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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:06:00 -
[1]
The entire "CCP is a cash-grubbing monster" philosophy is in big trouble when you think about some of the easiest and stealthiest way for CCP to solve all their problems AND also make a load of cash on the side. Can you think what that is ? I'll tell you.
A multitude of fake characters (which are actually NPCs) each of them occasionally putting up small PLEX buy orders for which the ISK is generated by CCP out of thin air. Those fake player NPCs only need to eat up the difference between PLEX created and PLEX consumed by regular players on a regular basis. They don't need to be obvious at all - just a 1-PLEX order now, another one after a few player orders processed, another one later and so on.
And then, they only need to HEAVILY increase the ISK sinks (and maybe reducing ISK faucets) while at the same time introducing new, more attractive (and therefore expensive) items into the game. They can do that by introducing commander-level items (or even some that surpass them) that cost no tags, just LP and ISK, but much less LP and a lot more ISK. Hell, they could just as well be T3 items which tie into the existing T3 economy, but require some ingredients that come from LP shops.
The former would be quite literally undetectable with even the least bit of precautions, the latter would cause next to zero concern. Now, if they could have done that... do you really think they'd go through ALL THIS TROUBLE just to make EVEN LESS money from it ?!?
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:17:00 -
[2]
You must be better at economics than CCP, and they got a professor!
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:20:00 -
[3]
If CCP is truly in financial survival mode, shadow puppet games within the EVEconomy aren't the answer. You can't give a presentation on increasing your revenue by telling people you are going to commit fraud inside your own product.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:20:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T
The entire "CCP is a cash-grubbing monster" philosophy is in big trouble when you think about some of the easiest and stealthiest way for CCP to solve all their problems AND also make a load of cash on the side. Can you think what that is ? I'll tell you.
A multitude of fake characters (which are actually NPCs) each of them occasionally putting up small PLEX buy orders for which the ISK is generated by CCP out of thin air. Those fake player NPCs only need to eat up the difference between PLEX created and PLEX consumed by regular players on a regular basis. They don't need to be obvious at all - just a 1-PLEX order now, another one after a few player orders processed, another one later and so on.
I know this one .. we'll never know if they actually do that or not .. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:22:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling I know this one .. we'll never know if they actually do that or not ..
WTB T3 tifloilhat _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:24:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jennifer Starling I know this one .. we'll never know if they actually do that or not ..
WTB T3 tifloilhat
13267 Aur
*** Plus you know CCP isn't that smart... Look at the last few dev blogs......
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:25:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Smagd You must be better at economics than CCP, and they got a professor!
I'll say ! They should be, shouldn't they ? You'd think it would be normal to be so, but then again... _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:26:00 -
[8]
Who's to say that haven't already been doing this, but want even more money?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Who's to say that haven't already been doing this, but want even more money?
I'm going to need a second T3 tinfoil hat, my first one appears to do nothing. Should I upgrade to a T4 tinfoilhat ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
They can do that by introducing commander-level items (or even some that surpass them) that cost no tags, just LP and ISK
Err... isn't that the CONCORD LP store and Incursions?
----- <wearing_$1000_jeans> Let them eat cake! </wearing_$1000_jeans> |
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Sarah De'Ath
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:31:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Rodj Blake stuff
I'm going to need a second T3 tinfoil hat, my first one appears to do nothing. Should I upgrade to a T4 tinfoilhat ?
That would be a TOP HAT, more expeensive than a monocle at 15k AUR
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:32:00 -
[12]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Akita T They can do that by introducing commander-level items (or even some that surpass them) that cost no tags, just LP and ISK
Err... isn't that the CONCORD LP store and Incursions?
Egads, I just created the next moon landing conspiracy. /facedesk _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:38:00 -
[13]
You do realize that, if CCP were to do such a thing, news of this manipulation would get out and all hell would break loose. Perhaps not as much as recent events, but it would smack of T20-esque manipulations. Many questions would be raised on who is profiting, who is loosing out, so on and so forth ad nauseam.
CCP does seem to be incompetent on the PR side, but I think the risk imposed by such a scheme would be easily recognized as unwise and possibly illegal, once they promoted PLEX in a public advertisement, which they have done since its inception.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 29/06/2011 15:47:48
Doing so would entail them violating their own published terms of service.
