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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:36:00 -
[1]
A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.
To read the blog in full, please click on this link.
Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Huyai Tsukurit
Caldari Grau Foundation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:38:00 -
[2]
yay?
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Hektor Fisk
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:41:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Hektor Fisk on 02/07/2011 16:41:30
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
\o/
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Ray Prime
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:42:00 -
[4]
Thanks CCP Navigator!
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:42:00 -
[5]
kume bya ?
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:42:00 -
[6]
I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
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Zakarazor
Amarr Inadeptus Mechanicus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:43:00 -
[7]
Thank you CCP. Now what that so hard?
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:43:00 -
[8]
lmfao, anyone who buys it was "only intended to debate something" is a ******, do you often disagree with serial killing but then debate its merits? no you don't, you got caught with your hand in the cookie jar CCP, it would have been better to admit it than try to blame your little brother
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Roh Voleto
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:43:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Roh Voleto on 02/07/2011 16:45:43
Quote: ...game breaking items or enhancements in...
That does not mean "no in-game advantages".
Edit: Oh, and "unfair advantage" does not mean "no advantage" either.
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Zhula Guixgrixks
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zhula Guixgrixks on 02/07/2011 16:44:22 bump..oh wait..ok back to reading
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:45:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ray Prime Thanks CCP Navigator!
My pleasure!
Bear in mind that I am only the messenger and that the hard work was all done by people like CCP Zulu, CCP Soundwave, CCP Flying Scotsman and the CSM. Those are the people who really deserve your thanks but I will pass it on to them
Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Arja Marketta
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:45:00 -
[12]
Good to have a confirmation that non-vanity items will never appear in the store. Good also about ship-spinning, for those that like it.
What I don't see is anyone from CCP addressing Hilmar's email, or the tone therein. The CSM statement acknowledges player upset over it
Quote: The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
but nothing from CCP on that topic.
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Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:45:00 -
[13]
/satisfied. I'll resub tonight...
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:45:00 -
[14]
How hard was it to state vanity items only so long ago!?! Why did it have to take ALL this trouble!?
WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX THE ******* SKILLS NOT APPLYING BUG!? It isn't as in pvp someones just gonna let you go because your skills are suddenly no longer applying FFS.... Or will you refund me the weeks I haven't been able to pvp because of it?
--signature-- My latest pvp video: Link |
Ensnry
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:45:00 -
[15]
Rejoice Brothers, This is a day we won against the tyranny!
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Johnathan Walker
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:46:00 -
[16]
Thank you CSM for dropping your personal lives at a moment's notice and flying to the corner of the world. Thank you CCP for putting together the meeting, even if the community was on your doorstep ready to burn the place down.
In the future, I hope to see more of the "good old days" of communication return wherever resources allow. Speaking of which, time to go load up my ship spinning.
Warmly, "The Bear" JW
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Ager Agemo
Caldari Care Factor
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[17]
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/7/9/yessssthissat128601039853004113.jpg
Image changed to link. Navigator
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Darth Vapour
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[18]
Quote: CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better.
And makes no indication at all it will be better in the future.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:51:51 Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:47:38 "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
You said the same thing last year about ALL forms of micro transactions.... What is the expiration date associated with the above statement??
http://i.imgur.com/f5Cq5.jpg
Edit to add the link for the actual forum thread:
Original statement of no MT by CCP
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[20]
Quote: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins.
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Ella Scorpio
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[21]
I am satisfied. I hope the lesson CCP took from this is that more tranperency and debate (including players, not just CSM) is good, rather than deciding that all communication now must be tightly controlled.
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Kitsune Sakai
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:47:00 -
[22]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:48:00 -
[23]
Thanks for the info. Good job. When will we see these devblogs they promise?
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 02/07/2011 16:50:44 Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 02/07/2011 16:49:33 Ground floor
Edit: And awaiting for you $hitheads to roll out standings for Aurum next year sometime. \o/
...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Rose Hips
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:49:00 -
[25]
(reserved for comment)
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:49:00 -
[26]
So you had to fly people all the way to Iceland before you could answer "Purely vanity items only".
God help you when the next thing goes wrong.
Other than that, lets put this one to bed.
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quite cute kinda
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:49:00 -
[27]
All that was needed was an answer of NO to the big yellow question, the majority of the rage would have blown over, the fact it took so long is quite dissapointing, I am however glad that we can finally get back to the serious business of internet spaceships.
CCP Fallout:My understanding is that a blog is being worked on. I don';t know what the ETA of it is, as the Community team has been too busy handling war declarations from various countries. |
Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Nit picky much.... game breaking changes such as P2W items are what we all were *****ing about, get a life
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:49:00 -
[29]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
That was the everlasting moment I had been waiting for, and the only thing that prevented me from walking away.
Kudos, CCP!
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 02/07/2011 16:54:20
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
CSM apparently sees and addresses this issue:
Quote: We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
edit: laughing so hard at the video.
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:50:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Hektor Fisk Edited by: Hektor Fisk on 02/07/2011 16:41:30
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
\o/
\o/
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:50:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Salpun Thanks for the info. Good job. When will we see these devblogs they promise?
Unfortunately we do not have those dates pinned down just yet. i will speak to Zulu early next week and see if I can get you an update
Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Doctor Garamond Trebuchet
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:52:00 -
[33]
Not bad, resubbing 1 of 2. Burned pretty bad, we'll see what they do, not just what they say but good start.
Thanks for all the hard work, even if us Roleplayers were ****ed on and openly mocked by eve radio and the 2 members of the CSM on the radio show.
- "This is Monacleysmic Incarnage!" Ö - Nath Blazek
CAS 101
Where is my Lab Coat? Monacle??? |
Dinta Zembo
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:52:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Dinta Zembo on 02/07/2011 16:52:10 Again the 'are no plans, have never been any' statement, but WILL there ever be any?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:52:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Dirk Decibel
Originally by: Hektor Fisk Edited by: Hektor Fisk on 02/07/2011 16:41:30
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
\o/
\o/ \o/
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Taedrin
Gallente Zero Percent Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:52:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:53:00 -
[37]
Thank you CCP for your patience and openness with the passionate trolls we have in this community.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:53:00 -
[38]
I still want to know if we're going to get our save fitting slots back with out being charged?
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:54:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:54:00 -
[40]
reserved
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Ando Godson
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:54:00 -
[41]
I think my account is going to stay cancelled, at least for a while. While the news about microtransactions is mostly good, I remain pretty mistrustful of CCP. I'll need to see more concrete actions at this point; I'm watching what you say, but the important thing is what you do.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[42]
Did the CSM see a working version of the new ship hanger? Will the settings be split anytime soon?
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Azztoroid
Shipwreck cove
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[43]
Gunz will remain silent and a giant thanks to the CSM for helping us with these isues. Thereb is a long way to trust, but these two statements are deffently the right way to begin.....
This hopefully are the beginning for something great...
Azz will rest hes guns....and now im goin¿g to re sub all accounts and get my main a monocle :)
Azz
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ceasefire grantet, but 1400`s are ready to open fire again 2nd July is my deadline
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* |
Thoraxe Rig
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Thoraxe Rig on 02/07/2011 16:56:46 I am highly relieved to read this, I'll still be watching what CCP actually does, and the "we have no plans to introduce non-vanity items" sounds ever so slightly open-ended. However, I'm satisfied and will trust CCP to never introduce non-vanity items.
Also, INB4 a flood of threads picking out little words and phrases like the "we have no plans to introduce non-vanity" and interpreting it as "Soon, Non-vanity items!".
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Novak Sarin
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[45]
Trebor: Will there be meeting minutes released to the community, as promised on twitter? and if so, when?
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Juan Sezole
The Colonial Forces
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[46]
Okay now someone please explain why, a week ago, this could not have been stated rather than the offensive "pants" blog?
Serious CCP you are your OWN worse enemies.
Of course the cynical side of me thinks it went like this
Incarna launch Storm hits Hilmer tells everyone to hold firm Zulu rageblogs Finance starts to see the unsub numbers and tells them to sort it out CCP folds
Wish I could say this is just pure paranoid thinking but seriously I cant
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:56:00 -
[47]
Two weeks and an emergency CSM meeting in Iceland for that? Come on, you could have said all that on day one of this mess.
And no, I won't be resubscribing. Going to give this game a break and check back in a few months (year?) and see if you address the rest of the problems that you let get out of hand. Remember, this was not only about micro-transactions you know.
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Mater Dolorosa
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:57:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Mater Dolorosa on 02/07/2011 17:02:47
That's all about the hardware issues ? Change the minimum spec ?
CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
Is that all ?
Sorry CCP won't get an Euro from me till I actually see investments of the CCP devs on game related issues/improvements of Eve. I've paid 2 years for that Incarna closet (Dust & Wod), that's enough...
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Taedrin
Gallente Zero Percent Tax Haven
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:58:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
Notice that there is a difference between saying there will be no microtransactions, and saying that there are no plans for microtransactions. Last year at this time, CCP probably DIDN'T have any plans to introduce microtransactions.
As for myself, the only thing that I care about is clear and honest communication between the players and CCP. I could care less about microtransactions, so long as the game is fun to play. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Shar Antria
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:58:00 -
[50]
While I was not in full-blown rage mode over this, I was somewhat concerned at the implications of MT in the game. I'm on a non-recurring 30 day sub as is, even before I heard about this whole debacle, so my subscription plan has not changed much.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:58:00 -
[51]
reserved
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Frau JeanYus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:59:00 -
[52]
My hope and wish is that Eve will get enough Dev time to fix the many issues we have been discussing for years now.
We play Eve, some of us love Eve. Let's try and focus back to getting Eve up to the most awesome Spacey Ship game on the internetsweb.
Thanks, and we are watching you :) |
Lady Callia
Caldari The Graduates
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Posted - 2011.07.02 16:59:00 -
[53]
I think a lot of this could have been prevented with a betatest team (possibly in the form of the CSM?)
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Geksz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:00:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:06:10 Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:01:09 Will there be an explanation on WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A PERMANENT HANGAR BAY VEIW (like the old one without Incarna)? And why isn't Incarna optional like CCP promised earlier? (I'm sorry, but the option to have a still picture instead if the hangar is really disappointing, and in early test builds it wasn't even there!!!)
The blog clearly states that CCP is working on implementing a new spinning ship hangar view. OK, good to know, but what was wrong with the old one?
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Starkiller Adams
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:00:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Starkiller Adams on 02/07/2011 17:01:31 OK!!!!!! there will be no game breaking stuff introduced by eve. VICTORY!
Some faith renewed but i still would like some more info about new real content coming into eve new ships, new balance issues, fixing low sec, fixing hybrids, fixing faction warfare instead of T-shirts, gold scorpions I would like the resources that EVE produces more spent on stuff for Eve not funding WOD,and dust.
I really would like a response to that point which i think is one of the roots of the outrage.
With that said I' reasonably happy with the complete and thorough response from CCP.
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:00:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Serpents smile on 02/07/2011 17:02:18
*Goosebumps.*
Good feeling.
Sad to see no official response on the leaked email from out of touch Hilmar from Hilmar, but meh. He now knows he will be held against the light of what he does, not what he is saying, (talk about Damocles sword).
Great thanks to all involved, including those rioting.
Hope CCP will think of a way to step into damage control faster if, hopefully not, this ever happens again.
Leaves me 1 question, how many damage controls did you get contracted Soundwave?
Edit: oh, very happy to get our hangar back. HELL YESS!! *\o/*
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Tautut
The Union Of The Snake
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:00:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Tautut on 02/07/2011 17:01:41 I read the blog & to me, it couldn't be more explicit.
Every concern I've had has been answered - and I'm back in the game.
Thanks for taking the time to address the issues in the proper manner - and to get the communication straight before hand.
Edit: I'm hoping that we can have a big love in now - and then get on with podding one another again.
The Union of the Snake [SNAKE]
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Heretic Girl
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:01:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ando Godson I think my account is going to stay cancelled, at least for a while. While the news about microtransactions is mostly good, I remain pretty mistrustful of CCP. I'll need to see more concrete actions at this point; I'm watching what you say, but the important thing is what you do.
Exactly. CCP saying one thing and doing another has become a pattern in last year, will have 1 account subbed to follow the situation, but 2 other will stay unsubbed for now....
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Bran Rockinharder
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:01:00 -
[59]
Thank you for taking the issues that would be game/deal breaking for so many players seriously. I couldn't be more pleased with the commitment to no pay to win. Huge sigh of relief.
Faith is restored and +3 accounts again.
Huge victory for CSM and CCP.
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Dracnys
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:01:00 -
[60]
VERY happy to see this end well. Great job by both the CSM and CCP for clearing up the mess after the Incarna release. EVE has been through many valleys and this is the deepest but it's driven by so many people's deep passion that it'll master all challenges. EVE forever!
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Wingi
Amarr The Wolfhounds
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:02:00 -
[61]
You have definitely clarified your position, its too late for me, that does not mean that i distrust what you say i guess i have been unhappy with the direction of eve since the announcement of dust. Plus i have found another home, i do believe you need a good competitor for the sake of eve and sandbox mmo's in general. My 3 accounts still go, but i think you have done enough to save the game well done CSM and CCP :)
Fly safe...
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:03:00 -
[62]
Where did you say the video was?
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Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Concentrated Evil
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:03:00 -
[63]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
I'll look at what you do, rather than what you say.
Also: is complete communications phailure an Icelandic thing maybe? Do peeps not talk to each other there? Or are they always drunk when they do? Right now, cultural differences are p much the only thing that can explain this total ****-up imo.
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:03:00 -
[64]
#1 thing that CCP needs to do is CUT BACK ON DEV BLOG RED TAPE!
Honestly theres seems to be something really holding back on information, why arent there more frequent open communication devblogs of things coming/changing?
This seems to be the roof of the problem, theres nothing wrong with ccp or eve but theres a lack of community communication... like these upcoming devblogs, will those be weeks from now?
Wheres the timeline for incarna roll out of the rest of the features even ballpark figures?
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Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:04:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Mitchello on 02/07/2011 17:05:56 Commendable, very much so.
I still have concerns over the absence of the topic of convenience items, since that is both the commercial escape option as well as still suffering from unclarity about definitions which can confuse people along the road as they are introduced. But, it is a good step in the direction.
It speaks for CCP's values that they engaged in this. Yes, they had to due to commercial dependancy, but still, they could have just said "our way or the highway". And they didn't.
It saddens me that there is still a level of spin involved. On the newsletter topic, I can imagine how hard that hit as that got personal, completely understandable. But most of us know what kind of instrument such newsletters are for, particularly in this industry. They guide mindset, awareness, adoption of concepts are buzzwords and creative direction among employees. Especially in this industry.
But, you know, that is fine. One big lesson here, is that there has grown quite a distance between the parts of this huge and amazing triangle of CCP / EVE / Customers. That cuts in all ways, we have seen that, and I do hope that we all have seen that now.
As for the communicative challenges, yeah it's beyond clear now that the external and internal communicative hiccups have resulted in this mess. It is a shame, we saw last year another big issue with that and these matters really are entirely avoidable without painful lessons. But I hope that this gets picked up on, and capitalised on.
Why? Because Hilmar was right. EVE is an emergant dynamic. And we're all in it. Customers and CCP. Communication among us and between us is vital to the synergy and balance in growth, adoption and direction of EVE.
This cannot have been easy, respect.
Come to EVE in China, EXPERT HOUSING, New Eden's Blue Lagoon.
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Taladool
Minmatar JIta-Hosting
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:04:00 -
[66]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
I underlined the important part. They just say they don't plan it. Doesn't mean they wont plan it later.
TS3 and TS2 servers for rent, order here |
Adrie Atticus
Mining and Industrial Services The Irukandji
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:05:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Windjammer Where did you say the video was?
It was embedded on the blog itself, copied a link for you if you can't see it: Linkage
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Kitsune Sakai
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:05:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Nit picky much.... game breaking changes such as P2W items are what we all were *****ing about, get a life
When dealing with people who have been demonstrably disrespecting you in the past, you can't depend on them being honest. Wording then comes important. The wording is totally unnecessary unless they wanted to leave some wriggle-room..
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KrustyKrab
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:05:00 -
[69]
Well...I'm ok with this. CCP will be on 'probation' with me for a bit, but I think I'm satisfied enough with this to continue playing a bit. Might not resub the 3 accounts that have already expired for a bit, but that leaves me with 4 to tool around in for the moment.
I'll probably still play Perpetuum for a while, I'm digging that game. We'll see how everything goes. At least we've had a decent reply to majority of our concerns.
Game on I suppose... Stuff goes here |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: CCP Zulu The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date.
I guess I shouldn't have expected too much out of a bunch of space nerds being flown to Iceland; however I didn't think that negotiating a simple schedule for a no-brainer feature with minimum dev resource requirements should have been up to their abilities. No?
Turns out that in RL our 0.0 reps couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper sack. How disappointing. ... Return the Old Hangar Back... for Immersion.
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Gooey Kablooie
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:06:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Gooey Kablooie on 02/07/2011 17:06:12 Just resubbed my 2 unsubbed accounts. Thanks CCP and CSM.
Next time CCP, would it hurt to be a little proactive instead of reactive?
Edit: Oh bloody hell, used the wrong alt. Oh well.
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Logan LaMort
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:06:00 -
[72]
Satisfied with this outcome, will see what the future holds but I'm hopeful.
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Soddington Smythe
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:07:00 -
[73]
Great to hear there's to be no game changing MT. A bit puzzled why it took a week,a dozen airfares to Iceland and some translators to say it though.
A sorry or two thrown in as well wouldn't have hurt. But all in all peace returns to EVE and the scammers and griefers can get on with business.
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Goodwill City
Amarr The Society of Goodwill
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:07:00 -
[74]
Sanity prevails. The video is a good touch - you should do more CSM v CCP face-off videos like this
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Raging George
Caldari Raging Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:07:00 -
[75]
Yay! Don't have to quit my favorite video game now!
Now back to the grinder and get the rest of Incarna out so we can do something other than walk in circles and find agents easier.
And keep fixing flying in space!
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Sticky Hamster
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:07:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Sticky Hamster on 02/07/2011 17:14:38 Edited by: Sticky Hamster on 02/07/2011 17:09:03 I'm relieved.
Thank you CCP for telling us that there will ONLY BE VANITY ITEMS IN THE ITEM SHOP.
As long as that is true, I will be your loyal customer. I want you to financially prosper.
If you ever BETRAY your customers by breaking that promise...Many of us will vote with our money and leave.
And can I have my spinny ships back? I loved the old dock.
Sticky Hamster
(edit) p.s. people, show CCP a positive threadaught for once.
(((and))) I LOVE the agent finder.
(((AND))) I would like to see the cosmetic stuff in the itemshop be sold ingame to players in the form of blueprints, maybe blueprint copies with 1 possible run only...I would like to see all of that stuff...even a monacle have to be crafted.
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I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:08:00 -
[77]
I don't think the trust CCP has enjoyed over the years from the community will ever be the same for the fact that they are saying there are no plans for "gold ammo", in the same manner as they said about microtransactions not so long ago.
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Mechanoid Kryten
Humble Origins Red Dwarf Racketeering Division
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:08:00 -
[78]
*quits looking at perpetuum and goes back to coding worthless 3rd party apps no one uses*
And hey, if you introduce a Kryten-looking robot suit that's even 1/2 as good as the one he had in the old character creator to the Nex store, i would mine up enough isk to buy it with isk :)
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Don Aubaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:09:00 -
[79]
Well...this is kinda satisfactory. Why it took a week to get this out is beyond me.
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
And someone at CCP should learn to stop speaking once a point is made. That first sentence is all what people wanted to hear. The second sentence comes over just to save face. It's not believable. The opertunity to make that point expired last week. And it opens up yet again a whole can of wurms because it introduces terms as 'game breaking' that are again open for discussion. Really guys, get some professional help to massage someone's ego out of messages. If you really wanted to make the point then it should have been 'We reconfirm CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.' or so.
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Solderan
Gallente Intergalactic Combined Technologies The Chamber of Commerce
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:09:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mitchello Edited by: Mitchello on 02/07/2011 17:05:56 Commendable, very much so.
I still have concerns over the absence of the topic of convenience items, since that is both the commercial escape option as well as still suffering from unclarity about definitions which can confuse people along the road as they are introduced. But, it is a good step in the direction.
It speaks for CCP's values that they engaged in this. Yes, they had to due to commercial dependancy, but still, they could have just said "our way or the highway". And they didn't.
It saddens me that there is still a level of spin involved. On the newsletter topic, I can imagine how hard that hit as that got personal, completely understandable. But most of us know what kind of instrument such newsletters are for, particularly in this industry. They guide mindset, awareness, adoption of concepts are buzzwords and creative direction among employees. Especially in this industry.
But, you know, that is fine. One big lesson here, is that there has grown quite a distance between the parts of this huge and amazing triangle of CCP / EVE / Customers. That cuts in all ways, we have seen that, and I do hope that we all have seen that now.
As for the communicative challenges, yeah it's beyond clear now that the external and internal communicative hiccups have resulted in this mess. It is a shame, we saw last year another big issue with that and these matters really are entirely avoidable without painful lessons. But I hope that this gets picked up on, and capitalised on.
Why? Because Hilmar was right. EVE is an emergant dynamic. And we're all in it. Customers and CCP. Communication among us and between us is vital to the synergy and balance in growth, adoption and direction of EVE.
This cannot have been easy, respect.
I think convenience items will fall under the "grey" area they mentioned in the blog.
I'm mostly satisfied but I'd like some talk about dev funding for EVE and internet spaceships. When are the broken things being fixed? When are you going to fix 0.0? Lowsec? FW? Blaster re balances? Are we going to be seeing nothing but Dust/W.I.S. related updates? Are you going to be giving us Internet spaceship updates or more WOD/Dust beta tests.
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SlayerOfArgus
Gallente Hermes Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:10:00 -
[81]
Edited by: SlayerOfArgus on 02/07/2011 17:14:47
Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with "ship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date.
\o/ Many thanks to the CSM for demanding this back and for CCP for returning this feature. And thank you for vanity items only. Ship skins is something you will make bank on for sure. I know I will want to have a ship skin for my dominix
That is of course after I get a new comp, since my laptop doesn't support shader model 3.0
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RLCHANCE
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:10:00 -
[82]
\SHIP SPINNING/ =D
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zzlep Alduin
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:11:00 -
[83]
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
Any plans to improve this side of the game? e.g. we invest a lot of time in the game and still loose expensive things to client crashes etc.... lol
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Harleen Frances Quinzel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:11:00 -
[84]
Quoting HIlmar: "I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say".
So lets see what they actually DO!
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:11:00 -
[85]
CSM just saved CCP.
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Malak Artoo
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:11:00 -
[86]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Sheesh guys, was that so hard to say in the first place?
This is a real relief. I really like Eve, I'd hate to have to stop playing it because of some marketing suits.
That said, I've come to think in the past days that this was just a series of really unfortunate events that started with the $99 thing and lead to all these hard feelings people have been having. Better PR is really needed.
Guess we can all be BFF's again? |
Zastrow
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:12:00 -
[87]
look at this csm being useful
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Alissa Solette
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:12:00 -
[88]
Hi Navigator, Zulu, CSM members and anyone else at CCP
First off, thanks for the response.
Secondly, thank you for finally addressing my main concern: gold ammo and pay to win.
While I do feel that the CCP statement could have been a bit (or even a lot) more apologetic (especially in light of how the players were talked about in the Fearless leak, the leaked e-mail and the Zulu Dev Blog) I am glad do see that you were either forced to shelve your RMT plans or never actually had them (tho if you never had them then why were there even any big arguments between CCP and the CSM? *tinfoil*)
I'll be eagerly awaiting your future dev blogs.
I'd also like to point out that I found the video pretty weak... You basically just reminisced about the past two days (which were certainly hard work for all involved) but I missed the part where Zulu looked directly into the camera and apologized personally for his insulting blog and also in the name of the company he's representing for acting in such an insulting way toward their customers.
Too much "smug" and "job well done" and not enough "we suck for screwing up so badly in the first place, please forgive us and we hope we can earn your trust again sometime in the future". And just a word of advice: next time, talk to us (the people paying for those 1000$ pants) before you release the 70$ monocle. There would have been a **** storm even then but at least you could have simply said: "take it easy guys, we're only talking with you to get your opinions.. of course we'd never release such a horrendously overpriced virtual eye piece! lol... we just wanted to see how you'd react! lol *sweat*".
tl;dr: Am I overjoyed? No. Am I happier then before I read the blog? Yes. Will I resub? Probably, if I like what I see in the upcoming dev blogs. Will I be watching CCP like a hawk from now on? Definitely.
- Alissa
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:12:00 -
[89]
**** you and your $68 Micro Transactions.
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Red Twilight
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Red Twilight on 02/07/2011 17:13:06 -2 accounts.
I do not buy your fluff. This answer is cleverly packaged bs. If you want me and others than update the game based on expanding spaceships. Incarna and its ilk will only ever disappoint and give little functionality. This is internet spaceships, not idle doing emotes in some Casino room. |
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Anakin Pubcrawler
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 -
[91]
Partial victory - maybe. Too much trust has been lost. CCP are out of jail but on parole, they get no benefit of the doubt in future.
My main will resub - paying using a few plex in have in store not cash. Alts will remain unsubbed. At the first sign of a game effecting item in the MT store I walk without looking back or further comment.
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 -
[92]
big wall of text, hardly any content
when is pvp getting fixed?
snipers? probes? rockets? blasters? webs?
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Sven Jaeger
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 -
[93]
Satisfied. Will resub.
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Van Doren
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:13:00 -
[94]
Ok!
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Tester128
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:14:00 -
[95]
Nice to see resolution at last. Still, for a sufficently paranoid reader the statement from CCP leaves a clear loophole
Quote:
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
this essentialy means that a HeX store next door to NeX is not in any way bound by this statement.
I would say this need some more rewriting
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St'oto
Elite Predators
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:14:00 -
[96]
I'm glad everything has been settled and I do hope you guys stick to your word! But I have to say, now how was that so hard?
Anyways all hail the CSM! Damn fine job, and I hope CCP lives up to what they are saying. Good job on all fronts in proper communication. Now keep it up!
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:14:00 -
[97]
I am disappointed to have waited all this time for CCP to bring the CSM there to make promises that are only worth the time they last before CCP goes back on them.
I'd imagine that the delay was to build up 'evidence' that they had no plans for non vanity items or proof that they were 'debating' non vanity items as an intellectual point for no reason other than fun. Time and money, man hours, etc wasted in thought exercises about EVE, Dust, WOD for nothing. No mention from CCP about the Email message and the tone it conveyed about the view of players when added to all we've seen is terribly disappointing.
I'd add all that time to get their messaging right and they've still left many things vague instead of saying we never want to introduce pay for advantage or build up convenience service sales, they tie it conditionally to the NEX store. Would *I* be satisfied if they had been that clear in telling us their vision of EVE and what it should and will NEVER be, probably not, after all I will look to what they DO and not what they SAY.
I see no mention of the $99 fiasco, the gold scorpion, or answers to why CCP ignored or decided to not make use of the CSM in getting some feedback as to their 'awesome' and 'fun' plans.
TLDR: Lots of fluff, almost no real answers, but the 'promise' so many addicts to EVE have been begging for. Here's hoping the game I love doesn't have its days numbered.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Kumq uat
Gallente Guiding Hand Social Club Dystopia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:15:00 -
[98]
Re-Subbed but still not trusting. Part of me feels like the girl who gets beaten by her boyfriend and then comes back when he promises he will change. Don't hit us again! --------------------------------------- www.eve-pirate.com original author |
Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:15:00 -
[99]
Quote: and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
Clarification required !!
Does that mean once performance is seen as similar, the option will be removed and we will after all be FORCED to use CQ ??? |
Gloria Stitz
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[100]
-2 accounts
CQ isn't being made permanently optional :(
No guarantee on p2w
No commitment on improving the real gameplay, just more barbie in space ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
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BtodaC
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[101]
Good job, but can you take the silly music (muzak) out of the backgound of the video, it makes the video seem more like some kind of love scene rather than a sober, bland discussion. Did you want it to seem like it was recorded in an elevator?
The CSM's also claimed to have discussed the $99 developers fee, can we get a little more detail about this issue as neither statements address it.
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Wheelhaus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Dracnys VERY happy to see this end well. Great job by both the CSM and CCP for clearing up the mess after the Incarna release. EVE has been through many valleys and this is the deepest but it's driven by so many people's deep passion that it'll master all challenges. EVE forever!
+1 Thank you CCP and CSM for clearing this up, and thank you for ensuring no "pay-to-win" tactics will be implemented.
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Mr R4nd0m
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[103]
so please answer
When are you going to actually work on eve and bring out decent expansions, rather than spending all OUR money on WoD and Dust? When are you going to FIX eve? Why wasnt the financial situation addressed?
sick of this NDA crap..basically as always everything gets brushed under the carpet...
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Vikarion
Caldari State Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[104]
You guys make me very, very happy. Re-subbing. Also, I'll buy at least one thing from the NEX store. - - -
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Andreas Finn
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[105]
I would like to thank the CSM members for taking the time to fly out to Iceland on our behalf and represent our views, and also to thank CCP for resolving this issue via the CSM. We all know how chaotic and single-issue the forums can become, and if the CSM/CCP meeting has cut through some of the noise and addressed real (i.e of concern to many rather than the vocal few) issues, then it has served it's purpose well.
Personally I think that the Vanity/Advantage issue was at the core of the Incarna protests, and I am satisfied that the CSM/CCP have reached an understanding regarding the playerbase's feelings on this one. As a single client user I cannot comment on the issues with multi-client performance, but it seems that this also has been addressed to some extent.
Good job all.
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Cade Windstalker
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[106]
*Slow clap*
Very nice, good to see this **** storm wrapped up better and more quickly than the one about a year ago.
Feature request: Get the head of the CSM an easy button for this stuff. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For such an intelligent player base the level of stupidity that people will put forth as fact neve |
Neville Smit
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:16:00 -
[107]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
I am satisfied.
Kudos to the CSM for representing the views of EVE players.
----------------------------------------- New EVE player? Join me in Eve University! |
Inka Tsarifi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:17:00 -
[108]
So buying time with your carefully worded answer... I'm still out.
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Eriam JH
Gallente Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:17:00 -
[109]
Why--exactly--did this take 1-1/2 weeks? Oh well, good enough for me. Resubbing account X 3.
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Alexandra Alt
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:17:00 -
[110]
"There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store." The crux is, there is no statement if there WILL be, I'm pleased with the meeting and the statement, though, still vague as to what future holds regarding the NeX store and non-vanity items. Judging from the video, I can only understand there was negotiation, therefore, intention of things CCP wanted to implement and CSM wouldn't want to or vice versa, and my 'Conspiracy Theory' side of myself allied to the omission of the 'There will be no plans for game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store' in the oficial statement leave me to believe in the long run that's what we will see. My hopeful and naive side of me hopes my 'Conspiracy Theory' side is wrong....
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:17:00 -
[111]
I am ok with this. Good work CSM. It isn't all I hoped for but it is enough. The really important thing is that we don't get non-vanity items. I will wait for a while before I resub, I want to see ship-spinning and future blogs explaining more about the NEX. Even if things sounds good, this far it's just words.
BTW, the video was a good idea IMO.
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Ehnea Mehk
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:17:00 -
[112]
I'm satisfied with the announcement and congratulate both CCP and CSM for tackling the issues. I hope this serves as the starting point to a better relationship with us players.
Ehnea Ehnea Mehk
ODATRIK Integrated Solutions |
Saving Face
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:18:00 -
[113]
So if there haven't been plans for non-vanity items, does that mean a spawnable golden Scorpion is not a vanity item even if the store can't do trade-ins yet?
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:18:00 -
[114]
Ok while I'm overall satisfied with this outcome. I am disappointed that we didn't get answers to the question of freeing the political prisoners (Particularly Helicity since DIAF is no more a threat than telling someone to **** off.). No good definition of what they consider vanity no assurance of how they're going to avoid the slippery slope.
I'm also less than pleased that no mention was made of the reducing of the 50 saved fits limit in the Fitting Management tool. I find this one particularly annoying since it has had a serious negative affect on my enjoyment of the game and CCP has never addressed this pointlessly impractical limit then to see it mentioned in the Fearless document as a potential opportunity to bilk us for more money both confirmed that CCP was well aware of the problem and rather than doing the logical thing and upping the limit they were instead saving it as a feature they could charge for.
My accounts will remain unsubbed for the time being, I'd just had a 3 month subscription renew a couple days prior to the Incarna release so I'll be keeping a close eye on how CCP moves forward from here to use in my decision making process when the time to resub comes up.
To CCP here are two things I'd still like to see dealt with.
Saved fitting limit in fitting management bump it up to something reasonable.
Re-consider the bans of prominent community members granting the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to grant you.
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Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:18:00 -
[115]
Quote: The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
Great, but sympathy doesn't make anyone want to invest time and effort into an MMO. If someone does something wrong, then they should apologise. Should we expect an apology anytime soon?
And what about the entire introduction of MT to begin with? We were told that MT would never come to EVE, and now it is here, how are we to believe that CCP won't simply 180 on the promises made in this statement like they did with MT? How can we hold CCP to their word when MT still exists within EVE and now the CSM are on board with it?
Each monocle sold is not only a reminder of a broken promise, but a $60 exercise in the delusional belief that a virtual monocle is just as important and valuable as a real one.
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Jedek
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:18:00 -
[116]
This still doesn't sit well with me. Primarily because the lack of dealing with the leaked email. Csm had a brief bit in their statement about disappointment with it but nothing more. Even with everything else that was clarified and said the guy at the top is always going to be the one that drives the company vision. How can you honestly expect things to run smoother in the future when hilmar is still there? While this may quell a lot of fears it hasn't quelled mine. Good luck.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:18:00 -
[117]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
That's exactly what you said before "Fearless" too. CCP Soundave designer "In Space" and massive force for MT. Well, I guess nothing changed.
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St'oto
Elite Predators
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:19:00 -
[118]
Edited by: St''oto on 02/07/2011 17:22:41 I will say though that I'm still a bit hesitant on believing them. But I guess time will tell. I have one account subbed and I'll wait awhile before my second account becomes active.
EDIT: When is the skills gonna be fixed? Both of my accounts are mainly PVP toons so I would like to be able to..... you know.... pew pew ****.
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Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:19:00 -
[119]
Awww, you locked 'the thread' just a few posts shy of 500. Tsk.
My faith in CCP will return SoonÖ We'll watch what you do not what you say.
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Warmaster Abaddonn
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:19:00 -
[120]
Ban Riverini!
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Nika Maskirovka
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:19:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Nika Maskirovka on 02/07/2011 17:20:57
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Lots of wiggle room here. What is an unfair advantage? I would also like to know exactly what CCP's definition of "game breaking" items are... Just copy the big yellow question and answer with a "NO", please!
Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date.
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP do and less of what they say. (And on that note, it would have been nice to get a statement from CCP about the leaked email...)
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Captain Futur3
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:19:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Captain Futur3 on 02/07/2011 17:19:45 cause my other thread has been locked. I await an answer in this thread
I think a lot of people miss the quality of Eve expansions. We all know that most of the income we, the Eve players, bring CCP, is put into 2 other games and therefore Eve expansions are not even major patches of common other MMOs. Shouldnt this change finally so that we can tell other non Eve players about the "2-free-expansions-a-year" feature without that they laugh at us? A very clear indicator for how little CCP is working on Eve are:
- 1 out of 4 quarters in several years of developement in this expansion we were told years ago - 2 new ship models in 3 expansions (scorp and maller) - engine trails and old cyno effect need several expansion times to introduce while everyone (even CCP) want to bring them back - sound engine and effects are poor
I understand that CCP wants to expand and that developing another game is a good way to do this, but actually it feels that all the 3 or 4 Eve developers are sitting somewhere in the basement with no light, slow PCs and 15" monitors, playing card games.
In the time where no Dust or WoD was on the horizon you managed to replace "ALL!!!" ship hulls, stations and star gates. Sure this has been done in more than one expansion developement time, but still, with the actual speed they wont be able to remodel only the cruiser class ships in the next 10 years and this simply feels as if we are paying for something that is dead already and no one cares about.
GIVE EVE MORE LOVE! PROVE THAT YOU CAN BETTER AND REGAIN OUR TRUST!
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Saving Face
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Nukleanis If someone does something wrong, then they should apologise. Should we expect an apology anytime soon?
You're quoting the CSM part of the statement, Mittens can hardly apologise for Hilmar. The CCP part only acknowledged they could have handled communication after the leaks better.
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Ianus
Caldari Geminus Gateway
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[124]
Edited by: Ianus on 02/07/2011 17:20:40
Originally by: CCP (...) The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu. (...)
Make it within the next 2 months and save yet another subscription. Also a devblog with details on "some form" would not go unrewarded. (with TP)
Edit: TP = Trust Points, obviously.
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Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Juan Sezole Okay now someone please explain why, a week ago, this could not have been stated
...
Incarna launch Storm hits Hilmer tells everyone to hold firm ... Finance starts to see the unsub numbers and tells them to sort it out CCP folds ...
That is exactly what I think happened.
Anyway, water under the bridge at this point. Let's allow them the face-saving and and move on.
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Arja Marketta
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Skex Relbore Re-consider the bans of prominent community members granting the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to grant you.
Seems reasonable.
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[127]
I am glad that things were, so far as we can see, resolved at the extraordinary meeting. But there is still one question that makes some of us (and yes, not only me. Us. I've seen more than a fair share of people with the same question). Ship Spinning.
What we are basically asking for, is Dock > Hangar > Button to disembark (CQ). But, from my understanding of what was agreed upon, it is going to be Dock > Captain's Quarters > Option to go Ship Spinning?!
Is that it?
I hope not.. hope it was just a misunderstanding.. We don't want hangar view back because "ship spinning" was "kewl".
We want hangar view back because it was FAST. We could just dock; double-click our ship's for cargohold; drag ship from the Ship's Hangar to the main-screen to activate it; it made total sense; it didn't break immersion.
THEN, after we docked up and went to the hangar, if we wanted to enter Captain's Quarters we could just hit a "disembark" button.
"But then our players wouldn't have any real reason to enter the Captain's Quarters!!!". Well, we have no reason to BE at the Captain's Quarters at the moment.. because the Captain's Quarters doesnt do anything!
So i hope that CCP does NOT plans on bringing hangar view back, on the condition that one has to go through the Captain's Quarters FIRST, because not only would that be pointless, it would be an even further failure of communication/understanding on part of CCP. What we obvioulsy want is the other way around. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Dierdra Vaal
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[128]
It is comforting to see CCP hold true on their word and not extend the NeX past vanity items. It is however sad that it had to come to such a public outcry before this clear message was given - especially when CCP does have the CSM at their disposal (but for whatever reason did not use it).
I would like to know more details about what incarna related performance issues were discussed and what agreements were reached. A lot of players are reporting heating issues and significantly longer loading times, so this is an issue of real concern.
Veto #205 * * * Director Emeritus at EVE University * * * CSM1 delegate, CSM3 chairman and CSM5 vice-chairman
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:20:00 -
[129]
CCP is now locking down all threads related to this. Time to silence the community eh ccp? "look no more massive threadnaughts, everyone is happy now" nice try gadaffi
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StarRanger
Gallente Royal Star Ranger Family
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[130]
So is CCP going to take the CSM people more into the outcome of future expansions? Because it is a good thing to see how it doesnt go well when there is a lack of communication
Also, good calling of CCP to take the time with the CSM and tackle the situation.
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Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[131]
Thanks for the response, however I am shocked that it has taken this much furore and time (inc. an extraordinary summit) to respond to a series of very simple questions that could have been answered succinctly within 24 hours of this whole debacle occuring.
Furthermore I am hugely disappointed that although the MT issues have been somewhat addressed, there is no mention or discussion whatsoever of where the development/investment in Eve has gone and when we can look forward to fixes/content (of the spaceship flying variety).
Is 2013 still a fair assessment of when we can see any upgrades that are not walking in stations oriented?
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[132]
Edited by: RougeOperator on 02/07/2011 17:22:21 Response of CCP and CSM confirms that eve is dead. CSM are sellouts. Will not be re-subbing.
"plans"
Yeah like there were no plans for MT at all.
For all that think this is the end. Its not its only the beginning. The crossed the line in the sand on to many times.
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[133]
Originally by: CCCP Supersmug CCP is now locking down all threads related to this. Time to silence the community eh ccp? "look no more massive threadnaughts, everyone is happy now" nice try gadaffi
No links fromt he devblog to this thread.
It WOULD be nice if this sticky was in Gen where 98% of posts occur....
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Psychlo
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[134]
Sandbox is safe. . I am satisfied.
So long as it stays that way I have no issues.
Thank you all for FINALLY reporting this.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Ensnry Rejoice Brothers, This is a day we won against the tyranny!
What did you win?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:21:00 -
[136]
Most pleased to see that each and everyone of my predictions have come true, even the far-fetched "return of the spin".
Amazing what the analytical mind can do when following logic and common sense. Yeah, I am THAT good.
/me pats herself on the back.
PS: Exorbitantly priced goods are awesome, but not as only option at introduction. Walk into any retail store and you see the same thing, smaller cheaper (the volume sales) are close to entrance and bigger more expensive stuff is further in (where escape from sales personnel is harder ). That was the biggest and only failure as far as I am concerned.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:22:00 -
[137]
the only thing not well enough addressed for me is the high cost of NeX items. The NeX store still does not meet the definition of "microtransactions"
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Atreus Venom
Gallente New Eden Hitmen
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:22:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Atreus Venom on 02/07/2011 17:22:47 i might subscribe but perpetuum is really fun º--Atreus--º A New Hope -- like my layout? lol Signature removed. Advertising other games through your signature is not permitted. |
Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:22:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Saving Face So if there haven't been plans for non-vanity items, does that mean a spawnable golden Scorpion is not a vanity item even if the store can't do trade-ins yet?
That was a design defect, one they were fine pushing out because it wouldn't have mattered or been significant despite the fact that it magicked a ship into existence it was 'cool' with CCP. Plus it was 'fun' and people want to have 'fun' and CCP would be working on making that store work right sooner or later so no sweat.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Yoichiro Nambu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:23:00 -
[140]
well done i'd say
the only concern i have right now still is that leaked email from the ceo, but i guess i'll try just to forget i ever read it |
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Andweeas
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:23:00 -
[141]
/satisfied
Sorry you went through hell with this, CCP, but hey, work on the communication and everything will be fine.
o/ |
Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:23:00 -
[142]
Release the Devs, We want to hear from the Devs
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Ianus
Caldari Geminus Gateway
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Arja Marketta
Originally by: Skex Relbore Re-consider the bans of prominent community members granting the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to grant you.
Seems reasonable.
Indeed.
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Farrisen
Caldari Nth Dimension
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[144]
/me is satisfied
Originally by: CCP Spitfire It's because of falcon.
Originally by: Korinne People used to say that Incarna would come out when Duke Nukem Forever comes out.
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Orpheus Ovid
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[145]
Thank you
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Mail Lite
FLA5HY RED The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[146]
o this isn't a troll.
The Dev Blog and CSM statement really did answer pretty much every question that the forum *****s like myself were worried about.
As long as you guys keep to your word and keep the NEX store as vanity only then I am more than happy to continue paying for my accounts.
However take this as a warning. The people that play EvE are not your general gamers, they put alot of work and effort into making this game what it is andhave quite an emotional attachment to it.
From the miners who supply the ore, the industralists who make the ships to the missioners who buy them and the PVP pilots who blow them up. It is a big circle of players that keeps this game running so well.
Make sure you communicate with us players and if we have a genuine conern that makes the whole shard universe shout in one voice that something needs to be done... Don't take a week to make it right.
I also hope that you understand that alot of people have invested alot of time into EvE online and would ask that you think about those who were banned for outbursts in this troubled time.
Helicity Boson for one. He has set up events within EvE that have made headlines and is a valuable asset to EvE and CCP and I hope that the ban can be lifted. I implore CCP to see that over the last week a number off emotions were running high and that you will grant those who spoke out passionatly leinency.
So again I say well done and thank you to the CSM and a well done to CCP (even though it took you a long time to get your act together) and I hope that you will reconsider some of the permanent exiles that have occured during this time.
Fly Dangerous o/
Mail Lite Fla5hy Red
Fla5hy Red Founding Member |
Dr Valeri
Royal Khanid Engineering
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[147]
Glad this worked out fine: no "gold ammo". Thanks CCP and the CSM!
Nex pricing, CQ, no spinning I couldn't care less about.
Now I am off to buy a monocle
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[148]
Honestly, this blog far exceeded any expectation I had. I expecting more spinning (except ship spinning) and no straight answers. Instead we finally got an unequivocal answer to 'the big yellow question.' People will get their old hangar back, lower-priced items will appear in the NeX store, etc. Seriously, this was a dream come true.
No, I'm not that naive. I'm fair certain the CCP brass suffered a major disconnect with their playerbase, and that it took a near catastrophe for them to see it. But I'm also equally convinced they got the message.
To quote from the very applicable Portal song, Still Alive,
"This was a triumph. I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS!"
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:24:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Anakin Pubcrawler Partial victory - maybe. Too much trust has been lost. CCP are out of jail but on parole, they get no benefit of the doubt in future.
My main will resub - paying using a few plex in have in store not cash. Alts will remain unsubbed. At the first sign of a game effecting item in the MT store I walk without looking back or further comment.
Yeah its a load of crock and nothing of significance was achieved by the CSM other then showing us they can get drunk.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:25:00 -
[150]
A few days ago, I was asked what I predicted the outcome of all this to be.
Here was my reply:
Quote: What do I expect to happen next?
Fair question.
1: I expect at the CSM meeting some of the future plans for the NeX will be spelled out in more detail.
2: I expect that those future plans will include items/services that while not strictly non-vanity items are also far from pay-to-win scenario's. One example would be to use AURUM to buy player owned store fronts/bars where players can earn ISK from their establishments, or similar proposals. Thus explaining why there has been no blanket no non-vanity item statement as that would also cover those goods/services.
3: I expect them to firmly state that MT will remain part of their overall plan, and why.
4: I expect them to outline why the NeX items released so far are very high dollar. I suspect it has to do with keeping demand reasonable at first so as not to send too many ripples through the PLEX market.
5: I expect them to reinforce that the views of the player base do have value to them, and point out some of the many examples where they have heeded that advice. I would also not be surprised if they (hopefully tactfully, LOL) pointed out that while the feedback has value, it can not be allowed to directly dictate corporate policy. I also expect them to point out the reason for Hilmar's email, that the only feedback they can really rely on in this situation is what the players do... mainly because of the heavy trolling that has been occurring on the forums surrounding this issue on both sides.
6: I expect them to give a rough timeline of the next steps in the MT process. At least as far as they can without compromising themselves through any possible leaks to their competition.
7: And finally (yes this is cynical and catty of me) I expect that as this information is revealed part of the forum community will declare victory and pat themselves on the back for keeping CCP in line. I expect the rest of the forum community to get to work trying their best to theory craft the worst possible what-if scenarios possible... partially out of habit, partially to preserve their sense of dignity.
That's the main points, we'll see how close I am when it's over.
Pretty darn close if I do say so myself, especially my last point.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
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Mater Dolorosa
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:25:00 -
[151]
When will CCP invest on Eve instead of Incarna ?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:25:00 -
[152]
Well.
What they do, not what they say.
Guess they'll have until the winter expansion to proof they're not just making empty promises. It's really about time EVE got its content fixed and features finished. --------
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Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:25:00 -
[153]
Originally by: CCP Navigator The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle.
Im having difficulty taking that at face value.
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Attaia
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:25:00 -
[154]
They lied once ("no microtransactions evar"), they will do it again, you'll see.
But my main concern is this:
Quote: "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
What I can read here is that we're good for some time, but eventually we will be forced do play space barbie. Thanks, but no thanks.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:26:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
Notice that there is a difference between saying there will be no microtransactions, and saying that there are no plans for microtransactions. Last year at this time, CCP probably DIDN'T have any plans to introduce microtransactions.
As for myself, the only thing that I care about is clear and honest communication between the players and CCP. I could care less about microtransactions, so long as the game is fun to play.
So next year or next patch if some game altering MT comes into play you will still assume CCP had no plans for it?
What is the expiration date for this statement:
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
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TalonClark
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:26:00 -
[156]
Edited by: TalonClark on 02/07/2011 17:28:00 The sad realization of ALL of this? It will never be as before.
Once trust is broken, it takes time to get it back. You stretched my willingness to trust you over the past 2 years, and cut the last line of trust pretty clean off last week.
Now, even if the CSM-Meeting + Statements are well drafted, and i "should" be happy about it, i am not really. Why? Because its just words. Its words that i heard on other topics before, and words that contradicted everything shortly later.
So, regaining trust will be difficult, and tbh, i can' tell you what i will do. For me, personally, how you communicated not only officially (pretty arrogantly), but also internally (much more so, to see how you really think your customers should be treated) was very very dishearting.
Well, good luck to us all, or we will lose a cool community game because trust was broken.
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Vim
Spiritus Draconis
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:26:00 -
[157]
Basicly a huge confirmation of what the levelheaded and rational people kept saying on the forums while the tinfoiled trolls were running around with torches and tar.
Looking forward to another ten years of eve.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:26:00 -
[158]
Given that these short posts address many of the questions we had some faith has been restored, there is some wiggle room in the wording though. I'll keep my accounts unsubbed for now, to see what road CCP has ahead for us, but this is a step in the right direction.
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Fiye Tao
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:27:00 -
[159]
Overall, my confidence is restored in CCP's ability to maintain the EVE sandbox.
What has been said in the blog about the ability to purchase (non-vanity) items appears to leave room for purchase of in-game equipment such as ships and ammo that would normally come from a manufacturer. This presents a problem, one that is obvious enough to make me confident CCP would find a way to make it work with the current EVE concept before implementation.
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Dryderian Vex
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:27:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Dryderian Vex on 02/07/2011 17:28:18 I am disappointed.
The statements in text and video from the "involved Parties" look like they are trying to walk through a minefield without hitting one. No clear statements without the words "at the moment", "intentions", "were and have no plans", "I think " -there will never be non vanity items in the NEX store is a statement that wasn't made.
A big bubble of nothingness which fits perfectly into the "line of events".
Nothing about the future of Eve.
So, we have now to trust some guys, called CSM, which know some things and say "The things we know are not bad, we've seen things and heard things."
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Jeff Severasse
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:27:00 -
[161]
Just like CCP stated they are watching what we do and not what we say...
CCP now, more then ever probably, we are going to be watching what you do now that we have seen what you have to say.
PLEASE dont F*** up! I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!
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Epiphany Achura
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:28:00 -
[162]
I am satisified...
I have written a bit on this topic. More importantly I have trolled the monocle-touting trolls (Butterdog) which was fun.
Whether, CCP never intended to implement P2W or have re-evaluated their position post Monoclegate is immaterial. We have been assured that our game is secure; you can't ask for more than that. Any further negative posting on the subject will be non-productive and would invalidate all that you protestors accomplished.
With the upcoming new line of vanity items I would still like a muzzle for my Butterdog...he has two monocles..did you know that?
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Arja Marketta
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:28:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Renan Ruivo So i hope that CCP does NOT plans on bringing hangar view back, on the condition that one has to go through the Captain's Quarters FIRST, because not only would that be pointless, it would be an even further failure of communication/understanding on part of CCP. What we obvioulsy want is the other way around.
I suspect they are going to try to implement ship spinning *within CQ* (ie. put rotate left/right arrows on the balcony, or just the ability to click and drag-rotate the ship).
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Assagai Invari
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:28:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Nukleanis If someone does something wrong, then they should apologise.
This.
CCP's statement doesn't contain a single reference that can be construed as, "Sorry guys."
Good result though, my closet door won't last forever.
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Oberine Noriepa
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:28:00 -
[165]
Very satisfied.
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Aessaya
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:29:00 -
[166]
Well, i'm happy there are attempts to restore the broken trust between devs and the playerbase, however only time will tell if it works or any real actions are taken to rectify the situation. Thus i will not resub just yet, since my accounts are still valid till september. We'll see then. Although i will stop raging for a while =]
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Freddie Failquitter
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Freddie Failquitter on 02/07/2011 17:29:51 So is this the part where all the failquitters who failed to quit "come out" and say they decided not to quit?
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Chimaera Abaddon
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[168]
I'm honestly not sure about this. Going to digest it for a few days.
The things that concern me:
CCP did not address Hilmar's e-mail... at all. That isn't a small thing for me, if the leader of a company has that little respect for it's customers and there's not an apology, let alone even a mention of it, that's not good. It doesn't matter how much I trust the others in the company, if the person with ultimate power has that negative of an attitude and there's no accountability or conscience for it.
There will no doubt be the dismissal by many of concern for the wording, but "plans for" also seems a very weak commitment. (Especially in light of the referenced discussion on MT as a whole from just a year ago) Even if future changes are floated by the CSM, would they even be permitted to tell us it was coming due to the NDA? Not wearing a tinfoil hat, that's just the natural state of the mechanism.
Regarding the "Fearless" newsletter. I'll accept it's meaningless, but I'm curious as to an explanation for why the newsletter exists if it's meaningless and no one reads/pays any regard to it. And as well, why the subject of non-vanity MT was being discussed. It just seems somewhat... nutty, to have something pointless created to argue pointless subjects just so controversial ideas get expressed... which no one pays attention to anyway. Which is what seems to be what's being said.
P.S. Thanks to the CSM for their work.
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TripodAl
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[169]
Better news indeed.
Still yes / no would have been good enough.
Given the progression from no MT to Vanity MT taking approximately 1 year.
Im going out on a limb that we will need to make our voices heard once more.
In about one year.
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Silas Cooper on 02/07/2011 17:31:13 We're back in business, Plex applied to one of my alt accounts (had 3 days left). If the non-vanity statement they made today would change we want to know AS it's in the planning stages, not when it's close to release as EVE is a long term game. I don't want to commit time&money to a product I can't believe in so I'd like to be told as it's being worked on.
We'll just have to trust CCP&CSM to keep us informed on this bit. And again; why was this so difficult for CCP to get it right in one go, last week? I'm still not entirely happy that Hilmar himself didn't step up, especially after that atrocious email of his.
P.S. The CSM's blog was much better in many ways than the CCP one, obviously have to discard the CSM's opinion on stuff but even then; way better.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
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Sister Ana
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[171]
Very satisfied. Good job!
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:30:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Janos Saal on 02/07/2011 17:31:43 I'm satisfied for now. Enough to resub my one account. Any movement on this issue by CCP will prompt me to re-evaluate my position.
I expect CSM will be fully included in any future internal "debate" on these issues.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:31:00 -
[173]
Originally by: CSM We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
Missed the point much?
We wanted to choose when we disembarked, have you been reading the threads?
Robert, I'm disappointed.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Rixiu
The Inuits
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:31:00 -
[174]
Not a step in the right direction more like the way you lift your feet before you take the step.
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where I look at what CCP do and less of what they say." - Modified Hilmar quote.
tl;dr: not resubbing any of my accounts until shipspinning is back (how hard can it be?) because that is a real step in listening to the players and not just talk.
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Inipinipocoloco
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:31:00 -
[175]
sounds good, reads good
my subs will not be cancelled
but room for future tolerance became very very small
the band of trust between ccp and the eve community is under high tension now and it wont survive another debacle like this
but the community rocks!
eve forever 8)
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:31:00 -
[176]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 02/07/2011 17:31:16
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Does that mean the Ishukone Watch Scorpion that would have been spawned from the Nex-Store from nothing - that is, completely circumventing the whole player-driven economy - is not considered to be game breaking?
Does this imply that buying ships with standard characteristics directly from the store will be (re)introduced at some point, since this was planned and obviously CCP never planned to sell anything game breaking so doing this won't be game breaking?
Besides the return of ship spinning I fail to see anything new in there. No idea why you think you accomplished anything with this stunt.
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Rikon Nightroad
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:32:00 -
[177]
Am I the only one that thought that the video was...weak? No real issues were really hit on. They gave a medium answer that they're not planning any evil shenanigans as far as the MT go, but how about CQ? How about performance?
The statement says that we'll be provided with "Similar" environments as the pre-Incarna Hanger. What if I want it back completely? What if the most I like out of the walking Avatars is his picture. I dont need any more than that. I -like- multiboxing on one machine.
I'm sure the majority of the people are glad that no gold ammo is being implemented. I'm happy with that issue as well. But considering how lacking the statement and the video were in other information, I'm disappointed. |
John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:32:00 -
[178]
Thank you for this blog and thank you to the CSM for their time and effort put in to this, especially since they had short notice. Thank you also to CCP for listening but we'll be judging you by your actions.
Couple of questions:
Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
This is a bit vague. Could it be explained, in lamens terms, why this cannot be quickly reintroduced and CQ be accessible only though an "exit" button, please?
Quote: Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.
This is even more vague. Can we have a follow up blog to outline what CCP have in mind, please?
Finally, CCP you might want to consider having a Community Manager whose talents lie in communication rather than programming. Being direct as Arnar is doesn't always come across well in text
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
Athellant Nardieu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:33:00 -
[179]
If it's not against the NDA, can CCP or CSM explain this section more.
Quote:
We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
What grey areas were discussed? If the NEX store is to be kept just to vanity items (clothing and ship skins), there shouldn't be any grey areas.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:33:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Dryderian Vex Edited by: Dryderian Vex on 02/07/2011 17:28:18 I am disappointed.
The statements in text and video from the "involved Parties" look like they are trying to walk through a minefield without hitting one. No clear statements without the words "at the moment", "intentions", "were and have no plans", "I think " -there will never be non vanity items in the NEX store is a statement that wasn't made.
A big bubble of nothingness which fits perfectly into the "line of events".
Nothing about the future of Eve.
So, we have now to trust some guys, called CSM, which know some things and say "The things we know are not bad, we've seen things and heard things."
Yeah its funny how all these people asying "YIPEE CCP ROCKS" seem to miss the glaringly obvious.
They actually think something other then BS PR was achieved.
Enjoy buying the snake oil. And enjoy the kool aid.
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Marthe Sirius
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:33:00 -
[181]
So the response to a lot of upset players is basically 'carry on as before'.
Nothing has changed except a lot of people are calling it a 'miracle' |
Goodwill City
Amarr The Society of Goodwill
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Assagai Invari
Originally by: Nukleanis If someone does something wrong, then they should apologise.
This.
CCP's statement doesn't contain a single reference that can be construed as, "Sorry guys."
In fairness Zulu did seem apologetic in the video. He actually seems alright but it's Hilmar I don't trust
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YarrMama
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[183]
Excellent statement and excellent work from CCP and CSM. Satisfied with what I read and glad this great game is going to remain so. Will resub now that my questions have been answered.
Good job guys.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/07/2011 17:34:41
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
Notice that there is a difference between saying there will be no microtransactions, and saying that there are no plans for microtransactions. Last year at this time, CCP probably DIDN'T have any plans to introduce microtransactions.
As for myself, the only thing that I care about is clear and honest communication between the players and CCP. I could care less about microtransactions, so long as the game is fun to play.
So next year or next patch if some game altering MT comes into play you will still assume CCP had no plans for it?
What is the expiration date for this statement:
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
As you are so fond of posting links to that thread, perhaps if you look at it closely you will see that each and every statement is given specifically as a response to questions concerning skills for micro transactions.
Even if we overlook your taking specific sentences out of the context of the discussion that was happening, MT weren't even a blip on the radar back then. It is highly likely that there was no internal discussion going on about them at that time.
Currently there is plenty of discussion about the topic, in very specific terms. Statements made by CCP are completely within the proper context and there can be no misunderstandings on what is being discussed.
This means that if CCP changes their minds on the issue, the DEV blog and video will instantly be brought up again to crucify them.
Time to stop beating the dead horse.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Ban Doga Edited by: Ban Doga on 02/07/2011 17:31:16
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Does that mean the Ishukone Watch Scorpion that would have been spawned from the Nex-Store from nothing - that is, completely circumventing the whole player-driven economy - is not considered to be game breaking?
Does this imply that buying ships with standard characteristics directly from the store will be (re)introduced at some point, since this was planned and obviously CCP never planned to sell anything game breaking so doing this won't be game breaking?
Besides the return of ship spinning I fail to see anything new in there. No idea why you think you accomplished anything with this stunt.
This. There are too many qualifiers in that statement.
"Game breaking" is the largest and most obvious.
"Plans" is difficult, too. There were no "plans" for MT one year ago. In one year they allegedly went from no plans, to planned, developed, and implemented, which seems extremely unlikely.
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Harden Long
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[186]
Plans change, vanity items don't sell at $70 a pop and CCP is hurting for cash. EVE will have P2W items in the CS, and it is heading down the slope of F2P. How long did Star Wars last ofter its NeX... err I mean NPE?
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Red Twilight
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[187]
Those who accept victory with no definitive timetable give up any power for effecting a positive change. You will be disappointed. Expect it. There has been no apology. The developers are just as out of touch and uncaring as ever, and you have given in with only a wink from CCP. |
Taipion
Caldari Operations Control United Pod Service
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:34:00 -
[188]
The whole of things that happened from Incarna to now basically only shows one thing:
CCP really messed up by evaluation their customers prior to a poorly executed move void of any professionalism at all.
Besides this, for CCP running tail between legs, for they simply need the money, I dont care why they do something, as long as it serves EVE, therefore...
+1
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:35:00 -
[189]
Originally by: John McCreedy Thank you for this blog and thank you to the CSM for their time and effort put in to this, especially since they had short notice. Thank you also to CCP for listening but we'll be judging you by your actions.
Couple of questions:
Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
This is a bit vague. Could it be explained, in lamens terms, why this cannot be quickly reintroduced and CQ be accessible only though an "exit" button, please?
Quote: Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.
This is even more vague. Can we have a follow up blog to outline what CCP have in mind, please?
Finally, CCP you might want to consider having a Community Manager whose talents lie in communication rather than programming. Being direct as Arnar is doesn't always come across well in text
oh god I know what they are going to do, they'll add a way to walk down to to your ship instead of watching it just out a window, its just so buggy/performing so poorly now they can't do it, you'll never escape spaceship barbie
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:35:00 -
[190]
Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?
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Fiye Tao
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:35:00 -
[191]
Originally by: CCP Zulu The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
It is this statement in particular, which is an acknowledgement of the core issue and fairly clear agreement with the EVE player base, that gives me hope. If anything, it's a concrete statement that we can hold CCP to.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:35:00 -
[192]
That was pretty much what I wanted to hear.
The only thing that made me angry was that CCP seemed to be refusing to answer the question that most of us were asking. Now they have, and pretty clearly. If they flip stances at some point people can always unsub again.
Anyways, thanks for clearing things up CCP. Try to be more direct in the future, all of this could've been avoided with a clear answer in the first place.
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Kane Molou
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:36:00 -
[193]
Any one else think that even the CSM appears to have things wrong, I mean watch the video and Mittens goes on about how this is all about the whole 'price' and 'pay to win' issue.. and yet this was never wholely about those or even Fearless they where the 'Spark' that lit the already near exploding boiler.
We have no firm anything, no reason for a half assed expansion, no reasoning for why we have a client that is now close to killing even Top of the line machines, No information on when we will ever get anything new from CCP..
The big issue here once again NDAs etc. We are what expected to just take on face value that CSM is not lieing that CCP is not lieing? Hello that = what started this in the first place.. Either there is a LOT more transperancy or come next resub i'm out with my 3 accounts.
All I know is that I'm tired of hearing that the issue is about 'Virtual Goods' it's not just VIRTUAL GOODS.
1. Fix the problem of you client causing machines to overheat. 2. Prove that your dedicated to fixing BUGS and Half Finished Objects. 3. Finish Incarna and make it a REAL expansion. 4. Promise that what we see avalible for NO money is not all we are going to get. 5. Fix the damned BUGS... 6. Have I said it yet.. oh that's right i have but.. Fix the Bugs and Half Finished Stuff you've released. 7. Oh and fix the unbalanced Super Caps while your at it.
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von Diel
Gallente The Tuskers
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:36:00 -
[194]
Considering they cost $1000, Zulu's trousers look fairly mundane...
More seriously, I'm pretty much happy with this, but I would have liked to have had more concrete dates for the replacement of the door, alongside some idea of when we'll see more spaceship related content.
Not sure if resubbing :/
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Marcus D'Eriellius
Gallente Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:36:00 -
[195]
Quote: The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
So rather than commit to fixing the heat and performance issues that they know exist, they have instead decided to raise the minimum spec requirement?
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Chibisuke
Gallente Children of Avalon
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:36:00 -
[196]
Even though I still think they should revert back to what they promissed... - "NO MT", I'm going to continue playing eve.
Won't resub however, going to switch to GTC/PLeX
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Casanunda
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:36:00 -
[197]
I can live with this result, 1 of my 2 accounts will be resubscribed on a monthly basis, the second shall stay unsubscribed until such time I can multibox without being able to cook dinner on my GPU.
Needless to say, the moment I see anything available in the Nex store that can be construed as game altering I shall walk away without a second thought.
I still don't trust CCP as far as I could launch them with a roflket launcher, but it's a step in the right direction to regaining the trust they lost through lack of communication since the release of Incarna.
I shall watch what they do, not what they say for the foreseeable future. --- CCP just shat in the sandbox, so they could try and sell us a gold plated shovel to remove said turd. :( |
Jonathan Priest
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[198]
This was a good answer. While eve certainly has other issues, these were the ones that had the potential to break the game.
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Ariel Nova
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[199]
Satisfied, for now.
Watching you like a hawk.
I never hated Incarna, I just hated how it was released unfinished.
You may have deadlines for WoD and Dust514, but don't forget how you got to where you could make those games.
Eve needs to remain a priority to CCP.
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ovenproofjet
Caldari Therapy.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[200]
Thank you to both CCP and the CSM for hashing this out.
Think it's time to get back to what Eve is really about; shooting people in the face!
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Cevin North
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[201]
Thank you CCP and CSM for following up on your word, and feeding us back the answers to our questions.
Much appreciated that this is done.
Finaly clearness.
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Karia Sur
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[202]
CCP, where is the official resub thread as you locked the obviously unofficial one?
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Silas Cooper
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:37:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Myz Toyou Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?
No, never.
-- You can't cure stupid. |
Chidori kun
Minmatar Starship Operating BastardZ
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:38:00 -
[204]
Although I am not sure about the statements I have read, they say a lot but not everything. No game breaking stuff in the store ok well it's a answer but it will not full satisfy people. But we will see.
2 days of meetings and this is what we hear still no answers about other stuff which is also game breaking. Bugs, balance, and a long list of stuff that you can find on the forums should have been addressed in these meetings. Which was the underling problem what made this "perfect storm" happen, it was not only what Incarna brought to us. Users felt like nobody listens to us, new fluffy stuff can be a good thing but when older problems are not addressed it just back fires in your face. And well yeah that was happening the last couple of weeks.
A quote from a movie comes to mind after reading the statements and watching the video...
"Listen, I'm a politician which means I'm a cheat and a liar, and when I'm not kissing babies I'm stealing their lollipops. But it also means I keep my options open."
Hunt for red October
Chid
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Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:38:00 -
[205]
Reasonably satisfied with the dev blog, can't get the video to work though, but re-subbing my alt account.
Remember its what ÇÇP does and not what they say so with that in mind I will be watching very closely as to what the actual new content being released from now on is, if its mainly MT stuff (even if its only vanity fluff) and little or no actual content/fixes I'll be on my merry way outta EVE. If the last week has thought me anything its that I can live without EVE .
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:38:00 -
[206]
Edited by: Raid''En on 02/07/2011 17:44:50 Edited by: Raid''En on 02/07/2011 17:40:39
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
can you say it again without talking about the NeX store only ? this can be easily read as "NeX store is only for vanity items BUT we may create other stores where we will provide non-vanity items"
if you were thinking it why did you never simply answered the big yellow question ? if it's only for advertisement issues, then you're doing it extremly wrong.
and i don't even talk about how CCP's text miss apologies while CSMs are pretty nice to you on their text. moreover Zulu don't talk much on the video, and he don't say anything except a little "yes" about MTs. given the goal of the video is to check reaction it's a bit ridiculous he don't talk more...
I'm not totally conviced for now. waiting for more infos.
Quote: CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
what ? that's all ? you're kidding right ?
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Athus
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:38:00 -
[207]
I am currently satisfied with the results. I think that they could have made some clearer statements on a few points but I think this is a win for now. But I think some folks are failing to realize something, We showed CCP that we care about this game and that if we feel they are about to really screw it up we will let them know. I think they got the message on that clearly. So.. they have made their statements.. time to watch what they do!!!
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Exordium8
Minmatar Operational Detachment-Alpha The 0rphanage
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:38:00 -
[208]
Now, was that so hard?
IF you only would answer my petition now... --------------------------------- Pillage, then burn. Everything is air-droppable at least once. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'time to reload.
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Haradriel Tian
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:39:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Janos Saal Edited by: Janos Saal on 02/07/2011 17:31:43 I'm satisfied for now. Enough to resub my one account. Any movement on this issue by CCP will prompt me to re-evaluate my position.
I expect CSM will be fully included in any future internal "debate" on these issues.
Like they were last time. LOL right.
Also the alts coming out of the woodwork to praise CCP is hilarious.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:39:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
It's very clear you completely missed the point, as far as CQ is concerned.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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J Unit
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:39:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
I missed the part where Zulu looked directly into the camera and apologized personally for his insulting blog and also in the name of the company he's representing for acting in such an insulting way toward their customers. - Alissa
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Erik Finnegan
Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 -
[212]
I am happy that we have an NGO-type player representation, the CSM, which sacrifices private time and puts a lot of effort into sorting out CCPs communication inability.
All is good in New Eden - and always has been.
The CSM helped CCP to let us know that it is. |
Epiphany Achura
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Freddie Failquitter Edited by: Freddie Failquitter on 02/07/2011 17:29:51 So is this the part where all the failquitters who failed to quit "come out" and say they decided not to quit?
Pointless failtroll -1/10
As someone who has not unsubbed and in the spirit of renconcilation between the player-base and CCP I will not engage in Troll Roasting(tm)
I will just shake my head and hope that one day they will set a mental age requirement for posting in the Eve forums...at which point you will be permabanned.
P.S. Butterdog and Mr. Epeen are successful and witty trolls, please check their previous posts and attempt to emulate their style. Yes, thank you
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 -
[214]
Sorry they can't redo the entire two days in a 10 minute discussion for you.
Originally by: Kane Molou Any one else think that even the CSM appears to have things wrong, I mean watch the video and Mittens goes on about how this is all about the whole 'price' and 'pay to win' issue.. and yet this was never wholely about those or even Fearless they where the 'Spark' that lit the already near exploding boiler.
We have no firm anything, no reason for a half assed expansion, no reasoning for why we have a client that is now close to killing even Top of the line machines, No information on when we will ever get anything new from CCP..
The big issue here once again NDAs etc. We are what expected to just take on face value that CSM is not lieing that CCP is not lieing? Hello that = what started this in the first place.. Either there is a LOT more transperancy or come next resub i'm out with my 3 accounts.
All I know is that I'm tired of hearing that the issue is about 'Virtual Goods' it's not just VIRTUAL GOODS.
1. Fix the problem of you client causing machines to overheat. 2. Prove that your dedicated to fixing BUGS and Half Finished Objects. 3. Finish Incarna and make it a REAL expansion. 4. Promise that what we see avalible for NO money is not all we are going to get. 5. Fix the damned BUGS... 6. Have I said it yet.. oh that's right i have but.. Fix the Bugs and Half Finished Stuff you've released. 7. Oh and fix the unbalanced Super Caps while your at it.
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:40:00 -
[215]
re: http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=935
Quoted from CCP statement on Microtransaction store
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis."
This is simply restating that which was said before but with some more spin.
"no plans" =/= will not (that "no plans" 'promise' has been broken before)
"game breaking" == wiggle-room rendering the rest meaningless
"investment of money...should not give you an unfair advantage...CSM,under NDA...agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle" == can be argued now that any for-advantage item can be traded for PLEX AFTER purchase.
Please wake up and engage brain before reading, sheeple. The whole content of those statements has just rephrased the same crud in a more palatable way.
Now past caring, enjoy watching the game spiral to the pits of pay2win in the future. If you think I'm exaggerating, ask yourself honestly why that wiggleroom and get-out clause was needed?
Ec out, and for good.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[216]
Good work from the CSM to deliver punches, good work from CCP to allow the CSM dishing out those punches.
Now let's see if action follows these fine words. |
Dirty Little Secrets
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[217]
Edited by: Dirty Little Secrets on 02/07/2011 17:43:08 I was hoping for something closer to this:
"We are greedy gits that were too busy lusting over $1000 blue jeans to realize how very far off base we have become as human beings. We apologize to humanity for being so offensive and tasteless. Furthermore we are removing all Micro Transactions from this game as our loyal customers already pay a monthly fee which should encompass all content. We are freezing development of WoD and Dust so that those developer man hours can be used to maintain and fix our primary source of income as a company, EVE Online. We admit to treating our flagship product as a red headed stepchild the past few years while we were off chasing rainbows making other products.
We understand that after years of neglect and empty promises that our words mean nothing to you, so we are offering you action. All items in the NEX store will now be available free of charge and it will be renamed to the Noble Dispensary as such. The old station environment will be implemented in clients that choose to disable CQ through check box as these assets already exist and are easy to implement. Many many more Space Ship type fixes are being fast tracked, such as Super capital Balancing, Assault Frigate Bonuses and Hybrid Weapon Balancing. Once again we understand that the community is reasonably cynical towards out promises. We look forward to surprising you all with our actions."
Instead I got something that I would expect from a White House press conference.
Try Again CCP.
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Jayem See
Caldari Extreme Freedom Corcoran State
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[218]
I'm pretty happy with the response as it is.
I think that the ship spinning issue needs attention sooner rather than later. As for the response to Hilmar's email......well there wasn't a response - they just acknowledged that people were irritated by it.
Overall I am pretty happy with the result - just a few clarifications needed around specifics.
Good work CSM - and CCP. Whatever - Not Interested TBH |
Whiny McEmokid
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[219]
I found this to be predictable feedback and will be looking more at what CCP do than what they say.
|
Hiroshima Jita
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[220]
Looks good.
Good job CCP, CSM.
|
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Leigh Hekki
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:41:00 -
[221]
Thanks for listening CCP. I'm glad you still are and I'm glad that Eve will continue.
Well done!
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Scerolikk Teromni
Atrocious Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[222]
Consider my two accounts resubbed, CCP. This could have been easily avoided by much clearer communication, but I think you realize that. Please don't get caught in any deceptions about what you said-but-didn't-really-promise about your plans for microtransactions. --
Quote:
Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
I feel bad for you, Logan airport sux.
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SerialTurd
APEX ARDENT COALITION C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[224]
Immediate questions were answered. As some have stated my new concern is future content.
Are we going to see more Incarna like expansions where the bulk of it is about walking in stations with little additions to space? If so, EVE will not survive.
Remember. This is all about internet space ships which are of the utmost importance. Walking in stations is at the bottom of that list and for many, not even on the list. Most could care less about it. Make sure your primary focus is and always will be the space content of Eve.
-Turd
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RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Marthe Sirius So the response to a lot of upset players is basically 'carry on as before'.
Nothing has changed except a lot of people are calling it a 'miracle'
Yup, let the sheeple rejoice.
CSM achieved nothing other then getting a free vacation for towing the CCP PR line.
That they are going along with the nex store pricing at all is alone insulting enough.
People claiming we won when we lost is hilarious.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[226]
Thanks to the CSM for flying out to represent the player base on such short notice.
Overall I'm satisfied with the response, and I'm willing to chalk up the Hilmar email as standard management "blowing sunshine up the worker's bees arses during a crisis" as a means of reassuring the worker bees that everything is all right, that there's nothing to see here, that management really is in control of the situation, and to not let the rioting adversely affect their cheery diligence to their jobs.
----- Request for Eve Development Roadmap. Let CSM know that we want one.
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Epiphany Achura
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Myz Toyou Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?
I don't think you need one, with that mohawk you are flashy enough. Less is more. However, try one out and make your own determination. There is a mirror in CQ.
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Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 17:44:41 It's a result but somewhat underwhelming.
I consider vanity items an integral part of gameplay, and if I am to pay a subscription, I expect the full game not just a subset of features.
Added to the lack of maintenance of EvE in general, the game isn't really worth the high subscription cost. You need to do better CCP, but I will check in occasionally to see if you are able to improve on things.
The more important questions, the lack of faith in CCP which I believe was a major reason for the exaggerated uprising seems to have been ignored completely.
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Spring Heeled Jim
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:42:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Spring Heeled Jim on 02/07/2011 17:43:23 The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time
So you could in theory still sell SP's.
As an example: You could maybe sell an SP boost that you could only buy once every six months, which would be less SP's than if you actually trained them. So time wins over money.
That probable makes no sense, but I know what I mean.
