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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:32:00 -
[1]
CCP Zinfandel's newest dev blog gives us information about the Noble Exchange's pricing strategy. You may read the blog here.
DE version RU version |
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:39:00 -
[2]
Edited by: ChromeStriker on 08/07/2011 11:42:15 Edited by: ChromeStriker on 08/07/2011 10:53:43
First
Edit: ok.... ok kinda makes sense....
Edit again: ok turns out what i thought was infact what it is, and is prorobly why i thought what i thought in the first place
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CCP Zinfandel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:40:00 -
[3]
Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions? |
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:40:00 -
[4]
Hmm...well, happy to read about the tiered pricing from the horses mouth, but it was a rather underwhelming Dev blog. I guess I expected more pictures showing the various items in the different tiers rather than one pic that doesn't differentiate the tiers at all. Guess I'll just have to keep watching the NeX store to truly understand the pricing structure. |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:40:00 -
[5]
Okay looking at this did marketing get a degree in marketing?
I mean seriously your low tier items are the price of a single plex....way to not sell through overpricing.
I mean more power to you but I'm not wasting a PLEX to buy 1 clothing item. I don't see many folks doing that either. |
Agrikaan
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:42:00 -
[6]
EVE - The Space Barbie. |
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CCP Zinfandel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:46:00 -
[7]
Downtime starts in 15 minutes and will make some small tweaks to the store goods at that time (and add a few new items.) |
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Atai Pekoe
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:48:00 -
[8]
good thing you start to explain this to us. i like the concept and i think this could work. i really like the idea of having design studios in new eden and you can choose to wear a really expencive jacket from "Bugo Hoss Jita" or something. Or you just buy your ten Dollar Jeans from some crappy store and be happy withit cause it fits your style.
keep telling us more. i think we all have to handle this very carefully cause i dont think there is another MMO out there with this kind of item-price-strategy (proof me wrong?!?) ...it COULD become a great concept... like i said! |
Reachok
Amarr Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:49:00 -
[9]
Seriously, your lowest tiered items should be in the few thousand isk range. Undoubtedly you'll sell a few PLEX priced items. You should consider selling BPC's of some of your items. Those would probably bring in some money and start a whole new profession in EvE. |
Joao Duarte
Selflessness
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:49:00 -
[10]
Will we ever be able to manufacture store items in game or will they always be the product of "spontaneous generation" in New Eden? |
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Water MEI
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:50:00 -
[11]
can we please have more style? maybe a frilly loose skirt or cute high heels (hopefully in the lower - med tier) :) maybe a suit/tux for guys and some sweater n stuffs. (unless they don't really fit into the whole eve atmosphere... )
keep up the good work! |
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CCP Zinfandel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:51:00 -
[12]
It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players. |
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Kheeria
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:54:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Kheeria on 08/07/2011 10:54:20
Originally by: Atai Pekoe good thing you start to explain this to us. i like the concept and i think this could work. i really like the idea of having design studios in new eden and you can choose to wear a really expencive jacket from "Bugo Hoss Jita" or something. Or you just buy your ten Dollar Jeans from some crappy store and be happy withit cause it fits your style.
keep telling us more. i think we all have to handle this very carefully cause i dont think there is another MMO out there with this kind of item-price-strategy (proof me wrong?!?) ...it COULD become a great concept... like i said!
Did you fall and hurt your head? Paying $40-80 for a virtual item is insane.... What will you do if eve is shut down? Ask CCP to send you a real skirt or monocle? And CCP, pricing strategy is clearly not for you, lets say the monocle was $5 or $3, how many more would've bought it? I know I even might, but with prices like these I won't even enter the NeX again to even check your new items. Stupidity in 0's and 1's IMHO. |
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CCP Zinfandel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:54:00 -
[14]
I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."
I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days. |
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:55:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 08/07/2011 10:56:00
Quote: Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX, depending on individual elements.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Marsaac
Minmatar Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:55:00 -
[16]
I have to say that I think that 1 PLEX for the cheapest outfit is quite an overprice, everything in the Eve universe has always been priced realisticly in comparison to other items up until now, I understand that charging the equivalent of 50000 ISK for a fashionable Armani tuxedo wouldn't bring much revenue but charing 300 mil for an outfit that needs patches to hold together just feels like ruining the RP feel of this game and that's coming from a non RP:er. |
Imigo Montoya
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:56:00 -
[17]
When the low end virtual outfit costs as much as a high end faction cruiser (such as a faction fit Cynabal), there's no contest for which purchase gets my money, whether it's ISK or Dollars.
In fact, I think I'm going to buy another couple more and name them "Pants" and "Shirt". |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:57:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 10:59:44
So basically we've seen the end of free character creator updates, minus the new tattoos when they get them working.
No more new clothes, no more near hairstyles, no more jewelry... unless you pay through the butt for them.
Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?
Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion. |
Dsnakes
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:57:00 -
[19]
So if I understood well the ½ cheap + outfit equal one PLEX, so a single item is around 4-5$.
Not that I care that much, but itÆs a little far from microtransaction, you should really think about single items for 1/10 of a PLEX or something. The games that make money with this kind of economy do it by selling thousands of items under a $ not a few at 10$. |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:57:00 -
[20]
How is the Amarr empire not bankrupt for clothing their slaves at this price?
Just a thought.... |
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Joao Duarte
Selflessness
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:58:00 -
[21]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
That's good to hear. CCP has been going towards ending npc-made products in New Eden and that's the way to go and in that regard the store seems to be a backwards step. But then again if players can make the items you would probably have a hard time selling them... unless you would sell the BPOs for the items in the store? |
Atai Pekoe
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:58:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Reachok Seriously, your lowest tiered items should be in the few thousand isk range. Undoubtedly you'll sell a few PLEX priced items. You should consider selling BPC's of some of your items. Those would probably bring in some money and start a whole new profession in EvE.
i dont know, i like the idea to have to save some money for thing you "like" to have but you dont really "need". that is more like in real life. i can buy me a 3 dollar t-shirt or i really want this absolutely awesome 60 dollar t-shirt made by BLA with this freaking grafic printed on it.
i think this really could work. and this makes me happy cause i finally see some strategy... or at least SOMETHING behind this NexStore Thing ^^ |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:59:00 -
[23]
Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Where is the logic in this? |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente Malevolence. Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2011.07.08 10:59:00 -
[24]
I wish CCP good luck and hope they make lots of RL money to pay for FIS improvements.
I think your pricing strategy is nuts, but my degree is in CS, not marketing, so what do I know |
Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Black Dranzer on 08/07/2011 11:05:45
Originally by: AnzacPaul Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Where is the logic in this?
5 billion dollar pants, apparently.
Edit:
But seriously, there's no way to justify it from a fictional standpoint. It's purely for the purpose of making money. The analogy for 1000 dollar jeans is broken. These are spaceships. It assumes my character is either a schizophrenic hipster who won't buy anything unless it's the real world equivalent of several billion dollars in price, or else there's a law preventing New Eden fashion designers from selling pants for a markup of less than a 5 million percent. |
Hydraka
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Black Dranzer
Originally by: AnzacPaul Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Where is the logic in this?
5 billion dollar pants, apparently.
Can I fit laz0rs onto my pants now? Pew pew. |
Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Where is the logic in this?
With any luck NEX crashes and burns after the initial interest subsides and a couple people are looking for new jobs. Just cross your fingers. |
Atai Pekoe
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:03:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Atai Pekoe on 08/07/2011 11:03:48
Originally by: Kheeria Edited by: Kheeria on 08/07/2011 10:54:20
Originally by: Atai Pekoe good thing you start to explain this to us. i like the concept and i think this could work. i really like the idea of having design studios in new eden and you can choose to wear a really expencive jacket from "Bugo Hoss Jita" or something. Or you just buy your ten Dollar Jeans from some crappy store and be happy withit cause it fits your style.
keep telling us more. i think we all have to handle this very carefully cause i dont think there is another MMO out there with this kind of item-price-strategy (proof me wrong?!?) ...it COULD become a great concept... like i said!
Did you fall and hurt your head? Paying $40-80 for a virtual item is insane.... What will you do if eve is shut down? Ask CCP to send you a real skirt or monocle? And CCP, pricing strategy is clearly not for you, lets say the monocle was $5 or $3, how many more would've bought it? I know I even might, but with prices like these I won't even enter the NeX again to even check your new items. Stupidity in 0's and 1's IMHO.
remember that you DONT NEED anything of it... its a way players "CAN" express themselves. You wont have any penaltys if you dont wear this stuff. personally i wont buy stuff from the mid or even higher segment... i cant cause im poor ^^ but i love the idea of the fashion aspect ^^
ps: sorry for my english, hope you can follow me nevertheless |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:03:00 -
[29]
Oh so here it is then. I didnt want to listen to the moaning and predictions on the forum but it is now obvious. Within weeks of your NEX store opening and your allready happy to spend time and resources on making new items, balancing stuff etc. Yet in the whole 2 and a half years I have been playing this game you have rarely EVER looked at ship balancing. Dont even get me started on everything else that needs attention with this game.
Other games I play look at balancing on a timely basis. Small but incremental patches comming out every month or two.
You really are not catering at all to your original base of customers. |
Dsnakes
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:04:00 -
[30]
Originally by: AnzacPaul Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Where is the logic in this?
Just wait for them to think about make you pay for breast implants and enjoy a single boob for the price of a MS :P |
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Khaine Beralt
Wolves Of Legend
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:06:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Khaine Beralt on 08/07/2011 11:20:56 Edited by: Khaine Beralt on 08/07/2011 11:20:31
fake edit: didn't notice the "entire outfit" thing my bad |
Atai Pekoe
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:07:00 -
[32]
Originally by: cBOLTSON You know what guys... I QUIT!
fixed for you. |
Poetic Stanziel
Gallente EVE University Ivy League
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: ChromeStriker Edited by: ChromeStriker on 08/07/2011 10:53:43
First
Edit: ok.... ok kinda makes sense.... pricing still seems a bit high (lowest price items = 1plex)
He said 1 Plex for an entire outfit at the lowest tier ... if that holds, then that is completely in line with vanity items from other games.
As long as they have a pricing tier where individual items are on the order of $2-$5 per item, then that is acceptable to me.
I don't care about the higher tiers ... if people want to pay those prices, then more power to them and CCP. |
Marsaac
Minmatar Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:08:00 -
[34]
Maybe sheep are almost extinct so there is barely any wool, hence the price. |
Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:09:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Mitchello on 08/07/2011 11:20:46
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Don't get me wrong, but I am really curious as to the reasoning of experimenting with the golden goose. I can understand change, and commercial necessities (which flat out don't exist, according to CCP's own finances). It just strikes me as an unwarranted risk to extend this strange doctrine of "X cannot be compelling unless enforced" to commercial model additions while in the mean time there is a truly frightening amount of work to be done in order to get even on the road towards making EVE a premium experience.
If you want to take this as a learning experience, do it for EVE, and not for other products. That EVE shares its resources, you know fine, there is sense in that. But to use it as a learning experiment ... I hope you understand how all too easily that can be seen (and felt) as taking it too far - regardless of factuality. It is after all the emotion that fuels the engine, and any application of consumerism to a service model is a mere demonstration of flawed definitions as buzzwords.
So, is experimenting really a priority over making money as you suggest? If so, that only has any merit whatsoever if you want to expand the road of microtransactions. In which case, I strongly suggest that CCP does not seek out the road of convenience items to extend definitions across desires.
On a second thought, in light of any company having limited resources (no matter how you grow, your market grows with you so growth of available resources is always relative and at best neutral) is it so hard to see that by pursuing this road in the current manner you are locking yourself down along that road in order to make the investment worthwhile. Regardless of it as an experience base for other products, regardless of EVE sharing its resources, you are creating internal debt. And just like other forms of debt, for example technical debt, the bill always has to be paid. And this kind of bill, you always have to pay more for than what you put in, that is the nature of a commercial experiment on a service model. But you know this, otherwise you would not have engaged in this. But is it so hard to see that at the end of the day (proverbially speaking) you will have to commit more resources in order to make the initial investment worth it - resources which will have to be allocated to this, and not other parts of EVE or even EVE as a whole.
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Kheeria
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:13:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Atai Pekoe Edited by: Atai Pekoe on 08/07/2011 11:03:48
Originally by: Kheeria Edited by: Kheeria on 08/07/2011 10:54:20
Originally by: Atai Pekoe good thing you start to explain this to us. i like the concept and i think this could work. i really like the idea of having design studios in new eden and you can choose to wear a really expencive jacket from "Bugo Hoss Jita" or something. Or you just buy your ten Dollar Jeans from some crappy store and be happy withit cause it fits your style.
keep telling us more. i think we all have to handle this very carefully cause i dont think there is another MMO out there with this kind of item-price-strategy (proof me wrong?!?) ...it COULD become a great concept... like i said!
Did you fall and hurt your head? Paying $40-80 for a virtual item is insane.... What will you do if eve is shut down? Ask CCP to send you a real skirt or monocle? And CCP, pricing strategy is clearly not for you, lets say the monocle was $5 or $3, how many more would've bought it? I know I even might, but with prices like these I won't even enter the NeX again to even check your new items. Stupidity in 0's and 1's IMHO.
remember that you DONT NEED anything of it... its a way players "CAN" express themselves. You wont have any penaltys if you dont wear this stuff. personally i wont buy stuff from the mid or even higher segment... i cant cause im poor ^^ but i love the idea of the fashion aspect ^^
ps: sorry for my english, hope you can follow me nevertheless
You english ain't a problem, my reply would've been something of the lines of "Please speak english" if it was. I don't mind the NeX, let the gurls have something to play with, and as we been told the P2Win aspect won't happen I'm quite calm about it, but the prices are worse than here in Norway, and we're the most expensive country in the world. Sorry 2nd most expensive, Iceland just took over about 2 weeks ago. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:13:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Hilmar Veigar PTtursson It's a complicated matter to define what is vanity and what is not vanity.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
I guess my ship with full health does make me look better. |
Morgan Polaris
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:13:00 -
[38]
As long as you keep gameplay tightly under the subscription fee we agreed upon.
Still, this doesn't explain why you choose to call it microtransactions. Even a full PLEX is very much borderline, since a PLEX is not that cheap to bring into EVE (compared to even a monthly subscription fee). |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:14:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 08/07/2011 11:14:21 When CCP announced that this dev blog would come with information on pricing tiers I expected that CCP would use it to backpedal at olympic speeds and claim that all along the current stuff in the store was supposed to be the extremely high end stuff (which would be obvious BS, but we are talking about CCP). However kudos to CCP for not backpedaling and just sticking with your original idea.
Obviously those kudos are immediatly removed again, are you ****ing insane? So the current stuff is the mid range clothes? If the really special stuff was this price range I could possibly understand it, like the look-through top for female chars, or the pants that are on fire for male chars. But serious cloths that are as expensive as IRL are the mid-range stuff? You guys have any link left to reality?
And considering there apparently will also be an exceptional tier for the flaming pants, and the high tier is already 100 euro + for a shirt, you are deluded. It is called MICRO transactions. |
Oblado
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:14:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Hilmar Veigar PTtursson It's a complicated matter to define what is vanity and what is not vanity.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
I guess my ship with full health does make me look better.
Haha, sad but funny |
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Mdih Lihu
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:14:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Mdih Lihu on 08/07/2011 11:15:38
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
If the point wasn't to make money you'd just be selling these things for ISK.
I don't really mind there being micro (I use that word loosely) transactions in the game for vanity items, I can choose to just not buy them if I don't see the value for money/isk/time.
I just hope it doesn't end up that there is some tiny selection of 'free' items and anything beyond that costs money. Also the whole, one pair of pants thing costing the equivalent or more than SPACESHIPS is extremely immersion breaking. |
Shova Kais
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:18:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."
I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days.
Will there be faction specific military outfits for us FW types? Please say yes, please! |
Morgan Polaris
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Mdih Lihu Edited by: Mdih Lihu on 08/07/2011 11:15:38
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
If the point wasn't to make money you'd just be selling these things for ISK.
I don't really mind there being micro (I use that word loosely) transactions in the game for vanity items, I can choose to just not buy them if I don't see the value for money/isk/time.
I just hope it doesn't end up that there is some tiny selection of 'free' items and anything beyond that costs money. Also the whole, one pair of pants thing costing the equivalent or more than SPACESHIPS is extremely immersion breaking.
Try clone jumping while standing in your CQ. Immersion is not a priority here ;-) |
Rawr Cristina
Caldari Naqam
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:19:00 -
[44]
A step forward, but I would still like to see some more reasonable price ranges. 300mil is by no means 'affordable' for bottom tier vanity items. |
Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:19:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Mdih Lihu Edited by: Mdih Lihu on 08/07/2011 11:15:38
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
If the point wasn't to make money you'd just be selling these things for ISK.
|
Vitticeps
Gallente The Royal Guard
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:21:00 -
[46]
I would have to agree with most posts.
CCP have outpriced themselves concerning the market. Imagine... All those noobs who join on a daily basis, those who really wish to customise their character to it's fullest. They go through the whole character creation, get fitted out etc and finally when in game they find that to get some decent looking clothing, they'd have to pay in excess of 300 million.
If the prices were dropped, especially for the lower tiered items, to say maybe a few thousand then you would have a massive influx of people willing to pay that isk just to fiddle and change their toon. If they didn't like it, they would probably go buy another item. Constant revenue there.
I was extrememly excited by the news of Incarna. Alot of people have moaned and complained that it is taking away from the game. Now i feel quite disappointed that i'd have to spend ú15 just so i could make my toon wear a skirt. I'm all for supporting CCP in their endeavours, i wouldn't have such a time-consuming game or the friends i now have without them. But really, think about the customers, and what they are saying.
It'd be a benefit to yourselves with a drop in price to NeX store items.
Vitti. x |
Atai Pekoe
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:22:00 -
[47]
Question:
Is a pyramid based fashion structure planned?
Like a lot of items (lets say 50) in the low price segment, a little less (lets say 25) in the mid segment and a little less more (lets say... 5-10) in the high segment? |
Bodrul
Caldari Paragon. Nulli Tertius
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:23:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
this is a Joke right? the prices are still Jokes (wasn't it bad enough being ridiculed by almost all the eve players and Gaming websites)
didn't CCP learn from the Monocle? protect the economy as you want to say it but CCPs image not doing so well
not that i care about doing dress up space barbie and Ken lol
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Mr Trit
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:24:00 -
[49]
Low range suit of clothes = 1 plex-2 plex ok (this is a complete suit, not just 1-2 pieces)
midrange suit = 2-3 plex
high end = make it worth the plex and it will be bought.
but DO NOT wait for me to buy it. |
Katana Seiko
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:24:00 -
[50]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy.
We have an important notice too. Why the heck did you put in a second currency? This is absolute boll****, and you know it. I bet that CCP Dr.EyjoG has told you about it, and he probably advised you not to do that.
Let me make it clear for you in terms that you understand: For example people don't like to buy a Freighter and a Janitor in a package if the Janitor costs them an additional 200 millions. It's the same with our ISK and AUR. If we transfer some ISK into AUR, we have 15%, maybe 20% overhead. Meaning a good portion that you just can't use. What good is a left over of 800 AUR if you can not use it for anything? It is worth about 100 million ISK, but you can not do sh*t with it because it's AUR and everything else in EVE just takes ISK.
So please. We had the same thing with blueprints before. They were brought from a far away place and resold for 10% to 100% profit. So if you want to **** off some players, keep AUR. If you want to make all players terribly happy and stop monitoring something you don't f**ing have to, remove the AUR from the system. And give back the ISK to those who made the mistake to enter into AUR.
Thank you. |
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CCP Zinfandel
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:26:00 -
[51]
We don't yet have targets for how many pieces are designed for which tier. Some of that is purely artistic freedom for the artists who design the pieces. Also, this is because we can't currently create new items as quickly as we'd like.
We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces. And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.
But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more. |
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Arklan1
Dunedain Rangers
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:27:00 -
[52]
lowest teir outfit for the price of ...three or four t1 battleships. i'm sorry, but that's just plain stupid. just because bill gates HAS billions of dollars doesn't mean he spends millions on shirts and pants.
now, the optional nature of this whole NeX thing obviously makes it a bit less of a concern, but the prices are still stupid high. i happen to like some of the clothing i've seen in there, but i won't be buying it if the LOW END is the price of a plex. not ever. i balk at the prices of +5 implants, and your talking about that much ...for pants. |
M Blanc
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:27:00 -
[53]
Well, I guess we now have a new unit for quantifying collective insanity: the CCP.
Gratz! |
Lina Miaoke
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:27:00 -
[54]
I assume the basic free clothing line will see more addition eventurally? The selection is pretty damn limited as is right now.
I'm 100% positive I'll bump into many characters thats wearing exactly same clothing I am... Gonna feel awkward for those who doesn't want to spend their hard earned ISK/Cash on virtual clothing. |
AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We don't yet have targets for how many pieces are designed for which tier. Some of that is purely artistic freedom for the artists who design the pieces. Also, this is because we can't currently create new items as quickly as we'd like.
We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces. And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.
But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more.
its funny how sometimes you can say so much, and yet really say nothing at all....... |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Aliastra
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:29:00 -
[56]
I would like to run a tailor shop. It has been my dream that once Incarna launched, I could have people stop by my shop and I would be able to sell them fine outfits and threads. However, those prices are exquisitely painful. Even I don't know if I can swallow a few billion ISK for an outfit or two. |
Ctair
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:31:00 -
[57]
I've never once felt the need to got on the forums in the time I have played but this time I will. We pay to play pewpew in spaceships not barbie. This six months of waiting for an update and its to line your pockets with money. Greed is goning to be your downfall. |
Gallion
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:33:00 -
[58]
Ive got no complaints about the Pricing of things, and I think Strongly on the Whiners of the Currant Price. I think 3,500 aurum for 1 plex is reasonably good. but I would like to ask if their is gonna be any Very Unique Outfits like the kind that makes your character a Playboy bunny (Quafe Bunny?) or perhaps some robotic Ligaments(I'm assuming it be with the cloths and not on a Individual Slot)? I'd Really like to see some Militaristic Outfits, Career Specialized outfits(Overalls), Jumpjet booties!, Space-like combative Armor, I wanna see some CCP Signature Eve-Santa Suits(or hats), incase ur wondering im making a To-do list for your NoXe store . I'm probably as poor as the majority of players in this game and from my view things are Just great. CCP(& Fallout) Kudos on the great work. (p.s. the recent melodramas is just silly) |
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:33:00 -
[59]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Yes.
A while back, a company called Apple discovered that if you sell songs for 99 cents people will buy them. Using this information, and combining it with an intuitive interface, the company became wildly successful and fabulously wealthy.
You, on the other hand, have decided to market $60 sets of virtual clothes hardcore geeks who are here to blow up spaceships and to casual newcomers with no real ties to the game. In fact the only group you've had any success with are forum trolls who use monocles as tear dispensors and even those are one-time purchases.
So my question is: When is the last time you updated your resume? |
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:33:00 -
[60]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more.
I understand you ignored my previous question, so let's try a more safe one this time.
Was this devblog ran by the CSM?
|
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Vitticeps
Gallente The Royal Guard
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:33:00 -
[61]
I noticed that CCP Zinfandel has a NeX Monacle, Did you pay the 3-4 PLEX's for that item? Or was it an optional extra for staff?
Vitti. x |
Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:33:00 -
[62]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Thanx for coming out to the players, but I am positive that we are all sharing the same concern the clothes are overpriced. I mean paying 45-60$ for piece of midtier virtual cloth is kinda...insulting. I could ALMOST swallow that price for some VIP ultra exclusive piece of thongs made of titanium, but not for midtier Tshirt. Please reconsider your price politics or we will stay naked (or maybe thats the REAL intention of CCP marketing dept - naked pilots everywhere) |
wiLik
Zor Industries
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:34:00 -
[63]
CCP, your pricing strategy for entry level items still seems a little on the outrageous side.
Surely having much lower entry level prices would attract more poeple and therefore would be a much higher uptake which in turn would make you more $. |
Aineko Macx
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:34:00 -
[64]
Your pricing is still off by two orders of magnitude.
Lower the prices substantially, and make the vanity items dropable & destroyable AND show on the kill mails. That would be 100% more eve-like. |
Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:35:00 -
[65]
I like these dev blogs - I really enjoy reading about progress in Eve!
I would like to hear more about content in future rooms that players will meet up in - mini games, such as Slay (and maybe Chess?) for example.