I go here: https://secure.eveonline.com/PLEX/
Quote: This will transfer the PLEX item back into the redeeming system, ready for use out of game. Don't worry, you can redeem and reverse redeem any PLEX as many times as you like. Want to read more about this process? Check out our EVElopedia article on PLEX.
So, I go to the site CCP says I should learn the details of. Strangely a wiki, but a locked one, and official.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/30_Day_Concord_Pilot_License_Extension
Quote: Why use PLEX?
PLEX offers an alternative way for people to pay for their subscription without the use of our more conventional payment methods. Using PLEX, pilots can earn game time simply by playing EVE.
The PLEX system improves on the current method of secure time code trading since it uses the EVE market to nerf price fixing. And since you can only sell time codes to people who want to play for that time, the system is capped.
I'm not a lawyer, and maybe a company would be allowed to blatantly lie about the terms of their gift cards to the public. But, I kind of doubt it.
edit to add: actually, the Aurum shop also violates these currently published terms of service. So, who knows. I wasn't able to find an actual EULA for plex, and went one step away from buying the things just to find out. Which kind of shocked me. It just directs to their wiki, which is itself currently inaccurate. Compare that to this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3122091
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Akita T They can do that by introducing commander-level items (or even some that surpass them) that cost no tags, just LP and ISK
Err... isn't that the CONCORD LP store and Incursions?
Egads, I just created the next moon landing conspiracy. /facedesk
Sorry, can't tell what your point is. I'm just not seeing the connection between "money-grubbing" and "making even less money".
Not grokking the moon landing comment either.
Needs more context.
Quote:
The entire "CCP is a cash-grubbing monster" philosophy is in big trouble when you think about some of the easiest and stealthiest way for CCP to solve all their problems AND also make a load of cash on the side. Can you think what that is ?
snip ...NPC PLEX orders and Incursions/CONCORD LP store ...
Now, if they could have done that... do you really think they'd go through ALL THIS TROUBLE just to make EVEN LESS money from it ?!?
----- <wearing_$1000_jeans> Let them eat cake! </wearing_$1000_jeans> |
Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Val'Dore You can't give a presentation on increasing your revenue by telling people you are going to commit fraud inside your own product.
This - the moment this market fraud is discovered, CCP is going down in flames and tbh, I'd prefer 3-5 USD sub increase to mingling with game economy and MT crap.
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:56:00 -
[17]
It isn't that I think CCP is 'money grubbing' of 'evil'.
It's that I think EVE the game product that makes money and CCP itself is under a lot of undue pressure because of corporate over-reach.
I think the needful situation CCP has put itself in is causing them to make decisions that are short sighted, and later on those decisions could create situations that at the very least could make the game less fun (and less EVE) and , at worst, could threaten the existence of the game I enjoy and the very company that made it.
I want CCP to prosper and I want eve to continue on forever. None of us know what the future holds, but many of us think CCP is screwing up a bit to much lately and that is concerning.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.06.29 15:59:00 -
[18]
I don't think they're cash grubbing monsters. Just a bit full of themselves thinking that Incarna is the best thing since sliced bread when the actual reception ranges from rage to indifference. And foolish enough to think they could sell those custom items for so much when so few people can see them.
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Kaomond
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Kaomond on 29/06/2011 16:03:55 That;s odd i clicked to reply to an entirely different topic
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:04:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Doing so would entail them violating their own published terms of service. [...hugesnip...]
No, it wouldn't. The only guarantee they give you is that if you apply a PLEX to an account, you get 30 days of gametime extra.
Everything else is just explanations of the current situation and options. They have absolutely no obligation nor restrictions regarding ISK prices of PLEX, and if they wanted to sell or buy PLEX for ISK, nothing would stop them from a legal standpoint.
In fact, they have as much as flat out stated quite a while ago (at the latest fanfest presentation the economist gave) that they reserve the right to intervene in the PLEX market if they ever feel the prices are not to their liking. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Jennifer Starling I know this one .. we'll never know if they actually do that or not ..
WTB T3 tifloilhat
Available next week in the Noble Exchange for the low, low price of 24000 Aur.
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Medidranda Livoga
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:09:00 -
[22]
Maybe PLEX is just another thing that is too big to fail.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: stoicfaux Sorry, can't tell what your point is. I'm just not seeing the connection between "money-grubbing" and "making even less money". Not grokking the moon landing comment either. Needs more context.
