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Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:20:00 -
[1]
1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
2. The cost. Why is it that if you have a 2k player corp and you get war dec by a 1 man corp then it cost 100% the same as when a 1 man corp war decs another 1 man corp. The other thing about the cost that bugs the S out of me is how low the cost is. While in the real world it cost billions to go to war before 1 person dies it only cost someone 2 mil to war dec a corp then 50 to war dec an ali. The cost to war dec a corp should be more like 500 mil and 3 bil for an ali.
btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap. |
Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.05 06:48:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 05/07/2011 06:49:22
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
Oh yea, that makes sense. CCP needs to have a mechanic that 'takes over' a station and prevents the people being wardeced from docking there. Lets really make it a war-dec ------------------------
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Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 07:34:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Shade Millith Edited by: Shade Millith on 05/07/2011 06:49:22
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
Oh yea, that makes sense. CCP needs to have a mechanic that 'takes over' a station and prevents the people being wardeced from docking there. Lets really make it a war-dec
no what i mean is in real life someone gains something and there is a lost on the other persons side. But, in game there is no real lost because you cant die and you can get a new ship. Also, people tend to fly ships in war time that can buy over 3 times. What needs to happen is there needs to be a way to tell who won and for the corp that lost they need to "give" something to the winner or the corp that lost will go away forever. _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.05 07:36:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap.
Hi o/ i dont know you, but if your thinking of quiting over such insignificant things, please do so. Eve is so much bigger than what your talking about and if you cant see that i doubt you ever will. Look for the good in something, life is allot happier that way. - Nulla Curas |
Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.07.05 08:09:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Loraine Gess on 05/07/2011 08:10:15
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
2. The cost. Why is it that if you have a 2k player corp and you get war dec by a 1 man corp then it cost 100% the same as when a 1 man corp war decs another 1 man corp. The other thing about the cost that bugs the S out of me is how low the cost is. While in the real world it cost billions to go to war before 1 person dies it only cost someone 2 mil to war dec a corp then 50 to war dec an ali. The cost to war dec a corp should be more like 500 mil and 3 bil for an ali.
btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap.
Oh man he MAY leave this game, this one subscriber!! We care so much!
PS The costs associated with war are put towards logistics, maintenance, procurement of supplies, transportation, equipment replacement, training, etc. In-game it's put towards... well, the government. It takes a lot to equip a million man army, but it doesn't cost nearly as much to pay your taxes... --------------------
WTS forums directions and common sense
Google searches cost extra, people! I understand it's difficult for you, though, so I may discount it if you prove mentally deficient |
Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.07.05 08:50:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 05/07/2011 08:50:35 Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 05/07/2011 08:50:10
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
HIGH SEC is meant "safe" to players who isn't interested in any kind of pvp. That's why CONCORD. That's why no sov. Wars in high-sec is a joke. It is like training before real deal. You want to shoot someone? You have low-sec, 0.0, wormholes. You want to play casual style? Ok. High-sec is for you.
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 2. The cost. Why is it that if you have a 2k player corp and you get war dec by a 1 man corp then it cost 100% the same as when a 1 man corp war decs another 1 man corp.
the same reason here. War in high-sec is a joke. So no real effort is needed.
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th The other thing about the cost that bugs the S out of me is how low the cost is. While in the real world it cost billions to go to war before 1 person dies ...
you know: in 0.0 is the same as you said. You need to spend A LOT of effort to make your corp/alliance ready to real 0.0 war.
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game.
well.
1) Eve is sandbox as people say. Noone here is meant to entertain you. You only get what you want (or what other people want about you). You want missions? Do it. You want pvp? Ok, go for it! Mining? You have asteroids. Industry? Researching? Exploration? Trading? It is all implemented in the game.
2) You live in "kindergarten" as say people in 0.0 and low-sec. Don't wait here real deals. You want to effect to something? Go to 0.0, make your corp, grow it into alliance and kick DRF to hell. You will become famous for years
3) none really cares if you quit or not if you don't try to exit casual play style. I suppose noone will really notice your quit.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 09:18:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
2. The cost. Why is it that if you have a 2k player corp and you get war dec by a 1 man corp then it cost 100% the same as when a 1 man corp war decs another 1 man corp. The other thing about the cost that bugs the S out of me is how low the cost is. While in the real world it cost billions to go to war before 1 person dies it only cost someone 2 mil to war dec a corp then 50 to war dec an ali. The cost to war dec a corp should be more like 500 mil and 3 bil for an ali.
btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap.
If you think there is nothing in High sec worth wardeccing someone over then you are wrong.
War can: Prevent you from Mining Prevent you from Mission running Prevent you from just about any other form of PVE Prevent you from flying your shiny ships with safety Prevent you from Getting supplies to your POS Cause you to lose your POS Disrupt your industrial and logistical activity To some degree effect your trading capability Allows catecamps / station camps with remote sebo to 'completely' prevent you from undocking at all, or stopping you getting stuff out of a wormhole etc etc.
In short, it can prevent you from going about your business. For this alone it is vital that the ability to wardec remains. It's bad enough that older players can hide in NPC corps.
If you think it does nothing to your corporation you are wrong. The outcomes of an effective wardec are either to extort money or assets out of you, have your corporation move to a different region, have your corporation disband or simply to infuriate you.
Perhaps you are undercutting someone's market orders and must be persuaded to move to a different region. Perhaps you smack-talked the wrong person Perhaps your Level 4 mission boat has one too many pimp modules
The low cost is to allow anyone to initiate war dec proceedings and prevent it being a mechanic for the rich only.
I wouldn't expect much of this to be apparent to someone who calls their corp after their character, although looking at your name either you truly are hopeless, or you just trolled me
As for not being able to affect anything around you? Try having an imagination, there are plenty of things you can do to make an impact in Eve. Sitting in stations crying about a wardec isn't going to get you anywhere fast. Aim higher. ~~~
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Disastro
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2011.07.05 11:30:00 -
[8]
There is nothing wrong about the war dec system in eve. There is only something wrong with the care bears who believe they should be safe every minute of the day in high sec. Eve is a PVP game. The war dec system is PVP light. It is easy to evade getting killed. Just dock up the moment you see a red star in local. Use scouts before you go through gates. Etc.
Low sec is pvp medium. You have a choice not to go there and there are no bubbles. Getting your pod out is possible.
0.0 is pvp heavy. Bubbles, blobs and mega gate camps on high sec entry points often result in death to new visitors who are not blue.
Eve breaks newbies into pvp slowly and in stages. What moer can you ask?
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.07.05 14:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Disastro There is nothing wrong about the war dec system in eve. There is only something wrong with the care bears who believe they should be safe every minute of the day in high sec. Eve is a PVP game. The war dec system is PVP light. It is easy to evade getting killed. Just dock up the moment you see a red star in local. Use scouts before you go through gates. Etc.
Low sec is pvp medium. You have a choice not to go there and there are no bubbles. Getting your pod out is possible.
0.0 is pvp heavy. Bubbles, blobs and mega gate camps on high sec entry points often result in death to new visitors who are not blue.
Eve breaks newbies into pvp slowly and in stages. What moer can you ask?
Oh no, there is lots wrong with it. It favors the aggressor far too much. My experience over the course of about 5 wars has been: the enemy only attacks mission runners and miners, will not engage people with serious PvP fits, if it does engage, it is only to play docking games. For a noob, high sec war is not breaking you into PvP slowly in stages, it is introducing you to PvP against fail PvPers who fight dirty and have all the advantage they could ever want.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.05 14:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Darryl Ward For a noob, high sec war is not breaking you into PvP slowly in stages, it is introducing you to PvP against fail PvPers who fight dirty and have all the advantage they could ever want.
"Fight dirty"?
How is that defined?
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Cori Halcyon
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Posted - 2011.07.05 15:52:00 -
[11]
NPC corps. Game mechanic. Problem gone. Working as intended.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:15:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Darryl Ward It favors the aggressor far too much.
How so? ~~~
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Vordak Kallager
Minmatar Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.07.05 16:22:00 -
[13]
So this is a case of "Naive Carebear gets his bum spanked in a wardec and now thinks he is entitled to people's sympathy and that CCP needs to fix this obviously broken game mechanic because EVE Online revolves around him and him alone"? c/d?
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Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:18:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lady Spank If you think there is nothing in High sec worth wardeccing someone over then you are wrong.
War can: Prevent you from Mining Prevent you from Mission running Prevent you from just about any other form of PVE Prevent you from flying your shiny ships with safety Prevent you from Getting supplies to your POS Cause you to lose your POS Disrupt your industrial and logistical activity To some degree effect your trading capability Allows catecamps / station camps with remote sebo to 'completely' prevent you from undocking at all, or stopping you getting stuff out of a wormhole etc etc.
In short, it can prevent you from going about your business. For this alone it is vital that the ability to wardec remains. It's bad enough that older players can hide in NPC corps.
Key word is prevents. When I hear war I hear take. I never seen a war made to prevent something but every war I seen in real life its about taking or changing something. Instead of preventing the mining lets take the ore, instead of preventing PVE lets take the loot and money. Or just make the corp that lost join up and give everything to the winner so there can be some change.
BTW I been in a few wars and they had been a mix of no one showing up and the few that had didn't prevent me from pve, mining, and so on because you have alts and tricks that you can use.
But I must ask you Lady what can you change besides the market and who controls what system in null? I asked about faction warfare to those who do it and even they said you cant change the RPG story line itself and taking over a system does not gain anyone anything. I asked those who deal with blue prints and you cant make new things that has never been seen in game. I asked mission runners and they said you just repeat missions. So besides events and taking over null sec systems I cant find a way to change the game and the story line.
_________________________________________
As far as those who said o no its one person that is leaving, I said I might leave. There is many reasons why I don't like this game but once the game stops being entertaining and becoming dull then I will take a break or leave it. _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
Mac Tir
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Posted - 2011.07.05 19:35:00 -
[15]
''2th''?
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Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 20:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mac Tir ''2th''?
I guess your talking about the name and the 2th is just a cute way of saying this is the second character i made with this name.
i lost the password to the first 1 and i honestly don't care because the game hadn't change to much since i last play _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.07.05 21:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th Key word is prevents. When I hear war I hear take. I never seen a war made to prevent something but every war I seen in real life its about taking or changing something.
Then there must be something wrong with your hearing. Remember WWII? America went to war to prevent Germany from taking over all of Europe. The Vietnam war was to prevent the spread of communism.
In Eve, wars are a way to prevent people from doing things. However, if you are absolutely stuck on the idea of taking...
In Eve, wars are started to TAKE your stuff in the form of dropped loot and wreck salvage. They will also TAKE your tears. Maybe someone wants to TAKE a mining system from you by pushing you out of it.
Anyway. So you're at war? Instead of coming here to whine, grab some cheap ships, learn to fight, and have some fun.
It's just pixels and rows in a database somewhere. Honest. Losing a ship won't cause you or your family to die a horrible death IRL. Promise.
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.07.05 21:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
When I hear war I hear take. I never seen a war made to prevent something but every war I seen in real life its about taking or changing something.
Stop seeing the term "war" in a black and white fashion. This is EVE, not real life. Here, you cannot take over another person's territory (you can, however, kick them out of an area). Here, you cannot take another person's resources from them (unless you gank their transport which is full of it). Here, there are no Geneva Conventions or War Crimes tribunals... the phrase, "all's fair in love and war" rings loud in EVE and so you must learn to gain an advantage you can in any way shape or form (without breaking the ToS of course).
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
Instead of preventing the mining lets take the ore, instead of preventing PVE lets take the loot and money. Or just make the corp that lost join up and give everything to the winner so there can be some change.
*sigh* You can already take the ore. Just take it out of the jetcan (if there is one) and/or pop and loot the transport that's ferrying the stuff. Thing is, it's usually just easier to kill the entire mining op and mine the asteroid belt yourself when it respawns the next day. You can already loot a mission runner's mission... just probe down the player, warp into his mission, steal all the loot, salvage the NPC wrecks, and give the mission runner a smile. You don't even need to be at war to do this. As far as the losing corp automatically giving stuff to the winner... you do realize that would make war decs even more broken, right? This sort of thing can be grossly abused.
Example: - PVP corps dec "weaker" PVE corps, - PVP corp "wins" - PVP corp "absorbs" the PVE players' corp - PVPers take all the PVE corp's stuff - PVPers kick all the PVE players. - PVPers laugh and move on
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
But I must ask you Lady what can you change besides the market and who controls what system in null? I asked about faction warfare to those who do it and even they said you cant change the RPG story line itself and taking over a system does not gain anyone anything. I asked those who deal with blue prints and you cant make new things that has never been seen in game. I asked mission runners and they said you just repeat missions. So besides events and taking over null sec systems I cant find a way to change the game and the story line.
Let me clarify what others have said in here... the story of EVE is about YOU and YOUR actions. Not the NPCs, not the agents you do missions for, not the factions whose space you fly in/around/outside of, and not CONCORD. If you want to make a big change you have to do something that is noteworthy.
For example: Estel Arador was a single player. Not really special from anyone else in any way. Then Estel came up with an idea; New/"Young" players sometimes want to go out an enjoy all aspects of EVE, PVP included. The problem was many of these players had some semi-expensive implants that would be extremely tough to replace. They needed a Jump Clone so they could go back and forth between their "Implant clone" and their "naked clone." The problem was that Jump Clones required too high of standings to get from an NPC corp (you need about 7.0 or higher). So Estel offered up his/her high NPC standings to any player that would pay a small "donation" fee. Said player would join Estel's corp, sit in it for a few days til the standings kicked in, get the Jump Clone, and then go on his/her merry way. Today, Estel is loved by many for his/her contribution to the EVE community and by many "young" players who used the services to advance themselves.
Now, as for creating new stuff that has never been seen in-game... how do you propose that the database be able to see and recognize items that have not been coded into it? Again, this is not real life, this is a game and so there are SOME limitations to what you can see and do. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 21:37:00 -
[19]
Originally by: ShahFluffers Let me clarify what others have said in here... the story of EVE is about YOU and YOUR actions. Not the NPCs, not the agents you do missions for, not the factions whose space you fly in/around/outside of, and not CONCORD. If you want to make a big change you have to do something that is noteworthy.
For example: Estel Arador
I heard about Estel. But I guess the type of changes I would like to see is more you doing a mission and some how that means more than you getting isk and sec stat. But I also guess we don't have the tech to support a system like that so I'm kinda SOL at the time.
Thanks for clarifying _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.05 21:49:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th Key word is prevents. When I hear war I hear take. I never seen a war made to prevent something but every war I seen in real life its about taking or changing something.
Then there must be something wrong with your hearing. Remember WWII? America went to war to prevent Germany from taking over all of Europe. The Vietnam war was to prevent the spread of communism.
In Eve, wars are a way to prevent people from doing things. However, if you are absolutely stuck on the idea of taking...
In Eve, wars are started to TAKE your stuff in the form of dropped loot and wreck salvage. They will also TAKE your tears. Maybe someone wants to TAKE a mining system from you by pushing you out of it.
Anyway. So you're at war? Instead of coming here to whine, grab some cheap ships, learn to fight, and have some fun.
It's just pixels and rows in a database somewhere. Honest. Losing a ship won't cause you or your family to die a horrible death IRL. Promise.
Actually, America didn't START both wars and they jump in the middle of them WHILE they were going on. I'm not including any modern war because until 50 years past we cant tell every reason why today's wars has been started. I been getting at in real wars you start one to take or change something. So giving at that the term of calling in game wars that aren't in null a "war" is wrong since your just paying a cop to look away.
The only thing that I can think that can goes against this is if the entire point to the war that a single corp started is to take down another corp. And, if the corps aren't in null sec then its quite impossible to do this giving you cant take the other corps isk, ships, hangers, etc unless if you just annoy the hell out of the other corp. _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.07.05 22:07:00 -
[21]
Would it make you feel better if we renamed it from "War declaration" to "Annoyance declaration"? _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.07.05 22:34:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
Originally by: Andrea Griffin
Then there must be something wrong with your hearing. Remember WWII? America went to war to prevent Germany from taking over all of Europe. The Vietnam war was to prevent the spread of communism. <snip>
Actually, America didn't START both wars and they jump in the middle of them WHILE they were going on.
Heh...
Technically speaking, the US was actually the one who declared war on Germany. Granted, it was more or less understood that we would get involved at some point (at least, this was understood by the US leaders), but had the Japanese not attacked Hawaii (and thus galvanized a largely isolationist public) the US would have sat on the sidelines longer. As for Vietnam... we may not have technically started it, but we sure did facilitate it. The pretext that kickstarted US involvement was the Gulf of Tonkin incident where a US reconnaissance boat was "attacked out in international waters" by North Vietnam. What actually happened was that the boat was ordered to go into North Vietnamese territory and loaf around, trying to provoke a response.
But I digress.
For whatever reason wars have been started or whoever initiated them is somewhat irrelevant. The point is that wars aren't always about "changing something." Granted, change usually happens... but that might not be the "goal" per se.
The First Gulf War could be considered an example of clear cut "prevention." Iraq invaded Kuwait, other countries came in and kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait, the "takeover" of Kuwait was thus prevented (granted, this is a gross oversimplification of what actually happened, but that is the gist of it).
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
I been getting at in real wars you start one to take or change something. So giving at that the term of calling in game wars that aren't in null a "war" is wrong since your just paying a cop to look away.
The only thing that I can think that can goes against this is if the entire point to the war that a single corp started is to take down another corp. And, if the corps aren't in null sec then its quite impossible to do this giving you cant take the other corps isk, ships, hangers, etc unless if you just annoy the hell out of the other corp.
"Forcing" a corp to disband isn't all the hard. You just have to keep up the pressure and prevent them from being able to perform their usual activities or even leave station. Eventually people leave the corp out of frustration or you starve the corp of funds to maintain even the most basic of activities. Even in 0.0 space you can't "capture" a person's inventory. All you can do is destroy station services and/or take over the station itself to prevent people from using/accessing said inventory. This leaves a person in the position of either abandoning said stuff, selling it off, or trying to get as much of it out in one go to a "safer" location. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Craig Bennett2th
Gallente Bennett Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.06 00:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: ShahFluffers
Heh...
Technically speaking, the US was actually the one who declared war on Germany. Granted, it was more or less understood that we would get involved at some point (at least, this was understood by the US leaders), but had the Japanese not attacked Hawaii (and thus galvanized a largely isolationist public) the US would have sat on the sidelines longer. As for Vietnam... we may not have technically started it, but we sure did facilitate it. The pretext that kickstarted US involvement was the Gulf of Tonkin incident where a US reconnaissance boat was "attacked out in international waters" by North Vietnam. What actually happened was that the boat was ordered to go into North Vietnamese territory and loaf around, trying to provoke a response.
But I digress.
