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Annihilate7
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:27:00 -
[1]
Hello all. I rarely post here but I am in need of some knowledgeable advice.
When in a pvp fight, which is more beneficial in any given situation: damage vs. rate of fire?
Any legitimate input is greatly appreciated.
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Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA Turanic Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:38:00 -
[2]
Both
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
Ghazra
Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:49:00 -
[3]
rate of fire adds directly to how much dps you do so they are both equally important.
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Annihilate7
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ghazra rate of fire adds directly to how much dps you do so they are both equally important.
I have heard that over time, one outperforms the other...any one else?
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Aquana Abyss
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Posted - 2011.07.04 17:55:00 -
[5]
compare artillery to blasters, that should help.
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ROXGenghis
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:39:00 -
[6]
Yes, for some reason (according to EFT) a 10% increase in ROF results in more DPS than a 10% increase in damage. I never understood why. - sig |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:39:00 -
[7]
The math on both still adds up to the specified bonus: 2%, 5%, etc.
With guns that use cap, ROF is also draining your cap faster. With Artillary guns, Alpha Strike is the goal.
So if your wondering which to train first, go for damage. But the end goal is both (all) to V.
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Annihilate7
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:44:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ROXGenghis Yes, for some reason (according to EFT) a 10% increase in ROF results in more DPS than a 10% increase in damage. I never understood why.
Yes! This is what I've heard...I am very curious to know at what POINT IN TIME does rate of fire bonuses outweigh damage bonuses?
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Exploited Engineer
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:54:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ROXGenghis Yes, for some reason (according to EFT) a 10% increase in ROF results in more DPS than a 10% increase in damage. I never understood why.
Because a 10% increase in ROF in EVE isn't a 10% increase in firing frequency, but a 10% reduction in the delay between two shots.
Hence, the actual DPS increase is 1 / (1 - 0.1), or roughly 11.1%.
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ROXGenghis
Missions Mining and Mayhem Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.04 18:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Exploited Engineer
Originally by: ROXGenghis Yes, for some reason (according to EFT) a 10% increase in ROF results in more DPS than a 10% increase in damage. I never understood why.
Because a 10% increase in ROF in EVE isn't a 10% increase in firing frequency, but a 10% reduction in the delay between two shots.
Hence, the actual DPS increase is 1 / (1 - 0.1), or roughly 11.1%.
Marry me. - sig |
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Barrak
Caldari Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.07.04 19:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Annihilate7
Originally by: Ghazra rate of fire adds directly to how much dps you do so they are both equally important.
I have heard that over time, one outperforms the other...any one else?
Over time, one 'costs' more than the other..... increase rate of fire will cost you more ammo or cap.
There is the school of thought that whilst you are 'learning' hybrids and lazorzzz you should opt for damage as the increase in rate of fire costs you lots of cap.
Though..... in my opinion, you should be bringing all the guns support skills up together as they large offer more efficiency vs training time at lower skills (if that makes sense)
==================================================
Just because you can fly the ship, it doesn't mean you can fly the ship
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grumpyguts1
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Posted - 2011.07.04 19:46:00 -
[12]
I have often thought on this.. maybe too much so what I decided, besides getting all training for both cause that's needed, is if I am going into a brawl I will fit for Rate for fire, my reasoning is that if you and your opponent are orbiting each other you introduce tracking/angular velocity to the equation so I would rather get off more shots than get more damage from a single shot which may miss/be less effective due to angular velocity.... this is all unproven of course, but lets me sleep at night
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.07.05 04:16:00 -
[13]
The most important measure is DPS. Now, there's also volley damage, which is the damage of all your weapons in one cycle. If you can finish your battle before reloading, then rate of fire is more important. If the battle lasts awhile, to the point that you have to reload, then volley damage starts to become more important than rate of fire. It's best to get both up and deal as much as possible over time.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:46:00 -
[14]
It's easy to test using EFT. Pick any ship with missile hardpoints. Mount as many launchers as you can. Now add a RoF rig. Note your increased dps and unchanged volley. Now remove the RoF rig and add a damage rig. Note your dps is very nearly the same as with the RoF rig, but your volley damage is now higher as well.
For the maximum increase from rigs, use one of each damage rig.
For high lag situations, you want the highest volley damage, hence the love of artillery.
Originally by: Krutoj You dont have a supercapital? buy PLEX trade it for ISK, buy supers. Just like any other mmo you can use your RL to pimp your character out (or tank for that matter).
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Richard Faze
Pimpin' Ain't Easy
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Darryl Ward If you can finish your battle before reloading, then rate of fire is more important. If the battle lasts awhile, to the point that you have to reload, then volley damage starts to become more important than rate of fire..
Huge clip sizes: Another point for the Minnies
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:32:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Barrak
Originally by: Annihilate7
Originally by: Ghazra rate of fire adds directly to how much dps you do so they are both equally important.
I have heard that over time, one outperforms the other...any one else?
Over time, one 'costs' more than the other..... increase rate of fire will cost you more ammo or cap.
There is the school of thought that whilst you are 'learning' hybrids and lazorzzz you should opt for damage as the increase in rate of fire costs you lots of cap.
Though..... in my opinion, you should be bringing all the guns support skills up together as they large offer more efficiency vs training time at lower skills (if that makes sense)
On this note, burst rigs are usually considered more beneficial, unless your goal is to limit cap use, in which case collision makes more sense. Active tanks light on cap work better with collision as do anti-neut setups. ~~~
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King Rothgar
Path of the Fallen
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Posted - 2011.07.06 00:31:00 -
[17]
Well, I don't think I've ever made the choice between damage and RoF, the ships have fixed bonuses and damage mods increase both. It's not like you can pick and choose. The only way to select is with the slot 10 RoF or all turret damage implant, I went with damage but it doesn't really matter. There are rigs of course but as a rule if you're using damage/RoF rigs, you're doing it wrong.
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Packe
Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.07.06 06:41:00 -
[18]
It depends entirely on the tactics...
But as a rule of thumb, if you are outnumbered, you need high alpha to get in and out fast (Alpha is the first volley)
Really modified DPS should be:
(Volley damage) * (Num Volleys)/((Lock Time + Flight Time) + (Time Per Volley)*(Num Volleys -1)
You usually dont have to reload your clip in a fight so clip size doesn't really matter. If you only need 1 volley, then basically the target dies as soon as you lock, very useful, particularly if facing a logi gang. If you are in a missile boat then you have to add Flight Time into your calculation.
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Solstice Project
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Posted - 2011.07.06 10:09:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Solstice Project on 06/07/2011 10:09:18 Talking from experience here.
Doing 1k+ dmg every 4.3 seconds in between 20-50km (depends on ammo) on a cane is awesome. Or, at around 4.7 seconds, 20-70km. And that's not even overloaded.
Also, higher RoF helps you switch targets faster, which can be quite helpfull. I'd take higher RoF always above more damage.
You also get more wrecking hits in the same amount of time.
Forgot to mention the guns: 650mm Artillery
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.07.06 10:23:00 -
[20]
High alpha is more important when you: 1. Get only one shot that you can count on (suicide ganks) 2. The target has a strong active tank (either local or remote rep), and only way to kill it is by breaking the buffer and cause bleeds. 3. The target has a strong passive tank, so you need to get over the peak recharge. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
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Raidon Al'Kazzar
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Posted - 2011.07.06 11:13:00 -
[21]
My personal feelings on this are... though having a high damage alpha is great.I believe more hits on target outweighs first strike power. This is also dependent on what you are flying and what you expect to fight. Bigger ships go with golly damage using drones for short range. Small ships RoF for better tracking and in close fighting
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Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.06 13:04:00 -
[22]
Being in Faction Warfare and big fleets I could give my input. My opinion is ROF is better all the way...end of story. Why ? If you want to be the killmail *****, get the best damage mods weapons implant...whatever and concentrate on ROF. With enough speed you should get the last hit which gives you the killmail. Everyone will hate you
Other reasons: ROF "could" beat shield regen rate and/or armor rep modules enough so that you can destroy him. But I use it mostly to get killmails lmao --------------------------------------------------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
Potato IQ
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Posted - 2011.07.06 14:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: King Rothgar Well, I don't think I've ever made the choice between damage and RoF, the ships have fixed bonuses and damage mods increase both. It's not like you can pick and choose. The only way to select is with the slot 10 RoF or all turret damage implant, I went with damage but it doesn't really matter. There are rigs of course but as a rule if you're using damage/RoF rigs, you're doing it wrong.
IÆve given up trying to figure what some of this means after several reads. Please expand as makes little sense and my PvP Abaddon, with damage rigs, would like to know why itÆs suddenly ædoing it wrongÆ
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.07.06 15:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 06/07/2011 15:42:12 All other things being equal (dps, tracking, etc..) Alpha > higher rate of fire.
If you're cap hungry (energy, hybrids), you won't cap out as quickly. Therefore, always fit the hybrid collision accelerator before the hybrid burst aerator.
You need fewer ships to "one shot" an opponent. One example is arty thrashers versus rail catalysts. You need 2.8 times more catalysts to alpha a target - which is important for destroyers that rely on kill and GTFO.
Assuming you can hit your target, your overall damage will always be higher. the dps can never make up for the initial alpha volley. If you can't hit your opponent, then you're likely dead anyways.
As the other guys have said, if your overall dps isn't enough to break somebody's active tank, higher alpha allows you to bleed damage past his active tank.
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