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Augustus Exterminatus
Caldari Blue Cosmos
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:43:00 -
[230]
Thank you, I was worried i would have to try another game. I look forward to continuing to enjoy this universe, and to doing business with a company who, although they do make mistakes, listen to their client base.
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Red Twilight
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:43:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Dirty Little Secrets "We are greedy gits that were too busy lusting over $1000 blue jeans to realize how very far off base we have become as human beings. We apologize to humanity for being so offensive and tasteless. Furthermore we are removing all Micro Transactions from this game as our loyal customers already pay a monthly fee which should encompass all content. We are freezing development of WoD and Dust so that those developer man hours can be used to maintain and fix our primary source of income as a company, EVE Online. We admit to treating our flagship product as a red headed stepchild the past few years while we were off chasing rainbows making other products.
We understand that after years of neglect and empty promises that our words mean nothing to you, so we are offering you action. All items in the NEX store will now be available free of charge and it will be renamed to the Noble Dispensary as such. The old station environment will be implemented in clients that choose to disable CQ through check box as these assets already exist and are easy to implement. Many many more Space Ship type fixes are being fast tracked, such as Super capital Balancing, Assault Frigate Bonuses and Hybrid Weapon Balancing. Once again we understand that the community is reasonable cynical towards out promises. We look forward to surprising you all with our actions."
Try Again CCP.
Quoted for truth.
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eniws yllis
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 -
[232]
Good to know all of this, time will be the only instrument in whether it all happens as planned or not.
Just a minor point though: the translation links are at the bottom of the page, by which time those who need them will probably have logged out....disappointed no doubt...maybe they should have been near the header?
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Scorpyn
Caldari Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 -
[233]
Ship spinning? Important? WTF?
Even important enough to get reintroduced???
Get your priorities straight.
Regarding the nex prices, imo 10% of the current prices would be expensive, and the current prices are simply ******ed. Adding more items at lower cost is not going to change that.
Imo, the captains quarters shouldn't have been introduced before the rest of the station stuff. Right now it's just a random addon that adds nothing to the actual gameplay.
Also, no left+right button zoom???
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Velu Mate
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Myz Toyou Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
the murder and plundering of Monocle wearers across New Eden shall commence at dawn every 3rd Tuesday of the month.
This day shall be known forever as Day of the Monocle! |
Lexia Stone
Soul Snatchers
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:44:00 -
[235]
Great job CCP, I think you handled this very well by inviting the CSM to discuss the issues instead of just dealing with them yourselves. They will tell you exactly what you need to hear, not just what you want to hear.
Thanks to our CSM for your hard work ensuring this game stays enjoyable and fun, and special thanks to The Mittani for keeping the CSM organized and focused on the real issues that had to be dealt with.
o7
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Lederstrumpf
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 -
[236]
"the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better"
Take note: The _reaction_ could have been _handled_ better.
No sorry at all about the content. The customer is to blame.
CCP obviosly did not get it.
1. "Good communication [..] BETWEEN CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP"
2. "communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs"
1. is what they promise, 2. is what they do.
Good communication is about asking and listening.
If you puke in front of somebody else's feet that's no communication.
CCP obviosly did not get it.
"The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning"."
They did need help to understand flattening out a 3D room into 1.5D and removing features such as ship activation via drag'n drop is a reduction in features and crippling the user interface?
CCP obviosly did not get it.
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
Thought you had translators over there?
"should" instead of "must" ?
Ha, ha, ha!
No word on how CCP plans to implement QA on their communication pathways.
Without diagnosing what went wrong within the internal/external communication and identifying single points of failure they'll **** up over and over again.
They did it in the past, they will do it in the future.
Priceless.
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Manos Heimenbarger
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 -
[237]
I reckon this is good enough to get me to resub... But know that I will be watching closely, and the day anything non-vanity shows up in an item shop, I'm out. This is a good step to restoring trust, but there is still a ways to go. Keep on the right path.
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Grimster
Reikoku Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:45:00 -
[238]
I'm satisfied. Although I was sceptical about the outcome, both sides have come to a grown-up and sensible agreement.
Definitive no gold ammo, vanity only. Promise to have a ship spinning dock.
These tick my boxes, though I probably won't resub again (at least for cash-money anyway) but nice to see the system in process.
GG everyone involved. _______________________________
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Leocadminone
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 -
[239]
"Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
"current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance"
Which part of "we were promised a PERMANENT opt out of Walking In Stations" does CCP insist on NOT UNDERSTANDING?
There are a LOT of us that have ZERO INTEREST in this "Sims in Space" visual fluff crap, and to be blunt about it this crap will NEVER match the speed and ease of use FROM A GAMEPLAY STANDPOINT of the non-WIS environment.
As far as *I* am concerned, the day "Walking in stations" is FORCED on Eve is the day I and all of my alts unsubscribe from Eve to never return.
So much for "Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP". Retracting on promises made for YEARS is a direct contradiction of this statement, at the "actions speak louder than words" level.
MAKE OPT OUT PERMANENT AS PROMISED.
CCP, you also need to look at the massive increase in INCREASED BANDWIDTH usage by Incarna. The game is flat out UNPLAYABLE on some lower-end ADSL connections, which is what your current RECOMMENDED standards specifies. My current 3G Cellular connection is FASTER than many ADSL connections, yet the lag on gate jumping - docking - undocking has gone through the ROOF since Incarna, after already taking a serious bandwidth-based performance hit in Incursions. A lot of this appears to be the new "we are going to FORCE you to download ALL portrats" change in Incursions, and it don't matter how much you upgrade your "portrait server" when you're overloading the BANDWIDTH of a lot of your customers, many of which don't want the damned portraits AT ALL and even do everything we can to turn the damned things OFF, only to end up with tons of them on our machine ANYWAY.
IMO the whole "push out 2 expansions a year no matter HOW crappy and HOW buggy" concept is a very bad idea. Even SoE stopped doing that **** to Everquest, and it's certainly never been a POSITIVE selling point to anyone that's been playing MMORGS for any length of time. CCP NEEDS to take a serious look at putting some real effort into fixing their EXISTING game and the many LONGSTANDING bug issues with it, THEN you can start thinking SENSIBLE about adding new stuff.
TO be blunt, the last *2* expansions have been total CRAP as far as I am concerned, I'd be a TON happier if Incursions and Incarna had never happened. They added NOTHING to my positive gameplay experience, but have had MAJOR NEGATIVE IMPACTS to it.
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Franz Sigel
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 -
[240]
Thx for notifying! Finally they've done it - I read it and what they say goes fine with me so far. Surely will resub. What is not being addressed is the topic of neglected EvE content for the sake of developer resources going into WoD and Dust. But I have not expected that this be solved by what has been an outspoken crisis diplomacy. Instead I see this as a task for the CSM in the upcoming time. I expect that CCP have learned their lessons concerning communication issues. For me, EvE has not died this weekend.
But there's another kind of death that comes from oversaturation, which is not the game's fault, but a normal effect of long-time immersion into a virtual reality. Had this oversaturation myself with Lotro which I've been playing intensely since it's start in 2007 - and that's the reason why I'm now back here again. Other players will migrate away from EvE for the same reason. For them leaving, it seems to me (as has been multiply pointed out in the past threads), the current crisis is the inducement, but not the cause.
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St'oto
Elite Predators
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Vikarion You guys make me very, very happy. Re-subbing. Also, I'll buy at least one thing from the NEX store.
You people do realize that by buying into the very thing that had the community in the uproar you get the company one step closer to trying to do it in the future? The NeX store period is bad in all honesty. But by buying $70 bloody virtual goods which need I remind you is $10 more then a full game, you are giving them a better reason to slowly introduce pay based advantages. As they will slowly start putting it in as people warm up to this new store.
I'm sorry but once you start microtransactions, eventually the greed will take over. Slowly but surely people will warm up to this store(it's already happening) then eventually CCP will do another "trial run". But this time it will effect the game instead of just being vanity.
I'm sorry but I'd rather buy a new PC game off of steam, or hell buy a console game then spend $70 on a virtual good that has absolutely no function other then "Yea I'm rich *****, suck it!"
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raukosen
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:46:00 -
[242]
You want to improve communication? Stop NDA-ing every little ****ing thing you tell the CSM
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[243]
Originally by: SerialTurd Immediate questions were answered. As some have stated my new concern is future content.
Are we going to see more Incarna like expansions where the bulk of it is about walking in stations with little additions to space? If so, EVE will not survive.
Remember. This is all about internet space ships which are of the utmost importance. Walking in stations is at the bottom of that list and for many, not even on the list. Most could care less about it. Make sure your primary focus is and always will be the space content of Eve.
-Turd
Personally, I consider BiS (Barbie In Space) a very major thing, and I hope CCP will continue to focus on Incarna: new CQ's for the other races first, then the actual walking in station (as opposed to just walking up and down your room), etc.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Khudin Hadashur
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[244]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Very good.
A thank you and :approve: to the CSM for hammering the points home. A thank you and :approve: to CCP staff as well for getting this devblog and video out relatively quickly.
I'm looking forward to see further communication about the points adressed in this joint statement like the rollout of the old-style hangar replacement and a hopefully steady stream of Incarna performance tweaks.
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
It's very clear you completely missed the point, as far as CQ is concerned.
This.
I'll just leave this here, though. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Reilly Duvolle
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[246]
(Pasted from my locked tread)
The recently published joint CCP-CSM devblog adresses the issues on the table, namely
1) That CCP has no plans to use the NEX for anything but vanity items. This is in fact a stronger wording than the previous "no gold ammo" statement, due to the great number of possibilities which falls into the "grey area" between pure vanity and game changing items (so-called convenience items for example). No, CCP has not stated that they will never have such plans ever, but that would actually be unreasonable to demand. Suffice to say, your time and effort spent in-game will still define your sucess, for at LEAST the 3 next years. Also I am sure, that IF CCP toys with this idea again, I trust our magnificent community to rise up to the challenge once more.
2) That CCP will give us ship spinning back "in some form". This was NOT their intention, and player sentiment has carried the day in this issue. In light of that, I take the ambiguities contained in the phrase "...and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance" lightly. CCP now has the opportunity to make this the way it should have always been, namely that you are in your pod until you choose to disembark from it to venture into the station (to get "off grid") all with slimy cut-scenes i am sure.
3) That CCP will detail the pricing strategy behind the Noble Exchange. That they will not change their prices at the current time is very understandable, and I suspect that for the majority of EVE-players this isnt a big deal. If numbers from EA also is representative for the EVE Community, only 2-3% of the population can be considered peacocks anyway (yes monocle owners, I am looking at you).
4) That CCP is aware of and adresses the "hardware and lighting issues" within CQ. A survey over at FHC tells me that a majority of EVE players play with CQ turned off. This is undoubtly data available to CCP as well, and must generate concern. Part of the isse seems to be the "non-gameplay" debate, but a majority reports massive fan/heating issues as the main reasons. Therefore, CCP will tackle this head on, as they cannot afford Incarna to fail after all this time.
All in all, I think this response is more than acceptable for a majority of players that fall into the "protester and/or unsubber" category. So this is OUR victory. The protests and unsubscription campaign forced CCPs hand, denying them to play this by the ear as time went by. Instead, they hade to make a move, calling CSM to island, and COMMIT themselves.
The EVE community, when united, has real power. Divided, we fall. This time, our community has succeeded, despite the trolls found among or ranks. To them I have only one message:
You are welcome.
I for one will be resubbing my 4 accounts.
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Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[247]
Satisfied, myself. Could have used an apology from Hilmar for the tone of his leaked internal letter, but knowing that business administration in Iceland -- or any Nordic country -- has its own peculiarities, I won't blow up about it. I will however continue to laugh at conspiracy theorists and trolls on the forums.
Thanks to CSM6 and the CCP attendees for being awesome.
___
Latest video: Future Proof (720p) 2D Animator |
Kane Molou
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:47:00 -
[248]
Sorry you can't get a point, it's not just the Video it's also the Dev Blog They spent a day on that apparently.. and yet it simply says exactly what every one was saying it would..
There is NOTHING in this that deals with the Bug issues and the only thing that Deals with the Heat issue is
"The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings."
I'm on a Core i7 with a GTX based Geforce card and I'm running CPU wise with 1 client open at 70 - 80 degree Cel.
There is nothing here on the performance and Bug issues at all, except hey sorry were massively boosting the minimum requirements despite only stating that it was shader mdoel 1 and 2 support we where dumping.
and given the CSM is meant to be our representatives we should be allowed a Live stream of their meetings.
Originally by: Moon Shadowfall Sorry they can't redo the entire two days in a 10 minute discussion for you.
Originally by: Kane Molou Any one else think that even the CSM appears to have things wrong, I mean watch the video and Mittens goes on about how this is all about the whole 'price' and 'pay to win' issue.. and yet this was never wholely about those or even Fearless they where the 'Spark' that lit the already near exploding boiler.
We have no firm anything, no reason for a half assed expansion, no reasoning for why we have a client that is now close to killing even Top of the line machines, No information on when we will ever get anything new from CCP..
The big issue here once again NDAs etc. We are what expected to just take on face value that CSM is not lieing that CCP is not lieing? Hello that = what started this in the first place.. Either there is a LOT more transperancy or come next resub i'm out with my 3 accounts.
All I know is that I'm tired of hearing that the issue is about 'Virtual Goods' it's not just VIRTUAL GOODS.
1. Fix the problem of you client causing machines to overheat. 2. Prove that your dedicated to fixing BUGS and Half Finished Objects. 3. Finish Incarna and make it a REAL expansion. 4. Promise that what we see avalible for NO money is not all we are going to get. 5. Fix the damned BUGS... 6. Have I said it yet.. oh that's right i have but.. Fix the Bugs and Half Finished Stuff you've released. 7. Oh and fix the unbalanced Super Caps while your at it.
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Alakazam
Gallente Skid-Row
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 -
[249]
Mmhmhh..
good blog but I think a few questions were left unanswered.
I would really appriciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.
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Yin Utada
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Whiny McEmokid I found this to be predictable feedback and will be looking more at what CCP do than what they say.
|
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RougeOperator
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:48:00 -
[251]
I waited weeks for a lot of nothing. And CSM to show us how fast they brown nose.
Thats the feeling i have right now.
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Carmine Lady
Amarr Viziam
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:49:00 -
[252]
Thankyou to the csm, I am satisfied.
I feel an apology from me is due, I got kind of mad in one of the other threads last week and I completely take back what I said.
Because to be honest eve is a one of a kind.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:49:00 -
[253]
Also, I'm pretty tired of seeing the old "poor communications" excuse trotted out over any/everything. You have beaten that one to death.
And wasn't that essentially the impetus for establishing the CSM in the first place? Yet, the problem persists, year after year after year.
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Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:50:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Spring Heeled Jim Edited by: Spring Heeled Jim on 02/07/2011 17:43:23 The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time
So you could in theory still sell SP's.
As an example: You could maybe sell an SP boost that you could only buy once every six months, which would be less SP's than if you actually trained them. So time wins over money.
That probable makes no sense, but I know what I mean.
So if I dump $1,000 into the Nex store that's the equivalent of 66,6 monthly subscription fees or 2,000 days or 48,0000 hours or over 90,000,000 SP. It shouldn't be unfair to get those for my character since it's quite normal to accumulate during the amount of subscription time you can pay for with $1,000. Right?
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MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 -
[255]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 02/07/2011 17:51:49 RTsumT: Half a page of drivel regurgitating what was blatantly obvious ab initio for people with half a brain. Presented in two flavours plus meaningless YouTube clip for your drama***** pleasure. None of the truly important topics were touched. A perfect smokescreen to distract people from the real issues:
- Expansions devoid of relevant features and fixes. - Degradation of client performance. - Introduction of new, critical bugs not adressed in a timely fashion. - Stagnant, unsatisfactory content not iterated on. - Repeated incomplete implementation of new content. - Questionable allocation of resources by CCP management.
The list goes on and keeps growing.
It was all a brilliant PR stunt and I salute CCP. If there's one thing they did right, it's this. Wouldn't even be too surprised to find out that Pann is the driving force behind it all, because she's one of the few on this whole rigmarole who actually know how to do their job. Again CSM played their role as PR-puppets perfectly. Can't blame em, though. They're too incompetent and too easily lulled in by the PR machinery to realise what's actually going on. After all they're just a bunch of Eve nerds. If some of them weren't so full of themselves I might even like em. Nevermind.
Conclusion: Business as usual. Hilmar was right. Carry on.
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Space Wanderer
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 -
[256]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Maybe I am just a suspicious guy too used in finding loopholes, but doesn't this sentence mean that CCP could just create a Rex (Royalty eXchange) and sell non-vanity there?
Anybody in CSM care to comment?
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OCHOYTNIK
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 -
[257]
Good enough, I've resubscribed my accounts though I note with interest that one of them didn't unsub properly.
Please improve your communication.
Off to buy a monocle to troll people with.
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Maeve Nightside
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Marthe Sirius So the response to a lot of upset players is basically 'carry on as before'.
Nothing has changed except a lot of people are calling it a 'miracle'
This.
Does their statement erase the lack of attention to rolling out a good product? Does it restore trust? No to both. Waiting for action.
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gargars
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:51:00 -
[259]
Overall it will satisfy some people for the time being, and I appreciate the effort of the many people involved in this.
A few comments though playing devil's advocate:
CCP states they have 'no plans' for game-breaking micro transactions. Well it was one year ago exactly that they promised NO MICRO-TRANSACTIONS AT ALL. This slip the CSM's mind? That promise failed in much less than a year didn't it and you say nothing about it even now? It doesn't make me feel an urge to trust them now sorry.
So since CCP and the CSM agree that you should 'never be able to buy an advantage with money over time'... that the Character Bazaar will be taken down? Doesn't it fly directly in the face of that agreement? It's a very blatant example of doing exactly that is it not? I know the "but it's isk and not real money" argument and it is a feeble one.
I am not a 'mittens' fan but he seemed to do ok at least in his video, except some hubris on what he thinks becomes what everyone thinks. Such as in the video his talking about 'the leak that set all this nonsense off' (nonsense is it?) and his using the past tense on some things as in 'the player base WAS upset'. Didn't know he could time travel.
The worst though to me was the statement in regards to Hilmar's insulting email. That IS a HUGE issue to many and all the CSM say is:
"We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
SYMPATHY?
Anyway thanks to the CSM for giving it a shot. I am sure everyone appreciates that.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:52:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Freddie Failquitter Edited by: Freddie Failquitter on 02/07/2011 17:29:51 So is this the part where all the failquitters who failed to quit "come out" and say they decided not to quit?
No, I am quitting, since they are telling the same half lie as last year ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:52:00 -
[261]
My thanks go to the CSM for investing so much time and effort.
To CCP: it will take more than those words to regain trust. I have yet to see a clear -convincing- statement that CCP will actively invest in EVE's continued development. Hilmar believes that incarna was a successful expansion, so no need for extra resources, right? Sad. :(
To the EVE devs: I trust you guys a lot more again, but I also feel like you do not have the resources (at all) to make EVE what you and the players want it to be.
In the end this has been a PR effort that so far has failed to take away my doubts about CCP as a company. |
Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 -
[262]
"no plans" =/= will not (that "no plans" 'promise' has been broken before)
"game breaking" == wiggle-room rendering the rest meaningless
"investment of money...should not give you an unfair advantage...CSM,under NDA...agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle" == can be argued now that any for-advantage item can be traded for PLEX AFTER purchase.
Please wake up and engage brain before reading, sheeple. The whole content of those statements has just rephrased the same crud in a more palatable way.
PS The moderator's Thread delet button is working again 2 threads I posted in disappeared.
Scared of the truth CCP?
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 02/07/2011 17:34:41
Originally by: Vandrion
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
Notice that there is a difference between saying there will be no microtransactions, and saying that there are no plans for microtransactions. Last year at this time, CCP probably DIDN'T have any plans to introduce microtransactions.
As for myself, the only thing that I care about is clear and honest communication between the players and CCP. I could care less about microtransactions, so long as the game is fun to play.
So next year or next patch if some game altering MT comes into play you will still assume CCP had no plans for it?
What is the expiration date for this statement:
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
As you are so fond of posting links to that thread, perhaps if you look at it closely you will see that each and every statement is given specifically as a response to questions concerning skills for micro transactions.
Even if we overlook your taking specific sentences out of the context of the discussion that was happening, MT weren't even a blip on the radar back then. It is highly likely that there was no internal discussion going on about them at that time.
Currently there is plenty of discussion about the topic, in very specific terms. Statements made by CCP are completely within the proper context and there can be no misunderstandings on what is being discussed.
This means that if CCP changes their minds on the issue, the DEV blog and video will instantly be brought up again to crucify them.
Time to stop beating the dead horse.
The thread with CCP Shadow's statements is about reimbursement of skillpoints however there were a fair amount of other threads and comments in those threads regarding MT as a whole. Shadow's statement says no MT at all which is inclusive of the skillpoint issues. The context is correct Ranger... If he was specifically discussing skillpoints he would have said 'We have no plans to have micro-transactions for skillpoints". See the difference?
As far as what discussions CCP was or wasn't having at the time Shadow made his statement last year we will never know. However, the amount of time that it takes to totally design WIS and incorporate all the changes that just adding vanity MT entails is a rather large project. I am willing to bet that MT was on someones drawing board when the statement was made. If it wasn't then it was only a short time after the statement was made that the process would have begun to include MT in Eve.
Once again I ask:
What is the expiration date of your statement in regardes to having NO PLANS for $$$ for advantage in Eve?
The horse needs more flogging TBH... Damn thing isn't quite dead yet. Plus I need some more I told you so Ammo....
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Franz Sigel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:53:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Velu Mate
Originally by: Myz Toyou Can I buy now a monocle without getting flamed ?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
the murder and plundering of Monocle wearers across New Eden shall commence at dawn every 3rd Tuesday of the month.
This day shall be known forever as Day of the Monocle!
That I'll appreciate in the sense of an overdue peasant's revolt against monoclestocracie's haughtiness!
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Skah Seraph
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:54:00 -
[265]
"Emotional attachment" to ship spinning?
Lol some Eve players are such babies. You miss your bottle too? Ugh too bad CCP caved to your whining
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Coco Caine
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 -
[266]
I'm quite disappointed. After almost two weeks there is some very careful talk about 'acknowledging' stuff, which is corporate spell for 'we knew you'd be ****ed off, but we don't really care'.
The main commitment is that there will be more development time dumped into cheaper out-of-thin-air items with no storyline, and that some dev will explain me, why a monocle is the most expensive in-game item.
Not with my money, ****yuo big time.
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Soden Rah
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 -
[267]
This is a good first step... But its only a first step.
The devil is in the details...
I will not be resubbing until the details of how/if you are bringing the hanger back. If you are going to keep it permanently. If everything in Incarna becomes MT based. Whether you start taking the concerns of RP and immersion [Back story continuity] seriously.
Basically I need the details... I need the devblogs addressing the actual issues, particularly as it does sound like the MT issues drowned out most everything else and left many of my concerns unaddressed. While I do appreciate the effort of the CSM, they don't represent me... The member I voted for didn't make it in... So more direct communication, on an ongoing basis is required with the playerbase, not just the CSM. --------
By Grfmsv÷tn, Eyjafjallaj÷kull, Vatnaj÷kull, and Hekla itself... THIS is my sig.
Support Optional CQ
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:55:00 -
[268]
i still dont like the " There are no plans, and have been no plans "
its stil no anwer..
one day a CCP guy walks in
"hey man i have a plan, let sell non vanity items in the store..."
there where no plans, and have been no plans..but now there is a plan.
so anwer me once and for all and clearly
" there will be never ever be anything other then vanity items on the store, and if someone at CCP walks in and comes up with a plan to sell none vanity item he will get the same treatment as the boot.ini guy"
this will happen if you come in to the office and have a plan to sell none vanity item on the store..
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Maplestone
Myth and Peace Lords
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:56:00 -
[269]
CCP feels that vanity-only items are going to be important enough to invest time, tears and reputation to push through an item shop.
CSM feels vanity items are not important enough to worry about.
I find it difficult to reconcile these two opinions without one side being completely wrong.
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Sepinar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:56:00 -
[270]
WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH WHITEWASH
That is what the dev blog was. A whole lot of words that said absolutely nothing and left many holes to be filled in later as they deem fit. Non-vanity items will be in the CS and
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Jashmyne
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:56:00 -
[271]
Good CCP. Can we now get more of the Incarna content ? The other CQs and open up the rest of the stations.
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Neom Disaki
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:57:00 -
[272]
I didn't like the game breaking phrase. Other than that, I'm happy with what I've read and watched. I do wish it didn't take all this to just answer a few simple questions.
What I dislike about the game breaking part is that, it leaves room for interpretation. Are we going to see items such as more fitting slots on the NEX?
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Victoria Wolfe
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:58:00 -
[273]
Very pleased with the results! Pretty much everything major was addressed. I was actually surprised they moved on the ship spinning but am happy to see it make a return. Now just get me missile turrets and I'll be all set ___
"Speak for yourself sir, I intend to live forever" - Commander William Riker |
RUS Comannder
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:58:00 -
[274]
quoted from dev blog:
"Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services."
I am comforted by the first sentence I bolded and if I held a great deal of trust for CCP right now, I would assume the words in the second bolded portion would just be phrased poorly. The phrase ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls" would inspire more confidence for me if it had specifically stated that any ships offered for sale in NEX would have no combat, combat support, industrial or industrial support roles and might include such ships as shuttles with equal or lesser performance than existing shuttles, but bearing enhanced visual appearances.
My concern is having NEX selling identical warships, mining ships, haulers, etc... as are currently mined, refined, built, transported and traded within the Eve economy, thus bypassing the community and undermining the player driven market place. If the same ships will be sold in NEX, career paths could become irrevelent.
Plex does not magically provide ships out of thin air, but merely finances the pursuit of the various career paths.
Thank you, Eve and CSM, for your diligence and attention to detail in what appears to be a good first step. You have met my (me, I only represent me) concerns at this point in the rebuilding of the relationship I once enjoyed with CCP. I will uphold my word and restore my unsubs, for now. Please don't have some last minute surprise to spring on us and have this whole pile of crap stirred around again.
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 17:59:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Maplestone CCP feels that vanity-only items are going to be important enough to invest time, tears and reputation to push through an item shop.
CSM feels vanity items are not important enough to worry about.
I find it difficult to reconcile these two opinions without one side being completely wrong.
Vanity items aren't important enough to worry about. I've called BS on all CCP's other BS but vanity items are fine. Even the price is fine. It's a terrible business model and if CCP would rather sell 100 items at 60 dollars than sell 20,000 items at 5 dollars that is up to them. If CCP wants to run a unsuccessful vanity store it doesn't affect the game.
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Mirtillo
Gallente Los Chupacabras
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:00:00 -
[276]
Good job (I know the difference between will and is going).
Resub. Mirtillo, Los Chupacabras, Siesta |
Jacob Flint
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:00:00 -
[277]
Wait a sec... what about a hybrid buff? I thought we've protested because Incarna didn't give them any love :o
No just kidding. I'll resub when I'm back at home. Thanks CSM. Thanks community. Good Job
*subliminal influence* (buff hybrids)
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Enthropic
Sturmgrenadier Inc Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:02:00 -
[278]
Thanks CSM. I'm satisfied with the outcome. Time to move on and enjoy the game, I'm looking forward to seeing new content for the future.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:02:00 -
[279]
This is breathtaking
CCP are telling us the same lie that was told last year and you are all falling for it.
Unbelievable ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
Atai Pekoe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:03:00 -
[280]
Edited by: Atai Pekoe on 02/07/2011 18:03:33 +1 like!
poster over me: go and play anywhere else... go, fast, calm... but GO!
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:03:00 -
[281]
Edited by: VicturusTeSaluto on 02/07/2011 18:05:52 Amazing. CCP still trying to extinguish a fire with oxygen.
Originally by: CCP Navigator It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We knew that you lied to us before about your planned direction of the game.
Now you go out of your way to make it obvious that you are still lying?
You don't even try to say "awww shucks, our bad. we are scrapping all of our plans to sell ships, ammo, standings, skillpoints etc for real money"
You say "oh we never intended for any of that in the first place!"
Just like you had previously said that there were no plans for MT's, period. While at the same time you were planning to introduce them.
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CCP Navigator
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:03:00 -
[282]
Hello everyone,
I can see you guys are posting faster than I can read though the comments but I wanted to jump in and answer one or two of your queries. I want you to note that my answers here are not the be all and end all and, like most technical decisions, these are subject to change depending on hardware and technical requirements. I will certainly be passing on a lot of your questions to people who are much more informed on the subject and can drop by this thread early next week and provide greater clarification:
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
Navigator Lead Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:04:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz This is breathtaking
CCP are telling us the same lie that was told last year and you are all falling for it.
Unbelievable
I see it like this in pokemon terms.
CCP summons CSM
CCP has CSM use Smokescreen, its super effective.
Guess Hilmar was right.
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Cheroth Morachi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:04:00 -
[284]
Are we still talking about this? Are we so terribly cynical that we're continuing to speculate and *****? I don't expect anyone to say: "Oh mah Godz, teh CCP and CSM are teh awsome! I'm gonna buy an monocle!" but ffs, do you know what some people are looking like? Does anyone remember what happened to Old Yeller?
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Vladimir Ilych
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:04:00 -
[285]
I Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 02/07/2011 16:54:20
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store
We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
edit: laughing so hard at the video.
Satisfied.
NeX still ruins immersion for RP's though. Trousers that cost more than ships?
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SerialTurd
APEX ARDENT COALITION C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:04:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: SerialTurd Immediate questions were answered. As some have stated my new concern is future content.
Are we going to see more Incarna like expansions where the bulk of it is about walking in stations with little additions to space? If so, EVE will not survive.
Remember. This is all about internet space ships which are of the utmost importance. Walking in stations is at the bottom of that list and for many, not even on the list. Most could care less about it. Make sure your primary focus is and always will be the space content of Eve.
-Turd
Personally, I consider BiS (Barbie In Space) a very major thing, and I hope CCP will continue to focus on Incarna: new CQ's for the other races first, then the actual walking in station (as opposed to just walking up and down your room), etc.
Developing for Incarna could turn this game into a completely different game. Entire expansions could be done on just walking in stations and with the time needed to produce and push out an expansion plus the numbers CCP has to work on a expansion does not leave a lot of room for other parts of the space aspect of eve to be updated.
It has to be one or the other. You are either going to release a major expansion for Walking in stations or for Space. Eve is space. That's the reason we play it. If we wanted walking in stations, we can all go play The Old Republic when that comes out and you can do the /dance all you want.
EVE is about /lasers. End of story. Develop for walking if you like, but they should be minimal. Fix what's not working correctly in space first.
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Marketeerer
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:04:00 -
[287]
"hmm. well, alright." pretty much sums up my thoughts.
I'm satisfied enough to resub my accounts, but that will have to wait until I have replaced my burnt-out ati 5870 (thx, incarna)
Ive read and heard they will never be able to buy "gold ships" "gold ammo" "game breaking advantage" and "unfair advantage". I would have been happier with a simple "advantage" to bar wiggle room but I can hope that the proper intent is present.
Honestly, this whole thing should NOT have taken over a week plus a CSM flight to resolve. But, on the other hand, It feels like this is the most seriously the CSM has ever been taken, and perhaps this last week will in the end be a good thing, having catalyzed better CCP <-> Playerbase communications.
I Applaud the CSM for making the time for what must have been a disruptive emergency meeting and standing up for us, and I hope to applaud CCP in the future when we start seeing the results of this meeting.
Now, we just need a name for this last week for the history books.
"The Great '11 rebellion"? "The Monocle Riots"?
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Liner Xiandra
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:05:00 -
[288]
Bit of a weak, poorly written statement from both parties.
CSM seems a bit too easily pleased - "happy the issues are being addressed"; They should give CCP hell for releasing halfbaked expansions which need patch after patch to return functionality. But CCP seems to show no issue at all with this, and not a thank you in their statement to the overwhelming customer response they received on the forums/twitter/whatnot.
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Marcus Dustor
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:05:00 -
[289]
Kudos to CPP and CSM.
I think, in general, CCP deserves some credit for even having such a thing as the CSM for EVE.
I hope one thing to be learned from this, is that CCP should never again institute an information blackout. Worst PR ever.
When cheaper items show up in the NEX, I'll "buy" something.
Thanks to the CSM for interrupting your lives, and thanks to CCP for obviously listening to them-- AND for noticing the EVE pilots discontent.
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Jacob Flint
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:05:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz This is breathtaking
CCP are telling us the same lie that was told last year and you are all falling for it.
Unbelievable
Maybe..thats all we got.. and i do like EVE.. so I'll play it with good thoughts in my mind for some more time. I'll respect your opinion, but if you don't mind, you could send me some of your stuff, so that I can enjoy the game even more :) Thank you.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:05:00 -
[291]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
Good, then I won't even think about giving you money until after summer. No Product, no payment.
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Smoogle
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:06:00 -
[292]
Don't forget that the player reactions are "_very predictable_" according to Hilmar. And they watch what you do, not what you say. This could very well just be damage control, while they figure out how to slowly steer back to where they want to be. They know darn well that if they take baby steps, people won't be outraged enough to unsub, and the ripples will quiet quickly enough.
Sadly, while this email looks good on the face, I'll be surprised if CCP actually keeps to this kind of approach. They need to pay for Dust and WOD somehow, after all.
Still, feel free to surprise me, CCP. I'll be watching what you do, not what you say.
Wouldn't it be better to sell 50000 monocles at $2 than 1000 monocles at 70$?
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:06:00 -
[293]
While I'm not entirely satisfied with the statement that there never have been any plans to introduce non-vanity NeX items (the Fearless newsletter definitely indicates that it was being debated internally even if no "plans" existed), the statement regarding future plans being for only vanity items is sufficient for me.
I'm glad, I can buy that Guristas hoodie I've been wanting to order but have avoided due to the MT controversy.
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:07:00 -
[294]
Quote: "Captain's Quarters: We discussed the hardware and lighting issues within the CQ and we were satisfied that they were being addressed. We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden."
This gives me pause and I'm going to have to think a while before I re-sub my main account.
This answer does deal with performance, which is good, but it does NOT deal with the issue that there is no reason to force WiS upon every dock. According to the response, if performance can be brought to pre-Incarna level, the hanger view will go away again. This is not acceptable. I'm not angry because it's game-breaking like P2W, I'm angry because it's stupid beyond belief. Decant to grab some ammo? Really? WTF are CCP thinking? Why would a "Disembark Pod" button ever be removed? If for some reason CCP wants to make everybody at least try WiS, then implement some kind of periodic "Pilot's License Fitness Examination" requirement or somesuch that makes a pilot walk to a station-bound physician. Or something, anything that at least makes sense.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:07:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz This is breathtaking
CCP are telling us the same lie that was told last year and you are all falling for it.
Unbelievable
Indeed...
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
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Xyla Vulchanus
Amarr Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:07:00 -
[296]
Am I alone in requiring more specific information?
Ok, so no gold ammo and custom ships, but will there be any ammo or ships for sale in the NEX?
The blog intimates that there will be no skillpoints for Aurum (the reference to time being a more important investment than money) but will there be re-allocation of SP for cash, or remaps for cash?
I really do need those issues addressed before I decide whether to stick with Eve or call it a day.
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DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:07:00 -
[297]
I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what it says.
But it's a start. Hopefully everything comes to a peaceful resolution. (I may buy a potted tree if additional furniture gets introduced in the CQ.)
Originally by: CCP Zulu It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM m |
Mister Smithington
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:08:00 -
[298]
I, for one, am satisfied.
The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.
I'm glad to see CCP denounce MT for power items. But to be dead honest, after the Ishikone Watch Scorpion fiasco, I trust the community to be the judge of what is "game affecting" far more than CCP or the CSM. I shall take their word for now, but I reserve the right to rage should the issue come up again in the future.
I am interested to see the dev blog on the NeX pricing model. Judging by only what we have available, it appears CCP does not understand the principles of the microtransaction payment model.
Anyway, I no longer plan to let my accounts lapse.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:09:00 -
[299]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
But you missed the point entirly. We wanted the choice of when to disembark.
You've basically said, 'sure you can have spinning back, but we've left the door open so we can pull it asap.'
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
|
Isabella Thresher
Fat Kitty Inc. Excuses.
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:09:00 -
[300]
Originally by: CCP Navigator I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
fixing lolsec? SC wins nerf? complete T2 bpo removal? or maybe a long overdue revamp of the clickfest GUI? oh, the dreams....
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Dasola
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:09:00 -
[301]
Glad issues were resolved. Just wondering how it took this long to confirm no vanity items. Dear ccp please step up your communications.
Hmm, was actually looking forward blockadeing jita again, i quess i have to find something else to do then.
Will keep my 4 accounts online. Satisfactory resolv has been reached. CCP you better keep those plans outlined on that summit. * Revolution changes worlds * CCP, players are watching, no empty promises. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:10:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
But you missed the point entirly. We wanted the choice of when to disembark.
You've basically said, 'sure you can have spinning back, but we've left the door open so we can pull it asap.'
They want you to have no choice but to look at the PANTS....
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:10:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 18:11:39
Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning
This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before.
/me facepalm.
EVE Commnunity, this is what you get by using "silly terms" about your worries and desires. Now CCP thinks that the "Ship SpinningÖ" issue is about spinning ships...
Here here. Don't even bother with Ship SpinningÖ until you get what we are talking about. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Red Twilight
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:10:00 -
[304]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
I can see you guys are posting faster than I can read though the comments but I wanted to jump in and answer one or two of your queries. I want you to note that my answers here are not the be all and end all and, like most technical decisions, these are subject to change depending on hardware and technical requirements. I will certainly be passing on a lot of your questions to people who are much more informed on the subject and can drop by this thread early next week and provide greater clarification:
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
@ CCP Navigator - The choice to develop incarna was an absurd one. If you want to satisfy those who are still upset one of the best ways would be to discuss this new content now. Get on it.
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Esceem
Gallente Baby Seal Clubbing Appreciation Society Bed Bath and Beyond
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:12:00 -
[305]
It is a positive sign and a step into the right direction. Many thanks to the CSM members for your efforts, and also thanks to CCP for listening.
Still, the wordings in the statements leave quite some back doors. Let's see and watch if CCP dares to touch them in future...
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Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:12:00 -
[306]
Originally by: SerialTurd
... EVE is about /lasers. End of story. ...
As someone who flies Minmatar and Gallente pilots I am deeply offended by that.
:)
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Barrick Mane
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:12:00 -
[307]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
I can see you guys are posting faster than I can read though the comments but I wanted to jump in and answer one or two of your queries. I want you to note that my answers here are not the be all and end all and, like most technical decisions, these are subject to change depending on hardware and technical requirements. I will certainly be passing on a lot of your questions to people who are much more informed on the subject and can drop by this thread early next week and provide greater clarification:
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
Cheers for the update Nav! |
Bhriam
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:12:00 -
[308]
Nice work CCP. looking forward to incarna progress this summer.
wtb that wall poster in the back of vid!
-cheers!
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Benedic
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 -
[309]
Check this thread in a year, will probably be in the "CCP PROMISED... then did the opposite" pile. At least it won't be lonely.
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Hoya en Marland
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 -
[310]
Edited by: Hoya en Marland on 02/07/2011 18:16:07
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
This is all I wanted to hear, loud and clear. Thank you. Now I can only hope that they'll stick to this promise.
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Kane Molou
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 -
[311]
Navigator: So again we are meant to just take this on faith?
I believe a lot of people will point out that ship Spinning was in here Prior to patch, Simply turn it back on.. ohhhhh hang on let me guess you guys actually deleted 10,000 lines of code rather then commenting it out incase something went massively wrong with your new patch?
There should be nothing stopping CCP from re-introducing the old ship hanger, with a extra UI button called 'Disembark' which then takes you into the current CQ.
And again, Nothing to address the bugs other then 'wait and see' but a lot of us have been waiting for years now and every expansion we see.. old content left to rot, new bugs.
You guys haven't addressed those, you just side step it and for a chunk of your player base it's gotten to the point that with everything else BOOM enough is enoguh.. Start giving Firm Dates on we will be addressing [Chunk of Bugs and Half finished Stuff] by this time of year, we will NOT be adding extra major stuff until it's fixed.
Hybrids, Super Caps, Faction Warfare, etc etc all BUGGED, Unbalanced or Unfinished.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
I can see you guys are posting faster than I can read though the comments but I wanted to jump in and answer one or two of your queries. I want you to note that my answers here are not the be all and end all and, like most technical decisions, these are subject to change depending on hardware and technical requirements. I will certainly be passing on a lot of your questions to people who are much more informed on the subject and can drop by this thread early next week and provide greater clarification:
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 -
[312]
Trebor Daehdoow you need to get on here man and explain this ship spinning BS.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:13:00 -
[313]
Originally by: CCP Navigator EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus.
If you would put any lesser focus on space, you'd be removing features instead of adding them.
Oh wait, you did! Removal of agent divisions, removal of standings, removal of the hangar view.
So what's next to get 'amalgamated'?
How about minerals? Having so many different ones serves no real purpose anyway as they are balanced by volume and yield, so you could just have bigger roids in lower sec and it'd make building stuff less confusing for a new player with only a single mineral need and it'd reduce database load and market load. C'mon, do it! --------
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:14:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Mister Smithington I, for one, am satisfied.
The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.
READ THE THREAD.
Navigator has already clarified that hangar view will NOT be returning.
They are playing you.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:14:00 -
[315]
All I read/heard was an edited version of what a lawyer would tell them to write. I am shocked to see how many people are swallowing it. An I loled so hard when someone said to apologize to CCP. I didn't see any apology coming from CCP, what makes you think anybody should give them one?
An exactly who is CCP, an who caused the issues in the first place? CCP is a company, not an entity, it is the people working under the CCP name whom make CCP. I feel bad for the ones who work for CCP who had nothing to do with this, the current quagmire was only the fault of a few.
Apologize, to them, your out of your mind. The responsable parties should be held accountable, which will never happen.
As for the issues being dealt with, only the ones they will admit to, or desire to address, the other issues are still swept under the rug.
Pigs eat swill, take your swill an feed it to them, I for one sure has hell don't appreciate you trying to feed your swill to me. Then again, why should there have been an expectation of anything but ...
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Andrea Roche
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:14:00 -
[316]
While the desicion was final and good i still feel disapointed. Disapointd cos what we had to do to get CCP to listen. Is this means that maybe down the line we get a similar drama and we have nothing in place not to reexperince all this again. This could have well happened a few months ago with system nerf aka sanctums etc. My questions is...Do we have something in place so that this does not happen again? I fear this question is gonna go ignored and swepped under the rug.
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Ahz
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
But you missed the point entirly. We wanted the choice of when to disembark.
You've basically said, 'sure you can have spinning back, but we've left the door open so we can pull it asap.'
Yeah, I think this is where I'm at as well.
I don't want to bother with the interior environments at all. Particularly when they serve no purpose.
I'd like to just be able to turn them off and engage with the docked "ship spinning" screens as usual. And maybe never turn the CQ on again.
Seems to me that CCP should want this too.
If players are selecting the CQ of their own free will, then CCP will know when Incarna is actually providing players something of value.
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Apollo Gabriel
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[318]
CCP
why?
That is the question that I don't see answered. I see a lot of WHAT, but very little motivation, and I think that is the missing part of the equation here. Had CCP Zulu in his first blog said "we're upset" by the release and will get back to you more, it would have made a difference.
Ship Spinning I understand it won't return, but WHY? why was it removed, why must it stay removed? Immersion is a very big part of the game. When we dock up to pick up ammo, WHY would we disembark?
MT for Vanity Ships In CCP Zin's discussions he mentioned that the AURUM store could not in any way take any items (as LP store could), well WHY? Was it NOT finished? Was it designed that way?
Dev Blogs Should consider this format: Who or what is it about? - typically you do a good job here. When will it occur? Soon is a bad answer. How? - those are our favourite dev blogs Why? - typically absent and in my opinion, the reason for SO MUCH MISUNDERSTANDING.
================================================== Anyone can shoot themselves in the foot, or the ass, but in this case CCP managed to do both with one shot, which takes real skill. -CSM Trebor |
Telven Stareal
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Nit picky much.... game breaking changes such as P2W items are what we all were *****ing about, get a life
I was going to say that person should learn to read what he/she decides to "quote".. it even says "the NeX store will be used for VANITY items ONLY". I don't think they can break it down any farther then that.. if you can't understand that, then maybe Eve isn't the game for you.
"Oh, but wait.. it says the NeX store will only sell vanity items, Mr. Telven". GASP! "That means they are coming out with another store!"
If anyone thinks this, please message me in game, I will be happy to take all your stuff as you leave, because you read into something that isn't there.
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Attaia
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[320]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Sorry for the harsh language, but are you playing dumb? IT'S NOT ABOUT SPINNING THE F***ING SHIP! It's about not having to load a ton of poorly coded bloat, waiting 5 minutes just to grab some more ammo, and doing small things efficiently. The whole hangar view (a.k.a. "ship spinning") was just that - fast loading, efficient and intuitive interface to manage your damn spaceship, not staring on your gorgeous ass.
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[321]
Navigator people want to be able to disable the poorly designed/optimized/spaceship barbie CQ. They do not want to be able to walk down to hanger and just watch their ship spin. Why the hell do you guys even care if people choose to turn it off? Sales in the NeX store have to be next to nothing already. You guys do not have any idea how to run even a vanity item store so why not just give people the choice to disable it? We're not buying 50 dollar outfits no matter how hard you try.
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Kiran
Minmatar Knights of Azrael
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:15:00 -
[322]
First off you both looked knackered in the vid.
Good to see that the nex store will not be selling pay to win items. And that time spent in Eve is what will make the difference.
The pricing in the NEX store? Really you keeping the same prices as what is already up? So you sold 55 monocles at ú60, if you put the price down to ú5 you would sell 20 times more same goes for the clothing. But if you want to make a loss on these items then by all means carry on. I will not be buying a virtual item for more than ú5.
yay for ship spinning coming back. CQ at present is boring and non functional.
On the info from CCP soundwave and his crew, now your just teasing us.
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Mars Theran
Caldari EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:16:00 -
[323]
Kudos to CSM and CCP for managing to get through all the flaming and trolling on these forums for a week, get together and work out a reasonable response for this group of often ungrateful wretches.
Quite satisfied with the blogs, though they do leave a little to interpretation, but you can't cover everything with a simple yes or no either, and you'd be called a liar if you did. Here, or down the road.
Thanks for doing this CCP, and thanks to the CSM as well. Good job by all! I could feel the residual tension at points in the video blog, and feel that it was a much easier thing for CSM to deal with and accept, than it was for the members of CCP who were present for the debate. Being challenged on how to run your company and do your job isn't often an easy thing to accept.
Having that availability and functionality within the structure of the company and community is one of the things that sets EVE and CCP aside from the others. I believe it makes them better, and has the potential to contribute to the longevity of both the product and the company.
With regards to World of Darkness and Dust514: Both of those games will eventually bring in revenue as well, and it will just add to what CCP has to go around to all of its projects. Eventually, one can hope WoD will pay backwards, and allow for the reinvestment of resources in EVE, and Dust is really just an extension to EVE, that may eventually merge seamlessly with it. Wouldn't that be cool!?
EVE is growing, changing, and opening up new options for future development. It is evolving, and that is necessary for it to stay mainstream and competitive in the future.
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Kial Riece
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:16:00 -
[324]
WOW! Did you see how tired they both looked in the video interview? I find it a true testiment of how much EVE has grown from a 'game' into an entity. The passion shown by both players, CSM and CCP, yes CCP!, also over the years has been amazing for what is essentially a game. Recent events have shown both good and bad sides of the EVE community and staff and highlight how much we as a whole care for the world we immerse ourselves in. I look forward to many more years of fun times, changes, controversy and thrills from this virtual lifestyle we love and really believe in. This may sound like CCP PR but there really is nothing quite like EVE anywhere that could spark such passion and desire. See you all out there :) Kial Riece
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:16:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Kiran yay for ship spinning coming back. CQ at present is boring and non functional.
Read it again, then see if you rejoice.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:16:00 -
[326]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
I really don't think that for most players it's about literally being able to spin a ship...that's just a catchphrase way to say "we still want to be in the hanger upon docking rather than forced WiS". Talking about it only as "ship spinning" seems to miss the point.
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fgft Athonille
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:17:00 -
[327]
cant wait until you pathetic *******s go back on your word
Originally by: Skippermonkey keep trying and you can be an hero just like fgft Athonille
Originally by: Singeaboot Raj Tbh i am beginning to see the win - it's the haircut, makes people take notice.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:17:00 -
[328]
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/07/2011 18:18:40
I found this devblog a reasonable answer to the recent controversy and player concerns. However, for a statement that there was NO margin for misunderstanding on, and that was painstakingly translated to ensure it would be heard clearly in all languages, there was a great deal of margin for misunderstanding.
For example, it is mentioned that there are no plans for non-vanity MT, then later the term "game-breaking" is used and the concept of buying "an advantage" over an investment of time is discussed. Puchasing a ship outright that already exists in the game for 3500 aurum wouldn't be an "advantage" unless that ship costs more in ISK than 1 plex is worth on the open market. The CSM said it was convinced that CCP did not plan to introduce gameplay-affecting items, then went on to make statements concerning "game destroying" changes. The wording of the latter part implies that ships without "different statistics from existing common hulls" could be sold, and the co-issue of selling items normally produced through in-game means from thin air and therefore bypassing production was not addressed.
I would be inclined to believe that this was clumbsy wording, despite the time taken to craft the perfect statement. The next big step is to wait for the CSM to get back home and start answering questions, and to get further questions the CSM might not be able to answer ready for the CCP press conferences on Tuesday.
To re-iterate what was said on air on EVE Radio last night:If you still have any further concerns following this devblog, please mail them to [email protected] and I will do my best to ask the CSM and to ask CCP at Tuesday's press conference.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:18:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Skex Relbore
To CCP here are two things I'd still like to see dealt with.
Saved fitting limit in fitting management bump it up to something reasonable.
Re-consider the bans of prominent community members granting the same benefit of the doubt that you want us to grant you.
While the CSM seemed to forget more than just these two issues, I agree these two are important.
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Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:18:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose All I read/heard was an edited version of what a lawyer would tell them to write. I am shocked to see how many people are swallowing it. An I loled so hard when someone said to apologize to CCP. I didn't see any apology coming from CCP, what makes you think anybody should give them one?
An exactly who is CCP, an who caused the issues in the first place? CCP is a company, not an entity, it is the people working under the CCP name whom make CCP. I feel bad for the ones who work for CCP who had nothing to do with this, the current quagmire was only the fault of a few.
Apologize, to them, your out of your mind. The responsable parties should be held accountable, which will never happen.
As for the issues being dealt with, only the ones they will admit to, or desire to address, the other issues are still swept under the rug.
Pigs eat swill, take your swill an feed it to them, I for one sure has hell don't appreciate you trying to feed your swill to me. Then again, why should there have been an expectation of anything but ...
"apologize to CCP"
No. Bloody. Way.
CCP is very definitely on probation.
And the benefit of the doubt is no longer on their side. (If they had done a proper "mea culpa", that would have helped substantially.)
However, atm, let's see what they "do" for a while.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:19:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Kial Riece WOW! Did you see how tired they both looked in the video interview?
Heavy drinking does that to you. It's called 'hangover'. --------
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Dirty Little Secrets
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:19:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Nyphur I found this devblog a reasonable answer to the recent controversy and player concerns. However, for a statement that there was NO margin for misunderstanding on, and that was painstakingly translated to ensure it would be heard clearly in all languages, there was a great deal of margin for misunderstanding.
For example, it is mentioned that there are no plans for non-vanity MT, then later the term "game-breaking" is used and the concept of buying "an advantage" over an investment of time is discussed. For example, puchasing a ship outright that already exists in the game for 3500 aurum wouldn't be an "advantage" unless that ship costs more in ISK than 1 plex is worth on the open market. The CSM said it was convinced that CCP did not plan to introduce gameplay-affecting items, then went on to make statements concerning "game destroying" changes. The wording of the latter part implies that ships without "different statistics from existing common hulls" could be sold, and the co-issue of selling items normally produced through in-game means from thin air and therefore bypassing production was not addressed.
I would be inclined to believe that this was clumbsy wording, despite the time taken to craft the perfect statement. The next big step is to wait for the CSM to get back home and start answering questions, and to get further questions the CSM might not be able to answer ready for the CCP press conferences on Tuesday.
To re-iterate what was said on air on EVE Radio last night:If you still have any further concerns following this devblog, please mail them to [email protected] and I will do my best to ask the CSM and to ask CCP at Tuesday's press conference.
I'm done asking CCP anything. It is their turn to ask me for my money. They have to make the sale. CCP needs subscribers, the subscribers don't need CCP.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:19:00 -
[333]
Wow, look at them, not only are they soothed with sweet lies, they are soothed with the exact same sweet lies as you trotted out before fearless.
Awesome. Bet you wish you'd thought of telling the exact same lies again earlier. Well at least you will know for next time.
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Harleen Frances Quinzel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:19:00 -
[334]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed.
Originally by: CCP Navigator Bear in mind that I am only the messenger and that the hard work was all done by people like CCP Zulu, CCP Soundwave, CCP Flying Scotsman and the CSM. Those are the people who really deserve your thanks but I will pass it on to them.
I think someone is desperate for some good PR!
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:20:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
_____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:20:00 -
[336]
Originally by: Cashcow Golden Goose Wow, look at them, not only are they soothed with sweet lies, they are soothed with the exact same sweet lies as you trotted out before fearless.
Awesome. Bet you wish you'd thought of telling the exact same lies again earlier. Well at least you will know for next time.
Yeah but I wonder how many of them are alts trying to drum up good PR.
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Liner Xiandra
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:21:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Attaia
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Sorry for the harsh language, but are you playing dumb? IT'S NOT ABOUT SPINNING THE F***ING SHIP! It's about not having to load a ton of poorly coded bloat, waiting 5 minutes just to grab some more ammo, and doing small things efficiently. The whole hangar view (a.k.a. "ship spinning") was just that - fast loading, efficient and intuitive interface to manage your damn spaceship, not staring on your gorgeous ass.
QFT.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:21:00 -
[338]
Edited by: RAW23 on 02/07/2011 18:23:53 The language used seems deliberately opaque, especially the contrast between vanity items and 'game breaking items' (instead of vanity items and non-vanity items). It is also acknowledged that there is room for a 'grey area' between these two categories, which explains why an either/or formulation wasn't used. So my main question is, what is the potential content of the set of non-vanity and non-gamebreaking micro-transaction purchases? I can see some relatively unproblematic possibilities here, such as store-fronts/establishments but there also seems to be scope for more objectionable options.
To help us calibrate our instruments to the language being used could you elaborate on two possible examples, please?
1) Would the sale of faction standings be considered 'game-breaking'?
2) I know that CCP has committed not to introduce MT for remaps in the past but this was done after the intention to do so was first raised. Since this is a neutral issue, having already been dealt with, can you tell us whether these would have been considered 'game-breaking' or 'grey area' transactions?
Thank you.
Edit - Just saw this above:
Originally by: csm rep
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
Could you share this understanding with us please?
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Morganta
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 -
[339]
no plans != will not
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 -
[340]
Edited by: Mag''s on 02/07/2011 18:24:41 I honestly don't feel any different than this morning. If anything after reading the 'Ship spinning' rubbish, I actually feel rather disappointed.
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
Wrong. Have you even been reading the forums these past few days?
You're hiding behind the term ship spinning and I call BS.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Raz Xym
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:22:00 -
[341]
Thank you CSM. Since we know the "look at me, I said.. LOOK at ME, I'm a pretty pretty princess" store is not going away, this outcome was about the best that could be expected. We will never get a real answer from CCP, but at least the CSM was allowed to attach their comments pointing out the level of incompetence we, as a community, are dealing with here.
I do not, for one second, fully believe their stance on the Fearless newsletter. This is blatent marketing to internal employees. They want to sway all their internal staff to a certain way of thinking. Once it was released to the general public, they COULD NOT say it was actually what they planned to do. Since the only reason they are implementing Incarna is to sell virtual crap to real idiots. There is ZERO game enhancing functionality to Incarna. Think of the wasted time and resources. They were backed into a corner they had to lie. And, CCP has no problem lying since we were previously told there was going to be no MT.
So really this summit just underscores how sad CCP is at communication. What do we, as players, get out of this summit? We get our spinning ships again, maybe.... cause when reading what CCP says, it doesn't sounds like it. Basically, to do this, just proves how worthless Incarna is. I can't underscore this fact enough. Incarna is a colossal waste of time and resources. And the fact that CCP would allow this level of waste to occur, is mindboggling.
Just one month ago, if asked what the best MMO out there was, EVE was my definate answer. And this would have been due, in part, to my faith in CCP. In this last month, I have lost so much faith in CCP and their direction. They have lost touch with their base. Had to happen eventually I guess. Once you are successful you tend to attract useless leeches who are only interested short term money. And once there are enough of these leeches bleeding you, you get dizzy and faint and start making stupid stupid decisions.
I still have few months left on one account, probably 6+ months on another. I may even play the odd day. Will I extend these accounts, who knows, probably not. But my respect for CCP is gone. And it was this respect led me to hope and believe good things could be in the future of Eve. I no longer have this hope.
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:23:00 -
[342]
They Killed the TitanThreadPocalypse...
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Devinator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:23:00 -
[343]
What a fail, CCP.
This doesn't even attempt to address the FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE AT HAND.
The issue is that CCP has been misleading the playerbase regarding their planned direction for the game.
All of the other issues are trivial in comparison.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:23:00 -
[344]
I hope you all enjoy your thirty pieces of silver :mad:
Y'all got lawyertalked
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:23:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
Why the f u c k not? The code is already written, its tested and proven with years of functionality. Keep it simple stupid. This is just more confirmation that CCP is out of touch with reality. They could return the old hangar to us by monday, but instead give us a soon TM.
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Seline Okaski
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:24:00 -
[346]
Originally by: BtodaC Good job, but can you take the silly music (muzak) out of the backgound of the video, it makes the video seem more like some kind of love scene rather than a sober, bland discussion. Did you want it to seem like it was recorded in an elevator?
The CSM's also claimed to have discussed the $99 developers fee, can we get a little more detail about this issue as neither statements address it.
This is one of the items I had forwarded to the CSM and had hoped to get addressed. Hopefully some more clarification on this will be forthcoming.
Happy to hear there will be ship spinning sometime in the future. Very happy about the no game altering goods/services in the Aurum store. Still feel there needs to be more info on how CCP & the CSM plan on improving their communications as we go forward. Am disappointed that no apology/recognition from CCP concerning the very condescending tone of Hilmar's email.
Overall, I am optimistic, but will be closely watching what happens over the next few months.
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Mushimushi XOXO
Hugs'n Kisses
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:25:00 -
[347]
Well, thank you.
As I stated in the other topic: After waiting eagerly for so long I am very happy that you didn¦t waste even more time and money for a proper german translation and just sent it through Google Translate.
Should you really be serious about this translation stuff (and I have no idea why you should. Every single german that I know ingame reads and uses english) and the "no details lost in translation" statement, then please give the german text to a proper translator. No one reads more than 2 or 3 of this quirky and overcomplicated sentences without giving up. äSchiffkreiselnô is a hilarious gag but in the end it sounds like a chinese EULA.
Well, I wouldn¦t do it. I would just trash the german document.
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CCCP Supersmug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:25:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
_____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
"We will never, EVER, sell any item that affects gameplay PERIOD." Can't cover it all in one statement? I just did it in one sentence. Way to sell out. Did CCP promise to rig elections so you guys repeatedly get free trips to Iceland?
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GRIEV3R
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:25:00 -
[349]
This is acceptable.
Good job CCP, and good job CSM.
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SilentDisruptor
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 -
[350]
We know that you have been lying to us all along CCP.
You don't even attempt to apologize for that.
How do you do that? I wish I could lie like that.
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Devinator What a fail, CCP.
This doesn't even attempt to address the FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE AT HAND.
The issue is that CCP has been misleading the playerbase regarding their planned direction for the game.
All of the other issues are trivial in comparison.
What could they come out and say that would 1) Make you happy at this point 2) Not tell their competitors how to proceed ?
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Kren Dellejk
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 -
[352]
tl:dr?
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Ein Spiegel
Minmatar Fly-by-Night Industries LLC PTY LTD
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:26:00 -
[353]
I am happy at this direction in terms of communication. I appreciate the items addressed, the manner they were addressed, and that you did address them. Could've gone much longer winded, but this is a start. And miles above Smed.
Now, and here's the very, VERY, VERY important part. Keep it up. Stick with it. KEEP COMMUNICATING. Get more people to communicate. Don't use only the CSM to bounce ideas off of... if you've got devs with ideas, and those ideas aren't trade secrets or can be a topic of discussion without threatening CCP's business... LET THEM. And keep the devblogs coming, keep them full of good information, and keep discussing them after the fact. If you want a good idea of what I mean... look at any of the technical blogs and hardware pron in the devblogs about your awesome rack. (Of servers. And server performance.)
I watch, and retain slightly elevated optimism.
Unrelated, am I the only one that saw Mittens and thought... "He looks a little bit like a tool..." I guess, though, if you have the right tool for the job, that's good. And to all of the CSM, thanks for your work and united effort. Mittens gets to be the tool on the video, but you're all tools too, in your own right.
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Tia Ling
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:27:00 -
[354]
Well, I guess this does it for me. I am disappointed in this, and I am disappointed in what CCP has done. They didn't satisfactory answer for their mistakes and I am refuse to put up with this any longer. I waited to pass judgment until the CSM farce was over, and the result is myself having no confidence in this game and with the devs. Sadly, this was it for me. So long my friends. It was nice flying with you. o7
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:27:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Novak Sarin Trebor: Will there be meeting minutes released to the community, as promised on twitter? and if so, when?
Yes, and as soon as possible. AFAIK CCP is going to help with transcribing them. All the sessions were video-recorded (as usual).
Originally by: Tester128 this essentialy means that a HeX store next door to NeX is not in any way bound by this statement.
Not even CCP is so clueless as to believe that they could get away with this.
Originally by: Mag's Trebor Daehdoow you need to get on here man and explain this ship spinning BS.
OK, here it is as best I can explain it given my current lack of sleep; Navigator and Soundwave can correct me if I've mucked this up. Keep in mind that CCP hasn't designed this out yet, so things may change around a bit.
The major problem is that right now it takes longer to dock to Incarna (more resources must be loaded) and some functionality that the classic hangar view had isn't there -- so for example it's harder to dock, unload ore, and get back into space for more exciting mining action. And of course, no ship spinning.
The shorter-term fix is adding something similar to classic hangar view that has those features (and of course, ship spinning) and can load faster. You will be able to dock to that, or to Incarna, or go between them.
At some point in time, Incarna will also have all the missing features (including ship spinning) *and* can load in a similar amount of time to classic hangar view. At that point, CCP may remove the new hangar view (you might, for example, enter incarna looking at your ship, right in front of you ready to be spun). My personal attitude is that I'd prefer they didn't, but if they come up with something awesome, it might become a moot point.
PS: I believe that CCP was straight with us in the meetings, and that they are not going to weasel. But everyone should remember the famous words of that great philosopher, Ronald Reagan, spoken not far from where we met:
"Trust, but Verify"
I trust Zulu to keep his word. But I and the rest of the CSM will verify that he does.
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Anulla Bequin
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:27:00 -
[356]
Still not convinced. My account runs out this month. I'll wait until we start seeing real substantive responses from CCP and the CSM on the details of the meeting, and harder details about what plans for the future are. These are just the initial statements of intent, not real answers to what happened in Iceland.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:28:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Bloodpetal They Killed the TitanThreadPocalypse...
Yeah, that was actually quite some insult, nonchalantly locking that thread with a canned resply. --------
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:28:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
_____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
How about you share the definition of game breaking and p2w???????
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:28:00 -
[359]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
I guess they will use something like the fitting window without the interface while having all the station ui visible.
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Saul Perry
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:28:00 -
[360]
Wow, this whole situation borders on the unbelievable and totally absurd.
All this worry and all of this speculation. ALL OF IT could have been avoided with one sentence. No, we won't introduce non-vanity items. The answer to all the big yellow questions. And yet, despite there having 'Never been any plans' to do so, this was something CCP could not say.
I call BS on this. While I do, in fact, think that there will now be no more plans for non-vanity items (hey, I'm an optimist) I think there had to at least be some past plans to this effect or why else did it take so long to say 'no' and end all the confusion, speculation, suspicion and dismay? Was the free press that good?
And make no mistake, my calling BS on this is a compliment to you CCP, because if what you say is true, IT MEANS YOU ARE INCOMPETENT! How out of touch do you have to be to not have answered that question on day one of incarna if you knew the answer on day one?
Anyways, whatever. Sigh. What's done is done. I'll be resubbing in a couple months when my accounts near their expiration. I'm satisfied for now, even if this was a ridiculous mess.
I don't like the whole 'no ships with different stats in the NeX', but I'll assume you mean 'No ships that materialize from nothing'. As for convenience items I don't care. Make people pay for 50 more saved fittings. whatever. Get rich. Hire more devs and make EVE better. Go ahead.
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:29:00 -
[361]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before.
Why Not? You already have the Code in place for the "Old Style" Hanger View, why is there a need to use up development time in order to re-invent the wheel here? ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:29:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
So, I see that it's not just CCP that misses the point.
I DON'T GIVE A FLIP ABOUT SPINNING THE SHIP.
Decanting to grab ammo is STUPID!
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Heavenly Blues
|
Posted - 2011.07.02 18:29:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
_____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
How about you share the definition of game breaking and p2w???????
I think that he means that Plex are being removed from the game so that you can no longer pay to win yourself into a super carrier.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:30:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow The major problem is that right now it takes longer to dock to Incarna (more resources must be loaded) and some functionality that the classic hangar view had isn't there -- so for example it's harder to dock, unload ore, and get back into space for more exciting mining action. And of course, no ship spinning.
No no no. The major problem was lack of choice. Do you even read the assembly hall threads?
We want to choose when we leave our ship, it's called Immersion.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Telven Stareal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:30:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Nyphur Edited by: Nyphur on 02/07/2011 18:18:40
I found this devblog a reasonable answer to the recent controversy and player concerns. However, for a statement that there was NO margin for misunderstanding on, and that was painstakingly translated to ensure it would be heard clearly in all languages, there was a great deal of margin for misunderstanding.
For example, it is mentioned that there are no plans for non-vanity MT, then later the term "game-breaking" is used and the concept of buying "an advantage" over an investment of time is discussed. Puchasing a ship outright that already exists in the game for 3500 aurum wouldn't be an "advantage" unless that ship costs more in ISK than 1 plex is worth on the open market. The CSM said it was convinced that CCP did not plan to introduce gameplay-affecting items, then went on to make statements concerning "game destroying" changes. The wording of the latter part implies that ships without "different statistics from existing common hulls" could be sold, and the co-issue of selling items normally produced through in-game means from thin air and therefore bypassing production was not addressed.
I would be inclined to believe that this was clumbsy wording, despite the time taken to craft the perfect statement. The next big step is to wait for the CSM to get back home and start answering questions, and to get further questions the CSM might not be able to answer ready for the CCP press conferences on Tuesday.
To re-iterate what was said on air on EVE Radio last night:If you still have any further concerns following this devblog, please mail them to [email protected] and I will do my best to ask the CSM and to ask CCP at Tuesday's press conference.
Well I admit, if you "try" to read into what was posted or "betwen" the lines. You can find just about anything you want. They said Vanity Only. Last time I cecked when somene says only this, it meant ONLY, that is nothing else but the item/type referred to.
If you want t "read" into what wasn't posted, your call. But do try to also read what IS there.
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Coco Caine
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:31:00 -
[366]
I just had a look at it again. This NEX shop is so bad. I simply can't wrap my head around the fact. Can one of the story guys get it consistent somehow?
'And lo, Concord made monocles so awesome and indestructible, they are only available on the black market, like in every station, and the dealers will only take PLEX, cause that is sort of the big black market currency these days. And it's so awesome that Concord prevents you from having ANY monocle at all, it's even highly illegal to use a 5 ISK eye patch'.
'And then Concord also designed a jeans that look like all other jeans, but is like extremely cool, and costs like a battle cruiser. On the streets they call them THE PANTS'.
I'll give CCP a few weeks to take a bit of action, but I feel like biomassing my accounts for this fail of game design.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:31:00 -
[367]
"So you had to fly people all the way to Iceland before you could answer "Purely vanity items only".
lol, seriously. Anyone who believes this is a fool
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:31:00 -
[368]
Good job getting "commitments" riddled with loopholes from different people from the ones driving gold ammo.
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:32:00 -
[369]
So they could not clearly state that ther will never be anything beyond vanity items. Had to put in all the wiggle room.
Won't be resubbing any accts, just here trolling til Nov 15, unless CCP wants to give me a refund.
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:34:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Jason1138 "So you had to fly people all the way to Iceland before you could answer "Purely vanity items only".
lol, seriously. Anyone who believes this is a fool
yeah but problem is they still havent said a clear "NO"
they said "There are no plans, and have been no plans"
this still leaves open someone comming up with a plan.
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KrustyKrab
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:34:00 -
[371]
I read a very good, very long article from Vanity Fair about Iceland, their 'men', and how they think (and a bit of 'why' they think the way they do).
Vanity Fair - Full Article Text
My post and link isn't to bash CCP or any Icelander, but to hopefully let you gain some insight as to what the mindset is. A lot of us (Americans especially, which I am one) can't be asked to understand another culture, another way of thinking that might be different than our own.
Some might focus on the 'elves' bit, which was honestly a bit amusing, but no different than those in my country that still believe somehow that the earth is only 6,000 years old, or Iranians that believe the holocaust during WW2 never happened.
We have a good idea of the British mindset based on their history. We have a good idea of the German mindset based on their history. Same for America, Russia, etc. It is good to try and understand people of a different culture.
After reading the article, and I'll admit it is just one view (however to me, it is a very good view), I learned things that I honestly never knew before about Iceland.
What does this have to do with Eve and the current situation we find ourselves in? Maybe something, maybe nothing, but reading is good for you, and it might make you interested enough to cross-reference the info in the article with other articles and such (ie never get your info/news from a single source).
Anyway, carry on. Stuff goes here |
Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:35:00 -
[372]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
Return of ship spinning I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
Some form of ship spinning but not the old hangar like we want. Some vague time in the future.... everyone at CCP forget incarna was promised to be optional?
So you are going to 'investigate' people being able to run two clients at the same time? Why does it sound like already CCP is back-tracking from the info they just put out to appease us? Investigate = what? A year from now? We want the option of keeping our old hangar like we were promised.
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Dryderian Vex
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:35:00 -
[373]
In the video nothing is said about any questions raised in the last days, except that they discussed - it went well mostly with a bit of tension sometimes and that CCP is glad to have such a practical institution as the CSM. That's all and takes 10 minutes? For that you needed a vid?
And the blog also says nothing we didn't already knew. Oh no, they will address the performance issues with the CQ.
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Kial Riece
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:36:00 -
[374]
"trust, but verify"
Agreed!
Also, if I had flown over to Iceland with 3 days notice, dropped everything I was doing, gone through hours of discussion which I had prepared for with hours of my own time and then transcribed those hours into a statement to present to thousands of eager and patiently ( well, some!) waiting people holding torches and pitch forks, myself included!
I think a #*$~ load of drinks is acceptable to take the edge off?
I mean I would! Wouldn't you ?
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:36:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Coco Caine
'And lo, Concord made monocles so awesome and indestructible, they are only available on the black market, like in every station, and the dealers will only take PLEX, cause that is sort of the big black market currency these days. And it's so awesome that Concord prevents you from having ANY monocle at all, it's even highly illegal to use a 5 ISK eye patch'.
'And then Concord also designed a jeans that look like all other jeans, but is like extremely cool, and costs like a battle cruiser. On the streets they call them THE PANTS'.
Verily
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Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:37:00 -
[376]
Edited by: Sha Dar on 02/07/2011 18:37:53
Quote: and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
As soon as CQ is forced, i'm out. |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:37:00 -
[377]
So to sum up -
MT will be vanity only.
Shipspinning is gone, but we'l put something better than the door.
So you clammed up for a week, then took people out of their daily lives and flew them to iceland for that? You are aware that before CQ, you still had the option to not load the station environment right? Remember? It would show your ship in the hangar as a static picture... So umm, why did you change it to a door?
You left people angry for a week, then flew a group of people to iceland, when you could have just NOT changed the non-environment hangar to a door, and simply posted on the forums a "no, never more than vanity".
good job guys, real efficient.
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:37:00 -
[378]
Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
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Rebbecca Black
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:38:00 -
[379]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
See this is what ****es me off. CCP you are lying to me again. A year ago you used the EXACT SAME LANGUAGE to state that you have 'no plans' for micro-transactions. It's not 'we have no plans'.. its not 'there never have been plans'.. it's there NEVER WILL BE. If you use language that gives you wiggle room I just look at you like you're a lawyer or politician (for those of us living in the US it's the same thing.) What the **** did the CSM even go there to do if not ensure that there NEVER WILL BE.
Failed emergency summit is failed.
At least it happened on a Friday.
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Kingston Black
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:38:00 -
[380]
Dear god mittens, what did you do to poor ccp zulu???
His body language and the bags under his eyes alone
he looks like a battered spouse scared of what your gonna do next lol
poor guy
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:39:00 -
[381]
Dear CCP,
Please add a "facepalm" pose to the avatar editor so that my character can properly convey how I feel about this nonsense.
Love,
Me
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:39:00 -
[382]
Edited by: praznimrak on 02/07/2011 18:39:18 CCP please quit incarna!!! IT is a content that have nothing to do whit space ships and most of us players.There are toons of games out there that make ppl dress their avatar and stuff,in EVE we dont nead that. We play cose of space ships( i think i speak in name of most of players)and epic engagements,strategy and market.
Reconsider bans you did place an awesome ppl old players that did help make this game what it is today. And please Fire responsibly ppl for all the mess they did make. PRAZ
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XavierVE
Reasonable People
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:39:00 -
[383]
Thanks for stepping back from the brink, CCP.
Though this would have been easier and far more cost-effective had you just come out and said "No" to the big yellow question to start with.
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Juno Valchelza
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:40:00 -
[384]
I honestly don't get it. People re-subbing after reading this dev blog and saying "Thanks for clarifying the MT debacle."
Quote:
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Then you got the previous blog:
Quote:
However, just to prove the point of the Fearless newsletter and give you a further understanding of what it is then there are no and never have been plans to sell "gold ammo" for Aurum. In Fearless people are arguing a point, which doesn't even have to be their view, they are debating an issue. This is another example of how information out of context is no information at all.
AND THEN the one well before that, when they introduced the NeX:
Quote:
So this thing is vanity items only?
Yes. We will start out with a rather limited number of items initially, carefully measuring the demand and how it impacts the economy. As time progresses, we'll gradually introduce new items and revise our strategy. We've also discussed this issue in depth with the Council of Stellar Management and will both consult with them and keep them up to date every step of the way.
People still complain that CCP didn't state that there Will NEVER be MT with the NeX... Just unsub and quit. If you do it now and a year (or two) later CCP finally decides to introduce MT and pay-to-win, they would have lost revenue that could have been generated from your sub. Just quit now and leave.
As for the old station view... I HIGHLY DOUBT that CCP has anything ready yet, thus that's why they made that statement in the blog. My guess is a few months down the road if they divert resources to work on that.
I still enjoy reading these posts and shaking my head while laughing at this mess.
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Telven Stareal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:40:00 -
[385]
Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 02/07/2011 18:23:53 The language used seems deliberately opaque, especially the contrast between vanity items and 'game breaking items' (instead of vanity items and non-vanity items). It is also acknowledged that there is room for a 'grey area' between these two categories, which explains why an either/or formulation wasn't used. So my main question is, what is the potential content of the set of non-vanity and non-gamebreaking micro-transaction purchases? I can see some relatively unproblematic possibilities here, such as store-fronts/establishments but there also seems to be scope for more objectionable options.
To help us calibrate our instruments to the language being used could you elaborate on two possible examples, please?
1) Would the sale of faction standings be considered 'game-breaking'?
2) I know that CCP has committed not to introduce MT for remaps in the past but this was done after the intention to do so was first raised. Since this is a neutral issue, having already been dealt with, can you tell us whether these would have been considered 'game-breaking' or 'grey area' transactions?
Thank you.
Edit - Just saw this above:
Originally by: csm rep
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
Could you share this understanding with us please?
First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.
I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."
I really don't know how much more clear they can be..
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E6o5
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:41:00 -
[386]
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:42:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Lemming Lass
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
So, I see that it's not just CCP that misses the point.
I DON'T GIVE A FLIP ABOUT SPINNING THE SHIP.
Decanting to grab ammo is STUPID!
So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:42:00 -
[388]
Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 18:45:42
Originally by: Coco Caine I just had a look at it again. This NEX shop is so bad. I simply can't wrap my head around the fact. Can one of the story guys get it consistent somehow?
'And lo, Concord made monocles so awesome and indestructible, they are only available on the black market, like in every station, and the dealers will only take PLEX, cause that is sort of the big black market currency these days. And it's so awesome that Concord prevents you from having ANY monocle at all, it's even highly illegal to use a 5 ISK eye patch'.
'And then Concord also designed a jeans that look like all other jeans, but is like extremely cool, and costs like a battle cruiser. On the streets they call them THE PANTS'.
I'll give CCP a few weeks to take a bit of action, but I feel like biomassing my accounts for this fail of game design.
LOL...It's a real head scratcher.
Well, consider this, we are only trading with Capsuleers on the market. Up until June 21, we spent all of our time naked in our pods, a pair of jeans is worth a lot of money to us. :P
EDIT: Reply to Meissa Anunthiel
He means from a Role-Playing view point. Are we really going to get out of our pods just to pick up some cargo?
1) Dock 2) Eject Pod 3) Dock Pod to CQ Gantry 4) Drain Pod 5) Unplug from Pod 6) Get Dressed 7) Tell Minmatar Slaves to get cargo out of ship. (My main is amarrian.) 8) undress 9) Plug into Pod 10) Fill pod with goo 11) Undock Pod 12) Load Pod into Ship 13) Undock
Get it?
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:42:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Vile rat Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
AMEN - after all exactly one year ago they promised that there were no plans to do ANY micro-transactions yes?
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Janos Saal
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:42:00 -
[390]
Edited by: Janos Saal on 02/07/2011 18:43:44
Originally by: Vile rat Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
Back to square one.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
Back to square one. :( -
Originally by: CCP Zulu The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:42:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Nyphur on 02/07/2011 18:42:40
Originally by: Telven Stareal
Originally by: Nyphur To re-iterate what was said on air on EVE Radio last night:If you still have any further concerns following this devblog, please mail them to [email protected] and I will do my best to ask the CSM and to ask CCP at Tuesday's press conference.
Well I admit, if you "try" to read into what was posted or "betwen" the lines. You can find just about anything you want. They said Vanity Only. Last time I cecked when somene says only this, it meant ONLY, that is nothing else but the item/type referred to.
If you want t "read" into what wasn't posted, your call. But do try to also read what IS there.
Definitely agreed. The issue here is that CCP knew people would be TRYING to read between the lines, and the statement should have been designed to be robust under those circumstances. However, that's a tricky thing to do and the more productive option is to have the CSM and CCP answer any remaining questions, and release minutes of the meetings in Iceland. Both of these are happening, so this is pretty much the best resolution we could have hoped for given the crcumstances.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:43:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:44:00 -
[393]
Originally by: XavierVE Thanks for stepping back from the brink, CCP.
Though this would have been easier and far more cost-effective had you just come out and said "No" to the big yellow question to start with.
they haven't said no yet
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Eclorc
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:45:00 -
[394]
CCP Still HAS NOT answered NO to the big yellow question.
not only is there the other wiggle room crud, but now theres a new get-out clause manufactured before our very eyes:
"investment of money...should not give you an unfair advantage...CSM,under NDA...agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle"
This can be argued now that any for-advantage item can be traded for PLEX AFTER purchase.
I guess the answer to yellow question is "YES" form them, which we knew but wanted the honset answer. Moving on. Bye Eve, it was fun while your brain still worked
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:45:00 -
[395]
Pay to win has been in EvE ever since PLEX was introduced. If I can go buy 3500 dollars worth of GTCs, an then have 200 PLEXES to sell on the market, at 350mill a PLEX (not sure of the current price), that is 70 billion isk. I can then go to the character bizarre, buy just about ANY toon I want, an should have enough left over for a super carrier, or maybe even a titan, (no clue anymore what either cost).
Now, EvE doesn't have Pay to win? Who are you trying to convince us or yourselves? You sure as hell aren't convincing me! A had a couple choice adjectives to add about what I think about you, but I will refrain from throwing stones.
Gets real tiring when you think we are all cattle an can be herded.
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:46:00 -
[396]
Originally by: KrustyKrab I read a very good, very long article from Vanity Fair about Iceland, their 'men', and how they think (and a bit of 'why' they think the way they do).
Vanity Fair - Full Article Text
My post and link isn't to bash CCP or any Icelander, but to hopefully let you gain some insight as to what the mindset is. A lot of us (Americans especially, which I am one) can't be asked to understand another culture, another way of thinking that might be different than our own.
Some might focus on the 'elves' bit, which was honestly a bit amusing, but no different than those in my country that still believe somehow that the earth is only 6,000 years old, or Iranians that believe the holocaust during WW2 never happened.
We have a good idea of the British mindset based on their history. We have a good idea of the German mindset based on their history. Same for America, Russia, etc. It is good to try and understand people of a different culture.
After reading the article, and I'll admit it is just one view (however to me, it is a very good view), I learned things that I honestly never knew before about Iceland.
What does this have to do with Eve and the current situation we find ourselves in? Maybe something, maybe nothing, but reading is good for you, and it might make you interested enough to cross-reference the info in the article with other articles and such (ie never get your info/news from a single source).
Anyway, carry on.
Wow just wow.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:47:00 -
[397]
I mean, lets boil this down: CCP refused to commit to no non-vanity transactions. They then came out with a statement that seemed to do so but was carefully worded to not actually commit to non-vanity transactions.
Now, after two days of "talks" (with the devs, not the suits who would push gold ammo through) they give a statement still worded to carefully allow future non-vanity transactions.
That's about as clear as you can get. The CSM was hoodwinked.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:47:00 -
[398]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
(...)
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:47:00 -
[399]
Originally by: Telven Stareal
First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.
I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."
I really don't know how much more clear they can be..
Bolded and underlined the relevant part for you. You do see that by acknowledging a class of grey area transactions they have not said there will be no non-vanity items. It seems entirely possible that 'convenience' purchases, especially those that relate to services rather than items, such as extra fitting slots or faction standings, might be sold through a mechanism other than the NeX store. If they intended 'game breaking' to cover all non-vanity purchases a) why not say that, and b) where could there possibly be any grey areas?
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:47:00 -
[400]
As expected, the people who wanted to quit are quitting, after reading everything as double-talk, just like they did with the Sunday devBlog.
Is that sort of hard-line cynicism really that enjoyable? I'd think that kind of mindset would result in an ulcer or aneurism rather readily.
For those people, here's an important message from your local services:
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
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Charles Javeroux
Gallente INTERSTELLAR CREDIT
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:48:00 -
[401]
HOORAY for the end of the "Drama Season". Can we now all be friends and love each other <3 <3 <3
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Baroness D
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:48:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Baroness D on 02/07/2011 18:49:15 You still didn't answer the much greater problems with CCP.
-You suck at being open and clear with information to your players. You dump everything on us at the last minute and assume we're not gonna complain. Ex. Why do patch notes come out 2 hrs before the patch? And before you assume that patch notes are the problem they are not. They are just indicative of the the problem.
-Your customer service is terrible. 6 days to answer a petition? Half the time the answer is wrong. Getting even the smallest reimbursement is a fight. And you make statements on the forums then reverse them without explanation. Like dual character training after a character transfer.
-You offer NO COMPENSATION to players for any losses or miscommunication. No matter what goes wrong your attitude is that its the players fault not CCP's. When you introduced the free day worth of spare skill points you made it sound like it would be done whenever there was a hiccup with the server but then never did it again. Again returning to the idea that you had a problem but its not your fault so players just have to suffer.
-I know of players who have been banned without notice or explanation and you assume CCP's right while the player is wrong. You offer no communication or explanation on the matter forcing people to spam the forums. Yet 0.0 continues to be filled with ratting bots that seem to have been operational for month. I know I've killed a few.
-I will continue to unsub all my accounts until CCP changes there entire attitude and starts treating players like customers, not tax payers.
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Flynn Fetladral
Caldari BlackSite Prophecy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:49:00 -
[403]
My thanks goes to all the CSM members who dropped everything and flew out to the ends of the earth to set this whole mess strait. Thank you CCP for the commitments you have pledged too. I've looking forward to spinning ships again. It's totally clear, more than ever, and I hope CCP you have learned this time that communication is the key. Much of this backlash, as Mittens said in the video is 'players' unfounded fears (myself included) running riot due to that lack of communication.
Now we can all get back to the serious business of Internet Spaceships. Follow Flynn on Twitter |
Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:50:00 -
[404]
To those referring to CCP Shadow's previous statement:
That was an edited forum post, not an official dev blog or statement.
At the time CCP Shadow may not have been privy to any discussion or plans to implement the NeX store in EVE Online.
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Janos Saal
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:50:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose Pay to win has been in EvE ever since PLEX was introduced. If I can go buy 3500 dollars worth of GTCs, an then have 200 PLEXES to sell on the market, at 350mill a PLEX (not sure of the current price), that is 70 billion isk. I can then go to the character bizarre, buy just about ANY toon I want, an should have enough left over for a super carrier, or maybe even a titan, (no clue anymore what either cost).
Now, EvE doesn't have Pay to win? Who are you trying to convince us or yourselves? You sure as hell aren't convincing me! A had a couple choice adjectives to add about what I think about you, but I will refrain from throwing stones.
Gets real tiring when you think we are all cattle an can be herded.
Firstly I would just like to point out that you are spectacularly ****ing stupid.
Secondly, here's why:
EVERY SINGLE ITEM YOU BUY WITH YOUR PLEX MONEY WAS MADE, BOUGHT OR FOUND BY PLAYERS. THE CHARACTER YOU BUY WITH YOUR PLEX MONEY WAS TRAINED OVER TIME BY A PLAYER. EVERYTHING YOU BUY IS CREATED THROUGH THE EVE ECONOMY. PAYING CCP $10 FOR A GOLD SCOPR WHICH IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR BYPASSES THE ECONOMY. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
I hope you found this post informative. Please report to your nearest hospital for sterilization. -
Originally by: CCP Zulu The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:51:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu To those referring to CCP Shadow's previous statement:
That was an edited forum post, not an official dev blog or statement.
At the time CCP Shadow may not have been privy to any discussion or plans to implement the NeX store in EVE Online.
I didn't know CCPs lawyers played EvE too.
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Kellath Eladrel
Minmatar Future Corps
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:52:00 -
[407]
I don't understand why people are satisfied. If there ever were gameplay-affecting MTs this game would die. That was never the question.
The question to me was whether CCP would make any compromises or concessions or whether they would continue on their holy vision for profit while ignoring gameplay issues which I would prefer developers spend their time on. Turns out they will not change anything.
CQ graphical issues will not be resolved. All that fancy rendering and particle effects is right on target for 1 client at low settings. Does CCP think that this engine will work in a multiplayer environment? Do they care that this awesome new feature has made docking completely unfeasible on many machines unless you turn it off?
NeX prices will not be changed. $50 for clothing accessories is fine, they'll just flesh out the lower end of the market.
The attitude of CCP, that what they have done is perfect and does not need to be worked on, has not changed. _____ Five card stud, nothing wild. And the sky's the limit... |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:52:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Vile rat Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
Thanks for the honesty!!!!!!
Now Can someone on the CSM or with CCP please define the following statement made by CSM member Meissa Anunthiel in post 335 in this thread:
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
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Janos Saal
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:52:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
I didn't know CCPs lawyers played EvE too.
There's a lot you don't know. -
Originally by: CCP Zulu The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
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Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:53:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu To those referring to CCP Shadow's previous statement:
That was an edited forum post, not an official dev blog or statement.
At the time CCP Shadow may not have been privy to any discussion or plans to implement the NeX store in EVE Online.
I didn't know CCPs lawyers played EvE too.
LOL...Again with that sort of response?
It's simple fact.
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Jonathan Malcom
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:53:00 -
[411]
CCP "$1000 Pants" Zulu.
Consider it a term of endearment.
Like CCP "Emergency Reboot" Tuxford.
Or CCP "I Eat Babies" Soundwave. ___________________
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Desdicado
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:54:00 -
[412]
My 2 cents
Sorry CCP you lost me and my friends
We will NOT come back to EVE online as I see a MAJOR flaw and missuse of words from your part and I will use your own words against you in this case.
"Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40 Just for clarification, the skillpoints CCP will be giving pilots to make up for the extended downtime in this case is not tied to microtransactions.
Editing to add this: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE."
Almost exactly 1 year ago this was written and today we have it in one form or another...no matter if Vanity only at this point.
This was posted today by CCP:
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
You continue to use the same word "plan" and I can see why you must. If you didn't you would corner yourselfs and could have an even greater problem then you seem to have today in the near future.
Me and my freinds play alot of games and I been playing online games for over 15 years now. Whit todays standard you choose one of the two methods, either you go f2p whit stores or you go subsciptions. Doing both is just gready in most players eyes so those games often lose thier player base and dies out quickly.
If you had spent the amount of time in fixing the bugs and actually listened to what we told you for the last couple of years you wouldn't have been in this situation you as a company is today.
So my endwords goes to those I played whit, Svea Rike best Swedish corp in EVE and to Oberon Inc of Morsus Mihi thanks guys been a blast last couple of years.
/Desdicado - most of you died too my drake...so don't say they are useless :)
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:54:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Janos Saal
Originally by: Stephanie Rose Pay to win has been in EvE ever since PLEX was introduced. If I can go buy 3500 dollars worth of GTCs, an then have 200 PLEXES to sell on the market, at 350mill a PLEX (not sure of the current price), that is 70 billion isk. I can then go to the character bizarre, buy just about ANY toon I want, an should have enough left over for a super carrier, or maybe even a titan, (no clue anymore what either cost).
Now, EvE doesn't have Pay to win? Who are you trying to convince us or yourselves? You sure as hell aren't convincing me! A had a couple choice adjectives to add about what I think about you, but I will refrain from throwing stones.
Gets real tiring when you think we are all cattle an can be herded.
Firstly I would just like to point out that you are spectacularly ****ing stupid.
Secondly, here's why:
EVERY SINGLE ITEM YOU BUY WITH YOUR PLEX MONEY WAS MADE, BOUGHT OR FOUND BY PLAYERS. THE CHARACTER YOU BUY WITH YOUR PLEX MONEY WAS TRAINED OVER TIME BY A PLAYER. EVERYTHING YOU BUY IS CREATED THROUGH THE EVE ECONOMY. PAYING CCP $10 FOR A GOLD SCOPR WHICH IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR BYPASSES THE ECONOMY. THIS IS THE PROBLEM.
I hope you found this post informative. Please report to your nearest hospital for sterilization.
Its about buying an advantage, are you really that dumb? Pay to Win has more then one meaning, but your obviously too short sighted to comprehend.
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:54:00 -
[414]
I have one concern, while I do like the total sci-fi direction Incarna is headed, many others have correctly pointed out the lack of functionality.
While the dev blog stated that a new hanger "will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality", I hope CCP takes this a step farther than just similar functionality. By that I don't mean reproduce the old hanger, I mean that all previous functionality should be there. In other words, it can look different for all I care, but I don't want my shortcuts taken away. I've found, especially when trying to swap ships as quickly as possible to join a combat op, that I can't tell what ship I'm in for instance. I can't double click the background to open my cargohold, etc.
I hope CCP's dev blog addresses these issues, and most importantly at this stage, listens to any comments the players make in response to that dev blog so that they can be taken into consideration before production has started and it becomes too late.
Other than this, I'm happy to hear that there are no plans for game breaking micro-transactions, which was one of the primary concerns. I'm disappointed that the statement wasn't "there NEVER will be", but I understand that from a business perspective making a promise like that isn't possible.
I'll be looking forward to the minutes and any new blogs that get published, and I'll be resubbing.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:55:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.
*THAT* answers both those concerns.
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:56:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Lemming Lass
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
So, I see that it's not just CCP that misses the point.
I DON'T GIVE A FLIP ABOUT SPINNING THE SHIP.
Decanting to grab ammo is STUPID!
So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
It is about both. But both have not been addressed. If they have, please point to where CCP's statement addressed the issue of why it makes any sense at all as far as game immersion to force a pod pilot to get out of a ship, get out of a pod and into some clothes just to grab some ammo or switch a module and then get out of the clothes, back into the pod, and back into the ship to fly again.
It's a simple thing really, and skirting around the issue and implying that if performance criteria is met then WiS will be mandatory each dock makes no sense unless there are reasons CCP think they've got to compel all players to do at least a bit of Barbie and Ken dress up time. I actually understand that desire on the part of CCP, but for the love of New Eden, find another reason than "evey dock" to get players to walk around a bit.
At this point, the only hope I have is that there's no way CCP will actually make WiS performance match pre-Incarna hanger view levels. But I bet they'll find a "close enough" point and remove the hanger stage.
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Spanking Monkeys
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:57:00 -
[417]
Quote: We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.
is that the same soon as were used to with ccp? is that the same soon that actually means never?
this performance issue needs addressing now, not ****ing later or soon or never as thats what soon basicly means with ccp. 8 accounts will drop to 4 and then to 2. plex time for all 8 run out in aug, if soon isnt by then, bye bye eve
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Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:58:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.
The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.
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Lucilia Mercapone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:58:00 -
[419]
I don't like the wiggle room 'game breaking' brings into the picture. However I don't think special items will ever enter eve through NEX. I could imagine that CCP keeps this wiggle room for things like faction standing or something like that. So I still have some concerns.
But: I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our devs do and less of what they say.
I think I will resubscribe my core accounts but no more 6 month or 12 month plans.
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Veryez
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:58:00 -
[420]
Quote: The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time
Say what you want about the Blog and the video, but this line speaks volumes. It's something very important to me, in many ways it goes to the very core of EvE. EvE isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. As a player, I am passionate about EvE, and have brought quite a few others into the game. Real players don't play for 6 months, we play for years, we get EvE. This is what needed to be said, to me at least. I'm not saying that everything is well, but that this was the step needed for me to rebuild trust. It was certainly a step in the correct direction. I will watch what you do as well as what you say, but as a first step this was a good one.
Thank you to the CSM members who were able to drop their personal lives and flew to Iceland to represent us. For those who were there via video conferencing/skype thank you too. You are a credit to the community. This couldn't have been easy on you, and I for one appreciate it.
To CCP Zulu and his team, Thank you for listening to your players (through our CSM) and taking the time to understand what our issues are, for understanding our passion. CCP is a company and will do what it thinks is in its best intrests, I understand and completely accept that, but listening is hard, and your statements and video show that you did listen and I commend you for that.
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Zen Sarum
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:59:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Zen Sarum on 02/07/2011 19:02:48 'It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.'
So... you do not plan to introduce game breaking items and enhancements in the vanity store, clarify this for the whole eve universe.
I believe the full answer to 'NO TO PAY $ TO WIN?' is not answered:
1. No direct pay $ to win anywhere in eve (not just in this store) beyond current plex.
2. I am pretty sure for DUST the notes CCP put out talked about being able to buy equipment and items with $ and that DUST will affect 0.0 sov?
3. Also 'not planned' doesn't mean anything to me, I don't plan to work till I retire, it'll happen though. I had hoped for a NEVER.
Just write these words add it to your mission statement:
NEVER ANY DIRECT PAY $ TO GAIN ANY UNFAIR DIRECT ADVANTAGE ANYWHERE IN EVE OR ANY GAMES WHICH ARE CONNECTED TO IT, EVER.
Or just give us the dirt and let us decide individually if we want to keep funding it.
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Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:59:00 -
[422]
Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.
The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw
Enjoy!
@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.
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Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.07.02 18:59:00 -
[423]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar. ---*THAT* answers both those concerns.
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
----- FROM THE BLOG -----
Quote: "and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance."
That's what the problem is !! - They STILL plan to force CQ usage by removing the option not to use it. |
Sorela
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:00:00 -
[424]
Edited by: Sorela on 02/07/2011 19:00:07 Wow this does nothing to address the other equally important stuff. You had a CSM summit just so you could say "no"? WTF? How about discussing the total lack of new content and lack of any planned new content?
- How many years till hybrids are fixed?
- How many years till we get more new ships?
- How many years till a million other problems are addressed?
The last CSM prior to this one said we basically weren't getting anything for 18 months except this amazing Incarna stuff.
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Ned Black
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:00:00 -
[425]
This statement really met every expectation I had to this CSM meeting :D
The statement is completely filled with nothingness... which was what I expected.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:01:00 -
[426]
Edited by: Dalketh on 02/07/2011 19:01:26
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.
*THAT* answers both those concerns.
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
I don't want to speak for him, but I think what he is talking about is people want the old hangar back, as Incarna was said to be optional. Staring at a door and not having full functionality is crap.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:02:00 -
[427]
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu To those referring to CCP Shadow's previous statement:
That was an edited forum post, not an official dev blog or statement.
At the time CCP Shadow may not have been privy to any discussion or plans to implement the NeX store in EVE Online.
If a Dev posts it in a thread well it came from a dev.. Just because it isn't in a blog doesn't mean it doesn't count... That logic would mean that POS bowling is still legal and that CCP dev closing threads is not a CCP supported activity... wtf dude...
Read the post... CCP Shadow is the one that editted and explained his edit... Not to mention the "WE" he is referring to is ccp...
LINKING THE ORIGINAL NO TO MT THREAD ONE MORE TIME FOR THE NUMPTY I QUOTED Dev posts are 7,16,20,31
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:02:00 -
[428]
Originally by: BeanBagKing I have one concern, while I do like the total sci-fi direction Incarna is headed, many others have correctly pointed out the lack of functionality.
I, for one, have pointed out many times, that the current incarnation of Incarna is just the beginning, of course. Soon as that CQ door opens, and we'll be connected to the rest of the station, we'll have a space game which is way more advanced and visually stunning than anything currently in existence. Mass Effect character creator is a joke compared to what Incarna offers.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Jawmare
Minmatar The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[429]
FREE HELICITY FREE LIANG FREE ANGEL HUN
DON'T STOP POASTING
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Oedepus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[430]
When can we expect to see a change in the Hanger? Please clarify the statements regarding some form of the old hanger and what functionality will be included. If it's just ship spinning then that's about worthless! If it's the old hanger functionality then GREAT! I'm all in. Please clarify WHAT will be reintroduced and how. Your all about Agile development give us the user stories around this issue. What sprints will they be in and what is the projected deployment date?
While the CSM repsonse addressed the leaked email from Mr. Hilmar there was no reference to this in the CCP response. That email was almost as inciteful as the Fearless news letter and STILL NEEDS to be addressed.
Plan, Plans are current terminology and leaves ALOT of room for future changes. Nice legal grey wording there. The big question about non-vanity items could still be views as open since this is not a definate yes/no answer. Will look for, a hopefully near future, release of the promised information on this topic.
As it stands now my accounts will remain unsubbed and will remain so until such time as better answers and actions are envoked by CCP.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[431]
While RP and immersion are big prioritys. Some teams are not fixing the small stuff becouse they know that almost complete is a feature that will couse them to have to change the wording of all the status messages again.
Team BFF is doing a good job going back over the missions and cleaning up all the texts. When they get to the station UI part of it they will clean up all the RP elements to. Thanks to people like you I am sure they have a long list of stuff they can tweak. When they get it fixed it will be sweet though.
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Delta Jax
NixCraft IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[432]
Edited by: Delta Jax on 02/07/2011 19:05:57 CCP {devs},
I'll give you an A for effort on the dev blog, but I think what a lot of players would like to hear is how the unsub/unrest rate went high enough to make some people start sweating. It, obviously, was enough for you fly out the csm for a little get together.
That said, this is just a statement, But this is part of the communication problem that you/we have been talking about.
For example, there is a reason we love the dev blogs where a dev is talking about this awesome new coding style/process that is going to improve the game even if by a marginal rate. This shows a commitment, a passion, emotional investment, in what they are doing.
All in all, I don't want to sound like I/we aren't forgiving, We've started down the road of rebuilding the trust between players and CCP, trust that is earned, and the video was a great start.
If you guys made short regular appearances on eve radio, or something, just to talk about the latest developments of what ever it is your doing; take a few questions, interact with players on their level, you would earn some major brownie points with everyone.
I understand that this would be somewhat extra "work", but what do you say?
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Jilly Serkov
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Jilly Serkov on 02/07/2011 19:03:11
Originally by: BeanBagKing I have one concern, while I do like the total sci-fi direction Incarna is headed, many others have correctly pointed out the lack of functionality.
While the dev blog stated that a new hanger "will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality", I hope CCP takes this a step farther than just similar functionality. By that I don't mean reproduce the old hanger, I mean that all previous functionality should be there. In other words, it can look different for all I care, but I don't want my shortcuts taken away. I've found, especially when trying to swap ships as quickly as possible to join a combat op, that I can't tell what ship I'm in for instance. I can't double click the background to open my cargohold, etc. ....
The ship you are in has a white box round it in the ship hangar list, and you can double click that to open cargo (and right click it for other options if its a capital) . Why isn't this enough? Jeez ...
@ Navigator, good job (even if you are just the messenger).
My only concern is a lot of trust has been placed in the CSM (even if it is backed by a NDA). Lets hope THEY live up to their responsibilities, just as much as we hope CCP will stand by their commitment to handle things better in future.
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Tipsy
Gallente X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:03:00 -
[434]
I'm glad that CCP has begun to move back towards the light, and I look forward to reading the meeting minutes and to better communication from CCP in future. Now where was I?
Originally by: CCP Navigator Return of ship spinning <snip> The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
This must be acted upon as a priority. CCP should never have removed this functionality in the first place and there will be a lot of unhappy people if we have to wait months for this to be restored.
Players do not feel this way just because of an 'emotional connection' as the blog said - Incarna is too slow for low-end machines, it takes longer to do the things we could do in the hangar view and it breaks immersion to force us to leave our ships if we just want to change ammo/a module/drop something off. We should be able to dock and stay in the hangar view or go straight to Captain's Quarters if we wish. Please don't force Incarna upon us after saying it would be optional.
I would like clarity on a time frame for the hangar view's return and some idea of how it will be different from what we used to have.
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Callidus Dux
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:04:00 -
[435]
Edited by: Callidus Dux on 02/07/2011 19:06:39 I am very satisfied. It was the answer I excpected. MY personal demand will be fulfilled, in parts.
We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. I think, that a permanent option would be better. But we will see.
There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The only acceptable and right answer. Thank you CCP.
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Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:04:00 -
[436]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu To those referring to CCP Shadow's previous statement:
That was an edited forum post, not an official dev blog or statement.
At the time CCP Shadow may not have been privy to any discussion or plans to implement the NeX store in EVE Online.
If a Dev posts it in a thread well it came from a dev.. Just because it isn't in a blog doesn't mean it doesn't count... That logic would mean that POS bowling is still legal and that CCP dev closing threads is not a CCP supported activity... wtf dude...
Read the post... CCP Shadow is the one that editted and explained his edit... Not to mention the "WE" he is referring to is ccp...
LINKING THE ORIGINAL NO TO MT THREAD ONE MORE TIME FOR THE NUMPTY I QUOTED Dev posts are 7,16,20,31
He is still just the Community Manager for DUST 514. And with respect to the people in this thread about the definition of the word "plan(s)", he could still not have been aware of any plans other developers within CCP were considering.
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Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:05:00 -
[437]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Why didn't you just say this last Friday when people asked whether you would introduce those items?
A simple: "No, we will not introduce non-vanity items in the NeX store!" would have cleared up everything!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Kazini Jax
Gallente Starlight Operations Starlight Network
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:06:00 -
[438]
Originally by: Vile rat Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
This, with one comment..
If CCP has no plans to introduce non-vanity items (at this time) then.. why does the newsletter exist at all?
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:06:00 -
[439]
THANK YOU. <3 ________________
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:07:00 -
[440]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The major problem is that right now it takes longer to dock to Incarna (more resources must be loaded) and some functionality that the classic hangar view had isn't there -- so for example it's harder to dock, unload ore, and get back into space for more exciting mining action. And of course, no ship spinning.
The shorter-term fix is adding something similar to classic hangar view that has those features (and of course, ship spinning) and can load faster. You will be able to dock to that, or to Incarna, or go between them.
At some point in time, Incarna will also have all the missing features (including ship spinning) *and* can load in a similar amount of time to classic hangar view. At that point, CCP may remove the new hangar view (you might, for example, enter incarna looking at your ship, right in front of you ready to be spun). My personal attitude is that I'd prefer they didn't, but if they come up with something awesome, it might become a moot point.
I like Trebors take on it best and this is the finished state I want.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:07:00 -
[441]
Even while CCP are looking into making something similar to the classic hangar functionality for people not using Incarna - Plz also look into enhancing Incarna with some of the old features too.
- Ship Spinning
- Drag to activate from Ship hangar
- Right click on ship -> options menu
- Try not to have windows covering over the new 3D clicky buttons
Pinky Denmark -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:07:00 -
[442]
The problem is that CQ is being forced onto us, some of us dont' mind the CQ I don't.. I like it but I don't like the Load Times, the performance hit or the fact I can't Dual Client anymore..
I also don't like the fact that I've had a lot of function taken away from me, I don't see how it makes sense in context of the game's 'universe' either..
Nor as a Programmer and 3d artist do I see how/why they can not simply reactivate the existing code, given said code is still in use in space and should unless some one was effectively very STUIPID exist within the Codebase.
Lastly I have a problem with the fact that the CSM and CCP seem to be hung up on one minor issue (RMT) rather then the fact that CCP has promised things now for years and broken those promises again and again while apparently openly discussing breaking them behind our backs.
You are meant to be our voice and yet all we get from you most of the time is 'Ohh they have sweet stuff coming but it's all under NDA' really if you are our 'voice' and our 'eyes' then anything YOU get to see / hear WE should also have access to.. you can't have an open and transperant system with out it.. think of it as the same as ohhh the Freedom of Information Act.. We don't have that, we can't demand access to what you do, we can only go 'please sir may we have a tad bit' and while that exists there is no reason for us to believe a lot of what is in this, simply because we can't verify anything your claiming can we?
And no that's not tin foil it's just common sense, your democratically elected.. to be what our voice to a dictatorship apparently, where information is not freely traded.
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.
*THAT* answers both those concerns.
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
- Juil Phoenix Industries
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:08:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Sarina Berghil I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
Members of the CSM have already divulged having seen the CQ for the other races; so we'll see at least those. And in an early dev blog (god knows which one) CCP said they planned on having us meet agents in station, and fellow capsuleers.
Plans do have a way of changing at CCP, though; but if they stick to these, I'm sure it will be great. Epic, I'm guessing.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Aineko Stryer
Minmatar Aineko Accelerando Labs
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:08:00 -
[444]
Good enough for me
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Adakis Fenikkusu
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:09:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Why didn't you just say this last Friday when people asked whether you would introduce those items?
A simple: "No, we will not introduce non-vanity items in the NeX store!" would have cleared up everything!
Probably because the community exploded after the leak and they also had internal affairs to deal with, they decided to let the community settle down, then release more concise information about a lot of things, instead of just one thing.
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Ein Phantom
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:09:00 -
[446]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh As expected, the people who wanted to quit are quitting, after reading everything as double-talk, just like they did with the Sunday devBlog.
Is that sort of hard-line cynicism really that enjoyable?
You mean doublespeak.
GENIUS
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TheLastZmeul
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:09:00 -
[447]
Edited by: TheLastZmeul on 02/07/2011 19:10:05
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
CCP, I call it a lie!
if no existed, exist or will be, then why the hell are there even mentions of "gold ammo" and other similar things, even if "internally" or hypothetically"
I do not believe you!
also I do not see a response regarding the possible financial situation CCP might be or is in right now, situation discussed over the forums
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Sellendis
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:09:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
Doesnt this sound stupid? So instead of docking to hangar and then docking to CQ by another button, we dock to CQ and then walk to our room and the door that leads to hanger/spinning stuff???
I dont get it, it still sounds like forcing CQ onto people. Free Helicity Boson
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:09:00 -
[449]
Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 02/07/2011 19:09:36
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
how hard would it be to return toteh old view and a disembark button?. what you have planned makes no sence, will take way more time and man power than adding a button. do you lot just like wasting money and time in iceland?
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
Please do tell how you were convinced. You obviously have heard some sort of argument that might help a lot of people understand.
I myself is mostly annoyed that I am forced to take part of Incarna. It would be like being forced to take part of FW. I did for example not care about CCP making FW because I know some like it, but if they decided to force it upon me then I would get pretty annoyed.
I simply have no interest in Incarna, at least not now, and as far as I can tell Incarna is a WoD test (which is okay) and a MT store. I leave Eve and the player controlled market and enter Incarna and the MT world. I don't want to do that. If Incarna give me something I am interested in (perhaps poker) then I might want to leave Eve and step out into Incarna, but I am of the opinion that it should be my choice.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.
The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw
Enjoy!
@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.
PER CCP-- dust 514 is going to impact 0.0 sov mechanics..... That means the MT based Dust players will impact the Eve world with $$ for advantage... CCP has been side stepping this question since the RPS interview here: RPS Dust interview
"RPS: So, if IÆm an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?
Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. WeÆve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."
MT for advantage by proxy.... That is why some of us don't buy your current statements.....
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.
*THAT* answers both those concerns.
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
You missed the most important part of the statement.
and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
So I ask again, are you trolling?
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Draahk Chimera
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 -
[453]
This looks very good to me. No "gold ammo" or the like. Also a recognition that there are grey areas but if any grey area is approached they will ask the CSM how they feel. I would like to extend my thanks to the CSM delegates who ran off to Iceland on a 3 day notice on my and other's behalf. The one thing that still concerns me is the Hilmar letter of course but I guess that will never be adressed.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:10:00 -
[454]
Originally by: CCP Navigator A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.
To read the blog in full, please click on this link.
This does the minimum that needed to be done.
I'll still be watching what you do, rather than what you say, but I will at least keep watching.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Dr Valeri
Royal Khanid Engineering
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:11:00 -
[455]
ey guys, no game-breaking MT.
Why are you still *MAD*?
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Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:11:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 02/07/2011 19:09:36
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
how hard would it be to return toteh old view and a disembark button?. what you have planned makes no sence, will take way more time and man power than adding a button. do you lot just like wasting money and time in iceland?
No, they just insist on forcing us all to Beta test the WOD engine and play barbies in space... |
Telven Stareal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:12:00 -
[457]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Telven Stareal
First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.
I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."
I really don't know how much more clear they can be..
Bolded and underlined the relevant part for you. You do see that by acknowledging a class of grey area transactions they have not said there will be no non-vanity items. It seems entirely possible that 'convenience' purchases, especially those that relate to services rather than items, such as extra fitting slots or faction standings, might be sold through a mechanism other than the NeX store. If they intended 'game breaking' to cover all non-vanity purchases a) why not say that, and b) where could there possibly be any grey areas?
I can admit you have a valid point. However, only because you are looking for what isn't being said. You do realize we could spin it another way all together, right?
You could say, they plan on stopping the sale of plex and requiring all Aur to be RMT. After all, they didn't address what is going to happen to plex. Or you could say they are going to release a second store that will offer non vanity items, as you are hinting at (or something like that).
The primary issue here is what "you" take a way from what was posted. If you look for what isn't said and ignore what was said. You can get almost anything you want from it. Anyone with intelligence can do this.
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ISquishWorms
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:12:00 -
[458]
Well I am happy with the outcome thanks CCP and CSM for finding some common ground and thrashing this all out for us.
I can now get back to playing the game I love most.
Did I read the blog right though that we will still be loosing ship spinning once CQ performance has been improved to a satifactory level?
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:13:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Why didn't you just say this last Friday when people asked whether you would introduce those items?
A simple: "No, we will not introduce non-vanity items in the NeX store!" would have cleared up everything!
Probably because the community exploded after the leak and they also had internal affairs to deal with, they decided to let the community settle down, then release more concise information about a lot of things, instead of just one thing.
Your nose is getting more and more brown with every post you make. Must be a character creator glitch.
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Sha Dar
eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 -
[460]
Originally by: ISquishWorms Well I am happy with the outcome thanks CCP and CSM for finding some common ground and thrashing this all out for us.
I can now get back to playing the game I love most.
Did I read the blog right though that we will still be loosing ship spinning once CQ performance has been improved to a satifactory level?
"and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance."
It seems so yes. |
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Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar Caldari Investment and Security Industries Innovia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Wingi You have definitely clarified your position, its too late for me, that does not mean that i distrust what you say i guess i have been unhappy with the direction of eve since the announcement of dust. Plus i have found another home, i do believe you need a good competitor for the sake of eve and sandbox mmo's in general. My 3 accounts still go, but i think you have done enough to save the game well done CSM and CCP :)
Fly safe...
I never really thought i would see someone upset about the "A Future Vision" video... everyone else was really excited about it...
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Tichu Tilyon
Ordo Drakonis Nulli Tertius
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:14:00 -
[462]
Omg, was that so hard to begin with? You(CCP) needed the CSM to hold your hand to resolve the problems properly?
Anyways, thx for the info CCP/CSM looking foward to ship spining again! ùùù ôWe want to try this thing called micro-transactions, but we don't know what it is. Can anyone explainà aw screw it, let's just do it! What could go wrong?ö ù ÇÇP |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
The most ridiculous bit about this whole hangar argument is that *I* was the one getting all mad at :ccp: when I thought they didn't understand the whole problem with mandatory InCarna docking. I've been convinced, so please rephrase your issue in clearly defined terms so I can answer them appropriately and kill this.
Please do tell how you were convinced. You obviously have heard some sort of argument that might help a lot of people understand.
I myself is mostly annoyed that I am forced to take part of Incarna. It would be like being forced to take part of FW. I did for example not care about CCP making FW because I know some like it, but if they decided to force it upon me then I would get pretty annoyed.
I simply have no interest in Incarna, at least not now, and as far as I can tell Incarna is a WoD test (which is okay) and a MT store. I leave Eve and the player controlled market and enter Incarna and the MT world. I don't want to do that. If Incarna give me something I am interested in (perhaps poker) then I might want to leave Eve and step out into Incarna, but I am of the opinion that it should be my choice.
This is basically what we are talking about. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 -
[464]
The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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d4shing
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:16:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: CCP Navigator A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.
To read the blog in full, please click on this link.
This does the minimum that needed to be done.
I'll still be watching what you do, rather than what you say, but I will at least keep watching.
x2
Don't know why you needed people to come to iceland to make careful and statements about how you won't break the game and don't currently have plans for non-vanity MTs (you didn't have any plans for any MTs at all less than a year ago, so that's worthless)...
Has CCP ever considered that the problem might be that they're trying to make more money from a game without making it more fun to play, and that's inherently a very stupid and counter-productive route? What if you just made the game better, instead of trying to wring it dry to fund WoD and DUST?
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Gevlin
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 -
[466]
I am saddened by the no sale of Gold bullets. I was looking forward to ammo that did 1/2 the damage of Iron Sabbots rounds and cost 100x as much.
If shot - the victim would have a message pop up on his screen saying:
"You have been shot by ammo with more than your ship - You have been Blinged"
here we go again! |
Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.
The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw
Enjoy!
@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.
Thats not a vision, thats a commercial for Dust. We have even been told parts of it is misleading. Most of those CCP videos go for a style with some freedom to dig into backstory more than gameplay. Therefore they are a poor substitute for real information.
We know for sure that Dust will be F2P with microtransactions that offer advantages, how those will impact the EvE universe is an important question.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:18:00 -
[468]
Edited by: RAW23 on 02/07/2011 19:22:14
Originally by: Telven Stareal
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Telven Stareal
First, please look up what the word opaque means. And while you do that, also what the word "only" means as well.
I say this because they very clearly say, "The NeX store will "ONLY" sell vanity items."
I really don't know how much more clear they can be..
Bolded and underlined the relevant part for you. You do see that by acknowledging a class of grey area transactions they have not said there will be no non-vanity items. It seems entirely possible that 'convenience' purchases, especially those that relate to services rather than items, such as extra fitting slots or faction standings, might be sold through a mechanism other than the NeX store. If they intended 'game breaking' to cover all non-vanity purchases a) why not say that, and b) where could there possibly be any grey areas?
I can admit you have a valid point. However, only because you are looking for what isn't being said. You do realize we could spin it another way all together, right?
You could say, they plan on stopping the sale of plex and requiring all Aur to be RMT. After all, they didn't address what is going to happen to plex. Or you could say they are going to release a second store that will offer non vanity items, as you are hinting at (or something like that).
The primary issue here is what "you" take a way from what was posted. If you look for what isn't said and ignore what was said. You can get almost anything you want from it. Anyone with intelligence can do this.
I'm not looking to 'spin it', I just want some clarity. One of the CSM reps has said that they have a clear conception of what falls into the game breaking category. I don't, not having been party to the choice of wording, and I would like them to share that conception with me. The problem with leaving things unclear is that a lot of people, myself included, thougt that the statements last year about 'no MT' were generally applicable. But on going back we find that, actually, it is necessary to interpret them very precisely because it is now claimed that they were only addressing MT for SP. Which is fine. But this time round I want a precise understanding that I can rely on so that if things do go 'MT for ingame advantage' in a year or so I won't be faced with claims that it was never ruled out this time and that I had just projected my desires and expectations onto these imprecise statements like I did with the previous round of statements.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:21:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.
They also didn't say the sky is red, or that the Earth is flat, so obviously this must be true as well.
It is simply impossible to come up with a statement that some idiot can't rip an imaginary hole in.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Indeterminacy
Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:23:00 -
[470]
gg all.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:23:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Adakis Fenikkusu Edited by: Adakis Fenikkusu on 02/07/2011 19:01:07
Originally by: Sarina Berghil Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 18:58:14
Originally by: Ranka Mei
@ CCP Navigator: I hope you continue on your vision for Incarna. Like the man said in his leaked email, 10 years from now, no one's gonna give a hoot whether some whiner couldn't run Incarna on his laptop a decade ago. Personally, I think it's visually stunning, and it adds a whole new dimension to EVE.
I would love to know what CCPs vision is for Incarna and other parts of the game for that matter, if there is a vision. It all seems very random and unplanned at times.
Preferably a bit more detailed than "Full sci-fi simulation one step at a time".
How are microtransactions from Dust going to influence Eve? What gameplay perspectives do CCP envision for incarna? How will Incarna gameplay influence flying in space? Those are important questions, but questions that are dodged, maybe because CCP don't know, or maybe they are afraid to say because of possible backlash.
The reason for not telling about the NeX store until it went live seems to have been that they were afraid of backlash from the players, and see where that went.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45mlVuLs_Nw
Enjoy!
@Zen Sarum: What CCP have said, applies only to EVE-Online. They may very well decide on another payment model definitely for DUST 514, and maybe for World of Darkness.
PER CCP-- dust 514 is going to impact 0.0 sov mechanics..... That means the MT based Dust players will impact the Eve world with $$ for advantage... CCP has been side stepping this question since the RPS interview here: RPS Dust interview
"RPS: So, if IÆm an EVE player, how is my game going to change after DUST is released?
Torfi: Well, you have the ability to be more strategic when you are conquering planets and solar systems, in nulsec. Those are the main touchpoints. Highsec carebears need not worry. The same for lowsec. The main touchpoint upon the launch of DUST, will be in nulsec, will be in sovereignty, will be in inflicting damage and destruction and death upon your enemies, destroying their infrastructure and their means to survive, either by means or scorched earth or by stealing their installations on the surfaces of planets. There will be more going on on the surfaces of planets. WeÆve introduced mechanics allowing people to manufacture goods on the planets, but planets will play a more pivotal role in sovereignty mechanics further down the line."
MT for advantage by proxy.... That is why some of us don't buy your current statements.....
This is the next big question. The only salution I see is if an item is true P2W extra stats etc. It also have down sides that allow EVE players to kill them easier. If they are just using $ to buy more clone bodies etc. But does not effect the balance of the game I see no problem with it. The first time an item like the current version of a suppercarrier shows up there might be problems.
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Mister Smithington
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:24:00 -
[472]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Mister Smithington I, for one, am satisfied.
The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.
READ THE THREAD.
Navigator has already clarified that hangar view will NOT be returning.
They are playing you.
No, they aren't playing me. CQ loads just as fast for me as the station enviornment ever did, and the statement says the new hangar will have the same functionality as the old.
Quote: We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar
My complaint with the absent hangar was that it was stupid to decant every time you need to grab ammo, or when you're just waiting for someone else to undock. It doesn't need to be THE SAME old hangar to be an acceptable solution.
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Deja Thoris
Invicta. Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 -
[473]
Pretty decent response. Could have been better, could have been worse. Should have been quicker.
It still irks me that you reaffirm your commitment to great communication and then hide behind NDA's with pricing strategies. While lots of people quit because of the "golden ammo" side, I quit because I object to where CCP is posisitioning itself in the market. Anything that is priced as exclusive is a "****take" and annoys me and always has. The standard response is "just don't buy it lol". That doesn't seem to go far enough for me. When a club charges double the price of others for drinks, I don't just not buy them, I don't pay the cover fee either - the best analagy I can come up with. People can agree or disagree, as is their right, but its how I feel.
CCP's products aren't exclusive. They are just pixels, instead of feeling the need to price them as "microtransactions" you thought it would be cool to charge $70. That fact has not been forgotten. Exclusive handbags are rare or quality materials and craftsmanship go into their construction to reflect the pricetag. Whereas all you are doing is selling pixelated turds for $70 as faux exclusivity.
The ****storm was a pretty good reason to quit and I don't have a strong enough reason to resub at the moment. I'll just part ways with you. I won't wish you luck for the future but I do thank you for the good times we had.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:25:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Mister Smithington
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Mister Smithington I, for one, am satisfied.
The statements were almost as good as I had hoped, and certainly better than I'd feared. I'm overjoyed to hear that the hangar view will be returning.
READ THE THREAD.
Navigator has already clarified that hangar view will NOT be returning.
They are playing you.
No, they aren't playing me. CQ loads just as fast for me as the station enviornment ever did, and the statement says the new hangar will have the same functionality as the old.
Quote: We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar
My complaint with the absent hangar was that it was stupid to decant every time you need to grab ammo, or when you're just waiting for someone else to undock. It doesn't need to be THE SAME old hangar to be an acceptable solution.
Precisely.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Gevlin
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:26:00 -
[475]
Development of WOD and Dust is like skill points.
Put the development into carbon which these products develop off of. Now as these products develop, elements from these games can be applied to Eve.
Don't want to be out done by Cryptic Studios! Who already has 5 in their tier 1 learning skills. here we go again! |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:27:00 -
[476]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Precisely.
*cough* and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
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impli
Singularity. Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:27:00 -
[477]
I think they stated very clear statements and the BIG YELLOW QUESTION is answered.
EVE is save and CCP should regain your trust again. Let they work on the issues.
Danke an CCP's und CSM's Thanks, Blagodarq, Merci.
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HyperZerg
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:28:00 -
[478]
Edited by: HyperZerg on 02/07/2011 19:31:48 One year ago there were NO PLANS for Microtransactions. Now there are MT but NO PLANS for non-Vanity items. So, in one year we get finally get them ?
Btw, Good by sandbox No statement about WHY they made MT besides greed Also, the internal newsletter contained PLANS for non-vanity items. YES it does. Even if you don't realise them, they are PLANS. So, more lies CCP ?
*edit* Why do we have to pay double for items anyway ? Don't we already pay a monthly fee ?
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Shadow XII
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:28:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Hektor Fisk Edited by: Hektor Fisk on 02/07/2011 16:41:30
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
\o/
Why in ****'s name did that take nearly two weeks to come out? Why did you need to talk to CSM to reach this decision?
Surviving and trying to repair a PR apocalypse just to end like this. Well done.
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Catherine DeLane
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:30:00 -
[480]
All this angst from folks! In fact it brings to mind some highschool shakespeare...
[to paraphrase from macbeth I think]
[re: all this continued player rage and anger] ... 'it is a tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury but signifying nothing'
We've had the ragefest and we've had the CCP statement folks; lets give CCP time now to step up and make the devblogs, the communication updates, the game upgrades and bring back the ship spinning etc. Lets all take a collective deep breath and move on.
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Auric Aurumfinger
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:33:00 -
[481]
Thank you. |
Kravasher Prime
Amarr We Could Be Heroes
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:34:00 -
[482]
What about the horrible turret icons? Can we have the option to revert to the pre incarna style icons?
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:34:00 -
[483]
Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 02/07/2011 19:36:10 Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 02/07/2011 19:35:05
Now that is what i call a sop to the masses.
Anar, you know that sense of betrayal you felt, well we still feel that, get honest, you have no company secrets about general direction, you already told us you are following the herd...
HTFU and just come out with it, you are not the CCP that started eve, you became corporate shills, say it, i dare you....
eve (Incarna add on) is now just a test bed and cash cow to to devolop WoD to milk emo¦s with MT.
CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:38:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Jawmare FREE HELICITY FREE LIANG FREE ANGEL HUN
DON'T STOP POASTING
THIS
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Auric Aurumfinger
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:39:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Kravasher Prime What about the horrible turret icons? Can we have the option to revert to the pre incarna style icons?
That, I hope they listen. They're terrible indeed. Aurum is Gold in Latin EVE Online - The Gold is CCP's |
Korbin Dallaz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:39:00 -
[486]
I read nothing any different than what I expected. A bunch of lip service to talk around topics and leave room to continue moving in the direction that they plan. Ship spinning when introduced will still only be temporary. They will force incarna down our throats. They talk as if the loading station environment thing is a technical issue when it is a freedom of choice issue. They say they will not P2W which of course they would say as they have no choice, only time will tell if they stick by it or not.
CCP seems to be still determined to force game content that has more potential revenue streams than to try and release content that could expand their current revenue stream. In my mind this as done very little to change my opinion that they have abandon vets to chase after wow players. I still doubt that P2W has been actually taken out as an option at the highest level at CCP and they said what they needed to to stop the bleeding of subscriptions until such a time as they can afford to let us go.
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Daxel Magmalloy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:40:00 -
[487]
Thank you to both the CSM for their trouble and CCP for listening to our concerns.
Is there a time-frame for how soon we can expect the hangar to be returned?
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Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar Caldari Investment and Security Industries Innovia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:41:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Sha Dar
Originally by: ISquishWorms Well I am happy with the outcome thanks CCP and CSM for finding some common ground and thrashing this all out for us.
I can now get back to playing the game I love most.
Did I read the blog right though that we will still be loosing ship spinning once CQ performance has been improved to a satifactory level?
"and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance."
It seems so yes.
and what is wrong with that??
i honestly still don't see the issue with the current CQ other than the graphical needs and the loading times (which is really not that much of a difference). what is so wrong about having a 3d avatar?? i thought ship spinning was boring. so i can either look at my ship all day if i am docked up doing things. or i can look at my avatar with sweet graphics and a kool screen to watch things happening. honestly never getting out of your ship is an immersion breaker for me, it makes the game dull. so ok i am in a ship ALWAYS?? am i the only person that sees that as ******ed?
the whole sandbox experience of EvE is awesome and i am really starting to see why they call it that now that i am starting to head into null sec. the depth of EvE is AMAZING! but really i falls short for me if it is all work and no play (which most likely what incarna will blossom into a solution to/ hopefully with some functionality for trade/alliances)
just give incarna a shot, ok right now all you can do is sit on a sofa and watch a screen showing some interesting info fly past. but that's really it you have to see what will become of all of this and what can be possible. most of which they will do (minus shooting people in station you can see the problem that can happen with that)
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praznimrak
Gallente Level Up
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:42:00 -
[489]
CCP fire persons responsibly of all this mess. And quit incarna implementation and repair game it self.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:42:00 -
[490]
I've been several hours and haven't read through most of this thread, but here are my impressions:
1. CCP states that they have no plans to introduce game-affecting virtual goods.
This is a slight improvement from the Arnar's blog post that stated they had no plans to introduce "gold ammo," but it's only a slight improvement.
What lends this statement a little weight is the accompanying assurance that the CSM has had an opportunity to look at CCP's roadmap and didn't see anything too suspect, as well as CCP's renewed assurance that the CSM would remain in the loop.
I am still extremely uncomfortable with CCP's statement. I can see that it's already being taken by some players as a promise that there will never be any virtual goods, which of course it is not.
CCP, good communication means not misleading your customers, even unintentionally. I didn't complain about the delay in the publishing of this blog because I understand the value of clarity. Unfortunately, you were not explicit in your attitude towards MT in general. I was hoping for an more comprehensive, candid response outlining what CCP perceives as the pros and cons of offering any kind of MT at this point in time.
Besides saying you have no plans to include non-vanity MT, you give an acknowledgement that "game breaking" advantages for money should not be introduced. Unfortunately, this assurance means very little. Only trolls claim that CCP wants to break its game, so telling us you won't introduce game-breaking items is telling us nothing.
Instead, I'd like to CCP talk a little about what the issues are. Here's a exercise/challenge I'd submit to the powers that be at CCP: Write a 500 word essay on what the phrase "integrity of the sandbox" means to you, in general and in the context of MTs.
2. The door is left open for "gray area" goods and services.
I am assuming this referring to things like convenience services. In some respects, I actually fear this kind of change more than "gold ammo."
EVE has two weaknesses that are almost immediately apparent to anybody that plays the game: First, the UI is horrible, and second, aspects of EVE are extremely tedious. The second point is actually not a complete negative as most of the tedium in the game can be avoided or mitigated through the in-game economy, but I'll put that aside for the moment.
Convenience services provide CCP with an incentive to take cripple aspects of the game (or leave them in a crippled state, as the case may be) so players can pay to get access to a workaround for the things about EVE that suck. In a F2P game that makes a lot of sense, but in a subscription-based game I believe subscription payment should constitute the only "convenience charge" I should have to pay, unless I'm getting some service that actually significantly taxes CCP's resources (like having them create or review in some sort of custom art).
3. The temporary re-implementation of the station view and ship spinning.
This is heartening, but not ideal.
Personally, I don't care about ship spinning. It's an incidental amusement that shouldn't be removed without a good reason, but it's not a vitally important game feature from my perspective.
Performance and usability are concerns to me, but I frankly have a hard time believing that CQ will ever be as undemanding as the hangar view in terms of hardware.
What's also extremely important to me is immersion. I would like to CCP acknowledge that it is, in fact, stupid to force a pod pilot to exit her pod every time she wishes to change ships, restock ammo or drop off a shipment of goods.
Immersion, honestly, is the primary reason I play EVE, and right now, about all Incarna has going for it is that it adds a dimension to the game that could enhance immersion. I really can't abide changes that needlessly sacrifice immersion or usability to push MT sales, or to fulfill some vaguely articulated, seeming arbitrary design philosophy.
That's all for now.
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Blade Gunner
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:43:00 -
[491]
Trust has been lost and will not be easily earned back CCP. You have a lot of work to do and a few well chosen lines will not restore that trust and relationship that makes the Eve community as strong as it was.
Take heed that this is truly your last opportunity with many and such an 'Ooops we didn't mean that' will not solve an issue like this again. If you want that trust and loyalty back you had better earn it, because I for one do not believe in the mishaps, distancing, blame game and the simpley crass manner in which this was dealt with. If you pay them and they speak, in my book they represent CCP and its views. In any other comapany that would be how it stood.
Regards
Blade Gunner To straight talk is free, smack talk can be very expensive. the choice is of course yours . |
Harpalyce Dynameos
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:44:00 -
[492]
I approve for now...
But I will certainly be watching what you do, not what you say.
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vasuul
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:45:00 -
[493]
Finally we have the answers we were looking for I'm still sad ,it took a protest of the masses to get us this final conclusion. A shout out to all the CSM's job well done \o/ Looks like you went in and got us everything we wanted for the most part. Above all a promise from CCP to keep better lines of communication . CCP I salute you also,for finally listening to the community,maybe you are not the closed minded,arrogant,egotistical pricks that we thought you were after all. (though from the 1000.00 pants comment you can see how we drew this conclusion ) Still we have seen you say it now we wait to see if you follow through.If you do it will go a long long way to rebuilding the trust you have lost.
Above all I'm happy to see the sand box clear of horse **** for now
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:46:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Yulinki Atavuli
ok right now all you can do is sit on a sofa and watch a screen showing some interesting info fly past.
I look forward to when they start putting commercials on the screen, I hope they can get some good ones, like the ones they show at superbowl halftime.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:47:00 -
[495]
Edited by: Lederstrumpf on 02/07/2011 19:54:25
Originally by: CCP Navigator I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed.
No, you can not.
The most important thing when it comes to communication is not to lie.
If you do promise stuff which does not turn out to be true for some people, you become a liar from their point of perspective.
The above sentence of yours is a prime example of why CCP fails at communicating with customers:
You make assumptions ("player will be happy for this or that reason") and talk about it as if those assumptions are fact already.
They are not.
You should have recognized by now players are different. With any change there will be some who will dislike the change (*).
But didn't you just assured them (/all readers) to become "very happy"!??
Yes, you did.
Unhappy players will call you and CCP "Liar!" lateron. For good reason, as you did not manage to keep your "promise" of making them happy.
Do you have any interest at all to stop digging your own grave?
Write precisely, FFS:
A) Assumptions aren't facts. B) Mark private/CCP opinions as such: "We think..." C) Don't go public with idiotic promises you can not hold
BTW: You just did announce an announcement. How silly is that? People give a flying **** about what's going to get annouced after summer. Act on problems rather than wasting time trying to buy time!!!
(*) Yes, whatever you'll change there will be unhappy players. But can you really afford to be that arrogant not to inspect whether there's truth in the words of complaining customers? Raising user numbers might fool you into believing everything else you did in the past years was fine. I'm pretty sure CCP does underperform since years. Due to not listening to customer demand. It's your task to pick up customer feedback. Go inspect the multitude of single points of failure you got right there!
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:47:00 -
[496]
At no point was it made clear that CCP will not sell non-vanity items in the cash-shop in the future. Everything they said left that option open. Why does the option need to be left open? Ok so there are no plans, have been no plans, but that doesn't mean anything because new plan tomorrow could change anything.
All that wait, a meet with the CSM and no one can answer definitively that non-vanity items will never be sold?
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:48:00 -
[497]
The big yellow question not answered....
CCP's statement on MT: "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
CSM's statement on MT: "Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage."
CCP says game breaking and the CSM says game affecting.......
Which one is it?????????????
Also, please define this statement made by a CSM member in this thread:
Meissa Anunthiel: There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
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Alexandra Alt
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:48:00 -
[498]
I emailed this questions to Brendan from massively to be asked in next tuesday's conference, but I'll post them here also with the intention of promoting healthy discussion from all parts.
The statements (both from CSM and CCP) were not clear enough regarding the items/services being sold with real money that would change any kind of player stat that is not aspect/vanity only, things like standings, skill points, or any other things that although not directly combat related they could lead to bypass the regular game mechanics for subscriber only players, can we have a clear confirmation that the items in the NeX shop are strictly vanity items, as in items that only change appearance and/or at most ships which do not serve any purpose in fights or regular activities (scanning/salvaging/etc) besides flying in space ?
Is there a possibility that in the future the stance regarding non-vanity items being sold in the NeX store changes and we will see them introduced ? In other words, the statement does not clarify that there is no possbility whatsoever they would be introduced in the future, was that intended ?
Best regards,
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Henrica Gaufridus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:49:00 -
[499]
Well, one of my toons has pretty much always been protesting in Jita for the last week, and I've been regularly posting here. Now that the CSM-CCP meeting is done with, all I can say is "Eh..."
On one hand, I think there has been some VERY careful wording done in regards to non-Vanity items. Use of the word "plan" (as was done in earlier statements) indicates to me that CCP wants to keep that option on the table, or at least don't want a promise of "absolutely no NV items for MT" to come back and bite them in the ass if they decide to implement it in the future. In other words, CCP essentially said that it COULD happen, but it probably won't.
Also, due to NDA, we're left with ****-all in regards to actual substance. I understand that CCP would like to keep some things secret for fear of misinterpretation of intent, fear of other companies with more resources beating them to the punch, etc... but both statements were completely devoid of ANY details.
On the other hand, I'm satisfied that CCP intends on "fixing" Incarna's many flaws (like bringing back ship-spinning, fixing CQ so the load on one's GPU isn't so huge, introducing lower-cost items into NeX, fixing lighting in CQ [they are on the latter, look on Sisi]) so I have relatively mixed feelings here. Before I was dead-set on leaving if I didn't get the answers I wanted. Now I've got SOME good answers, some wishy-washy answers, and little in the way of details.
To renew or not to renew? Maybe just leave until the changes are made? I have no idea.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:49:00 -
[500]
Following the series of events surrounding the launch of Incarna, CCP invited the Council of Stellar Management (CSM) to an extraordinary meeting in Reykjavik to discuss and address a variety of topics ranging from ship spinning to performance to virtual goods strategies. The discussions were very productive and both parties came to an understanding and agreement on key topics. That meeting has now ended and a firm resolution reached by both parties.
(First paragraph says nothing, and is merely throat clearing.)
CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.
(Obviously could have been handled better. Second sentence is just fluff. Might be fundamental priority number 1,453 for all we know.)
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
(That plan could change tonight, so this is meaningless. Also, another channel of MT could be added for non-vanity items, and probably will be.)
There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
(Again, whether this is true or not, planning could begin tonight. 'Game breaking' means an entirely different thing to the producer of the game as it does to a player of the game, and could be taken either way, hence it is meaningless. (Game breaking for CCP would be making a loss on the prodcuct). Mentioning the Nex store again leaves the way open for further sales channels to be added.)
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
(So the investment of money could be equal in outcome to the investment of time. Using the word 'fair' also makes this a judgement call everyone has a different opinion of 'fair'.)
The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.
(NDA, so the players cannot to be told, so not much point then. The business model wouldn't be very interesting anyway, its the development of the game that matters to players.)
CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better.
(Thats big of them.)
To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system.
(No two way communication, the players will be TOLD.)
We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.
(Not putting the focus on developing the 'out of station' part of the game. This is remarkably honest for CCP.)
The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment.
(Perhaps the NEW minimum spec should have been communicated BEFORE incarna (I'm not talking shader3.0 here, but overall machine spec))
CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
(The current minimum spec? Doesn't run incarna at all well, even at low detail)
The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning".
(Emotional connection? It was functionality that was the issue, either the CSM got this wrong or CCP are side stepping the fact that CQ makes docking to do small fast tasks much slower and more awkward.) (continued)
------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
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Raz Xym
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:50:00 -
[501]
Originally by: KrustyKrab I read a very good, very long article from Vanity Fair about Iceland, their 'men', and how they think (and a bit of 'why' they think the way they do).
Vanity Fair - Full Article Text
My post and link isn't to bash CCP or any Icelander, but to hopefully let you gain some insight as to what the mindset is. A lot of us (Americans especially, which I am one) can't be asked to understand another culture, another way of thinking that might be different than our own.
Some might focus on the 'elves' bit, which was honestly a bit amusing, but no different than those in my country that still believe somehow that the earth is only 6,000 years old, or Iranians that believe the holocaust during WW2 never happened.
We have a good idea of the British mindset based on their history. We have a good idea of the German mindset based on their history. Same for America, Russia, etc. It is good to try and understand people of a different culture.
After reading the article, and I'll admit it is just one view (however to me, it is a very good view), I learned things that I honestly never knew before about Iceland.
What does this have to do with Eve and the current situation we find ourselves in? Maybe something, maybe nothing, but reading is good for you, and it might make you interested enough to cross-reference the info in the article with other articles and such (ie never get your info/news from a single source).
Anyway, carry on.
Yeah that was a very interesting article. It is scary how it relates to our current issues with CCP on so many levels.
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Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:51:00 -
[502]
They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date.
('at a future date' i.e. whenever. Nice level of commitment for CCP i.e. no commitment at all. The community wanted the old hangar back, not 'some form' of ship spinning.)
Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
(And the functionality will remain broken and we get to stare at a door.)
We are very happy with the results of the meetings and appreciate the commitment to EVE the CSM members have shown by attending the meeting on short notice.
(I'm not surprised they are happy. Nothing has changed at all, and CCP have hoodwinked the CSM and a large proportion of the player base. There will be a party going on in Iceland tonight.)
No wonder it took so long, the lawyers took out anything they could be held to. ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:54:00 -
[503]
So, let me get this straight... we're not gonna get rid of the outrageous 20$ clothes, but, somehow we may get cheaper crap sometime in the future (Soon TM?) & should be happy with it? Is that?
Well then, I am not going to spend that much money/time in getting what I want. I have a "proper" price in mind, and if CCP won't provide, somebody else will.
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Youli Kepain
Scapegoats
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:55:00 -
[504]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
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Ovella
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:56:00 -
[505]
Originally by: devblog CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.
Originally by: devblog It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
So, you still don't deny you never will sell non-vanity items? Less than a year ago you "had no plans for microtransacions" wahtsoever, if you are to be belived.
Originally by: devblog The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
So, you want removal of PLEXes now? Please...
Besides, it still leaves whole "convinience for price" stuff: "want to expand nubmer of contacts? saved fittings? alliance standinng slots? amount of items per station? personal/corp hangar/wallet divisions? wanna sell items out of containers? be able to rent POS research slots to public?..."
Originally by: devblog CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis.
Originally by: devblog CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.
No amount of communication will help with ideas you plled out of your ass: $99 devblog is a prefect example.
Originally by: devblog The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
Because CSM are the first and only ones who told it to you.... shows how you listen to feedback you requested.
Oh, and I'm pretty sure that it's hard to make a hangar view in the game, especially considering that you already had one functional. As with contact list folders it'll take almost a year to get it back. |
Kayscha
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:56:00 -
[506]
Admitting mistakes in communication: cool. Not admitting any mistakes at all in game design: not cool at all!
From the looks of this post, everything that has gone awry in the past few weeks has just been a misunderstanding: - CCP will continue to charge money for "vanity" items (customization IS gameplay, damn it!), denying regular customers content and means to express themselves in-game. - CCP insists on forcing players to get out of their ships when docked. - CCP still refuses to actually explain where they want to go with this. The only vision we have been shown was the one drawn in Fearless, and that's not one we like. - CCP will not backtrack even an inch and instead go on in the direction a clear majority of players don't wish to go, just a bit more carefully. - CSM comes over as extremely mindful of CCP's feelings in this and not as the ruthlessly inquisitive player representatives we need them to be.
Still looks like I will let my account rest for a while.
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Galactina Evol
The Glistening
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Posted - 2011.07.02 19:59:00 -
[507]
CCP Navigator, you mentioned in another thread you are gathering comments and questions to put to the dev team next week, well here are mine.
I have spent years building my mission standings on this character, i now have some of the highest mission standings of anyone in game.
This may sound like some pathetic carebear statement, but i have always used my standings as a public badge of astonishment/disgust when anyone got around to looking at my standings page.
I took great joy in people "reacting", how they reacted was not important to me. All that i cared about was that i wanted to be remembered. That i achieved something that few others have achieved, the fact that it took me YEARS of grinding to get there made it all the more satisfying when i did.
But when those were ripped out, without a thought to the consequence, it geniunely shook my confidence in CCP and the game at large.
It is not just me that this effects, many RP'ers see their standings as crucial to their immersion to "RP". There is also the issue of the intel tool, if you happen to live in high sec and have a lot of wars it is extremely usual to study the standings of a player to help pin down their agents/stations etc.
The reason for taking them out - was, apparently, because you didn't want people to "stalk" each other. Well unless you are willing to remove trace agents from the game then that argument is a little null and void, don't you think?
And anyway, is "stalking" not a crucial part of what EvE is about anyway? Studying your enemy, through EFFORT, and then striking at him at his weakest point. To be able to do that you need to be able to gather as much information about a person or corp as possible, to help build a picture of who they are and how they go about things. That isnt "stalking", that is just a *part* of what EvE is all about.
How about showing the community that you are really are committed to change by starting to reverse some of the recent decisions which have contributed to eroding the trust in recent weeks and months.
There have been other dubious decisions, but for me, and for others, this is a very important design change that MUST be reversed.
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Korbin Dallaz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:02:00 -
[508]
It seems that one of the points that they are missing is that as long as AUR can purchase items not made by players then they do affect game play. AUR are purchased with PLEX and PLEX are bought and sold in game with isk. Unless or until players make and profit from the sale of the clothing and monocles then the player driven economy has been broken period end of story. You can try to talk around it all that you like but a basic game component and previous sales point has been permanently broken.
In other words when I came to this game I was sold on a very strict player driven economy and my ability to buy game time with in game money at a price determined by the strict player driven economy. That foundation of game play and reason I came to eve are now gone. Truth be told I have never purchased a PLEX but the promise of an honest market for them is what sucked me into this game and I had looked forward to a day when I could pay for the game that way. My hopes, dreams and one of my main reasons for playing eve are gone.
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:03:00 -
[509]
Quote: "upcoming summit with the CSM and CCP to "discuss the events of the past week, to help us define and address the real underlying concerns""
I guess I knew right from the opening sentence this was going to be a crock. Needing to fly in the CSM from all over the world to "define and address the real underlying concerns"?
I get this image of all the CCP execs sitting around their pc's scratching their heads in befuddlement as the read one after another post demanding to know if CCP is going to stand by their previously stated commitment to never sell non-vanity items and asking themselves, "Whatever can they possibly want from us?!?! Quick,call in the CSM to explain this alien customer-speak to us!"
And worst of all, the issue ultimately wasn't addressed. Naturally I can only assume there is a very good reason on CCP's part as to why they will no longer commit to not selling not-vanity items.
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:03:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy Thank you to both the CSM for their trouble and CCP for listening to our concerns.
Is there a time-frame for how soon we can expect the hangar to be returned?
It's not being returned even though that is what we have asked for. And I quote:
"we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized"
So within 18 month(tm) there may be some way to spin your ship again. In the meantime get used to that damn door.
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Kendra Wilkinson
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:03:00 -
[511]
Edited by: Kendra Wilkinson on 02/07/2011 20:06:33 two days of meetings, 24 hours of translation, a topic of 450 pages with 13450 reply and 1,2 m reads ... and you spawn a devblog of poor this quality and trying juste to save face ?
What about rumour of financial trouble? What about new content? What about reintroduce old stuff (except the ship spinning theres' the old cyno? does we must protest a week for you listen us?)
There's again plenty questions (do yours ) you havent answer, i understand you cant do all in same times. I understand that we make all error in our life, that sometimes emotion take the hand on our brain.
but what's the utility of japanese spance pants @ 1000$ if you dont get attibutes to wear this pants?
you make just one little step to your community but I am not convinced by your words
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Ovella
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:04:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Kayscha - CSM comes over as extremely mindful of CCP's feelings in this and not as the ruthlessly inquisitive player representatives we need them to be.
We'll have pink rifters that will shoot DD, but hey! it's gonna be cool... |
octahexx Charante
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:04:00 -
[513]
i dont know..i have to churn it over in my mind for a few days.
paranoid part of me says they are buying time for WOD to get up and running and after that they will dump eve and launch all kinds of weird stuff to milk the cow.
the other part of me that really likes eve see this dev on the video and cant really imagine him as somekind of coldblooded pr master evil genius out to screw everyone... i just basicly see a nervous coding geek dude that is very human. its pretty obvious he is glad mitani talks alot so he dont have to.
i want to believe everything is fine but there is huge holes missing...the hilmar email and the internal newsletter speak different laungage then the rest of this but it was left out.
i dont know.
mixed emotions about it,i hope everyone makes up their own mind about it despite the spamming of sidetakers in the thread.
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Tyree Jinx
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:06:00 -
[514]
Thank you all for responding. +2 accounts to remain. Now I'll get back to makin isk.
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:06:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
You realize they can make a new plan tomorrow that sells sp, isk and ships in the store for cash and the above statement is still true? What we wanted them to say and is apparently too hard for them to say is to commit as they have previously to not selling non-vanity items in the future. They have not committed to that yet.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:06:00 -
[516]
I am now cautiously optimistic.
Glad that CCP have committed to restoring a functional hanger view to deal with poor incarna peformance. Glad that the game-impacting MT issue has been dealt with (as far as it can be without discussing Dust 514)
I'm still concerned about the impact of NeX however and would appreciate some more detail on levels of non-Nex Incarna content that we can expect in the coming releases.
On the whole though I will add my voice to those thanking the CSM for flying to Iceland on short notice to have this discussion and for now I'm more content to watch what CCP will do in the coming iterations of Incarna.
Join the Revolution!
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:08:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
STUPIDEST THING SAID EVER. (Sorry poster but it is)
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Katrishar
Minmatar Rayn Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:08:00 -
[518]
Thank you CCP and CSM for your hard work getting through the issues of the past few weeks. I will be keeping my 2 subs active for the forseable future, and will continue to send out some "buddy invites" to my RL friends.
CCP I think you should take your apology one step further and give Eve online some of the Vampire developers for a few months to "flesh out" (pun intended) some gameplay for the Captain's Quarters.
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:09:00 -
[519]
I wonder if there had not been an outcry we would now have supercaps for sale in the store, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I am glad I am not having to vote with my subscription.
Meanwhile I'm still looking at the door, but living with bugs, 'features' and difficulty is of course a normal part of EVE life.
Thanks to all parties for seeing reason and their hard work.
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Liva Daril
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:09:00 -
[520]
The good: finally we¦re done with this ridiculous MT problem. For now..
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel So it's about the "idea" that your player goes out of its pod? Or is it about the associated performance of loading your character?
Which is it?
Both have been addressed by CCP's statement.
You're trolling, right?
the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar.
*THAT* answers both those concerns.
And now on to the actual problem of this whole Incarna thing.
Why do we have to wait for CCP¦s already stretched thin coding/design resources( bare bone MT store, only single CQ finished, actual station environs ...) coming up with a new "ship-spin of Ozom"-hangar, when we already had a perfectly good working one for the last 8 years?
THAT¦S the million isk question, which sadly it seems the CSM has totally missed addressing.
Quote:
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:09:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
No wonder it took so long, the lawyers took out anything they could be held to.
I am so happy to see I wasn't alone on that thought, a couple others mentioned about the same thing previously too.
You did a great job disseccting what was said, an showing the grand canyon size holes that were left to jump thru when CCP is ready to move forward.
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TetraEtc
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:10:00 -
[522]
I am unhappy about this. I hate station spinning. It lags my computer out. Incarna was good.
Why u no listen to me ccp. NO STATION SPINNING!
MAKE NULL SEC GO AWAY.
NERF DRAKES
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Helig
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:13:00 -
[523]
Thanks CCP and for the efforts of the CSM. Hopefully this just demonstrates you've brought together a very capable and passionate player base, no bad thing.
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Dante Marcellus
Minmatar Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:14:00 -
[524]
This was nice to wake up to. :D Thank you CCP! And if you're reading this, you've fallen into a signature trap. You owe me 1m ISK. |
Gouzu Kho
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:15:00 -
[525]
I'm glad with the outcome, and I am very impressed with the CSM and CCP's willingness to negotiate with them.
At last something was handled well, good job.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:16:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.
They also didn't say the sky is red, or that the Earth is flat, so obviously this must be true as well.
It is simply impossible to come up with a statement that some idiot can't rip an imaginary hole in.
Actually, "never will be plans" covers it just nicely. Back to your bridge, troll.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:17:00 -
[527]
Thanks to the CSM for flying halfway across the world and thanks to CCP for listening - now CCP, don't be a stranger mkay?
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:17:00 -
[528]
May i ask, what would be the fair advantages, that can be purchased via Aurum?
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:17:00 -
[529]
Originally by: Korbin Dallaz It seems that one of the points that they are missing is that as long as AUR can purchase items not made by players then they do affect game play. AUR are purchased with PLEX and PLEX are bought and sold in game with isk. Unless or until players make and profit from the sale of the clothing and monocles then the player driven economy has been broken period end of story. You can try to talk around it all that you like but a basic game component and previous sales point has been permanently broken.
In other words when I came to this game I was sold on a very strict player driven economy and my ability to buy game time with in game money at a price determined by the strict player driven economy. That foundation of game play and reason I came to eve are now gone. Truth be told I have never purchased a PLEX but the promise of an honest market for them is what sucked me into this game and I had looked forward to a day when I could pay for the game that way. My hopes, dreams and one of my main reasons for playing eve are gone.
Careful, lots of people never connected those dots, you may be ostracized for being intellegent.
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SilentDisruptor
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:18:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Dr Valeri ey guys, no game-breaking MT.
Why are you still *MAD*?
Because CCP has been intentionally misleading us about their planned direction for the game. That is the real problem here. They continue to mislead us, apologetically .
Also, "game breaking" leaves a hell of a lot of room.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:19:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien The words "never will be plans for non-vanity items" seem to be missing. Fix this.
/signed.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:21:00 -
[532]
Nothing new, same old rubbish... "had no plans and have no plans" doens't means you won't have a change of heart tommorow and decide to sell everything for AUR instead of isk... you put it in wallet, afterall - makes it only right if that's the currency that used for market orders, screw isk anyone can get it by killing rats ingame.