Personally, I would look forward to PvPing in mini games. My aspiration is to be like the character in the book Player of Games!
|
William Brooklyn
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:35:00 -
[66]
Am i the first one to say fix the bloody game first before you start working on useless stuff? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:35:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Thanx for coming out to the players, but I am positive that we are all sharing the same concern the clothes are overpriced. I mean paying 45-60$ for piece of midtier virtual cloth is kinda...insulting. I could ALMOST swallow that price for some VIP ultra exclusive piece of thongs made of titanium, but not for midtier Tshirt. Please reconsider your price politics or we will stay naked (or maybe thats the REAL intention of CCP marketing dept - naked pilots everywhere)
Being naked IS the VIP ultra exclusive outfit they are talking about. I'll get one if you do. |
Niraia
Zaratha Zarati Aggravated Assault..
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:36:00 -
[68]
This breaks immersion. Why can't I buy a few girls, some materials, and a few sewing machines for like 100k ISK or less?
Also, the skirts are too short. If nobody can see my underwear, this is pointless. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:36:00 -
[69]
Personally I dont care that much about the prices, I wont buy it anyway.
However CCP said they wanted to attract new people with the playing barbie concept (well they probably put it nicer).
Now imagine a new player, the new player is not interested in this, but he reads it anyway, and walks away laughing for a week straight with these insane prices. Now we also have a new player who is intrested in playing barbie. She (hey lets hope it result in more females) is looking forward to putting her avatar in good looking clothes and is willing to spend a bit on that. But the idea behind MT is that she spends a bit on that. Here the mid-range cloths are as expensive as IRL. Now I wont claim to be an expert on females, but I am pretty sure most of them rather go shopping IRL than in a spaceship game if it costs just as much.
And that is just the mid tier. Someone like this wants to look good, better than the average spaceship geek, so she wants the high tier stuff. For a single outfit she could have bought a new mid-end gaming computer, and that is even ignoring the extreme-tier stuff. That is simply ridiculous.
Yes we will have eve players that will buy such stuff since they simply buy PLEX because they got way too much ingame ISK. While it is nice you can buy it like that, it doesnt really help attracting new players. A high end outfit will be in the order of a supercarrier, that doesnt really attract new players either. |
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:37:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Morgan Polaris on 08/07/2011 11:39:07
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel nonsense
Here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0131856774
Look for: Reference Price Effect, buyerÆs price sensitivity for a given product increases the higher the productÆs price relative to perceived alternatives (e.g. real clothes).
Really brosefs, the learning has been done for you. Like forever ago.
|
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Mitchello
B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.08 11:39:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Morgan Polaris
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel nonsense
Here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0131856774
Look for: Reference Price Effect, buyerÆs price sensitivity for a given product increases the higher the productÆs price relative to perceived alternatives (e.g. real clothes).
You may want to start at the basis, and teach them the differences between retail concepts and service model operations before even exploring the limitations of consumerism in these matters as a concept to experiment with.
|
Shasz
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:40:00 -
[72]
The whole MT thing is fine - there are definitely people out there with more money than brains. Witness all the monocles already sold.
But if you want the expensive clothing to even remotely seem exclusive, you've got to have common items too. Otherwise the owners of the exclusive and "unique" high priced items will all just look alike. I know you're experimenting, but put a little thought into it first maybe?
Regardless, you've reduced your revenue stream from me and my wife until you start working on addressing issues with the game itself. Dress up dolls is frivolous and pointless until you can actually see other people in stations, and you've introduced several flaws in the UI with the last several patches that you've not fixed - so I'm not spending any extra on a broken game I have no desire to play right now, or maintaining any extra accounts.
Fix it please. |
Bethor Invictus
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:40:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Bethor Invictus on 08/07/2011 11:40:24 Really cool i can now buy a top tier pair of pants for the price of a RL pair of pants. guess who will be playing eve naked..
..not me at least |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:40:00 -
[74]
Hello CCP Zinfandel,
Has the potential for a 3rd party or standalone development tool been discussed to possibly allow for players to design their own clothes?
My thought process behind this if you'll hear me out for a moment.
CCP is trying to allow for 3rd party devs to make money, real money. If those developers were able to create clothing and put it into an EVE store where they received a royalty from CCP themselves for the development of something, I think it would kill a lot of birds with a single stone and provide for a way that everyone can contribute to EVE.
This later can be further developed into "addons" that people can create if you were to develop a framework that is releasable to the public to do things like, create restaurants/homes/hotels/toy stores/body augmentation/barber shops/hat shops...
The possibilities are endless for everything to furniture manufacturers all the way through commercial design for store fronts and display cases.
This is a HUGE project for CCP to undertake and quite possibly if the framework for something that the community can develop, you'd allow for more player generated content, a way for CCP and the players to make some money and an entire mini-game within the EVE universe to allow for complete immersion.
Thank you for taking the time to read my long winded idea. |
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CCP Zinfandel
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:41:00 -
[75]
We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?
Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them. |
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QwaarJet
Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:42:00 -
[76]
I still don't agree with these vanity items at all. Feels like EVE is being changed into something unpleasant. |
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:43:00 -
[77]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?
Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.
I hate to say this, but this feedback thread is not an advertising channel =P
Meanwhile, in the aftermath of recent events of which the most important lesson of all was the gap in communications, would you agree that it is perhaps an idea to go into questions and feedback?
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Bethor Invictus Edited by: Bethor Invictus on 08/07/2011 11:40:24 Really cool i can now buy a top tier pair of pants for the price of a RL pair of pants. guess who will be playing eve naked..
..not me at least
A top tier of pants are arround 10 plex according to this blog, so you can buy more than one normal pair of pants. It is roughly same price as you would pay for top tier RL pants. |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:43:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Zagdul on 08/07/2011 11:45:54
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Yes.
A while back, a company called Apple discovered that if you sell songs for 99 cents people will buy them. Using this information, and combining it with an intuitive interface, the company became wildly successful and fabulously wealthy.
You, on the other hand, have decided to market $60 sets of virtual clothes hardcore geeks who are here to blow up spaceships and to casual newcomers with no real ties to the game. In fact the only group you've had any success with are forum trolls who use monocles as tear dispensors and even those are one-time purchases.
So my question is: When is the last time you updated your resume?
Hi.
I think the point you and a LOT of people have missed is that if they had released the lower tier first on the Incarna release, a metric fu%Kton of PLEX's would have been cashed in for AUR and the market would have literally crashed.
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Bolded and underlined the important part you may have read over.
|
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:44:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Downtime starts in 15 minutes and will make some small tweaks to the store goods at that time (and add a few new items.)
Nice going, suckers. |
|
Hosiden
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:45:00 -
[81]
Quote: An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.
Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing? |
Reilly Duvolle
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:46:00 -
[82]
ROFL @ "Exceptional tier". I actually laughed tears in my eyes at that one. Good one CCP. This seems to be one giant experiment for you to determine just how much real money you can suck out of the players. I am gonna go out on the limb here and estimate that griefbuys aside (monocles), you are not gonna see much sales at the upper 3 tiers, and little more at the bottom tier. If the numbers from EA are correct, only 2-3% of the pouplation can be considered peacocks anyway.
What really bugs me however, is just how much of your dev resorces you are pouring into this bull****. |
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:46:00 -
[83]
Originally by: QwaarJet I still don't agree with these vanity items at all. Feels like EVE is being changed into something unpleasant.
Welcome to yesterday.
@Zinnfandel: How does this all fit in from a roleplaying perspective? I could buy 2 carriers for the price of one (1) monocle? This may seem not important to you, but I really breaks immersion... |
Trinneth
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:46:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Yes.
Firstly, is it fair to say there's been no rethink on price in response to both the player and media reaction over the last few weeks?
Secondly, if it's not making you much money, and it is eating up developer time, then aren't microtransactions doing exactly what many players feared - diverting precious development resources away from core gameplay and into content most players won't have access to? |
Ydnari
Gallente Estrale Frontiers
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:47:00 -
[85]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?
Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.
$8.50 for what looks like some badly rendered welding goggles?
And again, more expensive than the real life version.
|
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:47:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Hosiden
Quote: An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.
Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing?
I don't.
They're vanity items.
Stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.
|
Htrag
The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:49:00 -
[87]
What the F has my Eve become? |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:49:00 -
[88]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
àand tbh, I think that's one of the main problems here. If you had gone after it as a money-making enterprise, you would probably have chosen prices that are more in line with what people have come to expect from, say, the ST:O C-store (~$3 for an outfit, ~$10 for a whole bundle) or Aion ($10 for a skin change), or any of the FPS customization stores ($0.5û$6).
Instead, you've gone for an puny-income strategy that rather seems to be dictated by the in-game value of your IG-to-OOG value transfer veichle (PLEX). You seemingly want to make stuff insanely priced in-game (a billion ISK for a full outfit), which isn't all that unreasonable, but you're constrained by this transfer vehicle that immediately sets an out-of-game cost that is beyond ridiculous when compared to what customization options costs in other games, and which at at the same time has an important role to play as a subscription mechanism. Double-loading it with two completely different functions this way has created an impasse for what you can and cannot do with the prices and with the goods that are generated.
Had the NeX been fully functioning at release, and capable of accepting other forms of payment than just AUR, you could have worked around this to some extent ù make it cost $2.50 for a shirt (500 AUR), but also make it require the sacrifice of pure ISK, to the tune of, say, 300M ISK. In terms of pure $$ price, it would have been much more in line with what people expect, but it would still have set you back ~1 PLEX (350M ISK, of which 50M comes from the AUR price and 300M from the ISK price). |
Boma Airaken
Seekers of a Silent Paradise
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:50:00 -
[89]
Love how much info we are getting, love the fact that new stuff is inbound, love my free clothing.
There is seriously nothing here worth complaining about. Starter outfits will be the new "elite" in two more years.
Great job Zinfandel, don't let the naysayers get you down. |
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:50:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 11:55:26
Originally by: Zagdul
Hi.
I think the point you missed and a LOT of people have missed is that if they had released the lower tier first on the Incarna release, a metric fu%Kton of PLEX's would have been cashed in for AUR and the market would have literally crashed.
Oh no, I've thought about that and I agree with you. But that's not an excuse to make the items $50-60.
That just proves AUR shouldn't come from breaking up PLEX. AUR should just be purchased with money, pure and simple. Or even take out the AUR entirely and just give me a price list. Then make everything 99 cents to a maximum of 4.99.
They would have had me there, and I would have bought stuff from the NEX store. Lord knows I buy cheap **** on impulse all the time in the Apple store. Maybe I should thank CCP for preventing me from doing that in Eve. |
|
De'Vadder
Minmatar Dissonance Corp BLACK-MARK
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:51:00 -
[91]
I am quite surprised how openly you admit, that this is just a test for your other games. Not only may we pay for two games we do not want to play, we also may be their alpha testers. I feel so involved \o/ |
Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:52:00 -
[92]
I might look biased with my sig and all but I was quite underwhelmed by the devblog concerning the pricing tiers. Now don't get me wrong I have nothing against 1000Ç pants if you choose to sell them and I allready understand how you came to the conclusion that stupid people will pay stupid amounts of money for "fancy" items.
I also understand that from the "Lore" standpoint, pod pilots would buy costumes that have the same cost as a planets GDP because they can. We are eternally living beings that hold no meaning to anything except their own wealth and now that we can soon walk next to other pilots, the image we choose to create to others. The sheer wealth some persons have (although I'd buy a titan).
However I would have liked to see more examples (like the nightstalker goggles) a bit more info on what is considered "lower tier" is it colours, fancyness, exclusivity? How the choices are made on a down to earth pure economical model that sort of stuff. Because in the blog you didn't say anything that was not allready said.
I would also in what way you might cater to the Roleplaying people by creating items to wear that have impact on their gameplay. Kumak's, ceremonial swords, fedo's, medals!!.
It also good to read that you really would like us to create stuff like that when it is possible, but it would be good to see al that extra info that has been given on the comments, in the DevBlog.
As a last comment, please, please please, make items destroyable in combat. If you are wearing your fancy clothes to a fight you should lose em. If +5 slaves implants get blown up, your pants are gone to!
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Kossaw
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:52:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Kossaw on 08/07/2011 11:52:57 3 to 4 PLEX for a "medium" outfit of clothing ?!?!?!?!
Are you guys completely f*****g insane? Have you lost complete touch with reality? Have martians stolen CCP devs and replaced them with Sony executives? Do you seriously expect us to pay that kind of real cash for a different coloured pixel on our internet avatars?
OK, its kinda fun trolling General Windypops about his $80 monocle but really its wearing a bit thin guys - The novelty has already worn off.
MICRO = SMALL. If a monocle cost $2 you'd have sold thousands by now. If boots and a shirt were 50c everyone and their dog would have bought them by now. If "premium" items were $10 then you might sell a few hundred and yes they'd be "exclusive" and "fun" for us.
I love this game and I appreciate the great stuff that CCP does. But tbh, $80 is beyond insulting. Its completely, utterly and totally offensive. Tell your marketing wonks to take your NEX and shove it.
|
Leiture
Amarr Liliis tenaci vimine jungor
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:53:00 -
[94]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.
We need free items not more "affordable" items. |
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:53:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Mitchello on 08/07/2011 11:56:18
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Hosiden
Quote: An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.
Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing?
I don't.
They're vanity items.
Stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.
Right now yes. But taking the experiment as indicated to grow an experience base as indicated, that's pretty simple affirmation of progressive path pursuits. In simple terms, the investment made and resources allocated will have to pay for themselves either within EVE or within an exchange between EVE and other projects of CCP. Since any company has limited resources, allocating those is a generally tricky thing to handle with care. Prioritising as such is key. When you experiment, you have to recoup the allocation of resources at some point in time. This is called creating an internal debt, much like for example the technical debt type they incurred with Apocrypha (which haunted them for a year or so). But debt has to be paid, and thus resources will by default be allocated to do exactly that. Progressive path affirmed. And for that to be solely vanity items, no. CCP have been abundantly clear in their statements that the benchmark is game breaking items, without any definition attached. Which for starters validates convenience items. Once again, progressive path.
I don't worry about the microtransactions tbh. What I do worry about is that there are limited resources available for them to work with. What goes in one thing, comes out of another things. I sincerely hope they can maintain balance there. Which would be a first, as the historic precedent is very simple and clear.
I should add though, that there is a second angle which they appear to be consciously ignored. When you engage in a service model, and add aspects of retail on top (even in a virtual setting), you take a risk because you are adding user and user group types to your existing "collection" of those. Here too you have to be careful with how far you take it, because it is very easy to create a niche strong enough to by default either warrant allocating resources to in a higher ratio than to other environments, and because there is another risk of the niche becoming strong enough so that changing (experimenting, altering, correcting any mistakes) becomes too costly. Maybe some people can - for example - remember the old drama about level 4 missions, where some ccpians wanted those in lowsec, others didn't, stuff happened and now it's case which cannot be changed without facing structural costs.
|
Jens Beckstrom
Inertia Fatalis
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Jens Beckstrom on 08/07/2011 11:55:31 It should be free of charge, period! We pay a mothly fee, if you cant make it for that, then dont.
And incarna is possebly the worst expansion ever, it ads verry little new, its partialy broken, and you make realy ugly monocles (and then you manage to be proud of it). Remove it and work some more, and then ship it out again for christmas. It's bugged, ugly, and if you cant even deliver all the races its not even worth to release.
Good work on the Maller though, its become awsome!
|
Zaiboz
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Zaiboz on 08/07/2011 11:55:41 Guys,
Step away from the keyboards and breath for a second ok, is it expensive? Hmmm, yeah id say so
Am i being forced to buy it? No
Therefore should i care about the price? No.
Neither should you if you have no intentions of buying anything |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:55:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul
Hi.
I think the point you missed and a LOT of people have missed is that if they had released the lower tier first on the Incarna release, a metric fu%Kton of PLEX's would have been cashed in for AUR and the market would have literally crashed.
Oh no, I've thought about that and I agree with you. But that's not an excuse to make the items $50-60.
That just proves AUR shouldn't come from breaking up PLEX. AUR should just be purchased with money, pure and simple. Or even take out the AUR entirely and just give me a price list. Then make everything 99 cents to a maximum of 4.99.
They would have had me there, and I would have bought stuff from the NEX store.
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
If CCP released a ton of items on launch people could get for... I don't know, lets say $3-5.
PLEX's would have been bought up by EVERYONE in eve, all at once.
This would RUIN the eve economy and the complaints would be FAR worse.
In other words, allow CCP to slowly introduce items. Allow for people to get a little AUR in their wallets over time. When more people have the new currency and it's more wide spread, then it won't have an effect on PLEX prices which just happen to be one of the main controlling factors to how EVERYTHING in eve is priced.
If PLEX prices go up, so does the cost of battleships/modules... everything produced by players.
|
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:56:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jada Maroo That just proves AUR shouldn't come from breaking up PLEX. AUR should just be purchased with money, pure and simple. Or even take out the AUR entirely and just give me a price list. Then make everything 99 cents to a maximum of 4.99.
This. The fact that they're over-loading the functionality of PLEX is one of, if not the greatest problem with the whole NeX store. Had it (and AUR) been decoupled from PLEX, it would have opened up for a far more reasonable and more nimble and adaptable mechanic for price-setting and cost balancing. |
Hosiden
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:56:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Zagdul
Originally by: Hosiden
Quote: An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.
Am i the only one that find this abit disturbing?
I don't.
They're vanity items.
Stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.
"ok"
|
|
zcar300
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:57:00 -
[101]
So the most affordable outfit will cost around 250,000,000isk or $34 USD. That's ridiculous. |
Darian Nystrom
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:57:00 -
[102]
I dont think 35 dollars for an outfit is remotely reasonable. As much as this is going to pain me to say this... I think you guys need to look at STO and their store for ideas on what reasonable prices for virtual clothes are. I think its Ironic Im now telling you to take ideas from STO (Star Trek Online) when I hate that game but you can buy iconic federation uniforms for around 3 dollars in STO. Thats about the right price for useless vanity items. |
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:58:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Zagdul
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself. |
4RR0W
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 11:59:00 -
[104]
Outfits on that picture look ugly :( Some of them already on duality, dont even want to buy one. |
Dogo Duma
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.
It's Zagdul, go over post history (well, once Chribba gets eve-search back online, he's been moving everything in a truck today according to twitter). Classic case, never changes, only pops up in certain situations
|
Punx Evangeline
Heretic Army B A N E
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 -
[106]
So when is the good looking stuff coming out? Something that isn't all drab, frumpy and brown/grey/black?
-Punx |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer Raiden.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:00:00 -
[107]
Do a few days of PvP ... or buy a new dress!
Seriously you make me lol. Micropayment XXL. If only you would hire professional designers and make some good looking stuff instead of this crap. |
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:01:00 -
[108]
Aaaaaaand, this is just another reason why you don't ask for more than real clothes:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
http://i.imgur.com/76dY5.jpg |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:01:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Jens Beckstrom Edited by: Jens Beckstrom on 08/07/2011 11:55:31 It should be free of charge, period! We pay a mothly fee, if you cant make it for that, then dont.
And incarna is possebly the worst expansion ever, it ads verry little new, its partialy broken, and you make realy ugly monocles (and then you manage to be proud of it). Remove it and work some more, and then ship it out again for christmas. It's bugged, ugly, and if you cant even deliver all the races its not even worth to release.
Good work on the Maller though, its become awsome!
It is.
If you would like, you can go out and run missions to get some isk then buy a PLEX on the market.
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.
Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start. |
|
PMolkenthin
Dark Chapter
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 -
[111]
|
McPod
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:02:00 -
[112]
"Deluxe tier outfits are aimed at flamboyantly rich capsuleers regardless of whether they measure their wealth in ISK, Aurum, PLEX, or currencies from Earth. While price is of little concern for these players, they could find themselves spending two or three times the price of an affordable outfit on a single piece for their ensemble. An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community"
meh. count me out. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 -
[113]
Great to read about this topic, finally! Now there are some couple of questions :-)
1) Why didn't you write such a blog BEFORE you opened the NeX?
2) Are the prices for the different tiers set in stone? Or are you open to suggestions from the community? I think especially the "affordable" tier is still too expensive. 1 PLEX for an outfit, that is in average $3 for an item. Why not adding items for 0.99c and below?
3) Have you considered installing AUR as a real currency in EVE?
3 a) For example players could sell things for AUR in the market or they could set payment in contracts to AUR (and ISK).
3 b) Purely NPC sold items and services could be paid in AUR (additonal to ISK maybe), for example station office rent.
4) Are there plans to improve the interface to the store? Right now it is sort of okay, but if we (hopefully at some point) have tons of stuff in there, browsing through the items and finding the right one might be pretty difficult.
5) Are the technical limitations of the store and are you working on removing the limitations? For example, is it possible that some items in the store cost Aur AND Isk at the same time?
Props for blog and all the answers so far.
Oh, and of course it might be also interesting to read (in a future blog) about all the steps necessary from the first design studies of your clothing designers to the final product in the NeX store |
SwissChris1
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 -
[114]
In my opinion stop making bull**** clothes and finish re-designing our ships! You gave us the beautiful Scorpion model in February of 2010 (http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=732)....and now the Maller. At this pace it will take you 20+ years to get the job done. |
Reilly Duvolle
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:03:00 -
[115]
The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":
"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."
LMAO |
Svalinn
SOMER Blink Cognitive Development
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:04:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Svalinn on 08/07/2011 12:05:51 I can't help but feel this blog has explained the pricing structure rather well, but entirely failed to explain the reasoning behind the structure.
The player base wanted, from CCP, why they chose to price them at the levels they are and what were the reasons behind? Even if the answer is a straight up and honest "We have to fund Dust 514/WoD" or "We don't want market saturation too soon.", we would at least have an answer to that question, from you, to us. Then there is no more mistaking the issue.
Please stop posting blogs that dance around an issue without addressing the key questions that the CSM and players wanted answering. I don't have a problem with people spending money on cosmetic items, I'd just like CCP to actually talk to the player base rather than talk over them.
|
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:04:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:04:07
Originally by: DeBingJos
Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.
CCP doesn't need a PLEX sink if they create a real money sink. |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:07:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.
OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.
There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.
There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.
I can't quite remember the exact quote, but it was right about when PLEX's were made able to undock with and the forums went insane when 72 of them were destroyed on the Jita undock in a Kestral. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:08:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Jada Maroo CCP doesn't need a PLEX sink if they create a real money sink.
Weeeellà they'd still have to get rid of all those PLEXes somehow. Of course, if they had introduced the NeX in such a way that it offered a better bang for your buck (or ISK for your $$$) by buying stuff from the store and selling them on the secondary market, people would probably have scaled back on the PLEX purchases and the liability would have gone down over time that wayà |
Miss FYVM
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:08:00 -
[120]
You can't half tell that dev blog was really written by someone from marketing. It explains very little about the pricing structure. It explains what the tiers are, but doesn't say a word about what everyone wants to know - WHY it's priced that way.
"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.
You know in all honesty, all of this **** is starting to make me wonder whether or not I want to continue playing the game.
Just the fact that I'm considering this, shocks me, and shows me just how far this crap is going. No wonder people are still leaving, and those who have left, feel justified in doing so. |
|
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:09:00 -
[121]
I still wonder if this devblog was ran by the CSM.
|
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:11:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Miss FYVM In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount.
Just like ship spinning, right? It all makes sense now.
No it doesn't. |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:12:00 -
[123]
Originally by: DeBingJos
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Originally by: Zagdul
Excuse?
lol, you're not getting it.
Drr, apparently you missed the part about how AUR shouldn't be tied with PLEX at all. For someone who complains about people not reading whole messages, you sure seem to suffer from that problem yourself.
Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.
This. |
Atai Pekoe
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:15:00 -
[124]
Question: Are there more "free" items planned? I guess a lot of players would like to have more possebilitys to customize their characters. And like it have been said before... a bigger Character Creator would be great for new players! :-) |
Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:15:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:15:45
Originally by: Zagdul
OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.
There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.
There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.
Fair enough, but you don't tie that into a transaction store like NEX which ought to be a mass market money maker for CCP. It doesn't sound like they're accomplishing their goal, and they're ruining a potential new source of revenue in the process.
If the problem is the super wealthy hoarding PLEXes, then target the aspects of Eve that require that amount of wealth. Require sov bills be paid in PLEX (maybe rename PLEX in the process), or something along those lines.
But skirts for PLEX? That just won't even solve the problem. |
Darth Vapour
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:17:00 -
[126]
This explains why the new character editor makes such bland, nondescript characters compared to the old one. To be different visually you will now have to pay. A lot.
Looking forward to seeing standard pre-Incarna character items like the Gallente being sold for several plexes. |
Intermittent Fault
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:17:00 -
[127]
I'm reminded of a story - Man to Woman: Would you sleep with a man for a million pounds? Woman: It depends on the man. Man: Would you sleep with me for 10 pounds? Woman: What do you take me for? Man: We've already established that, we're just fixing the price.
If the only thing that bothers you about the Noble Exchange is the pricing, you've already lost the moral argument, so stop pretending you're something you're not. |
Trinity Killys
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:20:00 -
[128]
Dear CCP. Everyone is telling you that what you're doing is wrong. This isn't a case where there is a vocal minority of nay-sayers but the majority is supporting you. This is the whole player base calling you on your ****.
Set this mess straight. You're loosing the respect of your players.
|
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:21:00 -
[129]
Originally by: DeBingJos Wasn't the whole idea behind AUR to create a PLEX-sink? The more PLEX get converted to AUR the better as this was the purpose of AUR from the start.
Yes, but that's also the problem: they can't create an effective PLEX sink because that would screw up a market that they need to protect. They need a PLEX bleed more than a PLEX sink.
àand yes, the NeX serves that purpose: by making the prices this high, the speed of the transactions will be low and the market won't go nuts. But on the other hand, this kind of pricing will make the real-life prices seem utterly bonkers.
So we have a huge expectations gap: players were expecting a customization store, at normal customization prices; CCP wanted a PLEX sink that didn't sink too many PLEXes at once. These two purposes are inherently incompatible. |
Shova Kais
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:22:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Shova Kais on 08/07/2011 12:22:17
Originally by: Trinity Killys Dear CCP. Everyone is telling you that what you're doing is wrong. This isn't a case where there is a vocal minority of nay-sayers but the majority is supporting you. This is the whole player base calling you on your ****.
Set this mess straight. You're loosing the respect of your players.
Speak for yourself. *Lose btw. |
|
Kern Hotha
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:23:00 -
[131]
All this time, effort, and money spent on avatars and clothing is depressing. Please focus on spaceships. |
Murashu
Liberal Frontier Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:24:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Miss FYVM
"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.
Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal? |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:25:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 12:26:59
Originally by: Murashu Is $20-30 now a great deal of money?
It is compared to the cost of similar items in games where walking around and showing off your clothes is actually a large part of the gameà
It also goes completely against the basic psychology of microtransactions: people who are willing ù indeed, eager ù to buy 20 different $1 items would never in a million years spend money on a $15 item. |
Miss FYVM
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:26:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM
"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.
Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?
When you only pay $15 for the game? Come on. I want what you're smoking. |
Iam Widdershins
Project Nemesis Moar Tears
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:26:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Kern Hotha All this time, effort, and money spent on avatars and clothing is depressing. Please focus on spaceships.
It's called labor specialization. Fashion designers are pretty lousy at fixing memory leaks and UI issues. Stop your whining.
I am curious about Zinfandel's comment about indestructible goods. Are these goods indeed indestructible, or are all Noble items you are wearing when you are podded destroyed? I am hearing conflicting reports. What is CCP's intention for this mechanic? |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:27:00 -
[136]
The basic idea you have is good, but your low tier pricing is just stupid. It's the low end, think 99 cents/item, tier where the bulk of the money in MT is. That would also cater better to the all important new player demographic who you've now effectively priced out and you have ensured that the feature won't give much enjoyment for the playerbase in general. The current pricing will just force most people to ignore the system, it will generate less income for you than it could, it will provide very little enjoyment for the players and generate needless hate and dissatisfaction towards your entire MT plan. It is bad for you, the game and the players when compared to a system that has that low pricing tier with a good selection of items.
|
Bethor Invictus
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:27:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM
"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.
If you compare it to the competition (other MMO's doing micro transactions NEXT TO already payed subscription, or even next to a F2P game) yes it is a huge amount. Also there is nothing micro about 50 euros. Unless they plan on sending me the RL version of those same pants that is.
Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?
|
Dan Brimstone
Order of Dendera Shadow of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:29:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Iam Widdershins
I am curious about Zinfandel's comment about indestructible goods. Are these goods indeed indestructible, or are all Noble items you are wearing when you are podded destroyed? I am hearing conflicting reports. What is CCP's intention for this mechanic?
I think he said they where only indestructible if you where wearing them. Obviously if they are in your cargo and you get blown up, chances are they will too, or drop for the guy who blew you up.
On a different note, all this complaining about the pricing of vanity items...... really? If you don't like the price just don't buy the stuff. I know I don't plan on wasting my money. |
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:30:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Murashu
Originally by: Miss FYVM
"Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX" Wow. Really? That's ******* ridiculous.
In my view, this shows me that when CCP looked at the idea of micro-transactions, they saw the term as meaning a small number of transactions, rather than a transaction costing a small amount. Well done CCP.
Is $20-30 now a great deal of money? Millions of people have no issue spending $5 or more for a pack of cigarettes everyday or thousands of dollars for a computer system just to run EVE at max settings, but $20 for an optional vanity item is suddenly a huge deal?
Depends on how you look at it really. If it is on top of a subscription where a sizeable part of the populace pays multiple accounts every month, then slamming 20 to 80 bucks on to that can easily be "too much". Obviously nobody can ever look or speak for anyone else's wallet, but the sentiment is not hard to understand - especially since EVE as a game is far from the premium experience that it is presented to be, in quite a few sizeable niches of the game. That contrast between perspectives, is also a factor.
I'm not concerned with the prices tbh. For me it's just a repeat of past events, where CCP locked itself in a position where eventually they had to focus a lot more on allocating resources to something, which did cost gameplay and quality of gameplay in many other aspects. Prioritisation of resource allocation, pretty much.
Aside of that, the philosophy of experimentation, to learn as they go, with an initial opening of virtual clothes ... it unsettles me a bit that when you look up research done in this field that is the default step preceding microtransactions for convenience items. And there, I just hope we don't get another conflict like the previous one (considering statements like buying faction standings and such for AUR).
Progressive path. Can be a good thing, but with clearly defined limits and boundaries. Without those, it's just a self fulfilling prophecy in this industry (and tbh, in most others as well).
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:32:00 -
[140]
These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?
People that do not want them anymore will sell them. They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling
First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.
Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future. |
|
Jonathan Malcom
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:34:00 -
[141]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
This makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole ordeal. That was always my biggest issue with the NeX store. +1 for right-thinking. Now make it so. |
Mitchello
B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
This makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole ordeal. That was always my biggest issue with the NeX store. +1 for right-thinking. Now make it so.
Considering limited resources, drastic change of course in that regard (but one I too agree with, but I still remember the vicious statements at GDC on how that approach was evil) and two upcoming products as well as drastic handling of EVE itself required plus having to complete the Incarna path .... I have little hope for that anywhere near in the next 18 months (no pun intended).
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K'iran
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 -
[143]
You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?
Are you ******ed? |
Shadowsword
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 -
[144]
As long as at least 40-50% of the items are in the lower tier, I don't really care about the prices.
In other games or forums where free donations are encouraged, those who give money often receive some honor mark, in one form or another. It can be a different color for the name, a title, whatever. And I never saw anyone going up in flames over it. I consider the NeX as something very similar. And if there's an item that cost, say, 150 USD, then it's like a different title to mark someone who made a big donation over someone else who made a smaller one.
Tought I suggest that Chribba, for his numerous (and often costing him money) services for the comunity over the years, should be given a gazillion Aurums. |
John Turbefield
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:39:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
This makes me feel a whole lot better about the whole ordeal. That was always my biggest issue with the NeX store. +1 for right-thinking. Now make it so.
I love your sig <3 |
Zagdul
Gallente Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:42:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Zagdul on 08/07/2011 12:43:53
Originally by: Jada Maroo Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 12:15:45
Originally by: Zagdul
OK, there's a second issue with PLEX.
There's a LOT out there and the super (ISK Rich) in EVE are hording them and playing market games.
There also needs to be a PLEX sink outside of cashing them in for game time and was something that was brought up a while back in one of the reports.
Fair enough, but you don't tie that into a transaction store like NEX which ought to be a mass market money maker for CCP. It doesn't sound like they're accomplishing their goal, and they're ruining a potential new source of revenue in the process.
If the problem is the super wealthy hoarding PLEXes, then target the aspects of Eve that require that amount of wealth. Require sov bills be paid in PLEX (maybe rename PLEX in the process), or something along those lines.
But skirts for PLEX? That just won't even solve the problem.
The problem is, people are toeing in this NeX store as a way for CCP to make a ton of $$$$.
While I'm sure their finance department would love this and the tinfoil hat wearers of EVE online would like to believe this is the sole purpose of the NeX store... it might very well be possible that CCP saw a potential problem with PLEX and is trying to correct a problem before the players destroy it.
This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?
Originally by: K'iran You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?
Are you ******ed?
No, they don't expect sh!t out of you.
You can chose to buy them or not.
They don't force you to, nor expect you to.
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Komen
Gallente The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:46:00 -
[147]
The pricing is insane. Pricing virtual goods for real world prices is the very height of (fill in your choice of arrogance, insanity, ignorance, or glassy-eyed head in the clouds dreaming). Virtual goods ought, at the high end, perhaps be a PLEX for a fashionable outfit, or maaaaybe two plex for a one-off unique item made just for the player by a fashion designer/clothes modeler team. Instead you've priced these things at a level that makes them either a joke, an insult (durrr I am rich and stupid also bling), or a testament to your need for psychiatric help. Get some, please. If needed, I'll buy a ****ing monocle to help you with the bill, that you might return to spazships splodin'.
Account still not set to renew, until I see something about spaceships. I'll give you a hint why I play this game: I saw this back in '02 and my jaw hit the floor. I turned to a friend in the room and said, 'In expectation of this going live, goodbye, been nice knowing ya'. I knew from the moment I saw that trailer that I would be a part of something...grand.
It's been a great ride, and dammit, I do not want it to end, but I cannot justify my subscription when I see a developer act so foolishly, ignoring core gameplay. And then to set prices so high that they are not making money on a feature whose sole purpose is to create extra income and drain excess plex from the market. My brain just exploded. Grats. Herp, ****ing, derp. |
dgastuffz
Caldari Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:46:00 -
[148]
What a waste of dev time i call it fail |
Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:47:00 -
[149]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We added some new items to the store just now during downtime. May I draw your attention to the "Nightstalker" goggles for 1500 Aurum?
Obvious part: we need a lot more affordable items in the store. As soon as I can, I will get them and stock them.
Thanks, been looking forward to those!
I appreciate that clothes whilst worn are effectively indestructible but I seriously think you should consider an even lower tier of clothes (maybe a mix and match bunch) around 40 million ISK per outfit or 1/8 of a PLEX. Either that or provide more free cloth in the character creator.
At the moment you've set the bar quite high for any new player just starting their subscription to affording even a cheap set of clothes, which won't aid participation and may make them feel excluded from content with out being double billed or waiting for some time whilst their in game ISK can match their ambitions.
Quote: The items in the Noble Exchange come in several price ranges. Normally, an outfit will all come from one pricing tier. An affordable tier outfit can be purchased and assembled for roughly the value of one PLEX in total - slightly cheaper if you are fortunate enough to time your purchase well.
Two points on the above, firstly it would also be nice to have items that can be matched across tiers well so I can maybe get a choice few luxury items for my character while going cheaper for the rest.
Second point was regarding what you meant by timing your purchase well? Does the AURUM cost fluctuate to PLEX or are you planning on holding sales? Seems to me at the moment the the AURUM to PLEX exchange rate is pretty fixed. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:48:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Zagdul While I'm sure their finance department would love this and the tinfoil hat wearers of EVE online would like to believe this is the sole purpose of the NeX store... it might very well be possible that CCP saw a potential problem with PLEX and is trying to correct a problem before the players destroy it.
This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?
That's entirely possible, but that only means that they've completely failed ù even after this dev blog ù to communicate what the NeX is for and why they've chosen this particular pricing structure.
If they simply stated "hey, the PLEX liabilities on our books are causing problems and we need to start bleeding PLEX from the economy", they would have been in a far better position to explain and respond to the criticism that the NeX has raised. |
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:51:00 -
[151]
Originally by: DeBingJos These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?
People that do not want them anymore will sell them. They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling
First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.
Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future.
Well, that means that their price in ISK will become more affordable! I hardly see that as a bad thing! Also there will be exclusive and limited edition stuff as written in the blog, these items will always be rare, therefore will rise in price significantly!
Also, the low-tier items will cost about a Plex or less PER OUTFIT! That means everything! Pants,Shirt,Shoes, that's 100Mil per item or 7.5$, that's actually not bad at all! WoW sells vanity pets and mounts for 20$ each, if I can get a full outfit for 20$ then I think it's fair.
Mid-tier and Ridiculous-tier are mostly aimed for ISK rich people, you don't have to pay with PLEX if you don't want to! That makes its price MEANINGLESS.
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Nye Jaran
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:51:00 -
[152]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Seriously, you're introducing ****ing tailoring to eve? What is this, WoW? |
I Love Boobies
Amarr All Hail Boobies
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:53:00 -
[153]
Can you people who are pushing forward with these prices actually look in a mirror and keep a straight face? Seriously though, can you? I don't really how the CSM were understanding of this. How many monocles did you pay them? I hate to see the prices on the "deluxe" items. |
mvrck22
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Zagdul
This may be a stretch and I'm gonna get called every fanboy name in the book for this... but maybe CCP was looking out for the player's best interest all along?
Originally by: K'iran You expect us to pay 60 euro for some pixels, that don't do anything and will mostly look like CRAP in the current iteration of Incarna?
Are you ******ed?
No, they don't expect sh!t out of you.
You can chose to buy them or not.
They don't force you to, nor expect you to.
Honestly, it would be a good idea to not simply advocate, but to first research and then analyse before engaging in a discussion. I'm not calling you a fanboy, truth be told all of us who subscribe and continue to subscribe are fanboys. Because we love it, simple as that. Sure once upon a time long ago a lot of us were evangelists, which is something else, and which is something direly missing.
But that is a different debate really.
The simple thing is that this is not about money for EVE. It is by admission a learning curve, an experimental approach for future targets and objectives for EVE, and for other products. In part because one of those products is tied with EVE, in part because - as Hilmar indicated - CCP does not want to be left behind, so rather than innovate they replicate industry trends. That is understandable, but in the absence of clear definitions and in the presence of clear statements on continuity of these paths you should be able to understand that it can and does upset people.
It's the difference between the presentation, and the actual delivery. Piled up over time. Offset by statements from CCP such as "premium experience" which simply does not match the realities of many people's experiences. Does that mean they will quit, no, because there is no substitute and they love the dream of EVE because that is what they bought and share.
CCP is a business. Their interest is themselves. Nothing else. CCP employees, is a different thing than that. That has become clear very much so. And that is a good thing, both parts of it.
PLEX and AURUM are instruments of business intelligence for CCP for the product of EVE. That is nice, and good, as long as the foundations for approach and execution are validated not from a just statistical perspective, but more importantly from a behavioral perspective. And that is where a lot of people place questionmarks, in light of public statements and QEN's which neither take into account the behavioral perspective nor otherwise correct for it.
It's basically come to a point - something which I find incredibly unfortunate - that there is an incredibly strong trend among communities to simply not take CCP's word anymore, in any way or form. In immersive products you've got a few basic currencies as a business, two of which are belief and trust. That those have been compromised, I can understand, but I also find it sad.
CCP has engaged on a path of creating trends, rather than that historic and well rewarding path of enabling trends. The difference may seem subtle at first glance, but is quite significant in terms of internal debt risks, glitches in expectation management, segregation between user vs user group types, and so forth. More importantly, it locks CCP into a course which requires further and more resources. Progressive path.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Nerodon
Originally by: DeBingJos These vanity items are indestructible. Doesn't this mean that their price in isk will fall in the future?
People that do not want them anymore will sell them. They are indestructible, this means supply will keep rising thus prices will start falling
First very slowly, but faster and faster the more items hit the isk-market.
Conclusion: It's a bad investment because the prices can only go down in the future.
Well, that means that their price in ISK will become more affordable! I hardly see that as a bad thing! Also there will be exclusive and limited edition stuff as written in the blog, these items will always be rare, therefore will rise in price significantly!
Also, the low-tier items will cost about a Plex or less PER OUTFIT! That means everything! Pants,Shirt,Shoes, that's 100Mil per item or 7.5$, that's actually not bad at all! WoW sells vanity pets and mounts for 20$ each, if I can get a full outfit for 20$ then I think it's fair.
Mid-tier and Ridiculous-tier are mostly aimed for ISK rich people, you don't have to pay with PLEX if you don't want to! That makes its price MEANINGLESS.
That is exactly what I'm saying. It also means that if you are smart you don't buy that stuff now, you buy it when the prices are dropping (In a few months).
Let's be honest, the incarna part of EVE is single-player at least untill december. The only thing you can do with the clothes is admire them yourself or show them in the tiny portrait in the ingame chatwindows.
Be smart, wait. |
VARANUS65
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:55:00 -
[156]
this is a Complete rip off of eve member's and. the difference is in second life i can make mt informs and decide what i want it to look like ,not have to buy a off the shelf product that 20,000 other people will have so in no way is this unique and 3 plex-S for A OUT FIT I DONT THINK SO THAT MEAN I AM BUYING AN OUT FIT THE 20,000 OTHER PEOPLE HAVE SO IT WOULD BE LIKE GOING TO A WALMART AND BUYING THE SAME BLUE SHIRT THAT EVERYONE ALSE HAS FOR 60 DOLLERS YOUR JOKING
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:58:00 -
[157]
Gotta say, I'm really liking the new goggles (not a bad price either) and I love the new male commando pants (though I think they're a bit too "skinny jeans" for my characters fit). But the pricing on the pants is still a bit premium...but I do have 3,500 AUR burning a hole in my wallet... |
Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:58:00 -
[158]
I think your price per item is too high, but I assume your new found advisers think player will pay so there it little point in arguing with CCP otherwise.
No doubt you are already planning on creating 'fear of loss' sales (available for a limited time only! Once they're gone they're gone!) and so on and so forth.
What, however, I think you will learn are the wrong metrics from EVE that wont translate to your other titles. Players who want to play with "Blood Dolls" will love this sh*t. Your EVE base, er...not so much.
C. |
Resivan
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Posted - 2011.07.08 12:59:00 -
[159]
No matter how many times you trot out the "you can buy them for isk" line, it doesn't change the fact that a PLEX has a par value of $15. I'm not willing to spend more than a couple of bucks an item, especially as long as the items are this ugly. Show me prices in the AUR 250-500 range and I'll think about it. |
Madner Kami
Gallente Durendal Ascending Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:01:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Madner Kami on 08/07/2011 13:06:31
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
I've said it last year already, I said it a few days ago and I'll say it now again: Bull****. You can not allow players to create their own stuffs, which could end up looking exactly like what you want to sell in your NeX-Lalaland, because you need a monopoly, so that people actually buy your stuff for real $ instead of 100% similar player-made stuff for fantasy ISK-only. This is also, why you're having such a hard time about finding a solution on how to implement player-made stuff, because you desperatly need to incorporate static Aurum-costs into the player-made stuff, to make sure they can not capitalize in ISK-only, what you want in your wallet in RL-$. And don't even think for one split second, that I believe you, if you take a step forth and try to tell me, that you do not care about that. You invested manhours into the creation of those fashion-mumbo-jumbos and want your investments back, ideally plus interest fee. That's the whole point of micro-/macrotransactions! But go ahead, belie yourself or belie your customers. I don't know which of the two cases is the truth or even both, but either variant is equally bad and I really suggest you all go back to the drawing board and think about what you actually want! |
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Shadowsword
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:02:00 -
[161]
Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/07/2011 13:06:47 Edited by: Shadowsword on 08/07/2011 13:06:30 Player-made outfits Soon(tm)?
Given a few reccurent themes/memes of some 0.0 entities, past and present, I can see a wave of leather and latex stuff coming. Lots of T-shirts with funny messages, too.
If it's not already the case, you might want to think about where to put the line exactly where censure is concerned. |
Dogo Duma
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:03:00 -
[162]
Quote: Glitch is a new farmville esque mmo by one of the founders of flickr. It has ACTUAL micro transactions and several tiers of opt-in subscriptions that provide access to exclusive design elements (clothes as well as facial features) and escalating monthly bonuses.
Dress-up items start at 25 credits up to 80 so far. You can wear up to 6 items at a time. Credits are 40 for $3 to 500 for $25. The highest tier subscription is $89 a year and provides 400 credits a month and 50 teleportation tokens (it's still beta so the exact utility of these tokens is unclear as the balance is ****ed up). All of the alpha testers got 400 credits free.
Glitch has executed microtransactions perfectly. They get people addicted to a variety of clothes, each item is pretty cheap, they are constantly releasing new items, and total outfits can be kind of expensive ($24 for a full set of the most expensive items). Plus subscribers get substantial benefits but are still pulled into paying more through MT.
But Stuart Butterfield is the idiot and CCP are fearless innovators
Quote: I just don't understand them.
Players are telling CCP the exact best way to manipulate us into paying them more money. Instead of taking our advice, CCP Super Genius Vikings are going in a completely Fearless direction that we are all telling them is going to fail horribly. Because they saw a presentation on MT claiming that the key thing is to ignore your players.
From another forum. Bit harsh, in some ways, but it doesn't take a genius to see why there are serious questions on the table.
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:03:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Nerodon on 08/07/2011 13:05:54 If you consider 3 Plex expensive, to a vet in ISK, it's nothing! Nothing at ALL! That's why with 1 PLEX you can get a full low-end outfit (About 7.5$ per item) If you don't want to pay, get a full outfit for 350Mil, that's also pretty cheap, even for starters at the game.
View the deluxe-tiers as some sort of endgame objective to justify your quest to be rich in Eve... If you're like me and don't give a flying F about flying a titan, getting a full outfit of deluxe bling is a far cheaper alternative!
Keep in mind that you're not buying any of these items directly for real money. You buy them with PLEX, and you can get PLEX in more than one way.
Oh and, it's optional and vanity only! So stop your complaining!
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Chu Pamela
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:04:00 -
[164]
cloches are not the way how make us buy more plexes... think again what are you doing ccp. i will not expend 1 euro for to play barbies here. |
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:06:00 -
[165]
And this is what CSM saw and liked!? Okay, I am not much for Incarna or vanity stuff. My plan was to ignore it until there was something I liked, perhaps poker, but I truly don't understand your plan, CCP.
Immersion
That is what you at CCP preach about. How Incarna will help with immersion. This is not it. First of all, to force capsuleers to unpod each time they dock to drop off loot or get ammo - that is not immersion. That is stupid. Secondly, one cheap set of clothes will Cost 1 PLEX (350-400 mil ISK). Seriously? That is not immersion, that is stupid. You are so blinded by what you want (money) that you can't see the obvious.
WiS used to be this great vision. A new Eve-environment with new professions. The potential was staggering. Now look at what it became. No new professions, no new market, cheap pants that could feed a family in the Eve universe for a lifetime. No matter how much you want to seamless-us-into-Incarna, it will make Incarna Eve-Online. Sure, it is the same game-world but it is not Eve-Online. Eve-Online is a sandbox with an economy driven and controlled by players.
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Remember, these items can and will be available for ISK as long as someone puts them up for sale there. As with the rest of EVE the market is based on supply and demand and selling clothes may become a lucrative way of making some additional ISK.
Translation: Supply is endless because items are created from thin air. We hope we get more newbs with Incarna since they can identify with a character. They do not need to feel left out just because they don't have 400 mil ISK to buy a PLEX, the pants they want might be on the market for 150 mil ISK, just a 50% increase in price. If that doesn't work then they just can whip out that credit card and buy some PLEX.
Just imagine how much better Incarna would be if the NEX sold blueprints instead of indestructible items. We would get supply and demand as well as a cut throat market. The future promises of Incarna would be fantastic. Instead we got a new Incarna with unpodding and the NEX that kills immersion, we get a NPC market that will dominate WiS (I doubt players will be able to sell anything that wasn't bought with AUR).
CCP, was this the vision you had when you started this so many years ago? |
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Chu Pamela I will not expend 1 euro for to play barbies here.
Yet your toon uses a lot of makeup |
mkint
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:07:00 -
[167]
So... when are the art guys going to start working on something that actually matters? iirc, there are a couple hundred ships that need to be redesigned in order to actually move the game forward. Thanks, we've had the dev blog that people asked for. Now can this "feature" be abandoned please? Drop it like it's FW! |
kyrieee
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:08:00 -
[168]
Dear CCP Zinfandel, I think that monocle you wear is obscuring your view of reality. |
Lotus Starshine
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:09:00 -
[169]
Thank God I fly naked.
Seriously, I'm gay and won't even pay these prices. Hell, I've gotten clothes at Barney's for cheaper than this. |
Crusandra G'Had
World Eaters Excavation
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:10:00 -
[170]
Ever think about coloring/tinting the default items and selling them really cheap (i.e. 200-300 Aurum)?
I remember that manpower was cited as the reason for high prices in the initial monocle blog. How much work would tinting require? |
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:13:00 -
[171]
Talk about real unapologetic bs's sheesh...
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:14:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Ra Vhim Translation: Supply is endless because items are created from thin air.
Supply is as endless as there are people willing to pay for them. That doesn't make it infinite.
If 500 items are in the game, then its rarity (In the ISK market) is that of 500 available items. Yes it's unlimited in the Nex store, but those can't be acquired without AUR. So that means they are in fact shielded somewhat from the ISK market. If the market item pool moves to 1000 items, then yes, the price is potentially going down as it gets more common. That item will lose its value, and be MUCH more affordable in ISK rather than AUR so people will stop generating them. So they will reach a cap where their number will stop increasing, as people buy them off market, the pool may decrease and demand might increase, it's price goes up and then people tend to buy more from NeX, it's a good cycle actually, and it's not as broken as people may think. |
Boonaki
Caldari Focused Annihilation Detrimental Imperative
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:15:00 -
[173]
Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game. |
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:17:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Boonaki Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game.
^^ THIS X 1000 |
Cage Shadownsun
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:18:00 -
[175]
Is "Eyewear" really the appropriate term? Isn't it technically eyereplacement? Eye socketry? Eye Dear-god-you-didn't-tell-me-you-were-actually-REMOVING-my-eye-for-this!-ry? |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:19:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Boonaki
Should loose it if you get podded like anything else in game.
Lower the prices, destroy the items when you get podded and you have already a much better business running! |
Morphisat
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Morphisat on 08/07/2011 13:24:34 Shame those resources weren't used for the space game...
BTW at these ridiculous prices you're only gonna sell a few items to a bunch of ******s. Funniest thing is, that only the buyer can see your expensive 4 plex suit, so there is no point at all to buy this crap.
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mkint
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 -
[178]
With all my complaining about CCP these days, the most tasteless part about this in-game is rubbing our faces in it. I DO NOT want to see my eternal lack of space gold on my mouse hover-over on the wallet. I DO NOT want to see my eternal lack of space gold on the main wallet page distracting from what really matters (isk.) I will never ever EVER get space gold, and any freebie space gold is going onto a throwaway alt and biomassed. Tasteless implementation = 100% resistance. |
Deja Thoris
Invicta. Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 -
[179]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."
I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days.
Wow, you really are batshi t insane aren't you?
Barbie in space at the price of only ONE measly plex? Please do the community a favour and resign, and take your crap fashionista ideas with you. If you can't do that then at least spend your time marketing your fixes for all the bugs and features you orphaned.
You know, I read the interview where the senior producer said that community reponse can drag you down and be quite hard. With rubbish like this you deserve every negative vibe you get. You aren't just retar ds, you are stubborn retar ds. |
Check Herar
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:20:00 -
[180]
I want new spaceships...srsly...and dont sth like that noctis stuff i want NEW spaceships...I dont care about that crap outfit stuff i want god damm new spaceships or something at least remotely affiliated with spaceships...like new guns or new weapon systems or whatever...PLEASE.
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Glaso Fruixette
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Posted - 2011.07.08 13:22:00 -
[181]
And there i thought the launch NEX store had all the price tiers, ranging from "What the fcuck" to "Are you fcucking kidding me?" |
Tarinara
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:23:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Resivan No matter how many times you trot out the "you can buy them for isk" line, it doesn't change the fact that a PLEX has a par value of $15. I'm not willing to spend more than a couple of bucks an item, especially as long as the items are this ugly. Show me prices in the AUR 250-500 range and I'll think about it.
I'm with Resivan on this point. Everything in that NeX store gets converted to 'Real Money' in my head. $20 for a PLEX to 3,500 Aurum ( because ultimately that's the path you want us taking to inject money into the game ). Plus considering you have to shell out $20.00 for a PLEX just to get in the door, that puts a damper on impulse buys to begin with.
It also seems y'all have a different definition of the phrase 'Micro Transaction'. I would think CCP would want these to fall under impulse purchases, much like the racks of magazines, candy and other assorted goodies at the check out in grocery stores. A buck or two for an individual item and maybe $5.00 or so for an entire 'outfit'. That puts it into the 'yeah sure, why not' category.
I doubt I'm in the minority when I say: '$20.00 for some digital bits that I can't really touch or take with me - I think not'... |
Ketaros Thunderclap
Warrioth Clan
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:24:00 -
[183]
Well,
I have read amazing replies, and very good analyses, Jada Maroo and few others resumed perfecly, 5 other pages here are just being cycles of whine about price and game strategy that I dont see nothing special...
The whole point is simple, and resumes to a marvelous simple move: - Make AUR be only bought with real money, without ANY connection with ISK.
I know PLEX was a big business mistake you guys did, dont try to correct a mistake doing another. CCP, do the math, separate real money from ISK, ASAP. I know MANY will hate me for saying this...
In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.
CCP, do that thing for the huge majority of players you have: - Set this fashion thing only traded by AUR, and make that AUR only tradable by real money and make a item costs around a dollar. You will get WAY more money.
My 2 ISKs, |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:33:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Ketaros Thunderclap The whole point is simple, and resumes to a marvelous simple move: - Make AUR be only bought with real money, without ANY connection with ISK.
Makes little sense. They would need to invent the wheel again, especially the trouble with accounting, billing etc. is way too high. Actually nothing useful can be gained by introducing a second, completely independent currency into EVE. Instead you have only PLEX and fractions of PLEX called Aur. They should have called it Plexicent instead of Aur though. The integration of Aur into EVE (through PLEX) is a great move and a very good thing.
Quote: I know PLEX was a big business mistake you guys did, dont try to correct a mistake doing another. CCP, do the math, separate real money from ISK, ASAP. I know MANY will hate me for saying this...
PLEX was the second best thing CCP ever did, the best one was GTC.
Quote: In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.
They aren't aiming for you. They are trying to attract *shock* new players! A different kind of player, those that like dress up etc. Too difficult to understand that? Looks like. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:34:00 -
[185]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
We found you Zinfandel! Perhaps you should should add helmets and matching drool cups for your toons..... |
Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries Black Thorne Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:35:00 -
[186]
Tbh I feel your still pricing things to high for even the average player, you should be looking at a minimum at least 2 of not 4 outfits per a plex for the affordable tear.
The way you have things set out here really isn't very good, I welcome more items coming, we really really need alot out there, I'd love to see people with hundreds of outfits and capsuleas employing workers to make these. but the main point is price, you've gone to high.
And then theirs the immersion and scale factor. your basically setting it fo a low end outfit will cost nearly the same as a faction bs ISK wise, I can understand there being a discrepancy but but this is just to big.
also while this is hard to put into words really I feel certainly and I think quite alot of others do, that we are worried about such high prices and your seeming of pushing of plex to get these as if you need us to get rid of plex. |
Crasniya
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:38:00 -
[187]
Even the "affordable" tier is way too pricey when you consider the cost of PLEX. A set of clothes at the cheapest being around, possibly a little less, than $20?
For a game like Champions Online, you can pick up a clothing pack, which contains more than one possible suit, for $4. So... even the affordable tier looks to be overpriced by a factor of five.
That being said... vanity items are vanity items, unless I saw one I really wanted, I won't buy in. Show me something I like, at a good price, and yeah, I'll splurge. I've splurged on vanity items for Warcraft and Champions. |
Shonion
FREE GATES HUN Reloaded
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:39:00 -
[188]
Go Go SpaceBarbieeees!... |
Tvaishk Suzuki
Long Night Industries Black Thorne Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:40:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Quote: In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.
They aren't aiming for you. They are trying to attract *shock* new players! A different kind of player, those that like dress up etc. Too difficult to understand that? Looks like.
However the way there doing it here there not going to get many new players, who will have to A) but the game b) pay the sub then c) pay more then the sub again for each new outfit.
this just doesn't seem like a good way to attract new players. |
Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:40:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Vuk Lau
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Thanx for coming out to the players, but I am positive that we are all sharing the same concern the clothes are overpriced. I mean paying 45-60$ for piece of midtier virtual cloth is kinda...insulting. I could ALMOST swallow that price for some VIP ultra exclusive piece of thongs made of titanium, but not for midtier Tshirt. Please reconsider your price politics or we will stay naked (or maybe thats the REAL intention of CCP marketing dept - naked pilots everywhere)
Being naked IS the VIP ultra exclusive outfit they are talking about. I'll get one if you do.
We have a deal. |
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:42:00 -
[191]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Ok. If this is the eventual aim, with a player driven manufacture cycle and market force driven pricing structure, then I'm fine with it. With a small number or uber rare CCP seeded items. As long as it stays vanity. If this had been explained like this earlier before the launch, we wouldn't have had the kicking off that happened. But then it wouldn't be CCP if they didn't screw up the communication to their customers in some way.
I still think your an idiot if you decide to spent the equivalent of ú50+ for a virtual piece of clothing however... |
Lotus Starshine
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:45:00 -
[192]
I can only imagine the experience for new players now.
I liked Eve when I started- a fairly quick tutorial, then out into space to mess around.
I'm on a two year old Mac- but I imagine most people aren't on new machines. If I was new to Eve now. I could imagine spending an hour and a half as my machine tries to get up the juice to use the character creator.
Then another 30 minutes as I load into my first station.
I'm afraid they would have lost me. Which sucks, because when you get into the real part of the game- it can be a lot of fun.
I will be very curious to see their new subscription rates in the next report. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:49:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Dennie Fleetfoot
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Ok. If this is the eventual aim, with a player driven manufacture cycle and market force driven pricing structure, then I'm fine with it. With a small number or uber rare CCP seeded items. As long as it stays vanity. If this had been explained like this earlier before the launch, we wouldn't have had the kicking off that happened. But then it wouldn't be CCP if they didn't screw up the communication to their customers in some way.
I still think your an idiot if you decide to spent the equivalent of ú50+ for a virtual piece of clothing however...
Would you feel the same if the only way to get T2 bpc were from the NeX????? |
HyperZerg
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:51:00 -
[194]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys, We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Your make 10-15Ç for every Plex convertet to Aurum.
Why aren't you making a lot of money ? Too many customers quit because you want them to pay double ?
Also, why this funny prices ? 15Ç is LOW for an item that just enhances your look ? |
Persephone 66
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:52:00 -
[195]
Attn anyone at CCP that actually gives a ****: I didn't come here to play dress up. If I wanted to **** away real money on virtual clothes, I'll get an account on Second Life.
I came for the spaceships. I came for the epic fleet battles. For the combat.
Get your priorities straight and quit breaking my favourite game. |
Tar om
Minmatar Octavian Vanguard
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:53:00 -
[196]
Will CCP be hiring any talented designers to create clothes worth paying for or will they continue to produce the "Clothes designed by game geeks" range? |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 13:59:00 -
[197]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We are just dipping our toes into the water here
àwhat I think I'm saying is this: dipping your toes will only make the whole thing unpleasant and protracted. A good swim begins with a head-long dive and a lot of splashing around. |
Mo'Chuisle
Gallente The Executives Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:02:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Mo''Chuisle on 08/07/2011 14:02:44 I don't know what exactly you guys are all complaining about, IRL I'm just preparing my outfit for going out tonight and it's going to run me about 600 million dollar, which is roughly one F-35. Compare that with being able to afford an entire outfit for the cost of merely 7 dominix class battleships in eve (which are clearly outdated technology compared to a F 35 in the real world) I feel not only are these noble items affordable, they also make good sense from a RP perspective and help my immersion a lot.
I do feel bad for the roughly 35000 crew members (a battleship had about 5000 crew in the eve lore back in the day, right) that will be laid off when I refine a couple of my unused old ship to buy more new outfits for standing in front of the mirror in |
Orpheus Ovid
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:04:00 -
[199]
I like it. I would have liked it better if you would have included the BPOs with the item or at least a BPC.
I believe that CCP seriously needs to look into other career paths that people can take in EVE besides space. For instance, perhaps someone would like to set up and run a bar/restaurant in one of the stations. Eventually, they could franchise. The examples are as endless as there are real careers in the world. Don't let the opportunity of increasing the number of paths we can take pass you by. |
Luke S
Zeta Corp.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:08:00 -
[200]
You still fail to understand the "Micro" in Microtransaction. your reasoning is still not good enough. I can pay for real life close for the costs you have set.
if you said, "we picked theses prices because we need to pay the clothing designers" then I would have accepted it.
whatever you say, your nex market STILL says you want money and only money. I'm sorry, but I'm not coming back. Yes you respect the players and their comments, yet it seems like your are not. |
|
Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:08:00 -
[201]
If that's your military theme, then I'm disappointed.
Where's our Gallente, Caldari, Minmatar and Amarr militia uniforms? |
Persephone 66
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:11:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Tar om Will CCP be hiring any talented designers to create clothes worth paying for or will they continue to produce the "Clothes designed by game geeks" range?
Yeah really. Would it hurt to hire a few queens and *****s to design your clothes?
And before anyone *****es, I am a queen and a *****.
Hey, here's a thought that I'm sure has been said before - give the players a design option! |
Captain Drifter
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:12:00 -
[203]
So... you are telling that those funny prices on my screen when I first launched this NEX-thing weren't a bug at all ?.....
c'mon...
|
Jaggfab
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:14:00 -
[204]
yeah.... and next step is to make our battlecruisers wearable as clothes ?? or what ??
300'000'000 isk for a suit ? .... |
Di Mulle
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:20:00 -
[205]
Not so long ago when Incarna was just a name, I remember lots of fanboys screaming in joy how they will get their corps uniformed...
Can't blame them, If I wasn't a rather cynical spreadsheet user, I probably would find some fun in that too.
Look, the train of joy finally arrived. Or it didn't... ? |
John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:20:00 -
[206]
I still think you're all confused over the issues. Most people in Eve don't give a toss about vanity items. All we ever wanted to know was whether there where plans, as per the leaked document, to introduce items that provided distinct advantages to the purchaser and circumvented the player economy that could be bought with real world currency. It was never about price of monocles.
If you really want to move on from all this debacle, I suggest a blog outlining plans to deal with rampant botting in 0.0 and all the other issues we have regarding internet spaceships as opposed to space barbies. |
Daedalus II
Helios Research
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:20:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Jaggfab
yeah.... and next step is to make our battlecruisers wearable as clothes ?? or what ??
300'000'000 isk for a suit ? ....
Well that's exactly what you would get if you guys got it the way you wanted and have *ALL* CCP employees (including clothes designers) working on the spaceships |
Not-Apsalar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:23:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Not-Apsalar on 08/07/2011 14:23:32
Originally by: Jaggfab
yeah.... and next step is to make our battlecruisers wearable as clothes ?? or what ??
300'000'000 isk for a suit ? ....
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
What a battlecruiser wearable as clothes may look like
/I want hats. Ship shaped hats. |
Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:29:00 -
[209]
I thought this line was particularly amusing;
"We are planning to offer clothing and accessories at an affordable tier, a mid-tier, and a deluxe tier, with occasional exceptional offers of rare goods for a very limited number of customers".
i.e all tiers after the 'affordable' tier are, by default, not affordable.
C.
|
Edgar Loke
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:33:00 -
[210]
Its all still WAY overpriced for what I would pay in microtransactions. Isn't the point of microtransaction based stuff to be lots of super cheap items that are picked up peacemeal by the community, and then the people with WAY too much damn money run off and buy everything?
I can't afford this stuff at these prices. |
|
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:34:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 08/07/2011 14:36:12 How is immersion into the EVE universe supposed to be kept when a single article of (dare I say common) clothing costs, for all intents and purposes, more than a Faction Battleship?
Completely ignoring the RL money issue here, and just focusing on the ISK aspect.
Seems somewhat silly in a virtual universe, to completely break immersion in this way.
Just my thoughts... |
Ketaros Thunderclap
Warrioth Clan
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:39:00 -
[212]
Exacly Carai!
Thats why I said: if CCP wants money, stop RIGHT now with any connection between ISK and Real Money. All other ideas mixing and messing with those two universes, real and Eden, will make things WORST.
|
Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:40:00 -
[213]
Good to see you prioritising assigning resources to the things in eve that really matter! Well done CCP on continuing to ignore the playerbase and waste our subscription revenue! Your lead game designer needs to be sacked. |
Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:41:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 08/07/2011 14:36:12 How is immersion into the EVE universe supposed to be kept when a single article of (dare I say common) clothing costs, for all intents and purposes, more than a Faction Battleship?
Completely ignoring the RL money issue here, and just focusing on the ISK aspect.
Seems somewhat silly in a virtual universe, to completely break immersion in this way.
Just my thoughts...
You're quite right there Carai, it will break immersion but you're perhaps missing a fundamental point in this exercise from CCP in that its sole intention is to...
MAKE LOADSA MONEY!!!!!!
C. |
Auric Aurumfinger
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:44:00 -
[215]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Indeed. Instead of selling the clothes coming from CCP NPCs, would be awesome to buy "Designs" the clothing blueprints.
Players would then have to procure the materials to manufacture them with a supply chain that involves both space and planetary interaction.
This could evolve into integrating the Dust 514 economy with EVE's.
That would be the EVE way to do it. The whole gold store seems silly, like Maple Story. |
Auric Aurumfinger
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:46:00 -
[216]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 08/07/2011 14:36:12 How is immersion into the EVE universe supposed to be kept when a single article of (dare I say common) clothing costs, for all intents and purposes, more than a Faction Battleship?
Completely ignoring the RL money issue here, and just focusing on the ISK aspect.
Seems somewhat silly in a virtual universe, to completely break immersion in this way.
Just my thoughts...
Agree. Clothing will cost more than fully fitted faction BS with faction everything. |
Auric Aurumfinger
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:49:00 -
[217]
How about new ship designs? Don't you dare sell a Stabber in full golden glory. It will look like a flying dildo.
How about more spaceship science fiction and less space dolls? |
Jag'Deo
Gallente Funky Chill Collective
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:53:00 -
[218]
LOL CCP you are dumb |
Dierdra Vaal
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:55:00 -
[219]
Quote: If you are currently wearing an outfit, it is effectively indestructible so put it on before you leave if you're making your purchase at a well-traveled market hub like Jita.
How does this work? EVE canon tells us we're naked in our pod. This is told in chronicles, eve novels and the trailer where a capsuleer leaves his pod.
So how do you justify/explain my clothes magically traveling with me - even after being podded (and losing normal implants but somehow magically not losing a monocle implant)? |
LC Sulla
Caldari House Mekarae
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:56:00 -
[220]
I just can't get my head around why you (CCP) insist on calling these thing 'microtransactions'. You don't call a 1 month subscription a micro-transaction because it's a macro-transaction (15 Euro).
If the cheapest tier (admittedly a whole outfit) will be equivalent to a single PLEX then there is no micro about it. Why not throw out a ton of low tier vanity items for, say, a buck then more people might use it.
I personally think it's an odd business decision to start at the top (i.e. expensive) then be forced work your way down rather than start at the bottom with real MICRO-transactions then work your way up.
|
|
Celeste Benal
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:57:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Aineko Macx Your pricing is still off by two orders of magnitude.
Lower the prices substantially, and make the vanity items dropable & destroyable AND show on the kill mails. That would be 100% more eve-like.
^this. All of this. I was just thinking to myself that CCP could either increase the amount of Aur given per PLEX or drop some prices by 2-3x.
I actually like the look of some of the outfits in the NeX store. |
Ryas Nia
Minmatar Veto.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:58:00 -
[222]
your NEX items are breaking eve game play because they are not destructible, they need to be like implants and explode with your clone.
Teir 1 = $1-$2 an item Teir 2 = $3-$4 an item Teir 3 = $5+ an item
if they blow up then you will make far far more in the long haul as people will buy the same outfit more than once, at best your going to get $20 per 100 accounts (notice i did not say people) once a year with your current pricing and the fact that clothing does not explode.
Zinfandel, you should quit, you dont get Eve, or go work on WOD your pricing and fashion taste makes more sense there. Eve is hyper capitalism and there is no such thing as persistent objects (other than stations which needs to change too :P ) |
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 14:59:00 -
[223]
Lol.
Reading these Dev Blogs starts to amuse me in the same way old Godzilla movies amuse me. |
Juggalo Stazz
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:02:00 -
[224]
I can give a crap about what goes into the Nex store. The only thing I never want to see is a splash screen or a site update saying "Down time has been extended do to issues with stocking items in the Nex store" or anything to that effect. |
Zarnak Wulf
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:06:00 -
[225]
I'd prefer that CCP spends more of it's time balancing ships. Unless of course they make some Red Baron fighter goggles. I probably couldn't resist those... |
Celeste Benal
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:09:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Zagdul if they had released the lower tier first on the Incarna release, a metric fu%Kton of PLEX's would have been cashed in for AUR and the market would have literally crashed.
You don't understand markets at all. A sudden increase in demand (cashing in) of PLEX would have resulted in a drop in supply, thus increasing PLEX prices for isk. That is not a crash.
Personally, I was kind of hoping there would be a huge sudden bubble. I would have bought some PLEX and put them on the market. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:11:00 -
[227]
Why does the preview of NeX' items takes insane long times to load? This is NO fun at all.
|
SwissChris1
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:13:00 -
[228]
Stop making clothes and continue making ship re-designs! Seriously, it's been over a year since the new Scorpion model was released...now we got the Maller...time to give people what they REALLY want! |
Palovana
Caldari Inner Fire Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:18:00 -
[229]
CBA to read through the whole thread, only read the devblog and blue posts.
The default clothes cover my naughty bits just fine.
What's next CCP? Removing the clock from the bottom of the screen and letting us buy virtual watches for Aurum?
I couldn't care less about buying any of this stuff.
Enough of this posterior-oriented haberdashery! Stop trying to milk me for more $, my nipples hurt! Grumpy old men don't give milk! |
Dodgy Past
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:24:00 -
[230]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 08/07/2011 15:26:24 Suddenly PLEX has gone from a necessary evil to combat RMT to CCP actively promoting it as their own 'official' form of RMT. ( Encouraging people to buy PLEX, convert to Aurum, buy stuff then put on the market )
Why would anyone want to go through the effort re-establish an emotional connection with this game.
That's even before the fact that non-vanity items are so obviously on the way since the only reason it would be difficult to classify them would be if you want an excuse to sell some non-vanity items and argue that they are for vanity.
Whta bemuses me is Eve is the 2nd most succesfful MMO to ever be produced, the original model has worked extremely well and the only thing holding it back is bitterness at neglected features preventing more people recommending the game to others.
So you'd think the obvious thing would to to fix the obvious thing would be to work on the obvious flaws, not introduce MT and through the baby out with the bathwater. |
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Celgar Thurn
Minmatar You Need It
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:24:00 -
[231]
Most people will get miles more enjoyment from spending ú15 on a plex, selling it for ISK, and spending that on ships,bpc's,modules etc than on one 'affordable' uniform. You have no idea on the pricing whatsoever. I would suggest one plex (ú15) would buy a complete uniform,or four separate pieces for those who wished to 'mix n match',of the highest quality/rarest designs of clothing.The affordable would probably be priced at quarter or third of one plex ( ú4 to ú5.) for a complete uniform or four separate pieces. Better designs need to be made. Distinctive racial military uniforms for each four races need to be made. Other ranges of clothing coul be brought out such as industrial/mining clothing, 'business/trading' style designs, and mercenary/pirate influenced designs. The basic principle of the Nex store and Aurum is sound but it has been very poorly implemented and I fear without drastic changes it will fail miserably and have a negative effect on the EVE universe. |
Asta Ddu
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:25:00 -
[232]
What on earth are CCP thinking, cheap clothes costing more than a Battleship!!!
Get a grip on reality, stop adding stuff that doesnt affect the game and put people on to fixing bugs, some of which are as old as the game!
And get someone to explain to your shareholders that growth in income will come once the other projects you are working on are finished!
Concentrate on keeping your core customers not trying to alienate them! |
Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:31:00 -
[233]
Most people whining on this thread are basically saying the same thing, "these clothes are irrelevant".
