posted bond ending date), upon which time the investee will be assumed to have been paid back. In circumstances where vacations or this sort of thing become involved, we could plan ahead for this sort of situation.
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Candy Oshea
Amarr Techfree Investment Group
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Posted - 2011.08.03 23:11:00 -
[27]
Do it how i do.
3rd party contracts you the Prints for the cost of the principal+ interest. no need to verify payments then as 3rd party hands out the payments (and takes full responsibility for it.)
I wouldn't do it any other way. ___ iCandy Bonds
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.08.03 23:19:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Candy Oshea Do it how i do.
3rd party contracts you the Prints for the cost of the principal+ interest. no need to verify payments then as 3rd party hands out the payments (and takes full responsibility for it.)
I wouldn't do it any other way.
Ah, of course. That makes about 300 times as much sense as the way I have been doing things. Thanks for the advice Candy.
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2011.08.09 20:23:00 -
[29]
Soo.... any chance I could get that collateral back?
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.08.09 21:26:00 -
[30]
Edited by: RAW23 on 09/08/2011 21:27:24
Originally by: Kei Darker Soo.... any chance I could get that collateral back?
I'll just give it till the end of today. If I still haven't heard from Magum by then we'll have to sort out an api pull so I can check your wallet journal. Given the nature of the third-party role, much as I would like to return the collateral without confirmation, I'm afraid I can't. I do apologise for making you wait this long but I hope you'll understand that I don't have a lot of flexibility here.
Edit - and plus one for Candy's suggestion. The other option for the future is to just confirm via api check immediately but I assume people won't want to hand out their keys when it's not absolutely necessary.
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