Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:01:00 -
[1]
I have an opportunity to pay back a good portion of my total debts.
Current Debts:
Cosmoray Holdings Bond = 40B ISK Private Bonds = 59.5B
CRH Bond is via shares and dividends Private bonds are 12 individual investors who were paid monthly.
I have received some assets and ISK on a Cosmoray Holdings Character totalling about 62B ISK.
The question is do I payout all CRH Bondholders, and pay the remainder to the private bond holders? Or do I pay all debt holders a proportion of total recovered assets. All the returning assets came from a CRH character.
Not sure how to proceed. Input welcomed.
Payment can't be paid until next week at earliest as I am travelling for work, and the assets have to be liquidated. I will try to answer questions when I can depending on where I am.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:06:00 -
[2]
Public before private in my opinnion.
I'm glad that some assets were unfrozen and you have decided to honour you're debts.
If not then TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Holdings Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:10:00 -
[3]
Both bonds were publically launched.
The only difference is the payment mechanism.
CRH was handled through dividends, while for the other bond I didn't have a character to run a corp for share distribution so I just paid manually each month.
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:13:00 -
[4]
It's hard to say without knowing the situation. If this is a case of you recovering assets from an account that had been banned, for instance, then if these assets were CRH assets I would incline (by a very small amount) towards paying out the CRH bond holders first (a position that would be strengthened if there is the chance of getting other assets back to cover the other debts at some point in the future). So, a bit of context would help.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:14:00 -
[5]
If you have the intention of paying them all off in full in the near future then just pay out all the bonds now.
If its not feasable to pay them all off then I would propose you liquidate all available and pay each an equal %.
|
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:41:00 -
[6]
Withhold the liquidation for a year, try to recover despite the obvious, force everyone to give you their ApIKey and then in the end just give up. That's what I would do.
|
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 17:46:00 -
[7]
I think its probably better to give everyone an equal percent of what you owe them up to the extent of the isk on the holdings character.
It makes more sense than arbitrarily paying some and not others, especially if you don't receive any further assets in the future.
Props on doing this for your investors! Better late than never.
-Tutskii
Oh and by the way, the murblybux 5plendid! bond is open for reservations! |
Roguehalo
Caldari Roguehalo Ship Brokers
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:04:00 -
[8]
Who gives a f*ck what you do?
|
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Saiph Industries SRS.
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 18:55:00 -
[9]
Wait wait wait...
....so the scam was a scam, and it wasn't a scam all along?
My third-party service My loan service My Character Purchase Program |
Commander Disarray
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Wait wait wait...
....so the scam was a scam, and it wasn't a scam all along?
Yes, it makes no sense. I thought it was a scam too and now it's a "debt repayment"????????? Did I miss something here?
|
|
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:30:00 -
[11]
I heard the scam was a coverup for something far, far worse.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:31:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Commander Disarray
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane Wait wait wait...
....so the scam was a scam, and it wasn't a scam all along?
Yes, it makes no sense. I thought it was a scam too and now it's a "debt repayment"????????? Did I miss something here?
It makes sense. I always had some suspects about the scam, expecially since right before it happened I started hearing rumors about frozen / banned account(s), which would explain an inability to pay back.
Why didn't he just say that and pretended to come up with a terrible lolscam, we are not given to know. Maybe before paying people back, Cosmoray could expand on what the hell actually happened.
Auditing | Research | 3rd Party | Collateral Holding | EvE RL Charity |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:37:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 06/07/2011 19:46:25
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Maybe before paying people back, Cosmoray could expand on what the hell actually happened.
Frankly, my dear Scarlet, I don't give a damn either way about what actually happened at this point anymore, and using MD as a public opinion poll to try and guess what the most beneficial public reaction would be is quite appalling. To me, it sounds like a desperate last-ditch attempt of regaining public trust to set it all up for an even larger later scam... but then gain, I am a cynical old crone, so, meh.
As for repayment options, I doubt it matters much, since you'll still have disgruntled former investors either way. It's only a matter of whether you want all investors to be equally less disgruntled, or whether you want some to be somewhat satisfied and the rest even more disgruntled than before. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
|
Claire Voyant
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Maybe before paying people back, Cosmoray could expand on what the hell actually happened.
Maybe you could leave that decision to the people he owes money to.
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Maybe before paying people back, Cosmoray could expand on what the hell actually happened.
Maybe you could leave that decision to the people he owes money to.
I think the 'before' is probably not to be taken literally.
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:42:00 -
[16]
From what I understand we are not allowed to talk about it on the forums, take it elsewhere. And atleast give him some respect for coming back and doing this when he realistically has no reason to do so.
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:50:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Atima From what I understand we are not allowed to talk about it on the forums
You're discouraged from talking about details of a ban as far as questioning GM actions, and you can't post GM correspondence verbatim, but there's nothing stopping nor discouraging anybody from saying "I had X accounts banned for reason Y with a duration of Z days". _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
|
Edwin Rothbard
Interstellar Arbitrage
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Atima And atleast give him some respect for coming back and doing this when he realistically has no reason to do so.