For whatever reason wars have been started or whoever initiated them is somewhat irrelevant. The point is that wars aren't always about "changing something." Granted, change usually happens... but that might not be the "goal" per se.
The First Gulf War could be considered an example of clear cut "prevention." Iraq invaded Kuwait, other countries came in and kicked the Iraqis out of Kuwait, the "takeover" of Kuwait was thus prevented (granted, this is a gross oversimplification of what actually happened, but that is the gist of it).
Ya, I guess my terms of what a war is different then some peoples terms and I will admit technically speaking if you look up the word war this and pvp is what it is http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+war&qpvt=war+define&FORM=DTPDIA but no matter which way you put it all it seems is when someone war dec someone else it is only just paying the cops to look the other way for a week or so.
Also, with the last thing you said about keeping people from doing their normal jobs is iffy. For corps that has rules where you cant do some things like pve in war then maybe but others like mine I just find a way around it by using alts, sending people out of corp, getting alts to find if someone is in system and so on. so for corps that has no rules or find ways around the war its just annoy and stupid. _________________________________________________
........Fly Safe
̿' ̿'\̵͇̿̿\з=(ò̪●)=є/̵͇̿̿/'̿'̿ ̿ |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.07.06 01:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
Ya, I guess my terms of what a war is different then some peoples terms and I will admit technically speaking if you look up the word war this and pvp is what it is http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=define+war&qpvt=war+define&FORM=DTPDIA
War is what you make it. If someone has something you want or does something that you hate; you can go in, guns blazing, and demand that they hand over/do what you want... or, you can infiltrate their corp/alliance, work you way up, and do what need to do to give you victory... or, you can bribe someone within the corp/alliance ranks to do what you want... or, you can pay off other people with more muscle to counter their blazing guns (and just make them blaze)... or, you can arrange for a "duel" to decide everything... etc. etc.
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th
Also, with the last thing you said about keeping people from doing their normal jobs is iffy. For corps that has rules where you cant do some things like pve in war then maybe but others like mine I just find a way around it by using alts, sending people out of corp, getting alts to find if someone is in system and so on. so for corps that has no rules or find ways around the war its just annoy and stupid.
Welcome to "meta-gaming" and the "highlight" of the game we call EVE. In this [small] way, EVE mimics RL war in that things are decided less by soldiers and "bigger" guns and more on spies, intel, and counter-tacics. And counter-counter tactics. And counter-counter-counter tactics. And then finding way to get around those as well. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Disastro
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2011.07.06 01:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Darryl Ward
Originally by: Disastro There is nothing wrong about the war dec system in eve. There is only something wrong with the care bears who believe they should be safe every minute of the day in high sec. Eve is a PVP game. The war dec system is PVP light. It is easy to evade getting killed. Just dock up the moment you see a red star in local. Use scouts before you go through gates. Etc.
Low sec is pvp medium. You have a choice not to go there and there are no bubbles. Getting your pod out is possible.
0.0 is pvp heavy. Bubbles, blobs and mega gate camps on high sec entry points often result in death to new visitors who are not blue.
Eve breaks newbies into pvp slowly and in stages. What moer can you ask?
Oh no, there is lots wrong with it. It favors the aggressor far too much. My experience over the course of about 5 wars has been: the enemy only attacks mission runners and miners, will not engage people with serious PvP fits, if it does engage, it is only to play docking games. For a noob, high sec war is not breaking you into PvP slowly in stages, it is introducing you to PvP against fail PvPers who fight dirty and have all the advantage they could ever want.
Got news for you bud. Wars in real life tend to favor the agressor too. If they didnt favor them then they wouldnt agress now would they?
As stated somewhere earlier in this thread Eve is a harsh game. Alot of things that would not be allowed in other MMO are highly encouraged in this one:
Griefing High sec war on bears Corp theft Awoxing (using spies to tackle blues for neutrals to kill) Ransoming
Many of these types of things might get you banned in some fluff game like wow.
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Rutilus Pallium
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Posted - 2011.07.06 02:46:00 -
[26]
The ONLY way there should be additional cost incurred is for a large corp to wardec a small one.
In my early days, our little 5-man corp was wardecced by a 50-man corp looking to get easy ship kills. We found out halfway through the war that they would declare several small corps at a time, knowing that none of them could muster enough ships to put up a fight. We just holed up whenever WTs showed up in local, because every time we saw one there were more on the way.
If I could restructure the way wardec fees work, it would be something like this:
1) There is a minimum cost involved. Let's say 10 mil.
2) Wardec cost works on a sliding scale based on the ratio of corp members. If you're declaring on a corp significantly smaller than you, it's going to be prohibitively expensive. I'm thinking in the range of 1 billion when you get around 6:1.
3) This sliding scale goes away once the declaree (is that a word?) is over a certain size. For the sake of argument, I'll say 50 members. Or maybe the tolerance for ratio increases the larger the involved corps are. This would prevent a penalty for a 300 man corp going to war with a 100 man corp where both could bring substantial fleets into the fight.
What I'd like to see is the small corps protected from much larger corps by making wars far too expensive to be worthwhile. This would allow the small griefer corps to wardec all but the smallest corps at low costs while preventing some of the outright unfairness that goes on today.
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.07.06 04:05:00 -
[27]
I suppose fighting dirty is par for the course, and you don't win wars by playing fair.
But I totally agree that it should not be called war declarations, it is annoyance declaration.
And for the record, aside from me being stupid during a war 1 week into the game and losing an empty badger, I have not taken a loss in one. Not in this char, this is an alt.
Personally, I would just like to get one encounter with the WTs without them running away, docking up, playing station games, and waiting to pick off mission runners while I'm at work.
The cost is too cheap, it needs to be doubled or so.
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Bad Messenger
draketrain
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Posted - 2011.07.06 05:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th 1. CCP messed up this term of "war" with paying off the cops to look the other way. While the null sec has it where you can take over someones stuff, IE stations. High sec you can't. So while in normal time you can't shoot someone in high sec but when you "war" dec a corp your really paying the cops to look away while you shoot them because that is all you gain.
2. The cost. Why is it that if you have a 2k player corp and you get war dec by a 1 man corp then it cost 100% the same as when a 1 man corp war decs another 1 man corp. The other thing about the cost that bugs the S out of me is how low the cost is. While in the real world it cost billions to go to war before 1 person dies it only cost someone 2 mil to war dec a corp then 50 to war dec an ali. The cost to war dec a corp should be more like 500 mil and 3 bil for an ali.
btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap.
So "you not being able to effect anything around you " and still you want to nerf one possibility that allows you to effect things, WAR.
You do "crappy missions" on mmo where you should play with others.
So actually you are quitting because other players are able to effect your game play and you can not do those crappy missions when you like and how you like.
Content in this game is not fancy NPC it is interaction with other players. You are the content, i am the content, other players are the content,
BE A GOOD CONTENT AND FIGHT WHEN OTHERS WANT !
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente NME1
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Posted - 2011.07.06 06:05:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Craig Bennett2th btw for those of you who know me in game this and other things like the crappy missions and you not being able to effect anything around you is why I MAY stop playing this game. Only time will tell if I get to tired of this crap.
We will all wait with bated breath your final decision in this matter. Is there a twitter feed we can follow for the latest updates?
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Syekuda
Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.06 13:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Lady Spank
Originally by: Darryl Ward It favors the aggressor far too much.
How so?
The aggressor as no limit to the wardec. He can keep wardec as long as he pays. Since the price is so low, he could continue this until the end of time. Thats what he meant.
CCP knows about this little missing feature. If I'm correct CCP will implement some kind of feature that will prevent a wardec to remain unlimited. --------------------------------------------------
Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome.
ISAAC ASIMOV |
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