Well, at the moment they are irrelevant. This is why rooms for socialising (bars etc) should be made available as soon as possible.
I don't agree that "worn clothing should be treated like cargo when it comes to combat". This is because the clothes you wear form part of your personal identity - losing them may cause reduced emotional attachment to Eve Online. |
SwissChris1
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:41:00 -
[234]
Edited by: SwissChris1 on 08/07/2011 15:41:25
Originally by: Mors Magne
Well, at the moment they are irrelevant. This is why rooms for socialising (bars etc) should be made available as soon as possible.
Yep this is where CCP failed big time...releasing the store before walking in stations...there would be marginally less whining imo |
Solosky
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:41:00 -
[235]
So CCP is about to transfer social in-equality from real world into the game - so 95-99% of gamers could see and feel themselves as bitterly poor peasants?
I demand $500 monocle (which should look gorgeous btw - not like present dog's a**hole) to feel myself at the same level of superiority as in RL!
=) |
Toriessian
Amarr Helion Production Labs IMPERIAL LEGI0N
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:42:00 -
[236]
Originally by: SwissChris1 Stop making clothes and continue making ship re-designs! Seriously, it's been over a year since the new Scorpion model was released...now we got the Maller...time to give people what they REALLY want!
Dude a few posts above you said he wanted Red Baron fighter goggles....lol thats kind of ironic |
kanmi
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:45:00 -
[237]
Ahhhhhhh!! Wanna make some money CCP! Got another AMAZING idea:
FIRE that cloths designers team, majority of your costumers realy dont wanna, dont need it or even care.
See.. saving money firing useless employees... BEST way! :P How amazing huh!? |
SwissChris1
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:45:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Toriessian
Dude a few posts above you said he wanted Red Baron fighter goggles....lol thats kind of ironic
I would totally pay 1 plex for Red Baron fighter goggles ...but not 4 plex or whatever CCP will want for them |
drinking12many
Minmatar Nine Inch Ninja Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:49:00 -
[239]
Swing and a miss.... space barbie ftmfl |
Doc Bizarro
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:53:00 -
[240]
LOL CCP |
|
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 15:57:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 08/07/2011 15:58:08
Originally by: Tarinara
Originally by: Resivan No matter how many times you trot out the "you can buy them for isk" line, it doesn't change the fact that a PLEX has a par value of $15. I'm not willing to spend more than a couple of bucks an item, especially as long as the items are this ugly. Show me prices in the AUR 250-500 range and I'll think about it.
I'm with Resivan on this point. Everything in that NeX store gets converted to 'Real Money' in my head. $20 for a PLEX to 3,500 Aurum ( because ultimately that's the path you want us taking to inject money into the game ). Plus considering you have to shell out $20.00 for a PLEX just to get in the door, that puts a damper on impulse buys to begin with.
It also seems y'all have a different definition of the phrase 'Micro Transaction'. I would think CCP would want these to fall under impulse purchases, much like the racks of magazines, candy and other assorted goodies at the check out in grocery stores. A buck or two for an individual item and maybe $5.00 or so for an entire 'outfit'. That puts it into the 'yeah sure, why not' category.
I doubt I'm in the minority when I say: '$20.00 for some digital bits that I can't really touch or take with me - I think not'...
You can already price ships in $ how many plex for a titan, mom and so on if you want. The only difference this is vanity items that you don't really need. I don't undestand why people think this way? Do you start ponder about the $ value of a titan you buy PLEX to get would been a nice downpayment on a new car?
If players don't care about or wont use the NEX shop, then dont use it or bother about it. If others do, let them do it. I got no intentions to use it, but cba either way if other players does.
As with supply and demand else in the world. If prices to high, no one will go for it. And as with EVE else. Just because something is in the game, doesn't mean everyone is able to use it or get it.
Why so much emo rage from serious inernetspaceships pilots anyways over barbie clothes |
Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:00:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Juil on 08/07/2011 16:06:20
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Ok I have specific questions here and I'm being open and honest about them:
- did you even look at other MMO's for your pricing strategy? Because honestly your prices seem to be a little high.
- Did you look at the PLEX costs when doing all of this. 2 plex = around 40$, that means that 7000 aur = 40$ which means that anything costing 4 plex = 80$ real life, please show me ANY other MMO charging anywhere CLOSE to this for a vanity item.
- Did you even look at the ISK cost for all of this?
- Why are all of these items being done in the form that they produce objects IN game from NOTHING?
- Why could the cost in AUR not be for a 1 run BPC or the like which then uses IN GAME planetary Resource Items and Industry to Create? This ability is already IN the game and would:
- Drive PI to actually be used for more then POS use.
- Still gain CCP Real Life money because the item is a B.P.C not a B.P.O
- Allow for the sale of the item far more easily on the eve market it actually has a DIRECT Isk cost beyond the price of the blue print.
- Create another new industry for the players to get into.
- Maintain the 'Players control what is created IN game aspect of eve.
- Did you even bother to consider the fact that AUR should be pruchasable seperate to PLEX?
- How on earth are you justifying the costs still? It does NOT take several hundred dollars to produce a single asset unless your 'outsourced' modelers are really bad.
Now you asked for the questions so there they are I'll be intrested to see if you bothe answering any of them with any real depth. |
Suicide Goddess
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:02:00 -
[243]
sadly, this topic is just another example of why i am letting my subs expire.
project entropia was a great game, till they went to micro transactions.
second life was great for user made items, but user created items create lag...
eve was find the way it was.
so long...
... and no, its my stuff... it will collect dust in my hanger. ;p |
Khamelean
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:10:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Khamelean on 08/07/2011 16:12:12 Is it just me, or can people not read?
Quote: An affordable tier outfit can be purchased and assembled for roughly the value of one PLEX in total - slightly cheaper if you are fortunate enough to time your purchase well.
A full outfit for 1 plex, that's five items (Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear slots) for approx $17.50. That's only $3.5 each. Assuming a isk cost of 400 mil per plex thats only 80 mil per item.
Yes it cost more that a battleship. But look at the prices of faction or officer mods, you can fit modules on your ship that cost a thousand times as much as the ship itself.
I see no problems with these prices at all. |
Minsc
Gallente Alpha Empire
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:11:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Ketaros Thunderclap The whole point is simple, and resumes to a marvelous simple move: - Make AUR be only bought with real money, without ANY connection with ISK.
Makes little sense. They would need to invent the wheel again, especially the trouble with accounting, billing etc. is way too high. Actually nothing useful can be gained by introducing a second, completely independent currency into EVE. Instead you have only PLEX and fractions of PLEX called Aur. They should have called it Plexicent instead of Aur though. The integration of Aur into EVE (through PLEX) is a great move and a very good thing.
Quote: I know PLEX was a big business mistake you guys did, dont try to correct a mistake doing another. CCP, do the math, separate real money from ISK, ASAP. I know MANY will hate me for saying this...
PLEX was the second best thing CCP ever did, the best one was GTC.
Quote: In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.
They aren't aiming for you. They are trying to attract *shock* new players! A different kind of player, those that like dress up etc. Too difficult to understand that? Looks like.
Are you actually moronic enough to think that a brand new player to eve is going to look at the NeX store prices and NOT Balk? Most new players will take 6 months or more to actually make enough isk a month to buy a plex each month AND be able to afford ships/skills in the same month. With the isk values of these items they are never going to be able to pay with ingame isk for these items, which just leaves real money and with those costs it will be a no-go.
I'm not someone who has a problem with MT when done right but everything that CCP has done with introducing the NeX has been so wrong it's just shocking. It just smacks of no planning and amateurish design of the worst kind. This dev blog has done nothing to explain HOW they came up with these prices, what games they used as reference or who these so called external 'consultants' were. Instead we got a couple of paragraphs and a random picture which gives us virtually no information besides the fact that CCP has decided to price their items in 3 tiers: Stupid ****ing expensive, ******ed ****ing expensive and ZOMG we're vikings super stupid ******ed ****ing expensive.
Oh and CCP FYI calling them vanity items is really a bit of a misnomer, players buy these COSMETIC items in games because THEY like how they look, not because they give two ****s how other people think they look, and this is maybe a large part of your problem. |
Matalino
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:12:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Morgan Polaris
Aaaaaaand, this is just another reason why you don't ask for more than real clothes:
http://i.imgur.com/76dY5.jpg
Has QA even bothered to give the clothes a once over before they are released? Every one of the shirts, coats, and skirts currently available in the NeX are missing polygons.
Specific items that have this type of problem include: Men's 'Sterling' Dress Shirt Women's 'Sterling' Dress Shirt Women's 'Impress' Skirt Women's 'Executor' Coat Men's 'Field Marshal' Coat
Do you need us to file bug reports about this obvious oversight?
|
Miliam Brinalle
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:14:00 -
[247]
Of course they know the prices are ridiculous. The whole point of this is to leech all the money they can off rich kids that want to show off their wealth to the plebes.
Just when I thought CCP couldn't get more ******ed you guys go and top off yourselves once again. Grats I guess. |
Tomarix Vindigo
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:14:00 -
[248]
As long as the cheapest "fluff" shirt costs as much as a navy bs, most pilots I know won't even take so much as a look at the shops goods.
But then, it might not be intended to be sold to the masses but to those few, that will be the only ones to recognize the "fluff" shirts out there, once we can leave the CQ.
I say, start with a tenth of those intended prices or lower. After all, you don't really get something for it.
Let us pimp our ships with loads of specials, colors, skins and stuff. This might sell high, but clothes for those prices... really... |
Pytria Le'Danness
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:17:00 -
[249]
That still keeps my three main issues with the store active:
Ridiculous expensive crappy stuff I would have bought outfits, quite possibly several of them. At these prices and thhis quality - thanks, I rather play two more months for the same effort.
Indestructible items. Had you made the items cheaper but destructible you would have created a great sink that also are more immersive and give one more reason to pod someone. Indestructible super items that spawn from thin air are not EVE, they are WoW.
Pricing with the only purpose to leech PLEX Why does one shirt cost 3400 aur? And the other 4400? That appears to me as the strategy being "The customer is stupid enough sp he does not notice we're ripping him off a second time here". Sorry, I don't like being called stupid.
I have enough ISK to buy a LOT of clothes even at current prices, and most likely I would have bought several if they had been decent looking AND a decent price. But what's in the NEx store (*) ... I refuse to wear an "I am stupid" sign.
(*) The shop was called "Needlessly Expensive", correct? |
Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:19:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Juil on 08/07/2011 16:26:22
Originally by: Khamelean Is it just or can people not read?
Quote: An affordable tier outfit can be purchased and assembled for roughly the value of one PLEX in total - slightly cheaper if you are fortunate enough to time your purchase well.
A full outfit for 1 plex, that's five items (Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear slots) for approx $17.50. That's only $3.5 each. Assuming a isk cost of 400 mil per plex thats only 80 mil per item.
Yes it cost more that a battleship. But look at the prices of faction or officer mods, you can fit modules on your ship that cost a thousand times as much as the ship itself.
I see no problems with these prices at all.
Those objects don't cost us Real money, they can be blown up and the like. Plus PLEX prices fluctate.. a FULL outfit in say Everquest 2 will only cost you 800 SOE cash, a Full outfit in star Trek online only costs a small amount of the C-store currency, Even things like Dragon Balls and the like in Conqure Online which is PAY TO WIN you get a lot for like 1 - 5$ etc. These prices are still way to high compared to the Raw $$ price when you compare them to OTHER games that use simular items. Even in Wow the Celestial Steed is 25$ ONE OFF useable on ANY SERVER, ANY Character.. here that same 25$ will get you an item that only exists once.
Oh and S.O.E games ie EQ2? Most items = Useable on more then one of your characters. Ie pay once item added to ACCOUNT not to Character.
But the other issue again is why it's being done in a manner that Takes away from the In game production? Honestly I couldn't care if they put Gold Plated Space ships in but why take away from player production?
And also I find it rather offensive that things like 'repainting' and 'customizing' of our ships will be pay rl $$ for when CCP knows these features have been much requested and have been promising them for years .. while other games let you adjust ship coloring etc for FREE (ST:O is just one example).
Oh and I should Note something else, Those High PRICED items in other games.. aren't just static Vanity Items that don't do anything for you.. (unless it's the cute pets done for Charity in wow)..
The Celestial Mount: Well it's a Max Speed Flying Mount Dah.
New Ships in ST:O : Whole new ship class avalible to you.
New Race in DD:O - Whole new race opened up to you
New Race in ST:O - see above.
Mount in EQ2: - Hey it's a mount useable that's right on ALL of your characters.
XP potions in EQ2: hey they boost your XP gain.
etc etc etc.
Your asking for a lot of RL $$$ for stuff that is vanity and does nothing In game.. and if it did things in game then well you've already seen the reaction you get to that... which again those modules mentioned before all DO something IN GAME. |
|
Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:21:00 -
[251]
I think you still made some basic flaws in assumption.
If you can get a complete base level outfit for roughly a plex. . . why on earth would anyone actualy buy them with ISK?
Basicaly you have a "profit tax" on every step in your loop for purly internal consumption
Plex with ISK, the person with the Plex wants a "profit" for selling his Plex for ISK
the person with the Plex who converts it to Arum then converts it to items wants a profit for his conversion so he can buy another plex
the person with the item is also basicaly adding an inconvience tax to the process, because I honstly doubt theres gona be very many people who bother with reselling for ISK at this point.
the person with the |
Kersh Marelor
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:22:00 -
[252]
So now artist's efforts and time go into desinging shirts and thongs, while game and economy designers try to balance out the prices of all that crap? Could we please get you to drop this useless nonsense and start working on the actual game? Many ships would love redesigning and with balancing and reworking game mechanics it is hard to tell where to start with all the mess. But noooo... CCP is working on space-pants making ******ed videos where they themselves forget to use freaking bubbles on hostile fleet... |
Pytria Le'Danness
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:31:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Kersh Marelor So now artist's efforts and time go into desinging shirts and thongs, while game and economy designers try to balance out the prices of all that crap? Could we please get you to drop this useless nonsense and start working on the actual game? Many ships would love redesigning and with balancing and reworking game mechanics it is hard to tell where to start with all the mess. But noooo... CCP is working on space-pants making ******ed videos where they themselves forget to use freaking bubbles on hostile fleet...
I have to agree - the money spent on the wage of a Goggle designer might be better put up for another programmer.
I was looking forward to Incarna and was hoping it might attract some new players, but I can't really bring myself to advertise it in it's current state. Much less than admit that I play a game where virtual goods with no game benefit cost more than their real life counterparts. |
Chiggy W
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:34:00 -
[254]
This is ******ed, truly bat**** insane ******ed.
I want to play spaceships, not metro-sexual fashion show in a crappy closet. Even IF I wanted to play metro-sexual fashion show in space, I would in no way shape or form want to pay the the prices you are asking for what amounts to a picture on a computer, that I don't actually own.
Your comparison to RL items ($1000 jeans and golf) show that you guys have really lost touch. Whatever it ius you guys are drinking and/or smoking, please stop, cause your killing this game.
Oh, I guess the drop in subscription that caused the OMG CSM halp! meeting didn't send a clear enough message. |
Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:37:00 -
[255]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
Thanks for mentioning this. Please keep us posted on the progress of turning AUR products into a fully player-driven economy.
One thought I had about making things player-driven yet keeping a low, med, high, ultra-lux pricing tier is implement a system of laborers on planets & POS installations. low-skilled laborers work quickly and are inexpensive (children of course), medium-skilled laborers cost more & take longer, and of course the high & ultra lux laborers are exceptionally skilled craftsmen.
So, to make a medium-tier product for resale on the AUR market, one must first get the materials (another use for PI). Rare materials can also help to bring the costs up a pricing tier. Then after materials have been gathered, each BPO requires a type of laborer. Perhaps 4 low-quality laborers & 1 medium-quality laborer. Then start the project, and these laborers cost ISK upon starting the project.
I know a system like this would take some time to implement, but it really would add a new layer of gameplay that will help fuel this market. The one thought I have is how to limit initial sales of the product to the NeX store, I'm not sure. If someone makes the product they should be able to choose which market they wish to sell it... |
mobius nm
Minmatar Imperativa
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:43:00 -
[256]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
If it's about learning, you should probably first learn how to use a dictionary, and look up 'micro' Following that daunting task, you should return to a community college and take the entry level business economics class. After scaling that insurmountable obstacle, you should probably resign your position in shame, having realized what a giant ****-up you are. |
Tarinara
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:48:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 08/07/2011 15:58:08You can already price ships in $ how many plex for a titan, mom and so on if you want. The only difference this is vanity items that you don't really need. I don't undestand why people think this way? Do you start ponder about the $ value of a titan you buy PLEX to get would been a nice downpayment on a new car?
If players don't care about or wont use the NEX shop, then dont use it or bother about it. If others do, let them do it. I got no intentions to use it, but cba either way if other players does.
As with supply and demand else in the world. If prices to high, no one will go for it. And as with EVE else. Just because something is in the game, doesn't mean everyone is able to use it or get it.
Why so much emo rage from serious inernetspaceships pilots anyways over barbie clothes
Actually - I do price PLEX = Intertubez Spaceship = Real Dollars. And right now ( give or take a bit ) 1 PLEX is about a CNR. Or ... a Barbies in Space outfit ( give or take ).
As for all the Nerd Rage: I suppose it's because CCP has been cramming this down everyone's throat as the next best thing since, well - Internet Spaceships I suppose. And now that we see the pricing structure ( and our closet that melts most graphics cards ): there's probably a little 'resentment' that things involving the actual spaceship part of the game have been put on the back burner for this.
I happen to fall into the the 'Screw the Nex store' group. After seeing the pricing, I can see this isn't something CCP has done to keep me paying them $15/month. I hope it works out for them though. After the Nerfs to L4 missions and the supposed 'fixes' to Eve Farmville I only take the 5 days free/reduced 2 month subscription rate to rake up a couple months of skill points. There's very little I actually 'play' the game for any more. |
Diametrix
Caldari Wavefront Industries
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:50:00 -
[258]
Edited by: Diametrix on 08/07/2011 16:53:44 Edited by: Diametrix on 08/07/2011 16:51:13 Let's all wake up and see what is happening here: CCP is pushing the MMO market forward.
Stop looking at this with 2010 MMO eyes. They are doing with Incarna and the NEX what they intend to do with DUST; create a new revenue stream and tie it, in an integral but initially separate manner, to the EVE game.
If this seems unpleasant, greedy, 'not right', or <pick a negative adjective here>, you're looking at this with 2010 MMO eyes. Wake up and watch this potentially change the marketplace!
EVE, an independently produced game(essentially solely owned and operated by CCP) and without deep ties to the market leading gaming companies of the time, launches and slowly grows into a new market leader. New games are being modeled in its market niche.
Now, with a successful MMO, CCP is pushing the business model forward by developing new gaming products in separate gaming markets (Platforms, Fantasy MMOs, and a brand new one never before seen).
They create a new product like DUST, WoD, or Incarna and the NEX and tie them to other successful products like EVE, untapped White Wolf/CCP intellectual property and EVE, respectively. This gives the new product the customer base cross injection while boosting the customer to product interaction in the source game.
Now for something Really Different! CCP is developing the highest quality avatars seen in gaming. They are in a gaming industry that is drifting more and more towards varied streams of revenue (most industries do this as they mature). Micro-transactional revenue streams are in vogue.
CCP is going to be the gaming industryÆs leader in avatar fashion. They are going to take clothes and other micro transactionable products to a new level of æqualityÆ and customer appeal.
If they do it right, it changes the gaming marketplace. If they do it wrong it looks like a flopped business venture. However it turns out, you have to hand it to CCP, they are taking a big shot.
|
Kane Molou
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:56:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Diametrix Edited by: Diametrix on 08/07/2011 16:53:44 Edited by: Diametrix on 08/07/2011 16:51:13 Let's all wake up and see what is happening here: CCP is pushing the MMO market forward.
Stop looking at this with 2010 MMO eyes.(more stuff snipped)
Ahhh no offense you do realise it's 2011 right?
And CCP may think their innovating all they want but really unless your a billionar with money to burn who is going to spend more Rl money on virtual clothing over a long period of time then they'd cost in real life? 4 plex = 80$ you can't 'change' that that = how much RL money that plex costs so 3,500 x 4 AUR = 80$
If CCP wishes to continue charging that type of 'price' maybe they should stop calling it MICRO transactions. |
Vincent Athena
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:57:00 -
[260]
Edited by: Vincent Athena on 08/07/2011 17:08:42 I will add my voice to the request for lower priced items. I got no issues with the tier idea or the prices of the current items, but I think you need to add still lower ones. For example you could call your current tiers "extravagant", "luxury" and "high". Then add a "medium" tier where the cost is set to where one PLEX gives you a wardrobe of several items for each slot, an "affordable" tier where one PLEX gets a wardrobe for all three pilots in an account, and a "basic" tier which is free, essentially the clothes you can get at character creation time.
Also it sure would be nice if we could save a clothing setup like we can save ship fittings. Being able to swap your look to something you have previously set up really should be "press button, receive bacon", not 10 minutes of playing dress up. That level of convenience may encourage additional sales as well.
Edit: Also you need more slots, and additional slots it another reason for lower cost items. Accessories can go in a wide rage of locations: Head, eyes, ears, wrists, fingers, and so on. You could easily have 20 or more slots. If the lowest cost item was a quarter of a PLEX per slot, it would be quite expensive. You need the lower cost tiers. |
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Malrock
Caldari Mea Culpa Enigma
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:58:00 -
[261]
ROFLMAO |
Palovana
Caldari Inner Fire Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 16:58:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Diametrix However it turns out, you have to hand it to CCP, they are taking a big shot.
I believe you spelled that last word incorrectly. |
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:18:00 -
[263]
Glad to know this is where player resources are going. To market shills and hacks who see consumers as nothing but a profit opportunity. To people who believe that metrics can actually speak anything tangible aside the language of greed. To the fashion industry, a proprietor of vanity and disillusion willing to cast forth their ugly ideal into the world, utterly disconnected from the here and now, more than willing to distort and destroy the image of the body and mind.
As consumers you are no longer respected, you are now the lowest common denominator and shall be awash in a sea bereft of morality or dignity. This is what you are paying for, enjoy it. |
Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:19:00 -
[264]
Making a new portrait for your char every time you change some piece of clothing or whatever is a significant pain in the ass and a serious detraction to take part in this whole business.
The mandatory creation of new portrait after every char mod needs to become optional. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:24:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 17:25:02
Originally by: Diametrix Let's all wake up and see what is happening here: CCP is pushing the MMO market forward.
Just one problem: none of this is new, and CCP is actually following in a well-trodden pathà except they're making mistakes that everyone else learned about many years ago.
Forging your own path is nice and all, but that doesn't mean there is no room for lessons already learned by others. |
Taldek Norran
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 17:35:00 -
[266]
Normally I think forum whiners are just whining, but this is one issue in which I agree with all the people who are upset.
Not only are the prices incredibly high (and way above what I'd ever pay for a vanity item) but the pricing system doesn't make any sense, and is likely to discourage purchases from anyone but older players who just buy these things 'for the lulz'.
Furthermore, now I have the expectation that instead of regularly getting new assets and updates to the character creator, we'll instead have to be buying them in the Noble Exchange store, which really turns me off.
If I could pay just 5 dollars, for a pack of 10 new outfit items...I'd do so gladly. If I could gain a small sum of aurum automatically for having a subscription...I'd be all for it. But 1 Plex for 3-4 items? That's ridiculous.
I'm keeping my subscription cancelled until/unless this gets sorted out. |
Kytheria
Minmatar Relevent Technologies
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:02:00 -
[267]
CCP clearly missed the memo on what the word microtransaction means. 1 PLEX for a low range item? Seriously 350-400m ISK for an outfit? For that cost that outfit had better be encrusted with megacyte and morphite.
I'd like to think that CCP has something with the whole spaceship barbies thing, but the pricing structure needs to be scaled down by a few orders of magnitude. |
Andre Coeurl
Gallente TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:04:00 -
[268]
I thought the item pricing was ridiculous at first sight, but reading this dev blog, I, as well as so many others, relized it's WORSE than ridiculous XD I quite expect the whole NeX business to be a complete fail, and I pity those who'll buy any item in it, if you buy something there you must have some serious problem in your connection to reality... |
Ford Chicago
Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:08:00 -
[269]
It is really hard to express just how much I don't care about what my fscking outfit looks like.
It is truly astonishing to me how much time and energy CCP is spending on space Barbie instead of space ships. |
Dalketh
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:11:00 -
[270]
Unbelievable. So this is the pricing structure the 'heroes' of the CSM agree was reasonable? A plex for the lowest tier outfit of computer pixels?
The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":
"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."
The puff didn't happen Mittani. And where is this logic that you saw that we should be seeing?
Where is CSM response to any of this? |
|
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:14:00 -
[271]
Not re-subbing any of my 4 accounts even if you gave me every freaking fashion for free. Don't give two squirts for dressup.
What I might have paid real $ for is paint jobs on space ships. But if clothes are this expensive, then painting even a frigate would have to cost a fortune to maintain some kind of reasonable relationship between items.
But nevermind this NeX stuff, that isn't really a gameplay issue. Forced decanting is the real indicator that CCP has lost the plot. |
Marbella Wilson
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:17:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Dalketh Unbelievable. So this is the pricing structure the 'heroes' of the CSM agree was reasonable? A plex for the lowest tier outfit of computer pixels?
The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":
"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."
The puff didn't happen Mittani. And where is this logic that you saw that we should be seeing?
Where is CSM response to any of this?
It's safe to say now that CCP has used the CSM as a bunch of tools, they are nothing more than a PR ploy ! |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:23:00 -
[273]
I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that
Those
Pricing
Tiers
Are
Not
Micro
And
Are
Utterly
******ed |
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:24:00 -
[274]
Edited by: Raid''En on 08/07/2011 18:26:37
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Downtime starts in 15 minutes and will make some small tweaks to the store goods at that time (and add a few new items.)
you can't buy a whole set of clothes for one plex from what you added. try to at least do what you say...
there's still only 1000$ pants on the store. add some cheap pants plz... and boots are still way to expensive. even when incarna will allow interaction, there's no way people will look at each others boots... we will look at top, sometimes at pants, but boots no.
eyes and top have also the big advtange of being on the portrait.
top and eye slot have to be more expensive, but others parts must be way cheaper given they have way less appeal. (hint : as perv' don't care about money you can easily put skirts at high price, i'm sure they won't care :p)
onoy good things is that the man coat is "only" 3 plexes. i was thinking it would be 24 000 AUR given monocle's price... but well, if it's not ridiculous, it's still totally unabordable. but MAYBE i'll think about it in 6 months / 1 year when we have the real incarna.
but anyway, you sitll missed the point : on others game you don't get ONE piece of clothes for 2-3$, you get the WHOLE SET for this price. here the cheap set is at 15$. at least add some nice shirts at 500$...
and please, more pictures. nice to see some clothes that are not on sisi, but make them better, and more. |
Manu Intiraymi
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:26:00 -
[275]
Eve has soundAurum? |
Audrey Koshka
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:29:00 -
[276]
CCP Zinfandel, a clothing request please - I'd love it if you ported over the clothing options from the old character creator. I think they'd sell well, particularly to older players who have fond memories of their old outfits. I definitely have a sense of nostalgia for my old Khanid outfit:
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
I'd buy a copy for each jump clone in a heartbeat. I'll be attending EVE Vegas at the end of the month, if you or a trusted representative will be there, bribes are available too... |
Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:33:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 08/07/2011 18:35:45
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 08/07/2011 17:25:02
Originally by: Diametrix Let's all wake up and see what is happening here: CCP is pushing the MMO market forward.
Just one problem: none of this is new, and CCP is actually following in a well-trodden pathà except they're making mistakes that everyone else learned about many years ago.
Forging your own path is nice and all, but that doesn't mean there is no room for lessons already learned by others.
In total agreement here.
Hopefully the plan behind the plan is to roll it out high and gauge reaction, if it doesn't sell start aiming for lower price points until it does.
I think your low and middle tiers of pricing are going to be leaving too large a percentage of your game population in the DUST (pardon the pun).
There are a huge number of people who would be interested in dabbling, and the lower tiers would be the perfect place. Once they got started the next, more expensive items, would be easier and easier for them to justify. But if even the lower two tiers are to high, they simply won't bother at all.
|
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:37:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Carai an''Caldazar on 08/07/2011 18:40:29
Originally by: Lykouleon I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that
Those
Pricing
Tiers
Are
Not
Micro
They are just trying to model hyper inflation.
You know, 400,000,000 ISK for a pair of pants. The added button clicks that go from ISK to Aurum to Pants are just the fleecing of your RL wallet as part of the equation :)
Here's an idea - just tossing this out there. I was sadly mistaken as this is what I originally interpreted your Aurum idea to be. How about make clothes, well, affordable? Keep the Aurum conversion rate, and price outfits in the 10s of Aurum. Expensive outfits in the hundreds of Aurum. Insanely expensive outfits maybe nearing a thousand Aurum [maybe].
If I want to be a fashionable individual in EVE, I would then be able to buy a PLEX and be set for quite some time in setting up a wardrobe and buying various outfits. At these prices, most RL individuals who start spending time in stations (camped in 0.0 anyone?), might want something fashionable to wear. Nearly every pilot would likely buy a single PLEX to invest in clothing for now/future, and all would be well. Your critics would calm down, your players would be content, and the high demand for these items due to their AFFORDABLE price would keep your software engineers... err... virtual clothing designers employed. Best of all, you would not break immersion as it would be perfectly plausible that immortal pod pilots might spend a couple thousand ISK (a couple Aurum) on a piece of clothing, and/or a couple million ISK (tens/hundreds of Aurum) on something outrageous.
When you (and talking to CCP here) prefer to break immersion to make a RL dollar or two, introduce items in game that have no practical purpose other than to show how rich a person is in real life, and generally fail to understand why we - your playerbase - pays to pay this game, it gets annoying. I'm not going to rage quit over this, but to say the least it has shaped my "water cooler" conversation at work from my hobby of internet spaceships to how the company that makes my internet spaceships game is trying to create space barbie so they can charge us to accessorize. |
Garekell
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:38:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Dalketh Unbelievable. So this is the pricing structure the 'heroes' of the CSM agree was reasonable? A plex for the lowest tier outfit of computer pixels?
The Mittani on the CCP/CSM "press conference":
"From the CSM statement it should be obvious that the roll-out of the Noble exchange was a debacle. At least from the player's perspective. I believe firmly -and this is one of the action points coming out of the summit- that CCP should have explicitly stated their tier strategy and explained that in a developer blog. They should have shown the visual targets for the items in the Noble exchange to the player-base. Had they done this it would have been sorted out. Most of the controversy regarding the Noble exchange would have vanished in a puff of logic."
The puff didn't happen Mittani. And where is this logic that you saw that we should be seeing?
Where is CSM response to any of this?
THIS. A week after CSM/CCP talk YET AGAIN about communication and listening to the people, and we get a politically correct nothing of a blog on vanity prices, which are still outrageous ignoring one of the main player concerns with it.
Just one week and it starts falling apart again - way to go. |
RC Denton
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:40:00 -
[280]
Edited by: RC Denton on 08/07/2011 18:41:00 Ya those prices are a bit, umm, much. I could see paying 1 plex for clothing BPOs or something along those lines, but not for just an outfit. That said I think that if they released Lingerie for female toons, you'd see a very high demand for that as single computer nerd players do their own versions of space barbie playboy photo shoots . |
|
Kinuko
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:42:00 -
[281]
So finally CCP went full nuts. Or maybe they made their research correctly and there are huge amounts of ******s playing EVE online. I don't know which one is correct tbh. |
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:44:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Carai an'Caldazar
Originally by: Lykouleon I thought CCP had a doctor in Economics on hand? Or at least someone with enough business expertise to explain that
Those
Pricing
Tiers
Are
Not
Micro
And
Are
Utterly
******ed
They are just trying to model hyper inflation.
You know, 400,000,000 ISK for a pair of pants. The added button clicks that go from ISK to Aurum to Pants are just the fleecing of your RL wallet as part of the equation :)
Here's an idea - just tossing this out there. I was sadly mistaken as this is what I originally interpreted your Aurum idea to be. How about make clothes, well, affordable? Keep the Aurum conversion rate, and price outfits in the 10s of Aurum. Expensive outfits in the hundreds of Aurum. Insanely expensive outfits in the few thousand Aurum.
If I want to be a fashionable individual in EVE, I would then be able to buy a PLEX and be set for quite some time in setting up a wardrobe and buying various outfits. At these prices, most RL individuals who start spending time in stations (camped in 0.0 anyone?), might want something fashionable to wear. Nearly every pilot would likely buy a single PLEX to invest in clothing for now/future, and all would be well. Your critics would calm down, your players would be content, and the high demand for these items due to their AFFORDABLE price would keep your software engineers... err... virtual clothing designers employed. Best of all, you would not break immersion as it would be perfectly plausible that immortal pod pilots might spend a couple thousand ISK (a couple Aurum) on a piece of clothing, and/or a couple million ISK (tens/hundreds of Aurum) on something outrageous.
When you (and talking to CCP here) prefer to break immersion to make a RL dollar or two, introduce items in game that have no practical purpose other than to show how rich a person is in real life, and generally fail to understand why we - your playerbase - pays to pay this game, it gets annoying. I'm not going to rage quit over this, but to say the least it has shaped my "water cooler" conversation at work from my hobby of internet spaceships to how the company that makes my internet spaceships game is trying to create space barbie so they can charge us to accessorize.
CCP's response: In future, please put the important bit "I'm not going to rage quit over this," up front so we don't have to waste so much time reading your hurf-durf. |
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:46:00 -
[283]
Quote: CCP's response: In future, please put the important bit "I'm not going to rage quit over this," up front so we don't have to waste so much time reading your hurf-durf.
I've read Hilmar's e-mail, but I still have faith that CCP cares about their fans slightly more than "if they don't quit, F*ck 'em" |
Vincent Athena
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:48:00 -
[284]
Some more comments:
Te need or desire to have clothes for clones is yet another reason you need lower prices. Even with your present lowest tier, what would it take for me to have a full wardrobe for each of my clones for all seven of my pilots? $1000? $20000? Its silly expensive.
So CCP: given all the cost comments in this thread, what do you think about tiers that are lower cost, say taking off a zero or two?
On another note: When I first heard about incarna, I really really really was looking forward to being able to be creative, design and produce my own clothing line. But the way you have set things up that is not possible. Ive heard two reasons: You want clothes in "the style of eve" and an industry term: "Time to P**** (read: Gentleman's sausage)". For the first, as this is a sandbox, should not the players decide what the style of eve is? For the second, and to some extent the first, I got a proposal: Aurum for player designed content.
How it would work: If a player designs something, you do not automatically allow it in the game. Someone at CCP examines the item and see if it is appropriate. If it is, in it goes. But what about the time CCP spends doing this task, what pays for that? Well, the player does, via Aurum. This way we get to be creative and the sandbox can evolve.
CCP; have you considered anything like this? |
Kilrath Uskarl
Caldari EVE University Ivy League
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:54:00 -
[285]
I love EVE, it's my favorite game. I hate what you guys are doing right now. Why not just make the clothes available for isk only and then if people really really want them they can sell plex. Please just close the stupid store. Please I beg you. It's a horrible idea, you've guys have had tons of great ideas but this is not one of them. I'd be willing to pay a buck or two more in my subscription to not see the noble exchange or anything anyone buys from it. |
Zeta Kalin
Large Rodent Hunters
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:54:00 -
[286]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning.
[...]
Any questions?
Yes. What bleach brand tastes the best?
Seriously, way not to address how immersion breaking this pricing is. Clothes more expensive than aircraft carriers are just completely ludicrous, luxury item or not. You are (were?) in the business of selling a MMORPG. Since you seem to have forgotten I'll tell you what the three last letters mean. Role Playing Game. Well you broke it, utterly.
Anyway, thanks for making it clear, no regrets whatsoever about leaving. Wishing you the best in your milking of the bovine player base that will be left.
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 18:55:00 -
[287]
The sellouts in here who are whining that they don't mind that the game is broken, that CCP are liars, that the whole last expansion was about playing overheat-my-video-card-prison-cell-barbie but that OMG they won't STAND for such OUTRAGEOUS PRICES make me chuckle a bit.
If CCP were otherwise competent/honest and the game wasn't so bugged/bot-ridden/broken, if Aurum hadn't been introduced and if Incarna were optional, dropping a few hundred million ISK for an indestructible outfit would be a perfectly reasonable price and an excellent ISK sink.
Lots of valid complaints about CCP to choose from. Pricing strategy on space-barbie clothes ain't one. |
Ghoest
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:03:00 -
[288]
Do you realize how stupid you look putting out blogs to answer question then conspicuously NOT answering them? |
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:03:00 -
[289]
Players been asking for more ISK faucets in EVE for a long time, now that we get one, no one appricate it either. Seriously people need to stop convert PLEX to real world $ and then compare to jeans you buy at wallmart or whatever.
I played EVE since 2003, the last month I never seen the EVE community so much up in flames and whine so much. It kinda made me feel embarrased, because for a long time the EVE community sort of held a higher ground to many other mmo commmunities out there, or at least that been the impression.
If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.
I just look at Incarna, CQ and such as the first step towards something else. I don't like it particular just now (neither does my gfx card), but who nows what future bring right? Just like I didn't like many other changes that happend in the past and unresolved things/issues.
I don't plan to spend a single AUR in the NEX shop, and rather than ***** about prices there, just don't use it already. If no one use it, price will go down. And if price doesn't go down, and people dress their space barbies from it, let them.
The people designing dress's and stuff for NEX shop is not the same people that code the game. CCP got several teams working on different things, I thought most had understod that by now though. |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:07:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Players been asking for more ISK faucets in EVE for a long time, now that we get one, no one appricate it either.
It's not an ISK faucet, so people not appreciating it from that perspective is hardly surprising. |
|
Solosky
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:07:00 -
[291]
CCP Zinfandel
Did you pay $70 out of your pocket for your monocle? |
Dr Sodius
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:08:00 -
[292]
as long as they are ONLY vanity items in the NeX shop, i dont care if they cost 2 or 200 plexes.. b/c no one need this
REMEMBER CCP! only vanitiy items! |
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:14:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Ghoest Do you realize how stupid you look putting out blogs to answer question then conspicuously NOT answering them?
if he had realized he wouldn't have blogged... well i hope xD |
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:15:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Dr Sodius as long as they are ONLY vanity items in the NeX shop, i dont care if they cost 2 or 200 plexes.. b/c no one need this
REMEMBER CCP! only vanitiy items!
No, not only vanity items. They only 'plan' to sell vanity items in their vanity items store.
The non vanity items such as restoring functionality that they broke, skillpoints, etc., will be sold via another distribution channel (not in their vanity items store.)
Then when the massive influx of Japanese players occurs, their 'plans' will change and you'll get the gold ammo/ships. |
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:17:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.
Many would ignore Incarna if they could. It isn't planned to be optional, though. Trolling?
I believe most people have many different things that makes them upset. It isn't just one thing but many (like 18 months etc.). Stuff pile up and when people don't see a brighter future then they should react IMO. This latest fiasco just happened to be the last straw. We don't know what the future holds but will make our own conclusions. This is by CCP design, if they wanted to give a clearer picture of the future then they could. |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:22:00 -
[296]
Dear CCP,
You realize, by having "pricing tiers" with a high and middle being so high up there, that you are devaluing the "ultra low tier" (or whatever) - the one people would be actually willing to buy off of, to the point it becomes unappealing.
What you are doing is sacrificing what would be your core market for a make believe market.
Actually, that kind of sounds like EVE versus WOD. . . |
Sakura Ren Fenikkusu
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 -
[297]
Edited by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu on 08/07/2011 19:36:49 Edited by: Sakura Ren Fenikkusu on 08/07/2011 19:34:01
Originally by: Suicide Goddess ... and no, its my stuff... it will collect dust in my hanger. ;p
Well, technically it's CCP stuff they were just letting you use it since you had a subscription.(See ToS) CCP, can I have his stuff?
Now, let's throw some numbers around to look for solutions.
For Consideration:
- CASH $15 = 3,500 AUR = 1 PLEX = 370 mil ISK
- 'Looking Glass Occular Implant' = 12,000 AUR = 1.3bil ISK = ~$50
- 'Mens Boots' = 1,000 AUR = 105mil ISK = $4
Now, the only way to adjust these values, without interfering with the pre-existing economy, would be to INCREASE how much AUR you get from PLEX, or to DECREASE the value of items in the NeX.
For Example:
- CASH $15 = 10,000 AUR (Modified) = 1 PLEX = 370 mil ISK
- 'Looking Glass Occular Implant' = 12,000 AUR = ~450mil ISK = ~$20
- 'Mens Boots' = 1,000 AUR = ~40mil ISK = $2
CCP will be making less money per item, but they will probably get more sales than if they were to remain at current prices.
Altering the PLEX -> AUR ratio will also bring the value of items closer to what would be more role-play friendly.
Hmm..If you think about it, we currently have to get out of our pods every time we dock, surely we aren't getting dressed/undressed every time. We could reason that Capsuleer's clothes are more expensive because they are designed to be resistant to and submerged in pod fluid...LOL
|
Cherry Nobyl
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 -
[298]
I got into this game for the Science Fiction, not the Science Fashion.
If Space Barbie is the only thing we can look forward to in the next few updates to a subscription game, then there's no reason for me to stay with Eve CCP. |
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:34:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Ra Vhim
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
If you dont like the direction something take, don't use it. Act like a five year old and go ape**** doesn't solve things.
Many would ignore Incarna if they could. It isn't planned to be optional, though. Trolling?
I believe most people have many different things that makes them upset. It isn't just one thing but many (like 18 months etc.). Stuff pile up and when people don't see a brighter future then they should react IMO. This latest fiasco just happened to be the last straw. We don't know what the future holds but will make our own conclusions. This is by CCP design, if they wanted to give a clearer picture of the future then they could.
Yeah but end of the day this is CCP's baby. I tried other mmo's out there and even tested some in the works, but none been able to draw me a way from EVE. Why that? Maybe because of a lot invested in time, effort, friends and so on. I guess players get emotionaly attached in one way, but keep attack CCP over and over when they want to expand, go new ways etc doesn't help. It would have been sad if EVE hadn't changed/evolved since it launched.
As for many players posting on the forums claiming to unsub and such, fine for them, its their way to disagree. It's not what you say, but what you do right? But at same time I see a lot of new players in EVE these days as well. CCP will notice with subs going either way. Having people post on the forums saying they unsubing doesn't mean much before the actual numbers show it.
PLEX already made EVE a playground for people with deep wallets in the real world, characters get farmed and sold for isk bought by PLEX, so ***** about this whole NEX shop and prices of space barbie clothes (vanity items), is way to late. |
Ze'ev Sinraali
Ataraxia Pharmacies
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:42:00 -
[300]
Lab coat.
I need a lab coat CCP.
I can't do science without one. |
|
Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari Veto. Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:52:00 -
[301]
I have no problem with vanity items. I don't even mind a few expensive vanity items being made available. But it really is the case that these are not microtransactions even at the low-tier.
Suggesting an adjustment of PLEX -> Aurum from 3500 to at least 5000. Increased accessibility means more sales. More sales that could offset the lower price tag. A mid-range outfit at 3-4 PLEX is pretty ridiculous, even if it is current indestructible outside of the cargo hold.
I seriously hope that microtransactions in DUST514, where bought virtual goods have gameplay implications, are not upwards of $15. |
E man Industries
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:52:00 -
[302]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
I hope this happens. same for CQ decor and furnature...also want by dang striper pole w/ stripper for the corp lounge. |
Ra Vhim
Black Bag Ops
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 19:56:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
It would have been sad if EVE hadn't changed/evolved since it launched.
I agree. It would be even better if most developers actually helped Eve to evolve instead of putting Eve on life support while overextending and fearlessly developing 2 other games.
Quote:
As for many players posting on the forums claiming to unsub and such, fine for them, its their way to disagree. It's not what you say, but what you do right? But at same time I see a lot of new players in EVE these days as well. CCP will notice with subs going either way. Having people post on the forums saying they unsubing doesn't mean much before the actual numbers show it.
Yes. People should unsub and stay away until Eve gets back on track (from their perspective), but as you said, people are emotionally attached. Some will leave, other will stay but become (even more) bitter. I believe that what people say are very important. Most players here are playing Eve because someone sold to them how awesome Eve and CCP is. It is a different message going out ATM which isn't especially good. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.08 19:57:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Vandrion on 08/07/2011 20:01:29 Edited by: Vandrion on 08/07/2011 20:00:41
Originally by: E man Industries
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
I hope this happens. same for CQ decor and furnature...also want by dang striper pole w/ stripper for the corp lounge.
No, you don't want this to happen... This will open the door for CCP to introduce all the new ship and module bpos/bpcs for sale in the NeX only.....
Remember that CCP is "learning" with this crap. They are "learning" what they can get away with and what the players will find acceptable. They will then push those limits and spin themselves out of a hole by saying---"Well you liked it with the $1000 pants. The new T3 frig introduction is no different."
You can't give CCP an inch or they will take 200 miles. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:05:00 -
[305]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
That'll be interesting to see come about. It will be useless however if the method that these items are sold is Au. As it is right now, a player designer that could get something on the Nex could only receive Au, which is not at all liquid. Designers will be forced to purchase from the Nex, to buy their own designs and then sell them for ISK. That would be an undesirable hoop. If it is not on the Nex and on a sort of ISK based exchange, that will help, or if Au can be placed on the market directly, that will also help.
Also consider, if designs can be seen and purchased anywhere, this will push all prices downwards. Volumes may increase but prices will go down, reducing the incentive for player designers to create. IMO, it would be better if designers had to stick to a store front at one location and/or sell on regional markets for ISK. It will impact visibility, but will also constrain supply to some degree, likely enough to overcome initial depreciation and the power of global accessibility and visibility, but not over the long term. Another rather un-Eve like solution is to make player designed and sold items be something that can not be resold. I don't like that, but I think it illustrates the point.
This from the blog, "As with the rest of EVE the market is based on supply and demand and selling clothes may become a lucrative way of making some additional ISK." This will be true only in the case of limited edition items or other methods of constraints on supply, as expressed above. Everything else will suffer from market saturation and the fact that they will be tied directly to the ISK value of PLEX. Clothing will not be a very liquid asset. Why pick up a less liquid asset who's value is tied so directly to a more liquid asset. |
Valasaria
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:06:00 -
[306]
I know that MT is here to stay. That is fine. I know that CCP is proud of their virtual clothing. You can tell that by how enormously over priced the items are. The question I have though is directed to CCP Basement Ben and the fashion designers on the team developing these items.
Are any of the clothes actually going to be cool, original, and fashionable?
For example the monocle looks like an eyepiece from a Space Marine and/or Imperial Guardsman in the Warhammer 40,000 universe. Some of the jackets and shirts for the male characters look like they were also taken from the Imperial Guard and/or the uniforms of the original Star Trek movies like Wrath of Khan. The newest female jacket and pant looks like you stole the style from a Star Wars female Jedi. The newest goggles are Chronicle of riddick goggles. Anyway just curious if you ever planning on putting out anything that has sex appeal, not just department store quality goods. Just because you say they are Japanese boutique worthy doesn't mean they are.
P.S. CCP Zinfandel if it isn't about the money, then why are the items destroyable and still in a 30-80 dollar price range. I though after this last fiasco the Devs of CCP where going to try and stop lying and talking to us like we are to stupid to see what this is about. The fact of the matter is more effort is being put forward to a system that will bring extra cash, than toward fixing the **** Incarna broke. I heard you loud and clear it was more important for CCP to introduce the NeX than it was for CCP to finish every raceÆs CQ. Also heard you loud and clear that EVE and it players are the Beta Test Group for systems and mechanics that will be in CCP's other games. I get it CCP needs to practice and polish the MT mechanic and system before they put it into DUST 514 and World of Darkness.
|
E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.08 20:07:00 -
[307]
Happy as long it remains vanity only...
also more player created stuff. |
Kuhn Arashi
Caldari Wrecking Shots
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:10:00 -
[308]
As long as every time someone leaves station with something fancy, It shows up on their picture.
That way I know exactly who I'm gonna hold ransom
All I see is the nest best thing to visible pirate implants. now I will Know who has something worth paying ransom for not losing
|
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:13:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi As long as every time someone leaves station with something fancy, It shows up on their picture.
That way I know exactly who I'm gonna hold ransom
All I see is the nest best thing to visible pirate implants. now I will Know who has something worth paying ransom for not losing
Only way they go poof is if they are transporting them in the ships hold..... The only thing you get is the satisfaction of killing an idiot in $1000 pants. |
Kuhn Arashi
Caldari Wrecking Shots
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:15:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi As long as every time someone leaves station with something fancy, It shows up on their picture.
That way I know exactly who I'm gonna hold ransom
All I see is the nest best thing to visible pirate implants. now I will Know who has something worth paying ransom for not losing
Only way they go poof is if they are transporting them in the ships hold..... The only thing you get is the satisfaction of killing an idiot in $1000 pants.
If you get podded everything on you and in your head goes poof. Even if they dont. just Seeing a billion isk monocle will make it kind of hard to not know they can't pay a ransom. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.08 20:15:00 -
[311]
So now they have officially a "pricing strategy" and it turns to be as insane as it looked, as it doesn't haves a target nor a market.
See, I'm OK to spend a plex to dress one of my girls. But alas, they call that "low end". Yep, of course. Join EVE, the game where you may be able to dress up your toon with a T-shirt after playing for, like, 6 months, and only for the price of a T1 BS. Very encouraging, isn't it?
Also, I can't figure who said that players who own billions will give a damm of Incarna, let alone the NEx.
So what's the target? Where is the market for NEx?
As a last note, I am worried by how they admit that actually there is no reason as to why something is "high" middle" or "low" tier... |
AveryFaneActual
Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:19:00 -
[312]
THREADNAUGHT |
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:20:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai So now they have officially a "pricing strategy" and it turns to be as insane as it looked, as it doesn't haves a target nor a market.
See, I'm OK to spend a plex to dress one of my girls. But alas, they call that "low end". Yep, of course. Join EVE, the game where you may be able to dress up your toon with a T-shirt after playing for, like, 6 months, and only for the price of a T1 BS. Very encouraging, isn't it?
Also, I can't figure who said that players who own billions will give a damm of Incarna, let alone the NEx.
So what's the target? Where is the market for NEx?
As a last note, I am worried by how they admit that actually there is no reason as to why something is "high" middle" or "low" tier...
The target market for NeX is the one fabricated by metrics analysis, and by those who will say anything and sink to an abyss without an end to pander, lie, and outright cheat to attempt to take blood from stone. |
RAW23
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:21:00 -
[314]
Edited by: RAW23 on 08/07/2011 20:24:29 Edited by: RAW23 on 08/07/2011 20:22:02
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces.
Awww, look. He thinks they are real clothes and he is a real fashion mogul. Isn't that sweet?
Quote:
And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.
Cool - and until that time we'll carry on paying for the development of this stuff WITH OUR SUBSCRIPTIONS!
Edit - And just in case this hasn't been mentioned yet, I am literally embarassed to be associated with a game in which people will pay these amounts for very poorly made generic crap (the monocle is a truly terrible piece of art that looks like it was attached in Paint). There was always something a bit cool in describing to friends the scale and scope of eve by telling them how much real money a Titan was worth. Telling them how much real money a pair of boots is worth, on the other hand, has quite the opposite effect. |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:22:00 -
[315]
wait, what do you mean these items are "indestructable" i want to take these goods from the wreak of the guy who just left Jita IV-IV after paying stupid sums of ISK or ú for this crap. |
Titus Phook
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:27:00 -
[316]
Edited by: Titus Phook on 08/07/2011 20:34:59 The tier pricing strategy is insane, CCP are trying to attract a new generation of players with the promise of walking in stations and instantly ripping them off for the cost of 1 month game time if they want their avatar to have nice stuff?
If capsuleer clothing is that expensive, I'm happy dressing my characters in the same clothing worn by the mudbound planet dwellers that supposedly exist.
A few $/ú/Ç is an impulse buy, 15-20 is not. That kind of sum is for spending on game time and real life stuff, especially considering the financial state of most countries after the recent bank failscades. Hell a low tier outfit is nearly half a tank of petrol for me (little car, little fuel tank).
I won't spend those kind of figures on real life clothes let alone a bunch of pixels for use in a game that is primarily about spaceships, and inflicting violence on said spaceships.
Non destructable items is also taking the urine somewhat. If I blow someones pod up they lose their clone and their implants, surely their clothes and their "trollocle" would also be destroyed. Blowing up suggests fire, violent dismemberment and sudden freezing, if the clothes survive that.. I want my pod made from same materials the clothes are made from |
I'thari
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:29:00 -
[317]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."
I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days.
How about not having "high heels" as something mandatory for a change?
Also, you pricing is still ridiculous... try harder. Look at what other game companies are asking for such stuff and keep in mind that they (for the most part) are NOT asking subscription on top of it. If you going to copy from others, at least think why it is priced so, not show people that you desperately need money instead. |
I'thari
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:38:00 -
[318]
Originally by: ITTigerClawIK wait, what do you mean these items are "indestructable" i want to take these goods from the wreak of the guy who just left Jita IV-IV after paying stupid sums of ISK or ú for this crap.
Well, accordng to lore, you don't wear clothes in POD so it makes sense... clothing that costs more than fited capital ship does not ($5 billion japanise designer jeanse anyone?).
Perfect descision (in terms of "immersion", at least) would be to separate incarna currency from isk completely, but it's CCP we talking about.... |
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:42:00 -
[319]
Originally by: E man Industries
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
I hope this happens. same for CQ decor and furnature...also want by dang striper pole w/ stripper for the corp lounge.
"I need a loan for some furniture."
Well, here at 1st Local Bank, we believe in helping our customers! Now, is this a homeowners loan for your house on 85 Elm street, Mr. Smith?
"It's for a video game. Set in space. I want to make my space apartment prettier."
. . . |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:46:00 -
[320]
I just couldn't resist...I broke down and bought myself some spiffy flight goggles (I now wear my sun-goggles at night). I wanted to new commando pants, but there just aren't any boots available that look good with them, free or paid (the new boots added today look nice, but they need to be in black not olive/tan). I'll wait on the pants until I can find a nice pair of boots and a killer shirt to go with them (though I do fancy one of the military shirts currently available). |
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Sylthi
Minmatar Coreward Pan-Galactic Holy Empire of The Unshaven
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Posted - 2011.07.08 20:49:00 -
[321]
WAAAAAY too much money for WAAAAAY too little effort CCP.
You actually have fashion designers working on this crap? They must be the "low end" fashion designers you could get on the cheap, just like your "low end" coders and QA people that let stuff get broken with EVERY patch.
You need to try much, MUCH, harder if you expect me to pay EXTRA for something that has NO effect in game.
Sell it to the Peaco_cks if you like. Maybe they will buy it.
Oh, and btw, since this stuff is EXTRA, as in: On TOP of what you already charge; when are the REST of your paying customers actually going to see some new content?!? Or, are we all just PAYING a base fee now for the PRIVILEGE of accessing your STORE where you will then charge us MORE?!?
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Faith Clothos
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Posted - 2011.07.08 20:54:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Faith Clothos on 08/07/2011 20:56:42 Feedback:
Your prices are ridiculous and Zirfindel should be allowed to find new opportunities somewhere else.
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Zakurai
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:55:00 -
[323]
I'm starting to think this is prime time to freeze my account for a year and let all this bull**** play out. This NeX BS is really killing the core fundamentals of a game I would have recommended to anyone in a heartbeat. The reason CCP was successful, IMO, is that your subscription paid for the content that was realized. I'm guessing all of the clothes available now are the only ones we can access for free (without buying from NeX) I'm going on a wild guess here, but with all this faulty logic everywhere you're going to use the NeX as the metric for what kind of clothes people want, and once everyone doesn't want any, you have validated any excuse to fix this currently broken mechanic of this expansion. I would not be surprised if we have to spend aurum for accessing the next expansion; after all, who gives a **** what we think, right? |
Abaidaa
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:58:00 -
[324]
Edited by: Abaidaa on 08/07/2011 20:59:16 I have to say I like some styles of the Nex, but probaly won't buy any of it, as it has no use (which is good!)
But maybe you could offer a playstation3 in the Nex?! So I could attach it to the big screens in my cq and play Dust514 on it. |
Solomunio Kzenig
Amarr Indicium Technologies Hephaestus Forge Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 20:59:00 -
[325]
Originally by: Jada Maroo Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 10:59:44
So basically we've seen the end of free character creator updates, minus the new tattoos when they get them working.
No more new clothes, no more near hairstyles, no more jewelry... unless you pay through the butt for them.
Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?
Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion.
^^This pretty much, I do remember that ÇÇP originally said that clothes would be player made, guess that gets in the way of all that juicy MT $$ though. |
Sri Nova
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:05:00 -
[326]
I'm disappointed that player crafting does not appear to be apart of this new system. |
Faith Clothos
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:06:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Solomunio Kzenig
Originally by: Jada Maroo Edited by: Jada Maroo on 08/07/2011 10:59:44
So basically we've seen the end of free character creator updates, minus the new tattoos when they get them working.
No more new clothes, no more near hairstyles, no more jewelry... unless you pay through the butt for them.
Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?
Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion.
^^This pretty much, I do remember that ÇÇP originally said that clothes would be player made, guess that gets in the way of all that juicy MT $$ though.
I don't think fun is his objective. |
Ruffio Sepico
Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:09:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Sri Nova I'm disappointed that player crafting does not appear to be apart of this new system.
Well if you read back and see one of the dev comments, its hinted towards that is what they would like to see down the line. |
Sader Rykane
Amarr The Dark Space Initiative Revival Of The Talocan Empire
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:17:00 -
[329]
Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX, depending on individual elements.
You guys absoloutly FAIL to understand the concept of micro transactions.
Mid tier should NOT be 3-4 plex it should be at most 1
Lower tier should cost maybe HALF a plex while the EXPENSIVE **** should be 3-5.
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Sri Nova
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:23:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Sri Nova I'm disappointed that player crafting does not appear to be apart of this new system.
Well if you read back and see one of the dev comments, its hinted towards that is what they would like to see down the line.
wow some how scrolled right by that .. thanks for pointing out . |
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Pytria Le'Danness
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:25:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Sader Rykane Mid-tier outfits will be priced such that an outfit will total approximately 3-4 PLEX, depending on individual elements.
You guys absoloutly FAIL to understand the concept of micro transactions.
Mid tier should NOT be 3-4 plex it should be at most 1
Lower tier should cost maybe HALF a plex while the EXPENSIVE **** should be 3-5.
Hell, even half a PLEX is too much. I just bought BioShock off a bargain bin for 5Ç, why should I pay around Ç7.5 for some pixels no one but me can see?
Sorry ÇÇP if I don't join the happily dancing crowd that celebrates being ripped off. I would have gladly spent some money on pixels, but these prices - I rather buy myself another Bhaalgorn or Vindi for that. |
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:26:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Sader Rykane You guys absoloutly FAIL to understand the concept of micro transactions.
the whole community agree on that, the issue that the whole company does not agree on that... or simply don't care... |
Darth Sith
Genbuku. Nulli Secunda
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:30:00 -
[333]
I would like a purple strap on, fishnet stockings and a corset. And they should not be restricted to male / female characters too ;)
What I do in my CQ is my own business.
Speaking which .. any plans to release pets for the CQ? Specifically barn-yard animals ?
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Pytria Le'Danness
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:31:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?
Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion.
This too. I was really excited about Incarna, but since it got turned into a cheap vehicle whoring NEx garbage I'd rather see the art people work on redesigning space ships. At least I will not get ripped off by hull changes - at least not until a marketing goon at ÇÇP realizes they could sell the new hulls for 98765432 aurum.
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Sethose Olderon
Gryphon Chancellery Gryphon League
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:34:00 -
[335]
CCP, maybe you should read the forums again. These prices are still too high. |
Karthwritte
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:38:00 -
[336]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
So that means: "Hey, this is not MY idea, Marketing wanna try it, some high ups wanna see data, this could not be forever. ITS NOT GOLD AMMO, DONT PANIC"
I believe somebody really thinks EVE its REAL. Thats why they sell virtual clothes at real clothes price. |
Faith Clothos
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:44:00 -
[337]
I see what's going on, in between lines of ****e someone got convinced that you could start the first SPACE fashion house.
There is still someone in CCP convinced that people will see this garbage and go "OMG he is wearing the latest in the Vallou collection!", when in reality people go more: Check it out, that ******s wearing $80 worth of virtual junk.
I know your trailers are saying EVE is real but have some soda water, a coffee, throw up in the washroom a bit maybe and they internalize this:
EVE IS NOT REAL.
EVE IS A VIDEOGAME, AND NEITHER THE BEST, NOR MORE POPULAR ONE.
YOU ARE NOT A FASHION DESIGNER (and if you were you oughta be ashamed of the garbage you are putting out).
But I think your biggest problem is that you are completely out of touch with the playerbase. Why are you selling this garbage inteast of giving us our crazy hair and fishbowls from the old char creator back?
And why are you selling it for more than real, good looking clothes cost.
And finally, how long till we see pepsi ads on the CQ tv? |
Gaia Ma'chello
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:54:00 -
[338]
CCP; you explained your pricing strategy, but not your pricing reasoning. Why is the lowest tier 1000 Aurum per item and not say 100, or 10 or 1? What was the process by which you came to these prices?
Let me tell you mine.
First I note that 1 PLEX = 3500 AURM = 350 million ISK, so 1 Aur = 100,000 ISK.
I want to know how much something is eve is worth. How do I do this? By comparing it to a real world equivalent.
Example: A real cruise missile is worth $1 million. An Eve cruise missle is 100 ISK. Therefore 1 ISK buys in eve as much as $10,000 in reality. Thus really expensive $1000 designer pants should cost 0.10 ISK, or one millionth of an Aurum.
But you sell them for 1000 Aurum, a billion times more.
What line of reasoning did you go through to get a number a billion times higher than mine?
Please do not dismiss this by saying something like "this is a game and making comparisons to reality are useless", take this head on and tell us your price reasoning. |
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 21:58:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Faith Clothos EVE IS A VIDEOGAME, AND NEITHER THE BEST, NOR MORE POPULAR ONE.
I disagree... hence why I am subscribed. To me, personally, it is the best on the market today for what I want to be spending what little free time I have enjoying :)
Originally by: Faith Clothos But I think your biggest problem is that you are completely out of touch with the playerbase. Why are you selling this garbage inteast of giving us our crazy hair and fishbowls from the old char creator back?
CCP - We pay a monthly subscription under the assumption that for our money we will get to enjoy your game. Completely agree that we would like to move forward in what we can experience (or look like), not have things taken away then charged for as they are reintroduced!
Originally by: Faith Clothos And finally, how long till we see pepsi ads on the CQ tv?
I would MUCH rather see Pepsi and Coca~Cola adds in my captains quarters than have an Aurum store. Hell, if you targeted the adds correctly - sci-fi tv shows, soft drinks, movie trailers, etc. - you could introduce Real Life advertising into the Captains Quarters and do away with your whole MT concept. Now there might be some innovation in the MMORPG market. 10six was talking about doing something like that when they were in beta oh-so-long-ago. On the other hand, if you introduce this and then remove the mute button from the tv viewer with commercials, we'll rage like there's no tomorrow ;) |
Cosmoes
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.08 22:01:00 -
[340]
kinda makes sense
still even the cheap stuff is on the high end of general MMO pricing.
One thing I would like to ask is will certain parts of our outfit be limited to specific teers?
For example say I want to buy a pair of goggles, are there goggles available for every price range or are they only limited to the higher price ranges? |
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:02:00 -
[341]
Thank you, CCP, for creating an item I do not want for the price you offer it, or a tenth of that, or at all.
So when will we get new space ship stuff? Or, you know, at least hats for our space ships to wear. And ties. And monocles. So they can be seen when I'm preening myself on Rens BTT undock. |
St'oto
Elite Predators
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Posted - 2011.07.08 22:04:00 -
[342]
Edited by: St''oto on 08/07/2011 22:05:44 Yea I'm sorry but you guys are ****ING insane. Plain and simple. Low tier items cost 1 plex? Are you serious? I don't care if this is a "trial run." Trial runs start out small and than improve. You guys are starting out with pure greed in mind. So don't even sit there and say "it's not form money, we aren't making any but we aren't even thinking about that." that's crap any you know it! Nice marketing spin but the items are doing the talking.
I know greed when I see it and you guys are a picture perfect example of it. Next thing ya know when you look up the definition of Greed in a dictionary, CCP will have their team smiling there to greet you in picture form.
If this goes through and it doesn't get improved drastically I'm done with this game. Like another individual said, if low tier CLOTHES cost more than a damn faction cruiser, there's something wrong. Horribly wrong. |
Telion Rethson
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:27:00 -
[343]
OK, the good:
The underlying concept seems sound.
The bad:
Your prices are still ridiculously high, even for the 'affordable tier' items. This is simply NOT 'microtransactions'. If you want a rough guideline, look at somewhere that currently uses microtransactions for vanity items, like Star Trek Online. There, you get 500 Atari points for ú4. A uniform, which can be used as a complete outfit, or broken up and bits from used separately, costs 240-280 Atari points. So, basically, you're getting a complete outfit for about ú2. That is the sort of price you should at least be selling your 'affordable tier' items. Instead, going by the devblog, you're planning on selling even the lowest tier items at a price of around ú18-ú20 for a complete outfit, or about 10 times that price. |
Medidranda Livoga
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:27:00 -
[344]
Edited by: Medidranda Livoga on 08/07/2011 22:29:33 This pricing strategy is such a fail it cannot be described. Both in terms of customer accessibility and income for you. This is a virtual asset and on top of it, clothes. Clothes are disposable items for most part, people buy tons of shirts, pants and shoes that they use maybe few times.
And here you are, asking for utterly preposterous amounts of real life cash or equivalent for pixels. Either you don`t want to sell much which is just stupid or you want to **** off people who might be interested but can actually count. It is frustrating to see repeated self-shooting on foot done here. At least be honest and try to make some money if you insist on starting a system like this. Or give players a toolset to start creating and few guys/gals to do simple wetting process so nothing too explicit gets introduced.
If you want to make a "fashion online" do it properly. You need vast amounts of new products every week and low prices on most of them (sure have few expensive ones if you want). And when I say low it means somewhere around 10-20 x lower what it is now. Not hard to whip up a new shirt and pant skins. |
Leil Ren'Do
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:31:00 -
[345]
I'm speechless (well not really but close).
After all the rage, now a dev here is talking about cute high heels and awesome steampunk girl fashion. I really don't understand it anymore. Are there some studies that show that spaceship nerds all secretly want to play with barbies? Is this a scheme to replace the entirety of the community with people who do care about these things?
And the pricing... How can you be serious about clothes costing as much as battleships?
This is not complicated or blurry. This is just you screwing with your current playerbase. What thought process let you to this disaster? Because I sincerly am unable to understand and empathize with your mindset. Maybe it's my lack of understanding of how the industry is evolving. Or maybe it's part of your launch strategy in Japan.
In any case please put some effort in educating us because from my reference I can only conlcude that you've gone insane. |
Crausaum
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:38:00 -
[346]
Huh, after 8 years in EVE this is what the game comes to...
$15 for re-textures of existing polygons that you can wear in an underdeveloped single player environment. And now I'm being told those are cheap.
Y'know CCP back when we started doing this exchange you'd give me content for my monthly fee and allow that new free content to reel in new players.
Now you remove the existing character creator and cut content only to try and charge me an extra fee when it comes back in.
You're not the same company I started doing business with and I don't think we can carry on our business relationship, the transaction is being altered to far into the favor of the business with little regard for the customer. |
Bantros
Noir.
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:42:00 -
[347]
Edited by: Bantros on 08/07/2011 22:44:13 Item pricing is fine, the range of prices will grow when more items are added.
Anyone seen the TF2 store? When it came out the hats and weapons were anything from ú6 to ú15 and people complained but they still sold. This happened just yesterday, that's right $1500 for a TF2 hat.
I also remember a couple of weeks after a certain update Valve flew some item contributors to their HQ and handed out cheques for like $40,000, that's a lot of sales in 2 weeks and the prices were then still quite steep.
You don't have to buy anything, but you can and you don't even have to buy with real money. I'm afraid there are many people who will pay for these items and I shall be one of them |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:44:00 -
[348]
Originally by: St'oto EDIT: Anyone who says "well you don't have to buy it." doesn't see the point of the entire thing. It's not about whether you have to buy them or not. It's about the fact that right out of the gate the damn things are extremely overpriced and they act like it's a good thing. Which shows that CCP have given the reigns over to the suits and don't give a crap about their customers. PURE GREED.
Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.
|
Telion Rethson
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:57:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.
As I understand it, 'microtransaction items' are exactly what they're supposed to be, at least, at the lowest tier, but, going by the devblog, even these items are going to be too expensive to accurately be called microtransactions. |
Myshella Drake
Caldari Omega Exploration And Reclaimation
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 22:57:00 -
[350]
This is such bull****. I was very much in support of walking in stations ever since it was first discussed. Now I feel like its just turned into a way to milk players on top of their sub while delivering less real content.
The new character creator is a very powerful tool but a lot of the content from the old one has been stripped out for more generic looking customizations. Now you will offer us back extra content at a (ridiculous) price. When will more non-NeX customizations be added? if ever.
What will come next with Walking in stations? Im looking forward to customizing my captians quarters. How much Aurum or ISK will that cost me? 3 bil for new lighing, 5 bil for a sweet leather couch? When we FINALLY get to run our own establishments Im guessing there will outrageously priced customization content there aswell. These are all things that can be classed as 'vanity'.
Personally i would be will to shell out no more than 150 mil on fully customizing my character. And i like to play dress up (sadly yes ). At your current prices i could maybe buy 1 piece of clothing from the lowest of low tiers. Why bother. Your whole deluxe item scheme is quite amusing. Just shows how out of touch with your players values you really are.
Get back to the spaceships. At least you kind of knew what you were doing.
|
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:03:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Crausaum Huh, after 8 years in EVE this is what the game comes to...
$15 for re-textures of existing polygons that you can wear in an underdeveloped single player environment. And now I'm being told those are cheap.
Y'know CCP back when we started doing this exchange you'd give me content for my monthly fee and allow that new free content to reel in new players.
Now you remove the existing character creator and cut content only to try and charge me an extra fee when it comes back in.
You're not the same company I started doing business with and I don't think we can carry on our business relationship, the transaction is being altered too far into the favor of the business with little regard for the customer.
QFT (are you sure you're in TEST?) I'd say NO regard for the customer but otherwise perfect. |
St'oto
Elite Predators
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:11:00 -
[352]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We don't yet have targets for how many pieces are designed for which tier. Some of that is purely artistic freedom for the artists who design the pieces. Also, this is because we can't currently create new items as quickly as we'd like.
We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces. And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.
But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more.
I'm sorry but I'll believe that old guy who was talking about the rapture coming soon well before I believe "this is just about learning." This is and always will be "just about the money." That's it. You can dance around this subject all you want, but actions speak louder than words, and in this case those actions are so loud it's almost as if someone is putting a loudspeaker in my ear and saying "WE WANT YOUR MONEY!!!!!" |
Andares Sol
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:13:00 -
[353]
Well, once the macro transactions are getting micro, i might reconsider the idea.
Until that point you will see me in my grubby yellowing underpants in the to-be-programmed "Nipples & Bacon"-Pub standing at the bar and suffer my discontent. And as the player base is mostly male, all the nice female alts in underwear will also help with the immersion.
Still don't understand why AUR was necessary at all. (Which idiot came up with that name btw.? "My treasure... Muahaha!" ?!) Instead just breaking down the 30day PLEX into a 30 * dayPLEX would have done the trick. Then you could swap a few dayPlex with a "I barbie you!" T-Shirt. Same Logic as for the loyalty store, where you can convert regular items in faction items. So instead of a separate wallet it's a comodity which can be bought, sold, shipped, lost, blown up e.t.c. You could play / mine / mission a few days. Get a few dayPlex and treat yourself with a nice Neon-Bumper-Sticker on your ship saying "I survived Jita Monoclegate!"... e.t.c.
Ah well, what do i know... Let's see how the EVE MT Betatesting turns outs in few months.
So long, Andares Sol
P.S.: Is it just me who is "not playing the game correctly", but Wormholes, T3 Ships and Incursion were not really for me? Maybe i have to pay... ehm play another 5 years until i have the skills.
|
Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:16:00 -
[354]
Permit me a brief story:
The original AkJon, AkJonottawarat, was a fierce Uruk Warleader on the LOTRO server, Vilya. He was nerfed all to hell by Turbine and then they went F2P P2W and I lost all interest in that game and started playing EVE.