Besides, right way to adress it would be like this. If releaseing such statements requires you to wait 1.5 weeks and call for CSM to help I'm shocked that you actually manage to keep servers running. |
Slaghead
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:22:00 -
[533]
After all of the waiting, I am completely underwhelmed at the result. I'm really not understanding all of the people who are 'happy' with this result. Too many weasel words in these statements to take anything seriously. I really wanted to re-activate my alt but instead I'm on the fence. I want to believe but the lack of truthiness by CCP and the lack of definitiveness on the biggest issues just have me deflated at this point.
Sucks to be losing training time but I don't want to invest any more time, money and effort into characters that I'll just have to abandon when CCP decides to have plans to introduce non-vanity items for AUR.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:23:00 -
[534]
I do not like poop in my sandbox.
Please keep it that way.
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Dr Nefarius
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:25:00 -
[535]
In the CSM comments they state CCP has plans on perhaps implementing ship skins which will be bought with AUR. While it is not gamebreaking it will give ingame-advantages, at least when it comes to baiting. Who could resist a Hello Kitty Drake? Small advantage, which I could accept. Just hope that is where they draw the final line.
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Myrdraeus Keaunt
Minmatar Chaos Delivery Systems
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:25:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Glad that CCP have committed to restoring a functional hanger view to deal with poor incarna peformance.
"Some time in the future."
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zcar300
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:28:00 -
[537]
"The current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar"
All this talk about minimum specs and multiple clients. What about midrange specs and single clients? My computer is above the minimum specs and it runs like **** in CQ with one client. In my opinion Incarna will not be fixed until the game runs the same inside and out of the CQs.
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
They have already broken this with PLEX. Without the ability to sell PLEX many players would not be able to afford the high price of faction, officer, and deadspace modules. Not to mention higher quality ships.
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Korbin Dallaz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:28:00 -
[538]
Originally by: Gloria Stitz
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Currently a person can buy as many PLEXs as they want with RL money and buy super cap fleets to stomp their enemies out. The reason that does not break this rule is because players are profiting from the purchase of the super caps. i.e. you could be funding the very enemy that you bought the super caps to stomp out.
The current AUR model allows players to buy items from the noble store that are made by the server and sell them on the market for isk. Further those AUR are purchased with PLEX so doubling the effect that the MT has on the player driven market.
This post was to give an actual example of how my previous theoretical post plays out in game and how PLEX do no violate the above rule.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:30:00 -
[539]
Originally by: SilentDisruptor Also, "game breaking" leaves a hell of a lot of room.
That remindes me of stuff I once read in a gamechat... was soemthing along the lines of "once you could put containers inside each other, creating virtually unlimited cargo space... and when you put first one into last one - server crached" - that is what I see as "gamebreaking".
Some "blob generator": "protect your sovereignity by installing this structure in your system - anyone without +10 standings guaranteed to have blacksreen when attempting to jump in, only 10000000 AUR!" |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:30:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Don Aubaris
Edit : And I'm in aggreement with some other posts. Some kind of 'amnesty' should be given to players that got banned for protesting too fiery.
You mean for threatening real live employees over a video game?
Bans should be permanent. Zero tolerance is the only deterrent for this behavior.
Mr Epeen
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hudders
Caldari Galactica Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:30:00 -
[541]
To all you emo rage quiters out there, can I have your stuffs and your ISKies as well please?
Thanks muchly [img]http://www.battleclinic.com/kill_sigs/signature_display |
Gloria Stitz
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:30:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Grog Barrel May i ask, what would be the fair advantages, that can be purchased via Aurum?
It only needs to be an equal advantage. ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------ |
Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering Needless Friends
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:32:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Originally by: The Mittani, Chairman of CSM 6 Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
I have great concern with the introducing of ships thru NeX. Ready to fly ships offering will cut out the supply chain of many protential players. To build a ship currently you need miners to get the supplies, researchers to produce a BP, and builders to build the ship. I have issues with any ship being offered from NeX, including in a BP becuase it will leave out the researcher.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Gallente Metafarmers MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:32:00 -
[544]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Don Aubaris
Edit : And I'm in aggreement with some other posts. Some kind of 'amnesty' should be given to players that got banned for protesting too fiery.
You mean for threatening real live employees over a video game?
Bans should be permanent. Zero tolerance is the only deterrent for this behavior.
Mr Epeen
I doubt that anyone intended for their statements to be real life threats and ccp must know this as well.
They were just looking for an excuse to ban their most vocal critics.
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MezriDax
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:32:00 -
[545]
At least they talked about ONE relevant topic.... not that I have any reason to stay any more.
Arnar, if you were ****ed off on Friday, take that and multiply it by ever update you've screwed over the players of this game and maybe you'll start to understand WHY we are trying to get the arrogant people at CCP to build something that the paying players want.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:34:00 -
[546]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
Holy wiggle room, Batman.
"We had a change of plans."
"This enhancement isn't game-breaking."
"We're launching a new store, the NyX store."
Just answer the question, CCP. You know which question I mean.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Giclas
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:34:00 -
[547]
As for now my money is back on CCP. +2 accounts and I am glad that Minmatar BS V was not a waste of time and money. I¦m pleased with the statements so far, especially with the one mentioning that money efforts are not to overcome time efforts ( for now ?). So, whatever you¦re planning in Island, don¦t bypass the sandbox! However, I consider CCP on parole for now. Mutual trust was reprocessed in this ordeal and it will take a lot more time to rebuild than to trash it at the insane speed we all became witness in the last couple of days.
I know that everything dies ( R.I.P Peter Steele ), but now I know that EvE will die a little later.
Thus, thanks to CCP and the CSM ( which I never voted, but will have an eye on when the next votes start )
And... You can add as much vanity-crap as you like - CCP Sunset needs a new pair of shoes :)
Giclas
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Livinia Koi
Wrecking Shots Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:35:00 -
[548]
Well, I'm satisfied for now, but I still don't trust you not to f*** up, CCP. I sincerely hope that the inevitable failure of Dust and WoD don't put you out of business and you start investing resources back into your only profitable product. Because frankly, this isn't good enough. I hope those promised dev blogs about future developments are pretty damn good, because I'm still waiting for useful changes. This year, I"ve only seen a huge nerf to 0.0, where I live, making it impossible for me to recoup my losses, and the addition of a completely useless Captains Quarters that I have to turn off in order to make my game run at a reasonable rate. Thanks a lot. I hope you get better quick.
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Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:35:00 -
[549]
My biggest question now is: When do we get our "I forum-trolled and rioted against non-vanity MT and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" T-shirt
Also, how much will it cost? ___________________________________________ Incarna made me into a forum whiner :'( |
I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:37:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Dr Nefarius In the CSM comments they state CCP has plans on perhaps implementing ship skins which will be bought with AUR. While it is not gamebreaking it will give ingame-advantages, at least when it comes to baiting.
If they only sell existing NPC skinns - not so much...
Originally by: Dr Nefarius Who could resist a Hello Kitty Drake?
Please, they'll have to commit a full expansion cycle to make that one
Tho I wouldn't mind having somehting like that in hangar, as silly and non-eve (hey, we have cpasule on a balcony!) as it might be.
What really interests me is this tiny bit:
Originally by: devblog We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services.
We've yet to see what "services" CCP have planned to put in that store for AUR... I can only say that I dont really like surprises when it comes to CCP. |
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Garrance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:38:00 -
[551]
So on one of the very biggest issues CCP says nothing and the best the CSM could come up with is:
"The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
The thing responsible for 1/2 the sheet-storm and silence from CCP and 'our sympathies' from the CSM????? OUR SYMPATHIES??? Appalling indeed.
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:41:00 -
[552]
Awesome. Just missing the group hug photo now
And good call identifying the issue of grey areas. I for one will start losing faith again fast if it looks like CCP keeps trying to push into that area, especially if the all too familiar CSM blogs are saying "We weren't consulted" at the same time _
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:43:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
Travel safely my friend, and thank you for sticking to your guns on our behalf.
o/ Bill
AKA. K.S.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:44:00 -
[554]
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis."
Wrong, CCP. The investment of gobs of money in EVE should not replace what has always taken an investment of time. (Skill points, standing, etc.) Money can buy ISK with which you buy things from the market. Fine. Money now can buy vanity items. Not ideal, but barely tolerable to most players, fine. That's it. No mas.
Also, where was the commitment to not breaking game functionality (fitting slots, for instance) so you could sell it back to us? I must have missed it. Surely you would have addressed that after the outrage caused by soundwave's enthusiasm about that idea in Fearless?
Want to buy a monocle? |
Garricky
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:45:00 -
[555]
Originally by: hudders To all you emo rage quiters out there, can I have your stuffs and your ISKies as well please?
Thanks muchly
Wow you are a brilliant person! You came up with a snappy NEW catch phrase (can I have your stuffs) that will be used for years by every idiot who can't think of anything witty or constructive to say!!!!.... oh sorry....
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:46:00 -
[556]
CCP cannot, and should not, promise something like "no gold ammo ever." Because no one knows what might happen next year, or the year after that. Maybe something changes that makes it a really good idea.
With that said, I do have a couple of questions for CCP. I've touched on them before but they're buried in 450 pages of player feedback.
First. When did you decide to do the Nex? About a year before Incarna, CCP Shadow said you guys had no plans regarding microtransactions whatsoever. Even if you changed your minds the very next day, a year to plan, design, code and implement something like it is awfully fast by your standards. A ship rebalance seems to take you longer than that. Was Shadow misinformed?
Second. You've made your position quite clear on gold ammo. The wording leaves a little wiggle room but ok. You say that you use Fearless to spitball ideas and stuff like that. Could you guys elucidate a little bit about MT, the vanity and gold ammo type both? What do you see as the upside and downside of it? The players seem to generally don't want gold ammo, but from your point of view could you see it benefiting the game as a whole? What would you say is the downsides? From where did you get the metrics that people wanted a clothes shop? Or is this solely something to pull in new customers and grow the Eve universe, if so are you certain those customers in potentia are really out there? I think you showing us that you've thought about this from more than an economic perspective would do wonders in easing people's minds.
Third. The plan right now for Eve is vanity MT only. Dust will use MT throughout, if I understand it correctly. Dust will impact Eve sovereignty warfare. Will you make sure that the money someone invests in Dust will not give an "unfair advantage" in Eve?
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:47:00 -
[557]
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Don Aubaris
Edit : And I'm in aggreement with some other posts. Some kind of 'amnesty' should be given to players that got banned for protesting too fiery.
You mean for threatening real live employees over a video game?
Bans should be permanent. Zero tolerance is the only deterrent for this behavior.
Mr Epeen
I doubt that anyone intended for their statements to be real life threats and ccp must know this as well.
They were just looking for an excuse to ban their most vocal critics.
The banning of accounts is good for revenue as well, because most people who get banned don't go away, they buy a new account an keep playing. So, with this in mind, why unban an account?
Did you really think that all the botters went away? No, they bought new accounts an refined their bots more.
CCP is in need of more revenue.
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The Chemist
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:47:00 -
[558]
Edited by: The Chemist on 02/07/2011 20:47:47 This whole hard cash for better stuff in eve thing has always had me confused. Surely if you have a pile of cash and not much time, you can open an account, buy 1000 plex/GTC?whatever they are these days, for real money, then sell them in game for ISK. Then you just buy a 5/6 year old character for isk with all the ships 'n' do-hickys you want and Bob's you're mothers brother.
I may be wrong and this isn't possible, I haven't played much (unless you class looking at Deltole station interior as playing) for the last couple of years. If God made us to be just like him, then God is dumb and maybe a little ugly on the side...[F.Z] |
Feisty Cadavar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:47:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Geksz Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:06:10 Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:01:09 Will there be an explanation on WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A PERMANENT HANGAR BAY VEIW (like the old one without Incarna)? And why isn't Incarna optional like CCP promised earlier? (I'm sorry, but the option to have a still picture instead if the hangar is really disappointing, and in early test builds it wasn't even there!!!)
The blog clearly states that CCP is working on implementing a new spinning ship hangar view. OK, good to know, but what was wrong with the old one?
+10000 - I think everyone was under the impression that CQ would be optional. You dock up in a spinning ship view. You have a button or something labeled "leave pod" - whatever and it loads CQ / and or the "Walking in stations" environment.
I think this 'new spinning ship interface' combined with leaving the CQ in the settings menu is stupid. It doesn't make sense. Put the old thing in place and if someone wants to leave their pod and relax on their couch - then let em via a button or something. If someone wants to dock up, change ships, and undock - let em do that too.
I think CCP is missing some of the picture. Sure CQ takes up more CPU / GPU resources but it also impacts game play. I think when they're talking about "releasing CQ when Incarna performance meets pre-Incarna performance" that they're addressing the technical specifications but not the user play style. I want to be able to dock up, and swap ships and be back out. I don't want to have to dock up, load up into a body, cycle through my ships, then hit 'board ship' then undock - thats just stupid. Even in game story mode that is stupid - lets just keep jumping in and out of our pod? Why not stay in a pod if we're already in one? Seems would cause some nasty neural problems over time :D
If this was a product I designed - I'd probably have something like you dock up, and you see from the inside of the ship out to the hangar deck with a camera flying around your ship displaying your current ship ( that you can spin ). I'd have the ability to change ships. I'd have an animation that makes it appear as if you've materialized into your new ship. Right on my main screen I'd have a "leave pod" button or have something that denoted the ability to leave my pod - enter the space station and have something to drink with my fellow capsuleers.
I know it may not be everyone's opinion but in my opinion the proper thing to do is to look at the design and try to incorporate the technical specs ( how does the thing perform on various pieces of hardware ) user play, and back-story into CQ and eventually WIS.
Just my .02 FC
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Bogran
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:47:00 -
[560]
white wash bog is PR junk and nothing else.
add a button to the old station view > enter CQ. it really is that simple
and actually state no none vanity items ever.
ccp you constantly amaze me how you **** about with everything but the simplest option and straight up facts.
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SteamViper
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:48:00 -
[561]
Good Communication and Trust between CCP and the Eve community HAS ALWAYS been a FUNDAMENTAL PRIORITY for CCP so where did you guys forget all of that? Treat the player base like you would do with the wife or kids. Oh and by the way even though there is a world recession and times are hard you top Execs should remember that the selling of the "BIG ISSUE" magazine still has positions open throughtout the UK. Can still see Hilmar outside my WH Smiths on the high street.
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Tob'ruk
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:49:00 -
[562]
Edited by: Tob''ruk on 02/07/2011 20:54:16 Thanks to the CSM and CCP for addressing these issues in this face to face manner, may it lead to even better co-operation between the players and the company in the future.
I would also urge those who unsubbed to reconsider their decision in light of these statements. We the players as the community are what makes the game what it is and losing players makes EvE less great. It is also ultimately a matter of survival for the game we enjoy so much and clear that by unsubbing it is more likely than not that the game will fail.
I would also urge CCP to nurture the playerbase and game more than previously done these past couple of years and if it means having to mothball both or one of the other of the new games in development ..... do that rather than let EvE die Also I would urge CEO Hilmar to address the playerbase directly on the leaked email, was it real/fake and if real he should issue an apology.
Cheers!
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Caiyuga Onishi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:50:00 -
[563]
Thank you CSM, thank you CCP
subscription: +1
It would have been easier to just answer that question a week ago.. but ok. You stated that you will put more effort into communication. Now to log back in and make up for a week of not playing EVE.
This shows EVE is indeed very different from ANY other game out there - CCP respects the playerbase. I've never experienced anything like that in any other game. Rage in Jita/on the forums leads to emergency summit of the CSM (wich is, again very unique around MMOs)
A satisfied customer.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:51:00 -
[564]
"The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings."
In other words, Tough ****. If our crappy software overheats your computer, even though you can play every other game out there without problems, we won't fix our software, we'll tell you to get a more expensive computer. If you bought and paid for multiple accounts for years because we designed multiple in-game advantages to doing so and had multiple marketing campaigns to encourage doing so, that was your bad.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Strazdas Unstoppable
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:52:00 -
[565]
This is a step in the right direction. however you still do no promise no non-vanity items in nex in fiture. you have no current plans. plans may appear tomorrow. infact, you do have plans, the newsletter was leaked after all. also it appears that CSM didnt took much notice into that newsletter. while it may not express current state of ccp policy, the whole thing of lead designer suggesting more fitting slots for aurum is proof enough that you should not be trusted. you dont go suggesting things that you never plan to do. Also the incarna performance thing still looks like very little noticed. you made the minimal requirements fit the changes. this would be fine, if it werent that the minimum requirements are the same as for games that manage to have much better graphics whole populating world with not 1, but 50 people. optimization. learn how to do it. I know that most game designers nowadays ignore (or are uncapable?) to do it. but that does not mean you should be slacking too.
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:55:00 -
[566]
Originally by: CCP Navigator A blog has been published which includes a joint overview video with CCP Zulu, Senior Producer of EVE Online, and The Mittani, CSM Chairman; a German transcript and a Russian transcript of the video will be added once translation has been completed. Individual statements by the CCP and the CSM, which are also available in German and Russian have been published. Please note that at the time of this post the CSM delegates departed Iceland today and are en route to their respective homes, therefore they may not be available for immediate comment.
To read the blog in full, please click on this link.
On this day, and with that which I have seen, I will silence my voice and quell the wrath of the spurned lest it take hold over my soul and march onward with a mind of it's own. Should my trust be breached?, I vow upon my very essence to loose the hound and place no barriers against its fury and thirst for retribution...
o/ Bill AKA K.S.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:56:00 -
[567]
"The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
"in some form" = More weasel room. Probably will require walking from one end of the station to the other to enter the 'ship spinner' or some horse**** like that.
Make Incarna optional.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:58:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Pierced Brosmen My biggest question now is: When do we get our "I forum-trolled and rioted against non-vanity MT and all I got was this lousy T-shirt" T-shirt
Also, how much will it cost?
THIS^^^
o/ K.S.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:58:00 -
[569]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson "The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
"in some form" = More weasel room. Probably will require walking from one end of the station to the other to enter the 'ship spinner' or some horse**** like that.
Make Incarna optional.
I'd prefer if CCP just made you disappear.
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Henrica Gaufridus
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:58:00 -
[570]
As big of an ass as Mittens is, I know he's not about to take **** from anyone. Actually, I think that's why he doesn't take **** from anyone, because he IS an ass. He's also a relatively straight-shooter, he'll tell you if he thinks you're full of ****. Thus, when he ended his blog with the following statement, I believe him:
I want to sleep for a week and if I have to come back to Reyk before December's summit I'm going to be ****ing furious. But, ~imo~ ****'s sorted with CCP.
So I guess I'll stick around until CCP does something else stupid.
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Moria Kethar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 20:58:00 -
[571]
Greetings CCP
Issues that remain unaddressed: The email evidence that the CEO does not understand the game/product or community at a basic level. When the development team will put work into the parts of the game that matter - Spaceships! Gameplay, ship balance, hybrids, 0.0, ect - others have listed issues far more eloquently then I.
All in all, the avoidance for the last week of answering the big yellow question (what you are now claiming was just a gross misunderstanding) makes anything you and your representatives have to say extremely difficult to believe. Trust, once violated is very hard to regain - especially when your statement:
1) Still leaves "wiggle room". 2) We already know that your new Dust game will have full on MT. 3) Dust is going to be a influential part of Eve.
The very real impression I -still- have is that EVE is viewed as a cash cow to be milked by CCP for as long as possible until Dust or WoD is online. That there is still no real direction for improving Eve-the-spaceship game itself or evolving Eve further within the context of this wonderful universe that exists. It is simultaneously the forced test bed (evident from the forced CQ) for the technology that will go into these new games and will also provide the funds for those games.
All this, combined with ongoing ---gameplay--- issues that CCP has continually failed to address. The painfully serious balance issues between faction ships, weapons (can anyone say hybrids?) combined with myriad other issues that have been ongoing for ages that no amount of prettying the stations will resolve. Gameplay -NEEDS- to come first in any game if it is to be a long term success. Sparkle, shiny and key jingles can only keep people entertained and subscribed for so long compared to committing to provide solid gamplay.
What feeling do new Gallente players have when they get told for the first time that their faction ships are worthless, and to start training toward flying a Drake or just /unsub? In an ideal corp, this shouldn't happen, and yet I've seen it happen frequently.
Reinforcing this is staggering self-delusion evident within the company re: the state of the game from the now infamous Hilmar email. There is nothing in these blogs or statements that shows those making the decisions have any interest in resolving the issues that strike the heart of the game because they still see the game as being 'premium' already.
(tl:dr) - I still won't be the golden goose with game play issues that you kill to pay for other games. I have hopes for the future, but until I see a direction change toward addressing Gameplay issues, my sub remains -1
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Edward Monton
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:01:00 -
[572]
Originally by: Arja Marketta Good to have a confirmation that non-vanity items will never appear in the store. Good also about ship-spinning, for those that like it.
What I don't see is anyone from CCP addressing Hilmar's email, or the tone therein. The CSM statement acknowledges player upset over it
Quote: The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
but nothing from CCP on that topic.
I'm also intrigued by the absence of a CCP statement on the Hilmar email. The Hilmar email is so obviously related to the EASY "Pay to win" slideshow, in which Ben explicitly espouses lying to the player base with injecting pay-to-win microtransactions into a game. I'd really like to see that email addressed by CCP before I'm willing to resub my accounts.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:02:00 -
[573]
As bad as CCP's statement was, CSM's was worse.
"The Fearless "Greed is Good?" Leak: We accept CCP's position that Fearless is a deliberately controversial internal publication and does not represent the policy of CCP Management or of CCP Zulu, the Senior Producer of EVE Online, nor the direction of game design."
Bully for you, we don't. Nor do we see CCP addressing that issue. Could it be because their 'position' is bull****?
For those not familiar with the Greed is Good newsletter, this thread thoroughly discredits CCP's position (the one this CSM accepts.)
Want to buy a monocle? |
Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:02:00 -
[574]
there still a lot of grey areas, while i'll pay for my expired acc, you need to rebuild trust from the ground ccp
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CEOcat
Gallente CAT Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:03:00 -
[575]
Edited by: CEOcat on 02/07/2011 21:03:59 "CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
NO, NO and NO.
I don't want a spinning ship and I don't want a door.
What I want is the lowest resource hogging useful station environment possible!
That would be the static ship background that you used to have before when having load station enviroment unchecked.
Just bring the old version of not loading the station environment back and give us a 2d ship environment instead of a door.
The spinning ship also defeats the purpose of not loading Incarna since it is not resource minimized. It is way better then having to load Incarna but the point is not have a spinning ship. The point is to have a station environment that is as light on the computer as possible while still being moderately useful like showing a static picture of the ship you are in that you can open or your cargo by double clicking...
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Rocom
Brotherhood of Heart and Steel Iron Heart Brotherhood
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:04:00 -
[576]
\o/
+9001 Loyalty Points for CCP
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Kytheria
Minmatar Happy Hooligans
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:05:00 -
[577]
I am willing to take CCP and the CSM's statements at face value at this point.
That said, I am watching CCP's actions very carefully. Their actions of the last few weeks have blown 5 years of trust.
Understand CCP that the player unrest you've experienced is not only about game-changing (not "game-breaking") MT. You have a long way yet to go. As a player who was looking forward to playing WoD as well, the Fearless leak really turned me off to the game. I don't appreciate the idea of being milked for money in any game that I play. Tread carefully.
+2 accounts resubbed - more are on hold while I watch how this pans out.
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Don Aubaris
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:06:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Originally by: Don Aubaris
Edit : And I'm in aggreement with some other posts. Some kind of 'amnesty' should be given to players that got banned for protesting too fiery.
You mean for threatening real live employees over a video game?
Bans should be permanent. Zero tolerance is the only deterrent for this behavior.
Mr Epeen
Things get said in the heat of the moment. And what one person takes for a deadly insult is another ones normal language use. I think CCP is at the moment the last one who should insist on taking text literally. CCP should take atleast half of the blame because of their bad communications. I doesn't have to be without conditions. An apology as prerequest would be normal. Prsonally I would worry more about the guy that doesn't yell in forums but just books a plane ticket.
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Dennie Fleetfoot
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:07:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Dennie Fleetfoot on 02/07/2011 21:10:10 This has gone a long way to eliviate my concerns.
CCP should learn a valuable lesson from this whole sorry affair which is look before you leap. And pay attention to your exsisting customer base before p'ing them off in the hunt for new ones.
My alt will remain unsubbed for the next couple of weeks while I wait to read the new stream of dev blogs explaining the thinking behind some of the decisions that were made but the chances of him being reactivated are high.
This, being my main will remain subbed and will continue to be so as long as CCP hold fast to their assurences. I will not call them promises, as that is just setting my up for a possible bout of quit rage sometime in the future.
Thanks once again to the CSM for the hard work they do, and thanks to CCP for realising that this was the only way to deal with the situation.
You guys had no idea just how close I was to just quiting the whole game
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Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:07:00 -
[580]
Any news on the rough timeline of getting rid of the low res brown door? Understandably it will not happen overnight but will it be a typical case of CCPs soonÖ?
"Creation is so precious and greed so destructive." |
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Bluestream3
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:07:00 -
[581]
As a previous poster said,
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss So you had to fly people all the way to Iceland before you could answer "Purely vanity items only".
I find this a bit strange too. Actually I find the need for the CSM a bit strange - they sit there and talk about their one-way communication that is the dev-blog and the forums. That makes me wonder, there was a lot of very thought out forum posts that clearly discussed all of the issues (probably) that the CSM discussed with CCP these two days, any Eve-player could've told CCP what the players wanted to have answered or changed, and many did. Yet they call the forums a one-way communication and they need the CSM to translate for them.
Now don't get me wrong I've got nothing against the people in CSM at all, as far as I know they reflect the opinions of the players, and they probably do it better than most would, but I still think it's odd how CCP couldn't come up with this a lot earlier by themselves.
Anyway, I think most of us got what we wanted, they're working on the old hangar, there will be no gold ammo, the fearless leak seems to be nothing to worry about. At least not when it comes to Eve, I couldn't care less about Dust or WoD. I just hope they can listen to the players themselves when it's needed, even if it's good to involve the CSM in some matters, this, in my opinion should not have been one where it was needed because the views of the players was so clear long before this meeting. But perhaps I'm just naive to think so.
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Bizzi Zeitschrift
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:08:00 -
[582]
Originally by: Henrica Gaufridus As big of an ass as Mittens is, I know he's not about to take **** from anyone. Actually, I think that's why he doesn't take **** from anyone, because he IS an ass. He's also a relatively straight-shooter, he'll tell you if he thinks you're full of ****. Thus, when he ended his blog with the following statement, I believe him:
I want to sleep for a week and if I have to come back to Reyk before December's summit I'm going to be ****ing furious. But, ~imo~ ****'s sorted with CCP.
So I guess I'll stick around until CCP does something else stupid.
Maybe some of you should stick your original plans and just do us a favor and leave. If you're looking for something to get mad at, you'll find it for sure.
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:09:00 -
[583]
Nice news in this blog.
Strength and Honour |
Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:09:00 -
[584]
One more flight before I get home... whew.
I want to clarify a few things about my quick explanation of ship spinning.
The discussion went like this:
CSM: CSM5 was promised that Incarna would load as fast and have similar functionality as the old Hangar. But this isn't so. And also, it melts video cards. What are you going to do?
Torfi: (To his credit, he offered this without prompting) Until we can get the performance to where it needs to be, we are going to implement something similar to the old hangar mode; that will be less costly to load (and thus faster) and will not contribute to global warming as much.
CSM: With ship-spinning?
Torfi: (Thinking fast!) Of course, ship-spinning!
CSM: (Removes Torfi's name from the "List of devs to be fed to the whales")
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong. But there is time to either convince them or (more likely) blackmail them. But no matter what, there will be ship-spinning -- it will be added to Incarna and you will be able to spin from the balcony.
And who knows, CCP may come up with something that seamlessly connects to Incarna that is more immersive than the current hangar, in which case I don't think there's a real problem.
As for why they can't just restore the old hangar, Torfi will have to chime in with the exact details, but the tl/dr is that it needs to be redone using their new graphics system (the one used by Incarna).
With respect to the issue of why CCP can't just say "NEVER" to gold ammo/P2W/whatever-you-want-to-call-it-this-week, I just posted a blog that gives my perspective on this.
Potter Stuart and the Purchase of Insurance
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:10:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow At some point in time, Incarna will also have
Can you guarantee what you're promising here?
Otherwise you're just doing a guess & advertise kind of job here, which finally can have the "Liar!" sticker end up on your forehead, too!
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dicen3
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:11:00 -
[586]
I have no "plans" to continue to pay for this game.
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Stoned Dragonias
Amarr Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:12:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
This needs to be permanent, not temporary.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:12:00 -
[588]
Well, with this statement I could resub again in good conscience, however I am a bit burned out, and want to see how it goes.
So while I have good hope, I am not resubbing just yet.
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE / EVE Pre-Incarna |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:14:00 -
[589]
"We believe that the situation that has unfolded in the past week has been a perfect storm of CCP communication failures, poor planning and sheer bad luck."
Seriously, were you guys drunk when you wrote this?
There was no communication failure. There was a communication success. We got to know what CCP really thinks for a change. We got reliable accurate information in a timely manner for a change. This joint statement is a communication failure.
Poor planning? Well yes, but that's nothing new. CCP's plans for EVE (Internet Spaceships) suck. They sucked before. They will no doubt continue sucking. I don't think their plans have changed one iota because of this.
Bad luck? I'm not sure how you equate dishonesty and contempt with bad luck. It's unlucky that the folks at CCP are morally bankrupt?
Want to buy a monocle? |
Nyssa Litari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:15:00 -
[590]
I think this has reasonably addressed our concerns. Thank you CCP and thank you CSM.
(I'm sure I don't speak for all those who aren't lawyers IRL but play one here on the forums.)
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Karthwritte
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:16:00 -
[591]
Edited by: Karthwritte on 02/07/2011 21:16:23 Incarna should have been developed as a full app. That way Dust people could also log in into Incarna and the whole New Eden could have being reunited in a single app and have the MT fest would love CCP. -------------------------------------------------
Bio: [b]Karthwritte was Casual EVE Player. Now its a phoney who talks about the plot of the game industry to take our whole money in |
Karos Vandarl
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:16:00 -
[592]
War against CCP is now officially over. now lets get back to shooting each other ..k ?
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:17:00 -
[593]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 02/07/2011 21:23:52
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Your internal publications suggest otherwise. The CSM may be happy to overlook that, but I'm not.
Quote: CCP acknowledges that communication surrounding the launch of the virtual goods store should have been better.
I think the most disappointing aspect of this is that it's happened before. CCP as a company seems utterly incapable of learning from its past mistakes in this area, which is just infuriating.
By refusing to say there never will be non-vanity MT in the future, after three blogs on the subject, I can't help but assume that it *will* be introduced at some point in the future. And *when* that happens, I *will* be gone.
In the meantime, not only do I suggest that IA get to the bottom of finding out who was responsible for leaking the PDF and the e-mail to begin with, but I also strongly suggest that you improve your workplace environment and culture beyond the current state in which someone in the company was so disgruntled that they saw fit to leak anything in the first place.
/Ben
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Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:17:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I am in transit back home (now in Boston Airport) but will be happy to answer questions as time permits. I hope the devblog clears up a lot of things for everyone.
... It clears up enough for me. I appreciate the CSM for making the trip and I hope that CCP continues to do what it has done for a very long time... listen to the players and work with them. Both CCP and the players have helped make Eve what it is and ignoring either isn't productive to anyone. |
I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:17:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Torfi: (To his credit, he offered this without prompting) Until we can get the performance to where it needs to be, we are going to implement something similar to the old hangar mode; that will be less costly to load (and thus faster) and will not contribute to global warming as much....Torfi: (Thinking fast!) Of course, ship-spinning!
Considering that they haven't planned it (so :18 months:) they more liekly at some point say "it runhs good enough already, no need for hangar".
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong. But there is time to either convince them or (more likely) blackmail them.
Wish I had your confidence, seeing how CCP keeping CSM "in the know" of all things they release...
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow But no matter what, there will be ship-spinning -- it will be added to Incarna and you will be able to spin from the balcony.
That is bad, I don't need ship spinning from balcony, I need hangar. |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:18:00 -
[596]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson "We believe that the situation that has unfolded in the past week has been a perfect storm of CCP communication failures, poor planning and sheer bad luck."
Seriously, were you guys drunk when you wrote this?
There was no communication failure. There was a communication success. We got to know what CCP really thinks for a change. We got reliable accurate information in a timely manner for a change. This joint statement is a communication failure.
Poor planning? Well yes, but that's nothing new. CCP's plans for EVE (Internet Spaceships) suck. They sucked before. They will no doubt continue sucking. I don't think their plans have changed one iota because of this.
Bad luck? I'm not sure how you equate dishonesty and contempt with bad luck. It's unlucky that the folks at CCP are morally bankrupt?
Just quit and save the majority of players, who actually aren't as jaded and tinfoil-clad as you, the agony. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:18:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
And who knows, CCP may come up with something that seamlessly connects to Incarna that is more immersive than the current hangar, in which case I don't think there's a real problem.
well make us load incarna while on our pod, stucked on the bacony, and if you move you leave the pod if they are willing to work on a better thing, like they said, then i'm pretty sure they can find a solution that will load incarna while still being RP okay.
we want to be on our ship. they want us to load incarna then make us begin inside the ship. and if we click "leave ship", we appear as character
and when we launch the game we are always outisde the ship (better to sleep on our bed than on the goo)
something like that
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:20:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Lederstrumpf
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow At some point in time, Incarna will also have
Can you guarantee what you're promising here?
I'm not promising anything. I am telling you what I think CCP's position is, based on what I heard at the summit.
I don't work for CCP, and cannot make promises on their behalf. As a CSM, I represent you, I advocate on your behalf, I give CCP feedback when requested, and I keep you as informed as possible.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:22:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow One more flight before I get home... whew.
I want to clarify a few things about my quick explanation of ship spinning.
The discussion went like this:
CSM: CSM5 was promised that Incarna would load as fast and have similar functionality as the old Hangar. But this isn't so. And also, it melts video cards. What are you going to do?
Torfi: (To his credit, he offered this without prompting) Until we can get the performance to where it needs to be, we are going to implement something similar to the old hangar mode; that will be less costly to load (and thus faster) and will not contribute to global warming as much.
CSM: With ship-spinning?
Torfi: (Thinking fast!) Of course, ship-spinning!
CSM: (Removes Torfi's name from the "List of devs to be fed to the whales")
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong. But there is time to either convince them or (more likely) blackmail them. But no matter what, there will be ship-spinning -- it will be added to Incarna and you will be able to spin from the balcony.
And who knows, CCP may come up with something that seamlessly connects to Incarna that is more immersive than the current hangar, in which case I don't think there's a real problem.
As for why they can't just restore the old hangar, Torfi will have to chime in with the exact details, but the tl/dr is that it needs to be redone using their new graphics system (the one used by Incarna).
With respect to the issue of why CCP can't just say "NEVER" to gold ammo/P2W/whatever-you-want-to-call-it-this-week, I just posted a blog that gives my perspective on this.
Potter Stuart and the Purchase of Insurance
i dont personnal want anything to do with incaran, i jsut want a station enironment that fuctions and dosnt hog all my pc has to offer. incrana and man barbie can die off for all i care.
we all know ccp's way of implementing things, it will take for ever and it will suck just as much from peoepls pc's and probibly more. are they taht disconnected with players( almost everyone i know in game, corp and alliance) have and share this same view. we all multi box and ccp are currently killing that for many of us. no longer can i run 6 accounts, so im dam well not gonan pay for them.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:22:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Raid'En
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
And who knows, CCP may come up with something that seamlessly connects to Incarna that is more immersive than the current hangar, in which case I don't think there's a real problem.
well make us load incarna while on our pod, stucked on the bacony, and if you move you leave the pod if they are willing to work on a better thing, like they said, then i'm pretty sure they can find a solution that will load incarna while still being RP okay.
we want to be on our ship. they want us to load incarna then make us begin inside the ship. and if we click "leave ship", we appear as character
and when we launch the game we are always outisde the ship (better to sleep on our bed than on the goo)
something like that
That's what it sounds like they are doing. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
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Daxel Magmalloy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:23:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.
So they didn't listen then.
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Marcus Vorenius
Caldari Task Force 42
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:23:00 -
[602]
a refurbished door and another fluffy statement - did I miss anything? --------------------------- http://p3technocrat.blogspot.com/ |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:24:00 -
[603]
Reading is Fundamental!
Okay, I've had it with this forum, for now. Good luck, CSM. The real hyenas literally LIVE in these forums, and not in my corp. ;D ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:27:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Potter Stuart and the Purchase of Insurance
The truth is, we already have P2W in EVE. It's called PLEX. Right now, if you have enough money, you can buy PLEX, convert to ISK, and buy yourself as many supercaps as you want, and the pilots toons to fly them.
True. After a fashion. The difference is that when someone buys a PLEX from CCP and trades it to someone else in exchange for ISK with which to buys supercaps and characters to fly said monstermobiles, someone else will have put in the effort to get minerals and build the ship as well as paying for skilltime. And that difference is kind of important.
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Absolute Aftermath
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:29:00 -
[605]
So, there will be "ship spinnig". Are you all happy now? Jesus Christ.
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Chris Fierce
Caldari NoD Imperium
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:30:00 -
[606]
Edited by: Chris Fierce on 02/07/2011 21:33:59
Originally by: Chris Fierce So nothing important talked about then, like broken game mechanics and half assed expansions.
Enjoy your holidays.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489084&page=1
---------------------------
I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus. |
JGR Mao
Gallente JGR Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:30:00 -
[607]
Oh well Not really convinced as we did not get a definitive answer
But i guess it will have to do - atleast for now
Will definately be watching both what you say, and what you do more closely from now on.
Its ok to milk the cow - as long as you provide it some fresh pastures to munch on and generally keep it happy
Starving the cow to milk it even further, and then scaring it by bringin it to the slaughterhouse to sell its meat, will not work on these bloodthirsty voracious spacecows you have helped breeding here -mmkay!
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Moria Kethar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:31:00 -
[608]
While I understand your view Trebor and read it earlier, it doesn't negate the fact that direct sale of non-vanity items by CCP would bypass the player economy. I.e. the thing that makes the game go around. Items in game currently exist because a player worked to create them. And sale of things that are not item but do bypass game mechanics (standings, ect) have obvious game breaking effect. I've already said my piece - once in the threadnaught, and updated here (top of page 20) and it stands.
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ACY GTMI
Veerhouven Group The Veerhouven Group
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:32:00 -
[609]
This agreement will work for me for me for now. There are two issues that I would like to mention, though:
1. CCP's credibility with me has taken irreparable damage, and I see no reason to change my belief that CCP will eventually make decisions that will force me from the game.
2. Nowhere in the agreement is there a mention of any future effort to try to fix any of the many existing problems with the Eve client software, or the server side issues. If this was an oversight, or CCP intends to address these issues separately, fine. If not, it's going to continue to be a divisive issue, for me, and, I suspect, for many others. ***************************************************
This space available. |
Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:38:00 -
[610]
Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 21:38:53 A comment on Trebor's blog http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2011/07/potter-stuart-and-purchase-of-insurance.html
Quote:
Imagine for a moment that instead of making this a free remap, CCP had decided that it should have a cost. Consider the following three options:
A) You can remap once per year at a cost of 400 million ISK.
B) You can remap once per year at a cost of a PLEX.
C) You can remap once per year at a cost of 3500 AURUM.
If you surveyed groups of players about the acceptability of these options (set aside the inevitable *****ing that "it should be free" for a moment), I believe that A would be acceptable to the most players, and C to the fewest, and the difference in acceptability would be significant.
Why? Because ISK represents player effort, while AURUM is tainted by its association with monocles.
Yet in reality, all these options are roughly equivalent. If you have 400 million ISK, you can buy a PLEX. If you have a PLEX, you can convert it to 3500 AURUM. And if you have 3500 AURUM, you can buy some clothes and sell them in the market for ISK.
B and C are exactly equivalent, but A is very different.
PLEX->Remap and Aurum->Remap offers a fixed exchange rate.
PLEX->ISK->Remap does not because the PLEX->ISK exchange is based on the player market. The original PLEX system was very gentle on the sandbox environment because it was kept in check by demand. Aurum is not kept in check the same way and can therefore potentially have a much larger effect.
As another poster mentioned the mere existance of the NeX puts extra demand on PLEX, thus giving people a better exchange rate converting PLEX->ISK, but a worse rate converting ISK->gametime. So indirectly every item sold in the NeX buffs existing P2W options using PLEX.
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Neutral Updater
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:39:00 -
[611]
Edited by: Neutral Updater on 02/07/2011 21:39:03 *delete*
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:40:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna.
Did they explain why we must be forced into Incarna? Or did they explain why pilots must leave their pod every time they dock? I am hoping for an other answer then that this is CCP's way to promote NeX (and I would very much appreciate hearing about it).
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Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:40:00 -
[613]
Not everything I hoped, but pretty much exactly what I expected. Resubbing, for now. Future actions will be watched closely.
So we can get back to the normal everyday spaceship killing and general BS of Eve, right? Good! In that case, one comment on the video: could Mittani have any more ****ing product in his hair?
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:41:00 -
[614]
\o/
Now can we please get that AUR currency out of the game please? It's just the biggest bullcrap CCP ever came up with.
Also, since all those CCPs and Devs and such all have a color bar. Can we have a green one for CSM replies? Prettyplease..
Lastly: I hope we woke you up, CCP. We are not that silent group of players that takes things lightly. At least, most of us. --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Kai'il Bhaal
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:41:00 -
[615]
All those unhappy please unsub and biomass so the community at large does not have to listen to your *****ing. Thank you! Oh, and give me your stuff etc etc
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Slaghead
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:45:00 -
[616]
Something that might help CQ is if it had it's own tab of display settings. I have to turn my settings down when I dock and then I have to go and mess with them after I undock. Or at least if I use the presets.
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Ulmon Aulen
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:45:00 -
[617]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only."
Just imagine how much less of a controversy there would have been if CCP had said this in the first dev blog after the fearless leak.
All in all, I am quite pleased at the resolution reached.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:48:00 -
[618]
I got 99 problems but CCP aint one.
Perpetuum Online is great.
Humble Hungarians > Greedy Drunken Icelanders.
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Ketria Saine
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:49:00 -
[619]
As a new player of four months, I hope all EVE expansions are not like this!
So I've read the statements and watched the video, and I must admit I'm pretty happy. The three issues I had (NEX pricing and strategy, CQ performance, the hangar view) have all been addressed and dealt with. I am very pleased we're getting some sort of hangar view back eventually, and that the "Door" will remain an option in the meantime.
Hats off to the CSM for flying to Iceland at short notice and fighting our corner. I think they've done us proud. o7
And I do hope CCP have learned some hard lessons from the last couple of weeks.
-KS
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:50:00 -
[620]
Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 21:53:47
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna.
Did they explain why we must be forced into Incarna? Or did they explain why pilots must leave their pod every time they dock? I am hoping for an other answer then that this is CCP's way to promote NeX (and I would very much appreciate hearing about it).
Because it makes for a more seamless (hate the marketing word, but it's true) interaction between "flying in space" and "doing stuff based on your character".
I've always said that it would be better to have people dock in their hangar and make them want to join InCarna for its own values, but it makes sense to me that, if performance are equal, not having to go through an additional step makes the 2 more integrated. So if performance is equal, then it's acceptable to me otherwise it's just *****ing "I don't want InCarna". Well, InCarna's here whether we wanted it or not, so if it's there and docking/interacting doesn't take more resources, then it makes sense not to have the intermediary "hangar" step.
The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
Edit: and the reason the statements do not cover every edge-case is because we have to summarize 2 days of hectic discussion about all those cases into a few paragraphs, we feel the statement we made covers the points made by the players and addresses them. And yes, your dissection of every word and wriggle room and grey area and tiny detail that wasn't mentionned in the statement has been discussed and addressed. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:50:00 -
[621]
Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone,
I can see you guys are posting faster than I can read though the comments but I wanted to jump in and answer one or two of your queries. I want you to note that my answers here are not the be all and end all and, like most technical decisions, these are subject to change depending on hardware and technical requirements. I will certainly be passing on a lot of your questions to people who are much more informed on the subject and can drop by this thread early next week and provide greater clarification:
Return of ship spinning
This is something that a lot of players are curious about and what I can tell you is that we will implement a form of ship spinning but we are not returning to the old hangar view. This new variation will be similar and, while you can spin your ship, it will not be exactly how it was before. The time line for designing, testing and implementing this new variation of ship spinning has not been finalized but we will bring you more information in a future dev blog.
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
EVE Online, the future and Incarna
Some of you are concerned that EVE will focus on improvements to Incarna while Flying in Space will have a lesser focus. I can assure you that CCP Soundwave and his team have some announcements coming up after the summer which will make you very happy indeed. yes, we will improve on Incarna while at the same time improving on many aspects of Flying in Space. I have no intention of stealing the thunder from Team BFF and telling you what these are but I can tell you that there will be many happy people as a result
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
Just so CCP knows it is really 'stupid' and 'silly' from a player's POV to not just return the old hangar view and stick a damn button that says 'exit pod' or 'disembark' somewhere. Instead CCP is 'ignoring' us in deciding to, once again, reinvent the wheel with a 'new' version of the old hangar that from what the dev blog says will be temporary until HW/SW issues are worked out in CQ/Incarna.
IT *MIGHT* be 'okay' to reinvent the wheel had you listened to us months ago or kept your promise to make CQ optional so you would have had time to reinvent the ship's hangar again but YOU (CCP) CHOSE to ignore it and push on with CQ for all damn the hw/sw issues being reported.
Minimum Specs, AGAIN really pointless to just up the requirements for a poorly designed/implemented 'engine' that is Incarna, it isn't done, there are still bugs. Toss in the fact that it SHOULD be optional and it makes NO sense to up the minimum specs but that isn't the point and we are all smart enough to know you mean to force us to use Incarna to push the sales of NEX, etc. IF there was actually CONTENT(gameplay) for CQ/Incarna you wouldn't NEED to force people to use it. They'd check it out and use it on their own because it actually was AWESOME instead of taking your stick, prying us out of our pods and tossing us into the 'room'.
I hope there is good news and it isn't a year or more away, I think we are all concerned about more Incarna expansions with no content, followed by expanding PI so you can setup DUST while the SPACE game we signed up for comes in 3rd place/last.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:51:00 -
[622]
I have patiently waited for the outcome of this emergency summit, and I'm glad I did. Having read the statements from CCP and the CSM gave me back some confidence in the future of EvE. For me that is a good thing, because I have found it to be a wonderful game in many aspects. It truly is a Si-Fi world I can happily get lost in (and often do). CCP has at least to some point shown that they are committed to keep EvE that way. Not as a static never changing environment, but as a vibrant and evolving Si-Fi simulation.
There is only one thing I'm worried about and that is regarding the ability of my hardware to run two accounts simultaneously:
Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one. This continuing issue has me worried, but not put off.
CCP made promises regarding the future of EvE and their future communication efforts towards the CSM and the player base as a whole, as did the CSM to CCP and to the players they represent to make sure CCP keeps those promises. And that is also good.
Now I will just wait for that future to happen. I'm looking forward to it, please don't disappoint me.
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Kueijin Legion
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:51:00 -
[623]
That's it...
So let me get this **** straight. Your paying customers asked some very simple questions (P2W?, why you melty my cardy?, WTF a door?). Instead of answering those questions in a timely manner, you get all evasive, post some smart assed devblog, halt communications with your paying customers, and fly some CSM people (who I didn't vote for, yet they represent my interests...yeah right) all the way to your frozen paradise. All so we could get a cliffnotes blog and a creepy manlove video?
...
HOLY **** IS CCP OUT OF TOUCH!!!
If what was said in that small blog was the case, why the hell didn't you say that a week ago you twits?! Are you that brain dead?!
And it's not like I trust CCP to keep its word on anything after multiple lies and that smarmy assed email from Hilmar that he has such a boner about finding who leaked it.
CCP treating employees like you apparently do is what got you egg on your face and the truth revealed, not some "miscommunication". Try selling your condescending BS somewhere else.
This "Golden Goose" has flown the coop and taken his eggs with him.
**** you CCP, and especially **** you Hilmar! |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:51:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow One more flight before I get home... whew.
[snip] With respect to the issue of why CCP can't just say "NEVER" to gold ammo/P2W/whatever-you-want-to-call-it-this-week, I just posted a blog that gives my perspective on this.
Potter Stuart and the Purchase of Insurance
i dont personnal want anything to do with incaran, i jsut want a station enironment that fuctions and dosnt hog all my pc has to offer. incrana and man barbie can die off for all i care.
we all know ccp's way of implementing things, it will take for ever and it will suck just as much from peoepls pc's and probibly more. are they taht disconnected with players( almost everyone i know in game, corp and alliance) have and share this same view. we all multi box and ccp are currently killing that for many of us. no longer can i run 6 accounts, so im dam well not gonan pay for them.
Good article Trebor...
Smoking Blunts, I have to go with you on most of this, I can't run 3 accounts with the station environment loaded, but can run all 5 without it just fine, I read the Dev blog about how Incarna only impacted older machines, ect ect in a negative fashion and I don't buy it for a minute... I have an i7 quad core/24 gigs ram/dual EVGA cards(advertised by EVE complete with discount codes) and still running 3 accounts cripples my machine when that stuff's loaded...
here's an older pic of it before the new stuffs was added...
Unlike most folks, I actually "LIKE" the station stuff though and I think that being able to walk around in it does in fact add a little something to the game for me, I like looking at my CQ and walking around in it when I'm just sitting idle and doing nothing, or (since I work from home) when I'm working and logged in chatting with my friends in between support tickets, but, at the current load on the system?, I'd rather just do without it altogether until it is as light as pre-incarna.
o/
K.S.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:53:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Ravcharas
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Potter Stuart and the Purchase of Insurance
The truth is, we already have P2W in EVE. It's called PLEX. Right now, if you have enough money, you can buy PLEX, convert to ISK, and buy yourself as many supercaps as you want, and the pilots toons to fly them.
True. After a fashion. The difference is that when someone buys a PLEX from CCP and trades it to someone else in exchange for ISK with which to buys supercaps and characters to fly said monstermobiles, someone else will have put in the effort to get minerals and build the ship as well as paying for skilltime. And that difference is kind of important.
I entirely agree, and this :effort: aspect (as opposed to :poof it appears out of thin air:) is one dimension that IMHO divides legitimate stuff from pay2win. But it's not the only thing, and it can get mighty murky really fast.
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SunTsu Rae
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:54:00 -
[626]
Like the song says, "Only Time Will Tell" . . . . .
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:56:00 -
[627]
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.
So they didn't listen then.
Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.
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Can of Beans
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:56:00 -
[628]
I'm still not convinced. Saying 'there are no plans and never have been' isn't saying 'there never will be plans' for gold ammo.
My accounts are staying unsubbed.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:56:00 -
[629]
Originally by: SunTsu Rae Like the song says, "Only Time Will Tell" . . . . .
As always. But at least the bad things haven't been introduced, and we dispelled the notion that they were planned for introduction. Should that change obviously so will our stance. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Cham Palaung
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Posted - 2011.07.02 21:59:00 -
[630]
The simple FACT that CCP have not been able to give us any clear answer immediatly, and that they made us wait so long, is for me a clear clue that their original intention was to introduce non-vanity items. They tried everything to win time, simply because they had not this answer at start. They have changed their plan when they saw that they could not continue the way they had planned, this time. But they had the intention to introduce non-vanity items, as the leaked document and many other clues are showing it. So i am sure that they have not lost this intention, they will just try to make it later, in a more "subtle" way. No, their words have no value for me. I won't renew my subscription. I will wait, long, and watch very carefully what they will do. Their reaction has been too unnatural and illogical to be honest. Why doing all this circus and being always so unclear when it would have taken five minuts to answer in a very clear manner the big yellow question. All that sound wrong.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:00:00 -
[631]
Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.
Someone from CCP should answer this in more detail, but we spent some time discussing issues with various cards, and CCP is aware of many of these issues. They are working hard on them.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:01:00 -
[632]
Its a start and I hope that CCP really mean it this time. 5 years of playing and this isn't the EVE that dragged me in all those years ago.
PLEASE CCP get this next expansion right, I don't care if you have to delay it 3 months to get it right but don't release another Incarna, I don't think you can afford another disaster like this.
I will stick around for now, but I will hinge my final move on what is to come this winter.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:02:00 -
[633]
Originally by: CCP Shadow Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40 We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.
Originally by: CCP Shadow No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.
Originally by: CCP Shadow Are you trolling me bro? Cool
Our business model isn't changing, you all have nothing to be concerned about.
So a year ago you weren't planing on Micro Transactions. Today you aren't planning on non-vanity Micro Transactions. Interesting indeed.
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Slaghead
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:03:00 -
[634]
I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.
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John Zorg
Caldari The Damned Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:06:00 -
[635]
Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28 I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.
You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...
A comment from CCP would be appreciated...
JZ
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:06:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.
So they didn't listen then.
Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.
Thank you very much for this response. It removes the need to think about this any more.
Now canceling my 3 remaining accounts.
Decant to change ammo? If CCP doesn't wise up to how mind-boggling stupid that is, I shudder to think what else might be shoved down our throat later on. Luckily this account doesn't expire until October, so I'll keep an eye on things until then and hope for the best.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:07:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Sarina Berghil Edited by: Sarina Berghil on 02/07/2011 21:38:53 A comment on Trebor's blog http://treborofthecsm.blogspot.com/2011/07/potter-stuart-and-purchase-of-insurance.html
Quote:
Imagine for a moment that instead of making this a free remap, CCP had decided that it should have a cost. Consider the following three options:
A) You can remap once per year at a cost of 400 million ISK.
B) You can remap once per year at a cost of a PLEX.
C) You can remap once per year at a cost of 3500 AURUM.
If you surveyed groups of players about the acceptability of these options (set aside the inevitable *****ing that "it should be free" for a moment), I believe that A would be acceptable to the most players, and C to the fewest, and the difference in acceptability would be significant.
Why? Because ISK represents player effort, while AURUM is tainted by its association with monocles.
Yet in reality, all these options are roughly equivalent. If you have 400 million ISK, you can buy a PLEX. If you have a PLEX, you can convert it to 3500 AURUM. And if you have 3500 AURUM, you can buy some clothes and sell them in the market for ISK.
B and C are exactly equivalent, but A is very different.
PLEX->Remap and Aurum->Remap offers a fixed exchange rate.
PLEX->ISK->Remap does not because the PLEX->ISK exchange is based on the player market. The original PLEX system was very gentle on the sandbox environment because it was kept in check by demand. Aurum is not kept in check the same way and can therefore potentially have a much larger effect.
As another poster mentioned the mere existance of the NeX puts extra demand on PLEX, thus giving people a better exchange rate converting PLEX->ISK, but a worse rate converting ISK->gametime. So indirectly every item sold in the NeX buffs existing P2W options using PLEX.
The price has been slowly rising on PLEX for years, it has only ballooned as of resent. The price will most likely go up for various other reasons as well as the one you mentioned. The one factor I see, as more an more people come into the game, aka new players, there should be an increase in the sale of GTCs an into PLEX, which should lower the price of PLEX because the market is getting fed more. It could also be possible that PLEX will skyrocket, Hello Kitty on a pink drake, I want one just for the lulz. Although, I am not too sure I would say people will buy the PLEXes from ingame. Personally, if I was serious about the pink drake, an needed the AUR, I would whip out my credit card, not spend my isk.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 -
[638]
Edited by: Brainless Bimbo on 02/07/2011 22:13:18
Did the CSM explain clearly that if they had been straight up to us about wanting to use Incarna as a development platform (which it is) and the need to get huge amounts of data on its every aspect for WoD development, we would have gone, yeah, lets do it, push the envelope. If they had said we need more revenue for development of Carbon which will benefit eve, can we sell you cosmetic bling via MT using Plex as a sink in Incarna, it will also help to get the bugs out of WoD, we would have said, yeah, more power to you.
That is why i¦m upset and still am, eve built CCP it deserves some respect.
CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. October 2010 CSM Virtual Goods unveiled
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Dun Bar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 -
[639]
Woot Woot
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:08:00 -
[640]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
was that so hard?
oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.
While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.
However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.
so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:10:00 -
[641]
Originally by: MotherMoon "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
was that so hard?
oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.
While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.
However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.
so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.
I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?
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Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:12:00 -
[642]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
(words)
(more words)
(even more words)
Thanks for the answer. To have the goal to make it seamless is something I can understand. IMO it can easily be an option in the esc menue that you either dock to Incarna or dock hangar and then can leave the pod if you like. Either way, hopefully they let the new hangar stay or make Incarna run so smooth that I do not care if it is there or not.
I have always been in the "I don't care about Incarna as long as it's optional" ^^
Quote:
Edit: and the reason the statements do not cover every edge-case is because we have to summarize 2 days of hectic discussion about all those cases into a few paragraphs, we feel the statement we made covers the points made by the players and addresses them. And yes, your dissection of every word and wriggle room and grey area and tiny detail that wasn't mentionned in the statement has been discussed and addressed.
Umm.. I guess that was a general remark to the whole thread since I haven't commented grey areas nor dissected any words at all.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:13:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Slaghead I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.
Yes, but there is no plan to change the plan (we actually talked about that possibility) and any grey area or change or anything will be discussed.
----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:14:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow But no matter what, there will be ship-spinning -- it will be added to Incarna and you will be able to spin from the balcony.
I just want to chime in to say this is a point the playerbase and CSM are absolutely wrong on. Spinning ships from the balcony is immersion breaking and stupid. So I just sit there and make a ship I'm not in go in a circle? Previous "ship spinning" was actually camera spinning. But if the ship actually goes in a circle, that would be dumb and even more immersion breaking than leaving my pod every time I redock.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:14:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Kueijin Legion a creepy manlove video?
Laughed so hard I think I broke a rib.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:15:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.
Someone from CCP should answer this in more detail, but we spent some time discussing issues with various cards, and CCP is aware of many of these issues. They are working hard on them.
i petitioned like they said, sent my dxdiag liek they said. they told me to bug report it. what am i ment to bug report incarna? why dont they actually have technical support peopel working as petition handeling gm. with all the problems poeple are having with incarna, a team of them should be looking after peopels issues. the gm i spoke to didnt ahev a clue. plus there is a bug in teh petition system that eats half of teh text after you send it.. awesom job ccp
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:15:00 -
[647]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Daxel Magmalloy
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong.
So they didn't listen then.
Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.
So instead you gave us some 'make them feel good and bury the truth' blog and it'll all go away? Amirite?
Great stuff, at least you had our backs and were honest.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:16:00 -
[648]
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: MotherMoon "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
was that so hard?
oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.
While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.
However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.
so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.
I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?
Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.
The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Torsten Hjaltland
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:20:00 -
[649]
Looks like some good work has been done and some lessons learned. Bring on the Patches ESP the replacement of the brown door with my active ship. Thanks to all involved CCP and the CSM.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:21:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.
The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period.
So that means that nigh everything in "Fearless" is true you know, apart from the one speculative discussion.
CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. October 2010 CSM Virtual Goods unveiled
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The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:21:00 -
[651]
Originally by: John Zorg Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28 I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.
You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...
A comment from CCP would be appreciated...
JZ
Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but: - you are giving game time to a player that need it to play; - you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX. - you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).
This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game. ----
Now, on the original topic of this thread.
This blog is what I've expected to see in order to stay in the game. In fact, I'm already in the process of resubscribing my industrial accounts (all 4 of them) in the next couple of days (most likely during the next week).
Thank you CCP for making this great game and for listening to your players. Thank you CSM for flying to Iceland on such a short notice and representing our views.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
The statement represents the views of the company. Period.
I would imagine anyone who wants a paycheck an a job next week will agree to any sort of representation the company insists they make, I would.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
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Bellator Militaris
Caldari Freelancers Coalition Joined Brotherhood
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:22:00 -
[654]
Thank you to the members of the CSM for standing up for the players of EVE. Its really simple: " Keep giving the players of EVE what they desire" Listen to your players....and you CCP will have them for a very long time. Without the Pilots EVE is an empty Space. Bellator Militaris (Player Born Oct. 2006)
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Youli Kepain
Scapegoats
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 -
[655]
Edited by: Youli Kepain on 02/07/2011 22:24:35
Originally by: Chrysanthemum Korik
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
You realize they can make a new plan tomorrow that sells sp, isk and ships in the store for cash and the above statement is still true? What we wanted them to say and is apparently too hard for them to say is to commit as they have previously to not selling non-vanity items in the future. They have not committed to that yet.
Originally by: Dalketh STUPIDEST THING SAID EVER. (Sorry poster but it is)
No it's not, and I'll tell you why. It was shown that the mere possibility of selling non-vanity items released a ****storm and I think CCP understands now that if they should change their plan of not having a non-vanity-item-plan would release the biggest f***king ****hurricane in the history of the internet. So for the forseeable future we are safe from that. If that should change in let's say 1-2 years, unsubbing is always an option.
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Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Why so many qualifiers? Please bare in mind that you have created a very cynical playerbase with this game with all the scams etc. You have also previosly stated no plans for microtransactions at all, yet here we now have microtransactions.
Let me break this down into chunks:
"There are no plans, and have been no plans"
No plans to do something is not a commitment to not do that thing. This statement says nothing of possible future plans and leaves the door wide open. Just like "We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE." (from CCP Shadow in the above link)
"game breaking items or enhancements"
This says that items or enhancements can be added so long as they are not game breaking. How exactly do you define "game breaking"? It's a very subjective term. Apparently nullsec anomolies and jump bridges were game breaking... "No in game advantage bought by money rather than time" goes some way to solidify this however.
"in the NeX store"
So if game breaking items or enhancements are sold in the new IWE (I Win EVE) Store, this statement will still be true because those items were not sold in the NeX store.
So to summarise, there is a huge amount of room for the addition of gold ammo type items via microtransactions based on the CCP statements. I hope the assurances given to the CSM were more concrete than the statements given here.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 -
[657]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: MotherMoon "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
was that so hard?
oddly I feel like it really was. Without the visit of the CSM to iceland and roits I really don't think CCP was ready to say no forever. And who can blame them now that they have said it, during a time when more ears are on them than normal, they can never break this statement without huge back lash.
While if they never say anything 100% set in stone, they had the OPTION to expand, and what company doesn't want room to expand. However at least in my eyes, I will think about resubbing when incrana has 4 CQs, and that door is repalced with the hanger view.
However that's much better than what I felt 4 days agos ago with was I would never come back ever.
so thanks CSM and thanks CCP.
I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?
Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.
The statements we get now come from CCP Zulu, Senior Producer for Eve Online, have been seen and commented on by CCP Hellmar, CEO, Several members of Game Design and Marketing were present during those discussions as well. The statement represents the views of the company. Period.
How much is CCP paying you? Or is that part of the NDA?
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Bizzi Zeitschrift
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:24:00 -
[658]
Originally by: CyberGh0st Well, with this statement I could resub again in good conscience, however I am a bit burned out, and want to see how it goes.
So while I have good hope, I am not resubbing just yet.
Idle threats...why would you have to resub "just yet"? Clearly your sub hasn't even run out just yet.
And all of you that got so knee jerk mad at this and are STILL mad are looking for things to be mad at. There will be no pleasing you guys..ever.
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Laplamis
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:25:00 -
[659]
'Summit' covers what are mostly phantom problems, while substantive issues remain unaddressed.
Can't say I blame the CSM; we have no real power against this company, EVE is their property.
Will not be resubbing before real reforms occur. |
Jennie Marlboro
Navy of Xoc The Remnant Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:26:00 -
[660]
Good job, CSM.
I'm not convinced CCP did not, in fact, plan to sell gold ammo and other non-vanity items, but I am convinced that, for now at least, you've driven a spike through the heart of those plans. And good for CCP for taking seriously its players' concerns. Hopefully, that will continue.
CCP has quite a lot of bright people on its payroll. I'm sure they can design items that won't affect gameplay that people will want to buy -- especially once they open up the stations.
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:28:00 -
[661]
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: John Zorg Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28 I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.
You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...
A comment from CCP would be appreciated...
JZ
Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but: - you are giving game time to a player that need it to play; - you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX. - you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).
This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game. ----
If your rich an have lots of money, your BUYING an advantage, if your not rich, an don't have money, your not buy anything, but pounding sand. Whether you want to spin it as P2W, or not, it still gives an advantage to people who can afford it. Like someone said on a blog, no one seems to be able to clearly define P2W. Now, this may not be CCP selling you the stuff, it is coming from other players, but it still takes REAL money to make all this work, one way or another.
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Celedraug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:28:00 -
[662]
A serious question for the CSM with all your supposed tough talking with CCP - what did you "win" here?
No change in what has already been said about MTs. Last year CCP had said "none at all", this year they say "only vanity items", what about next year? No plans is what they said before your ""conference", no plans is what they say now but the fact is, given the first "change of plans'; neither the CSM nor the players can trust that statement.
Whats the limits on vanity items - was this discussed? - will I be able to buy a Raven that has flame decals down the side from the store? - same stats, same ship, vanity only but created by CCP not the players. This is an important point for the playerbase but does not seem to be addressed.
Old hanger function back - apparent win? not really - we will get a temporary hanger back .... sometime (that covers a lot of ground) and then back to incarna only with the "promise" that it will be better. That is not what the majority of forum posts on the subject wanted so a loss for the players.
Please bullet point for us all what was actually achieved here?
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Telion Rethson
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:28:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Telion Rethson on 02/07/2011 22:33:38 Well, most of my concerns have been addressed, apart from one, which could potentially be quite a major issue. That issue is the leaked Hilmar email. The CSM said:
Quote: The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
Which is all fine and well, but one major thing is missing - any kind of comment from CCP on this. In the Hilmar email, there is this passage:
Quote: We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone.
This suggests that, amongst other things, the Fearless newsletter depicted the intended future of Eve. This newsletter emphatically and blatently advocates non-vanity items for real-life cash. This would appear to contradict the statements that:
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
and
Originally by: CSM We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins.
So, is Hilmar's email correct, or are these statements correct? I can only see three scenarios:
1) Hilmar's email is correct, and the statement about 'no plans for vanity items' is simply a lie by CCP, which the CSM were tricked into believing. I sincerely hope this is not the correct scenario.
2) Hilmar's email is wrong, or badly worded, and, despite what it says, there never have been any plans for non-vanity items for real-life cash, as these statements indicate. If this is the correct scenario, I would expect Hilmar to publicly indicate that he realises he 'dun goofed'.
3) Hilmar's email is correct in that, at one time, there were plans to sell non-vanity items, but these plans are now utterly scrapped, so the statements are accurate in that there are now no plans to do this, but are wrong when they say there never were. If this is the correct scenario, I would urge CCP to be honest enough to admit it.
EDIT:I will say this in defence of CCP. To those asking for a statement of 'CCP will never introduce non-vanity items into NeX', unfortunately, the folk at CCP are not clairvoyant, nor have crystal balls. As such, they cannot honestly make such a statement. The best you can ask from them is to indicate whether there are currently any plans whatsoever to do so. They have said 'no'. It just took much longer than it should have for them to say this, which is one thing that makes me think that scenario 3 above is the correct one.
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AJ Falconi
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:30:00 -
[664]
A New Player's Perspective
I had ony just discovered EVE and subscribed about 4 weeks ago, after playing only 3 days of a 14-day trial. It was exactly the game style I've been looking for, and I was having a great time.
Then Incarna released, and this controversy and the protest movement erupted.
It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
It was funny at first, but quickly got a bit worrying. It made me ask myself whether I should continue subscribing if EVE's future was really so uncertain. So I'm glad that CCP now seems to be listening to the players, but it makes me sad that it required a summit in Iceland and days of difficult negotiations.
I have my own opinions about the various issues being raised:
1) Play-To-Win
I applaud CCP's committment never to sell non-vanity items in the NeX. This was the only real deal-breaker for me. I can't see myself playing a even a free game where I'm at a disadvantage if I don't spend real money for in-game items. I certainly would never pay subscription fees for such a game.
(I can live with PLEX as an alternative to black-market ISK sales. What I can't stand is the idea that buying and selling characters is allowed. How is this not a EULA violation? If I had to start a new character with no skills, so should everyone else.)
2) Docking
I like the concept of being able to walk around in-station and interact with other pilots outside my ship. But right now, there's no point in loading CQ because it's nothing more than a prison cell.
I also strongly agree with all the players who are saying that the player experience ought to be Space <-> Hangar <-> Walking. I don't understand why CCP is so resistant to this. It's what the players want, it's easy to do, and would be a big PR win. It doesn't have to be hanger *or* CQ" when it can be hangar *and* CQ. Until this happens, I'll be leaving CQ turned off, because most of the time I'm docking only for a very short time.
So, my message to CCP is simple: Make the CQ great, so that players will *want* to disembark. But don't force them into a prison cell every time they dock.
3) Performance
I don't have any performance issues with my hardware. It's not top-of-the-line, but it's not ancient either. I especially appreciate being able to span multiple monitors with the UI.
Also, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are trying to run multiple clients on low-end PCs. Frankly, the idea of running multiple simultaneous accounts strikes me as a bit "play-to-win" already. I don't see how to prevent it, but asking the UI to be low-end enough to support multiple instances on one low-end PC is asking too much.
Finally, I also have one issue of my own to raise.
As a new player, while I am enjoying the game for now, I do worry about my ability to compete with players who have many more years of skill-points invested, and who may have advantages that I can never get. For example, I hate the idea that there are high-end blueprints that I can never have simply because a limited supply was distributed by lottery long before I started playing. A new character should have every opportunity to succeed that a player who began when EVE first released (8 years ago?).
So, CCP, thanks for taking player concerns seriously. I realize you have a business to run, but unless you're building the game that the players want, you're won't succeed.
And CSM members, thanks for being strong and vigorous representatives of player concerns. Don't let either CCP or mindless player rage keep you from doing everything you can to make EVE a great game for everyone.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:31:00 -
[665]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
I understand the sentiment and argument, it's one I and several others of the CSM have consistently made since May 2010 (first CSM 5 meeting where we were introduced to InCarna). InCarna should stand on its own merit and not be forced down the throat of unwilling participants. I agree.
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Malak Alraheem
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:32:00 -
[666]
Edited by: Malak Alraheem on 02/07/2011 22:32:39 For me I will accept what was said. The NeX side of things was a major concern for me but extremely secondary to performance issues.
I had been running three accounts on a single quad-core machine with a mid-range video card with no problem. With this new client the stability with two accounts running is poor, three is very unstable and unplayable. Because of those changes and the apparent neglect of information or concern up to this point about players like me that play this way I see no point in paying to maintain all three accounts. So to paraphrase the blog:
"CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but I want it to be clear that the current maximum subscription payment by me is a single client until this stability issue is addressed."
I do not need to load and waste time (or system resources) with the walking in stations system to dock, unload salvage, reload ammo, and head back out. Please make a function in the menu to turn off the walking in stations unless the player hits a button like they would to load the fittings or check the market.
Also, please add: The ability to choose being in your cabin or on the catwalk at login. The ability to be facing your ship when you dock. The ability to right click on the ship in your hangar to perform functions. The ability to not show a ship if you are not in a ship. Split out the graphics settings from 'inside stations' and 'out in space'. The game suffers horribly from the lack of this ability now.
Thank you
p.s. CCP Sreegs anti-bot blog, still waiting. . I'm as mad as I can take it and I'm not going to hell anymore!
I have reassigned my money for CCP to other projects for the next 18 months... |
Edmar
Ship Depot
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:32:00 -
[667]
Now that it's locked, I have parsley thread withdrawal.
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Rakamy
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:33:00 -
[668]
I for one am very happy with the results of the special summit. I think CCP and the CSM handled the hot topic issues professionally and with satisfactory results.
It's my only hope that the return of "ship spinning" which CCP said will come at a later date. Doesn't end up like the proposed rebalancing of hybrids which has been "coming at a later date" for what 2 years now?
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GeneralMartok
Caldari the united
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:33:00 -
[669]
its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
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Rens Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:34:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Celedraug
Whats the limits on vanity items - was this discussed? - will I be able to buy a Raven that has flame decals down the side from the store? - same stats, same ship, vanity only but created by CCP not the players. This is an important point for the playerbase but does not seem to be addressed.
Simple question for CCP then:
Will vanity items be sold in the store that are just reskins of items that players make for the market?
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:34:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Mag's I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
Yeah, I'd like to add that I also want WiS, just not when I'm only docking to grab the right kind of tank to fight off an incursion, etc.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:35:00 -
[672]
Edited by: Heavenly Blues on 02/07/2011 22:36:07
Originally by: GeneralMartok its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
Hey look, this guy could have gotten a blowjob with what he spent on his e-monocle.
edit: Also the monocles look like butt. I've seen better art work in games from the 1990s.
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:36:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg There is only one thing I'm worried about and that is regarding the ability of my hardware to run two accounts simultaneously:
Originally by: Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online The CSM raised concerns with performance running multiple clients after the Incarna launch where the minimum hardware spec will only support one client logged in when in a station environment. CCP will work on creating a minimum hardware spec that supports multiple clients, but wants it to be clear that the current minimum specification aims at single client with low settings.
My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run two clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.
No, you are not, I have dual 460's in my system and can't run 3 clients without getting bogged down to a few frames per second. --------------- Display Devices --------------- Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 460 Manufacturer: NVIDIA Chip type: GeForce GTX 460 DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC Display Memory: 4065 MB Dedicated Memory: 993 MB Shared Memory: 3071 MB Current Mode: 1920 x 1200 (32 bit) (59Hz) Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor Monitor Model: DELL 2405FPW
CCP needs to really look at this aspect hard and long to resolve it in a manner that's consistent with their own promises and statements.
o/ K.S.
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Debbie DoesDallas
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:36:00 -
[674]
Its unfortunate that CCP seemingly forgot how to communicate effectively with its player base. They've done fairly well in the past. I'm glad to hear the results of the summit. Thanks to the CSM's for the short notice trip.
The Incarna bugs are bad but then again, we all remember some bad bugs introduced in other expansions as well. They will have to fix em and hopefully soon.
I hope to see more content upgrades in the future and less WiS. How about fleshing out the T3 line to include other ship types? What about incorporating some of the winning ship designs from the last contest? I see more effort in a NeX store than I do with things that contribute to actual spaceship violence and that's sad. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:37:00 -
[675]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
I understand the sentiment and argument, it's one I and several others of the CSM have consistently made since May 2010 (first CSM 5 meeting where we were introduced to InCarna). InCarna should stand on its own merit and not be forced down the throat of unwilling participants. I agree.
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Then why the disingenuous CSM blog? Why dance around the houses and not come straight out and say, "sorry chaps, you don't get what you want, you have no choice"?
I think that's what naffed me off the most and I'm pretty naffed off with what you didn't sort out.
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Esrevid Nekkeg
Justified and Ancient
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:39:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Esrevid Nekkeg My machine exceeds the present recommended system configuration on every point except for the fact that I have a NVIDIA Gforce GT430 instead of a GTX460 in my PC. And it can not run to clients without seriously overheating and in general slowing down to an unacceptable level. And having read several posts regarding that or similar hardware issues, I know I'm not the only one.
Someone from CCP should answer this in more detail, but we spent some time discussing issues with various cards, and CCP is aware of many of these issues. They are working hard on them.
Good to know, thanks. I will wait to see what their hard work brings us then. Like I said, I'm worried about this, not put off.
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GeneralMartok
Caldari the united
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:39:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: GeneralMartok its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
Hey look, this guy could have gotten a blowjob with what he spend on his e-monocle.
I bought 2 quafe shirts, a monocle, sterling dress shirt, commando pants and precision boots without spending RL money, I did this for your juicy tears and to show support for CCP over the tantrums of the chromosomally challenged
Maybe if the denziens of eve protested in this manner over botting, we'd actually have some progress in that arena
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:39:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
I don't think resisting means much to CCP. Most companys know new things come with a risk, as well as rewards. Hilmar said it best, wait an watch. Seems CCP doled out just enough to make some happy, an stop them from leaving. Now, the loss won't hurt as bad, an they can continue on as planned.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:41:00 -
[679]
Originally by: AJ Falconi A New Player's Perspective
I had ony just discovered EVE and subscribed about 4 weeks ago, after playing only 3 days of a 14-day trial. It was exactly the game style I've been looking for, and I was having a great time.
Then Incarna released, and this controversy and the protest movement erupted.
It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
It was funny at first, but quickly got a bit worrying. It made me ask myself whether I should continue subscribing if EVE's future was really so uncertain. So I'm glad that CCP now seems to be listening to the players, but it makes me sad that it required a summit in Iceland and days of difficult negotiations.
As a new player, while I am enjoying the game for now, I do worry about my ability to compete with players who have many more years of skill-points invested, and who may have advantages that I can never get. For example, I hate the idea that there are high-end blueprints that I can never have simply because a limited supply was distributed by lottery long before I started playing. A new character should have every opportunity to succeed that a player who began when EVE first released (8 years ago?).
So, CCP, thanks for taking player concerns seriously. I realize you have a business to run, but unless you're building the game that the players want, you're won't succeed.
And CSM members, thanks for being strong and vigorous representatives of player concerns. Don't let either CCP or mindless player rage keep you from doing everything you can to make EVE a great game for everyone.
You missed the part where players told CCP all those things in testing, or in various other threads that depicted the majority of issues known to us before Incarna. What couldn't be discussed 'rationally' were the leaked documents that CCP would not comment on except to spin in the dev blogs, and the email they have yet to comment on.
As far as tech2 bpo's get over it, I've been in game nearly 2 years I don't have any, if you want them so bad you can waste billions of isk in the hopes that you will recoup their ridiculously high price over the course of YEARS of non stop production or a resale. I can play fine w/o having them you don't need them to play you don't need them to have fun. You might as well be complaining that as a child you didn't go to the school that offered a free trip to 'Pick your favorite country' to visit and it ruined your life forever.
If you choose to learn the game mechanics and how other players make use of the rules to their advantage you are going to be about 'equal' to other players in various situations. It is very rare players fight each other one on one and in that case odds are you aren't going to be equal on any number of points, skills, ships, time in game, etc. I'm not going to rehash SP issues go read the new citizens forums or the thread about 'too many veterans in the game' that issue is discussed over and over every time a new player doesn't get it.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:41:00 -
[680]
Originally by: AJ Falconi A New Player's Perspective
3) Performance
I don't have any performance issues with my hardware. It's not top-of-the-line, but it's not ancient either. I especially appreciate being able to span multiple monitors with the UI.
Also, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are trying to run multiple clients on low-end PCs. Frankly, the idea of running multiple simultaneous accounts strikes me as a bit "play-to-win" already. I don't see how to prevent it, but asking the UI to be low-end enough to support multiple instances on one low-end PC is asking too much.
i think yourll find most peopel that run more than one account have decent pc's and have invested time and money into a pc that pre incarna would do fine running many accounts.
for me 8 clients wasnt a issue before this patch, now anymore than 3 is very problematic. why do i need to go and spend another ú1000 upgrading my hardware when a few weeks ago there was no issue. we also not just talking CQ here, the client even with that off is using way more than it used to. its like comparing pre dominion and post dominion performances, with 1 patch ccp screwed fleet warfare and so far havnt come close to fixing the problems they introduced.
i fear that the same is true now. 18-2 years from now the problem they have introduced wont ahve been fixed, and infact it will probibly be far far worse
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:41:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Celedraug A serious question for the CSM with all your supposed tough talking with CCP - what did you "win" here?
No change in what has already been said about MTs. Last year CCP had said "none at all", this year they say "only vanity items", what about next year? No plans is what they said before your ""conference", no plans is what they say now but the fact is, given the first "change of plans'; neither the CSM nor the players can trust that statement.
Whats the limits on vanity items - was this discussed? - will I be able to buy a Raven that has flame decals down the side from the store? - same stats, same ship, vanity only but created by CCP not the players. This is an important point for the playerbase but does not seem to be addressed.
Old hanger function back - apparent win? not really - we will get a temporary hanger back .... sometime (that covers a lot of ground) and then back to incarna only with the "promise" that it will be better. That is not what the majority of forum posts on the subject wanted so a loss for the players.
Please bullet point for us all what was actually achieved here?
We won the clarification that the stance depicted in Fearless (the "Greed is Good?" PDF) does not represent plans for the addition of pay2win in Eve Online. We argued about cases upon cases upon cases for hours (quite litteraly). CCP understands what we say and it is their stance as well. So we clarified their stance. We deliberately steered clear of future plans. CCP has not plan to change its current plan (we got assurance of that). At the end of the day, a statement is a statement, either we believe what they say (I do, hence why I was furious when there was a hint of a lie), or we don't. If we don't believe what they say then nothing they can *say* can reassure us. And only watching what they do can help. That's a choice.
The limits on aesthetics for vanity items have not been discussed. The art department dictates (as they always have) what is acceptable and not. I think they're a bit too extreme in their adherence to what they consider acceptable, but that's a sidenote to the issue. As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.
"Old Hangar" is not the old hangar, it's similar to the old one in terms of function and performance. Read above for my points on the space->hangar->CQ thing. During CSM 5 we said "don't want people to be forced into incarna". CCP said "what if the performance is equal". We said "we still think it's undesirable, but this is an acceptable compromise". Pick your battles, the integration of flying in space and InCarna is going to happen, we placed the limit of when it is deemed acceptable and not.
----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:41:00 -
[682]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 21:53:47
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna.
Did they explain why we must be forced into Incarna? Or did they explain why pilots must leave their pod every time they dock? I am hoping for an other answer then that this is CCP's way to promote NeX (and I would very much appreciate hearing about it).
Because it makes for a more seamless (hate the marketing word, but it's true) interaction between "flying in space" and "doing stuff based on your character".
I've always said that it would be better to have people dock in their hangar and make them want to join InCarna for its own values, but it makes sense to me that, if performance are equal, not having to go through an additional step makes the 2 more integrated. So if performance is equal, then it's acceptable to me otherwise it's just *****ing "I don't want InCarna". Well, InCarna's here whether we wanted it or not, so if it's there and docking/interacting doesn't take more resources, then it makes sense not to have the intermediary "hangar" step.
The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
Edit: and the reason the statements do not cover every edge-case is because we have to summarize 2 days of hectic discussion about all those cases into a few paragraphs, we feel the statement we made covers the points made by the players and addresses them. And yes, your dissection of every word and wriggle room and grey area and tiny detail that wasn't mentionned in the statement has been discussed and addressed.
Ok.
During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?
Thank You. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Kane Molou
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:42:00 -
[683]
What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
they are no more and no less then the rest of us, except that they bow down and sign NDA's that forbid them from doing their job of keeping US informed.
Again.. if CCP is truely serious about showing us they are going to keep their promises of fixing bugs, releasing more content etc etc etc.. Lift the NDA. Lift the Gag order on the CSM and let us see what they see.. given again they are meant to be our voice..
How can WE have a real voice if WE don't get the same information?
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:43:00 -
[684]
Originally by: AJ Falconi It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
I really like your post. If CCP had half as much common sense about EVE as you do after playing for a few weeks, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If you think of what CCP did as akin to what Tiger Woods did to his wife, you might better understand the player anger. (Many players have been loyal customers of CCP for far longer than Tiger Woods and his wife were a couple.) And when, as you say, CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, couldn't that anger be expected to grow? It certainly didn't help matters that CCP devs post with anonymous alts on forums in an unethical and dishonest effort to influence the debate. Nothing stokes anger more than dishonesty.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:45:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Kane Molou What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
they are no more and no less then the rest of us, except that they bow down and sign NDA's that forbid them from doing their job of keeping US informed.
Again.. if CCP is truely serious about showing us they are going to keep their promises of fixing bugs, releasing more content etc etc etc.. Lift the NDA. Lift the Gag order on the CSM and let us see what they see.. given again they are meant to be our voice..
How can WE have a real voice if WE don't get the same information?
Puppets don't have their own voices, it is all an illusion.
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:45:00 -
[686]
Originally by: GeneralMartok
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: GeneralMartok its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
Hey look, this guy could have gotten a blowjob with what he spend on his e-monocle.
I bought 2 quafe shirts, a monocle, sterling dress shirt, commando pants and precision boots without spending RL money, I did this for your juicy tears and to show support for CCP over the tantrums of the chromosomally challenged
Maybe if the denziens of eve protested in this manner over botting, we'd actually have some progress in that arena
No tears here boy. If it makes your sad little life better by imagining them, go ahead. Your delusions harm no one.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:46:00 -
[687]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
I understand the sentiment and argument, it's one I and several others of the CSM have consistently made since May 2010 (first CSM 5 meeting where we were introduced to InCarna). InCarna should stand on its own merit and not be forced down the throat of unwilling participants. I agree.
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Then why the disingenuous CSM blog? Why dance around the houses and not come straight out and say, "sorry chaps, you don't get what you want, you have no choice"?
I think that's what naffed me off the most and I'm pretty naffed off with what you didn't sort out.
i am too hacked off with this too. you look liek you gave up when they said no, you cant ahve good performance you must have space barbie's and deal with it. the preformance of incarna is horrid. we know this, the csm know this and ccp know this. but on face value it looks like nothing is being done and nothing will be done to sort it out. specificly multiboxing
im sorry by a soon from ccp might as well be a never
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:46:00 -
[688]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: AJ Falconi It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
I really like your post. If CCP had half as much common sense about EVE as you do after playing for a few weeks, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If you think of what CCP did as akin to what Tiger Woods did to his wife, you might better understand the player anger. (Many players have been loyal customers of CCP for far longer than Tiger Woods and his wife were a couple.) And when, as you say, CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, couldn't that anger be expected to grow? It certainly didn't help matters that CCP devs post with anonymous alts on forums in an unethical and dishonest effort to influence the debate. Nothing stokes anger more than dishonesty.
..says the person who trolled, flamed and baited MANY threads disagreeing with him...including trolling this one still. Get out the Preparation H and stop the whining...or move on to another game. What a hypocrite.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:47:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
I understand the sentiment and argument, it's one I and several others of the CSM have consistently made since May 2010 (first CSM 5 meeting where we were introduced to InCarna). InCarna should stand on its own merit and not be forced down the throat of unwilling participants. I agree.
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Then why the disingenuous CSM blog? Why dance around the houses and not come straight out and say, "sorry chaps, you don't get what you want, you have no choice"?
I think that's what naffed me off the most and I'm pretty naffed off with what you didn't sort out.
I don't think the CSM blog is disingenuous in the least in this regard. What we got is a replacement of the wallpaper to something equivalent to the old hangar (we can't get the old hangar back, I forgot the reason, it may have to do with rendering technology they obsoleted, I can request clarification).
My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Integra Arkanheld
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:48:00 -
[690]
Edited by: Integra Arkanheld on 02/07/2011 22:51:21
Now we should forget about misunderstandings and/or mistakes, and concentrate on the game. The time to protest is finished (until something might appear again (and I hope not)).
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Laendra
Universalis Imperium
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:48:00 -
[691]
It's easy to say, that after you have been caught with your hand reaching for the cookie jar, but before you actually took the cookies, that you were never intending to take a cookie, just merely touch or clean the jar. CCP coming out NOW and saying that they never had plans for non-vanity goods in the first place is about as believable as politicians telling us the bull**** they tell us to get elected. -------------------
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Stephanie Rose
Nos Exigo Effercio
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:48:00 -
[692]
Originally by: GeneralMartok
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: GeneralMartok its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
Hey look, this guy could have gotten a blowjob with what he spend on his e-monocle.
I bought 2 quafe shirts, a monocle, sterling dress shirt, commando pants and precision boots without spending RL money, I did this for your juicy tears and to show support for CCP over the tantrums of the chromosomally challenged
Maybe if the denziens of eve protested in this manner over botting, we'd actually have some progress in that arena
Your so right, you didn't spend any real money, just the person who bought the GTCs to make the PLEXes that you bought to buy your AUR, they spent real money.
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Taipan Leviathan
Dark Star Confederation The Ancients.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:48:00 -
[693]
Resubbing.
(not that I unsubbed but you get the point) --------------------------------------------------- THE BIG BANG: First there was nothing, Then it exploded. |
Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:50:00 -
[694]
Originally by: Youli Kepain Edited by: Youli Kepain on 02/07/2011 22:24:35
Originally by: Chrysanthemum Korik
Originally by: Youli Kepain
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
You realize they can make a new plan tomorrow that sells sp, isk and ships in the store for cash and the above statement is still true? What we wanted them to say and is apparently too hard for them to say is to commit as they have previously to not selling non-vanity items in the future. They have not committed to that yet.
Originally by: Dalketh STUPIDEST THING SAID EVER. (Sorry poster but it is)
No it's not, and I'll tell you why. It was shown that the mere possibility of selling non-vanity items released a ****storm and I think CCP understands now that if they should change their plan of not having a non-vanity-item-plan would release the biggest f***king ****hurricane in the history of the internet. So for the forseeable future we are safe from that. If that should change in let's say 1-2 years, unsubbing is always an option.
Thanks... but you manipulated my quote so it appears I am responding to someone I wasn't... for some reason.
I was responding to a person who said:
Thank you! Was that really so hard to say? Now I can resub again and enjoy Internet Spaceships without fear.
The 'without fear' was what I was calling stupid. Please be more careful when you cut/paste/manipulate people's posts.
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San Severina
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:51:00 -
[695]
Not good enough for me sorry.
CCP still sux, the best we can do is something similar to the old hangar at a soonÖ date. The Hilmar email wasn't addressed & the guarantee about MT is not good enough or believable.
i admit probably nothing short of rolling back the patch to pre-incarna would have satisfied me, but I feel my opinion should be voiced here anyway.
Thanks for at least making the effort CCP & CSM but too little too late imo.
My 2 subs stay cancelled
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:52:00 -
[696]
Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 22:56:01
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Ok.
During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?
Thank You.
Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.
From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.
We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).
For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).
I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.
PS: to Renan Ruivo who posts right after me. Immersion is not necessarily a requisite for video game. See chess, see angry bird, see Lemmings (I'm not a lemming :p) ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:52:00 -
[697]
Edited by: Renan Ruivo on 02/07/2011 22:54:12 Oops, posted at the same time as you.. One sec.. ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:55:00 -
[698]
Meissa,
I was new on the day of the Incarna expansion. I had tried the trial a couple years before but didn't stick around.
I kept the CQ on for a couple of days and it was helpful. Immersive? I dunno. Two years ago I felt immersed in my ships. Once I figured out the basics however, it became something I didn't really prefer. I went to the old UI setup and haven't renabled the CQ yet.
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Ok.
During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?
Thank You.
Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.
From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.
We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).
For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).
I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.
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Celedraug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:56:00 -
[699]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.
[/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
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Telion Rethson
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:58:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
I think what several people are saying is that the lore of Eve makes being forced into getting out of your ship every time you dock, for whatever reason, ridiculous. An example:
I buy a cheap item three jumps from where I am. I fly to the relevant station. The one and only reason I am there is to pick up this one item. Can I simply ask for the item to be loaded into my cargo bay, then depart? No. I cannot. I have to separate my pod from my ship, get it to the gantry, drain it of goo, disconnect the umbilicals, open the pod, stumble out, clean the goo from my body, get dressed, THEN order the item loaded into my cargo bay. Once I've done that, I turn right around, get undressed, step back into my pod, close it, connect the umbilicals, refill it with goo, rejoin pod to ship, then depart.
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Atreus Venom
Gallente New Eden Hitmen
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:59:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above.
You may not have read my post above, and that's ok (really, lol). But if you can.. at your discretion..
Here's my input:
- "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for immersion-breaking reason [ie, see-my-post].
I like space ships and i like space dollies. What i don't like, is that they DON'T quite work together to suspend my disbelief. Quite the opposite in fact.
If i didn't cared about immersion while playing a video-game, i wouldn't be playing a video-game in the first place.
yeah to kinda add a little to what he is saying.. for the sole purpose of immersion there shouldnt be a sudden jump out of the ship... when i dock to grab more ammo should i really have to get out of my ship? if i wanted to go and lay down on the bed thats in there that would be great... and you could incorporate sleep in the game too.. like sleeping will increase learning speed by .2%... give us a reason to leave our ships.. instead of forcing us to... that would make alot of players happy º--Atreus--º A New Hope -- like my layout? lol Signature removed. Advertising other games through your signature is not permitted. |
Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 22:59:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.
"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."
We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.
"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...
Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.
More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.'
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Madcow
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 -
[703]
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.
[/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
CCP said before they will wait before implementing it till you can either trade the ship in for new one or add blueprints to the aura market. ______________________ I am just a crazy cow |
Amitious Turkey
Gallente TarNec
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 -
[704]
Originally by: CCCP Supersmug do you often disagree with serial killing but then debate its merits?
I do. It stimulates the...brain. Haunting the forums since '03
Originally by: CCP Navigator We love you all as well <3
Originally by: CCP Navigator We have just updated Dodixie. We care a lot for Gallente.
NAVIGATOR <3 |
DRACOincarnation
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:01:00 -
[705]
Quote: "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
That concludes the topic regarding to the recent fuzz in my humble eyes! Now continue to develop our game CCP, and to the same good job you've done so far (except for maybe unfortunate P/R)! :-)
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Solosky
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:02:00 -
[706]
As I understood - message is "we were communicating wrongly - now we'll promise to communicate better but no t3 frigates, no t3 battleships, no clothing drop from NPCs or LP stores - NOTHING interesting ahead - just pale and poorly designed items in NeX store which make their owners target for stalkers and griefers."
Boring. Subscriptions still cancelled.
P.S. Watch PLEX prices dropping. Probably I'm not only one who doesn't interesting in them.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:03:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
I'll repeat myself.
I like Incarna, I like the idea of walking in stations. I just don't want it every time I dock. You seem to keep forgetting the main sentence in the blog and why I believe it to be disingenuous.
and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
You didn't get us anything, we ended up with no choice as we have now.
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Celedraug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:03:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Madcow
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change.
[/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
CCP said before they will wait before implementing it till you can either trade the ship in for new one or add blueprints to the aura market.
Good to know - thanks
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:04:00 -
[709]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel .........
If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.
For me the immersion breaking aspect is the time and the setting. To get out of the pod requires it be drained, I be washed dried and then change into clothes. Somehow that is all happening in a few seconds with no facilities for washing or dressing.
CCP could come up with a new story to explain whats happening. For example, CCP could say we all got new pods that do the draining, cleaning, drying and clothing automatically in the few seconds between when we see "docking request accepted" and the avatar appears. They could reinforce this by moving the pod up to the balcony and have the avatar standing just at its doors.
But so far CCP has let this issue lay there and fester.
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Velicitia
Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:06:00 -
[710]
Originally by: AJ Falconi
(I can live with PLEX as an alternative to black-market ISK sales. What I can't stand is the idea that buying and selling characters is allowed. How is this not a EULA violation? If I had to start a new character with no skills, so should everyone else.)
It's not so much the toon's skills that are concerning to most people (srsly, you could be given 100m SP, and still lose to a toon who earned their 10m SP), but rather the fact that gold ammo/ships completely eradicate the player market/economy
Originally by: AJ Falconi
As a new player, while I am enjoying the game for now, I do worry about my ability to compete with players who have many more years of skill-points invested, and who may have advantages that I can never get. For example, I hate the idea that there are high-end blueprints that I can never have simply because a limited supply was distributed by lottery long before I started playing. A new character should have every opportunity to succeed that a player who began when EVE first released (8 years ago?).
This is by no means true. You're thinking too much along the "rollercoaster" RPG style of gaming...
On SP -- yes, you might be 30 or 50 or 100 million "short" on another player's overall total, but most of the skill trees have 20ish million SP total. What this means is that you can quickly "catch up" in a particular field.
To illustrate this: I grabbed me a 50k SP newb non-minmatar alt, and set a training plan to get into a rifter. To get into the ship, and have all the certificates was something like 5 or 6 days. to get all of those skills to level 4 was an additional 30 days. so, 30-35 days and you're in the top 80% of rifter pilots (well, toon skills anyway). To get cruisers to the same level was another week or two...
On T2 BPOs -- yes you are correct that you are unable to purchase T2 BPOs from NPCs, but don't let that get you down. With enough ISK, you can buy your own from another player... or with the right skills, you can invent copies. By no means does owning one of these BPOs mean you have an ISK printing machine. =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 -
[711]
Not bad, but I'm a little concerned regarding some of the phraseology used. Keep it simple- you're not being paid by the word & it also helps non-native speakers. "Game breaking" and "grey areas" are two instances that stand out.
I'll see what happens over the next couple of months before making a final decision.
If people re-subbing do so with 1 month payment plans rather than 3/6/12month ones, then CCP will notice. The longer term subs show players' confidence in the game's future, and that is what has taken a major blow recently. ______ Tippia's analysis of NEX/Incarna |
Sandeman Reserve
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 -
[712]
Too late. CCP had the opportunity to keep my business, and they blew it. My accounts have already been cancelled, and they'll stay cancelled.
I'm enjoying Perpetuum Online too much at the moment, so that's where my money's staying - and I daresay there are more than a few others who don't trust CCP enough to switch back too.
I'd encourage all subscribers to think hard about the direction CCP is taking, and consider whether they can really be bothered with another one of these blowouts a few months or a year down the track when CCP realises just what a financial hole it is in and brings in game-changing MT anyway to keep their business afloat.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 -
[713]
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change. [/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
We discussed ships of similar stats to another but with a different model (ie, having a hurricane that has spikes to take a ridiculous example). The answer is that the amount of time it takes for the art department to produce new ship models renders this scenario unlikely. However the "economy" aspect has been made clear in this that any change in paint job/model needs to take in an existing ship as a source as well so as not to disrupt the economy. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:07:00 -
[714]
I don't see the part where CCP says "We will NEVER EVER introduce items beyond vanity ones in EVE Online through the NEX Store", but I see the part where they say "There are no plans, and have been no plans" which basically means: "who knows what the future will bring". I remember when CCP told us that there were no plans for a cash shop... I also see the part where they say "game breaking items or enhancements", well... what about game affecting items or enhancements? AAAAND my favorite part "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time." So... the investment of money (through NEX Store) should give you a FAIR ADVANTAGE?? Define fair advantage!
So... CCP is telling us the exact same thing they told us before the CSM meeting but somehow we feel and think different about it now. We buy it and we'r happy "ship spinnin" is coming back.
I'm so proud of this community, gotto be the smartest bunch of ppl ever :)
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Slightly Green
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:10:00 -
[715]
Edited by: Slightly Green on 02/07/2011 23:10:34 This account is still canceled too. Internet robots vs internet spaceships - robots have just won. http://www.perpetuum-online.com/ - 15 day free trial.
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:11:00 -
[716]
Originally by: Angeliq I don't see the part where CCP says "We will NEVER EVER introduce items beyond vanity ones in EVE Online through the NEX Store", but I see the part where they say "There are no plans, and have been no plans" which basically means: "who knows what the future will bring". I remember when CCP told us that there were no plans for a cash shop... I also see the part where they say "game breaking items or enhancements", well... what about game affecting items or enhancements? AAAAND my favorite part "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time." So... the investment of money (through NEX Store) should give you a FAIR ADVANTAGE?? Define fair advantage!
So... CCP is telling us the exact same thing they told us before the CSM meeting but somehow we feel and think different about it now. We buy it and we'r happy "ship spinnin" is coming back.
I'm so proud of this community, gotto be the smartest bunch of ppl ever :)
If you can't stomach it, then it's perhaps time to leave? If you can't play a game and have it make you happy, then by all means find one that can. You won't be getting the statement you want because, it's one pretty much ANY MMO cannot make. As games age and subscription money fades, then options like this, HOWEVER UNPALATABLE, have to remain open.
I think the message has been sent by the current playerbase that this will NOT be tolerated...they'd be fools not to listen to this.
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RayBacca Kothar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:11:00 -
[717]
I'm pretty good with the statement. However, this part still concerns me:
"The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
Is there anymore on this?
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Doctor Garamond Trebuchet
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 22:56:01
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Ok.
During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?
Thank You.
Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.
From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.
We also argued that forcing people into an avatar they didn't really chose can break immersion (verokhior females for instance).
For that element we argued for the ability to be able to change bloodline would be a great addition. Plans for this are being evaluated (no promises, but it has been voiced).
I may possibly not address the specific immersion you are referring to, since I don't know your background in this regard, but the two above cover the majority in terms of immersion-breaking arguments. If I forgot something and you point it out to me I will answer whether, yes or no, we talked about it and whether we got an answer.
PS: to Renan Ruivo who posts right after me. Immersion is not necessarily a requisite for video game. See chess, see angry bird, see Lemmings (I'm not a lemming :p)
Thank god someone on the CSM gives a frak about the RPer. I think I just died and went to heaven IRL.
I was listening to eve radio last night with the Massively.com editor and Seleene and another CSM and funky bacon and the outright mockery of the RP/Immersion discussion (listen yourself in the podcast, http://eve-radio.com was really bummin' me out. Hot damn I am happy you are on the CSM. Do you tweet in #tweetfleet? - "This is Monacleysmic Incarnage!" Ö - Nath Blazek
CAS 101
Where is my Lab Coat? Monacle??? |
edith prickley
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
I guess you missed the post where CCP said they have no plans for MT whatsoever. Nothing they say has any value. They are spliting hairs in a Bill Clinton esque fasion. What is is?
Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new.
This sounds shifty. Those statements have been repeated dozens of times since they were originally made, and formed the basis of many pages of discussion on the forums. The user community clearly had confidence in them, and they lie at the heart of the current feeling of betrayal. Why wasn't the fact that these commitments were completely empty clarified earlier?
Anyhow, CCP should keep this useful cop-out in mind, I'm sure it will come in handy in the future as well.
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Ispia Jaydrath
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:12:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Kane Molou What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
...
Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.
Hope this helps~~
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:15:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath
Originally by: Kane Molou What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
...
Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.
Hope this helps~~
Sometimes...it hurts...so much. :P
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:15:00 -
[722]
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.
"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."
We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.
"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...
Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.
More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.'
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. But there are fights we will not win. I don't care about InCarna, I didn't ask for InCarna, I didn't want InCarna. This should be clear. I made that stance clear as far back as CSM 3 (check the video of the CCP panel during fanfest 2009 on youtube, during the Q&A I asked exactly that).
Considering that keeping on arguing "I don't want InCarna" is a battle fought (and lost) a while ago, we have to make sure it is not disruptive to what we actually want. And if possible turn it into something we actually can make use of. Considering that we got it, we go with what our reasons for not wanting it in the first place are.
I don't believe I am complacent, misleading or "I know better now shut up here" here. It's not about being right in this instance, it's about being sensible with regards to what one can achieve. Clamoring "delete incarna!" will serve no purpose. Saying "I don't want to see 'my' avatar EVER" serves as little purpose. CCP has decided that they consider InCarna to be a part of Eve, the sensible stance from then on is to make sure it does not disrupt those who wanted nothing to do with it in the first place, and that's what I've been busy doing.
If, in having that stance, I do not represent your view I am kinda sorry, but in my personal opinion that is a pointless one to keep having (though the underlying reasons are still as valid) ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Angeliq
Minmatar Silent Overwatch S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:16:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change. [/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
We discussed ships of similar stats to another but with a different model (ie, having a hurricane that has spikes to take a ridiculous example). The answer is that the amount of time it takes for the art department to produce new ship models renders this scenario unlikely. However the "economy" aspect has been made clear in this that any change in paint job/model needs to take in an existing ship as a source as well so as not to disrupt the economy.
What do you mean SHIPS OF SIMILAR STATS??? Stats as in attributes? The same ship (hull) but with different attributes? A very important aspect for the dev when a player uses Cash Shop "golden items" is that the enemy player MUST NOT KNOW about it, so if CCP makes new exclusive models for NEX Store, "the enemy" will know about them.
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Moon Shadowfall
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:17:00 -
[724]
Totally agree with you Meissa.
:P
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:17:00 -
[725]
Originally by: AJ Falconi
1) Play-To-Win
I applaud CCP's committment never to sell non-vanity items in the NeX. This was the only real deal-breaker for me. I can't see myself playing a even a free game where I'm at a disadvantage if I don't spend real money for in-game items. I certainly would never pay subscription fees for such a game.
(I can live with PLEX as an alternative to black-market ISK sales. What I can't stand is the idea that buying and selling characters is allowed. How is this not a EULA violation? If I had to start a new character with no skills, so should everyone else.)
I'd advise you not to take anything CCP says at face value. But I'd imagine you'll have to learn that lesson for yourself.
I agree that it is absurd to play a subscription-based game that offers in-game advantages for $. EVE is the most expensive subscription-based game on the market, with most paying customers spending (or having spent on their behalf) $30 or more per month. ($75/month in my case.) The protesters think that ought to buy us improving content over time and no microtransactions other than plex (primarily for the reason you cited.) CCP disagrees and is in the process of breaking the game (# of ship fittings you can save, for example) and selling that functionality back to the players. This joint statement doesn't address that.
Your point about character sales is excellent. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed (and I confess that one of my 5 'mains' is 'bought', though I didn't buy him until I'd been playing for a year and a half.) I don't think you put that genie back in the bottle. The other side of the argument is that it's nice to think that after playing for several years that you can cash out and send your 'space hero' off into someone else's hands where he can continue his exploits.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Meeogi
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:18:00 -
[726]
Edited by: Meeogi on 02/07/2011 23:18:53 Satisfied..... thank you C.C.P. Thank you C.S.M
Wax on Wax off |
Stratharn
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:19:00 -
[727]
Edited by: Stratharn on 02/07/2011 23:19:46 I've cancelled and won't be coming back any time soon. Maybe in a year or two, but my account goes dark on Jul 14, and will probably stay that way for quite some time. If CCP had said all this when the questions were being asked, and before I hit that Cancel Subscription button, it might have been a different story.
Also converted to Perpetuum.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:20:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Angeliq
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Celedraug
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models. I don't recall them going ballistic when we discussed that possibility in the past, but the answer has so far be no and I don't expect it to change. [/quote
No sure if we are on the same point here - not player generated skins or models but CCP generated. I was meaning will they sell in the store the same ship but looking different as one we would have build ourselves or brought from another player. This is a vanity item but it impacts the player economy.
We discussed ships of similar stats to another but with a different model (ie, having a hurricane that has spikes to take a ridiculous example). The answer is that the amount of time it takes for the art department to produce new ship models renders this scenario unlikely. However the "economy" aspect has been made clear in this that any change in paint job/model needs to take in an existing ship as a source as well so as not to disrupt the economy.
What do you mean SHIPS OF SIMILAR STATS??? Stats as in attributes? The same ship (hull) but with different attributes? A very important aspect for the dev when a player uses Cash Shop "golden items" is that the enemy player MUST NOT KNOW about it, so if CCP makes new exclusive models for NEX Store, "the enemy" will know about them.
The opposite Angeliq. 2 ships having similar attributes but different models. It is extremely clear we do not want 2 ships having the same model but one being better than the other. That point of view has been made clear, CCP does not plan on introducing those. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Nemo Valkir
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:21:00 -
[729]
Thank you CCP Thank you CSM
...but sweet lord some players players/ forum posters are ****s! We are not all like that, honest! Well done sorting this one out.
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Kane Molou
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:22:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.
Hope this helps~~[/quote
Not really, No.
Because I don't see how them being voted into the CSM makes them any better then we are.. they are NOT better then any other eve player except they get Free trips to Iceland and a fancy title in the forums.
We are expected to believe them based on the information they get, and yet the information they get we aren't allowed to know about.. ok doesn't any one else see the contradiction in that?
We the players... are meant to believe everything is hunky dory based on the opionin of people who are getting free lunches off a company that has lied to us in the past..
We the players are apparently not allowed to look at the information because we are 'lesser' then the C.S.M. And yet we are meant to come to the SAME conclusions as the CSM..
It logically doesn't make sense, and honestly it's kinda like the current situation in Australia where Gillard is trying to ram her Carbon Tax down peoples throats after saying it wasn't going to happen.. only in this case it's CCP, Micro/Macro Transactions and a really screwed up lack of Content in the latest 'expansion' that isn't even complete.
Again.. CCP lift the NDA or Release the same information the csm got to see for ALL your players to see and make their OWN minds up about it.
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Celedraug
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:23:00 -
[731]
Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath
Originally by: Kane Molou What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
...
Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.
No actually we didn't - CCP imposed them on us - allowing us to choose who they were, not if we wanted a CSM to represent us in the first place.
I don't remember getting a vote on if we wanted a CSM to represent us.
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Moria Kethar
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:25:00 -
[732]
CSM: I understand you may be trying to address player concerns, but I find it very frustrating. As I have stated previously (see posts 571, 608), this is not just a simple "Incarna is here, shut up and deal with it" but no-confidence in the direction of the game presently. Particularly given the delayed and contradictory communications - i.e. Hilmar's email and the implications therein that remain ignored.
Trebor - I am not concerned with the pay to win aspect of direct CCP --item-- sales, as that is a oversimplification. The issue is that it would be bypassing the player-generated economy, which is the backbone of Eve - right now, if you want a ship, guns, ammo, ect, someone in Eve had to work for it. THAT is the concern for me when CCP refuses to say No, never. I don't want to invest my money and time further into a product and company that can't promise they aren't going to destroy what I play the game for.
It also leaves the door open for selling game mechanics (boosters, additional fittings, faction standings) - something else I find unacceptable.
I am glad you have found their response acceptable, but I don't. That is my choice - as with any investment gamble, each and every person here has to decide for themselves what the line is. If they find the current risk that their money and time invested might be wasted later to be acceptable.
Meissa - Understand that as stated previously, the refusal of CCP to budge on Incarna only reinforces the notion that they are more concerned with developing features empty of valuable gameplay/advancement as far as Eve is concerned, but will benefit their upcoming intellectual properties. There are much more serious gameplay issues in game that need development attention (as stated previously) then the robotmen in stations - another concerning issue left unaddressed in this joint meeting.
CCP got what it wanted - enough placation that some people will resub for now so they can continue in whatever mysterious direction they desire, an end to the rioting and an excuse to lock the threadnaught. CSM may think it a victory, but I really don't see anything as having changed or gained besides more vague promises of sparkles without any gameplay meat to be invested into Eve.
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Righteous Deeds
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:25:00 -
[733]
Color me cynical, but as I've said, the only reason I can think of to eventually force players in the CQ (which is still obviously the plan) is so that they are more likely to identify with their avatars and thus more likely to buy NEX items. That makes a poor reason, IMO, for going this route. Let players decide forever if they want to disembark. Most will still end up in the station and a fair number of those will go for the bling. I will reserve the right to keep making a case for this.
That said, I am 90% pleased with the settlement and resulting mea culpa. Don't care what bling they sell and for how much in the NEX. Don't mind that Eve funds development on other products. (It has to.) And while I'm not much on a ship spinning, I'm looking forward to the return of a functional substitute for the CQ door for as long as I can get it. (You might want to consider shifting more assets to Eve-content development though, as I do think it's a fair criticism that it's been awhile since more meat was added.)
CSM: Guys, that's much for you efforts here, especially those of you that managed to get out to Iceland. As a working professional/parent too old to have this particular vice, I can only imagine it wasn't easy to excuse yourselves for RL to attend to this.
CCP: Despite my gripes over the last few days, thank you guys for working with the players, paying attention, and having the guts to admit you could have done the communication a little better. Thanks also for your willingness to make adjustments on our behalf, and for committing to a vanity-only NEX. And thanks mostly for a fun game to while away too many hours.
Accounts being reactivated.
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:27:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.
"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."
We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.
"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...
Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.
More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.'
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. But there are fights we will not win. I don't care about InCarna, I didn't ask for InCarna, I didn't want InCarna. This should be clear. I made that stance clear as far back as CSM 3 (check the video of the CCP panel during fanfest 2009 on youtube, during the Q&A I asked exactly that).
Considering that keeping on arguing "I don't want InCarna" is a battle fought (and lost) a while ago, we have to make sure it is not disruptive to what we actually want. And if possible turn it into something we actually can make use of. Considering that we got it, we go with what our reasons for not wanting it in the first place are.
I don't believe I am complacent, misleading or "I know better now shut up here" here. It's not about being right in this instance, it's about being sensible with regards to what one can achieve. Clamoring "delete incarna!" will serve no purpose. Saying "I don't want to see 'my' avatar EVER" serves as little purpose. CCP has decided that they consider InCarna to be a part of Eve, the sensible stance from then on is to make sure it does not disrupt those who wanted nothing to do with it in the first place, and that's what I've been busy doing.
If, in having that stance, I do not represent your view I am kinda sorry, but in my personal opinion that is a pointless one to keep having (though the underlying reasons are still as valid)
I agree with you but I was mainly talking about the tone. Believe it or not I am not some howler monkey with it's head in the sand.
Think of it this way, you say you don't want incarna and for many of the same reasons many of us don't... and yes it is apparent you have made the decision to move on from that 'impossible dream'. But how many years as you said did it take you to get to that place in your thinking? Don't fault others for not being in the same place at the same time as you.
Anyway peace, and that's for being a regular communicator here in the forums. Few of the CSM are.
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Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:29:00 -
[735]
Edited by: Buzzmong on 02/07/2011 23:31:10 A few questions for the CCP staffers or the CSM reading this:
Communications
Why was CSM not informed of the NeX pricing?
Why was the CSM's feedback on Zulu's first blog not taken on board causing the CSM-predicted torrent of offended players?
Dev communications to players: What's happening with regards to getting more info and responses out to the playerbase?
The game and development in general
What're CCP's plans for Eve in the future? We've got Incarna after a long wait, but what's next on the cards?
Gameplay wise: What's being reiterated? Is FW being looked at or are wormholes having more content?
Is the proliferation of Supercaps and the problems they're causing being seriously looked at?
When is the "18 months" finishing so resources get shunted back to full steam EvE development?
Apart from all that, I appreciate the CSM at least going over there and making the players view clear. Shame you couldn't get more compromises or a full proper defined statement about not having non-vanity in the NeX ever.
It's a shame about the hanger view though. Future iteration yes but it's only long term temporary item and isn't Space->Hanger->CQ, ah well. --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
Orpheus Ovid
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:30:00 -
[736]
Thank you CCP and CSM
I applaud your efforts. Personally, I am very excited where this game is going. EVE must adapt or it will go the was SWG. Every company makes mistakes and screws up and instead of retreating or ignoring their customers CCP choose to do something pretty radical. The CSM has no official function. CCP could choose to ignore them, but instead they flew them out to Iceland and sat down and head a deep long discussion about the game. They even had to sign ND contracts.
However, I also must congratulate the player base. No where would you find a more dedicated and devoted fan base. The protests were awesome, and in light of the available information a good response. Except for tools were being jerks.
Eve is an awesome game.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:30:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Because it makes for a more seamless (hate the marketing word, but it's true) interaction between "flying in space" and "doing stuff based on your character".
The problem is that it's not more seamless if you don't want to do something that doesn't require your character exit his or her pod. In that case, it's just an awkward, immersion-breaking distraction. I also have doubts that CQ will ever load as quickly as the old hangar view does, and we'll have to end up settling for performance that is "good enough."
The solution that ought to please everyone is to put in an option that allows the player to choose between the hangar and CQ as the default view when docking. Have this default option set to CQ to start.
CQ is not going to provide a universally "more seamless" or superior overall experience, nor will the hangar view. The best approach therefore would be to leave this decision up to the individual player, who knows his or her own needs and preferences best.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:30:00 -
[738]
Edited by: Smoking Blunts on 02/07/2011 23:32:01
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
Meissa I respect you but you are falling into mittens trap of assuming you know best and you opinion is what matters most.
"Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere."
We aren't resisting for the sake of resisting... we are 'resisting' because we don't want it.
"The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality"...
Part of it, but you forget not wanting it.
More and more you sound like you are saying 'listen to me I am right and you are wrong so shut up.'
I understand and appreciate what you are saying. But there are fights we will not win. I don't care about InCarna, I didn't ask for InCarna, I didn't want InCarna. This should be clear. I made that stance clear as far back as CSM 3 (check the video of the CCP panel during fanfest 2009 on youtube, during the Q&A I asked exactly that).
Considering that keeping on arguing "I don't want InCarna" is a battle fought (and lost) a while ago, we have to make sure it is not disruptive to what we actually want. And if possible turn it into something we actually can make use of. Considering that we got it, we go with what our reasons for not wanting it in the first place are.
I don't believe I am complacent, misleading or "I know better now shut up here" here. It's not about being right in this instance, it's about being sensible with regards to what one can achieve. Clamoring "delete incarna!" will serve no purpose. Saying "I don't want to see 'my' avatar EVER" serves as little purpose. CCP has decided that they consider InCarna to be a part of Eve, the sensible stance from then on is to make sure it does not disrupt those who wanted nothing to do with it in the first place, and that's what I've been busy doing.
If, in having that stance, I do not represent your view I am kinda sorry, but in my personal opinion that is a pointless one to keep having (though the underlying reasons are still as valid)
its having a massive negative impact on almost everyone i know in game. and what you got is.. its still gonna ahve a negative impact, but we can spin ships again. screw spinning ships, if that was the point wow you would have achived the goal.
it wasnt, its a loss of functionality, that in referance to the blog Quote: We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance. While the final details and timelines have not been worked out, ships will once again spin all over New Eden.
has no time scale for being restored and will probibly be worse than before when it does land, if ever.
that really dosnt give me reasons to be happy. you should have just said ' its broke, it will stay broke til if/when ccp can be bothered, and quite possibly wont bother as its gonna be removed anyway'
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Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:32:00 -
[739]
and still there are lot of disappointment, ok we will return to you hangar wow, but only temporary ehm, and that is the way all question answered, when i think about possible non vanity items i feel unmotivated even to log in
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Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:33:00 -
[740]
I'm satisfied. Thank you for finally answering the questions, CCP. Thank you to all of the CSM members for their hard work in getting this settled. Thank you!
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Lusulpher
Gallente Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:33:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Geksz Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:06:10 Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:01:09 Will there be an explanation on WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A PERMANENT HANGAR BAY VEIW (like the old one without Incarna)? And why isn't Incarna optional like CCP promised earlier? (I'm sorry, but the option to have a still picture instead if the hangar is really disappointing, and in early test builds it wasn't even there!!!)
The blog clearly states that CCP is working on implementing a new spinning ship hangar view. OK, good to know, but what was wrong with the old one?
They also deleted all the old assets for the NeX store, and the racial customization options for the Incarna engine, and did not deploy the minigame we could play room-to-room...
They simply don't feel they have to explain any game-altering decisions with the community anymore. And the CSM did not get any promises for actions on a set timeframe. :18months: to fix hybrids and AFs, or Sov payment pricing.
Empty words, I will hold to my 6 month probation. Let them SCRUM out some fixes. Creative Customer Person 7 |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:35:00 -
[742]
Originally by: AJ Falconi 2) Docking
I like the concept of being able to walk around in-station and interact with other pilots outside my ship. But right now, there's no point in loading CQ because it's nothing more than a prison cell.
I also strongly agree with all the players who are saying that the player experience ought to be Space <-> Hangar <-> Walking. I don't understand why CCP is so resistant to this. It's what the players want, it's easy to do, and would be a big PR win. It doesn't have to be hanger *or* CQ" when it can be hangar *and* CQ. Until this happens, I'll be leaving CQ turned off, because most of the time I'm docking only for a very short time.
So, my message to CCP is simple: Make the CQ great, so that players will *want* to disembark. But don't force them into a prison cell every time they dock.
Exactly right. And a source of a great deal of the anger towards CCP not caused by their dishonesty. CCP shouldn't force its players to use features they don't want to use (like the new forums, for instance.)
Originally by: AJ Falconi
3) Performance
I don't have any performance issues with my hardware. It's not top-of-the-line, but it's not ancient either. I especially appreciate being able to span multiple monitors with the UI.
Also, I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who are trying to run multiple clients on low-end PCs. Frankly, the idea of running multiple simultaneous accounts strikes me as a bit "play-to-win" already. I don't see how to prevent it, but asking the UI to be low-end enough to support multiple instances on one low-end PC is asking too much.
CCP has designed the game in a way to encourage people to buy multiple accounts. CCP has conducted marketing campaigns/promotions to encourage people to buy multiple accounts. I would LOVE it if there was a magical way to prevent anyone from having more than one CHARACTER, but that's just not feasible. Given where we are, it is incumbent on CCP to make sure that their junk runs in multibox mode as smoothly as it did before this patch.
Originally by: AJ Falconi
Finally, I also have one issue of my own to raise.
As a new player, while I am enjoying the game for now, I do worry about my ability to compete with players who have many more years of skill-points invested, and who may have advantages that I can never get. For example, I hate the idea that there are high-end blueprints that I can never have simply because a limited supply was distributed by lottery long before I started playing. A new character should have every opportunity to succeed that a player who began when EVE first released (8 years ago?).
Here's where we differ. When I started playing 2.5 years ago, there were toons with 100M skillpoints. I did not worry about my ability to compete, I just started training. Now my 4 original toons are all approaching 60M SP and any 'inability to compete' can be attributed to either my personal lack of gaming skill or my inability to prioritize my skill training. You noobs actually have it easier than I did, as there was no training queue and there were learning skills back then. Also, you seem to contradict yourself when you say 'character sales is a horrible idea' and 'I want to be on an even playing field with older players.' Character sales lets you do that.
And the t2 bpo lottery was a horrible idea, but that's another ship that has sailed. You can buy as many t2 bpo as you can afford.
Hope that helped. Fly safe.
Want to buy a monocle? |
Sorgenbinder
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:37:00 -
[743]
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
One word...
PLEX |
Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:37:00 -
[744]
Apology accepted.
Now, you see what happens when people communicate with each other?
That being said, if CCP goes back on these promises, the rage will be epic.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Elliott Calvadeux
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:38:00 -
[745]
Just want to say thanks to CCP and the CSM for the result. I'm happy with it at least.
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Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:47:00 -
[746]
Originally by: Sorgenbinder "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
One word...
PLEX
ehm no, it does't give you special ability or magical ship with uber stats, it just redistributes ingame resources which in the first place can't be aquired with plex, so there is no advantage over investment of time
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Sorgenbinder
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:58:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Grey Griff
Originally by: Sorgenbinder "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
One word...
PLEX
ehm no, it does't give you special ability or magical ship with uber stats, it just redistributes ingame resources which in the first place can't be aquired with plex, so there is no advantage over investment of time
So spending real-world cash and converting it into in-game money wouldn't give me an advantage...? |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.02 23:59:00 -
[748]
I just really hope CCP fixes the immersion issue with Captain's Quarters. Just remembering that the POD is over there by the catwalk brings the kind of sickness to my stomach that i feel when i remember about a documentary on Discovery Channel that showed a guy who, after being lost in the jungle for 23 days, had to stab his dog (which up until that point had been following him without question) on the back of the head with a machete so that he could eat him....
No.. to be honest.. nothing makes me sick as recalling that documentary.. dammit, i shouldn't have tried to write about it.. now i am depressed.. dammit **** it... ____________
Originally by: CCP Guard Nobody gets to ruin EVE but us!
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:12:00 -
[749]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 03/07/2011 00:22:27
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
None of these really apply to me, although I guess "philosophical reason" comes closest. I care about ship spinning least of all, although I appreciate that you fought to get something your constituency wanted.
I want CQ/WIS. It was never on my top list of things I wanted, but I'm happy to have it (or will be, when it's actually good). The reason I'm happy to have it is because it's an immersion-enhancing addition to the game. This, in fact, is the only thing Incarna has going for it right now, as there doesn't seem to be a ton of gameplay-oriented Incarna content on the horizon.
So it makes absolutely no sense to implement CQ in an unnecessarily immersion-breaking fashion, as it directly subtracts from the only value the expansion adds. It actually runs directly counter to CCP's stated goals with regard to Incarna and EVE. CCP's argument therefore doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny, even if you're sympathetic to their premises (as I am).
So what it boils down to, again, is CCP trying to force a NeX display case on us, and in doing so, they're compromising the quality game experience for paying subscribers. You may feel that on this particular issue, the impact on quality is sufficiently minor that it's not worth fighting for.
But what you'd actually be doing is fighting to hold the line. On one side of the line, CCP allows MT to drive their design and development considerations to a greater degree, sometimes at the expense of the overall EVE experience. On the other side of the line, design is focused on improving the overall experience for paying subscribers (and thus, maintaining and increasing the revenue from active accounts), and MT is a form of supplemental income that is pursued as unobtrusively as possible.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:12:00 -
[750]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vile rat Wish I could be happy with this result but I cannot.
Quote: Game-affecting Virtual Goods: We are convinced that CCP has no plans to introduce any game-affecting virtual goods, only pure vanity items such as clothing and ship skins. We have been repeatedly assured that there are no plans for ægold ammo', ships which have different statistics from existing common hulls, or any other feared ægame destroying' virtual goods or services. We have expressed our deep concern about potential grey areas that the introduction of virtual goods permits, and CCP has made a commitment to discuss any proposals that might fall into these grey areas in detail with CSM at the earliest possible stage.
While this statement is true I fear I must disagree with the overall sense of comfort in the message because I very strongly do NOT agree.
The lack of a clear concise statement declaring that they will never go in this direction is alarming, let me explain why.
Right now there is a roll out of cosmetic microtransactions which by and large the CSM, myself included, had no real issues with. I personally had no issues with it because there was an understanding that this was the far extent of what would be done. Nowhere in these statements is a determination to never cross this line into pay for non cosmetic, just an immediate desire to not pursue this goal. I can not support any MT scheme that would pave the way for even the possibility of going beyond this. I would have been satisfied if they said "we will never do this", you will notice that this statement did not occur.
I respect the fact that CCP has no plans to go beyond cosmetic and I truly feel this sentiment is sincere, but without committing to it my confidence in the future of this MT scheme is in doubt and as such I cannot support it.
Thanks for the honesty!!!!!!
Now Can someone on the CSM or with CCP please define the following statement made by CSM member Meissa Anunthiel in post 335 in this thread:
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
Answer please.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:15:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
How about you share the definition of game breaking and p2w???????
How about you share the definition of game breaking and p2w??? Answer??
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:16:00 -
[752]
I asked it earlier but the thread is long Will the settings for incara/ ships in space be split soon. Was it discussed? Will we beable to set how we disembark our ship ie. Which way we face and where we show up.
Logging off sitting- relog still siting? Was this discussed?
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Rose Makanen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:16:00 -
[753]
Thanks CCP & CSM. \o/
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Kandreath
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:18:00 -
[754]
Edited by: Kandreath on 03/07/2011 00:20:05 OK Finally, some cool heads and outcomes we can start to build on.
CCP deserves a thanks for getting the CSM out for the meeting. I assume they paid for all of them to be there. - I assume this was a significant cost. Well done and thank you.
CSM deserves thanks for being available to fly at short notice and participate in the meeting. Thanks guys - and if you have families; thanks to them too.
For both sides, you just demonstrated it was worth the couple of hours it took me to explore and vote for the CSM members.
I don't 100% believe that "gold ammo" or "pay for standings" was ~never~ on the cards. There was at least enough thought to consider and debate it internally. However I do now trust that it is unlikely they will make it into the NEX. With the CSM consulted on "grey area" items, there is a check on these items and that's good enough for me.
Well done on managing a bad situation to an acceptable conclusion.
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Vanilla Ninja
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:21:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Vanilla Ninja on 03/07/2011 00:24:56 I am happy that something has finally happened but yet very dissapointed that Himlars email was shoved under the rug COMPLETELY by CCP. And why did CCP not state this one line: "Non Vanity MT Items will NEVER exist"? So for now:
"I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what [CCP] do and less of what they say"
PS: increasing the min specs is not solving the problem of performance issues you scrubs.
PPS: Thanks for new turrets and new Maller model, if you'd just released that i would have been a happy raging pirate, now however I'm not. :(
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Horanda
Element 115.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:22:00 -
[756]
Finally finished reading 25 pages of comments (and Trebor's blog), though it was only 17 pages when I started. A word about trust: trust is a 2-way street. I have noticed in RL that those who can be trusted are those who, at least initially, trust. So many players prove themselves untrustworthy in-game, that I can understand why they find it hard to trust CCP and the CSM in these issues.
I have played EVE for over 3 years. It has lasted longer than any other game I have played, on or offline. This is despite the fact that it has destroyed or outgrown 4 video cards and one desktop box.
I will probably NOT play EVE forever. Eventually the company or the other players will wear out my minimal patience and I will move on.
I read the dev-blogs and their related threads, but rarely comment because it takes time away from playing the game, but on this occasion a few things need to be said.
Thank you to those players who have maintained a level of calm intelligence through this ****storm. To those players who have been, and continue to be, ranting and raving over paper tigers, go away. Trebor and Meissa, thank you for your input into this thread, you are included in the calm intelligence comment above.
To those who are concerned that Incarna is not what you expected: 'Life's tough, get used to it.' Being an old guy, with limited income, I don't like spending money unless I can get something that does exactly what I want it to do. This doesn't happen, in computer games or RL gadgets or tools. I have to get what I can afford and apply my brain to work-arounds. If it doesn't live up to my plans, it's not the company's fault, it's mine for expecting more that the company was willing to offer at the time.
CCP is a company, in business. The devs have to do what the bean-counters tell them to do. The fact that the devs are willing to listen to us and work on implementing what we want and suggest does not change that business relationship. The devs have to convince the bean-counters that what we want will increase the profit-margin or it won't happen. I, at least, am confident that they are working on it. There are a lot of things I would like to see in the game that I know will never happen because the profit isn't there.
Now I have to catch up on the page or four of comments that have been posted while I was writing this. Death does not defeat you Unless your clone is substandard |
Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:22:00 -
[757]
It looks like CSM bowed to reality that they had the power to damage EVE more than help it and chose not to hurt it. I think that was responsible of them.
I think the game is broke, the quest for balance is too balancing. Its taken the fun out of the game. Plex, RMT and MT are needed to swing to the fun side of the envelope. The system is too tight without it. I'm sure my views are minority though but I don't play Eve cause I'm like everybody else anyhow.
What I have surprisingly found out in this debacle is that I like more people in EVE than I thought I'll trade CCP you for you guys I guess.
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F'elch
Wall Street Trading
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:22:00 -
[758]
Edited by: F''elch on 03/07/2011 00:22:48 *Da Mitani rolls sleeves up*
Time to gets serious.
Edit:Spelling ******
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Troy LS
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:23:00 -
[759]
Originally by: CCP Zulu Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online.....CCP acknowledges that the reaction following the leaked internal communication could have been handled better. Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so......Statement on behalf of the Council of Stellar Management from The Mittani, Chairman of CSM 6...The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it.
Not good enough. There is no "Sorry" anywhere in there. Stand-by for link...
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The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:25:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: John Zorg Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28 I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.
You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...
A comment from CCP would be appreciated...
JZ
Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but: - you are giving game time to a player that need it to play; - you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX. - you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).
This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game. ----
If your rich an have lots of money, your BUYING an advantage, if your not rich, an don't have money, your not buy anything, but pounding sand. Whether you want to spin it as P2W, or not, it still gives an advantage to people who can afford it. Like someone said on a blog, no one seems to be able to clearly define P2W. Now, this may not be CCP selling you the stuff, it is coming from other players, but it still takes REAL money to make all this work, one way or another.
But what advantage? Do you have an advantage because you have the items OR does the manufacturer have the advantage because he gets your ISK OR does a PLEX buyer have an advantage because he can afford (ISK wise) to play the game for free?
It's a win-win-win scenario.
P2W is the system where you get the items from the MT store for cash and no one else gets anything.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:38:00 -
[761]
Edited by: Di Mulle on 03/07/2011 00:45:52
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The time to complaining "I don't want InCarna" has come and passed, what now matters is the impact for us who care less about the integration between the two.
I still think you're trolling.
I and many others actually really look forward to walking in stations. We simply want to choose when we disembark. Could it be more clear?
I understand the sentiment and argument, it's one I and several others of the CSM have consistently made since May 2010 (first CSM 5 meeting where we were introduced to InCarna). InCarna should stand on its own merit and not be forced down the throat of unwilling participants. I agree.
However I also think CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance. I disagree with that choice but respect the decisions. My condition for them to get their way in this regard is that I have similar performance footprint I had before.
Resisting for the sake of resisting will get us nowhere. The underlying reasons we are resisting are what matters. In this instance they are: performance, and potential loss of functionality.
I can't help myself, but to think CCP - and you - by talking like this are nullifying lots of commitments you just freshly made. Specifically, chestbeating about improving communications.
Maybe your wording is not precise enough, I don't want to sound too offensive, because I have lots of respect for you and CSM in general.
But. "CCP wants integration between the 2 gameplays to be of tantamount importance". Just because.
Note, there is principal difference between this decision, and, say, anomaly nerf. The latter may be excellent, may be horrible, may be somewhere in between - but the intent was clear and explained.
Or it has a reason, after all ? Why this reason was never properly explained, not even speaking about trying to convince ? In an absence of communication we have every right to come with our explanations, lots of them are not good ones.
Like, CCP is so desperate to justify time and resources spent, that they are going into a grand delusion now. If everyone uses it because they have no choice - then it is good after all, right ? Pathetic and displays both CCP and players as idiots. I do not want BOTH of us treated like that.
Or, maybe they hold a grandest christmas gift upon their sleeve - and don't want to spoil the surprise ? Dubious, as all we heard about future Incarna in realistic terms will be anything but grand. Or anytime but soon. And the first hint of that hypothetical gift, surprise surprise, was not so great at all. Most important, it will be :awesome: not when Torfi says so, but when players will. And if they will, there will be no need to force it, opposite, players will jump through the hoops to get it...
Testbed for WOD ? Won't be a big bomb by now, why fear to say that ? (And, sarcasm, when CCP ever tested anything so thoroughly then? whats the rush ?)
Ugliest of all, sole reason for Incarna is to be a show case for underpants. I will not go into details even, much more wise writers already did. I will just add, I find it very weird "sales" tactics, promoting your product with a gun at head. Rather found in places like prisons or concentration camps...
Last one - reason is "just because". I refuse to believe that, because it means we deal with a completely irrational, i.e. madman. Why anyone would want to deal with madman ?
Last note, I always supported an idea that Incarna is good as NPE. But forcing it for everyone - is like keeping Aura telling me how to shoot my millionth rat. Again, no reason then.
Paraphrasing you, the underlying reasons they are resisting are what matters.
And by outright refusing to tell us about reasons makes every word about them understanding need for communications irrelevant at best, cynical lie at worst.
Don't you think that puts us back to square one ?
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Sorgenbinder
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:46:00 -
[762]
Originally by: The Offerer Edited by: The Offerer on 03/07/2011 00:27:01
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
Originally by: The Offerer
Originally by: John Zorg Edited by: John Zorg on 02/07/2011 22:06:28 I am sure that there will be no response to this. But couldn't the GTC(PLEX) system be seen as a "Gold Ammo" system. If I have $1 000,000 and I play EVE Online I am able to purchase all the ISK I want with real money. No time is invested into that.
You say so nicely in your blog and on the youtube video that CCP will _NEVER_ have a pay to win feature in EVE-Online but the GTC(PLEX) system is exactly that...
A comment from CCP would be appreciated...
JZ
Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but: - you are giving game time to a player that need it to play; - you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX. - you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).
This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game. ----
If your rich an have lots of money, your BUYING an advantage, if your not rich, an don't have money, your not buy anything, but pounding sand. Whether you want to spin it as P2W, or not, it still gives an advantage to people who can afford it. Like someone said on a blog, no one seems to be able to clearly define P2W. Now, this may not be CCP selling you the stuff, it is coming from other players, but it still takes REAL money to make all this work, one way or another.
But what advantage? Do you have an advantage because you have the items OR does the manufacturer have the advantage because he gets your ISK OR does a PLEX buyer have an advantage because he can afford (ISK wise) to play the game for free?
It's a win-win-win scenario. It's so cool that it's bigger than bi-winning... it's tri-winning.
Yes, there could be several "winners". And everyone else is a "loser".
If I want to fly, say, a Charon but don't have the ISK to buy the skills, PLEX allow me to buy the skillbooks using real-world cash. If I buy those skillbooks from an NPC source, I am the only winner.
Once I've trained the skills, profligate fool that I am, I have no cash to buy the actual ship. Hey presto, another charge to my credit card and yay! - one sparkly new (well, slightly used) Charon sitting outside my balcony. Winners? Me, the guy who sold me the ship, and possibly the guy that built it. Losers? Anyone and everyone who might be in competition with me.
Ispo facto I have bought an in-game advantage. |
Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:53:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 23:02:58 Edited by: Meissa Anunthiel on 02/07/2011 22:56:01
Originally by: Renan Ruivo
Ok.
During the CSM meeting, have you guys at any point inquired CCP about how immersion breaking the current incarnation of incarna (no pun intended) is?! And sorry if the following question sounds offensive.. but.. Does the CSM even cares about immersion?
Thank You.
Yes. We have made the case that getting out of your pod is, as per the lore, supposed to be a traumatic experience.
From a psychology point of view, CCP is however right that it is easier for a human being to identify with a space dolly than with an egg of metal or a spaceship.
True, but what is easier is not necessarily the better path. Especially in an immersive service model.
Identification in such an environment is (to make a long story short) what enables fast but more shallow behavioral interaction. EVE has grown basically (to make another long story short) because of the divide between people by pixels. It's what lies at the heart of macro scale trends and micro scale events alike. The more identification, the less push and pull for the kind of behaviour which creates those events and trends, and which urges people to create and share stories.
For CCP, that should have been a commercial argument. It may seem subtle, but it is significant, I'd rather have seen CCP taken the angle of "avatar as instrument" as such, and not "avatar as identification".
Come to EVE in China, EXPERT HOUSING, New Eden's Blue Lagoon.
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Justin Cody
Caldari T.A.L.O.N. Company
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:54:00 -
[764]
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Yes, there could be several "winners". And everyone else is a "loser".
If I want to fly, say, a Charon but don't have the ISK to buy the skills, PLEX allow me to buy the skillbooks using real-world cash. If I buy those skillbooks from an NPC source, I am the only winner.
Once I've trained the skills, profligate fool that I am, I have no cash to buy the actual ship. Hey presto, another charge to my credit card and yay! - one sparkly new (well, slightly used) Charon sitting outside my balcony. Winners? Me, the guy who sold me the ship, and possibly the guy that built it. Losers? Anyone and everyone who might be in competition with me.
Ispo facto I have bought an in-game advantage.
The difference is that I cannot manufacture said skill book. AT most I can buy it with that same isk and sell it for a mark up. You obtain no real advantage...except that you literally convert time into money by selling that PLEX. It is an interesting concept, but you don't gain a game breaking advantage any more than does the buyer of the plex gain by playing the game out of your pocket. :-P Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
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Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 00:59:00 -
[765]
Edited by: Tuggboat on 03/07/2011 01:00:30 This is true (edited sorgen), perhaps plex purchases per month should be limited or at least gtcs. Just a thought, it would throttle the imbalance. As things are sitting, I may cancel two accounts and use cash from the savings for plex or AUrum. I am proud of being poor, I want jeans with holes in them and I want a goodwill store. I have a couple extra bucks but something has to give. Between 3 accounts, a gtc here or there, a server and an ISP thats is 90% devoted to EVE :) I could have something tangible. like a small boat, a new motorcycle or something. At this cash level Eve has to compete with real world goods in a real world responsible business manner. A transition to a service economy doesn't come overnight but they must learn how to smooth off the rough edges of their customer experience.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:02:00 -
[766]
Originally by: Feisty Cadavar If this was a product I designed - I'd probably have something like you dock up, and you see from the inside of the ship out to the hangar deck with a camera flying around your ship displaying your current ship ( that you can spin ).
And that's precisely what's wrong with the old hangar: it's not based on the new balcony area where your ship currently floats. So, just putting the old one back, and then have you dock to quarters and find yourself in an entirely different hangar, that's just immersion-breaking on a grotesque level.
Just give 'em some time to come up with a new spinning design.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:04:00 -
[767]
Fair enough, CCP, although why not simply
NO, NO MT BEYOND VANITY ITEMS
I'll renew my subscription soon as I feel like playing again, but for shorter periods until I'm convinced you meant what you said.
Thank yuo and good night.
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Lili Lu
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:04:00 -
[768]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The opposite Angeliq. 2 ships having similar attributes but different models. It is extremely clear we do not want 2 ships having the same model but one being better than the other. That point of view has been made clear, CCP does not plan on introducing those.
Meissa and CSM, I'm still confused as to what you "ok'd" with CCP. It is not just better ships for aurum, it is also any ships for aurum that are problems and would be a breach of their vanity-only promise. ANY nex-acquired ships without the same mineral inputs for those ships through the historic in-game production route are a violation. CCP has already tried to cast the gold scorpions as vanity only, but it is not simply providing a ship skin, which would be nbd.
THE ****ED UP GOLD SCORPION ALREADY CODED INTO NEX WAITING FOR A SWITCH TO BE FLIPPED SO THAT IT APPEARS is a harm to the player market. THey better be fixing the NEX interface to accept mineral input of equal amounts to producing a player built regular scorpion or they will experience a second wave of un-subs that will surely sink the game. So far the MT store has only bilked Monocle Trollewinskis out of $70 each. Not worth going full un-sub yet. However, I will be in that second wave of unsubs if they start conjuring whole gold scorpions for aurum input alone.
The sad thing is that if the company has investors pushing them to get more revenue, or make DUST and WoD faster, or internally some large stakeholder presently running things wishing to cash out, the company could have raised income in a better ways. They might have sold thousands to tens of thousands of $1-$10 monocles etc instead of 52 $70 monocles in the first 40 hours. They could have said hey guys sorry but we're raising our subscription prices $1-$2 per month accross the board, faced a lot of forum flaming over it, but nowhere near the ****-storm of unsubs they have so far.
They've got to stop hiring stupid marketing consultant tossers and start thinking and feeling for themselves about what their customer population wants. P2W and F2P games have shorter lifespans and I would hazzard to guess less profitability anyway. Even if there is more short-term "profitability" in those gaming models it is not a good fit for a long-term company like what CCP has been (since they took on two large game development projects) and what the EVE player base had come to expect. Like many have already said in this thread we are suspending judgment waiting to see what they do not just what they say.
To go to another topic, Incarna is fine imo, as long as they can reduce the heat side effects and recognize that immersion is promoted by not forcing people to de-pod if they are only docking to reload or reship. Hell put in some brief annimation of a container of ammo being craned into the current ship, or the pod craned to a new ship, as long as the loading of the full-body avatar in cq and the wis areas are not mandatory. I look forward to those myself as long as my aging computer does not fry but they've got to realize that not every re-dock would ential and disembark from the pod. That would not promote immersion.
Lastly, I was one of those ***s that was actually interested in the WoD game. That is until all this and learning that it will be MT and P2W (as will DUST which interested me not at all). So, they lost a customer for WoD with all this. The big thing about DUST though is if it is MT it could **** through the backdoor EVE with P2W. Tread carefully CCP, this fight isn't over. |
Teala Te'Jir
Amarr Mr. Benjamin Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:06:00 -
[769]
It seems CCP once again has not made themselves clear enough. So all they need to do is make a one word answer to the question:
Do you "ever" intend to sell non-vanity items(p2win items) in the game of EVE?
Just give the one word answer. A simple word, it is called - "No".
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Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:06:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna.
Did they explain why we must be forced into Incarna? Or did they explain why pilots must leave their pod every time they dock? I am hoping for an other answer then that this is CCP's way to promote NeX (and I would very much appreciate hearing about it).
Clearly the cash-shop is designed to get cash to CCP. To that effect being in an avatar is critical. And for a large portion of the playerbase, being in an avatar for EvE is completely incidental to a majority of their game play, so CCP, sadly imo, has to force it. They want people in avatars shopping and spending real cash.
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:08:00 -
[771]
I think they're playing us with that comment on MTs.
Quote: It is CCP's plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Break it down.
Quote: It is CCP's plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
This doesn't mean anything. All this says is that if game-affecting MTs happen, they won't be sold in the NeX store. That's just not the point is it. The second sentence does exactly the same. It reads "Blah blah blah blah blah in the NeX store."
On top of that, as others have mentioned, it uses unclear wording. "Game-breaking" is something that can be argued. "Non-vanity, game-affecting" is not. They know what clarity is and deliberately side-stepped it.
Look at the CCP writing and the CSM writing in the same blog. The different styles are plain; one writes with a very easy understanding of its readers. The other writes like a press release trying not to say anything completely concrete.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:11:00 -
[772]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/07/2011 01:16:32 6-8 months before news of MT for convenience ( which will be abused into MT for advantage ) leaks out and we have another explosion of rage.
It's somewhat ironic that the only thing the document successfully communicates is that CCP knows they're not very good at communication. Oscillating between no non-vanity MTs and no game breaking MTs in the same document with no definition of what a non game breaking MT is
The CSM went to Iceland knowing what the players needed to hear yet CCP managed to hurf blurf them so that the reality is not only has the faith of many player in CCP not been restored but also CSM 6 has also managed to tarnish itself as well.
From what I've seen many players are far from ready to reinvest themselves in Eve having made a broken their emotional attachment to the game over the last couple of weeks.
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Ispia Jaydrath
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:14:00 -
[773]
Originally by: Kane Molou
Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath
Actually it's because we voted for them to represent us.
Hope this helps~~
Not really, No.
Because I don't see how them being voted into the CSM makes them any better then we are.. they are NOT better then any other eve player except they get Free trips to Iceland and a fancy title in the forums.
Okay you are really bad at nesting quotes.
They are better because we said they are better. We got to choose, out of all the players in eve, which ones we trusted to go to iceland and talk to CCP. Those players became the CSM. If you voted for someone who you don't trust, that's your malfunction.
Quote: We are expected to believe them based on the information they get, and yet the information they get we aren't allowed to know about.. ok doesn't any one else see the contradiction in that?
We the players... are meant to believe everything is hunky dory based on the opionin of people who are getting free lunches off a company that has lied to us in the past..
We the players are apparently not allowed to look at the information because we are 'lesser' then the C.S.M. And yet we are meant to come to the SAME conclusions as the CSM..
It logically doesn't make sense, and honestly it's kinda like the current situation in Australia where Gillard is trying to ram her Carbon Tax down peoples throats after saying it wasn't going to happen.. only in this case it's CCP, Micro/Macro Transactions and a really screwed up lack of Content in the latest 'expansion' that isn't even complete.
Again.. CCP lift the NDA or Release the same information the csm got to see for ALL your players to see and make their OWN minds up about it.
This sperging about NDA is ridiculous. To take yourself seriously, you would have to somehow not understand that for a company to publish its' development roadmap and internal affairs would be really dumb and will never happen.
By the way, the lulzy weighted phrasing and rhetorical questions lose their intended effect when you go off the rails and start talking about real world politics. It tells readers that you're the sort of person who posts about real world politics on the internet in their spare time.
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Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:20:00 -
[774]
It really is and has been easy enough to buy an advantage with plex, there is no advantage to CCP NOT exploring vanity items exclusively, I don't see a motive at this time or 6 months from now, If the game dwindled and volume dropped so would their expenses and headaches. :)
Hmm maybe that will become the motivation.
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Sorgenbinder
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:20:00 -
[775]
Originally by: Justin Cody
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Yes, there could be several "winners". And everyone else is a "loser".
If I want to fly, say, a Charon but don't have the ISK to buy the skills, PLEX allow me to buy the skillbooks using real-world cash. If I buy those skillbooks from an NPC source, I am the only winner.
Once I've trained the skills, profligate fool that I am, I have no cash to buy the actual ship. Hey presto, another charge to my credit card and yay! - one sparkly new (well, slightly used) Charon sitting outside my balcony. Winners? Me, the guy who sold me the ship, and possibly the guy that built it. Losers? Anyone and everyone who might be in competition with me.
Ispo facto I have bought an in-game advantage.
The difference is that I cannot manufacture said skill book. AT most I can buy it with that same isk and sell it for a mark up. You obtain no real advantage...except that you literally convert time into money by selling that PLEX. It is an interesting concept, but you don't gain a game breaking advantage any more than does the buyer of the plex gain by playing the game out of your pocket. :-P
I wasn't talking about a game-breaking advantage, just an advantage. I wonder how many devoted PvPers buy replacement ships and modules using PLEX rather than by slogging away to raise the ISK in-game.
Which brings me to another related topic - the issue of all these people cracking on about EVE becoming an immersive experience. How immersive is it to buy advancement (as opposed to the contentious term advantage) using $ and ú? Is this game actually about ships in space, or does it have ambitions to become an alternative reality? If the latter, what place is there for real-world cash transactions aside from a monthly subscription to maintain the game environment? It certainly seems to me that Alternative Reality is the path CCP are treading.
I recognise that I'm a hard-liner on this subject, but to my way of thinking PLEX are simply a pragmatic means by which CCP can beat the ISK farmers at their own game, and any player who converts PLEX into ISK is breaking the spirit of the immersive game experience. |
Innominate
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:22:00 -
[776]
And we're right back where we started. All that has been addressed is the tinfoil hat speculation that CCP already had immediate plans for gold ammo.
The player base asked a simple question that needs only a one word answer. Instead we get a lot of weasel words and equivocation.
Quote:
It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
This is meaningless because there is no commitment. CCP could decide implement gold-ammo in the NeX store tomorrow without contradicting themselves. It also says nothing about aurum use outside of the NeX store, such as(to contrive an example) trading aurum to an agent for faction standings. And then it qualifies the whole thing by referring only to "game breaking items or enhancements".
Lots of words that say nothing.
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Tuggboat
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:26:00 -
[777]
The advantage of a PLEX is similar to getting a business loan but like a business loan, if everyone else is using them, the under-capitalized player gets edged out. PLEX like loans help you adjust to changing game conditions brought on by nerfs and expansions from CCP's side.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:29:00 -
[778]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
How about you make sure the actual player base knows what BOTH sides consider game breaking or P2W????
Answer.... only like the 38th time I have asked.....
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Dimitryy
Gallente Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:30:00 -
[779]
I'm happy with this response, looks pretty legit. ------------------------------------------
Jack Blackstone > Dimitryy I hope you die. |
Muchos Besitos
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:34:00 -
[780]
So... I'm eagerly awaiting how CCP will justify $60 for a monocle... or simply the fact that we will be purchasing these vanity goods at far greater prices than we all ever imagined. Whether it's a handcrafted one of a kind $1000 pair of jeans, or a $30 pair at Wal-mart... it's not the same when transferred in-game. Since we all know you can duplicate and process unlimited virtual items compared to real world items. So, please don't try to throw some lame $1000 pair of Japanese jeans example at us.
These goods should range from $1 to $10 max. Anything else is a joke.
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Leon Razor
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:37:00 -
[781]
Glad to see things have calmed down, EVE is still breathing, and CCP is on speaking terms. It's going to take work to rebuild trust with the player base, but these are the needed steps. Looking forward to the minutes and upcoming dev blogs.
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Naradius
DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:38:00 -
[782]
I'm pretty happy with the response, concerning the issues that where addressed, but many things still have not been addressed, namely - half finished features and bugs that are ignored for years at a time (FW, 0.0 Sov, etc). For me it is these things that take priority over the NEX store, and I just wished that CCP and the CSM thought they were important enough to spend time to work out a roadmap for fixing
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:39:00 -
[783]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
How about you make sure the actual player base knows what BOTH sides consider game breaking or P2W????
Answer.... only like the 38th time I have asked.....
Needs answered.....
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Sorgenbinder
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:39:00 -
[784]
Originally by: Muchos Besitos So... I'm eagerly awaiting how CCP will justify $60 for a monocle... or simply the fact that we will be purchasing these vanity goods at far greater prices than we all ever imagined. Whether it's a handcrafted one of a kind $1000 pair of jeans, or a $30 pair at Wal-mart... it's not the same when transferred in-game. Since we all know you can duplicate and process unlimited virtual items compared to real world items. So, please don't try to throw some lame $1000 pair of Japanese jeans example at us.
These goods should range from $1 to $10 max. Anything else is a joke.
This.
ú5 for a paint job on one of my (larger) ships, and you can count me in. More than that, and I'm using the money to buy drinks at the pub. |
Venko Trenulo
Spelunkers
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:42:00 -
[785]
Originally by: Muchos Besitos So... I'm eagerly awaiting how CCP will justify $60 for a monocle... <snip> These goods should range from $1 to $10 max. Anything else is a joke.
It's only a joke if people don't buy it. If they make money off it, it's not funny.
Consider the kid with a lemonade stand who's selling it for $100 a cup. He only needs to find one customer, and he's got the week's profits covered. And he just might.
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Sorgenbinder
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:44:00 -
[786]
Originally by: Venko Trenulo
Originally by: Muchos Besitos So... I'm eagerly awaiting how CCP will justify $60 for a monocle... <snip> These goods should range from $1 to $10 max. Anything else is a joke.
It's only a joke if people don't buy it. If they make money off it, it's not funny.
Consider the kid with a lemonade stand who's selling it for $100 a cup. He only needs to find one customer, and he's got the week's profits covered. And he just might.
Perhaps CCP actually WANT a player base of 1000 mugs, instead of the 50,000 smartarses they currently have...?
(btw I number myself amongst the smartarses...) |
Xyzibit
Caldari New-Roots
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 01:47:00 -
[787]
thank you a lot... you got me back into the game! please dont do such stuff again... meh and next time save us the hard work of range with a simple and short "no" like 5 days ahead
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King sorrow
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Posted - 2011.07.03 01:54:00 -
[788]
thank god this issue was fixed i was really going to leave eve and not come back, and after i just spent 3000 on building my brand new pc i really wanted to use it playing mostly eve. This makes me very happy. I am also happy to hear they are going to bring back the ship spin feature when u dock, not that i dont like the CQ but when doing pvp and need to do a refit and get back in the fight loading the captain quarters was not very fast. thank u ccp
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:02:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Slaghead I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.