Has been scammer trying to extend his 15 minutes. Nothing to see here move along. [ Casino | Loans ] |
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:51:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Tutskii on 06/07/2011 19:51:45 To be honest, other than idle curiosity there is no reason to care about what really happened, and its none of anybody's business other than Cosmo's.
He was unable to pay and is now looking at a way of doing so, that is all that it should come down to.
There is no point or reason to crucify him, or put him in an uncomfortable position when he is attempting to do the right thing (arguably).
I think a better phrasing would be "Should he decide to tell what really happened, thats awesome, but he is here considering and looking for a way to pay back the people whose trust he defrauded, and that is awesome enough".
I think everyone equally disgruntled is the better option.
Oh and by the way, the murblybux 5plendid! bond is open for reservations! |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:56:00 -
[20]
You have a pretty low standard with regards to what's "awesome".
I'd feel too generous even in using "commendable" instead. I probably would have used "finally a bit of the right thing". _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
|
|
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 19:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tutskii Edited by: Tutskii on 06/07/2011 19:51:45 To be honest, other than idle curiosity there is no reason to care about what really happened, and its none of anybody's business other than Cosmo's.
He was unable to pay and is now looking at a way of doing so, that is all that it should come down to.
There is no point or reason to crucify him, or put him in an uncomfortable position when he is attempting to do the right thing (arguably).
I think a better phrasing would be "Should he decide to tell what really happened, thats awesome, but he is here considering and looking for a way to pay back the people whose trust he defrauded, and that is awesome enough".
I think everyone equally disgruntled is the better option.
Other than the fact that he used his 'scam' to make a variety of claims, including some based on his past interactions with other people, and clearing up the historical record in that regard is of some importance.
|
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:00:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Tutskii on 06/07/2011 20:00:25
Originally by: Akita T You have a pretty low standard with regards to what's "awesome".
I'd feel too generous even in using "commendable" instead. I probably would have used "finally a bit of the right thing".
Perspective is required in order to determine what is awesome and what is not. Don't forget where you are!
I think awesome is better suited than commendable as keeping one's commitment's is not necessarily so, and is actually more along the lines of "expected".
But I think my point comes down to: Let's not start a crucifiction and flamefest especially in one of the places where the right thing is arguably seeking to be done.
Especially when the popcorn and marshmellows seem to be coming from people that didn't even invest.
The stone throwing can perhaps, if it must be held, be after he pays people back.
But that's just me.
Oh and by the way, the murblybux 5plendid! bond is open for reservations! |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:02:00 -
[23]
Cosmoray - First thing you need to do is make sure everyone who had a bond still exists..
I don't know how many people you had, but some of them might not even exist in game anymore. Those you can clear off the table instantly. Do this by sending each one of them 1 ISK. Easiest way to know if they are in game or not.
From that point I would take the total sum of all holders both private and public and issue back proportions to each according their contribution. You have 62B for 99.5B, I doubt any one, Public or Private will really care about the fact they didn't get it in full, just the fact they got something back. ---
Thinking outside the box is good, but when the Box has everything you need, no need to create something new... |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:21:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Cista2 on 06/07/2011 20:26:47
Originally by: Tutskii He was unable to pay
Careful there. How do you know he was unable to pay? He claimed he didn't *want* to pay. He claimed he had stolen xx billion isk from MD investors.
Today he says he will pay some back. We do not really know how much more he owns. And we do not know what his assets were back then.
Anyway, it takes some gutso to return to the board like this... so I tip my hat/scarf whatever. ----------------------- "Signatures" trade chatroom / Universal Railways |
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:30:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Cista2 Edited by: Cista2 on 06/07/2011 20:26:47
Originally by: Tutskii He was unable to pay
Careful there. How do you know he was unable to pay? He claimed he didn't *want* to pay. He claimed he had stolen xx billion isk from MD investors.
Today he says he will pay some back. We do not really know how much more he owns. And we do not know what his assets were back then.
Anyway, it takes some gutso to return to the board like this... so I tip my hat/scarf whatever.
Good point!
I stand corrected, there is indeed no way to know if he could, or could not pay, and by his statements, he could.
Oh and by the way, the murblybux 5plendid! bond is open for reservations! |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:37:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tutskii Good point!
I stand corrected, there is indeed no way to know if he could, or could not pay, and by his statements, he could.
Actually, iirc the claim was that it was a Ponzi that had collapsed and that the isk had been spent as it had been borrowed.
|
Liberty Eternal
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:39:00 -
[27]
I'm posting in a troll thread
|
Atima
Minmatar House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 20:49:00 -
[28]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Tutskii Good point!
I stand corrected, there is indeed no way to know if he could, or could not pay, and by his statements, he could.
Actually, iirc the claim was that it was a Ponzi that had collapsed and that the isk had been spent as it had been borrowed.
He lied.
|
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:14:00 -
[29]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Tutskii Good point!
I stand corrected, there is indeed no way to know if he could, or could not pay, and by his statements, he could.
Actually, iirc the claim was that it was a Ponzi that had collapsed and that the isk had been spent as it had been borrowed.
Fixed. The edit is what I meant to say. I need to sleep more ;/
Oh and by the way, the murblybux 5plendid! bond is open for reservations! |
flakeys
The Great cornholio's
|
Posted - 2011.07.06 21:16:00 -
[30]
troll often?
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |