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Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
448
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Standings - the single most powerful game move
It can fold entire alliances instantly (without a single shot fired) It can prevent access to assets It can turn a war from hopelessly lost, into a landslide victory event It can make your overview spaz out or be completely serene It can inhibit people from even wanting to log in and play the game for weeks at a time. It costs zero ISK to employ, modify or threaten entities with deletion of. It's that 800lb gorilla that CCP will have to tackle one day.
It needs removing from the game as is and bringing back in redesigned to require ISK for alterations and be contractually agreed upon.
Yupe, I played CIV recently and Yupe, they have treaties perfected. EVE, looks like they forgot to code this part completely. Looks and feels like a placeholder. It's a valid mechanic in eve and I love it, so please fix it!
Done right, everything as it is now will be again. However both parties will have equal footing and the overpowered nature will balance itself as entities find they can't afford to be blue without some representation or value (both directions).
Just kick it about a bit in your brain. Let it fester there.
Expecting screaming from those that benefit from the curent Free mechanics and their Alts mostly.
However too late for you. Seed sown!
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
2740
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Care to elaborate? What mechanics would you import from those games you mentioned?
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
198
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
1 bil isk and we can be friends.
See, I made a treaty and I didn't need a fancy interface! |
baltec1
Bat Country
2137
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
James 315 wrote:Care to elaborate? What mechanics would you import from those games you mentioned?
I think he wants to change the game so that it will cost money for one corp to set another red. Which seems a bit silly. |
Havoc Zealot
Carpe Infidelis Out of Order.
11
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Posted - 2012.09.17 14:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is one of the few ideas I ever commented on and I just wanted to let you know that this is a dumb one.
You don't need formal treaty systems to be friends with someone the whole thing is based off of trust the way it should be. If someone wants to stab someone in the back then so be it...trust broken. |
stoicfaux
1620
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Spurty wrote: Yupe, I played CIV recently and Yupe, they have treaties perfected. EVE, looks like they forgot to code this part completely. Looks and feels like a placeholder. It's a valid mechanic in eve and I love it, so please fix it!
Done right, everything as it is now will be again. However both parties will have equal footing and the overpowered nature will balance itself as entities find they can't afford to be blue without some representation or value (both directions).
What good are treaties if you can't break them unilaterally, preferably at the worst possible time for your frenemy?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áEve Gate Graveyard for Player Memorials-á |
highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
303
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hey, I like you, lets be friends
why should that cost money?
All of the implications you listed are not from a broken "mecahnic" but is generally from a broken "friendship", espionage, under the table deals and diplomacy. Things that EVE is built on.
Aside from station access in nullsec, all it does is label someone red or blue for ease of reference in local. Even if you took it away, certain alliances would still be hostile to each other and shoot at each other and make shady back-room deals.
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |
The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
44
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
BUT TEST WILL SURELY GO BROKE IF WE HAVE TO PAY TO BLUE EVERYONE |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1167
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:14:00 -
[9] - Quote
"Wikipedia" wrote:Wild male gorillas weigh 135 to 180 kg (300 to 400 lb) while adult females usually weigh half as much as adult males at 68GÇô113 kg (150GÇô250 lb). ... Occasionally, a silverback of over 1.8 metres (5 ft 11 in) and 230 kg (510 lb) has been recorded in the wild. Obese gorillas in captivity can weigh as much as 270 kg (600 lb)
Clearly your 800lb gorilla is morbidly obese. It's no wonder no one wants to talk about it.
Also, paying for blues is dumb. But if you want to pay me, I'll say I'm your friend.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1539
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your idea and analysis is about as good as your spelling of "yup".
Standings have very little effect if they are not enforced, as there is absolutely nothing preventing anyone from shooting blues or fleeting with reds. In fact, my corp uses orange (-5) standings to mark a special kind of friendly.
Your comparison to Civilization is very poor. In Civ, you simply cannot enter others' territory while at peace without open borders. You simply cannot attack people you are not at war with. Civilization has those mechanics built in because you are controlling entire nations/armies, and don't have to worry about your subordinates doing weird stuff and shooting your allies in the face.
In Eve, you are a single person, and the only one you truly control is yourself. Everyone else just has to listen to you, and standings are a way to communicate what your wishes are to them. Standings really have absolutely no impact on gameplay. If you made people pay ISK for such an inconsequential feature, they would just stop using it altogether, and use an external service to do it for free (I can whip up a website to do it in a few hours).
Hmm... I just realized. OP is probably a troll. Oh well. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
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Denidil
Evocations of Shadow Eternal Evocations
518
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
OP i require that you pay me 1bn isk a month not to be podded into oblivion Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
115
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Stopped reading shortly into post.
What?!?!?!?!?! I don't even... what?!?!?!!? |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
991
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Posted - 2012.09.17 15:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Any in-game system that restricts what people can do will be bypassed via out of game tools. For example, an alliance e-mail goes out saying "These alliances are on our side and these are enemy. Make note of them and check the alliance of the target before shooting".
Yeah, that sounds like all sorts of fun.
Also, checking to see if a particular person is on a list: Is not that the sort of busy work we got computers to do for us? That's all "setting standings" is. Making a list, and having the computer tells us if a particular pilot is on that list or not. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Noriko Mai
571
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Posted - 2012.09.17 17:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
F&I |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
350
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Any in-game system that restricts what people can do will be bypassed via out of game tools. For example, an alliance e-mail goes out saying "These alliances are on our side and these are enemy. Make note of them and check the alliance of the target before shooting".
this
e.g. it would be relatively trivial to replace cached player portraits of friendlies/hostiles with an image that shows a blue plus or red minus as appropriate I'm a NPC corp alt, any argument I make is invalid. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
339
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Additionally, standings may be changed often for special events.
Red vs blue has small fleet free for all weekends. To set up fleets viewable to both sides, FCs must set standings appropriately, then create fleets based on those standings. Yet once the weekend is over, it's back to normal. Why should we be charged for such a simple thing as having ffas?
This seems like a poorly thought out idea by the op. I came in hoping to see some valud suggestions, but all we see is a poorly thought out idea.
Honestly, I think the standings system could be improved by increasing the number of options available. Perhaps a numeric -5 to +5. You could then have blue allies (+5), light blue friendlies (+4), indy assets (+3), tolerated entities (+2), etc. |
Trillian Stargazer
ORIGINal Pancakes
2
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:53:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP was going to introduce Treaties at one point and time. It never made it to the expansion. This was recently, ie. year or two ago.
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Astroniomix
Thorn Project
229
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Posted - 2012.09.17 18:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
I've noticed that people who post bad ideas also tend to be too dumb to find the right subforum.
Your idea fixes nothing. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
82
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
Standings work fine. I'd rather see some slight automation on them rather then some complete workaround. I'd like to be able to set standings for an agreed period of time, for example. Or put them up for contract. Tolls and mercenary work come to mind. If anything, I'd even advocate as much freedom with standings as possible. There is enough of a social dynamic in EvE itself to construct situations where you absolutely cannot afford to strain standings. The fact that this can happen anyway (or regardless) of current standings is what keeps politics in constant flux.
I have to admit I usually deal with standings on a personal/corporate level, I can't speak for the larger implications they might have on sov holding alliances. Personally I would dislike having a cost associated with standings on a corporate level, it would simply associate a cost to acquiring intel. Because that's what standings are: no more then a few uppety dudes coloring your overview to what they believe are your friends and enemies. If you disagree with what you see, become a diplomat or change your political preference.
Diplomat is a Role. Players can change corporations every 24h or fall back to an NPC corp. I'd say the tools are already available, and are working as intended. |
ugh zug
52
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
im all for isk sinks Want me to shut up?-á Send me ISK and i'll stop giving suggestions to CCP that make sense. Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |
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Grumpymunky
Super Monkey Tribe of Danger
544
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
I am NOT 800lb. Post with your monkey. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1539
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Posted - 2012.09.17 22:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grumpymunky wrote:I am NOT 800lb. Silly monkey, gorillas are apes, not monkeys. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
261
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Posted - 2012.09.17 23:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Astroniomix wrote:I've noticed that people who post bad ideas also tend to be too dumb to find the right subforum.
Your idea fixes nothing. I think you're on to something. |
Smiknight
The Plebian Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.17 23:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Came expecting large simians. Left disappointed. Do you understand how much resurrection hurts? |
Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
272
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Posted - 2012.09.18 00:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'll be your 800 lb gorilla.
(I will of course require appropriate ISK compensation for the necessary standings.) "For example, if you are thinking about selling a Republic Fleet Firetail as a regular Firetail, be sure that the market volume is high on regular Firetails and that there are plenty of buy/sell contracts for Republic Fleet Firetails. [...] The players most interested in Republic Fleet Firetails are going to be players flying regular ones."-á -- PB |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
286
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Posted - 2012.09.18 00:31:00 -
[26] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:This is one of the few ideas I ever commented on and I just wanted to let you know that this is a dumb one.
You don't need formal treaty systems to be friends with someone the whole thing is based off of trust the way it should be. If someone wants to stab someone in the back then so be it...trust broken.
Treaties are for agreements. Whether involving monetized transactions or trade of some kind, or diplomatic reduction of hostilities and even temporary peace between nations, they do not exist when it is nothing more than trust and no record of the event exists. Not longer than the persons making the agreement have the power to hold others to them anyway. I have deleted and cleared my signature 7 times and it still won't go away. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
752
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Posted - 2012.09.18 00:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
cant blue alliances? then blue corps... cant blue corps? blue the individual members can't do that? ok lets all join the same alliance.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1482
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Posted - 2012.09.18 02:02:00 -
[28] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:cant blue alliances? then blue corps... cant blue corps? blue the individual members can't do that? ok lets all join the same alliance. They will have to pair it with the old maximum-limit-on-members. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
91
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Posted - 2012.09.18 02:21:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yes, lets make things more annoying for Null Sec Alliances not harder.
One extra button press and a few hundred mill will not break up any coalitions, or Alliances, or pact. |
Snow Axe
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
476
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Posted - 2012.09.18 05:38:00 -
[30] - Quote
The game's login function causes untold damage to the landscape of the game thanks to the players that use it to log in and play internet spaceships. CCP please fix this ASAP. |
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