IMHO one of the takeaways of this crisis and of the summit is that CCP has to run a lot more stuff by the CSM. Pay2Win is very hard to nail down in a legalistic way, but everyone "knows it when they see it". Alas, when you get into the grey areas, reasonable people can come up with very different opinions.
This means that getting an outside view from the community (via the CSM) is just smart business.
Originally by: Heavenly Blues How much is CCP paying you? Or is that part of the NDA?
We get one account free for a year, plane tickets, hotel, and food&drinks. Everything else, including all travel incidentals, comes out of our own pockets.
Originally by: Moria Kethar Trebor - I am not concerned with the pay to win aspect of direct CCP --item-- sales, as that is a oversimplification. The issue is that it would be bypassing the player-generated economy, which is the backbone of Eve - right now, if you want a ship, guns, ammo, ect, someone in Eve had to work for it. THAT is the concern for me when CCP refuses to say No, never.
During one of the dinners, a CCP dev made exactly this point -- that if it was game-affecting and disconnected from the player economy, then P2W alarm bells should go off.
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Chandler Urandom
Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:10:00 -
[790]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
I am willing to bet all my RL ISK that CCP would have saved a lot of money, a lot of trouble and a lot of time if they would have uttered these words two weeks ago, and avoided this ****storm. I will also ask this: Did you think this was part of my post? |
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Vixxen Sparkledust
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:11:00 -
[791]
It's interesting to see the two responses. I get the feeling that the CSM council leans heavily to the veteran player view, which is understandable since they're so well established and savvy compared to new players. Even though it's unpopular, I'm one of those players that came to Eve to see Incarna.
The one thing I'm a bit sad about is the hardline nixxing of convenience items, which I might have liked on special occasions, just for kicks (a universe with no blueprints for chocolate or furniture is just mizz). C'est la vie I suppose. On the other hand, I agree with the stance of not having uber ships or ammo in the store. I suspect that there was never actually any danger of this happening, though there was plenty of fear and hysteria. The rumour about the Exchange selling a ship with its skin was conceived purely as a stopgap measure until the ship skin mechanism worked properly. Not sure where that rumour came from tho'.
In terms of the leaks from CCP - those are pretty out of line from whoever did them. The company shouldn't tolerate that kind of behaviour.
Regarding the community wanting the scoop about the game's development plans - surely that's not prudent. It could tip off competitors in the MMO industry, and possibly result in CCP's innovative ideas being stolen before CCP has time to implement(or patent) them. In all kinds of industries, and even in your nullsec wars - loose lips can sink ships! :p
I'm so jealous, they got to go to Iceland!!!!
Vixx :PPP
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Muchos Besitos
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:13:00 -
[792]
Originally by: Venko Trenulo
Originally by: Muchos Besitos So... I'm eagerly awaiting how CCP will justify $60 for a monocle... <snip> These goods should range from $1 to $10 max. Anything else is a joke.
It's only a joke if people don't buy it. If they make money off it, it's not funny.
Consider the kid with a lemonade stand who's selling it for $100 a cup. He only needs to find one customer, and he's got the week's profits covered. And he just might.
Or, consider the kid who opens a lemonade stand that gathers 100s of customers and gains interest of more valuable consumers by having a sensible priced product and more of his product out there advertising it to more consumers. Not only is he making happy consumers, he also is seen as a respectable business.... and as we all have seen, CCP lost a lot of respect already.
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rantuket
Caldari SPORADIC MOVEMENT Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:13:00 -
[793]
I have been waiting with bated breathe on the results from this only to be left a little shocked. Why it took so long to say "nope, no plans on doing that at all" took so long is beyond me.
But for all the recent hubub about the nex store and the way CCP is taking EVE - this while incident - was a wake up call for me and many others. I personally dont give a **** about MT, but I do care about EVE and for now it seems like that game is on hold until incarna is fully released over the next few updates.
CCP, you wont have my subs back until you change course and go back to fixing your spaceship game.
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Takseen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:20:00 -
[794]
Good things -CCP seem appropriately apologetic about how badly they screwed up the Incarna launch and handled the poor feedback -They're planning to return the old station view and ship spinning, and work on reducing the minimum system requirements -A confirmation that they've no plans for game altering items sold for real money, other than PLEX of course
Bad things -I was hoping for more details on when we'd be seeing decent new spaceship content for Eve. Particularly what's due in the winter expansion -No real acknowledgement of the people who are annoyed by the lack of work being done on spaceship content. Either new features or fixing or adding to existing ones.
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T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:22:00 -
[795]
Originally by: "CCP" It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Please Define that Vanity Items do not give any enhancements in game, at all.
Its quite obvious to everyone that the definition of "Game breaking items or enhancements" is going to mean different things to each player and CCP management. Why not make it clearer that there will be no items sold on the Nex Exchange (or on another market) that will effect any statitics of any ingame item or character.
Saying all that, I'm sure everyone on both sides are sick of the whole debacle and just wants to move along, so this is a good step forward.
Thanks to the CSM for flying on such short notice to represent us and to CCP for listening.
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Kile Kitmoore
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:28:00 -
[796]
Edited by: Kile Kitmoore on 03/07/2011 02:29:19 Thanks to both CCP and CSM for clearing the air. I really do appreciate the effort both parties put forward to make this meeting happen. I sincerely hope we can get back to enjoying the game and not have to keep looking over our shoulders for the next CPP scandal.
I am counting on CCP's promise to return the ship hanger, so please don't leave us hanging for a year.
One last thing, huge THANKS to every protester! I don't care if you canceled, forum trolled, pod casted or shot statues you had a big impact on the future direction of this game, dare I even say saved it.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:29:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Slaghead I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.
IMHO one of the takeaways of this crisis and of the summit is that CCP has to run a lot more stuff by the CSM. Pay2Win is very hard to nail down in a legalistic way, but everyone "knows it when they see it". Alas, when you get into the grey areas, reasonable people can come up with very different opinions.
This means that getting an outside view from the community (via the CSM) is just smart business.
Originally by: Heavenly Blues How much is CCP paying you? Or is that part of the NDA?
We get one account free for a year, plane tickets, hotel, and food&drinks. Everything else, including all travel incidentals, comes out of our own pockets.
Originally by: Moria Kethar Trebor - I am not concerned with the pay to win aspect of direct CCP --item-- sales, as that is a oversimplification. The issue is that it would be bypassing the player-generated economy, which is the backbone of Eve - right now, if you want a ship, guns, ammo, ect, someone in Eve had to work for it. THAT is the concern for me when CCP refuses to say No, never.
During one of the dinners, a CCP dev made exactly this point -- that if it was game-affecting and disconnected from the player economy, then P2W alarm bells should go off.
Which specific CCP dev said this? And why wasn't there a commitment to no future "non-vanity" MTs?
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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Rai Fulminata
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:34:00 -
[798]
Why can't i believe them?
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Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:36:00 -
[799]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
You missed one, and the one reason why I hate Incarna in it's current implementation - "I don't want to be forced into Incarna for immersion reasons" If you dock up to pick something up (like ammo), to complete or pick up a mission or simply, if you are in a fleet, waiting for the FC's command to all undock and engage... then why the hell would you be outside your ship... especialy the last example... You don't want to be standing on your balcony and first at the order to undock, start by having to get into your ship. Seriously.
For 8 years the backstory of EVE has been told us that getting out of the pod was a rather nasty experience for the pilot... Just because making Incarna the only way to dock bechause that was a convenient solution conserning development (and that having more players looking at their avatars would propably get more players to buy clothes), doesn't mean they should turn on their lore... That is sacred territory.
If I dock up to pick up missiles and see my character on the hangar balcony, my first thought would always be "What the hell did you get out of the ship for???". It makes no sense whatsoever and I would like CCP to give a blody good reasoning for why it is changed into the way it is from a storyline standpoint (and an explenation that doesn't include they want people to buy more sh*t from the NeX store or that they just want people to use incarna because CCP have done a lot of work creating it).
Now don't get me wrong. I've never been opposed to Incarna, I've wanted it ever since I first heard about it (walking in stations) in 2007. What I'm opposed to is the implementation.
I don't nessecarily want the exact old hangars back, but I want an initail view that suggests I'm still in my ship. I think CCP forcing people into Incarna and thus leaving the ship whenever they dock is a wrong move and that they should rather put some creative heads together to make up incentives for people to want to leave their ships (like ability to talk with agents within x number of jumps away and accept their missions, and not be limited to the agents in the station like when you are in your ship).
If you had a reason to "want" to leave the ship, cause it gives you advantages to staying in the shio, I think a lot more people would be happy about Incarna. Also, with a solution where you had to manualy go ti Incarna, there is nothing preventing a checkbox in the game menu, where you chose if you want to dock directly to Captains Quarters or not.
Unless CCP gives a good explenation on why leving the ship/pod all the time is a good idea, then I will not drop this subject. Or turning things around a bit... If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether.... ___________________________________________ Incarna made me into a forum whiner :'( |
Kile Kitmoore
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:37:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Rai Fulminata Why can't i believe them?
Don't blame you, every one is going to have to make that choice. If it's to soon then take a break and watch the situation from a far until you feel comfortable again, then return.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:42:00 -
[801]
Reactivated 2 accounts after reading the blog and watching the video.
I am pleased with the result of MT issue and approve the announced policies.
I also want to thank you for adressing the Incarna hangar performance issues and looking forward to solutions returning (or opting) them to pre-incarna level. Specially when client is minimized. This was the only major technical drawback of Incarna - for me at least.
Thank you to CSM and CCP for doing all the work involved.
--- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change |
Braondra
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:50:00 -
[802]
The game itself is eh. And this put it over the edge. Sorry, but the mindset in an office wont change over some temp reps coming in and getting 3 stressful days in Iceland. My sub is still ending late this month.
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Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:50:00 -
[803]
Edited by: Kerrisone on 03/07/2011 02:51:32
Originally by: Pierced Brosmen
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
You missed one, and the one reason why I hate Incarna in it's current implementation - "I don't want to be forced into Incarna for immersion reasons" If you dock up to pick something up (like ammo), to complete or pick up a mission or simply, if you are in a fleet, waiting for the FC's command to all undock and engage... then why the hell would you be outside your ship... especialy the last example... You don't want to be standing on your balcony and first at the order to undock, start by having to get into your ship. Seriously.
For 8 years the backstory of EVE has been told us that getting out of the pod was a rather nasty experience for the pilot... Just because making Incarna the only way to dock bechause that was a convenient solution conserning development (and that having more players looking at their avatars would propably get more players to buy clothes), doesn't mean they should turn on their lore... That is sacred territory.
If I dock up to pick up missiles and see my character on the hangar balcony, my first thought would always be "What the hell did you get out of the ship for???". It makes no sense whatsoever and I would like CCP to give a blody good reasoning for why it is changed into the way it is from a storyline standpoint (and an explenation that doesn't include they want people to buy more sh*t from the NeX store or that they just want people to use incarna because CCP have done a lot of work creating it).
Now don't get me wrong. I've never been opposed to Incarna, I've wanted it ever since I first heard about it (walking in stations) in 2007. What I'm opposed to is the implementation.
I don't nessecarily want the exact old hangars back, but I want an initail view that suggests I'm still in my ship. I think CCP forcing people into Incarna and thus leaving the ship whenever they dock is a wrong move and that they should rather put some creative heads together to make up incentives for people to want to leave their ships (like ability to talk with agents within x number of jumps away and accept their missions, and not be limited to the agents in the station like when you are in your ship).
If you had a reason to "want" to leave the ship, cause it gives you advantages to staying in the shio, I think a lot more people would be happy about Incarna. Also, with a solution where you had to manualy go ti Incarna, there is nothing preventing a checkbox in the game menu, where you chose if you want to dock directly to Captains Quarters or not.
Unless CCP gives a good explenation on why leving the ship/pod all the time is a good idea, then I will not drop this subject. Or turning things around a bit... If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether....
No, only to a few people like you it is 'sacred' to CCP making more money is sacred, like the Cash Cow Eve is.
I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Haunting Widow
Wormhole Engineers
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Posted - 2011.07.03 02:51:00 -
[804]
Well I'm extremely relieved by the results. I can continue to play eve without fearing noobs with heavy wallets.
I Do wish you guys had been able to just answer the yellow question in the first place, it makes me paranoid that you didn't.. but you have me back.. for now :P
<I HAZ MINE I's ON U>
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Cang Zar
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 02:51:00 -
[805]
Edited by: Cang Zar on 03/07/2011 02:53:08 So, this is the thread where we all start complaining about every little thing that annoy us and threaten to UNSUB, unless it's fixed IMMEDIATLY!!!! Great, here we go.
First off, good CSM post and good CCP post!
Second, jesus christ people. Does anyone else know a mmo/game company that actually would go to the lengths of listening to the players and their opinions that CCP do? There is nowhere else this is done. It's literally unpresedented, that a game company actually listens to the players - Let alone establishes a real and 'democratically elected' player council, that has communications with the actual game developers to this extent. Imagine WoW/WAR/Rift/Aion/SW:Tor/Anyone else doing that? Hell no. CCP does this and while we may or may not agree with their decisions, I have no doubt that they take their players seriously - although I'm not sure the majority of players are ready for it, or even understands it (or the extent of it).
Third, Mittani, that god damn beard has to go. What the hell is that? Were you visited by the furry fizz fairy in your sleep? Did a piece of muff got stuck during some sort of wax treatment? Get a full beard or get rid of that thing, it's ridiculous.
Fourth, about CCP Zulu. I'm not sure the playerbase in general comprehends just how lucky we are to have that guy as the "boss". That EVE actually has a guy in charge who gives a damn about the game. It could be so, so much worse. A competent guy, who knows the direction of the game, and actually cares what the players think? My god, have anyone ever seen/heard senior/lead producers from other games? I urge you to look up the statements from senior producers of other games, just to see what kinds of ******ed, indifferent, smug-faced, corporate tools have that same position in other games.
Anyway, I +subbed over 9000 accounts, just to make sure that CCP is good to go. I think everyone else should too. EVE is like the one mmo left, that's actually decent. Let's try to make sure they have a good one.
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T'amber Anomandari Demaleon
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:03:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Cang Zar
Third, Mittani, that god damn beard has to go. What the hell is that? Were you visited by the furry fizz fairy in your sleep? Did a piece of muff got stuck during some sort of wax treatment? Get a full beard or get rid of that thing, it's ridiculous.
I think hes kinda cute.
Microtransactions? Click here and vote Yes, No or Vanity only
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Telion Rethson
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:21:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Kerrisone I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.
Well, without addressing the problems with the various things you've proposed to 'solve' this problem, the underlying point is that CCP are apparently seemingly so focused on trying to make Incarna gameplay 'seamless' with existing Eve gameplay, they've completely overlooked that existing lore simply doesn't tie in with the way they've implemented it, so, for many Eve players, that is simply not possible until they address this - and the simplest and most straightforward way of addressing this is to make it so that you do not have to decant from your pod every time you dock, instead of trying to invent some contrived reason why all the existing lore is wrong, basically.
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Darkside007
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:26:00 -
[808]
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
When President Bush was planning on invading Iraq, his response when asked was "There are no plans on my desk". Which was true - the plans were kept away from the final review/signature stage to avoid answering "yes". Once the plan was ready, it was implentmented. It wasn't allowed to sit idle to avoid lying to the press.
"There are no plans" isn't "We will not". It's "We would like to in the future."
"The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle"
Including "Under NDA" tells me that the CSM cannot contradict anything CCP, even if it's BS. =\
"They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
That's something, I guess. =P |
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 03:31:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Slaghead I appreciate the CSM's coming in here to supplement the blog messages. Is there any indication that CCP will keep at least you guys informed on upcoming changes to their 'plans'? I'd really hate to go through this again in another year when they decide to launch their non-vanity MT plan.
IMHO one of the takeaways of this crisis and of the summit is that CCP has to run a lot more stuff by the CSM. Pay2Win is very hard to nail down in a legalistic way, but everyone "knows it when they see it". Alas, when you get into the grey areas, reasonable people can come up with very different opinions.
You say that, but it sounds like bull****.
In other words; selling non-vanity items directly to players for PLEX/AUR/ISK or otherwise. Other than regular seeded T1 BPO's (like what has happened for the past 8 years).
It's not some kind of science to see how this works. You've been lawyered, my dear CSM, plain and simply lured into spinning anything other than your ship. GTFO.
Donations accepted: 1BpQEYT7aSUNM863BV67FPxyv1cpxr74uu |
Boaz Netopalis
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:44:00 -
[810]
Much better worded than the prior 2 blogs, at least, but I'm still out. I wasn't really logging in much anyway so the whole dealie with the NEX store and the possibility of "gold ammo" didn't bug me. No -- I'm out due to Zulu's "rageblog" followed by Hilmar's email. The complete disregard for the players of the game in those 2 things are why I no longer wish to support CCP. TBH, in my case, there's nothing that could be said nor any apology that could be made that would reverse that for me, so while I can appreciate the attempt at conciliation it's not going to bring me back either.
I have enjoyed my time in EVE, so for those staying and re-subbing: Fly safe, and I wish you well.
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Zakota Vertidei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:45:00 -
[811]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
You are taking things out of context. There are no plans for MT in relation to paying for SP.
Stop it. They are doing what they need to do.
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:50:00 -
[812]
Originally by: Telion Rethson
Originally by: Kerrisone I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.
Well, without addressing the problems with the various things you've proposed to 'solve' this problem, the underlying point is that CCP are apparently seemingly so focused on trying to make Incarna gameplay 'seamless' with existing Eve gameplay, they've completely overlooked that existing lore simply doesn't tie in with the way they've implemented it, so, for many Eve players, that is simply not possible until they address this - and the simplest and most straightforward way of addressing this is to make it so that you do not have to decant from your pod every time you dock, instead of trying to invent some contrived reason why all the existing lore is wrong, basically.
This.
I'm not even buying the "gotta decant to generate NeX sales" line of BS. I can access the NeX store without loading the CQ, and that store should be filled with ship painting and other vanity crap that has nothing to do with WiS clothing. Gawd, the more I think about this, the more jaded I get. Some may think it a small issue in the scheme of things, but if something like this can be so destructive of the lore of EVE, then what's next? If I'm playing a game with a context and story that shifts based upon stupid marketing decisions, then how am I supposed to understand the universe that I'm in? If the story of EVE is at the whim of bean counters, I might as well go play Angry Birds.
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Dark Reignz
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:59:00 -
[813]
You guys have missed a crucial point here and that is:
CCP have yet to clarify there intentions as to which items acutally do fall under "Vanity Items".
Personally for me and no doubt alot of others i'm pretty gutted it will remain vanity only, becuase there are certain items I would have bought, stopping short of buying gold ships and more skill points. So I feel let down.
I reakon its the PRO MT side of the communities turn to cause uproar, whine and moan about this. Mass protest and fake-quit as we were not respresented at that meeting.......
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:59:00 -
[814]
I would like to thank CCP and the CSM for their efforts.
I know all will not be pleased but to be fair this is far better than the SWG community ever got from SOE in the days after NGE deployment.
We know that there is a press conference on Tuesday where members of the media are invited, and also there is a fansite conference. So if you got questions not answered get in touch with them (eve-radio, massively, eurogamer, PC Gamer etc)
I appreciate the CSM trying to clarify as much as they can.
I've read a promise that we'll see some amazing stuff for space this winter, well it'll be about time its been 2 years since any serious development on the space side of the game. I think this is the area that most needs improvement, folks aren't feeling like they are getting their moneys worth and that was the real cause of the blow ups the last 2 weeks.
Anyway it is good to see many satisfied.
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Davon Kastire
Caldari Hit it n' Quit it
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Posted - 2011.07.03 03:59:00 -
[815]
What I liked:
1. No Pay 2 Win
2. Future return of ship spinning
3. CSM reactions to the following - how NEX was rolled out, The "Greed is Good" leak, CCP Zulu's "episode", Hilmar's E-mail leak.
What I didn't like:
1. CCP not admitting to lying about micro-transactions. "To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." |
Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:00:00 -
[816]
Seems pretty clear-cut to me. No "gold ammo". Yay!
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:00:00 -
[817]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 03/07/2011 04:03:00 Where is Hilmar's committment?
Not worth the paper it's written on I'm sorry to say.
edit: Actually, this is **** poor. "We just didn't communicate".
No. You PLANNED. You made CLEAR STATEMENTS showing you were focusing on SHINNY because the STATS showed more sales.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Bob Ritchie
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:05:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Where is Hilmar's committment?
Not worth the paper it's written on I'm sorry to say.
That's what I was gonna say.
Hilmar apology (or his response of choice for the issue his arrogance caused) or STFU. Seriously.
P2W is already in game in virtually every way. There is no item in-game currently that can't be bought legally and within ToS by converting RL currency to isk. The real story is a CEO calling his meal ticket a bunch of whiners who will eventually bend over and take what ever he gives us.
Waiting for Hilmar official response-somebody page his crystal palace and interrupt the massage we paid for.
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Nice Package
Zero-G Hydroponics
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:08:00 -
[819]
Thanks Arnar & CCP.
Pretty good response.
Most normals will accept and appreciate.
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:45:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Kerrisone No, only to a few people like you it is 'sacred' to CCP making more money is sacred, like the Cash Cow Eve is.
I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.
Let me summarize for you what you actually said: "I don't care about this, so neither should you." Shove off. Immersion is important to some of us and Incarna as presented now is immersion breaking, and no, there is no way to justify getting out of your ship just to dock and get ammo unless suddenly the process of getting into a pod AND getting a pod into a ship is suddenly such a trivial task that it makes actually being a capsuleer less impressive and important. ________________
Originally by: "EVE Online: Tyrannis Trailer" Creation is so precious... and greed, so destructive.
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:46:00 -
[821]
what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:50:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Vandrion Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:51:51 Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:47:38 "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
You said the same thing last year about ALL forms of micro transactions.... What is the expiration date associated with the above statement??
http://i.imgur.com/f5Cq5.jpg
Edit to add the link for the actual forum thread:
Original statement of no MT by CCP
I noticed that, too. I'd give it around 6-8 months. Guess I need to give my assets to someone (read: a friend, not some random forumite) so they're not wasted when the remainder of my time runs out.
Also, bolded the important part. So you are planning on some "non-game breaking" items, eh, CCP? Considering your utter ineptitude of late, I'm dubious any of them will be implemented in any state other than "game breaking". Well, good luck with that I guess.
Ye'llo? |
Slidepot
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Posted - 2011.07.03 04:59:00 -
[823]
My one and only questions is... Was there any and I mean any interest show by the Ginger at the top.. Any? Did he stop by and say Hi? If not this whole :effort: was just a bandaid... IMO
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:01:00 -
[824]
Edited by: Vandrion on 03/07/2011 05:02:24
Originally by: Zakota Vertidei
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
You are taking things out of context. There are no plans for MT in relation to paying for SP.
Stop it. They are doing what they need to do.
I recommend reading to you....
As I have said once before in this thread-- The posts by CCP Shadow speak of MT as a whole.. If it was only skill points he would have said "No MT for skill points".
I will copy and paste Post #20 in that thread so you can read it again:
"No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility."
Whatsoever.... Skillpoints... 2 totally different words.....
I would like CSM/CCP to explain/define gamebreaking (per CCP statement) and game altering (per CSM statement). I think it is imporatant for all of us to know that the CSM, the players and CCP are all on the same page......
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Helena Russell Makanen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:05:00 -
[825]
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
Arrogant and snotty as usual telling people what they should think. Nice of you to call anyone who doesn't think like you do 'the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe'. Do you have any idea how to serve people without insulting those who don't think like you do? Hubris.
Oh sorry forgot, you got to be on video! You rock!
Thanks for your 'sympathy' about Hilmar's email mocking all Eve players. Where was the apology? Where was any word of regret from CCP? Where was your spine?
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Gendari Kallinen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:06:00 -
[826]
It's not the AUR, it's not the poor execution of the CQ even though it's the first step, it's the lying, plain and simple. And I will say this, the day that game-usable items get sold at the NeX store, is the day I quit EVE.
For a very good discussion of how and why CCP erred, read this.
We must trust CCP to create a fair, balanced game environment. We must trust that they will not twist the rules of the game for their own ends. We must trust them not to simply turn the player base into a huge cash-cow for CCP. That is why anything that even appears to alter the player base perception of whether CCP has broken that trust is such a big deal. I would strongly advise CCP communicate with the player base clearly, and without any hint of deceit or dissimulation.
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Juggalo Stazz
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:15:00 -
[827]
Originally by: Boaz Netopalis Much better worded than the prior 2 blogs, at least, but I'm still out. I wasn't really logging in much anyway so the whole dealie with the NEX store and the possibility of "gold ammo" didn't bug me. No -- I'm out due to Zulu's "rageblog" followed by Hilmar's email. The complete disregard for the players of the game in those 2 things are why I no longer wish to support CCP. TBH, in my case, there's nothing that could be said nor any apology that could be made that would reverse that for me, so while I can appreciate the attempt at conciliation it's not going to bring me back either.
I have enjoyed my time in EVE, so for those staying and re-subbing: Fly safe, and I wish you well.
It amazes me that players in this game are for the most part morally balanced and don't let others walk all over them.Don't get me wrong I am still angry with the rageblog, but I am a forgiving person. Thank you for your good luck wishes, I will try to fly safe, and I am re-subbing. Good luck to you in your RL endeavors.
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Poll
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:16:00 -
[828]
FIX LAG in large unit combat. That is what we should be truly outraged about....
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Ispia Jaydrath
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:23:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Helena Russell Makanen
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
Arrogant and snotty as usual telling people what they should think. Nice of you to call anyone who doesn't think like you do 'the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe'. Do you have any idea how to serve people without insulting those who don't think like you do? Hubris.
Oh sorry forgot, you got to be on video! You rock!
Thanks for your 'sympathy' about Hilmar's email mocking all Eve players. Where was the apology? Where was any word of regret from CCP? Where was your spine?
I get it, you're being ironic.
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Zen Sins
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:27:00 -
[830]
As I actually READ the Fearless newsletter, and have seen no evidence to support the spin about it being "deliberately controversial", I just don't buy their explanation. Maybe its an Icelandic thing, and I'm suffering from culture shock. But Ockham's razor says otherwise.
I am happy that CCP has apparently changed their minds about introducing performance enhancing goods in the NeX store.
I am disappointed that they did not admit to having plans to do so, but I can understand their reluctance to come clean.
All-in-all I'd call the CSM meeting a success. My faith that CCP won't be ruining the game with microtransactions is restored. My faith in CCP's honesty toward their customers will likely never be 100% again.
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Helena Russell Makanen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:29:00 -
[831]
Originally by: Poll FIX LAG in large unit combat. That is what we should be truly outraged about....
But they are 'fixing it'... they are going to slow down the battles to run in slow motion. That will fix everything!
Of course they will never put that item in their 'grand battle' promo videos. Why?
Because its lame and stupid.
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Helena Russell Makanen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:33:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Ispia Jaydrath
Originally by: Helena Russell Makanen
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
Arrogant and snotty as usual telling people what they should think. Nice of you to call anyone who doesn't think like you do 'the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe'. Do you have any idea how to serve people without insulting those who don't think like you do? Hubris.
Oh sorry forgot, you got to be on video! You rock!
Thanks for your 'sympathy' about Hilmar's email mocking all Eve players. Where was the apology? Where was any word of regret from CCP? Where was your spine?
I get it, you're being ironic.
As are you.
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Brother Phatt
Amarr Macabre Votum
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:41:00 -
[833]
well every one knows i hate most patches and changes in the game and pretty much don't believe any thing any one says i had 6 2003 account witch i have turned off all but one and I'm going to wait and see what happens i think no matter what u guys have put the start of the death nail in to eve the trust and belief in ccp is gone if it can come back it will take years. u would have been better off bring back the paint shop. _______________________________________________________ Hooded Monks Mining Industries www.hmmi.us |
Chingyz
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:49:00 -
[834]
So what I read from this they'll not put in Gold ammo items, however there's no promise of not putting things in that is part of the player driven economy, e.g. regular ships and items. Neither is there anything on why they didn't make the NEX items player made.
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Kiran
Minmatar Knights of Azrael
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Posted - 2011.07.03 05:53:00 -
[835]
In a previous CSM post they mentioned we might be able to change bloodlines at a latter date. What about gender as well ?
When some of us started playing back in 2003 CCP told us we would never have walking in stations and that our avatars would never leave their pods. Now all this has changed. Some of us have invested to much time and skill points into characters just to start all over again.
Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.
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d4shing
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:04:00 -
[836]
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
I think they communicated pretty clearly that they want more of our money but that they don't want to have to earn it by making the game more enjoyable to play.
They even communicated that they're happy to consider making the game worse in the long-run if it wrings out more cash in the short term.
I don't think the problem was that they didn't communicate this in a sufficiently gentle manner.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:05:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Kiran
Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.
And how did the goon CEO redeem himself exactly? By getting no apology for Hilmar's email insulting the entire community?
Or was it the video of him talking talking talking and then practically attaching his mouth to the Dev's crotch towards the end?
Pretty hair though. Glad he had enough time for that.
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Eterna Unum
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:07:00 -
[838]
Everyone here is missing the obvious: CCP has just completely brainwashed the CSM into being their mind slaves. Look! You can see it in The Mittani's eyes!! We're doomed!!! lol
Thank you CCP and everyone in the CSM for your hard work. I'm very happy to know our favorite internet spaceship game is not lost to us. This to me is proven in the statement of no gold ammo (vanity items only), and the commitment to work on better communication with the players. These are the biggest concerns I had.
It's not just what you've said, but what you're doing as well.
I'm looking forward to the dev blogs in the coming weeks.
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:10:00 -
[839]
Edited by: Garekell on 03/07/2011 06:11:47
Originally by: Eterna Unum and the commitment to work on better communication with the players.
They have promised this over and over and over and over and over and over to the players and multiple CSM's in the past.
I do mean over and over and over and over anytime the sh**t has hit the fan.
It means little now after so many repeats.
But go ahead and hope.... until the next time.
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Kiran
Minmatar Knights of Azrael
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:10:00 -
[840]
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Kiran
Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.
And how did the goon CEO redeem himself exactly? By getting no apology for Hilmar's email insulting the entire community?
Or was it the video of him talking talking talking and then practically attaching his mouth to the Dev's crotch towards the end?
Pretty hair though. Glad he had enough time for that.
And some people will never be pleased no matter what you do. The devil you do the devil you don't. In your eyes the CSM would never of won no matter what the outcome was. They are under a NDA so can't say much, but I ask you this. Do you know what the NDA means?
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:14:00 -
[841]
What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.
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Dalketh
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:14:00 -
[842]
Originally by: Kiran
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Kiran
Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.
And how did the goon CEO redeem himself exactly? By getting no apology for Hilmar's email insulting the entire community?
Or was it the video of him talking talking talking and then practically attaching his mouth to the Dev's crotch towards the end?
Pretty hair though. Glad he had enough time for that.
And some people will never be pleased no matter what you do. The devil you do the devil you don't. In your eyes the CSM would never of won no matter what the outcome was. They are under a NDA so can't say much, but I ask you this. Do you know what the NDA means?
YUP - it means powerless and useless except for blindlessly believing on faith. Look how well that has worked out lol. These last weeks taught you nothing apparently.
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Elayae
Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:16:00 -
[843]
Looks all good to me. I guess the return of the ship spinning feature includes the return of the other functionalities that came with it? (e.g. open cargo hold etc.)
Now that non vanity items are off the table, I would like to see a more specific discussion (or statement) about convenience and functionality micro transactions. Convenience and functionality stuff are part of the non vanity and is largely a very grey area that touches aspects of breaking stuff or is simply stuff that makes EVE without it more annoying to play. Possible future NEX store examples are: additional standings, wallets, hangars (alliance, corporation or personal), interregional market viewing, extra market functionalities etc. I am not in favor for these kind of things, I wonder what CCP can say about this.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:27:00 -
[844]
Originally by: JGR Mao Oh well Not really convinced as we did not get a definitive answer
But i guess it will have to do - atleast for now
Will definately be watching both what you say, and what you do more closely from now on.
Its ok to milk the cow - as long as you provide it some fresh pastures to munch on and generally keep it happy
Starving the cow to milk it even further, and then scaring it by bringin it to the slaughterhouse to sell its meat, will not work on these bloodthirsty voracious spacecows you have helped breeding here -mmkay!
I think it's more like somebody who works for the ranch with a particularly sadistic side, or disgruntled stance, decided to show pictures of the slaughterhouse interior to the spacecows even if the ranch management never had any intention of taking them to the slaughterhouse in the first place.
Y'know, just putting that out there. ---- "Sounds like a bad case of pikal envy, if you ask me."
Chief Engineering Officer - got the tools to fix your problems.
The new Maelstrom: Say hello to my little Dread. |
Eterna Unum
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:31:00 -
[845]
Edited by: Eterna Unum on 03/07/2011 06:36:07
Originally by: Cattegirn What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.
Wow...really?
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
This statement is very plain english, especially when paired with:
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
They have never planed, and never have planned to. What more does saying "We will not" add that changes anything if this doesn't give you warm fuzzies? Are you saying they have plans to change their plans that isn't actually planned??
I'm on the side of needing better communication, and I agreed when it appeared they sidestepped such a clear statement in the earlier blogs. If you want something new to complain about, there are more than a few already in this thread. But, barring that, get a grip, or at least start supporting your argument rationally. Please, enlighten me...
Edit: Another response dawned on me that I didn't originally think of.
Originally by: Cattegirn What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.
Obvious troll is obvious.
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C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:36:00 -
[846]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win".
No. I no longer consider you to be on my side, thanks. If it was so clear, then why not the SIMPLE, specific CLARITY your constituents demanded? Don't make any more excuses. You flubbed this.
_____
Quote: Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
WRONG AGAIN! We want the FUNCTIONALITY of the hangar view back. The 'drag and drop' ship-swaps, the 'double-click 'open cargo', etc. The ability to spin your ship was ALWAYS secondary, which was why the "frozen view" of the old hangar was acceptable.
This is what makes me so damn disappointed in the CSM in general, and you shiptoasting members especially. It's like you didn't even read the Threadnarok, when 1 million other viewers did. You were tasked with bringing the "Aurum for Non-Vanity Items" topic to a conclusion, yet you failed to even do this, allowing an untrustable and devious statement into the PR statement from CCP.
Quote: CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
Why this colossal waste of resources and dev time, when the OLD hangar was perfectly functional? Why didn't you HAMMER that home, while you were getting hammered with them, anyway?
Please ask for umbrellas to be made available in the Gold Shop. Either its raining in here, or you're ****ing on the players. And for goodness sake, STOP PATTING YOURSELVES ON THE BACK.
Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good |
Terh Rumnatarn
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:38:00 -
[847]
Reading the blog left me with an unknown taste. Don`t know what it is yet. But still, back in the game. Thx for the blog.
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Mordrake
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:45:00 -
[848]
Well its unfortunate that it had to involve so much drama, but I am back on board.
I think that CCP gets that there will be a hair trigger on this issue from the community in the future and I don't think there will be any more of these tainted thoughts.
EVE will stay true to its vision from hence forth because we the players now embody that vision.
Good Job CSM!!
"Arte et Marte" |
Mordrake
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:54:00 -
[849]
Originally by: Dark Reignz You guys have missed a crucial point here and that is:
CCP have yet to clarify there intentions as to which items acutally do fall under "Vanity Items".
Personally for me and no doubt alot of others i'm pretty gutted it will remain vanity only, becuase there are certain items I would have bought, stopping short of buying gold ships and more skill points. So I feel let down.
I reakon its the PRO MT side of the communities turn to cause uproar, whine and moan about this. Mass protest and fake-quit as we were not respresented at that meeting.......
If you wish to test your viewpoints out why don't you run for CSM and perhaps this platform will get you elected?
..... NOT!!!!
"Arte et Marte" |
Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.03 06:59:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Eterna Unum
They have never planed, and never have planned to. What more does saying "We will not" add that changes anything if this doesn't give you warm fuzzies? Are you saying they have plans to change their plans that isn't actually planned??
Wow talk about stupid. Did you not know that within the last year CCP tried to roll out 'Extra attribute remap for Plex!'
Game-changing isn't it? Allowing the rich to redo their training skill attributes more often so they train faster than the 'poor'?
The only thing then that stopped it is the trolls you so look down upon. Jesus do your research before opening your yap.
You fail.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:00:00 -
[851]
Some people are easily pleased....
Say, what is the rough time line for when we can start seeing substance from your promises? Hope it's before new year's eve as my PLEXes will be running out by then and, with development of EVE being as it is, I don't plan to buy any more. Of course this plan can change when circumstances change, I might even buy some more. --------
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Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:00:00 -
[852]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Pay2Win is very hard to nail down in a legalistic way, but everyone "knows it when they see it". Alas, when you get into the grey areas, reasonable people can come up with very different opinions.
Originally by: Moria Kethar Trebor - I am not concerned with the pay to win aspect of direct CCP --item-- sales, as that is a oversimplification. The issue is that it would be bypassing the player-generated economy, which is the backbone of Eve - right now, if you want a ship, guns, ammo, ect, someone in Eve had to work for it. THAT is the concern for me when CCP refuses to say No, never.
During one of the dinners, a CCP dev made exactly this point -- that if it was game-affecting and disconnected from the player economy, then P2W alarm bells should go off.
P2W is actually may be defined easily enough, if item(that influence on game play)need money to appear in the game and can not be obtained through in game means only, it is game breaking, it includes various bpc, cus while it seems using game ecnomy it still bypassing a lot of things,it can make obtaining of bpo t2bpc all the invetion process and faction bpc meaningless, it still directly influences on the game and in this case it gives advantage to industrialyst who uses it over all other
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:10:00 -
[853]
Originally by: Debbie DoesDallas Its unfortunate that CCP seemingly forgot how to communicate effectively with its player base. They've done fairly well in the past. I'm glad to hear the results of the summit. Thanks to the CSM's for the short notice trip.
The Incarna bugs are bad but then again, we all remember some bad bugs introduced in other expansions as well. They will have to fix em and hopefully soon.
I hope to see more content upgrades in the future and less WiS. How about fleshing out the T3 line to include other ship types? What about incorporating some of the winning ship designs from the last contest? I see more effort in a NeX store than I do with things that contribute to actual spaceship violence and that's sad.
I remember seeing a question-and-answer thread that mentioned the Tornado (one of the contest ships) would appear maybe sometime this Fall? ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Zleon Leigh
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:10:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Zastrow look at this csm being useful
look at CCP leading us on to think CSM was useful. The CSM didn't tell them anything 500+ pages of forums feedback hadn't already made painfully clear. It was just a way for CCP to save face.
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E6o5
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:16:00 -
[855]
Originally by: E6o5 Edited by: E6o5 on 02/07/2011 18:49:28
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
So they still can introduce a "NeXt" (next bull****) store to sell the "gold ammo" there and keep the NeX store clean ...
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
But next week new plans can be made ... also how do you define "game breaking" and "enhancements"? is a faction tower (I hear bpc don't drop anymore) game breaking when it can only be purchased using some AUR?
Quote: The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
What about fair advantages?
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:21:00 -
[856]
Originally by: Kane Molou What I want to know is what makes the CSM better then the rest of us? What makes them soooo damned special that they get access to information and the like we aren't allowed.........
oh that's right.....
Nothing.
they are no more and no less then the rest of us, except that they bow down and sign NDA's that forbid them from doing their job of keeping US informed.
Again.. if CCP is truely serious about showing us they are going to keep their promises of fixing bugs, releasing more content etc etc etc.. Lift the NDA. Lift the Gag order on the CSM and let us see what they see.. given again they are meant to be our voice..
How can WE have a real voice if WE don't get the same information?
What makes them special is people voted them in there. It's the same argument that would be used for your local elected government officials. Government representatives are ultimately no more special than any other person. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Corupt Gene
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:22:00 -
[857]
I feel very confident that the lack of me renewing any of the subscriptions on any of my accounts will sufficiently communicate what I think about this fluff job.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:24:00 -
[858]
Is is just me, or did I read nothing really changes besides the obvious of restoring some handy or familiar, but disappeared, features coming back?
Sure it was said there are **currently** not plans for anything but pure vanity items available in the shop. But in the context of last years statement that there will be no micro transactions whatsoever, that is a very weak statement!
I would say, none but the implicit announcement of lower price tier items shop mechanics issues players raised is mentioned in the blog. Let alone dealt with in a proper manner. Now I can wait on an explanation of the planned pricing structure, but that really does not change those fundamental issues one bit.
I Reiterate:
* PLEX Conversion to AUR
Don't mess with PLEX by adding additional demand for this item, which will affect sustainable accounts per player and overall. In game items that substract from PLEX is a loss of game content, not an addition!
* Concept of vanity for the riches
The idea is good, but why does it need to be linked to RL currency trough plex, and if so, why for the full 100%? Rich in EVE means having loads of ISK, a vanity item shop would be a pretty good ISK sink and might generate extra revenue just from selling a few more PLEX alone. More precise, the shop would have been perfectly integrated in the economy. I have read NO statement of why AUR is even needed, no rationale whatsoever!!!
And really, this ****es me off!
And as someone else wrote, if you stick with AUR. Why not price the items like you do with the LP shop? YOu demand a certain amount of AUR and a certain amount of ISK. This would go a long way to make AUR more liquid and usable.
I can rant on about this for days...but I will conclude that I have the feeling the CSM has been used as an excuse and publicity stunt on top of it. And that CCP will go on as if its business as usual, without listening to anything the players say.
This blog contains nothing but a marketing spin to me!
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:24:00 -
[859]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: AJ Falconi It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
I really like your post. If CCP had half as much common sense about EVE as you do after playing for a few weeks, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If you think of what CCP did as akin to what Tiger Woods did to his wife, you might better understand the player anger. (Many players have been loyal customers of CCP for far longer than Tiger Woods and his wife were a couple.) And when, as you say, CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, couldn't that anger be expected to grow? It certainly didn't help matters that CCP devs post with anonymous alts on forums in an unethical and dishonest effort to influence the debate. Nothing stokes anger more than dishonesty.
I'm personally not entirely convinced on the anonymous alts issue. Assuming they are alts and knowing whether they are either fanbois or alts are two entirely different things. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:25:00 -
[860]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Yes, CCP still wants to dock straight to Incarna. Yes, we all think that's a mistake, and we'll keep on trying to convince them they are wrong. But there is time to either convince them or (more likely) blackmail them.
Well, according to your CSM mate
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel "Old Hangar" is not the old hangar, it's similar to the old one in terms of function and performance. Read above for my points on the space->hangar->CQ thing. During CSM 5 we said "don't want people to be forced into incarna". CCP said "what if the performance is equal". We said "we still think it's undesirable, but this is an acceptable compromise". Pick your battles, the integration of flying in space and InCarna is going to happen, we placed the limit of when it is deemed acceptable and not.
and this quote
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Oh, they listened all right. But they don't agree. CSM can't force CCP to do anything, we can only try to persuade.
you already lost this one. When work is almost done they won't change their mind, ever... no matter what they say. |
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:26:00 -
[861]
Originally by: Moon Shadowfall Edited by: Moon Shadowfall on 02/07/2011 22:47:55
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: AJ Falconi It is unfortunate that neither CCP nor the players (in general) were able to speak reasonably and civilly through the blog and forum formats. The CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, and many of the players behaved like spoiled two-year-olds, but with a lot more bad language.
I really like your post. If CCP had half as much common sense about EVE as you do after playing for a few weeks, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
If you think of what CCP did as akin to what Tiger Woods did to his wife, you might better understand the player anger. (Many players have been loyal customers of CCP for far longer than Tiger Woods and his wife were a couple.) And when, as you say, CCP blogs & forum posts alternated between insulting and irrelevant, couldn't that anger be expected to grow? It certainly didn't help matters that CCP devs post with anonymous alts on forums in an unethical and dishonest effort to influence the debate. Nothing stokes anger more than dishonesty.
..says the person who trolled, flamed and baited MANY threads disagreeing with him...including trolling this one still. Get out the Preparation H and stop the whining...or move on to another game. What a hypocrite.
They can say nothing more to attempt to answer your concerns. If you can't trust them then please take your subscription money elsewhere...
This. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Marcus Aurelijus
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:28:00 -
[862]
Right,
Well at least that's moved me from a I'll let my game time run out to a well see what they DO instead. I do notice a slightly disturbing lack of presence in the statement about FUTURE MT - but I guess this is good as it gets.
So what would make me a happy capsuleer? - A even clearer statement from CCP not only to have no current plans for beyond-vanity MT but a promise not to start making those plans in the foreseeable (<-- see: im being nice here) future. I have been putting a lot of time into this game after all and would like a little more certainty if its sensible to spend more.
- An apology from Hilmar himself for the appalling attitude and disrespect hes shown the whole community.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:32:00 -
[863]
Glad to see it is moving forward, however I still see you have a major step to take in terms of communication because that is not anywhere near what it used to be, and I would really like to see that return, giving us the feeling that you do actually care and that the community voice is important.
Keep it up!
/c
Secure 3rd party service | in-game 'Holy Veldspar' Now /w voice |
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RougeOperator
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:37:00 -
[864]
Another BS CSM meeting with little to show other then the CSM member's got treated like kings for not doing the will of the players or taking a hardline stance against what CCP was doing.
Thanks for the failure guys.
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Eterna Unum
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:39:00 -
[865]
Edited by: Eterna Unum on 03/07/2011 07:42:47 Edited by: Eterna Unum on 03/07/2011 07:41:10
Originally by: Garekell
Wow talk about stupid. Did you not know that within the last year CCP tried to roll out 'Extra attribute remap for Plex!'
Game-changing isn't it? Allowing the rich to redo their training skill attributes more often so they train faster than the 'poor'?
The only thing then that stopped it is the trolls you so look down upon. Jesus do your research before opening your yap.
You fail.
Alright, thank you. Just a few points:
1) That was almost a rational statement 2) CCP canceled that plan when they realized how angry it made all of us. My quote, and this whole situation is based around the Incarna patch and NEX bringing in P2W. So, context can be useful 3) What makes you think I don't like trolls? My second comment was me smacking myself in the head thinking you were just trolling. I expected to get burned for that one. So, in the spirit of your lovely failure: learn to read...
Originally by: Etena Unum I am on the side of needing better communication, and I agreed when it appeared they sidestepped such a clear statement in the earlier blogs. But if you want something new to complain about, there are more than a few already in this thread.
Do some research as to which side of the "trolls" you think I'm on or actually read a post? Wait, you did niether.
I mentioned the others that have complaints out there, I agree with the other good points out there. I agree with Inspiration. I can even agree with YOU! CCP has shown moments of complete ignorance, and often shows a lack of understanding even their own game. People need to keep bringing up good points, and back them up. Not just make generalizations. If the devs are going to read this, lets give them something worthwhile.
Now, that your flaming me is out of the way, please. Answer the actual question, does adding "We will not" actually change anything if they are intending to lie anyway? CSM is bound by an NDA; CCP might have a program other than NEX they'll roll out with the non-vanity items. I'm obviously missing a peice of your puzzle. What raises this beyond the threshold people have that some won't be happy no matter what CCP says? So..
Originally by: Eterna Unum Enlighten me...
That wasn't hard, was it?
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Graava
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:43:00 -
[866]
I have plexed up my 4 accounts to Jan,(they were all previously paid by CC).
Now it is a wait and see what they do before I put my hand in my pocket, as I have just committed to 6 months of Perpetuum. (And yes their toons are fugly but toons are not the essence of the game)
As it is, I probably will not resub as I have no interest what so ever in the barbies. This is not the 'immersion' that keeps me amused, space is. This whole attitude smacks of arrogance on the behalf of the designers. Yellow types always have hissy fits when people do not agree with thier 'vision'.
As the Ship->Hanger->CQ battle seems to have been lost, so will my interest in the game.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:45:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Arja Marketta Good to have a confirmation that non-vanity items will never appear in the store.
That **obviously** they did not write, but you read it anyway...embrace the era of media spin doctors ruling at CCP!
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Korbin Dallaz
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:50:00 -
[868]
Originally by: CCP It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
I do not understand how so many of you fail to see that the NeX store and Aurum themselves break the player driven economy which is one of the most basic and fundamental aspects of this game. CCP is most certainly aware of this. The fact that they are saying they have no plans to introduce any game breaking items in the NeX store when the very store it's self has already broken the game should show you that they are lying . The only thing that CCP understands is canceled subscriptions. As long as you keep paying they will keep breaking the game .
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 07:51:00 -
[869]
Edited by: Inspiration on 03/07/2011 07:55:25
Originally by: Rrama Ratamnim
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Not good enough. Why the heck use an adjective like "game breaking" when you don't have to? Obviously CCP did this to get some wiggle-room.
So my 3*15Ç won't reach CCPs pockets next month.
Nit picky much.... game breaking changes such as P2W items are what we all were *****ing about, get a life
They use PLEX right?
Then it is game breaking more then you think.
The economic side of the game mechanics are just as important/wrecking as pay to win items would have. Less active accounts due to higher PLEX prices is less game content (less players to shoot at).
Realize, there is a limit of how much RL currency can flow in game, aka people are willing/able to spend. And there is a limit to in-game items this can be spend on in-game. PLEX which essentially is visualized game time, now has to compete with virtual items. This will make less game time available or at a higher price. This in turn means less active accounts and thus ** NO EXRTA ** long term profit for CCP. But CCP does need to spend a lot of resources to make and maintain the shop for eternity (they can't back down on what they sold you).
This is leaving less resources for true content for the players, of which there are less, meaning even less content for the players to shoot at.
MT is like a monkey trap and CCP is sticking its hand in with full force despite warnings not too!
YOU UNDERSTAND NOW...STUPID???????????
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:11:00 -
[870]
Edited by: Inspiration on 03/07/2011 08:12:31
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
That said nothing about the future, it was I think less then a year ago that they stated there are no plans for a MT shop whatsoever! They felt they had to strongly communicate that, now look where we are!
You are buying into marketing speak here!
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 -CCP promises to improve communication
No they did not, they stated:
Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP and will continue to be so.
A fundamental property...right...has always been...right...what exactly is their track record? Does it voice ANY intention to improve the communication and trust?
You are buying into marketing speak here!
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 -CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
But not in the way you expect or find useful. You always will load CQ, and not as you assume get the OLD back and have a door to CQ.
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 EDIT: resubbing two accounts
Good...where do you live?
I kill idiots as an in-game hobby and it looks like you will become a precious resource in the not so distant future.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:19:00 -
[871]
Originally by: The Offerer But what advantage? Do you have an advantage because you have the items OR does the manufacturer have the advantage because he gets your ISK OR does a PLEX buyer have an advantage because he can afford (ISK wise) to play the game for free?
It's a win-win-win scenario. It's so cool that it's bigger than bi-winning... it's tri-winning.
P2W is the system where you get the items from the MT store for cash and no one else gets anything.
Haha- tri-winning, I like that. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Zakota Vertidei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:21:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Vandrion Edited by: Vandrion on 03/07/2011 05:02:24
Originally by: Zakota Vertidei
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Taedrin Edited by: Taedrin on 02/07/2011 16:52:28 /very satisfied
Highlights: -CCP confirms that there are no non-vanity items in the NEX, nor were there ever any real plans to introduce them.
-CCP promises to improve communication
-CCP promises to reintroduce ship spinning in the future.
EDIT: resubbing two accounts
They said no MT at all last year.....Original NO MT statement by CCP
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
You are taking things out of context. There are no plans for MT in relation to paying for SP.
Stop it. They are doing what they need to do.
I recommend reading to you....
As I have said once before in this thread-- The posts by CCP Shadow speak of MT as a whole.. If it was only skill points he would have said "No MT for skill points".
I will copy and paste Post #20 in that thread so you can read it again:
"No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility."
Whatsoever.... Skillpoints... 2 totally different words.....
I would like CSM/CCP to explain/define gamebreaking (per CCP statement) and game altering (per CSM statement). I think it is imporatant for all of us to know that the CSM, the players and CCP are all on the same page......
I still believe that he was simply replying to the threads topic and to SP.
Besides, as quoted from the statement made by CCP:
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
I believe this means that no items will be added to the NeX that effect gameplay in any way. Saying otherwise and demanding that CCP say it a special way is simply splitting hairs. Assume what game-breaking means and, boom, you have a definition.
A monocle is not going to stop your blasters from blowing someone up.
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Eterna Unum
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:22:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Inspiration
Good...where do you live?
I kill idiots as an in-game hobby and it looks like you will become a precious resource in the not so distant future.
Careful, I hear they ban for talk like that now. Or was that only when speaking about CCP employees? Locator agent and podding is much more fun given the options available to all of us in EVE.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:29:00 -
[874]
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Feisty Cadavar If this was a product I designed - I'd probably have something like you dock up, and you see from the inside of the ship out to the hangar deck with a camera flying around your ship displaying your current ship ( that you can spin ).
And that's precisely what's wrong with the old hangar: it's not based on the new balcony area where your ship currently floats. So, just putting the old one back, and then have you dock to quarters and find yourself in an entirely different hangar, that's just immersion-breaking on a grotesque level.
Just give 'em some time to come up with a new spinning design.
Oddly enough, the new hangar bay past the balcony is actually the old hangar environment. Take a look. It's even still dependent on the race of the station. It's really funny to see a Gallente or Caldari or Amarr hangar interior connected to a Minmatar room as it is now. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Lord Kreza
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 08:34:00 -
[875]
Thank you CSM!
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uncloned
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 08:37:00 -
[876]
nice work, congrats to ccp and mostly to the CSM!
any news about the exchange "pimped ship for arum" vs "pimped ship for arum+classic ship" ?
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Herring
Caldari Pimpology
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 08:38:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Vandrion Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:51:51 Edited by: Vandrion on 02/07/2011 16:47:38 "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
You said the same thing last year about ALL forms of micro transactions.... What is the expiration date associated with the above statement??
http://i.imgur.com/f5Cq5.jpg
This, frankly. I'm not quite convinced.
Edit to add the link for the actual forum thread:
Original statement of no MT by CCP
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Trebor Daehdoow
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 08:45:00 -
[878]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow During one of the dinners, a CCP dev made exactly this point -- that if it was game-affecting and disconnected from the player economy, then P2W alarm bells should go off.
Which specific CCP dev said this? And why wasn't there a commitment to no future "non-vanity" MTs?
It was told to me by CCP Noneofyourbusiness.
See my blog posting for my opinion as to why CCP did not want to say "never".
Originally by: Darkside007 "The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle"
Including "Under NDA" tells me that the CSM cannot contradict anything CCP, even if it's BS. =\
Not so. We can most certainly tell you it is BS, we just can't tell you the details -- size, consistency, stench, etc. -- of the BS.
Originally by: I'thari (about the hangar going away) you already lost this one. When work is almost done they won't change their mind, ever... no matter what they say.
I don't think so. They have to implement a new "temporary" hangar view using the Incarna engine in order to deal with the performance issues and meet their original functionality commitment to CSM and the community.
Then, at such time as they can meet that commitment in the CQ, they want to remove this "temporary" hangar. We all disagree with this last step, and will do our best to change their minds. We will just keep bugging them about it, and hopefully they will make it permanent just to get us to "STFU, already".
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Marbella Wilson
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 08:45:00 -
[879]
This statement is about as much as we could hope for.
Doesn't take away the fact that we've had a lot of crappy expansions, most of the development time is dedicated to Incarna, WOD and Dust. The space game has been pretty much ignored. I don't like the direction CCP is going at all.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 08:50:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/07/2011 01:17:16 Edited by: Dodgy Past on 03/07/2011 01:16:32 6-8 months before news of MT for convenience ( which will be abused into MT for advantage ) leaks out and we have another explosion of rage.
It's somewhat ironic that the only thing the document successfully communicates is that CCP knows they're not very good at communication. Oscillating between no non-vanity MTs and no game breaking MTs in the same document with no definition of what a non game breaking MT is
The CSM went to Iceland knowing what the players needed to hear yet CCP managed to hurf blurf them so that the reality is not only has the faith of many player in CCP not been restored but also CSM 6 has also managed to tarnish itself as well.
From what I've seen many players are far from ready to reinvest themselves in Eve having broken their emotional attachment to the game over the last couple of weeks.
'many', but not necessarily 'a majority'. If you don't want to believe "Fearless" is toilet paper, that's fine. I'm willing to see it their way... for now. Realize most all of us are watching them closely, regardless of whether we believe the joint statement or not. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
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Sanphesta
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:06:00 -
[881]
Dear seeseepee,
while im delighted with your intent to return ship spinning i still have issues with how eve is being developed. Yada yada yada, i mad.
In conclusion, we the players still want to burn something. If you could send out one of your sound guys that will be enough for now (trust me hes not doing a thing anyway)
Sincerely ME
seriously though, 3 years to replace my ship spinning with a wall? THREE YEARS TO REPLACE IT WILL A WALL?
legal disclaimer- the above mentioned "burn something" followed by a request for certain employees to be sent out should not be taken as a rl threat.... It is more of a rephrasing of the "eve has sound?" meme weve grown to love. perhaps now that my wall has been completed you could spend the next three years on something shooty shooty ship related? Perhaps even put some sound effects in that dont make me want to destroy my speakers...
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Signal11th
Versatech Co.
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:08:00 -
[882]
Edited by: Signal11th on 03/07/2011 09:11:56
TL DR
Geezer was ****ed off that someone leaked an internal mail, decided to take it out on player base. No offense but the "abuse of trust" this is usually a whistleblower who actually gives a sh.ite about something that he/she isn't happy about and feel no other way of communicating it. No game breaking items will be introduced but if they are CSM will be the first to know about it.
That was about it and people are saying thanks for that???? Jesus some people are easily pleased.
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Inspiration
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:09:00 -
[883]
Edited by: Inspiration on 03/07/2011 09:11:24
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: The Offerer But what advantage? It's a win-win-win scenario. It's so cool that it's bigger than bi-winning... it's tri-winning.
Except that he is wrong, he describes how PLEX works now. While AUR is derived from PLEX, the real life currency competes feeding it with the already existing use of PLEX. Buying game time, meaning higher PLEX prices and likely less active accounts!
So that win/win/win, turns into a win/tie/loose situation. Where the win is the buyer, the tie is CCP and the looser is everyone not involved in the transaction. All based on how rich you are in RL, so it is detrimental for the game as a whole.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:10:00 -
[884]
Originally by: rantuket I have been waiting with bated breathe on the results from this only to be left a little shocked. Why it took so long to say "nope, no plans on doing that at all" took so long is beyond me.
But for all the recent hubub about the nex store and the way CCP is taking EVE - this while incident - was a wake up call for me and many others. I personally dont give a **** about MT, but I do care about EVE and for now it seems like that game is on hold until incarna is fully released over the next few updates.
CCP, you wont have my subs back until you change course and go back to fixing your spaceship game.
This is the sort of position I can fully respect, and fully expect, from EVE expansions. Good journey to you, sir, and hope to pew pew with you one day. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Luna Nera
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:10:00 -
[885]
thanks for the post and clarifications Navigator
now im curious about NEX "ship skin"
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Mr Binkins
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:12:00 -
[886]
Ship spinning? Are you people serious? Why is that even an issue? Click on info and then click the picture and you can spin your ship all you like. The station environment is great. It does hang a tiny tiny bit on my 5 year old PC when I run two accounts on two screens but nothing compared to some ****tier made MMO's. For example, I have trouble running APB on just one screen. WTF are you guys trying to run EVE on? A Commodore 64? The fact that people can run two instances of the EVE with an older PC at all is testament to CCP. Captain's Quarters is great. I'm looking forward to walking in stations, and I'm sure CCP will do a great job of that.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:13:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: I'thari (about the hangar going away) you already lost this one. When work is almost done they won't change their mind, ever... no matter what they say.
I don't think so. They have to implement a new "temporary" hangar view using the Incarna engine in order to deal with the performance issues and meet their original functionality commitment to CSM and the community.
Then, at such time as they can meet that commitment in the CQ, they want to remove this "temporary" hangar. We all disagree with this last step, and will do our best to change their minds. We will just keep bugging them about it, and hopefully they will make it permanent just to get us to "STFU, already".
You gained nothing, we are left with the same as now, no choice. Are you really try to have us believe that we shouldn't worry because they will eventually let us have a choice? You couldn't even get them to agree to making it optional, after all that has occurred over the past week.
Disingenuous blog is disingenuous.
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Inspiration
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:18:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Eterna Unum
Originally by: Inspiration
Good...where do you live?
I kill idiots as an in-game hobby and it looks like you will become a precious resource in the not so distant future.
Careful, I hear they ban for talk like that now. Or was that only when speaking about CCP employees? Locator agent and podding is much more fun given the options available to all of us in EVE.
I am unlikely to get banned for role playing, now am I? This is EVE for crying out loud, it is rough, bloody, violent and immersing. Strong talk is part of this experience and the forums are part of it!
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:26:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Darkside007 "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store."
When President Bush was planning on invading Iraq, his response when asked was "There are no plans on my desk". Which was true - the plans were kept away from the final review/signature stage to avoid answering "yes". Once the plan was ready, it was implentmented. It wasn't allowed to sit idle to avoid lying to the press.
"There are no plans" isn't "We will not". It's "We would like to in the future."
"Arnar, as Senior Producer of EVE, is on record as saying he opposes the introduction of game-breaking stuff like P2W into EVE."
Originally by: Darkside007 "The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle"
Including "Under NDA" tells me that the CSM cannot contradict anything CCP, even if it's BS. =\
I'm pretty sure I remember seeing the CSM say that they're quite willing to break NDA if they think CCP is BS.
kthxbai ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
AngelFood
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:29:00 -
[890]
As a vet (not bitter-although i'm a little bitter about this new phrase bittervet) and a solo player i trust the core of ccp where every aspect of this game is concerned that is the icelandic core of ccp of course. I don't vote for csm becuase i don't think we need it and i don't think csm will be fair because most of the ppl who really play the game trust ccp too and don't want power block americans influencing them. anyway i digress.
Amongst all these silly protests where there was x amount of ppl in jita and amar and so on .. was 2k ppl? in each so not much more than normally and most not involved really and that leaves say 40k players not even in those systems not caring a jot about these ridiculous goon style protests. like me i dont care it was all a misunderstanding anyway .. and just more of the same american teen inhibition spilling into real life. ban them all simple.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:37:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Lemming Lass I can access the NeX store without loading the CQ, and that store should be filled with ship painting and other vanity crap that has nothing to do with WiS clothing.
Emphasis added, for your benefit. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Laurent Detoile
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:37:00 -
[892]
I've never ever written a single comment in the forum, even though I've been - with one account or the other - dwelling in New Eden for about 4 years, but now I feel like I have to make a statement:
To CCP Zulu, Flying Scotsman and Soundwave, I want to express that you are making by far the best sci-fi game our real planet has to offer, and you've managed to keep it exciting and thrilling ever since I saw the first eve online advert. May be the past few weeks had their pretty hard moments, but I am absolutely sure that there is a "silent majority" that either hasn't heard of the "comm problems" that were in the news, or doesn' care because they are too busy PLAYING the most awesome game ever to be created. I'm here because of one fact: EVE is fun. Lots of it. Thanks to you and your visions! So keep it up, maybe make some adjustments following the outcome of the CSM/CCP meeting, but please, I beg I beg (and I won't stop begging) you: Don't forget that you are making a brilliant, visionary game that we all are enthusiastic about, and don't stop being among the very most creative and innovative minds in the industry.
I salute you!
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Jakarra Ruus
Caldari PWNED Factor
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:39:00 -
[893]
I dont see why they cant permanatly have a door to the station spinning hanger to keep all us old farts happy its not as if its going to take up much more resourses just bang an other door in the wall, and thats dead easy if you listen to my wife : ) I smell ****e! |
Zakota Vertidei
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:42:00 -
[894]
Originally by: Laurent Detoile I've never ever written a single comment in the forum, even though I've been - with one account or the other - dwelling in New Eden for about 4 years, but now I feel like I have to make a statement:
To CCP Zulu, Flying Scotsman and Soundwave, I want to express that you are making by far the best sci-fi game our real planet has to offer, and you've managed to keep it exciting and thrilling ever since I saw the first eve online advert. May be the past few weeks had their pretty hard moments, but I am absolutely sure that there is a "silent majority" that either hasn't heard of the "comm problems" that were in the news, or doesn' care because they are too busy PLAYING the most awesome game ever to be created. I'm here because of one fact: EVE is fun. Lots of it. Thanks to you and your visions! So keep it up, maybe make some adjustments following the outcome of the CSM/CCP meeting, but please, I beg I beg (and I won't stop begging) you: Don't forget that you are making a brilliant, visionary game that we all are enthusiastic about, and don't stop being among the very most creative and innovative minds in the industry.
I salute you!
o7 x one million
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:53:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Constantinus Maximus Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 03/07/2011 04:03:00 Where is Hilmar's committment?
Not worth the paper it's written on I'm sorry to say.
edit: Actually, this is **** poor. "We just didn't communicate".
No. You PLANNED. You made CLEAR STATEMENTS showing you were focusing on SHINNY because the STATS showed more sales.
"Arnar, as Senior Producer of EVE, is on record as saying he opposes the introduction of game-breaking stuff like P2W into EVE."
But I figure you already quit the game, so:
kthxbai ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Inspiration
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 09:55:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Laurent Detoile So keep it up, maybe make some adjustments following the outcome of the CSM/CCP meeting, but please, I beg I beg (and I won't stop begging) you: Don't forget that you are making a brilliant, visionary game that we all are enthusiastic about, and don't stop being among the very most creative and innovative minds in the industry.
I salute you!
Implementing a MT shop because so may other games are doing it is creative and visionary? Please try to convince me of this!
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:56:00 -
[897]
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
Telling it like it is. Still want to pod Goons. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 09:59:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Slidepot My one and only questions is... Was there any and I mean any interest show by the Ginger at the top.. Any? Did he stop by and say Hi? If not this whole :effort: was just a bandaid... IMO
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
Have you not read? They met with his @$$. I think I'll take a page from The Mittani and say I can't be arsed to find it for you, though. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:02:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Vandrion I recommend reading to you....
As I have said once before in this thread-- The posts by CCP Shadow speak of MT as a whole.. If it was only skill points he would have said "No MT for skill points".
I will copy and paste Post #20 in that thread so you can read it again:
"No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility."
Whatsoever.... Skillpoints... 2 totally different words.....
I would like CSM/CCP to explain/define gamebreaking (per CCP statement) and game altering (per CSM statement). I think it is imporatant for all of us to know that the CSM, the players and CCP are all on the same page......
I also recommend reading... my new sig... ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:09:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Helena Russell Makanen
Originally by: Poll FIX LAG in large unit combat. That is what we should be truly outraged about....
But they are 'fixing it'... they are going to slow down the battles to run in slow motion. That will fix everything!
Of course they will never put that item in their 'grand battle' promo videos. Why?
Because its lame and stupid.
Even they've admitted it's a stop-gap, a band-aid. Of course, you are welcome to believe whatever you want. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:15:00 -
[901]
Originally by: d4shing
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
I think they communicated pretty clearly that they want more of our money but that they don't want to have to earn it by making the game more enjoyable to play.
They even communicated that they're happy to consider making the game worse in the long-run if it wrings out more cash in the short term.
I don't think the problem was that they didn't communicate this in a sufficiently gentle manner.
Oh, I'm sorry. Someone trying to be sincere, and there even being a video to display the body language of sincerity, is obviously "UNACCEPTABLE!"
Surely that's not evidence that the toilet rag is a toilet rag. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:15:00 -
[902]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel The art department dictates (as they always have) what is acceptable and not. [..] As far as I know they do not plan to accept player-generated textures or models.
So it's fear of competition rather than enhancing EVE what drives them.
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Noel Tiberius
Caldari Coffee Hub
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:17:00 -
[903]
Edited by: Noel Tiberius on 03/07/2011 10:17:54 I'm pretty happy with the outcome. Nothing unexpected came out of it, but it's good to know that CCP takes the players concerns seriously.
I was a bit dissapointed though, I had hoped for more info about the future of EVE. Maybe something for a new devblog? A part of the player base feels neglected, and it would be a good idea to sum up all the plans for the next 6-12 months.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:18:00 -
[904]
Originally by: Kiran
Originally by: Dalketh
Originally by: Kiran
Good job on the statements, I did have my doubts about a Goonswarm CEO being in there. But like the rest of us you have a passion and view on Eve. Thank you.
And how did the goon CEO redeem himself exactly? By getting no apology for Hilmar's email insulting the entire community?
Or was it the video of him talking talking talking and then practically attaching his mouth to the Dev's crotch towards the end?
Pretty hair though. Glad he had enough time for that.
And some people will never be pleased no matter what you do. The devil you do the devil you don't. In your eyes the CSM would never of won no matter what the outcome was. They are under a NDA so can't say much, but I ask you this. Do you know what the NDA means?
Besides, the minutes are coming, and if you must insist, you can dissect those once they're out. Of course, it probably won't matter regardless, as Kiran said. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Nehmen Geld
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:21:00 -
[905]
Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.
Bravo! |
Dallenn
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:24:00 -
[906]
I'm quite happy with the statement, restores a lot of my faith in Eve. Now we only need CCP to do its magic for in-space content, as that's where the game is. Hmm more small-scale PvP perhaps? --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Ankh
Minmatar Angel Constellation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:29:00 -
[907]
Generally satisfied, thanks to those who have clearly worked hard to get this far. I'd like clarification on a couple of points:
(1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
More importantly:
(2) Will CCP will continue to invest in the development of EVE as a unique and compelling product in its own right? This did not seem to be covered in the statement or vid. My perception remains that EVE development is currently focused around it being a platform for the introduction of new content supporting the develoment of other future products. A statement that "CCP has long term plans for EVE and its continued development as a unique core product within its future portfolio" will be most welcome.
Confirmation of these, and I'll be a happy bunny.
Ankh. Internet spaceship pilot in New Eden since May 2003.
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Lederstrumpf
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:29:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Terh Rumnatarn Reading the blog left me with an unknown taste. Don`t know what it is yet.
Does it taste like a fart smells like? |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:32:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Nehmen Geld Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.
Bravo!
I love your sarcasm :)
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Kimbli d'Rohan
|
Posted - 2011.07.03 10:32:00 -
[910]
I unsubbed pending these discussions, and I'm sure the numbers of players doing so concentrated CCPs minds wonderfully. (Would love to see those numbers - finance must have been having kittens....) So having expressed my dissatisfaction previously, I'm going to express my cautious approval by resubbing - for the time being. I note the 'wiggle room' which CCPs statement gives them, but I think they have had a huge wake up call from our reaction and we have collectively made a big difference here. Yes there are outstanding questions but to me EVE is still unique and while it stays true to the vision that brought me here, I'll stay.
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Nehmen Geld
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:37:00 -
[911]
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Nehmen Geld Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.
Bravo!
I love your sarcasm :)
In this instance I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually quite enthused by the whole thing. This is a seminal and global example of the "inversion" effect of agile development where the customer becomes king, the workers drive direction (let's hope), and the management end up being a bunch of powerless facilitators. Somebody could do a software management PhD based on the past week. :) |
Ordon Gundar
Caldari Celestial Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:40:00 -
[912]
Is no-one else concerned by the wording of "..game breaking items, like ships with different stats to those in game.."??
That is not the issue! The issue is that ANY ship, or ANYTHING currently available on the in-game market should NOT be available for purchase on NEX. Not just super ships!
I still think there is a lot of wiggle room on these statements.
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Estelle McDeal
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:45:00 -
[913]
Basically all the said is that they "don¦t have plans" to make eve p2w.
Is it the same "no plans" statement as mentioned here?
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7
Imho all they did was giving us a big show with no content at all.
It will turn out that eve will become a p2w game and just check their earlier statements to see how fast "no plans" will change into solid actions.
No offense to CSM but you guys have been abused as their PR machine and you got fooled.
Just my opinion. Accs will stay unsubbed.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:54:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Marcus Aurelijus Right,
Well at least that's moved me from a I'll let my game time run out to a well see what they DO instead. I do notice a slightly disturbing lack of presence in the statement about FUTURE MT - but I guess this is good as it gets.
So what would make me a happy capsuleer? - A even clearer statement from CCP not only to have no current plans for beyond-vanity MT but a promise not to start making those plans in the foreseeable (<-- see: im being nice here) future. I have been putting a lot of time into this game after all and would like a little more certainty if its sensible to spend more.
- An apology from Hilmar himself for the appalling attitude and disrespect hes shown the whole community.
I'd back your suggestions all the way to the bank. Especially the 'foreseeable future' deal. After reading Trebor's blog and other stuff, it does seem important to not cut it off ENTIRELY from a shareholder-liability standpoint, but extend it out as far as you can without saying the dreaded 'never'.
Also, a Hilmar apology would do wonders for quite a few people, from the sounds of things. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Dreamchasr
0utbreak Outbreak.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:54:00 -
[915]
Gonna resub the account I let run out.
Im quite pleased with the statement. As long as MT is limited to vanity items then fair enough.
..and bring back old hangar functionality :)
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.07.03 10:55:00 -
[916]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
Satisfied. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:00:00 -
[917]
Originally by: Nehmen Geld Edited by: Nehmen Geld on 03/07/2011 10:38:30
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Nehmen Geld Some of the most fascinating weeks. A truly seminal example of agile software development processes in practice. The software industry should be all over this like a plague. Release, review, adapt, release, review, adapt.
Bravo!
I love your sarcasm :)
In this instance I'm not being sarcastic, I'm actually quite enthused by the whole thing. This is a seminal and global example of the "inversion" effect of agile development where the customer becomes king, the workers drive direction (let's hope), and the management end up being a bunch of powerless facilitators. Somebody could do a software management PhD based on the past week. :)
Lean and agile approaches are all about giving up on control and embracing chaos. This is truly seminal, truly.
If anything agile at CCP has shown to break exiting features and result in sloppy quality that takes weeks to sometimes a month or more to correct. The projects that are not done agile, like stackless IO seem to be of much better quality out of the box. It is almost as people are rewards for delivering something without caring if it actually works as intended...or the intend is missing altogether.
As for the players being in control or CCP giving any design control out of hands. The only thing I see in this blog is that they say...get lost player base,...we are doing it our way and here is some small change to keep you happy, no promises. And that small change being stuff they took out the first place!
I really have seen nothing properly addressed, whatsoever, it is just one big wall of spin! And you see that as the superiority of agile development? I take it you love agile so much, it is almost a religion in its own right to you. And in turn is making you blinded for what happened and how CCP dealt with it.
Dream on, someone so deep into it, cannot be seen reality!
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Hikaru Kobayashi
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:01:00 -
[918]
Edited by: Hikaru Kobayashi on 03/07/2011 11:01:51 Ship spinning... hahaha. ItÆs true though, I love ship spinning!
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Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery Gryphon League
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:03:00 -
[919]
Ok, I feel somewhat better by the following statements, but I still don't trust CCP. I will believe it when I see it;
Originally by: Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
...[T]he Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store. [,] The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time.
However, this statement still leaves much to be desired. It doesn't clearly address the pricing issues that players have raised. However, I am not jumping on the whine bandwagon, this does make me highly annoyed. I don't understand why this took two days for crafting and submission. Lawyers perhaps?;
Originally by: Statement on behalf of CCP from Arnar Hrafn Gylfason, Senior Producer for EVE Online
...[T]he launch of the virtual goods store should have been better. To address that, we will write up dev blogs that explain the pricing strategy of the NeX store and the price tiering system. We will also communicate that we intend to put the focus on further fleshing out the lower price range and give visual examples of upcoming items.
Notice there is no mention of reducing the prices, and I find the statement somewhat arrogant, in that CCP feels that they need to 'explain their pricing strategy' to us once again. An explanation is not necessary, we understand the strategy. The issue of pricing is a component of the strategy which has been explained well enough, the players simply don't like it.
I am willing to give CCP the benefit of the doubt here however, I feel they are trying, but I still think they should try harder. We shall see the eventual future that these discussions have wrought, however I think for the most part it was nothing more than alot of back slapping and various machinations of the Good 'Ol Boy System.
Alliance Owned Stargates
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crymyname
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:16:00 -
[920]
ok so that was nothing i wanted to hear we get spining ships hanger back ..... till they fix incarna... not what i wanted to hear ... i don't want to walk round .. simples
and what are these grey areas that the csm are so worried about ??? to me things have been said and done to plz ccp .. the csm have had a good time a little chat and maybe a nice cheque/cash to take home .. i've got 27 days left ... anyone want to buy a pen and get a free toon with it ... ????
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CurtisH
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:20:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Alakazam Mmhmhh.. I would really appreciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.
This.
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I'thari
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:21:00 -
[922]
Edited by: I''thari on 03/07/2011 11:26:21
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow I don't think so. They have to implement a new "temporary" hangar view using the Incarna engine in order to deal with the performance issues and meet their original functionality commitment to CSM and the community.
Then, at such time as they can meet that commitment in the CQ, they want to remove this "temporary" hangar. We all disagree with this last step, and will do our best to change their minds. We will just keep bugging them about it, and hopefully they will make it permanent just to get us to "STFU, already".
Even tho I wish I'm wrong about this one, for now I'm under the impression that they got only "ship spinning" part, not functionality of old hangar or impression breaking dock=disembark instead of dock(hangar)-> disembark(cq)->/dance in station.
They did promice to make it optional, but instead of giving players logical reason, they just force everyone into it (and yes, at least for now, CQ=incarna, if devs don't understand that). Ofc, it's way simplier solution, but even with "no one likes being forced to do somehting" is not exactly a valid argument, such design descisions are contradictory with principles "sandbox MMOs" are built upon.
According to their own early (before this year) vids, it should have been: dock-> disembark (old UI dissapear - otherwise you can't really be "off the net") -> you go about your shady business. Considering that having game without human avatars tend to attact player base that doesn't care about such things so much, CCP needs to re-think their stance on this a little (it's fundamental waste of resources, re****ed in reduced functionality, from that POV).
Yes, players that care alot about avatars will be attracted, but it'll require actual gameplay features added to station enviroment... not to mention way more "eye candy" than it currently has (or CCP seem to be able to offer). I know that "this is just a tiny part", "they working on it", "it gonna be best expansion ever", etc.,etc.... but with all "feature abandoment" trend it'll take them several really cool expansions to take their word on "all will be cool/we'll make it work later"... for now I don't see it happening.
ALso this:
Originally by: Alakazam Mmhmhh.. I would really appreciate it if you make the AUR shop optional visible and remove AUR from personal wallet.
Aur has no place in wallet for as long as it's not used for market orders. At least don't display it using different (brighter) color than you use for isk, it's irritating. |
Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:23:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: Kerrisone No, only to a few people like you it is 'sacred' to CCP making more money is sacred, like the Cash Cow Eve is.
I hate to be blunt but it seems like you are getting really worked up to have CCP make up a lie to explain leaving your pod everytime, how about a new technology that removes all 'nasty' aspects of decanting? Or your pod auto ejects from the ship for security/safety reasons and machines remove/dress you which is why you don't notice anything until after you are dressed/out of your pod? All we need now is some CCP employee to write it up in a new chronicle/etc then it will all be okay.
Let me summarize for you what you actually said: "I don't care about this, so neither should you." Shove off. Immersion is important to some of us and Incarna as presented now is immersion breaking, and no, there is no way to justify getting out of your ship just to dock and get ammo unless suddenly the process of getting into a pod AND getting a pod into a ship is suddenly such a trivial task that it makes actually being a capsuleer less impressive and important.
When you want to spin what someone else said don't say you are summarizing what they said, leave it at 'summary' or a 'tldr'.
I explained how CCP doesn't care, look at the facts, what they DID and what they are planning to DO. Then tell me they care, tell me the lore is important to them. I care about how it makes no sense and how stupid their decision is to implement a process that goes against everything we've come to know about the game/world WE inhabit.
Try reading what I wrote again or anything I've said about this because I don't agree with what they are doing. BUT I also Don't think the people who are begging, and some people have been and ARE begging to be told it will all be alright. If all it takes for you or someone else to be 'happy' with the BS changes is someone at CCP making up a new story to justify it then you should 'shove off'.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Senlia Hucel-Ge
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:24:00 -
[924]
Resubed
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Asyrdin Harate
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:24:00 -
[925]
There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?
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N'oah
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:25:00 -
[926]
So what happened to the demand for more focus on developing eve instead of their new titles? Did you really travel to iceland and you didnt bring up that question?
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Noran Ferah
Red Sky Morning
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:25:00 -
[927]
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
Unless, of course, you use your investment of money to buy a 100M sp character on the character bazaar.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:27:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Asyrdin Harate There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?
CCP also said "there are no plans to change plans", which addresses your comment but we didn't put it in the statements because at some point it just becomes ridiculous. If you are not willing to believe them, you won't believe them no matter what they say. ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Stormchyld
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:28:00 -
[929]
Edited by: Stormchyld on 03/07/2011 11:33:26
Originally by: Jeff Severasse Just like CCP stated they are watching what we do and not what we say...
CCP now, more then ever probably, we are going to be watching what you do now that we have seen what you have to say.
PLEASE dont F*** up! I LOVE THIS GAME!!!!!
.... +1 .. as I said in an earlier reply I think this is ok for now anyway. I just don't think that players can do much more atm. We've made our displeasure and discontent with Incarna known to CCP and there is much more that CCP should do to improve performance imo. I have no intention whatsoever to going back to using a single account to play this game. They have also paid a big price as far as the bad press about all of this but there is a point when I just need to wait and see what they do... not what they say.... as Jeff Severasse put it. |
El Puerco
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:43:00 -
[930]
I aprove. ... |
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Jamina Galandel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:44:00 -
[931]
Edited by: Jamina Galandel on 03/07/2011 11:44:49 "[...] CCP now, more then ever probably, we are going to be watching what you do now that we have seen what you have to say.[...]"
+1
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Lucia Ferragano
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:46:00 -
[932]
Originally by: Ankh Generally satisfied, thanks to those who have clearly worked hard to get this far. I'd like clarification on a couple of points:
(1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
More importantly:
(2) Will CCP will continue to invest in the development of EVE as a unique and compelling product in its own right? This did not seem to be covered in the statement or vid. My perception remains that EVE development is currently focused around it being a platform for the introduction of new content supporting the develoment of other future products. A statement that "CCP has long term plans for EVE and its continued development as a unique core product within its future portfolio" will be most welcome.
Confirmation of these, and I'll be a happy bunny.
Ankh. Internet spaceship pilot in New Eden since May 2003.
+1
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:47:00 -
[933]
If my Implants and Hardwirings equipped gets destroyed with the clone so should the Monocle and Clothing i¦m wearing.
Fix that and will be happy, eve is harsh, but non destructable item, that makes even a carebear notice it breaks eves ethos.
Real money transactions turns eve into vanity carebears on line, risk free since Incarna.
CCP Shadow 24/06/2010 17:30:40: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. October 2010 CSM Virtual Goods unveiled
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:47:00 -
[934]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Asyrdin Harate There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?
CCP also said "there are no plans to change plans", which addresses your comment but we didn't put it in the statements because at some point it just becomes ridiculous. If you are not willing to believe them, you won't believe them no matter what they say.
I'm not willing to believe them but I'd have been more inclined to extend them some credit if they had written/spoken about their vision for EVE and how pay for advantage was not what they wanted, how they were against it and would not take the game in that direction. They could have even said "If however EVE starts to decline or lose revenue then we will look to what can continue to save it but short of something terrible like that no pay for advantages/services or 'pay to win' features will be implemented".
Part of this whole problem is their terrible communication, ignoring the CSM, what I'd call arrogance so they should be more honest and forthcoming with us from now on, ESPECIALLY NOW. They had PLENTY of time to craft such a thought to convey what they care and think about their product, instead we got them tip toeing about the NEX, that was a real disappointment for the 'better communication' we were supposed to be getting.
Also thank you for engaging with so many people in this thread.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:53:00 -
[935]
An adequate compromise I guess, not more, not less.
However, the fact that CCPs main investor has known russian mafia ties (which apparently wasn't spoken of in the summit), is enough for me to not give CCP one more cent. ________________________ CCP: Where fixing bugs is a luxury, not an obligation. |
Juggalo Stazz
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 11:59:00 -
[936]
Ok, for the time being it is over. Stop trolling the forums, get back into the game and do what you like to whether it be mission running, incursions, mining or melting faces in null sec. Just play the ****ing game. Life will go on. Drama over for now. Enjoy yourselves in game.
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Halgirsand Verneraal
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:09:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Ordon Gundar Is no-one else concerned by the wording of "..game breaking items, like ships with different stats to those in game.."??
That is not the issue! The issue is that ANY ship, or ANYTHING currently available on the in-game market should NOT be available for purchase on NEX. Not just super ships!
I still think there is a lot of wiggle room on these statements.
Agreed. For those who have difficulty visualizing graphs:
Buying a ship in NEX means the money goes to CCP and a ship is in game without being produced. Buying a ship in PLEX means the money goes to CCP and a ship is in game.
The difference is production breaks.
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Anuiruson Bennington
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:14:00 -
[938]
I think that a way should be found into Jove space where the capsuleer can enjoy the T4 and higher ships along with the luxuries that are obviously being held back by the Jovians from the capsuleer's of New Eden.
The day is coming.
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Atij Artua
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:25:00 -
[939]
Originally by: Alejan GerakhOh, I'm sorry. Someone trying to be sincere, and there even being a video to display the body language of sincerity, is obviously "UNACCEPTABLE!"
[quote
Did we see the same video as you?
It could be accused of being a lot of things but sincere isn't one of them.
The video was scripted - admittedly very badly.
The 'discussion' the 2 reps had was embarrassing to watch.... CCP: "oh you did so well at the talks" CSM: "So did you, you were great" CCP: "and you really stood up to us" CSM: "but you really listened it was wonderful" Viewer: "get a room guys!"
Body language: all through the vid the CCP guy looked terrified - not of the camera but as if he was afraid the CSM rep would say the wrong thing, he only relaxed when it was almost over. And the CSM rep was preening so much I thought his ego was going to apply for statehood, if it's accepted, it would be the fifth-largest (to paraphrase Willard Scott).
Talk about a party political broadcast - no substance, no information and plenty creepy.
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Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:28:00 -
[940]
They're removing PLEX from the game!! And the character bazaar as well!!
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:31:00 -
[941]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Asyrdin Harate There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?
CCP also said "there are no plans to change plans", which addresses your comment but we didn't put it in the statements because at some point it just becomes ridiculous. If you are not willing to believe them, you won't believe them no matter what they say.
So does the whole CSM believe that Fearless was worthless toilet reading?
Has Seleene suddenly about faced his opinion?
You have no doubts in your mind despite the tone of Hilmar's email that followed the player's reaction to Fearless?
Also saying there have never been plans is such an appalling lie given the fact that it was announced to Eurogamer that they were going to implement PLEX for remaps last year.
To me something just doesn't smell right here.
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Strure
Vikings In Space
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:39:00 -
[942]
Edited by: Strure on 03/07/2011 12:43:47
Originally by: Halgirsand Verneraal
Originally by: Ordon Gundar
Buying a ship in NEX means the money goes to CCP and a ship is in game without being produced. Buying a ship in PLEX means the money goes to CCP and a ship is in game.
The difference is production breaks.
Also remember there is a market for PLEX and those buying and selling are subsidizing others who generate the ISK. Those buying the PLEX with cash are encouraging the industry of those generating the ISK. So two people are trading different advantages, but the net is still zero (which you point out).
Also, because there are only small scale laws (through alliances, and treaty), the lack of default penalty makes raising seed capital rather difficult in Eve. The ability to use the PLEX system to raise capital, also stimulates industry, as does buying a ship you really can't afford and getting it smashed.
Anyway, I'm satisfied that CCP heard the player message loud and clear and watched 5% of accounts unsubbed over just the threat of future purchasable advantage.
Their ideas about player engagement were a bit whacked. The vanity item that means the most to me, is the fanfest tshirt. Not because I paid $ for it (and not directly), but because I did travel and participate in meetings to help develop the game. I might pay $30k for a yacht, because that's what it costs to have good boat to sail and cruise because of physical parts that are expensive. Simple virtual items that cost $70 are an obvious poor value, and a total rip-off. I'd never pay money to encourage more non-virtual screwing. Let them eat dust.
And speaking of Dust, the CSM should be involved in how it affects Eve. The idea of a connected spin-off is great, but it seems odd that CCP doesn't really want to attract the Eve players to it....No mention of PC port. It seems Dust could be an effective hook for new Eve players, but you need them in that universe to make a real social bridge, and w/o that it seems you have the typical 2 year max console game cycle.
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Lord Zekk
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2011.07.03 12:51:00 -
[943]
@ CCP Navigator.
So far so good, but this is just the first step in the right direction. There is still a long way to go, but a good start. Communication is the key and I'm sure the CSP harped on that.
A lot of the mess can be avoided you communicate with the community, you have the tools. I know the communinity can be immature raging ******s but we love the game and only want to see it do better.
So far what have seen is that it takes EXTREME rage, riots and a lot of account cancellations for us to get your attention. Please show us that rationally talking to you and pointing things out works better.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:01:00 -
[944]
Originally by: Lord Zekk So far what have seen is that it takes EXTREME rage, riots and a lot of account cancellations for us to get your attention. Please show us that rationally talking to you and pointing things out works better.
It never has and it never will.
It's always the same cycle, ignore the players until they kick up a huge storm, then finally acknowledge them while whining at how immature they are to kick up a big storm.
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Cebraio
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:13:00 -
[945]
Confirming that this has not become a threadnought.
Well done CCP. Finally some people can calm down a bit.
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Zeta Kalin
Large Rodent Hunters
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:18:00 -
[946]
My answer -- I do have a few expensive suits. However I'm pretty sure none is more expensive than an aircraft carrier.
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Iskandara Cho
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:20:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Cebraio Confirming that this has not become a threadnought.
Well done CCP. Finally some people can calm down a bit.
What you call 'calm' I call 'resigned' as in
I am resigned to the fact that CCP has none of my interests at heart and so will no longer waste my energy, or my money, hoping that they will change.
Sorry, but all they have given us is weasel words.
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deepspace 1 Preldent
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:40:00 -
[948]
More lies to cover the original lies.If we cant make it mine it or invent it why is it here?If u really want it seed the blueprints.As for unfair advantage what do we call the ships given as tournament prizes?It simple to fix if u wanted to fix it Make CQ optional. Make BPO's for boots monacles etc. Fix the ongoing game bugs then change dynamics to fit with the other games u want us to get involved with. Feller's we may fly and fight in Space but it aint rocket science what we here for and it aint the pretty boots.
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:41:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Originally by: Grey Griff
Originally by: Sorgenbinder "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
One word...
PLEX
ehm no, it does't give you special ability or magical ship with uber stats, it just redistributes ingame resources which in the first place can't be aquired with plex, so there is no advantage over investment of time
So spending real-world cash and converting it into in-game money wouldn't give me an advantage...?
Yes, Plex = P2W, but, only in a very minute way... on top of which PLEX (until AUR came along) fed into the in-game economy so everyone won from it's use, not just a single player...
for example, you can buy 3 GTCs, convert them into 6 plex, sell them on the market and get enough isk to buy enough stuff to put together a really nice Rattlesnake(or another ship), but the caveat to it is that unless you've invested the "time" to train the skills to fly the ship, put the rigs on it and use everything, then all you have is a pile of really nice stuff sitting in your item box, or if you have a friend who can put the ship together for you, then you have a really nice ship sitting in the hangar that you can't get in and fly yet.
So the point is valid, there is no real/tangible advantage over the investment of time in the game aside from having pretty stuff that you can't use until that time's been invested.
if MTs change that with SP or some other type gameplay changing items, then RM would/could give someone a decided advantage, but that's a different discussion than just the effect that PLEX has now.
o/ K.S.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:43:00 -
[950]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Originally by: Asyrdin Harate There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
We all know plans can change...i mean how often have we changed our skill plan. CCP you still haven't said you won't do it just that you have no plans for it right now, but how about tommorow?
CCP also said "there are no plans to change plans", which addresses your comment but we didn't put it in the statements because at some point it just becomes ridiculous. If you are not willing to believe them, you won't believe them no matter what they say.
So does the whole CSM believe that Fearless was worthless toilet reading?
Has Seleene suddenly about faced his opinion?
You have no doubts in your mind despite the tone of Hilmar's email that followed the player's reaction to Fearless?
Also saying there have never been plans is such an appalling lie given the fact that it was announced to Eurogamer that they were going to implement PLEX for remaps last year.
To me something just doesn't smell right here.
While I don't believe it was "worthless toilet reading", I also don't believe it reflected the policy of the company either. Even if that was the case, no matter what, we can spend 2 days calling them liars it won't accomplish nothing.
Now, we got assured there is no plan, we had been shown no plans in the past, we have sent a strong signal that any plans would be "poorly received". We have 2 choices: call them liars and be dissatisfied no matter what they say or accept what they say and see if they stick to their word. We have seen of no implementations of such things until now, I haven't seen anything in that direction either at the moment, so we'll go on...
I have "reserves", not doubts. Let me just say that I believe them when they say what they say, and I'll keep a close eye to make sure they don't change.
PLEX for remaps and other non "in-game things" are frankly grey areas. They're not gold ammo or ships or pay to win. I think it is healthy to have the ability to discuss those, because some of them can frankly be good ideas. Now, I doubt you'll find anyone in the CSM who is tougher on the divide between what is acceptable and what isn't (seriously). ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:46:00 -
[951]
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Could one of the CSM members please clarify why all of CCP's statements about MTs only say "in the NeX store."
Could they also comment on why CCP wrote "game-breaking" instead of "game-affecting". I want to ignore the obvious subjective at this moment so I can point out that it is also superfluous. Like creating a function in a computer program called "ProcessData()," CCP's wording tells us nothing. I'm suggesting that it was deliberate.
I don't mean to be trying to sound big with big words; I genuinely want to someone to realise that it was superfluous. It is taken for granted that if CCP say to themselves "This will break the game" then they won't release it.
So I would like those 2 things answered. Otherwise we are left wondering 1, "What about MTs outside the NeX store?" and 2, "What about any MTs that are game-affecting but not CCP's idea of game-breaking?"
Why is the CCP statement vague? Why is the CSM statement so clear? I assume the CSM statement is based on other communications from CCP, because CCP's statement isn't clear enough to support CSM's.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 13:56:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo Why is the CCP statement vague? Why is the CSM statement so clear? I assume the CSM statement is based on other communications from CCP, because CCP's statement isn't clear enough to support CSM's.
Asking the question is answering it!
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Sorgenbinder
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:00:00 -
[953]
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Originally by: Grey Griff
Originally by: Sorgenbinder "The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time."
One word...
PLEX
ehm no, it does't give you special ability or magical ship with uber stats, it just redistributes ingame resources which in the first place can't be aquired with plex, so there is no advantage over investment of time
So spending real-world cash and converting it into in-game money wouldn't give me an advantage...?
Yes, Plex = P2W, but, only in a very minute way... on top of which PLEX (until AUR came along) fed into the in-game economy so everyone won from it's use, not just a single player...
for example, you can buy 3 GTCs, convert them into 6 plex, sell them on the market and get enough isk to buy enough stuff to put together a really nice Rattlesnake(or another ship), but the caveat to it is that unless you've invested the "time" to train the skills to fly the ship, put the rigs on it and use everything, then all you have is a pile of really nice stuff sitting in your item box, or if you have a friend who can put the ship together for you, then you have a really nice ship sitting in the hangar that you can't get in and fly yet.
So the point is valid, there is no real/tangible advantage over the investment of time in the game aside from having pretty stuff that you can't use until that time's been invested.
if MTs change that with SP or some other type gameplay changing items, then RM would/could give someone a decided advantage, but that's a different discussion than just the effect that PLEX has now.
o/ K.S.
Perhaps I'm blind. Perhaps I'm stupid. Perhaps I'm (insert your own preference here) but...
How in the hell can having lots of "stuff" not be an advantage over NOT having lots of "stuff". Yes, you need to invest time into training to use the "stuff", but you should also (in my opinion) have to invest time into earning the money to buy the "stuff". Not having to invest that time means having an advantage.
A game is defined by its rules. To play outside of those rules is to not play the game. And whilst PLEX are legal within the rules, as I said in a previous post, they are not in the SPIRIT of the game: they are a device to prevent or ameliorate a real-world intrusion on the game (i.e. ISK sellers). No, we don't live in a perfect world and yes, ISK sellers are always going to be there. It just saddens me that CCP has decided that the best way to beat them is to join them.
PLEX are and always will be a way of buying advantage, or advancement, using real-world money. |
Chrysanthemum Korik
Monocles Of Death
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:02:00 -
[954]
I'm surprised how many people are thanking CCP and saying this is resolved without CCP committing to not turn EvE into a cash-shop driven game.
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Menenda Tararena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:08:00 -
[955]
You useless piece of CSM monkeys went to Iceland without discussing the underlying core to the frustration we have seen recently dident you?
It never occurred to either you or CCP that the real reason people got so aggravated now, is that we havent seen any real improvements to eve for several years?
All we got is fixes to stuff that if they spent the money the eve subscriber pays should have been fixed ages ago. And then as a final push over the edge we got this piece of mindnumbing useless captains quarter.
And now you utterly useless not worth a dime CSM sits and sweettalks with CCP pretending to represent the community. Bah, i wont even spit on you, thats how low i think of you.
Politicans, and their wannabees, theres a special place in hell for you.
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J'Anik Cora
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:22:00 -
[956]
Hmm well, those statements, belaboured though they may have been, mitigate my worries/fears quite nicely, for now. Now it's up to CCP to keep to their word, and up to the CSM to see to it that they do.
A special thank you goes out to the CSM for flying out there on such short notice and discuss the "srs bizniz" of internet spaceshippery.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:27:00 -
[957]
Originally by: RougeOperator Another BS CSM meeting with little to show other then the CSM member's got treated like kings for not doing the will of the players or taking a hardline stance against what CCP was doing.
Thanks for the failure guys.
But they did if you bothered to pay attention, such as on Twitter or their blogs. Oh, wait, forum 'warriors' don't give a $#!t about Twitter or blogs. If it's not on the forums, it doesn't count. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Ilmunel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:27:00 -
[958]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
PLEX for remaps and other non "in-game things" are frankly grey areas. They're not gold ammo or ships or pay to win. I think it is healthy to have the ability to discuss those, because some of them can frankly be good ideas. Now, I doubt you'll find anyone in the CSM who is tougher on the divide between what is acceptable and what isn't (seriously).
PLEX for remaps in't gray area it gives advantage, and any sp selling for money gives advantage and as well it breaks mini profession for those who rising chars for selling
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:35:00 -
[959]
Meanwhile on Perpetuum Online:
Yesterday one of the Dev's for PO DJ'd a 3 hour set for us to listen too while we rocked robots. He was in general chat with everyone online playing during this interacting with us like human beings. If you are looking for a game where the executives still understand humility, come try a trial.
http://www.perpetuum-online.com
It's cheaper than eve too, and no $68 Mega-Transactions!
$68 is more than I spend on food in a week. Damn anyone that charges that much for imaginary items during an economic depression. Let them eat cake!
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:43:00 -
[960]
Originally by: Inspiration Edited by: Inspiration on 03/07/2011 09:11:24
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: The Offerer But what advantage? It's a win-win-win scenario. It's so cool that it's bigger than bi-winning... it's tri-winning.
Except that he is wrong, he describes how PLEX works now. While AUR is derived from PLEX, the real life currency competes feeding it with the already existing use of PLEX. Buying game time, meaning higher PLEX prices and likely less active accounts!
So that win/win/win, turns into a win/tie/loose situation. Where the win is the buyer, the tie is CCP and the looser is everyone not involved in the transaction. All based on how rich you are in RL, so it is detrimental for the game as a whole.
Yes, but his post wasn't about AURUM, it was about PLEX. However, yours is, and I agree with it completely, [u]if it comes to pass[/i]. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
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HyperZerg
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:44:00 -
[961]
I have 3 questions regarding this whole debate.
1. Why MT in the first place ? Greed?
2. Why THAT many open backdoors in the statement? Buying a Titan per NEX is non-game-breaking but a non-vanity item. Also, gold ammo in a NEXX shop is still possible.
3. The internal newsletter contained plans for faction-standing sales per NEX. How can you say there were NEVER plans for it ?
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:51:00 -
[962]
Edited by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath on 03/07/2011 14:55:39
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Yes, Plex = P2W, but, only in a very minute way... on top of which PLEX (until AUR came along) fed into the in-game economy so everyone won from it's use, not just a single player...
for example, you can buy 3 GTCs, convert them into 6 plex, sell them on the market and get enough isk to buy enough stuff to put together a really nice Rattlesnake(or another ship), but the caveat to it is that unless you've invested the "time" to train the skills to fly the ship, put the rigs on it and use everything, then all you have is a pile of really nice stuff sitting in your item box, or if you have a friend who can put the ship together for you, then you have a really nice ship sitting in the hangar that you can't get in and fly yet.
So the point is valid, there is no real/tangible advantage over the investment of time in the game aside from having pretty stuff that you can't use until that time's been invested.
if MTs change that with SP or some other type gameplay changing items, then RM would/could give someone a decided advantage, but that's a different discussion than just the effect that PLEX has now.
o/ K.S.
Perhaps I'm blind. Perhaps I'm stupid. Perhaps I'm (insert your own preference here) but...
How in the hell can having lots of "stuff" not be an advantage over NOT having lots of "stuff". Yes, you need to invest time into training to use the "stuff", but you should also (in my opinion) have to invest time into earning the money to buy the "stuff". Not having to invest that time means having an advantage.
A game is defined by its rules. To play outside of those rules is to not play the game. And whilst PLEX are legal within the rules, as I said in a previous post, they are not in the SPIRIT of the game: they are a device to prevent or ameliorate a real-world intrusion on the game (i.e. ISK sellers). No, we don't live in a perfect world and yes, ISK sellers are always going to be there. It just saddens me that CCP has decided that the best way to beat them is to join them.
PLEX are and always will be a way of buying advantage, or advancement, using real-world money.
No, you're not either as far as I can tell...
It does give someone the advantage of being able to have stuff quicker, but honestly that's where it stops, if the player can't "use" the stuff then the stuff isn't doing them any good unless they want to resell it for a profit and come out ahead because of the original PLEX purchase and conversion, but that is also one of a multitude of scenarios where the player can invest RM into the process and win-ish, but not win in the sense of P2W as in "get the stuff, buy the SP, hop in the ship and go pWn without the time investment".
That's why I'm more than happy to concede that it does give someone an advantage, just not a very big one.
Now if you want to talk about P2W in the sense of being able to buy as much SP as your wallet will allow and circumventing the entire "training" skills and learning aspect of the game?, or being able to do an MT for a ship that has more slots than it's player built in-game counterpart?, special ammo, special standings, special abilities that aren't available anywhere else ect ect?, sure, that's P2W in the sense of the arguments being presented in this entire issue.
I even agree with your statements, I just don't place the same importance on *some of them* that you do, nor do I look at the current GTC>PLEX>ISK process as being "that" important or effective enough to really be considered P2W in relation to those MT type P2W scenarios(above) because of the effect(s) they could/would have on the balance of the game.
o/ K.S.
*edit added text for clarity*
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:53:00 -
[963]
Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:54:17
Originally by: Noel Tiberius I was a bit dissapointed though, I had hoped for more info about the future of EVE. Maybe something for a new devblog? A part of the player base feels neglected, and it would be a good idea to sum up all the plans for the next 6-12 months.
I whole-heartedly agree. I could have sworn we had that last year leading up to Incursion - which was a pretty damn good expansion, in my opinion. Admittedly, I haven't actually experienced an incursion, but I think Incursion and Apocrypha were important investments in Internet Spaceships (AKA Flying in Space to CCP)... hell, Dominion was certainly a sight better than the damn 'Starbase spam' Sov system, even though they still don't have it quite right.
Suffice to say, I think the people whining that the last 5 or whatever number expansions weren't worth a damn need to re-evaluate some things. Sure, they weren't great, but at least the majority of them did, actually, focus on Internet Spaceships. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:53:00 -
[964]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel While I don't believe it was "worthless toilet reading", I also don't believe it reflected the policy of the company either. Even if that was the case, no matter what, we can spend 2 days calling them liars it won't accomplish nothing.
Now, we got assured there is no plan, we had been shown no plans in the past, we have sent a strong signal that any plans would be "poorly received". We have 2 choices: call them liars and be dissatisfied no matter what they say or accept what they say and see if they stick to their word. We have seen of no implementations of such things until now, I haven't seen anything in that direction either at the moment, so we'll go on...
I have "reserves", not doubts. Let me just say that I believe them when they say what they say, and I'll keep a close eye to make sure they don't change.
PLEX for remaps and other non "in-game things" are frankly grey areas. They're not gold ammo or ships or pay to win. I think it is healthy to have the ability to discuss those, because some of them can frankly be good ideas. Now, I doubt you'll find anyone in the CSM who is tougher on the divide between what is acceptable and what isn't (seriously).
Thank you very much for clarifying this. It sounds like a much more honest appraisal of the situation than what the CSM was quoted as saying in the blog.
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Ilmunel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:56:00 -
[965]
Originally by: HyperZerg I have 3 questions regarding this whole debate.
1. Why MT in the first place ? Greed?
just cus peole will pay more to play, they'll pay for their subscription as well as for smth else in game, and developers try everything to make you buy this smth, for example take away hangar view from you and put you in cq even though it is incomplete, just to make money, that is the problem, that game developer shifts to squeeze money when there is MT, and while vanity items is lesser evil it is still evil, so just imagine what mess can it become with non vanity
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 14:58:00 -
[966]
Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:58:48
Originally by: Ankh (1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
Sadly, if Trebor's blog is any indication, you can't, actually, reasonably expect that sort of answer. No matter how much CCP may want to actually tell us that. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Krystal Vernet
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:05:00 -
[967]
As I'm severely hard of hearing, I'd like to see an official English transcript of the video as well. Whenever you get around to it, please? :) I can catch most of what's being said in the video through lip reading and body language to figure which sounds I'm hearing, but I'm afraid I'm missing enough to not get the full experience of what's being said. CCP has done an excellent job of captioning videos like this in the past and I was hoping to see that particular bit of excellence carried through here.
For now, while CCP's written statement does contain some weasel words and vagueness (as well as its tight focus), the combination of it and the CSM's statement (clear, covers most of the apparent concerns) is enough to keep me from unsubscribing right now. I am going to keep a close eye on your actions from now on, though. I knew clothing would come in through the NeX store and when I heard about the Isukone ship, I was a little surprised, but that sort of ship is okay as long as the stats and training are identical to its fully in-game cousin. Then it's purely a choice of "Do I want a ship with this paint scheme or just get a regular ship?"
The pricing being another concern, I'm anticipating the dev blog with your explanation of that keenly. $60 dollar monocles are unprecedented, particularly in a trouble economy, and make me worry about what CCP plans for the NeX store are. As long as available items are strictly vanity and you can secure those items via ISK in some manner, the pricing, while worrying, is ... okay.
Oh, and one last request (which I know will be an unlikely outcome of this) - No weasel wording. I realize that your company has professional public relations and marketing staff and weasel words are bread and butter of those two industries, but particularly concerning anything to do with microtransactions (or megatransactions, as the case may be), please give the respect your community needs by using clear, unambiguous, and precise wording. Preferably, use the same wording you would use to describe to your developers on what you intend to see being sold in the NeX store and beyond. There is a huge difference between statements like "We have no plans to do X" and "We will not do X". In either case, though, whatever you say will be eclipsed by what you do.
I want to support CCP's development of Eve Online. It's a wonderful game, as cutthroat and mean as the real world, and astonishingly deep for an internet spaceships game. CCP is also one of the few companies with an MMORPG that actually at least attempts to give that RPG aspect some support, which I want to see contine (but not at the expense of hitting our wallets for the NeX store). The chronicles, the in-game events, and the active encouragement of getting people to look deeper into your game lore are all things I love seeing and that's what encourages me to resub every time I have to leave for a bit. No other game I've played is like this, and that's why I worry deeply about CCP's plans regarding the NeX store and microtransactions. Greed is good, but money is ultimately ephemeral. A good game with a solid community can leave a lasting mark far beyond their usual means.
Anyways, thanks for your patience if you read the long post. And thank you, CCP, for Eve Online. Even if something occurs where I feel obligated to leave your game, I will always have good memories of playing it. Even if I get terribly bored with it sometimes. :)
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Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:10:00 -
[968]
Edited by: Grey Griff on 03/07/2011 15:10:49
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Sadly, if Trebor's blog is any indication, you can't, actually, reasonably expect that sort of answer. No matter how much CCP may want to actually tell us that.
Just forget about p2w, the thing is that there should be no game influencing items or services for money and it can be pretty simple answered. Trebor himself lost on the way. here is comment that i posted in his blog it is still under suspend it seems
"You stretching things, and stuck on p2w definition, thing is that there
should be no non vanity items that need money to appear in the game, it is
game breaking, it includes various bpc, cus while it seems using game
economy it still bypassing a lot of things,it can make obtaining of bpo
t2bpc all the invention process and faction bpc meaningless, it still
directly influences on the game and in this case it gives advantage to
industrialyst who uses it over all other, plex just redistribute things
between players and it isn't game breaking, while sp for any sort of isk
aurum or plex will brake whole mini profession in eve of people who raising
chars to sell them for isk, the same with standings, so the problem is not
even p2w but anything that may influnce on the game with real money in the
beginning, it make meaningless to play in eve and try to achieve smth, if
you know that really worthy thing's may be brought here in the beginning
with money only, it disappoint and breaks involvment into game, i don't want
to play in such eve"
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:13:00 -
[969]
Originally by: Kerrisone I'm not willing to believe them but I'd have been more inclined to extend them some credit if they had written/spoken about their vision for EVE and how pay for advantage was not what they wanted, how they were against it and would not take the game in that direction. They could have even said "If however EVE starts to decline or lose revenue then we will look to what can continue to save it but short of something terrible like that no pay for advantages/services or 'pay to win' features will be implemented".
Part of this whole problem is their terrible communication, ignoring the CSM, what I'd call arrogance so they should be more honest and forthcoming with us from now on, ESPECIALLY NOW. They had PLENTY of time to craft such a thought to convey what they care and think about their product, instead we got them tip toeing about the NEX, that was a real disappointment for the 'better communication' we were supposed to be getting.
Also thank you for engaging with so many people in this thread.
Damn straight. Now you're talking sense! If Zulu did believe as such, he really should have written it in there to say as much. I'm willing to believe he does, at least based on CSM feedback, but it would have helped for it to have been mentioned in the CCP part of the statement.
Hopefully the Press Conference on Tuesday will help address some of these issues. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:16:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:58:48
Originally by: Ankh (1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
Sadly, if Trebor's blog is any indication, you can't, actually, reasonably expect that sort of answer. No matter how much CCP may want to actually tell us that.
Trebor's blog pretty much hits the nail on the head in regard to what CCP can and can't say and why they can't say it. it's in pretty simple straightforward verbiage and makes a ton of sense because it explains the concept of perception in relation to one item vs another.
For those who haven't read Trebor's blog, I invite you to do so, it makes a ton of sense.
one person there had a slight issue with the language used by the Devs/CCP in regard to getting a solid answer, and that's understandable, but we have to remember this:
(Copied/pasted/quoted from the blog) Actually, Trebor's right though, CCP cannot make an absolute statement if for no other reason than perception because your perception and mine are different than that of other folks, so in order for CCP to make any absolute statement, they would have to figuratively paint themselves into a corner that they couldn't get out of.
I'm certain though that Trebor and the rest of our CSMs will step up if there's something brought out that doesn't fit CCP's idea of a game-changing item, but fits ours... (end C/P)
that is the bottom line, CCP will likely never give us a solid answer that satisfies "everyone" simply because of the "perception" factor.
o/ K.S.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:21:00 -
[971]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Lord Zekk So far what have seen is that it takes EXTREME rage, riots and a lot of account cancellations for us to get your attention. Please show us that rationally talking to you and pointing things out works better.
It never has and it never will.
It's always the same cycle, ignore the players until they kick up a huge storm, then finally acknowledge them while whining at how immature they are to kick up a big storm.
Have we had them whining about our (excuse the generalizing) immaturity before this incident? I honestly want to know. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
shar Depran
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:23:00 -
[972]
Thanks to the CSM delegates for passing on the concerns of the community to CCP, and thanks to them for actually organizing the summit at such short notice and sitting around the table for what reading the issued statement I would think was a full and frank exchange of views.
As to the statement itself, well there are a number of issues brought up in it that indicate that CCP still intend to force CQ and WiS down players throats no matter what the resultant exodus this will so obviously cause will bring and while concerns were raised by the CSM delegates on this front it would appear that CCP Flying Scotsman deftly sidestepped the issue with his announcement that æShip SpinningÆ would remain, that is until we can find a way to force you into a corner and make you enter this æDuke NukemÆ type world of fantasy we are heading for.
Sadly all seem to have missed the point here as they sat politely round the table, Players in EVE play EVE because they æDO NOT WANT TO PLAY WoW.Æà.. got it!. Write that down on your oversized CCP issue foreheads please.
As such the option to opt out of this section of this game should and I would go as far as to say must be included so players can retain the hangar environment if they so choose so allowing the once fluid play afforded before this ridiculous addition to the game, A HOLOGRAPHIC option is not an option here guys, docked means docked and not strutting around some scruffy station corridor in fancy clothes and high heels.
The statement also provided insight in to the Trinket stores future inventory, but again neatly sidestepped the issue of game changing items being sold there, I called it a Trinket store because that is just what it should be, fancy goods for vain players that want to tart up there toons, not so called Gold ammo or special purpose ships ect, design these things in your coffee breaks if you must, or better still accept idea from players on the designs and if you get blown up you loose em, simply game pay really, what EVE was always about.
In closing a note to CCP ZULU, please take the crayons off those script kiddies you employ and put them to work were they should have been all along, BUG FIXING the crappy code they wrote in the first place, and no cookies for them or you until they do.
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Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:23:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:58:48
Originally by: Ankh (1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
Sadly, if Trebor's blog is any indication, you can't, actually, reasonably expect that sort of answer. No matter how much CCP may want to actually tell us that.
Trebor's blog pretty much hits the nail on the head in regard to what CCP can and can't say and why they can't say it. it's in pretty simple straightforward verbiage and makes a ton of sense because it explains the concept of perception in relation to one item vs another.
For those who haven't read Trebor's blog, I invite you to do so, it makes a ton of sense.
one person there had a slight issue with the language used by the Devs/CCP in regard to getting a solid answer, and that's understandable, but we have to remember this:
(Copied/pasted/quoted from the blog) Actually, Trebor's right though, CCP cannot make an absolute statement if for no other reason than perception because your perception and mine are different than that of other folks, so in order for CCP to make any absolute statement, they would have to figuratively paint themselves into a corner that they couldn't get out of.
I'm certain though that Trebor and the rest of our CSMs will step up if there's something brought out that doesn't fit CCP's idea of a game-changing item, but fits ours... (end C/P)
that is the bottom line, CCP will likely never give us a solid answer that satisfies "everyone" simply because of the "perception" factor.
o/ K.S.
the thing is that there should be no game influencing items or services for money and it can be pretty simple answered.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:24:00 -
[974]
Originally by: Zeta Kalin My answer
Originally by: Iskandara Cho
Originally by: Cebraio Confirming that this has not become a threadnought.
Well done CCP. Finally some people can calm down a bit.
What you call 'calm' I call 'resigned' as in
I am resigned to the fact that CCP has none of my interests at heart and so will no longer waste my energy, or my money, hoping that they will change.
Sorry, but all they have given us is weasel words.
"Arnar, as Senior Producer of EVE, is on record as saying he opposes the introduction of game-breaking stuff like P2W into EVE." ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:33:00 -
[975]
Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 15:43:25
Originally by: Menenda Tararena You useless piece of CSM monkeys went to Iceland without discussing the underlying core to the frustration we have seen recently dident you?
It never occurred to either you or CCP that the real reason people got so aggravated now, is that we havent seen any real improvements to eve for several years?
All we got is fixes to stuff that if they spent the money the eve subscriber pays should have been fixed ages ago. And then as a final push over the edge we got this piece of mindnumbing useless captains quarter.
And now you utterly useless not worth a dime CSM sits and sweettalks with CCP pretending to represent the community. Bah, i wont even spit on you, thats how low i think of you.
Politicans, and their wannabees, theres a special place in hell for you.
Go read CCP Navigator's post. Here, I'll actually link it to you since I happen to have that one somewhere convenient.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1544681&page=10#282
Read the second-to-last paragraph.
You're welcome. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Lord Hulag
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:41:00 -
[976]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:54:17 hell, Dominion was certainly a sight better than the damn 'Starbase spam' Sov system, even though they still don't have it quite right.
ahahahahaahaha
no.
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Kvetha Fricai
GeoCorp. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:41:00 -
[977]
ephasis added to quoted posts
Quote: Posted - 2010.06.24 17:23:00 - [20]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: Clolo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has me all confused, is CCP going to start offering some sort of Microtransaction for SP? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.
Quote: Posted - 2010.06.24 17:13:00 - [7]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40 Just for clarification, the skillpoints CCP will be giving pilots to make up for the extended downtime in this case is not tied to microtransactions.
Editing to add this: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.
So, in one short year, we went from "no plans" for MT to "deploying" MT? Is this what you call truth now or then? Get it straight CCP, tell the truth or lose the subs. I want to have it right now, in writing, that you will NEVER introduce items in the NEX that will IN ANY WAY effect game play period. No exotic ammo, ships etc. Put it out there as we are waiting to see and hear it.
[url=http://kb.eve-42.com?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=131930] [/url] |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:43:00 -
[978]
Originally by: HyperZerg I have 3 questions regarding this whole debate.
1. Why MT in the first place ? Greed?
2. Why THAT many open backdoors in the statement? Buying a Titan per NEX is non-game-breaking but a non-vanity item. Also, gold ammo in a NEXX shop is still possible.
3. The internal newsletter contained plans for faction-standing sales per NEX. How can you say there were NEVER plans for it ?
Because, as the CSM seem to have expressed and I am willing to maybe believe or at least have only reservations on but not quite doubt (to take a cue from Meissa's terms), the newsletter is bull$#!t even to CCP Devs. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:45:00 -
[979]
Originally by: Kvetha Fricai So, in one short year, we went from "no plans" for MT to "deploying" MT? Is this what you call truth now or then? Get it straight CCP, tell the truth or lose the subs. I want to have it right now, in writing, that you will NEVER introduce items in the NEX that will IN ANY WAY effect game play period. No exotic ammo, ships etc. Put it out there as we are waiting to see and hear it.
See below. Cry some more. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:46:00 -
[980]
Originally by: Grey Griff
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh Edited by: Alejan Gerakh on 03/07/2011 14:58:48
Originally by: Ankh (1) The statement that "CCP has no plans to introduce 'Gold Ammo' or 'Gold ships' in the Aurum store" needs to be stronger imho. I'd like to see something like: "EVE will NEVER have pay-to-win options in any shape or format".
Sadly, if Trebor's blog is any indication, you can't, actually, reasonably expect that sort of answer. No matter how much CCP may want to actually tell us that.
Trebor's blog pretty much hits the nail on the head in regard to what CCP can and can't say and why they can't say it. it's in pretty simple straightforward verbiage and makes a ton of sense because it explains the concept of perception in relation to one item vs another.
For those who haven't read Trebor's blog, I invite you to do so, it makes a ton of sense.
one person there had a slight issue with the language used by the Devs/CCP in regard to getting a solid answer, and that's understandable, but we have to remember this:
(Copied/pasted/quoted from the blog) Actually, Trebor's right though, CCP cannot make an absolute statement if for no other reason than perception because your perception and mine are different than that of other folks, so in order for CCP to make any absolute statement, they would have to figuratively paint themselves into a corner that they couldn't get out of.
I'm certain though that Trebor and the rest of our CSMs will step up if there's something brought out that doesn't fit CCP's idea of a game-changing item, but fits ours... (end C/P)
that is the bottom line, CCP will likely never give us a solid answer that satisfies "everyone" simply because of the "perception" factor.
o/ K.S.
the thing is that there should be no game influencing items or services for money and it can be pretty simple answered.
while both you and I would like it to be that "cut and dried" it never can be and simply because of the differences in what we might or might not perceive to be a game changing item, or a "gameplay" changing item.
CCP does things that affect gameplay all the time though, take for example the removal of learning skills and the reimbursement of skill-points... Players who had all of the learning skills trained to 5 got over 5m skillpoints, players who didn't, got less. then couple that with fixed base attributes. many players who had their learning skills up, took an attributes hit, while many who didn't got a gain out of that change. you can rightfully argue the point that the players who got the most SP given back in the pool did so because they took the time to train those skills in the beginning, but you can also rightfully argue that the players who hadn't bothered to train those from the start were given an overall unfair advantage over long time players who had bothered to train them because now the base attributes were the same.
Then there's the factor of those who did train them really got more out of the deal because the SP pool size reflected that training time while those who didn't didn't get as much for the same reason, and you could have a very long debate over the entire issue if you wanted to, but the thing it comes down to is how we perceive the issue and honestly, expecting an answer that will satisfy everyone, or expecting that answer to be a simple yes, or no is no different.
You, me, CCP, or even someone else will most likely have a different view of the issue every time in relation to our own thought processes, experiences, agenda and/or perceptions, that's why I say/think that we will never get a simple yes or no answer out of them.
:) o/ K.S.
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:47:00 -
[981]
Originally by: Grey Griff the thing is that there should be no game influencing items or services for money and it can be pretty simple answered.
Like PLEX? That's pretty game-influencing, purchased for money.
I'm not saying PLEX is a problem, necessarily. I'm just pointing out what applies based on your qualifiers. See how hard it is to get the right terms? ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Azanee Yarabokin
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Posted - 2011.07.03 15:55:00 -
[982]
So, after all this we get some weasel words, Zulu and the Goon congratulating each other on how reasonable they've been, and that's about it. The myriad things wrong with Incarna may be fixed at some vague future date, or they may not. Some "lower priced" garbage may be coming to the NEX at some point in time, or it may not. No apology from Hilmar, and no rollback on the outrageous NEX prices. "Staying the course" indeed. It's quite clear who wears the $1000 pants at CCP, and it isn't Zulu. So when will we get an apology for Hilmar's p***-poor attitude to the people who pay his salary? Never, you say? Well, then I guess that's when CCP will get more of my money.
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Vincentus
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:01:00 -
[983]
Originally by: Mitchello Edited by: Mitchello on 02/07/2011 17:12:55 Commendable, very much so.
I still have concerns over the absence of the topic of convenience items, since that is both the commercial escape option as well as still suffering from unclarity about definitions which can confuse people along the road as they are introduced. But, it is a good step in the direction.
It speaks for CCP's values that they engaged in this. Yes, they had to due to commercial dependancy, but still, they could have just said "our way or the highway". And they didn't.
It saddens me that there is still a level of spin involved. On the newsletter topic, I can imagine how hard that hit as that got personal, completely understandable. But most of us know what kind of instrument such newsletters are for, particularly in this industry. They guide mindset, awareness, adoption of concepts & buzzwords and creative direction among employees. Especially in this industry.
But, you know, that is fine. One big lesson here, is that there has grown quite a distance between the parts of this huge and amazing triangle of CCP / EVE / Customers. That cuts in all ways, we have seen that, and I do hope that we all have seen that now.
As for the communicative challenges, yeah it's beyond clear now that the external and internal communicative hiccups have resulted in this mess. It is a shame, we saw last year another big issue with that and these matters really are entirely avoidable without painful lessons. But I hope that this gets picked up on, and capitalised on.
Why? Because Hilmar was right. EVE is an emergant dynamic. And we're all in it. Customers and CCP. Communication among us and between us is vital to the synergy and balance in growth, adoption and direction of EVE.
This cannot have been easy, respect.
This. All in all, I'm happy and am glad I can extend my account. I may even buy a monocle to commemorate this event :)
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Doctor LaserBoars
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:09:00 -
[984]
This blog answers little, and is filled to the brim with vagueness and promises. I'm not sure why CCP is leaving so much wiggle room in all of their statements, and all of these promises are pretty much useless to me as they're coming from a group I no longer trust.
I'll remain unsubscribed until I see some action on CCP's part, instead of just words.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:09:00 -
[985]
Edited by: Inspiration on 03/07/2011 16:10:15
Originally by: Heavenly Blues Meanwhile on Perpetuum Online:
Yesterday one of the Dev's for PO DJ'd a 3 hour set for us to listen too while we rocked robots. He was in general chat with everyone online playing during this interacting with us like human beings. If you are looking for a game where the executives still understand humility, come try a trial.
http://www.perpetuum-online.com
It's cheaper than eve too, and no $68 Mega-Transactions!
$68 is more than I spend on food in a week. Damn anyone that charges that much for imaginary items during an economic depression. Let them eat cake!
That looks pretty eve like in design, and I am sure going to look for some youtube clips to get a feel for the game play. Since I liked mechwarrior 4 robots and fitting things, this looks to be like its made just for me...a MMO based on robots instead of spaceships!
Thx for the link!
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:10:00 -
[986]
Originally by: Azanee Yarabokin
No apology from Hilmar, and no rollback on the outrageous NEX prices. "Staying the course" indeed. It's quite clear who wears the $1000 pants at CCP, and it isn't Zulu. So when will we get an apology for Hilmar's p***-poor attitude to the people who pay his salary? Never, you say? Well, then I guess that's when CCP will get more of my money.
I liked how Hilmar paraphrased Seneca "A wise man never asks what another man serves... for only his actions will speak the true answer."
I hope he remembers how Seneca died. Perhaps in a month or two, when lower subscription revenue percolates through banking accounts Hilmar will be forced to announce that he decided to "spend more time with his family".
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:23:00 -
[987]
Originally by: shar Depran Sadly all seem to have missed the point here as they sat politely round the table, Players in EVE play EVE because they æDO NOT WANT TO PLAY WoW.Æà.. got it!. Write that down on your oversized CCP issue foreheads please.
I really don't see the comparison. WoW actually involves almost all (if not outright all) it's content in the 'walking around' aspect. I get the strong feeling, even now, that Walking in Stations is and always has been a side-feature, just for the sake of immersion in your character, or as a tool to interact character-to-character, eventually, with other players while taking a break from playing the majority of the game content out in space, which is pew-pew-ing eachother in the face gleefully.
Originally by: shar Depran As such the option to opt out of this section of this game should and I would go as far as to say must be included so players can retain the hangar environment if they so choose so allowing the once fluid play afforded before this ridiculous addition to the game, A HOLOGRAPHIC option is not an option here guys, docked means docked and not strutting around some scruffy station corridor in fancy clothes and high heels.
Totally agree, and, from the sounds of things, so does the CSM. Hopefully they and us can talk or smack further sense into CCP to realize they're being ridiculous.
Originally by: shar Depran The statement also provided insight in to the Trinket stores future inventory, but again neatly sidestepped the issue of game changing items being sold there, I called it a Trinket store because that is just what it should be, fancy goods for vain players that want to tart up there toons, not so called Gold ammo or special purpose ships ect, design these things in your coffee breaks if you must, or better still accept idea from players on the designs and if you get blown up you loose em, simply game pay really, what EVE was always about.
It should also include decorating our Internet Spaceships with fancy paint schemes or what have you, so long as it doesn't affect stats. Don't forget that. I personally don't mind leaving the default skins, but I know plenty who would like to be able to choose colors. Hopefully they can hammer out the details and get us something simple and effective for this purpose- like paint fitting slots or what have you, instead of trying to trade in one ship for another like what they seem to be trying to get to work.
Originally by: shar Depran In closing a note to CCP ZULU, please take the crayons off those script kiddies you employ and put them to work were they should have been all along, BUG FIXING the crappy code they wrote in the first place, and no cookies for them or you until they do.
I do believe that's Team BFF you're looking for. CCP does have multiple teams, working on completely different projects. Team BFF is, as far as I've seen, handling the '1000 cuts' thing, if you know what that means. CCP Navigator made an announcement earlier in this thread covering a number of topics, one of which was Team BFF covering our beloved Internet Spaceships gameplay. Hopefully CCP Shockwave will give us more details soon. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1544681&page=10#282 ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Grey Griff
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:31:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Alejan Gerakh
Originally by: Grey Griff the thing is that there should be no game influencing items or services for money and it can be pretty simple answered.
Like PLEX? That's pretty game-influencing, purchased for money.
I'm not saying PLEX is a problem, necessarily. I'm just pointing out what applies based on your qualifiers. See how hard it is to get the right terms?
ok see your point, i would like there will be no PLEX as well, but it is lesser evil, and it has no direct influence, it redistributes values between players, some times i think ccp made PLEX to use it as an argument for such discussions(hope that not so), so while i still feel some unsatisfaction ill stay in eve and hope there won't appear so called game breaking services or items(non vanity for money in my perception, and wich work not like kind of PLEX), and monetization won't take away ccp from game development in the process
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:36:00 -
[989]
Before I go any further, I just like to say I'm glad this thread's kept mostly civil, past a certain point, and I apologize for any unwarranted @$$holery. I try not to be a bastard, but I, sadly, can have times of unintentional arrogance of "I'm right, you're wrong". Not always, for sure, but often enough.
I think it's also important I clarify I am just as concerned with whether CCP will keep up with their intent to communicate more solidly, and generally keep with what they were trying to say in their statement as the rest of the reasonably 'reserved' people. I will continue to be watching them as closely as I have (I read all devBlogs in their entirety, eventually), and will gladly join the rest in any further necessary public revolts. But know that I am willing to believe CCP's faults of late, and in general to be honest, are more of incompetence than any real malice on their part. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:38:00 -
[990]
Originally by: Doctor LaserBoars This blog answers little, and is filled to the brim with vagueness and promises. I'm not sure why CCP is leaving so much wiggle room in all of their statements, and all of these promises are pretty much useless to me as they're coming from a group I no longer trust.
I'll remain unsubscribed until I see some action on CCP's part, instead of just words.
Fully respect your position, and hope to see you again down the space-road, maybe exchange some pew-pew. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
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Alejan Gerakh
Minmatar Clan Hyena
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:41:00 -
[991]
Originally by: Azanee Yarabokin So, after all this we get some weasel words, Zulu and the Goon congratulating each other on how reasonable they've been, and that's about it. The myriad things wrong with Incarna may be fixed at some vague future date, or they may not. Some "lower priced" garbage may be coming to the NEX at some point in time, or it may not. No apology from Hilmar, and no rollback on the outrageous NEX prices. "Staying the course" indeed. It's quite clear who wears the $1000 pants at CCP, and it isn't Zulu. So when will we get an apology for Hilmar's p***-poor attitude to the people who pay his salary? Never, you say? Well, then I guess that's when CCP will get more of my money.
I wonder if he will give an announcement eventually, or we have to put it to a vote or what. I'd like to see it, too, if only just to make me feel better about the guy. ---- "Who the message originates from matters too. The CCP dev who posted those "no microtx plan" posts back then was not aware of any such plans, because they were new." |
E6o5
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:42:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
Could one of the CSM members please clarify why all of CCP's statements about MTs only say "in the NeX store."
Could they also comment on why CCP wrote "game-breaking" instead of "game-affecting". I want to ignore the obvious subjective at this moment so I can point out that it is also superfluous. Like creating a function in a computer program called "ProcessData()," CCP's wording tells us nothing. I'm suggesting that it was deliberate.
I don't mean to be trying to sound big with big words; I genuinely want to someone to realise that it was superfluous. It is taken for granted that if CCP say to themselves "This will break the game" then they won't release it.
So I would like those 2 things answered. Otherwise we are left wondering 1, "What about MTs outside the NeX store?" and 2, "What about any MTs that are game-affecting but not CCP's idea of game-breaking?"
Why is the CCP statement vague? Why is the CSM statement so clear? I assume the CSM statement is based on other communications from CCP, because CCP's statement isn't clear enough to support CSM's.
I like this answered as well.
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Karrick Salk
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Posted - 2011.07.03 16:51:00 -
[993]
CCP - Nice to see the knee-jerk reaction is still working there.
I will resub accounts when I log in, see better vid performance (I do not have a slouchy rig by no means) <the current vid performace is horrible> and when I can station spin again without the performace hit. - my current end date is in Nov. Hope to be here after.
I chose to play EVE because it did not have the girly walking avatars crazieness. I really care for that about as much as I care for getting a tooth pulled. With rusty pliers, in a back ally on the "bad" side of town.
As a note: Add P2W items above that of the normal sub, and I'm gone. Period. Karrick Salk
All your Asteroid Belts are belonging to me! |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:11:00 -
[994]
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Minimum Specs
The minimum specifications that we display are for one client running on the lowest end machine. This means that you will be able to load Incarna at the minimum spec and play EVE Online. We are going to investigate introducing a minimum specification for players who want to run two clients in the upcoming 'ship spinning' view. What these minimum specs will be are still to be decided and, again, we will bring this to you in the form of a dev blog.
As I said in my introduction, I just want to give you all some quick feedback and that a lot of this is based on technical limitations. I don't want to further expand on these answers as it would be much better if you heard them directly from someone who has more knowledge about it than I do.
When you ask the others to read through the thread, could you ask them to address a concern that many of us have regarding the "minimum specs" issue?
I have read in other posts that said your devs are going to be working toward getting incarna to work similar to how "pre-incarna" worked in relation to system resource usage and performance, but at the same time, I see your post mentioning getting us a set of minimum specs for people who are wanting to run more than one client and deciding what those specs will be.(when they've been decided)
To preface my particular question: I currently run a system that's about 3 months old, bought, configured, and assembled based on various things, namely the ability to run all 5 of my accounts on a single machine(2 in one screen and the other 3 in a screen of their own) after the release of incarna plus do the other things that I normally do on my home/work system when not playing. I'm running an I7 quad core W/HT, 24 gigs of ram, dual GTX 460 cards (recommended by CCP in the EVGA coupon code email) and about 4 TB of total hard disk space with an SSD as the Win7 OS drive, yet when I run 3 clients on my system with the station environment loaded this system slows to a literal crawl and it's by no means even close to a "low end" system.
So the question is, are you guys planning on simply giving us a set of specs that we will have to have in order to play multiple accounts at the same time with some reasonable functionality?, or are the devs actually going to work on a reduction of the system resources needed by the incarna engine so that people aren't forced to go buy some super computer in order to just play the game that they love?
I only ask because it seems as though we're being told 2 different things relating to the performance issues of incarna. also, if there's any information that "I" can contribute to their research or testing, (dxdiag, program dumps, ect) I'm happy to oblige.
Thank you for your time Sir. o/ K.S.
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Zeg Quul
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:15:00 -
[995]
ATM: cease fire at the best. Hilmar's megalomaniac e-mail still not answered. Weasel words from Zulu. Thats not a foundation of trust. Anyway, thx to CSM.
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T1nyTradingMan
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:20:00 -
[996]
After reading a lot of these comments the one thing I know won't change is that in any give large group of people there is going to be a subset that will never be happy, never trust and generally bring down a decent argument with **** poor logic.
Everyone should remember (and I know they won't) that CCP were the people that brought you the game you love, they were capable of doing that then.. Why is it so difficult to place in them some trust that they will continue to work in the interests of the community??
Anyway the targets of this post will not read it or simply dismiss it so I'll just go back to playing the game..
Thanks CCP and the CSM for clearing some things up.. I wasn't ever unsubbing but you have put a few minor concerns to rest, thankyou.
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Kal Erkkinen
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:39:00 -
[997]
Has CCP Zulu been slapped yet?
Glad to hear everything is done and sorted.
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Phugoid
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:41:00 -
[998]
Well, im a fairly new player... but i'd like to thank the CSMs for their hard work on this, and for CCP for realizing something "fishy" happened. Eve is still a great game, and of course highly addictive :)
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WCPistolPete
Gallente MacroIntel
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:53:00 -
[999]
Not drinking the Kool-Aid here.
I'm still very cynical.
Hahaha. A statement made by those saying our representatives, in compliance with the NDA, didn't find anything objectionable. What if they did? Does the NDA allow them to disclose that? Well, if CCP enforces the NDA, they wouldn't be able to tell us they weren't happy with what they heard as it might reveal a "trade secret" or other intellectual property. Fail IMHO.
Subs remain cancelled until bugs and broken mechanics introduced over the past few years are resolved. Performance must also be brought back to pre-CQ levels without the need for systems upgrades or special software that forces a shutdown before CQ runaway-overheating of CPUs and GPUs occur.
Question never asked: What will CCP do for those who lost equipment because of poor coding?
Hilmar's leaked email: Still a loser. The CSM noting it but CCP's failure to address it is truly a slap in the face. Hilmar: Please go self destruct a fully-loaded cargo ship and your pod in Jita as penance. Be sure to drop some +5s and tons of faction gear. I would consider that a single step toward restoring trust.
MT and "game-breaking" features: MT remains. I can only wait and watch to see what else develops as CCP evolves the NeX market.
Sorry, the trust was broken and I'm not one to jump back on the fence after being pushed off.
-- {WC}PistolPete "...going to take a lot of fireworks to clean this place up." Homer Simpson
Unsubscribed until further notice. Lurking because no one can turn away from a train wreck. |
Makar Kravchenko
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Posted - 2011.07.03 17:58:00 -
[1000]
Spin that PR machine!
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IGNATIUS HOOD
Amarr Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:00:00 -
[1001]
Originally by: Karrick Salk CCP - Nice to see the knee-jerk reaction is still working there.
I will resub accounts when I log in, see better vid performance (I do not have a slouchy rig by no means) <the current vid performace is horrible> and when I can station spin again without the performace hit. - my current end date is in Nov. Hope to be here after.
I chose to play EVE because it did not have the girly walking avatars crazieness. I really care for that about as much as I care for getting a tooth pulled. With rusty pliers, in a back ally on the "bad" side of town.
As a note: Add P2W items above that of the normal sub, and I'm gone. Period.
So in other words.. You're a sadist? I personally like WiS about as much as having someone cut my achilles tendons with a rusty hacksaw blade, but hey.. to each his own.
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Slate Shoa
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:07:00 -
[1002]
Edited by: Slate Shoa on 03/07/2011 18:09:03
Originally by: Kvetha Fricai ephasis added to quoted posts
Quote: Posted - 2010.06.24 17:23:00 - [20]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally by: Clolo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This has me all confused, is CCP going to start offering some sort of Microtransaction for SP? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No. There are no microtransaction plans, whatsoever. I wrote "in this case" because this extended downtime was an unusual situation. It's not every day we relocate our servers to a new facility.
Quote: Posted - 2010.06.24 17:13:00 - [7]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40 Just for clarification, the skillpoints CCP will be giving pilots to make up for the extended downtime in this case is not tied to microtransactions.
Editing to add this: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE.
So, in one short year, we went from "no plans" for MT to "deploying" MT? Is this what you call truth now or then? Get it straight CCP, tell the truth or lose the subs. I want to have it right now, in writing, that you will NEVER introduce items in the NEX that will IN ANY WAY effect game play period. No exotic ammo, ships etc. Put it out there as we are waiting to see and hear it.
QTF
If CCP has set any trend, it's that they make the plans shortly after they announce that there are no plans... CCP has lost my trust, not just because of this but because of a multitude of false promises and inadequacies.
Oh, and I've been promised DevBlogs before and those never appeared. I'm not paying to wait and see if CCP will hold to their (vague) word this time. My subscription remains canceled until CCP explicitly states that they will never introduce gameplay changing items in the NEX.
They never will...
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:36:00 -
[1003]
I'm happy with the results of this summit. I think the meeting was productive and its face-to-face nature was key. Kudos to CCP for being smart about the damage control of this whole fiasco. And big ups to the CSM members who dropped everything at a moments notice to fly to Iceland.
I however am still of the belief that some mild, non-permanent game enhancing items should be sold in the NeX. I don't see why it's fair that those with more time than money should have the absolute advantage in this game. I think it needs to be balanced so that there is some advantage to having more time than money, and some advantage to be had for having more money than time. It's a fine line but it's one that can be walked successfully. ~Gnosis~ |
Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:39:00 -
[1004]
Edited by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath on 03/07/2011 18:40:20
Originally by: WCPistolPete Not drinking the Kool-Aid here.
Hahaha. A statement made by those saying our representatives, in compliance with the NDA, didn't find anything objectionable. What if they did? Does the NDA allow them to disclose that? Well, if CCP enforces the NDA, they wouldn't be able to tell us they weren't happy with what they heard as it might reveal a "trade secret" or other intellectual property. Fail IMHO.
Actually, an NDA would not restrict them* from saying they weren't happy with what they saw, it would only restrict them from stating the specifics about what it was that they saw that they were displeased with, nothing more, nothing less.
For example, they are freely able to make a statement like "After reviewing the data presented to us, we feel that CCP is heading in a direction that we do not feel follows the immersion aspects of the game and we have made them aware of our stance on this issue." without violating the NDA in any way, shape or form, but on the other hand, they could not make the statement "After seeing CCP's plans to release an entirely new solar system 2 years from now, we (insert item here)." and make it without CCP's approval, otherwise they would be in violation of the NDA.
of course those are very broad examples, but I'm sure you'll understand them.
I agree with you on the bugs and performance issues and even though I'm not going to unsub because of them?, CCP needs to take a serious look into that issue and get a serious resolution to it in the works fast or there will likely be repercussions in the future.(IE. more unsubs, ect ect)
o/ K.S. Edit: grammar. :P
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Verras Togosa
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Posted - 2011.07.03 18:40:00 -
[1005]
Originally by: Vandrion
What they say doesn't matter.. Its what they do........
This
Originally by: Geksz Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:06:10 Edited by: Geksz on 02/07/2011 17:01:09 Will there be an explanation on WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A PERMANENT HANGAR BAY VEIW (like the old one without Incarna)? And why isn't Incarna optional like CCP promised earlier? (I'm sorry, but the option to have a still picture instead if the hangar is really disappointing, and in early test builds it wasn't even there!!!)
The blog clearly states that CCP is working on implementing a new spinning ship hangar view. OK, good to know, but what was wrong with the old one?
And this.
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Kynder Furlow
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:06:00 -
[1006]
I told you all NeX was vanity only -- just had to read the already released official blogs and put them together =P
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Helothane
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:28:00 -
[1007]
Edited by: Helothane on 03/07/2011 19:28:59 Initially I was annoyed at a lack of response to Hilmar's email, but then realized why it was not addressed in the CCP statement. The only person that can respond to the fallout from that email is Hilmar himself. No employee should presume to speak or apologize for something the CEO has said, except perhaps the PR department, and I'm not sure CCP has a dedicated one of those. Certainly a group-produced statement by developers is in no position to do so. Hilmar himself may not have responded because the majority who are upset over the email won't be swayed by words, but by actions.
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Ef Ahak
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:34:00 -
[1008]
Edited by: Ef Ahak on 03/07/2011 19:34:36
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Minimum Specs... ... I'm running an I7 quad core W/HT, 24 gigs of ram, dual GTX 460 cards (recommended by CCP in the EVGA coupon code email) and about 4 TB of total hard disk space with an SSD as the Win7 OS drive, yet when I run 3 clients on my system with the station environment loaded this system slows to a literal crawl and it's by no means even close to a "low end" system. ...
Even though your HDD space means zero, it is obvious that you should be able to run this game absolutely flawless on that monster.
I just want to add a fact so that it doesn't get 'forgotten' in the performance discussion: there was a patch a few days before the release of incarna/CQ, where CCP turned part of the 2D UI elements into 3D dito. A change in shader coding, simply put.
Reason I say this is, as I said, so that it is clear that CQ is not the lone gunman in the case of the performance drop. It started with the re-coding of the normal UI a few days before CQ release.
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:38:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: Inspiration
Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo Why is the CCP statement vague? Why is the CSM statement so clear? I assume the CSM statement is based on other communications from CCP, because CCP's statement isn't clear enough to support CSM's.
Asking the question is answering it!
But all that does then is present the question - Why did CCP choose not to make a clear statement?
If we agree that it is clear that CSM's statement is not supported by CCP's statement, and we thus assume that CCP have communicated something to CSM for CSM to write with such certainty, why did CCP not announce that particular something in their statement? Why are CSM the only ones saying anything direct?
Why is it that CCP can now simply say "CSM said that, not us."
CSM, did you get tricked with wording? No? Then how come CCP's statement is nowhere near as direct as CSM's?
By HyperZeg:
Quote:
1. Why MT in the first place ? Greed? 2. Why THAT many open backdoors in the statement? Buying a Titan per NEX is non-game-breaking but a non-vanity item. Also, gold ammo in a NEXX shop is still possible. 3. The internal newsletter contained plans for faction-standing sales per NEX. How can you say there were NEVER plans for it ?
1. Not greed, profit. Business is business, don't try to make a moral stand. 2. Incorrect. No non-vanity items will be sold in the NeX store. CCP said this clearly. 3. If what you say is true, good point. But I don't know what letter you are talking about. Perhaps you are referring to considerations only, not plans.
I repeat to highlight the question: CSM, why is your statement different to CCP's in clarity?
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Telion Rethson
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Posted - 2011.07.03 19:42:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Jennifer Starling They're removing PLEX from the game!! And the character bazaar as well!!
The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle.
The problem with that comparison is that, firstly, the character bazaar does not directly allow buying characters for real-life cash. It is the seller that has to pay real-life cash to sell, or use PLEX to do so. You can buy characters by buying PLEX, selling those PLEX for Isk, and then using that Isk to buy the character - just like anything else in the game. Which nicely leads onto your second problem. When you buy PLEX, then sell it for Isk, you get a crapload of Isk - but the player you sold it to gets a PLEX. So what advantage have you gotten over the player you just sold the PLEX to, considering there's nothing preventing him simply selling on that same PLEX, possibly for more than you did? If you then use that Isk to buy a character, you get a character with skillpoints you, personally, did not earn - but the player you just bought it from, who did earn those points, gets a crapload of Isk. So what advantage do you get over that character, exactly, considering there's nothing preventing him from using that Isk to buy another character, or possibly even a better one? So, you see, the investment of money does not, currently, give you any advantage over the investment of time, even with the capability of buying PLEX for real-life cash.
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.03 20:05:00 -
[1011]
Originally by: Ef Ahak Edited by: Ef Ahak on 03/07/2011 19:34:36
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: CCP Navigator
Minimum Specs... ... I'm running an I7 quad core W/HT, 24 gigs of ram, dual GTX 460 cards (recommended by CCP in the EVGA coupon code email) and about 4 TB of total hard disk space with an SSD as the Win7 OS drive, yet when I run 3 clients on my system with the station environment loaded this system slows to a literal crawl and it's by no means even close to a "low end" system. ...
Even though your HDD space means zero, it is obvious that you should be able to run this game absolutely flawless on that monster.
I just want to add a fact so that it doesn't get 'forgotten' in the performance discussion: there was a patch a few days before the release of incarna/CQ, where CCP turned part of the 2D UI elements into 3D dito. A change in shader coding, simply put.
Reason I say this is, as I said, so that it is clear that CQ is not the lone gunman in the case of the performance drop. It started with the re-coding of the normal UI a few days before CQ release.
yeah, I agree on both points...
The HDD space mention is simply to preempt any questions of running out of or being close to running out of hard drive space causing the system to not perform well overall and while that's rarely the case when I've worked on customer's systems that are performing poorly, I have seen it on occasion.
o/ K.S.
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Psyclown Lucyphre
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Posted - 2011.07.03 20:13:00 -
[1012]
I had 3 EVE accounts. Lost all confidence in this world and the long-awaited WoD MMOG. btw who're living in total denial. I mean when they read the "Fearless" leak, they said if it was real WoD is dead!, Well it was real and now they adapt, LOL. One guy is turning to the Wodka bottle!
That BS video showing CCP & CSM convices me of the repetiton of this little event. Appeasement (1939)
Ok so that is like serious stuff and this is only a game after all, but hang on
to me my hard-earned $$$ is fukking serious. Next month i reduce my EVE experience to 1 account only, as it stands right now.
Lucy
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Etil DeLaFuente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 20:42:00 -
[1013]
- Vanity items : "used for the sale of vanity items only" yeah riiight.. It's not like they said they'll never do MT. - Performance improvement : Not even a vague idea of when, who or what will be done to resolve it or at least reduce performance issues. - Old hangar : "CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date" Haha good one.
So, all in all, CCP will do some more useless dev blogs once again, explaining how cool the crap stuff they force us to use is, without taking a firm engagement on resolving current issues and their future plans. Great waste of time. |
Integra Arkanheld
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Posted - 2011.07.03 20:45:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
Originally by: GeneralMartok
Originally by: Heavenly Blues
Originally by: GeneralMartok its a true shame that CCP caters to the tantrums of whiney ***gots
Hey look, this guy could have gotten a blowjob with what he spend on his e-monocle.
I bought 2 quafe shirts, a monocle, sterling dress shirt, commando pants and precision boots without spending RL money, I did this for your juicy tears and to show support for CCP over the tantrums of the chromosomally challenged
Maybe if the denziens of eve protested in this manner over botting, we'd actually have some progress in that arena
Your so right, you didn't spend any real money, just the person who bought the GTCs to make the PLEXes that you bought to buy your AUR, they spent real money.
People buying PLEX do so to have more isk. They do not need to do it, but it is their choice. It is still better than people using bots. It also helps to reduce the number of people selling isks for real money making it more limited. People that have lots of isks,if they want to buy vanity items as it cost them nothing, it is their choice. they have no obligation to do it, but they have the choice if they want. IF CCP has more people buying PLEX, and those people do it willingly without any obligation, without creating a problem for others, it is good for everyone. If CCP has more money, they can buy better hardware, so we can play with less lag. If they have more money, they can hire more people, and we can have more expansions for the game. People should not protest for vanity items (while it stays as vanity items and nothing else)
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Utremi Fasolasi
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.03 20:50:00 -
[1015]
Is that really The Mittani? I never him expected to be so.... hotness. Wow. O_O
Another myth crushed... |
BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2011.07.03 21:33:00 -
[1016]
Originally by: Utremi Fasolasi Is that really The Mittani? I never him expected to be so.... hotness. Wow. O_O
Another myth crushed...
You dont think they sent the real Mittani do you? thats one of the many Mittani voice Impersonators. Mittens never leaves his iron lung.
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Liva Daril
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.03 21:53:00 -
[1017]
Well, it¦s been nice to feel good about EVE again, even if it was only for a day.
After reading up on the details and finally understanding, that the old efficient hangar is dead for good, I¦m off till you get your damn priorities right.
I will not stand for CCP¦s stubbornness pushing the pre-alpha Incarna client on us and again believing promises of a magic new Hangar that works just like the old one without hard-coded proof.
So long etc..
Quote:
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qqsqq
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Posted - 2011.07.03 22:11:00 -
[1018]
You need only to add not so expensive stuffs for isks.. This is all what need from u CCP
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John Zorg
Caldari The Damned Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.03 22:31:00 -
[1019]
Originally by: Sorgenbinder
Originally by: The Offerer Edited by: The Offerer on 03/07/2011 00:27:01
Originally by: Stephanie Rose
Originally by: The Offerer
Yes, you are in position to buy whatever you want by selling PLEX-es, but: - you are giving game time to a player that need it to play; - you are getting ISK that was created by that player through gameplay. By needing his ISK you've created content for that player - a need to get a bit more ISK to buy a PLEX. - you will use that ISK to trade it for some items that other players produced. You've created content for them by having a need for those items and you've boosted the economy in the process (because as wee all know - more selling, healthier economy).
This system is nothing like "golden ammo". This system is good for the game. ----
If your rich an have lots of money, your BUYING an advantage, if your not rich, an don't have money, your not buy anything, but pounding sand. Whether you want to spin it as P2W, or not, it still gives an advantage to people who can afford it. Like someone said on a blog, no one seems to be able to clearly define P2W. Now, this may not be CCP selling you the stuff, it is coming from other players, but it still takes REAL money to make all this work, one way or another.
But what advantage? Do you have an advantage because you have the items OR does the manufacturer have the advantage because he gets your ISK OR does a PLEX buyer have an advantage because he can afford (ISK wise) to play the game for free?
It's a win-win-win scenario. It's so cool that it's bigger than bi-winning... it's tri-winning.
Yes, there could be several "winners". And everyone else is a "loser".
If I want to fly, say, a Charon but don't have the ISK to buy the skills, PLEX allow me to buy the skillbooks using real-world cash. If I buy those skillbooks from an NPC source, I am the only winner.
Once I've trained the skills, profligate fool that I am, I have no cash to buy the actual ship. Hey presto, another charge to my credit card and yay! - one sparkly new (well, slightly used) Charon sitting outside my balcony. Winners? Me, the guy who sold me the ship, and possibly the guy that built it. Losers? Anyone and everyone who might be in competition with me.
Ispo facto I have bought an in-game advantage.
I am glad that some people see this the way I do. The example given is very small scale. I for one don't care about losing ingame. But look at a scenario that we had recently as the NC. White Noise used either botting or GTCs to collect enough ISK together to buy double the super caps we had. They also had the ISK to pay contracts for other alliances to hit us... there is no way that they collected that from moons or ops... not possible. Dyspro and Prom has very low value.
Now, if they didn't bot then that ISK had to come from somewhere... GTCs? If that is the case then it's basically P2W.
I have been a long time supporter of this game, always played by the rules but the fact that people can inject infinite amounts of RL money into the game totally destroys the balance. I will not deny that GTC(PleX) is a great feature for those that cannot affort to play the game... but the abuse of it is too high a risk to the balance of EVE-Online. CCP will never stop the system I know, as it would be financialy a bad descision... CCP is not about the game any longer... it's about the money they can generate from this game.
Sad fact but true :(
JZ
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Consortium Agent
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Posted - 2011.07.03 23:08:00 -
[1020]
Edited by: Consortium Agent on 03/07/2011 23:11:52 At long last I can put away my fire pit and all the blocks of cold hard steel I'd been ripping off my battleships to build pitchforks with.
Thank you, CCP, for stating the one thing that we asked of thee to begin with.
@CCP Zulu - I'm sure you'd rather see me burn and go to hell than accept my apology given how hard I was on you (and others at CCP, but mostly you), but nevertheless I apologize for my passionate and sometimes rage filled postings in the forums, some of which had personal attacks of your character. There is no excuse for my behavior.
@CCP Hilmar - You are still an ass and I owe you no apology :P
@Mittens - Although I'm still going to shoot the goons whenever I can whenever I do decide to give Eve another try <g>, you did a good thing here for *everybody* in Eve. Take note of how that makes you feel... is it as good as helping yourself or better? ;P
@CSM - It only took 6 CSMs to finally get CCP to understand your role in their game. Your days of public relations muppets are now over. Kudos. Kudos indeed.
/me looks at pile of battleship parts laying about his hamgar...
Say... anyone have some spare nano repair paste I can have?
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.07.03 23:11:00 -
[1021]
I would still like some more discussion on why CCP used evasive language, like "unfair" and game-breaking" instead of simply saying "game-affecting".
And why they only repeated "in the NeX store" when referring to non-vanity MTs, instead of saying no no-vanity MTs, period.
CCP did not deny non-vanity MTs outside the NeX store, at all.
CCP's statement means they have not denied, for example, special NPC agents that trade AUR for skill points at a fair price. That's just a hypothetical of course, but in short they did not deny any game-affecting MT that could be ended with the words "for a fair price."
And they did not deny any game-affecting MTs outside the NeX store, regardless.
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dicen3
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Posted - 2011.07.03 23:28:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: d4shing
Originally by: The Mittani what a huge pain in the ass this all was. just got back home.
as i said before, this whole mess could have been prevented with better communication from ccp, which is the company's achilles heel. i'm glad that we were able to help clarify things and that the spectre of gold ammo and gold ships and lowes in space can be put to rest, beyond the easily-trolled conspiracy theorist fringe who'll sperg out no matter who says what
now i'm going to go to sleep for a week. at least in wisconsin the sun goes down X(
I think they communicated pretty clearly that they want more of our money but that they don't want to have to earn it by making the game more enjoyable to play.
They even communicated that they're happy to consider making the game worse in the long-run if it wrings out more cash in the short term.
I don't think the problem was that they didn't communicate this in a sufficiently gentle manner.
support
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Geksz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.03 23:33:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: Pierced Brosmen
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel My question is "what do you want"? If your answer is: - "don't want InCarna". I can't give you that. For better or worse, InCarna and Eve are now one and the same. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for philosophical reasons [ie, I play 'flying in space', not 'space dollies]", see point above. - "I don't want to be forced into InCarna for performance reason". We got a compromise solution (and a bit extra) - "I want my hangar functionality where I spin my ship", we got you that
You missed one, and the one reason why I hate Incarna in it's current implementation - "I don't want to be forced into Incarna for immersion reasons" If you dock up to pick something up (like ammo), to complete or pick up a mission or simply, if you are in a fleet, waiting for the FC's command to all undock and engage... then why the hell would you be outside your ship... especialy the last example... You don't want to be standing on your balcony and first at the order to undock, start by having to get into your ship. Seriously.
For 8 years the backstory of EVE has been told us that getting out of the pod was a rather nasty experience for the pilot... Just because making Incarna the only way to dock bechause that was a convenient solution conserning development (and that having more players looking at their avatars would propably get more players to buy clothes), doesn't mean they should turn on their lore... That is sacred territory.
If I dock up to pick up missiles and see my character on the hangar balcony, my first thought would always be "What the hell did you get out of the ship for???". It makes no sense whatsoever and I would like CCP to give a blody good reasoning for why it is changed into the way it is from a storyline standpoint (and an explenation that doesn't include they want people to buy more sh*t from the NeX store or that they just want people to use incarna because CCP have done a lot of work creating it).
Now don't get me wrong. I've never been opposed to Incarna, I've wanted it ever since I first heard about it (walking in stations) in 2007. What I'm opposed to is the implementation.
I don't nessecarily want the exact old hangars back, but I want an initail view that suggests I'm still in my ship. I think CCP forcing people into Incarna and thus leaving the ship whenever they dock is a wrong move and that they should rather put some creative heads together to make up incentives for people to want to leave their ships (like ability to talk with agents within x number of jumps away and accept their missions, and not be limited to the agents in the station like when you are in your ship).
If you had a reason to "want" to leave the ship, cause it gives you advantages to staying in the shio, I think a lot more people would be happy about Incarna. Also, with a solution where you had to manualy go ti Incarna, there is nothing preventing a checkbox in the game menu, where you chose if you want to dock directly to Captains Quarters or not.
Unless CCP gives a good explenation on why leving the ship/pod all the time is a good idea, then I will not drop this subject. Or turning things around a bit... If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether....
THIS ^^
So many times this! Especially the last part: "If leaving the pod all the time is a good idea, then mabye it's time to discard the concept of the pod altogether...."
And there is also 1 more thing to this. When in CQ u are actually still in ur ship game mechanics wise... So CQ is wrong on so many levels!
CQ should be separated form in space and hangars with separate graphical settings! With current lore it will never be a seamless part of the overall EVE experience. WE ARE POD PILOTS! We live EVE in space, not in stations. If incarna will be fully done, with something to do in it, it will still be a different game IMHO.
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Jean hunt
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Posted - 2011.07.04 00:24:00 -
[1024]
what a total lot of **** CSM....what a joke ,,,,,'we agree....we agree....we agree' ***g0ts grow some balls ffs
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Geksz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.04 00:28:00 -
[1025]
CQ / Incarna Stuff: If u take just CQ without it's issues, it is immersive, looking good, nice addition. It holds promise.
BUT:
- Imagine, if u are a spaceship captain (not a POD pilot even) and u dock at a station to unload or pack in some stuff and immediately undock. U can just radio in to the station to do the loading and let ur crew handle the stuff. Why do u want to set foot in the station every time? We need that hangar view. Only CQ makes no sense. I still want to see some damn good reasoning behind this.
- If i want to go to my quarters i should be separated form my ship and have a reason to go to my quarters or interact with other ppl in it or in a station enviroment.
- I will LEAVE my hangar view to go to CQ if i'll have a REASON to do so.
- In it's current form it is immersion breaking, lore breaking, reasource hog, PC breaking, and so on...
- Without it's own 3D UI it just makes no sense. I can't see anything from it becouse of the many windows that one has to use to achieve anything in EVE.
- EVE used to be a spaceship game...
- EVE was, is and will be a 2D spreadsheet game at the core, and u just made it a lot harder to do stuff in it.
We need a fast loading enviroment in station, that has all the neocom functionality. Actually if i just want to browse the market, refit, or reload i don't need nothing at the background. This door is even better then the old hangar view, and nothing will be faster loading then this. This option should be a permanent option to the game besides the CQ and hangar view for performance reasons. (laptops, old PCs)
- Functionality and gameplay should come before shinyness...
Communication:
- We need not just the WHAT but the WHY too. Pls in later expansions state WHAT will chnage and WHY before the expansion lands.
- We need better feedback from devs in the test server feedback forums, and some notes on the actual SiSi build.
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PsyOpWarfare
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Posted - 2011.07.04 01:05:00 -
[1026]
What a waste of time. I read nothing that would be me resub my accounts. What I read was your PR staff working overtime to try and get back the million dollars that you lost. The fact that two of your people sent two separate messages cutting us down and talking to us like we were nothing says something about the current state of mind. What happend to both of them that sent those messges to the players of eve? What disciplinary actions were taken? These are some of the things I want to know.
The meeting that was help showed nothing and the information that was released must have went across all the PR desk you guys have there.
I read nothing that would change my mind in leaving.
Way to go CCP hope your next mmo fails!
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Mira Kale
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:12:00 -
[1027]
Most people here are missing the important issues in this response:
- On difficulties of multiboxing clients with the new incarna environment: all they have said they will do is alter the stated minimum hardware spec on the website.
- On incarna environment always being optional: CCP seem set on forcing you to load it. Their current position is that once they have reintroduced ship spinning, the option not to load station environment will be removed.
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Ms Tragula
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:15:00 -
[1028]
Well for my money (money, lol) my fears have been addressed. Paranoid comments about ambiguity or 'wiggle room' in the latest statement from CCP, or the possibility of collusion by the CSM, are just that: paranoid. Like I posted in another thread about the protests: while there's no doubt that some conspiracy theories are accurate there are far more that are outright delusional, when your conspiracy theory has no evidential basis beyond paranoia you are in danger of losing touch with reality and sanity; just because something could have happened, doesn't mean it did.
While I personally had no problem with CQ (except that I'd like the smaller ships to actually look smaller from the balcony) and look forward to future in-station updates it's nice to see other people's issues being addressed there too. For me the protests were all about the NEX, its possible misuse, and the introduction of bucks for game-breakers, and I personally feel extremely reassured by CCP's statement.
I hope that, like me, a lot of players feel that this whole experience has actually been very positive. What other game is there where thousands of players can take part in a concerted protest, both in-game and out, over several days, have their voices acknowledged and then heard and responded to via a democratically elected parliament of fellow players flown to Iceland from around the world at the expense of the company? No other such game exists.
I played EVE for a while in its first year then I left and played a lot of other MMOs over the next 6 years, and I cannot over-stress that no other MMO even comes close to EVE for player-developer interaction and feedback. In fact it was an article I read about the CSM that reminded me why I loved EVE, and this stuff that's gone down in the last fortnight is exactly why I came back.
You earned a lot of respect in my book CCP, good job.
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Utremi Fasolasi
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:24:00 -
[1029]
Originally by: BIZZAROSTORMY
Originally by: Utremi Fasolasi Is that really The Mittani? I never him expected to be so.... hotness. Wow. O_O
Another myth crushed...
You dont think they sent the real Mittani do you? thats one of the many Mittani voice Impersonators. Mittens never leaves his iron lung.
I see what you mean. Here is who "they" represented as The Mittani in 2009... looks nothing like same guy does it..
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/75310
hmm conspiracy or...
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Ms Tragula
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 01:31:00 -
[1030]
Edited by: Ms Tragula on 04/07/2011 01:32:17
Originally by: PsyOpWarfare What a waste of time. I read nothing that would be me resub my accounts. What I read was your PR staff working overtime to try and get back the million dollars that you lost. The fact that two of your people sent two separate messages cutting us down and talking to us like we were nothing says something about the current state of mind. What happend to both of them that sent those messges to the players of eve? What disciplinary actions were taken? These are some of the things I want to know.
The meeting that was help showed nothing and the information that was released must have went across all the PR desk you guys have there.
I read nothing that would change my mind in leaving.
Way to go CCP hope your next mmo fails!
This post is exactly what I was talking about. Paranoid and completely closed-minded. In this person's mind the CSM are CCP stooges, or idiots, or else being completely and utterly lied to. Just because any of those scenarios are possible, that alone is no reason to believe any one of them.
Honestly, if you're still that ****ed off about it that there was nothing anyone could have said to satisfy you, why did you even bother protesting? Why are you still posting here? As for calling for disciplinary action against Zulu or Hilmar, well that just makes you sound like, at best, a naive child. Which you possibly are, or at least I hope so.
Not that any of this matters because you've unsubbed and will presumably be moving on to a different MMO. My advice is to pick an MMO and play it for a few years, wait for a few expansion packs and patches to go by that turn the overpowered class you rolled into puny cannon fodder running on a new graphics engine your PC can't cope with (a very common occurrence in MMOs), then try complaining about it on the forums, or looking for the in-game protest you can take part in, or the player delegation that will take your concerns to the developers... yeah... good luck with that.
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BolsterBomb
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Posted - 2011.07.04 01:49:00 -
[1031]
There is nothing in this blog that restores any kind of trust. "We acknowlege" and "we apologize" are two VERY different things. CCP is a bunch of tards. It looks like the CSM got a nice trip out of it through.
Nothing in this blog is worthwhile, all thos ethat are appeased by it need to reread the blog.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.04 02:11:00 -
[1032]
First, I would like to thank the CSM for taking the time out of their personal lives to address the issues on the players' behalf in the lanbd of ice and snow.
Second, after reading the statement and watching the video, I'm glad to see that both CSM and CCP having gotten something positive out of the experience.
Third, I seem to recall a similar promise regarding microtraqnsactions in the first place. Something like "CCP has no plans to introduce microtransactions in Eve." Look where we are today. Now CCP promises there will be nothing but vanity items in NeX. CCP's credibility is degraded at this point. I sincerely hope they don't go back on this promise as well.
We will be watching.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Drakprime
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:18:00 -
[1033]
35 pages to read.... will punt and guess that the instigating API-for-cash stink got addressed? Or is it under the rug? --- This, has what, to do with the price of Tea in D'ni? |
Theoer
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 02:26:00 -
[1034]
I believe we have been told what we would like to hear in a form that can be changed later.
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john roe
BearingPoint
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 04:20:00 -
[1035]
/me saying hello from 'World of Tanks'.
i guess it's bye-bye, then. just waiting for my accounts to expire (switching skills mostly).
after 7 years you have finaly did it, cccp. kudos
o7
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Brazero
Amarr Noble House
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Posted - 2011.07.04 04:27:00 -
[1036]
Originally by: john roe /me saying hello from 'World of Tanks'.
i guess it's bye-bye, then. just waiting for my accounts to expire (switching skills mostly).
after 7 years you have finaly did it, cccp. kudos
o7
This is exactly how I feel as well. After 7 years with this game, all there's left is some ***got RMT and lies, lies, and then some lies. The game went downhill from exodus, slowly at first, but then faster and faster. And now we are free falling........
Originally by: Rodj Blake CCP are planning to give Amarrians some "oomph"
Unfortunately, "oomph" is the sound one makes when kicked repeatedly in the ribs.
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Lemmy Kravitz
Minmatar Rebirth.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 04:37:00 -
[1037]
meh... without playing eve for almost two weeks, I have had time to do other things that I find more enjoyable. It took all this BS to get such a simple reply back. As far as I am concered unless ccp does something extraordinary like implementing killing and combat in stations I will not be returning. having a safehaven like the inside of a station that you can play around in, pretty much turns eve into any other MMO out on the market. so I'll just play StarWars Old republic once it comes out. Same as eve once incarna fully launches, but with lightsabers.
Best Regards, Lemmy Kravitz ------------------------------------------------- "Vae Victis" -Brennus |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.04 07:02:00 -
[1038]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 04/07/2011 07:04:32
"P2W items" were never a realistic option for the near future to begin with - outlash from the playerbase would have been way too hard.
The CSM managed to convince CCP to abstain from doing something that would not have been economically viable anyways. Great Job!
The MTs I am concerned about are those that would make good business sense for CCP to implement, not those that would suicide the company.
Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".
What about - Remap for AUR? - extra fitting slots for AUR? - faction standings reset from deep negative to -5? - 3-4$/month mini subscription for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?
These are not "items", they are "services". They would not be "P2W" but "convenience" services - they would give you no direct or "unfair" advantage in combat, industry, ... They would probably not be "game-breaking". They would not have to be sold through the NeX (which is a store for items). They would result in much less rage than "P2W items".
It's easy to talk about the points where the goals of the playerbase and CCP are aligned anyways.
The problematic areas are those that would kill the "spirit" of EVE but not cause players to unsubscribe.
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Hel Xaphod
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Posted - 2011.07.04 07:08:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Theoer I believe we have been told what we would like to hear in a form that can be changed later.
I believe we have been spammed by lawyer nonsense that promises nothing, as well.
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Motoko Kulotsuki
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Posted - 2011.07.04 07:15:00 -
[1040]
One account down, another ticking to zero. Still not convinced CCP can hold things together. CSM seem to be doing alright at the very least.
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Sijakta Ho Pakrsh
Sultanate of Rum
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Posted - 2011.07.04 08:55:00 -
[1041]
Edited by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh on 04/07/2011 08:55:45
"Never be afraid to mislabel a product."
~Rule of Acquisition #239
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.04 09:20:00 -
[1042]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".
What about - Remap for AUR? - extra fitting slots for AUR? - faction standings reset from deep negative to -5? - 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?
These are not "items", they are "services".
Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.
And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 09:45:00 -
[1043]
Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 04/07/2011 09:31:04
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".
What about - Remap for AUR? - extra fitting slots for AUR? - faction standings reset from deep negative to -5? - 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?
These are not "items", they are "services".
Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.
And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).
EDIT: An out-of-game skill access tool is not P2W, and would atually make much sense. It should simply be a standard part of EVE, though, and not something we'd have to pay for extra.
soryy, I think I didn't make myself clear.
I was referring to the baility to store more than 50 fittings in teh fittings manager, not to actual extra slots on ships.
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Da'gan
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Posted - 2011.07.04 10:36:00 -
[1044]
Ship spinning? People were bothered about that..?
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My Postman
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 11:11:00 -
[1045]
/supported.
Imo a good portion of this f*ckstorm could have been avoided, with proper communication. It was NOT "news" that many (or most) of the playerbase doesn¦t want "gold ammo" or "god-mode-concord-frig" introduced with MT. Now lets go back to business and help ccp to locate and fix different bugs introduced with last expansion.
And thanks to the CSM as well.
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2011.07.04 11:11:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh Edited by: Sijakta Ho Pakrsh on 04/07/2011 09:28:47
"Trust is the biggest liability of all. "
~Ferengi Rule of Acquisition #99
Quoted form the book of pure wisdom and common sense: http://ucip.org/sims/map/RacePlanet/FerengiRules.html
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Leylla Gainsborought
Fallen Angel's
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Posted - 2011.07.04 11:16:00 -
[1047]
Seems to me like CSM is a complete waste of time "Agree to all we say and well throw you a bone" (ship spinning) so u can save us a bit of face and return home not looking like the shambles that you are
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.04 12:15:00 -
[1048]
Did I miss something or was the only comment about the ******ed NeX prices :NDA: ?
ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.04 12:56:00 -
[1049]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2011.07.04 13:06:00 -
[1050]
You lot are fools if you think this was any kind of victory. A year ago CCP promised there would be no MT of any kind whatsoever. Within the year we will have MT for non-vanity game breaking things.
Anyone having any kind of trust in CCP is totally stupid, the trolls on these boards are more trustworthy. EVE is doomed and that is very clear.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 14:32:00 -
[1051]
Originally by: Da'gan Ship spinning? People were bothered about that..?
No, not really. But looking at that disingenuous blog, you would think so wouldn't you?
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Doddie
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:37:00 -
[1052]
About MT "plans", please tell me i misunderstood fact, that EVE and DUST markets will be connected. There will be MT in DUST 514, its clearly stated on DUST website. So, will MT will come to Eve via backdoors?
From http://www.dust514.com/en/news/article/1980/beginnings:
Economy Our business model for DUST 514 differs from single retail purchase and optional premium DLC of other games on the market. Instead, DUST is designed to utilize virtual goods sales. I will leave details of the economy system to our resident economist, Eino Joas, who will go over all of this with you in a devblog soon-ish, but here is how this works on a high level: DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace.
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Heavenly Blues
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:49:00 -
[1053]
Meanwhile in Iceland...
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Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 14:58:00 -
[1054]
Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 04/07/2011 09:31:04
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Not "P2W items" but "convenience services".
What about - Remap for AUR? - extra fitting slots for AUR? - faction standings reset from deep negative to -5? - 3-4$/month mini subscription (on top of the existing one) for skill training access, corp chat (and maybe market access) via EVE Gate?
These are not "items", they are "services".
Semantics. And an extra fitting slot is most definitely an 'item'.
And yes, they are P2W, as each of them yields an ingame advantage you would not have otherwise had (short of obtaining them the regular way).
EDIT: An out-of-game skill access tool is not P2W, and would atually make much sense. It should simply be a standard part of EVE, though, and not something we'd have to pay for extra.
They aren't pay to win as you'll see many capsuleers say as you don't need them to compete they 'enhance' your game. Is Evemon a 'win' feature, not required only makes managing your accounts easier, how about if you had to pay for it or similar program/site?
The point is the NEX will lead to more $ for 'stuff' sales, be they services like the above or actual content that would/should have been free like it USED to be but will no longer be. The one thing CCP will avoid, for a time or forever, is making those things 'required' or disadvantageous to your game if you don't pay for them. That way they can still fleece us for things we want, and many will pay for, without crossing that line of p2w that many people will say the above kinds of services aren't.
I don't see them as p2w but pay for advantage the difference is that sort of thing is what my sub covers, it should cover all game content period, but CCP disagrees.
Originally by: Doddie About MT "plans", please tell me i misunderstood fact, that EVE and DUST markets will be connected. There will be MT in DUST 514, its clearly stated on DUST website. So, will MT will come to Eve via backdoors?
From http://www.dust514.com/en/news/article/1980/beginnings:
Economy Our business model for DUST 514 differs from single retail purchase and optional premium DLC of other games on the market. Instead, DUST is designed to utilize virtual goods sales. I will leave details of the economy system to our resident economist, Eino Joas, who will go over all of this with you in a devblog soon-ish, but here is how this works on a high level: DUST 514 will, as EVE Online does, have a dynamic virtual economy and market that offers the tools that will give you a competitive edge, when used skillfully. Players are able to purchase different gear to equip before deploying into battle, using InterStellar Kredits (ISK), the in-game earned currency of the EVE universe, or through real money currency, called Aurum (AUR). This provides players with flexibility and adaptability in how they approach a combat scenario. Certain items are only available through ISK transactions, while others are only available through AUR. These are then traded freely on a player-driven secondary marketplace.
Yes it will, as far as we can expect seeing that CCP has not made any information about it available to us, the CSM, and the CSM didn't see fit to ask, at least according to the two CSM members who were only involved in teleconference for parts of the emergency summit. Please download and listen to eve radio's broadcast to hear their comments.
http://www.eve-radio.com/media/funkybacon20110701.mp3
Dust isn't done yet but as I mentioned before the meeting it will have an impact and it would have made sense to bring it up to CCP. Even if they hadn't worked out all the details yet so they'd be aware (since they don't 'get it') that they'd need to carefully look at how they make that interaction work. Realistically I don't see how they can allow p2w in dust w/o it infecting EVE w/ sov.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Zhula Guixgrixks
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:04:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: Heavenly Blues Meanwhile in Iceland...
quality fix ;-)
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Zarlis
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 15:39:00 -
[1056]
So many weasel words when all you needed to say was: - We will never introduce performance enhancing items to the store. - We will bring back the old station screen and you will be able to access incana from there if you wish.
See how easy it is. Go back and try again.
Chlorine, coming to the space pool near you. Get your goggles at the Aurum store. Greed is good.pdf |
Commander Criton
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Posted - 2011.07.04 16:11:00 -
[1057]
Well that has put my fears to rest and we get ship spinning back so I'm happy I have re-subbed for another 6 month.
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Kusanagi Kasuga
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:39:00 -
[1058]
I for one think that we need to see more information than this trickle of many words, little said. It's time CCP spoke up and told us what it's plan for MT is in the future.
Which of the following are still being considered: [ ] Ships for MT of any kind (ship skins don't count, full ships do) [ ] Fitting slots for MT or other interface enhancements for AUR. [ ] Establishments (ownership or use of) in Incarna for MT (I think this one is all but guaranteed) [ ] Standings for MT [ ] MT for Captains Quarters improvements (eg. stripper pole, kitty, Clear Skies couch) [ ] MT for Incarna improvements (eg. transportation) [ ] MT for insta-travel, insta-logistitics, or insta-anythingelse [ ] In game services for MT that are currently limited by standings, ISK, or any other player specific factor (eg. Jump clones, LP store, Mission access, industrial services, etc) [ ] SP for MT (Including SP transfers, dual-alt training, etc) [ ] MT-based access to in-station areas [ ] Restriction of current access to features with MT-unlocking (eg. Removal of current free clothing) [ ] Other?
Your plans worry us because they are behind a veil of secrecy - it is not difficult for us to imagine that the reason you do not share this information is because you worry about our reaction to it. Not all of the above things are anathema to the community. A lot of them are. If you start talking to us about what you are planning, then perhaps we won't have to guess?
Maybe if you even went as far as to ~ask~ us what we would accept, you'd get somewhere. The player base won't be gouged, and we do expect our monthly subscription to get us more than we've been getting of late - it is not an insubstantial volume of cash we are giving you to develop and maintain the game we love - but we can be willing to compromise if we believe CCP is acting in good faith. You have not been recently.
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E6o5
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 16:54:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Dan Estrellas Amigo I would still like some more discussion on why CCP used evasive language, like "unfair" and game-breaking" instead of simply saying "game-affecting".
And why they only repeated "in the NeX store" when referring to non-vanity MTs, instead of saying no no-vanity MTs, period.
CCP did not deny non-vanity MTs outside the NeX store, at all.
CCP's statement means they have not denied, for example, special NPC agents that trade AUR for skill points at a fair price. That's just a hypothetical of course, but in short they did not deny any game-affecting MT that could be ended with the words "for a fair price."
And they did not deny any game-affecting MTs outside the NeX store, regardless.
This has been pointed out by a couple of people now, but no response whatsoever ...
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Amaldor Themodius
Psykotic Meat
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:14:00 -
[1060]
I am hopeful this puts the matter to rest and thankful the game development is not trending in the direction it appeared.
Zulu does actually sound like a nice guy.. Hilmar can still go eat a **** but Zulu im ok with. I am also going to continue my eve game relationship and will resub my accounts as they fall due.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:16:00 -
[1061]
It's pointless posting in this thread any more, CCP have done enough to quell the upset. Nothing has changed and the CSM have shown exactly how useful they really are.
Move along people.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:19:00 -
[1062]
Thank you to all involved.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Dennie Fleetfoot
|
Posted - 2011.07.04 17:40:00 -
[1063]
Ok. As I've already stated, the joint statements and the manlove video (whoever called it that, hats off to you. Made me chuckle) have gone a long way to placate me for the time being. I've also said that my Alt will remain unsubbed until I've read this promised influx of dev blogs explaining the reasoning for many things.á
I'm still made as hell that Incarna was released when even a quick check on some modest systems would've shown it melts GPU's. That was just sheer imcompantance on CCP's part and I would happily call anyone on their QA department an idiot to their face for not doing their job correctly. In fact I'll do it now.á
YOU'RE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS!!!
However.á
One thing I support CCP in and that support has increased as I've read this thread is the issue of Multi-boxing. Some people really do want their cake, eat it and do an Oliver Twist and ask for more.á
Eve is internet ships and pew-pew. And we want them to be as pretty as possible. The drive for better graphics and the hardware that drives them is down to us. The gamers. We push the developers to squeeze every pixel they can from our systems. How do we push them? We buy the latest games that do just that. I'm building a modest gaming rig now to replace my two year old HP lappy. You can imagine how that liked Incarna. I'm building it so it meets the expected recommended spec requirement for the likes of Battlefield 3. So Eve should be a doddle for it.
But I have never for one moment expected it run more than one client of Battlefield 3 on full settings. And I've no need for it do so. But if I did, I would consider it as reasonable that the graphic settings would need to be lowered. And lowered again for 3 clients, same for 4 etc etc. Till it reached the point where the graphics couldn't get any lower or my equipment couldn't handle it. That understanding doesn't seem to extend, for some, as far as Eve is concerned. á
What's clearly obvious is that there are vocal minority who do not consider that reasonable. That Eve should run as pretty as possible, as many times as they want on as low a spec as they can afford and CCP shouldn't attempt to improve EVE (which they were trying to do but failed quite badly) if it means that they might have to drop a client.á
CCP's policy that the minimum spec is good for one client, on the lowest settings, is the correct one. As is the recommend spec for eve to run at it's best for just one client also. That is how the majority play the game and it means that CCP can develop the game to a set specification or give notice that the spec will be increasing.á
Technology moves on. Faster perhaps than we'd like it to. If running 6 clients is how you like to play EVE but want CCP to make it better, which WILL mean future spec bumps, then once CCP fix the graphics engine in Incarna, the brutal truth is this.á
Drop the settings or drop a client.
Or man up and cough up the dough to upgrade your gear or buy a second PC. If you actually do pay for six accounts, you can certainly afford it.
Just my opinion.
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profundus fossura
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:49:00 -
[1064]
Thanks CCP and CSM would love to have been fly on the wall at those meetings.
Despite the recent debacle I now have more respect for both CCP and the CSM and for the eve community as a whole than before.
I never even heard of the playerbase any other MMORPG being passionate enough to stage 10-15,000 player vitual riots (2500 each or several locations) constantly for what 2-4 days and on the ball enough to have threadnoughts clearing thousands of responses within an hour or so - this is a passionate community that I want to continue to be a part of.
Massive respect to the CSM for dropping everything and going out to iceland at the drop of a hat for what must have been pretty tough meetings.
Thanks and respect to CCP firstly recogniseing the issues and dealing with them (ok could have been faster) and for having the balls to try different and innovative things like DUST514 and for being willing (on occasion) to admit when they have ****** up which is more than almost any company I deal with is willing to do.
Finally a plea to CCP do not ever be scared of communicating plans/ideas with players even if you get a reaction on a scale of rthe last couple of weeks or bigger the time to worry is if you ever find there is no reaction.
Reafirmm Quote: null
ing my commitment to be here until either the hamsters or I give out.
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Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:54:00 -
[1065]
Apology(s) accepted, and glad to have the vanity-only plan affirmed again officially in light of the leaked email. As always, it's nice to see a company take issues like this head-on instead of sneaking around in the shadows pretending there is no problem, as certain other MMO developers have been known to do.
That being said, let this be a lesson to all that the "MT everything" model pushed by certain "market analysts" outside CCP and with a tenuous connection to Western MMOs in general is a bunch of crap and there's a reason they're writing blogs and articles instead of making games. I bring this up because, aside from possibly some of the ongoing Lulsec aftermath, Monoclegate is currently the biggest controversy in the gaming world and a lot of people have their eyes on CCP and their reaction. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Kardose Plathian
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:03:00 -
[1066]
Quote: The CSM helped CCP understand the emotional connection players had with äship spinning". They vehemently demanded the return of the feature, which CCP committed to introduce in some form at a future date. Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu.
Really - I actually feel CCP's pain for having to carry out this "political" update, the only thing I want is the distance/scale of ships corrected as it feels wrong.
I appreciate the lack of thought to the system overheads of multi account users was a bit daft from a commercial point of view however Eve does need to evolve and that means growing pains.
So CCP I commend your bold plans but not your sloppy execution
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:03:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: Soldarius Third, I seem to recall a similar promise regarding microtraqnsactions in the first place. Something like "CCP has no plans to introduce microtransactions in Eve." Look where we are today. Now CCP promises there will be nothing but vanity items in NeX. CCP's credibility is degraded at this point. I sincerely hope they don't go back on this promise as well.
I think it was Meissa who said something along the lines of, "The source of the message matters as much as the message; the plans were new when CCP Wrangler told us no MT at all."
That's a fair point -- there's a difference between a random CCP rep saying something in passing on the forums, and the higher-ups telling the CSM something at an emergency meeting. However, it's not totally reassuring. Does it just mean that it'll be 16 months instead of 13 until a change of plans is put into action?
Also, it implies that what Wrangler said was untrue even at the moment he spoke of it. Whether intentionally or not, CCP's communication system failed then as well. We were also told that CQ would be optional at one point, and now we find that it isn't.
If CCP is really interested in rebuilding the trust it has demolished, I think a good first step would have been to explicitly acknowledge and apologize for their recent mistakes, not in general, but in specific so we know that they know exactly what they did wrong, that they understand the problems with what they did, and know how they might avoid such mistakes in the future.
I see very little of that. And of course I also see vague, non-committal statements about the future of MT in EVE. Anybody schooled in communication will tell you that terms like "plan" and "game-breaking" in this context may easily be weasel words. If CCP couldn't, for good reasons, give us a more iron-clad assurance on this front, fine -- but they should have said that explicitly so nobody gets the wrong impression.
I also see CCP trying very hard to stick with the plan of force-feeding us CQ in contradiction to previous statements and the will of the community, but to make it seem OK by throwing us a bone or two that may partially address some of our concerns. I feel like I'd be able to trust CCP's overall message more if they abandoned this obvious loser of an idea and prioritization of MT over the total game experience.
On another note: it doesn't help anything to have people here telling those of us who are skeptical for the above-stated reasons that we "wouldn't accept anything from CCP" or "you're paranoid." These statements made be true in a few specific instances, but in general, it strikes me as an odd thing to say at a point in time when nearly everyone seems to acknowledge that trust in CCP is at a low point, for good reasons, and CCP seems to be hedging in their communication instead of opting erring on the side of comprehensiveness and clarity.
For example, Meissa made a comment how it would've been silly or ridiculous to include the "no plan to plan to include non-vanity MT" in the statement ... which, sure, if you phrase it like that, it sounds too silly to put in a serious statement. But anybody with some facility with language could find some way to express that idea without it sounding silly. It's a valid concern that apparently somebody at the summit thought was relevant enough to bring up, and it's a concern that was at the crux of the big yellow question.
So what I see are continuing lapses in communication, even as we are promised better communication. However, some things in the statement (and in certain comments in this thread) are encouraging. For now, I'm going to try to put this mess behind me and ignore the cynical part of my mind that's telling me that CCP did the absolute minimum necessary to placate the majority of players and that the issues are far from resolved.
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Lysander Kaldenn
Dead Reckoning.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:40:00 -
[1068]
You dudes do realize that the unsub button is the same place it's always been? If CCP in acts one of your nightmare semantic scenarios you can still push it again. People can protest and quit in mass again...
For now just accept what they said and stop being ******s. If it turns out to be a lie then we'll burn them to the ground. Until then gather up your bunched panties and dry your tears.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.04 19:01:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: Dennie Fleetfoot
One thing I support CCP in and that support has increased as I've read this thread is the issue of Multi-boxing. Some people really do want their cake, eat it and do an Oliver Twist and ask for more.á
Eve is internet ships and pew-pew. And we want them to be as pretty as possible. The drive for better graphics and the hardware that drives them is down to us. The gamers. We push the developers to squeeze every pixel they can from our systems. How do we push them? We buy the latest games that do just that. I'm building a modest gaming rig now to replace my two year old HP lappy. You can imagine how that liked Incarna. I'm building it so it meets the expected recommended spec requirement for the likes of Battlefield 3. So Eve should be a doddle for it.
Well I never gave a **** about how pretty the damn game looks like, if you are into that sort of thing you might chase down the latest releases instead of playing a game that is 8+ years old, seriously. We can fly our ships from the star map and zoomed so far out you couldn't tell if you were in a frigate or a battleship who the **** cares how pretty it is?
Don't get me wrong prettier is nice but NOT at the cost of performance. As a gamer pretty much the only reason I upgrade at all is new games, seems counter intuitive to me to have to do it for an 8 year old game. I understand upgrades from the new things that are done, mainly to make eve pretty for new players, big surprise, and fancy boys who need everything to look new. "OMG the forums look like they are from the 90's lol!" These would be the type of people to not play a game from a few years back because it 'looks so old/crappy' even if it was an awesome game.
If I'm upgrading I might as well stop playing an 8+ year old game and pickup some of those games from the last few years I didn't play because I was playing EVE. Seriously why sink good money into a system to run EVE when there are dozens if not hundreds of titles I may not have played from the past year or two that are mostly really well made instead of buggy and unfinished? After a year or so those games drop to bargain prices close to a month's sub of EVE and I'd actually OWN them. CCP might want to think about that for the next push they make to chase down new customers with prettier graphics or to satisfy the fancy boys.
Your battlefield 3 reference is wrong, you get that game knowing what it needs to run and that doesn't change, ever, not the case with EVE. You know what I need in EVE my damn windows, my interfaces, my market, my cargo hold, my hangar, I don't actually need moderate or uber graphics to fly. So why do I need to be able to render them just to run the game if I rarely or never use them? Why does my system need to be able to render CQ BS which should be optional if I never want to use them? Why are we forced to deal with CQ at all?
Does EVE need to stand still for all time, of course not, but don't toss **** on me and call it confetti for a party of how awesome your **** is.
BTW: I'm actually okay with 2 clients, not in CQ of course that thing is a POS, beyond 2 I couldn't say as they aren't all up and I'm not reactivating them any time soon if ever.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.04 19:36:00 -
[1070]
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 04/07/2011 19:36:35
Originally by: Heavenly Blues Meanwhile in Iceland...
Actually, this one is more suitable.
Originally by: Mag's It's pointless posting in this thread any more, CCP have done enough to quell the upset. Nothing has changed and the CSM have shown exactly how useful they really are.
Move along people.
You are sadly correct.
ÇÇP stole my heart, damn you
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Dirty Minx
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.04 20:07:00 -
[1071]
Reading between the lines, its clear that a conclusion was reached during a strokey beard meeting, that increasing revenue at the required rate by increasing the number of subscriptions, hasnt been, and never will be possible. So to get the Marketing Director and his team off the hook, they probably had a brainstorming session to see how they could increase revenues from its existing player base. ( I can see the flipchart and marker pens now ). Knowing Marketing people like i do, they hold great sway in which direction a company moves, and that direction is usually given to them by the head honcho or honcho's, ie the Board, so they will ultimately get their own way. To put it plainly, everything CCP do is ultimately driven by income streams and profit. They will set up councils and player forums to give off the impression that they care and listen blah blah....dont be fooled into thinking their attitude and focus has done a complete U-turn. It hasnt. CCP will do whatever is necessary to increase its revenue regardless of a few protest threads. If you think the game is based around the needs and wants of its subscribers, then keep dreaming. The game is developed in accordance to a business plan, the main aims of 99.9% of all business plans is to turn a profit. If the wishes/gripes of a few computer nerds sitting in their houses doesnt follow in line with that business plan, tough, CCP will follow that business plan to the letter and deal with the consequences later. The introduction of a secondary currency, so toons can look nice, is laughable. Open your eyes people....what was wrong with using the standard in game currency to buy a pair of white towling socks and black slip on shoes? Thats the stark reality of the situation, and here are some stark solutions: 1) Sack the Marketing Director, and employ a decent one who can increase the player base. 2) Fix the game so it works; the station walking has worse graphics & performance than "half life" (1998) 3) Dont treat your customers like idiots and morons. 4) Show some loyalty to those who have been around since the start. 5) Start being honest.
Of course, CCP will do none of the above, and they will stick to their business plan. Just remember "All businesses will eventually fail if you do what you want, and not what your customers want". When the client base starts deserting, i guarantee CCP will be looking for a buyer for Eve, or even CCP itself. In fact, thats probably part of the business plan. Rant over...i could be wrong, but rarely am.
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Rasz Lin
Caldari Uitraan Diversified Holdings Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.07.04 20:34:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Commander Criton Well that has put my fears to rest and we get ship spinning back so I'm happy I have re-subbed for another 6 month.
what? you got ship spinning back? Where is it? tell us so we all can spin our ships,
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Dan Estrellas Amigo
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Posted - 2011.07.04 20:48:00 -
[1073]
Edited by: Dan Estrellas Amigo on 04/07/2011 20:48:55 Only quoting here:
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the NeX store will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
This is the only thing CCP said about non-vanity MTs.
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Enuen Ravenseye
Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.04 21:58:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Dirty Minx Reading between the lines, its clear that a conclusion was reached during a strokey beard meeting, that increasing revenue at the required rate by increasing the number of subscriptions, hasnt been, and never will be possible. So to get the Marketing Director and his team off the hook, they probably had a brainstorming session to see how they could increase revenues from its existing player base. ( I can see the flipchart and marker pens now ). Knowing Marketing people like i do, they hold great sway in which direction a company moves, and that direction is usually given to them by the head honcho or honcho's, ie the Board, so they will ultimately get their own way. To put it plainly, everything CCP do is ultimately driven by income streams and profit.
Welcome to capitalism!!!
What's most shocking is not people's reactions to what CCP is doing, but rather their total misunderstanding of why businesses exist in the first place. Hint: not to make you happy.
Note: CCP is an inanimate business entity - not your ****ing girlfriend, so stop acting like they've hurt your little feelings, ffs. Nothing personal, it's just business.
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Bhaal Chinnian
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Posted - 2011.07.04 22:02:00 -
[1075]
If you define items as 'Pay to Win' to include such things that will 'enhance' a players ability to win then these things have & are already in the game. A nice example is the Price of a (hi-grade) Slave/Crystal Implant Set or,since Incursions started, go look at the price of the Lancer G2.5(Alpha or Delta). If you do not have time to grind Vanguard sites then those implants(each) will cost you roughly 2-3 PLEXES(as of todays market prices). Happy 4th!
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.04 22:15:00 -
[1076]
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 04/07/2011 22:17:31 Eve is hands down one of the most beautiful games in existence and that fact was a big part of what attracted me to the game (3 plus years ago). CCP should absolutely do everything possible to remain on the graphical cutting edge. I'm quite relieved that CCP isn't staffed with Devs who are into graphical blandness and Spartan aesthetics.
tl;dr: shiny and pretty is good. ~Gnosis~ |
Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:12:00 -
[1077]
I'll just leave this here.
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Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar Caldari Investment and Security Industries Innovia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:14:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Zarlis So many weasel words when all you needed to say was: - We will never introduce performance enhancing items to the store. - We will bring back the old station screen and you will be able to access incana from there if you wish.
See how easy it is. Go back and try again.
actually your last statement should be reversed they will keep Incarna but they will be returning the "ship spinning" if you wish to use it (for a limited time offer, until the current system requirements equal Pre-Incarna requirements)
what i think they mean by "until the current system requirements equal the Pre-Incarna system requirements" is that until Incarna is playable on low-through-medium performance computers.
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Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar Caldari Investment and Security Industries Innovia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:17:00 -
[1079]
Edited by: Yulinki Atavuli on 05/07/2011 00:17:45
Originally by: Imigo Montoya I'll just leave this here.
awesome!!! everyone who goes on the forums to troll should see that!!
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:27:00 -
[1080]
Edited by: Misanth on 05/07/2011 00:27:38 I was waiting a few days before responding, there was a few spontaneous reactions, but thought a few days thinking might help to put it more straight to the point, so here goes:
a) the communications errors are mentioned, and CCP post some that is reassuring and 'positive', and some that is disturbing and 'negative'. - The reassuring part is that CCP claims they will have a dialogue with CSM before doing major changes in NeX. - The disturbing part is CCP has not addressed the lies from their upper management, and they have once again pointed to the NDA. That's not the transparency we've been promised, and one could wonder how effective the CSM will (or could) be if they are lied to and always have an NDA hovering over them.
b) there's a very disturbing phrasing from Zulu, regarding the vanity or non-vanity items subject: "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store." - "it is .. plan".. "there are no plans" .. "have been no plans". In two sentences, Zulu still refuses to say "we will never have non-vanity items in Money Trading. He just claims there's no current plans. CCP keeps the door open.
c) As contract, the summary from CSM has some pressure applied. - I'm no fan of Mittens dramateurgy or 'elaborate bull****', but it was still fairly much right on. Was especially happy to see this quote: "The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
Summary; Less doomsday-feeling, somehow it doesn't feel like EVE is dying as much anymore. But the broken trust, from Hilmar in particular (who has been extremely arrogant, and absent!) from this drama, and the directives we know he gives inside to shut up (where's the transparency we were promised in light of t20 mr CEO?). The lies to both CSM and the playerbase.
All of the above leaves a sour taste, and I know that the effect is that I'll close at least six accounts based on recent actions. I'll step down my activity ingame, and won't be wearing my EVE-J!nx T-shirt anymore on nerdfes.. I mean gamer gatherings. Like, some weeks ago, at Dreamhack. And I can't any longer recommend this game to my friends. I.e. less income, less activity, and alot of free advertisement lost. But hey, I guess I'm just one of many, many, many customers. And some might actually enjoy and/or accept being lied to by CCP's upper management. -
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:36:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Misanth Edited by: Misanth on 05/07/2011 00:27:38 I was waiting a few days before responding, there was a few spontaneous reactions, but thought a few days thinking might help to put it more straight to the point, so here goes:
a) the communications errors are mentioned, and CCP post some that is reassuring and 'positive', and some that is disturbing and 'negative'. - The reassuring part is that CCP claims they will have a dialogue with CSM before doing major changes in NeX. - The disturbing part is CCP has not addressed the lies from their upper management, and they have once again pointed to the NDA. That's not the transparency we've been promised, and one could wonder how effective the CSM will (or could) be if they are lied to and always have an NDA hovering over them.
b) there's a very disturbing phrasing from Zulu, regarding the vanity or non-vanity items subject: "It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store." - "it is .. plan".. "there are no plans" .. "have been no plans". In two sentences, Zulu still refuses to say "we will never have non-vanity items in Money Trading. He just claims there's no current plans. CCP keeps the door open.
c) As contract, the summary from CSM has some pressure applied. - I'm no fan of Mittens dramateurgy or 'elaborate bull****', but it was still fairly much right on. Was especially happy to see this quote: "The Leaked Hilmar Global Email: We were appalled by the leaked Hilmar email and the atrocious and out-of-touch messaging it contained. We sympathize and agree with those players offended and disgusted by it."
Summary; Less doomsday-feeling, somehow it doesn't feel like EVE is dying as much anymore. But the broken trust, from Hilmar in particular (who has been extremely arrogant, and absent!) from this drama, and the directives we know he gives inside to shut up (where's the transparency we were promised in light of t20 mr CEO?). The lies to both CSM and the playerbase.
All of the above leaves a sour taste, and I know that the effect is that I'll close at least six accounts based on recent actions. I'll step down my activity ingame, and won't be wearing my EVE-J!nx T-shirt anymore on nerdfes.. I mean gamer gatherings. Like, some weeks ago, at Dreamhack. And I can't any longer recommend this game to my friends. I.e. less income, less activity, and alot of free advertisement lost. But hey, I guess I'm just one of many, many, many customers. And some might actually enjoy and/or accept being lied to by CCP's upper management.
I guess the TL;DR-version of that is: It is at times like these, where I will look more at what CCP do, than what they say. -
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HyperZerg
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Posted - 2011.07.05 00:44:00 -
[1082]
What do we know now that we didn't before the meeting ? Okay ship-spinning comes back. Logic lore and gameplay wise.
Anything else ? No .. CCP doesn't need a plan to bring us ... let's say the NeX as they have just proven us.
Btw, I'm really interested in the numbers of accounts canceled. I know therese a list but I for myself canceled all my 3 accounts and I'm not in that list.
As Hilmar said, don't hear what they say, look what they do.
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Merouk Baas
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.05 02:08:00 -
[1083]
You can kind-of estimate the accounts cancelled by looking at server stats for the TQ server and multiplying by 5. For example, if Sundays peak at 52k logons usually, but this past weekend it's been 49k, the difference of 3k * 5 = 15k accounts unsubbed. I.E. not much.
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.05 02:11:00 -
[1084]
Originally by: Merouk Baas You can kind-of estimate the accounts cancelled by looking at server stats for the TQ server and multiplying by 5. For example, if Sundays peak at 52k logons usually, but this past weekend it's been 49k, the difference of 3k * 5 = 15k accounts unsubbed. I.E. not much.
a) it's summertime b) 3/52= 0.058, so near 6%
If we do a little play with numbers, those 6% is probably more than the players that'd be effected by changes to major fleetfights, Time Dilation and similar.. -
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.05 02:26:00 -
[1085]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
Still Waiting......
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Syberbolt8
Gallente Swallows And Amazons AAA Citizens
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Posted - 2011.07.05 03:39:00 -
[1086]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
Still Waiting......
Don't hold your breath. The Resurrection: Support the Revised Dead Horse Pos thread in Assembly Hall |
Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.05 04:52:00 -
[1087]
What i would like to see is that we get our old station interface back. So user can dock, spin his ship do all the same as before.
If user wants to go to CQ he/she just clicks on the button (left corner) "go to CQ" then station environment loads up and user is in CQ.
____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A |
Stabmeldys
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:09:00 -
[1088]
I, as a mature individual, was heavily offended by reading the leaked email. Will wait for the closest opportunity to drop this selfish company away. Pathetic community caring policy ****. Lies
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Cpl Punnishment
Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.05 09:23:00 -
[1089]
Originally by: Skex Relbore I still want to know if we're going to get our save fitting slots back with out being charged?
THIS
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Jarmug
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Posted - 2011.07.05 13:35:00 -
[1090]
Well nice statement, but due to all the receint changes you are full of stuff. Doing away with the training skills and the social skills prove that. Any other changes to make it a xbox game will only hurt the users. It is NOT a shooter game for x-box or WII. If those people want to play then they should get some brains, intelligence and a PC.
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Andar Purvanen
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Posted - 2011.07.05 13:50:00 -
[1091]
Marketing is often about creative lying and I must admit this whole business smells bad. It also smells profitable.
Lots of cancellations over it? Maybe so. I'll bet there are estimates of subscription growth too provided the MMO becomes more like World of Warcraft. Like it or not, it seems to generate revenue.
Profitable revenue? Don't know. WoW seems to be spending like a fiend too.
Once CCP became owned its fate was sealed. Investors want ROI and they will push for it over nearly all human concerns to the contrary. Just look at CEO earnings.
Suck it up crybabies. In the long run EvE dies just like everyone and everything else. Enjoy what you love while you have it and move on without the bitterness going on here.
The pixels know not of love or hate or anything else.
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Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Caldari River-Rats in space The Ditanian Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.05 13:57:00 -
[1092]
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
Welcome to capitalism!!!
What's most shocking is not people's reactions to what CCP is doing, but rather their total misunderstanding of why businesses exist in the first place. Hint: not to make you happy.
Note: CCP is an inanimate business entity - not your ****ing girlfriend, so stop acting like they've hurt your little feelings, ffs. Nothing personal, it's just business.
Yes and No.. The reason I say that is I started at my present job as a client of the company, on the date i signed up, I was client # 1700 and 40 something, we now have a client database of 100K (and then some)
We didn't get to that point by doing what we "want to do" all the time, we got to that point by also doing what our clients (the ones who pay our salaries/bills/ect) wanted, so YES, business is business, it is intended to make a profit for those who started and maintain it, but NO, it is not a "we do as we want all the time" endeavor simply because if we don't offer our clients something that they want, they will no longer continue to be our clients...
o/ K.S.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2011.07.05 14:58:00 -
[1093]
Originally by: Kelnarn Shaelingrath
Originally by: Enuen Ravenseye
Welcome to capitalism!!!
What's most shocking is not people's reactions to what CCP is doing, but rather their total misunderstanding of why businesses exist in the first place. Hint: not to make you happy.
Note: CCP is an inanimate business entity - not your ****ing girlfriend, so stop acting like they've hurt your little feelings, ffs. Nothing personal, it's just business.
Yes and No.. The reason I say that is I started at my present job as a client of the company, on the date i signed up, I was client # 1700 and 40 something, we now have a client database of 100K (and then some)
We didn't get to that point by doing what we "want to do" all the time, we got to that point by also doing what our clients (the ones who pay our salaries/bills/ect) wanted, so YES, business is business, it is intended to make a profit for those who started and maintain it, but NO, it is not a "we do as we want all the time" endeavor simply because if we don't offer our clients something that they want, they will no longer continue to be our clients...
o/ K.S.
Don't waste your time explaining this logic to the deaf and blind here, they are still under the impression EVE is 'their' game and we have no influence on it whatsoever. Trying to explain to them that if all these paying customers left EVE to CCP to play 'their' game there would be no game is like trying to teach a donkey to talk. In fact I'm sure a donkey would sooner talk than the unwashed rabble here understand that it's not 'their' game, as a bunch of executives, developers and shareholders don't make a game.
In the words of Einstein, the only thing we can be certain of is human stupidity and CCP are the epitome of it. Fear not, CCP will kill this game, just as NATO are massacring men, women and children in Libya, for their own good.
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Andre Coeurl
Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
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Posted - 2011.07.05 18:22:00 -
[1094]
That the CSM "have been convinced" is no assurance at all, given that they could easy have been shown just the reassuring side of CCP's future plans. And, by all means, CSM's words have no legal value, just a personal trust value. On the other hand, the wording of CCP's statement may sound reassuring, but it isn't at all when you read the phrases with some attention.
"It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store." This is a very obvious backdoor, saying that the NeX won't sell "game breaking items or enhancements" implies that some other virtual store will quite possibly do that. That phrases are very, very different from saying: "There won't EVER be any sale of game breaking items or enhancements in any part of EVE online." Since they didn't say it after all this fuss, they don't want to say it. Plain and simple.
"The investment of money in EVE should not give you an unfair advantage over the investment of time. The CSM, under NDA, has been presented with CCPæs plans for continued evolution of the business model and agrees that nothing they saw breaks this principle. CCP has committed to sharing their plans with the CSM on this front on an ongoing basis." This, in other words, obviously means that the investment of money in EVE should give you a FAIR advantage over the investment of time, not an unfair one. So, as long as the advantage is fair, it will be possible to invest money to have all sort of elite treatment. How this "fairness" will be defined will obviously be a point of further discussions with CSM up there in the Iceland scenario, maybe in a hot pool with some caviar and champagne and maybe with a few blonde masseuse easing the post-flight stress. Just maybe. But the need to discuss each "step forward" in person with CSM is written, is it not. Fair exchange. Noble, we could call it.
What about things like "ship personalization", previously taken back on the ground of "game performance issues"? Now those "issues" vanish in front of that good old miracle-maker and lag-killer called CASH.
Boy says to Girl "I love you so much (I want your xxxx)" Girl says to Boy "I'm just 3 months out of a very important story with my ex (no xxxx)" Boy says to Girl "Here's a diamond necklace to prove my love (will pay for xxxx)" Girl says to Boy "it was just a one month long story after all (here's the xxxx)" --- --- ---
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P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
|
Posted - 2011.07.05 23:13:00 -
[1095]
1000 nex for 10 hours access to the ship hanger?
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Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
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Posted - 2011.07.06 00:48:00 -
[1096]
Originally by: P42ALPHA 1000 nex for 10 hours access to the ship hanger?
Good thing I like flying cruisers/frigs and own supercaps. Tad bad about those who don't. -
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Enthral
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 02:14:00 -
[1097]
Edited by: Enthral on 06/07/2011 02:16:01 They've claimed there never WERE plans. They've claimed there CURRENTLY aren't plans. They still haven't claimed there NEVER will be plans.
Additionally, the weasel-wording "...game breaking items or enhancements...", implies to me that there ARE plans for NeX-available game ENHANCEMENTS and items which enhance gameplay so long as they are not considered "game breaking" by CCP.
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Constantinus Maximus
Paxian Expeditionary Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 06:51:00 -
[1098]
Edited by: Constantinus Maximus on 06/07/2011 06:51:51 So a proper statement by Hilmar wasn't needed? Enough idiots signed up without it?
edit: well.... with or without... still idiots :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4YHvtEJgBc
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Ed Allstar
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 08:39:00 -
[1099]
Have just un-subbed my all accounts in protest at NeX pricing and lack of transparency on the issue of CG, Hangar, MT and the utter lack of consideration of what the majority of players want.
I will only pay for Eve access by buying plex using ISK earned in-game from now on, i wont line the pockets of greedy CCP by paying for Eve access using real money..
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Ed Allstar
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Posted - 2011.07.06 08:41:00 -
[1100]
http://i.imgur.com/g3hEB.jpg
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Kabars
Core Impulse
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Posted - 2011.07.06 11:52:00 -
[1101]
Originally by: Kitsune Sakai
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
There are a few other games that have introduced systems like the NeX store in it and it started out with vanity items and then when they started slacking in funds they decided to introduce item to help you leve up, more experience and then if you had enough cash you could buy "special gear" I hope this does not happen but if investors start applying pressure to ccp for better returns on there investment I would not be suprised to see Faction ships in the NeX store
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OmegaTwig
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
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Posted - 2011.07.06 12:15:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: Ed Allstar Have just un-subbed my all accounts in protest at NeX pricing and lack of transparency on the issue of CG, Hangar, MT and the utter lack of consideration of what the majority of players want.
I will only pay for Eve access by buying plex using ISK earned in-game from now on, i wont line the pockets of greedy CCP by paying for Eve access using real money..
Not to poke holes in your very noble (pun intended) idea, you do understand that the PLEX has to come from someone purchasing GTC's right? CCP does not materialize and seed the market with PLEX, that'd be stupid. So by playing the game you are still "line[ing] the pockets of greedy CCP"
-OT
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.06 13:33:00 -
[1103]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
Still Waiting......
And waiting some more.....
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Ed Allstar
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 13:48:00 -
[1104]
Originally by: OmegaTwig
Originally by: Ed Allstar Have just un-subbed my all accounts in protest at NeX pricing and lack of transparency on the issue of CG, Hangar, MT and the utter lack of consideration of what the majority of players want.
I will only pay for Eve access by buying plex using ISK earned in-game from now on, i wont line the pockets of greedy CCP by paying for Eve access using real money..
Not to poke holes in your very noble (pun intended) idea, you do understand that the PLEX has to come from someone purchasing GTC's right? CCP does not materialize and seed the market with PLEX, that'd be stupid. So by playing the game you are still "line[ing] the pockets of greedy CCP"
-OT
sure i get that, but i dont want to stop the playing they game but do want to make some sort of protest.
CCP's pockets may still get lined, but i'll be satisfied that it didnt come out of my bank account, is all.
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Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.06 13:51:00 -
[1105]
"We have communicated our intention here internally in very wide circles through the Virtual Economy Summit presentation at the GSM, our Fearless newsletter, sprint reviews, email lists and multiple other channels. This should not come as a surprise to anyone."
Qoute from Hilmar's email.........
Yep, Fearless was pretty clear that you want to add more then just vanity!
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Feisty Cadavar
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:27:00 -
[1106]
I was thinking about MT and the NEX market. I think that CCP should investigate allowing developers to market their in-game tools and whatnot to the citizens of eve.
I know CCP is looking into 'contracts' for developers and this would seem to be a win/win/win scenerio. It would generate a revenue stream for CCP, it would also provide a good interface to tell CCP whose a 'licensed' developer and would allow developers to get word out about their wares to the rest of the player population and perhaps make a bit of isk/money whatever.
Just a thought.
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Unshra
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:21:00 -
[1107]
Originally by: Syberbolt8
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
Still Waiting......
Don't hold your breath.
Actually please do. ^_^ |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 23:09:00 -
[1108]
I'll pass thank you...
Now answer the question....
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.06 23:12:00 -
[1109]
SNIPERS
give em back
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OmegaTwig
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
|
Posted - 2011.07.07 13:32:00 -
[1110]
Originally by: Ed Allstar
Originally by: OmegaTwig
Originally by: Ed Allstar stuff
more stuff -OT
CCP's pockets may still get lined, but i'll be satisfied that it didnt come out of my bank account, is all.
Fair enough!
+1 Internets for you sir
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JT Black
Amarr ALPHA REACTION
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Posted - 2011.07.08 08:20:00 -
[1111]
Originally by: Needa3 SNIPERS
give em back
Too late man, CCP has a new feature now its about reporting bots on a magic drop down menu D
Yo , can we pew or not yet ? We really need more of those features...
How about game mechanics in need of fixing or a button like Press to kill blob
Security team is busy playing WoT's while you lot click " Report Bot "
Now back to my resubbed WoT account
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Draycen Trell
Amarr 1st Praetorianorum Fabri
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:01:00 -
[1112]
'Special' summit....says it all.
I am totally flabbergasted by the logic or immense lack of it in bringing the NeX system into game. This ISK sinking money spinning wherling dervish of FAIL makes CCP look money grabbing band waggon riders and has insulted many players on several levels. I sincerely hope that everyone boycots this pathetic 'feature'. CCP, please work on your bugs....not clowns costumes. |
Ian1984
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:34:00 -
[1113]
Are the people who comment on how offended they are by the email and newslatter unable to understand english or is just me.... the email that was sent was succent and not meant for the wider comunnity it was amongst employees, the news letter was plainly a debate and discussed a number of intersting issues from a company perspective. Get a grip (to those who are offended) CCP can not function without its customer/client base. They are obviously monitoring things right now and it has been only a vocal few who seem to love expressing their discrungtledness on these forums that have actually caused a mountain out of a mole hill. Wake up we still have eve and there is future a head of us. I admire this company for being able to stick to and develop this game for so long and look forward to all the new exciting twists, changes and improvements that they will bring. |
Yeo San
Neoanarchistic Society
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:57:00 -
[1114]
I am still disappointed.
1. no excuse from ccp 2. talk about talks, but not results 3. nexstore still exists, eve will go capitalistic
if both sides claim victories (by compromise) it's a loss.
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jaguda1
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 10:29:00 -
[1115]
I too remain sceptical and disappointed over recent events.
My mining activity has ceased, since I perceive it as broken with puny faint beams that I can no longer see clearly or hear. In addition if one dares to swap out a mining laser for a salvager (using the Orca fitting service) to mop up the rats carcasses then the beams disappear entirely for the remainder of the session there.
Mining for manufacture is my primary goal, function and indeed enjoyment in Eve. I imagine few will understand how the life of those aims has been sucked out by CCP's ill advised cavalier and careless tampering. It took a while to reach 'God miner' status with multiple characters working in concert, and then even longer to orchestrate the effort into a profitable enterprise; all sadly now stopped while I search for motivation in CCP's words that things will be rectified any time soon.
Taking a leaf from Hilmars book I guess what I do is significant, not what I say here. That is such a pity and far cry from the early days of Eve when the devs cried out for feedback, even taking time to converse and respond to our thoughts and comments.
All I've seen so far is patch after patch primarily concerned with CQ, which I have switched off, MT which I will never use, and carefully worded general rhetoric that lacks key elements like: Never will MT's of any kind compromise time earned performance.
Thanks for my say despite the distinct feeling it will be ignored or more likely join the file named: Yeah we know all that, we'll get around to it the next blue moon, maybe. |
SupaKudoRio
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 11:13:00 -
[1116]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel
Because it's impossible to cover everything in one statement, had we tried to enumerate someone would have found we had forgotten and gone "well, they obviously left room for *this one*"
There is clear understanding on both sides of what we (actually) both consider "game-breaking" or "pay2win"._____
Ship Spinning:
There's 2 things people want ship spinning back for: 1) we like to spin ships, it's fun. 2) ship spinning took less performance than the current avatar view.
CCP is going to add as a replacement for the door wallpaper that addresses both concerns. It will not be the same old hangar view, but will be similar in terms of functionality and performance.
The bolded statement by a CSM needs to be explained..........
I have asked to have this explained multiple times.... It would appear that $$$ for advantage is still coming just not in a GAME BREAKING form.
What are you setting us up for????????
Still Waiting......
You're probably never going to get any meaningful answer. Probably because the forum guys at CCP have been instructed not to say anything, if not for CCP's current attitude of 'ignore the problem until it goes away'.
Anyway, the vague wording and lack of correspondence should be enough to tell you that 'gold ammo' will probably be available in a few months. Let alone the apparent contempt management have for the playerbase, as Hilmar has yet to apologize for the tone conveyed by that leaked email (and no, an apology that the email got leaked -- a "sorry we got caught" -- is not even close to enough). I'm sure someone will correct me if that has changed; I've been much more interested in other things. |
Shahirahh Orgasana
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:20:00 -
[1117]
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: CSM We were pleased when Torfi announced that the current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance.
We wanted to choose when we disembarked, have you been reading the threads?
This.
Expansions of ANY MMO should always give players MORE choices, not take them away. The Captain's quarters should have been made OPTIONAL from the very beginning, and the ship-spinning should never have been removed. As others have stated, when the hangar view is reinstated, it should be the default view after docking, and THEN there should be an option to disembark to Captain's Quarters.
As for the Incarna v.s pre-Incarna performance statement: frankly, Incarna performance will NEVER "be similar to" pre-Incarna performance on the same hardware. I mean, how can it??? You're talking about a highly detailed 3D environment with even-more-detailed avatar models and holographic displays updated in realtime, versus a single simple ship model rendered in a very basic hangar. Incarna must throw at least ten times as many 3D triangles at the GPU than the old ship-spinning.
I shudder to think what performance will be like when Incarna is expanded beyond the Captain's Quarters, e.g. actual station interiors where more than one player avatar is being rendered. You think GPUs are melting down now... |
Shahirahh Orgasana
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:32:00 -
[1118]
Originally by: Leocadminone "Until that functionality is added back in, the option to load station environments will remain in the Settings menu."
"current "Disabled Incarna Door" will be replaced with an environment that will provide similar functionality and performance to the pre-Incarna Hangar, and this environment will be available until Incarna performance is similar to pre-Incarna performance"
Which part of "we were promised a PERMANENT opt out of Walking In Stations" does CCP insist on NOT UNDERSTANDING?
There are a LOT of us that have ZERO INTEREST in this "Sims in Space" visual fluff crap, and to be blunt about it this crap will NEVER match the speed and ease of use FROM A GAMEPLAY STANDPOINT of the non-WIS environment.
As far as *I* am concerned, the day "Walking in stations" is FORCED on Eve is the day I and all of my alts unsubscribe from Eve to never return.
So much for "Good communication and trust between CCP and the EVE community has always been a fundamental priority for CCP". Retracting on promises made for YEARS is a direct contradiction of this statement, at the "actions speak louder than words" level.
MAKE OPT OUT PERMANENT AS PROMISED.
CCP, you also need to look at the massive increase in INCREASED BANDWIDTH usage by Incarna. The game is flat out UNPLAYABLE on some lower-end ADSL connections, which is what your current RECOMMENDED standards specifies. My current 3G Cellular connection is FASTER than many ADSL connections, yet the lag on gate jumping - docking - undocking has gone through the ROOF since Incarna, after already taking a serious bandwidth-based performance hit in Incursions. A lot of this appears to be the new "we are going to FORCE you to download ALL portrats" change in Incursions, and it don't matter how much you upgrade your "portrait server" when you're overloading the BANDWIDTH of a lot of your customers, many of which don't want the damned portraits AT ALL and even do everything we can to turn the damned things OFF, only to end up with tons of them on our machine ANYWAY.
IMO the whole "push out 2 expansions a year no matter HOW crappy and HOW buggy" concept is a very bad idea. Even SoE stopped doing that **** to Everquest, and it's certainly never been a POSITIVE selling point to anyone that's been playing MMORGS for any length of time. CCP NEEDS to take a serious look at putting some real effort into fixing their EXISTING game and the many LONGSTANDING bug issues with it, THEN you can start thinking SENSIBLE about adding new stuff.
QFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Shahirahh Orgasana
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:45:00 -
[1119]
You know, after all the drama and teeth-grinding and hand-wringing and everything else, I think what CCP needs to take away from all this is the following:
CCP, your paid subscribers ARE YOUR ONLY REAL INVESTORS.
WE are the ones giving you money, not some army of disinterested stockholders(*). We're the ones paying for your salaries and your cars and your homes and your computers and the food on your tables. If the entire playerbase quit, let's face it, you'd all be standing in the unemployment line the very next day, if not panhandling on the streets.
So you would do well to remember who's really in charge around here, and remember the old motto: THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.
...
Having said that, I'm sure the people at CCP who make all the game-changing decisions will never read this entire thread (or all the related ones from the past few weeks), much less my lone post. But I have to try.
I think CCP should never force a new feature like Captain's Quarters on the playerbase, when they know what the performance penalty will be. Just because I have a PC powerful enough to run it, doesn't mean that the majority of the players do. CQ (and the whole "walking in stations" idea) should be optional, as it's clear that many players simply don't want it. (I also read somewhere that the EVE client continually downloads character portraits in the background, which sucks up bandwidth some players can't afford and causes lag and other issues. Again, a "feature" which should have been optional.)
As for the NeX Store, I have to say that not only should there never be any obvious "game-breaking" items like special weapons or ammo, there shouldn't be anything that's even remotely analogous or comparable to items already present in the in-game markets. It would be great to have ship-coloring or texturing kits available, yes, or maybe even bolt-on parts that change the overall look (without affecting attributes, mind you)... but not actual ships or ship blueprints of any kind.
Finally, it almost (almost!) goes without saying that a lot of the current angst COULD have been avoided. There NEEDS to be more honest and open communication between CCP and the players. More facts and answers and details, less NDAs and secret internal memos!!!
----- (* - I seem to recall that CCP is not a publicly-traded company. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
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Ineka
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 11:23:00 -
[1120]
Good job both CSM and CCP to calm down this ridiculous situation due to a simple fact: bad communication
Every one can write blog's or notes but communication is a full time job, you guys can see from this situation that strong words badly used or understood can create this kind of situation, avoid it. Ask some advices to Rip Teg, it's his job and he does it very well
I think this whole mess is positive, people discuss = the game becomes better and CCP becomes better too.
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Jaik7
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 05:14:00 -
[1121]
still not subbed. still playing perpetuum.
most people i play with will tell you i'm a nice guy so long as you don't **** me off. if you do, i don't forgive easy.
you ****ed me off ccp, i won't forgive easily.
Originally by: CCP Shadow The trolls have been vanquished.
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Cain Anung
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 12:41:00 -
[1122]
Well, been on the forums for a while now, after the "incident". Its pretty hard to stay interested in these fora, since the amount of strings and posts are so many, that youd need a month to sort them all through. Some strings even has the same topics?! Or there are heavy cross-references, to and from the string. A lot of the postings are nothing but stupid adolescent ramblings, or single-line blah. A pity to undermine the community, in such a fashion, imo. The posts Ive made, has barely been noticed. And most reply¦s are just semi-insulting stuff, with no real value, in it self. Would be nice if there were a forum, with only serious posts, but I guess thats impossible.
And now I see, that CCP is rectifying some things, in coorporation with the CSM, which in my book, is just fine. Good to know CCP takes us serious, whatever some of you might think. Keep it up, CCP. Dont fear the players, but respect their righteous verdicts, when they are valid and respectful. Is all I advice. Its just a shame some players find it nescessary to laugh in your face and spit at you, even after you try to right the wrongs. I guess some nerds need to whine, all the time(you know who you are). This nerd is cautiously optimistic, and rather tired of the BS, thats being spread.
Whatever happens with this game, its still the only REAL space-MMO out there, and will remain so, if we all help make it happen. For those of you that dont understand that, go and play wow or some other 64-player, per-server-game, out there. Those are easy to play and youll get what you want. Leave this adult game for the adults....
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Cry Nova
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 06:21:00 -
[1123]
I'm not mad about the NeX store, the Captain's Quarters, the half-done expansion or even the blatant admittance of trying to rake in more cash.
I'm mad for two reasons. The first being your neglect of the core problems of the game. The second is that you thought you would get away unscathed.
How about instead of attempting to sell us $1000 digital jeans, you make EVE more fun to play; specifically put your employees that are assigned to peddle NeX merchandise to us on the lag problem. Incarna so far isn't an expansion, it's a patch. A poorly planned one.
If you're trying to grab in more subscribers with stories of epic battles, why don't you make it so epic battles can actually happen instead of seeing how many of us will shell out real money for a stupid monocle.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 11:39:00 -
[1124]
Originally by: "Dev Blog" It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only. There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
I'd just like to repeat this here and hope to remain convinced that in addition to the above plea no plans will ever be made to introduce non-vanity items for Aurum.
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Cattegirn
Intellectual Wookies
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Posted - 2011.07.19 14:13:00 -
[1125]
Edited by: Cattegirn on 19/07/2011 14:13:57
Originally by: Eterna Unum Edited by: Eterna Unum on 03/07/2011 06:38:30
Originally by: Cattegirn What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.
Wow...really?
Quote: There are no plans, and have been no plans, as per previous communication and CSM meetings, to introduce the sale of game breaking items or enhancements in the NeX store.
This statement is very plain english, especially when paired with:
Quote: It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
They have never planed, and never have planned to. What more does saying "We will not" add that changes anything if this doesn't give you warm fuzzies? Are you saying they have plans to change their plans that isn't actually planned??
I am on the side of needing better communication, and I agreed when it appeared they sidestepped such a clear statement in the earlier blogs. But if you want something new to complain about, there are more than a few already in this thread. But, barring that, get a grip, or at least start supporting your argument rationally. Please, enlighten me...
Edit: Another response dawned on me that I didn't originally think of.
Originally by: Cattegirn What they needed to say was "We will not", rather than "There are no plans". Quite honestly nothing has changed.
Obvious troll is obvious.
The problem has nothing to do with the post, but rather your inability to think and reason out what words actually mean versus what you wish they meant.
I have no plans, personally, to buy a car in the next 3 years. Will I? I don't know.
Get it?
Whether they meant to word it in a way that still leaves the door open or not, the door IS STILL OPEN. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the phraseology is deliberate to keep that avenue open for themselves. And that comes from spending years watching how this company operates.
Plans are like dreams and desires, and they are as fickle. Sorry that bothered you to point out, I'm certain you need a vacation.
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grunf Ijonen
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Posted - 2011.07.20 23:43:00 -
[1126]
Just shows that The CSM is **** atm...
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Andy Landen
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.26 15:23:00 -
[1127]
An idea for CCP. Take all the things which make Eve great and modify this new store idea to give everyone the best of what we all want. Allow me to detail the great things going for Eve which seem to apply in this case.
Vanity items is a great idea. Perhaps even vanity ship decals to personalize the ship. Player crafting is a great idea. A largely unregulated market where supply and demand mostly rule is also quite intriguing (that is actually the initial thing which got me in).
So here is my idea. Vanity items crafted by players using planetary materials and sold on the open Eve market for ISK like any other item. Might use: Polytextiles, Silicate glass, super tensile plastics, consumer electronics, etc. Boosts PI and Dust importance and gameplay, too.
The greatest part is that this idea simply translates this new currency back into ISK and therefore still grants you all those extra vanity dollars as people purchase additional ISK for those vanity items with real money through trading PLEX. Player crafted vanity items FTW. |
Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
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Posted - 2011.08.02 21:39:00 -
[1128]
I'm a new player in EVE. Less then a year playing the game. But my reasons of coming into it and loving it exactly the same as most players. No MT no P2W no brainless immediate fighting style stuff. To win you have to think, follow your strategy and it is close enough to real life but with sci-fi environment concerning decision making process and consequences to it. A game to play for years to come. But... after reading countless posts on this topic issue at various threads and then that combined statement of CCP and CSM with transcripts... WAKE UP CALL!
Take a good look at that statement and transcript! Without optimistic hopefull stance but like you would look at investment of a few thousand dollars in real life. And all of the old players invested a lot through the years only to count monthly payments. What these statements tell you? Nothing you don't know already. What these statements promise you? Nothing to counter the allegations. No plans... dont have plans... that is lawyers language which does not promise you that there will not be opposite plans next day after the statement. That statement avoids any and all lawsuits when CCP will introduce P2W of any kind into EVE since nowhere there stated that it will not be introduced. Especially that CCP promised last year that they dont have any plans for MT. Take a look at NoX. Isn't it an MT store? They had no plans at that moment. Or had they? In a year from now I'm sure they will have P2W kind of items and/or services. Reasonable thinking people here already stated that concern. Now take a look at the transcript of meeting. Close your eyes and imagine all that conversation the transcript of which we have. Can't really imagine it otherwise then on a stage? Same thing here. Its a staged scene and such conversation could not be possible in real life. It could be possible if named "journalist report of a meeting" but certainly not a transcript.
CCP to restore trust of customers in you the only thing you can do is to remove that NoX store immediately. And forget about idea of implementing it for a long time. Next time you try to install that store even for the best of reasons run a decent self-explanatory campaign with promises that there will be no MT apart from vanity items that will not affect the game in any way. Or customers you already lost wont return. But you know that without my advice.
I must admit that after learning about these events and especially after reading that lawyer language CCP/CSM statement and transcript my own trust in CCP sunk to all time low levels. It promises nothing. It only reassures suspicion about your next step on MT in light of NoX store and controversy around it. I already advised my friends to whom i recommended EVE to hold on about it and continue their WoW and Star Trek endeavours for awhile. I absolutely promise you CCP if I ever see any absolutely any item in that NoX store that changes any attribute of anything in game my subscription will be cancelled right away and I will make sure all my friends receive my recommendation to keep away from EVE.
I would seriously suggest to sack out your business analysts and anyone who had anything to do with that kind of strategy you guys attempt to impliment. We the players have seen the raise and fall of many decent good games and companies thanks to stupid decisions made by smooth talking people who had zero understanding or caring about anything but their pockets. These people always had golden parachutes and made sure they were the last to blame. It is players and developers who were always blamed. Players did not accept their "brilliant" ideas and developers wrongly implemented them. It will be real pain to see so wonderful game as EVE going that road. And CCP going that road right now as we speak unless CCP really change policy instead of "lawyer talk". Player base of EVE have way higher IQ then some of CCP top management would like to think.
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WeirdNoise
Caldari tagueuletoi
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Posted - 2011.08.25 07:57:00 -
[1129]
My mom used to work for the pharmaceutical industry. We have had a big scandal here recently about one of the local labs having caused the death of hundreds. Wise mom said : whenever one of these big labs issue a denying statement you can take whatever it is they are denying, bet on it being the truth and take that to the bank.
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