The current protests are all based on the idea that CCP is a money-grubbing monster of a company that plans to eventually introduce overt "pay to win" microtransactions to make a shedload more money than they already are. I presented a scenario in which CCP could introduce a stealth way to reverse the current "PLEXflow" (currently more are created than destroyed) while at the same time encouraging more people to buy PLEX for cash. And then people started saying something akin to "well, don't you think they are already doing that?" which is akin to me just having accidentally started a conspiracy theory (and the last bit of the prerequisites was the new, better, more expensive items to suck out ISK from the economy).
_
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:11:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Emperor Cheney Doing so would entail them violating their own published terms of service. [...hugesnip...]
No, it wouldn't. The only guarantee they give you is that if you apply a PLEX to an account, you get 30 days of gametime extra.
Everything else is just explanations of the current situation and options. They have absolutely no obligation nor restrictions regarding ISK prices of PLEX, and if they wanted to sell or buy PLEX for ISK, nothing would stop them from a legal standpoint.
In fact, they have as much as flat out stated quite a while ago (at the latest fanfest presentation the economist gave) that they reserve the right to intervene in the PLEX market if they ever feel the prices are not to their liking.
In any case this whole issue would cripple CCP PR image (like it's not tarnished already). Truth is MT is hugely unpopular and there's no real reason to bring it to Eve as it would contribute absolutely nothing. Wait... there are 2 reasons: Dust and WoD.
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:11:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 29/06/2011 16:12:35
Originally by: Takseen I don't think they're cash grubbing monsters. Just a bit full of themselves thinking that Incarna is the best thing since sliced bread when the actual reception ranges from rage to indifference. And foolish enough to think they could sell those custom items for so much when so few people can see them.
I agree, but I also think CCP has gotten big headed in other areas. They made ONE hugely successful game and haven't really experienced the kind of tragic end other companies have.
In short, because EVE rocks CCP thinks they are invincible (like we say in my part of the world about a drunk, "10 feet tall and bullet proof") and it concerns me because I know what happens to people and companies when they get convinced of their own fallabilty....
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Siiee
Recycled Heroes
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:12:00 -
[26]
Quote: And since you can only sell time codes to people who want to play for that time, the system is capped.
That was the original promise of the PLEX system, and IMO it's actually a pretty good system, but it's been broken technically ever since you could do character trades with PLEX, and broken even more with Fanfset tickets for PLEX. Now with the NeX the entire "capping" system for PLEX is busted wide open. It's still not as bad as CCP selling ISK directly, but as the NeX catalog expands they will reach a point where they might as well.
To speak to the OPs point, A year ago I would have said "no way" they'd never do that strictly because it would break the self limiting system for PLEX that they setup, but when they said that they would manipulate plex if the price got out of hand, and with all the new ways to spend PLEX that were coming out I realized that they just didn't care anymore.
The real reason I don't think that is something they're doing now is it would take a level of care and subtlety to pull off without getting caught that I don't think CCP possesses.
And even if they thought to pull off a trick like that you'd still see them rolling out micro transactions, because MTs are the big buzzword that everyone is flocking to. These are the sort of things that out of touch corporate types will be pushing the company towards.
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Fistme
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:14:00 -
[27]
ccp was a much better company from 2003-2006. scum bagery and ****ty side projects that are destined to fail and waste money have sadly taken the reins.
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i5L4NDOF5T4BiLiTY
Gallente sHaKeDoWn..
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:15:00 -
[28]
How about Plex's can only be activated at the station where your clone is, then remove all cloning facilties from trade hubs and then let the gankers have field day. would that make enough plexs go poof?
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:15:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Estephania In any case this whole issue would cripple CCP PR image (like it's not tarnished already). Truth is MT is hugely unpopular and there's no real reason to bring it to Eve as it would contribute absolutely nothing. Wait... there are 2 reasons: Dust and WoD.
So what would tarnish the image more : something which may very well never be discovered, which only needs a handful of people to know about (and can easily be denied) which would effectively be just as (if not more) profitable as a MT shop... or something like a massive, overt introduction of MT with prices so high that only a small sample of the population will bother ? _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Blitzproxy
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Posted - 2011.06.29 16:15:00 -
[30]
they took the 20 of me for a toon tranfer THEN locked the account due to .... well fluk knows what .... account locked ... toon who nows where .... ccp a no show .... petitions in ect ect ect
if that is not cash grabbing i dont know what is
ccp ... flap em ... hope they go broke and dismantle eve
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