As you level your PVP character in LOTRO, you get progressively sexier skins that you can buy relatively cheaply for in-game PVP mission XP (Destiny points.) AkJon was one of the highest level warleaders on the server with more destiny points than I knew what to do with, but I never bought the skins. I was happy in my rank 0 skin. I don't PVP to play Barbie, I PVP for the adrenaline rush, either from the joy of victory or the agony of defeat (and I've tasted my share of both.)
tl;dr CCP: You have a very successful niche game appealing to people who want a harsh but fair sandbox game with awesome, balanced PVP, as little lag as possible, a great market system, no bots. Restore your customers' faith in the EVE we signed up for or prepare to enjoy a wonderful career in fishing/aluminum smelting.
|
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:21:00 -
[355]
Edited by: Vandrion on 08/07/2011 23:25:28
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: Kuhn Arashi As long as every time someone leaves station with something fancy, It shows up on their picture.
That way I know exactly who I'm gonna hold ransom
All I see is the nest best thing to visible pirate implants. now I will Know who has something worth paying ransom for not losing
Only way they go poof is if they are transporting them in the ships hold..... The only thing you get is the satisfaction of killing an idiot in $1000 pants.
If you get podded everything on you and in your head goes poof. Even if they dont. just Seeing a billion isk monocle will make it kind of hard to not know they can't pay a ransom.
Here you go:
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Originally by: Bienator II The main question here is: will i be able to take your monocle if i pod you? :)
No, clothing is destroyed when you get podded, but if you had a stack on monocle's in your cargo hold they will drop like normal.
From this thread here: Monacles or Death
Pod the fools! |
Ms Michigan
Gallente Aviation Professionals for EVE Fusion Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:26:00 -
[356]
Dang - in late on this one...page 12
CCP Zinfandel -
I have never seen my question answered but it was delved into back in the day when NEX was first announced. I was wondering if you can answer the following... For the right price...
Will it (is it currently even) possible to have items commissioned by your great artist team?
Some examples: Custom ship decals? (I have a great WW2 nose art I want on my Machariel) Custom character skins? (I want my character to look like Albert Einstein say - can your guys use Incarna and your skills to accomplish that better?) Custom clothes requests? (That Speedo I have been dying to wear! :)
I saw you answered someone about Users making content - how about even easier - paying in Aurum to get the stuff done by your artists?
How cool? |
St'oto
Elite Predators
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:32:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Ketaros Thunderclap The whole point is simple, and resumes to a marvelous simple move: - Make AUR be only bought with real money, without ANY connection with ISK.
Makes little sense. They would need to invent the wheel again, especially the trouble with accounting, billing etc. is way too high. Actually nothing useful can be gained by introducing a second, completely independent currency into EVE. Instead you have only PLEX and fractions of PLEX called Aur. They should have called it Plexicent instead of Aur though. The integration of Aur into EVE (through PLEX) is a great move and a very good thing.
Quote: I know PLEX was a big business mistake you guys did, dont try to correct a mistake doing another. CCP, do the math, separate real money from ISK, ASAP. I know MANY will hate me for saying this...
PLEX was the second best thing CCP ever did, the best one was GTC.
Quote: In the last 4 years I have been a Market Player on EVE, and I know and CCP know that like me there are few other players more kidding with 3 digits billions ISK accounts, that we could be the one interested by this tyer/clothing thing, make profit or even make our avatar look cool, but I can tell right away: we are not. I know for fact thats not a game thing being placed for those like me who play EVE like a Market Tycoon.
They aren't aiming for you. They are trying to attract *shock* new players! A different kind of player, those that like dress up etc. Too difficult to understand that? Looks like.
So when are they going to *shock* fix the damn game for the players that exist within it already? Don't belittle people with the constant new player initiative. I don't care about new players if said new players and their content affect my damn experience considering I've invested 7+ years into this game already.
I understand CCP want new players. But it seems they really don't give two ****s about old players at all. Haven't for quite some time. So basically if your 1+ month old, your defacto worthless to them. They want the newbie every time. Which is absolute BS. |
Zombatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.08 23:50:00 -
[358]
How can CCP fail at its own game?! Guess they've stopped playing it a long time ago. |
St'oto
Elite Predators
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:01:00 -
[359]
Edited by: St''oto on 09/07/2011 00:10:09
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: St'oto EDIT: Anyone who says "well you don't have to buy it." doesn't see the point of the entire thing. It's not about whether you have to buy them or not. It's about the fact that right out of the gate the damn things are extremely overpriced and they act like it's a good thing. Which shows that CCP have given the reigns over to the suits and don't give a crap about their customers. PURE GREED.
Pure greed as opposed to the players who demand to be able to afford vanity items regardless of how little they're willing to spend on them? PURE SENSE OF ENTITLEMENT! You don't see the point of the entire thing - these are vanity items. They are made to appeal to your sense of vanity. They're not intended to be micro transaction items to dress your space barbies.
It seems you didn't here about the fact that the NeX store is CCP's version of "microtransactions." If your a girl and wanna spend crap loads of money on useless stuff, by all means go for it. But don't patronize me for calling it like I see it. Also damn right I feel I'm entitled! This isn't a free game. Last time I checked I put $30 a month into CCP's bank account, so yes I feel entitled to an enjoyable experience instead of a buggy experience in favor of barbie and ken in space so some girls and a select few boys can gossip about how sexy joe shmoe or lisa is.
So yes I feel entitled to a functional game that I'm paying for. I'll own up to that 1,000 times over. If this game was free than I would promptly shut up. But it isn't is it? No it sure isn't. So I expect my $30 to go towards bug fixing, and meaningful new expansions along with server up keep instead of a virtual fashion model show in space. Likewise I don't expect said $30 to go towards alpha, or beta testing twilight 2.0 or Sony FPS X1,000 either. Last time I checked I didn't sign a EULA or any amount of paper work that went towards the effect of I was a beta tester, that was paying to be a beta tester, instead of being paid. |
Leon Razor
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:16:00 -
[360]
I'm still unclear as to what the final implementation was with regard to NeX item destruction. I get that NeX items in your hanger appear when you re-customize, and NeX items don't clone jump with you. But if you are podded, say with a monocle, is that monocle destroyed? Also, are my other assumptions wrong? |
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Ephemeral Waves
Silver Snake Enterprise
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:18:00 -
[361]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Any questions?
When do we get the conventional - and actually functional - hanger view back? |
Kusanagi Kasuga
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:21:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Kusanagi Kasuga on 09/07/2011 00:31:14 Edited by: Kusanagi Kasuga on 09/07/2011 00:23:18
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
Any questions?
When do we get the conventional - and actually functional - hanger view back?
This.
Also - make the items destroyable and with a low-chance drop rate (5-10%) Reduce the price/provide multiple items if you think it necessary to balance.
Quote:
losing them may cause reduced emotional attachment to Eve Online.
EVE does not produce emotional attachment through permanence - it produces emotional attachment through the effort required in achieving something, and provides emotional feedback by the fragility of those achievements. In EVE, when you screw up, you suffer - as a result, you strive to be better.
This invulnerable stuff is not EVE. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 00:39:00 -
[363]
CCP clearly doesn't understand what micro-transactions are, and why they work.
CCP seems have have its mind set on going with macro-transactions, which are completely different. The items offered have to be really spectacular even at the lowest tier to even be considered at those prices. |
Shaera Taam
Minmatar Minmatar Death Squad Broken Chains Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 01:07:00 -
[364]
yeah, color me silly for thinking that paying 3-4 plex for virtual clothes is too much, nevermind how much isk i have...
o well, if i dont like it, i dont have to buy it, right? |
Vaughn Baychimo
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 01:13:00 -
[365]
I just bought a few monocles.
You see me rollin' - you be hatin' |
Teranul
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 01:39:00 -
[366]
Edited by: Teranul on 09/07/2011 01:42:21 I just have to ask -
What is the point of having these items tradeable on the open market if very few of them are cheaper than the cost of a single plex?
As long as such items cost more than a plex, nobody's going to bother buying them direct from other players as they can get around the markup simply by buying the plex and converting it themselves. And nobody's going to sell clothing for less than it cost to buy them, I mean, seriously, EVE's economy is the very opposite of a charity, y'know.
So, in other words, the lack of granularity makes trading clothing utterly pointless except in the most extremely cheap cases. I think this is quite, quite wrong. I also think you seem to not understand what the "micro" in "micro transaction" actually means...
By the way, why is it that the tank tops in that little clothing preview show breasts smaller than the current minimum size? Hmmm? Are you guys going to revert it back to the old minimum size? Because I would greatly appreciate that...
Edit: Oh, and how the hell do you justify paying 1.2 billion ISK for a set of clothing? Seriously, that's a load of nonsense. There's absolutely no way I can maintain my immersion with prices like that. |
MeBiatch
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:14:00 -
[367]
Edited by: MeBiatch on 09/07/2011 02:14:55
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
this made me oh so very happy... any idea on an eta for it? |
Mina Sebiestar
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 02:29:00 -
[368]
WTS/WTT small fleet of 10-15 republic fleet tempest's for pair of MEGA ULTRA SOCKS OF AWESOME so i can win this game...
Thank you CCP for making this game so immerse and not MT piece of donkey crap. |
Vandrion
Gallente The Collective B O R G
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 03:29:00 -
[369]
Originally by: MeBiatch Edited by: MeBiatch on 09/07/2011 02:14:55
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
this made me oh so very happy... any idea on an eta for it?
Don't be happy... If they roll it out bpc for these things at some point it just means that they will introduce ship/mod bpc that you can only get through the money store....... Imagine when they roll out new T3 ships---welp folks sorry but you can only get the component bpc with Aurum.. You liked being able to buy clothes bpc so we know you will love buying new ship bpcs here too! |
Nathan Omarr
Amarr Prototype Securities
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 03:37:00 -
[370]
Is it just me or is clothing now just as expensive as, say, a battleship in eve now? |
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XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 03:58:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Vandrion
Originally by: MeBiatch Edited by: MeBiatch on 09/07/2011 02:14:55
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel It takes a lot more work to be able to make a system where the players can make the goods. We will do it. We want that very much. But it's going to take time. All of these goods are going to be a lot more fun if they are being made by players.
this made me oh so very happy... any idea on an eta for it?
Don't be happy... If they roll it out bpc for these things at some point it just means that they will introduce ship/mod bpc that you can only get through the money store....... Imagine when they roll out new T3 ships---welp folks sorry but you can only get the component bpc with Aurum.. You liked being able to buy clothes bpc so we know you will love buying new ship bpcs here too!
How do you think the ships that won the contest are going to roll out? |
Lenore Leelu
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:04:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Dsnakes
Originally by: AnzacPaul Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Where is the logic in this?
Just wait for them to think about make you pay for breast implants and enjoy a single boob for the price of a MS :P
But wait! They have already given us a free unwanted boob job! Will they charge us to give us back our A cups? (and yes small boobs are pretty mkay!) |
Tutskii
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:04:00 -
[373]
I noticed that there was no answer to the feedback after the first page or so.
What gives? I see plenty of quality questions! |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:12:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Sri Nova I'm disappointed that player crafting does not appear to be apart of this new system.
Seriously... There was some serious industry potential here. At least a minigame like system like PI.
Well as long as shops in stations aren't rented with Aurum/RL $$ I'll be satisfied. I'm getting a sinking feeling that potential gameplay features (like renting out stores, buying and selling investment properties, ect) might just get micro-transactions shoehorned into them.
Back on topic, IMO the prices are about 2x too high. |
Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:41:00 -
[375]
Seriously
F*ck you guys. F*ck you for making them indestructible. F*ck anybody who made it possible for them to be indestructible.
That doesn't belong in EVE. |
Livinia Koi
Wrecking Shots
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 04:57:00 -
[376]
These prices are ridiculous. The low-tier is 1 PLEX? What the f*** are you thinking? They're called MICRO-transactions. I could see myself dropping one or two dollars on something cool, but now I know I will never spend any money in the NeX store.
God you guys are stupid. |
Myshella Drake
Caldari Omega Exploration And Reclaimation
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:06:00 -
[377]
Originally by: mechtech
Well as long as shops in stations aren't rented with Aurum/RL $$ I'll be satisfied. I'm getting a sinking feeling that potential gameplay features (like renting out stores, buying and selling investment properties, ect) might just get micro-transactions shoehorned into them.
Im pretty sure they will integrate Aurum into owning our own establishments. Maybe not in the base rent but definitely for customizing them in any meaningful way. Want some better furniture or a new intractable npc, youll be paying Aurum for it or a ludicrous amount of isk. CCPs current stance makes this pretty much a given. |
Tarinara
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:35:00 -
[378]
Originally by: Written Word Edited by: Written Word on 09/07/2011 04:59:19 Seriously
F*ck you guys. F*ck you for making them indestructible. F*ck anybody who made it possible for them to be indestructible.
Being indestructibility doesn't belong in EVE. Remember risk/reward, don't undock what you can't afford to lose?
It might have something to do with the risk/reward of CCP having customers who spend real world money charging that purchase back on their credit card. Too many charge backs and CCP runs the risk of loosing their merchant account.
Almost any MMO which has a cash shop that sells items ( with the exception of consumables such as ammo, etc. ) does so in a manner were the items aren't destroyed by other players or are lootable/stealable. No matter how many layers of dollars to PLEX to Aurum CCP goes through - there still may be real world consequences to a merchant when customers money somehow goes *poof* in a video or computer game.
I've never read anything definitive on the subject, but my guess would be a credit card company siding with the consumer on the issue. Especially with the hundreds of dollars CCP is expecting us to pay for their 'designer japanese jeans'... |
Pytria Le'Danness
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:43:00 -
[379]
Originally by: Shaera Taam o well, if i dont like it, i dont have to buy it, right?
However even if you don't buy the stuff ÇÇP will assign designers and coders to implement more stuff, taking them away from more interesting things, like, building spaceships for a spaceship game. That's why I hope the NEx store fails and the assets allocated to making $1000 jeans return to the stuff I pay the m for with my subscription. |
Morgan Polaris
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 05:58:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: mechtech
Well as long as shops in stations aren't rented with Aurum/RL $$ I'll be satisfied. I'm getting a sinking feeling that potential gameplay features (like renting out stores, buying and selling investment properties, ect) might just get micro-transactions shoehorned into them.
Im pretty sure they will integrate Aurum into owning our own establishments. Maybe not in the base rent but definitely for customizing them in any meaningful way. Want some better furniture or a new intractable npc, youll be paying Aurum for it or a ludicrous amount of isk. CCPs current stance makes this pretty much a given.
They will, at which point MT are giving you an in-game advantage. CCP is hoping that if it's not in the space-game, people won't notice. |
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 07:24:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
Originally by: Jada Maroo
Congratulations, CCP, you managed to make a feature I was enthusiastic about, Incarna, into something I wish would just go away. Zin, you're just clueless about how to make a game enjoyable, you know that?
Seriously, your participation in it has just sucked the fun right out of this whole expansion.
This too. I was really excited about Incarna, but since it got turned into a cheap vehicle whoring NEx garbage I'd rather see the art people work on redesigning space ships. At least I will not get ripped off by hull changes - at least not until a marketing goon at ÇÇP realizes they could sell the new hulls for 98765432 aurum.
Yep, +1 to that feeling.
Yesterday I read the blog, logged in, looked at the NEx for the "new stuff", couldn't find any "new stuff" (), then carefully browsed the items and considered seriously how much would take to dress my main... and then that was it, the last ember of hope was cold.
CCP already have made up their mind, and once the NEx turns a failure, there will be so many people to reimburse of their Aurums if prices change that there will be no turning back. NEx, alas, has managed to be born dead as a broken feature (and yet another one...).
That on top of Incarna becoming some useless booster dealing crap pretty much kills my interest in it and makes me wonder:
"What is CCP going to do for me so I keep paying to play their game?"
"Nothing", is my guess. And that's a shame. |
Coco Caine
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 08:04:00 -
[382]
Even with a full clothing set for 1 PLEX the prices in the NEX are very much out of sync with other in-game items. The mechanism 'PLEX for AUR' totally lacks a consistent lore background. Also, where's the 20 ISK stone-washed jeans made by slave kids in Shuria?
Also I can only repeat that I want to play Eve, means 'earn' items through in-game efforts. I'm affluent enough in RL to buy any character/ship combination through PLEX for ISK if I wished so, but I'm not doing this, because it would shortcut the game experience and ultimately render the items worthless to me.
For me it's about experiencing a science fiction story book. Now you added a phone number to the cover 'Call now and dress your main character with fancy clothes. Only 1$ per minute'. No.
Link the NEX to game lore/experiences or, better, remove it.
Enter e.g. a 'Federal Navy Admiral Patent' into a LP store, which unlocks a 'Federal Navy Admiral Uniform' and a 'Title Certificate' in the NEX so that you can parade around with title and uniform after some decent grind, then at least the shop would be linked to some kind of in-game experience. And people would have new causes to grind missions. |
Coco Caine
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 08:19:00 -
[383]
Mid august my subscription runs out, better come up with some seriously enticing plans about new and improved game features beyond the 'let's test WoD on the Eve community' shti.
Your pricing strategy for NEX is fail because NEX is fail. |
DoctorMolotov
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 08:20:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Coco Caine
Enter e.g. a 'Federal Navy Admiral Patent' into a LP store, which unlocks a 'Federal Navy Admiral Uniform' and a 'Title Certificate' in the NEX so that you can parade around with title and uniform after some decent grind, then at least the shop would be linked to some kind of in-game experience. And people would have new causes to grind missions.
This.
Also, can we just start calling them "macrotransactions" since is faaar from micro... |
Abdiel Kavash
Caldari Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 09:15:00 -
[385]
I really only see this interesting for the people who roll in bilions of ISK, never undock and never leave highsec (not that there's anthing inherently wrong with that). Industrialists, hardcore mission runners, market gurus. As a nullsec soldier or a lowsec pirate, I have a choice between several replaceable ships, or a pair of cheap pants. I think it's obvious where I will spend my money (ISK, AUR, PLEX, $, Ç,...).
CCP seems to aim this expansion at least partially at new players - well, I don't see how this will benefit new players in any way. Might even deter them - imagine someone just starting their level 2 missions earning an astonishing 250,000 ISK per job when they see that the cheapest shirt costs few hundred times more.
Aside from that,
Quote: An affordable tier outfit can be purchased and assembled for roughly the value of one PLEX in total - slightly cheaper if you are fortunate enough to time your purchase well.
[...]
An exceptional tier is rumored to exist that represents a very special and rare investment for the wealthiest members of the EVE community.
Is this implying that the AUR price of the goods will fluctuate over time? |
Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 09:34:00 -
[386]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 09/07/2011 09:37:20 Hey CCP.
I know I have been a negative critic, but now I am a believer. I do buy the whole "extravagant clothing" concept except you should perhaps stop signal confusion and call it Virtual Goods Sales instead of Micro-Transactions.
Personally I am at a stage where I have already bought all the battleships, freighters, strategic cruisers and whatnot that I could ever need. As a cautious man I rarely lose a ship so buying more are not a motivator for acquiring ISK. These cloth items might step in and be just that.
Finally, let me say; I have taken a closer look with an open mind on the cloth designs in the NeX store, and, truthfully, that are some damn nice threads. I could easily be persuaded to buy some of those in a real world store either for my self or my girlfriend if I had a choice. And the best part is that I could wear them without looking too out of place. Perhaps you could sell some of them in the EVE store? I am getting the feeling your are using people with some knowledge on real cloth design and you are, in effect, giving these people an option to get their designs out to the world, just not the real one.
EDIT: I forgot my critical issue; we need player made items beside the PLEX involved in NeX store purchases. Right now there are very few market dynamics involved which is a big shame. |
Miraqu
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 10:28:00 -
[387]
Will there be a quick way just to change clothes/accessories or do we always have to recustomize?
e.g. :
You undock for PvP, so just put on sth suitable to killing others and leave the nice ones at home.
Preferably 2 clicks in the character menu. |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 11:21:00 -
[388]
One thing I'd like to see in the NeX store is a "try before you buy" feature that allows us to see what we look like in certain rags before actually purchasing them. A virtual dressing room? What say ye CCP? |
Roh Voleto
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:08:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Roh Voleto on 09/07/2011 12:09:58 Notice how there is no outrage at all? Despite the prices still being unrealistic, if not to say insane. I guess nobody cares about the Aurum shop after all.
What I am interested in is if there will ever be something in it which is not ugly and un-EVElike. And how CCP will try to force us into using the shop, once they have to admit to themselves that not enough people are using it to justify its existence. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 12:56:00 -
[390]
Great. The pricing strategy is up and now I can be sure that I won't buy a single thing from it.
Thanks for the info and good luck with the NeX shop. (I really mean that... no sarcasm or anything like that).
Btw. just to let you know if you are still interested in hearing player's opinions... I'm right now (as I type) drinking a beer that costed me around $1 and I can already see the obvious advantages of it on this hot summer day. NeX shop products can not compete with it with these prices. |
|
Raid'En
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:31:00 -
[391]
Originally by: Roh Voleto
Notice how there is no outrage at all? Despite the prices still being unrealistic, if not to say insane. I guess nobody cares about the Aurum shop after all.
the riot was due to tons of differents issues at the same time, the NeX price was only one of them. so a bit of rage now, but not much.
there's people that does not care about clothes, and so about clothes' prices there's people thinking it's better to say nothing to avoid them going back to more stuff than clothes there's people thinking it's better to ignore it cause anyway they don't want to listen to us about prices. |
Roh Voleto
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 13:47:00 -
[392]
Edited by: Roh Voleto on 09/07/2011 13:49:51
Originally by: Raid'En so a bit of rage now, but not much.
I am sure the initial shock about the NeX prices contributed to the rage, but I believe this devblog would have been stupid enough to get the rage machine going at full tilt again, if even the tiniest portion of the player base actually cared about cosmetic items.
Edit: Replaced "the Aurum shop" with "cosmetic items". |
Cerious Gote
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 14:07:00 -
[393]
Still too expensive. The cheapest outfit costs more than a fitted t2 ship.
I know that it won't feed the micro-transactions as well but the pricing should be such that the affordable end is under 100m ISK equivalent, the mid-tier is under 1b ISK equivalent, and the high end above that.
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 14:38:00 -
[394]
Originally by: J Kunjeh One thing I'd like to see in the NeX store is a "try before you buy" feature that allows us to see what we look like in certain rags before actually purchasing them. A virtual dressing room? What say ye CCP?
Sisi is your friend... until CCP spoils it. |
Alex Roggen
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 14:54:00 -
[395]
I thing CCP is missing the whole concept of Micro Transactions and is trying to create MACRO TRANSACTIONS. $15 for a low tier virtual outfit is going to fail. I think you will be hard pressed to make elite items worth $15.00 or a month of game time.
I will never buy an outfit that is cosmetic only for more than a T1 Frig!!!!!
I see CCP trying to attract new players to this game with walking in stations, bring a whole new market segment of players, and do so with new forms of in gmae social interactions, possibly new professions inside Eve. CCP, you are going to fail if you think for one second that they will pay hundreds of real world dollars just to have a outfit. That market segment loves to dress up thier virtual avatars and you will do nothing more that push that whole market segment away once more.
The point of Micro Tranactions is to make the items cheap enough that impulse buying occurs and you make your profits over the vast quantity of purchases. Again, I think CCP is trying to make MACRO TRANSACTIONS not Micro Tranactions. It almost seems that someone at CCP made some promises to some boss on the merit of Quick Return on Investement that may not have been very realistic. |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:01:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Originally by: J Kunjeh One thing I'd like to see in the NeX store is a "try before you buy" feature that allows us to see what we look like in certain rags before actually purchasing them. A virtual dressing room? What say ye CCP?
Sisi is your friend... until CCP spoils it.
Hmm...yeah, I suppose, but it would be much better just to have something like that in the game proper. |
buck herrick
SS-20
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:04:00 -
[397]
absoultely amazing.
not one thing learned and now rushed additions to the damn NEX.
seriously, what a waste of dev time and ccp money. fix the game that used to be good - you know, the spaceship one we used to have. make that work the way it should.
oh - and perhaps listen to your customers, ultimately, as customers they are always right. customer proven otherwise are now someone elses customer and no longer yours.
to quote your poster/video child (the one that looks like the bearded lady of old) this is a "DEBACLE".
|
Alex Roggen
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:06:00 -
[398]
It's cheaper for me to buy a shirt in the EVE ONLINE STORE than it is in game!!! |
Lauren Ambraelle
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:36:00 -
[399]
It's really sad to hear that the 'low' tier will still cost about 4 times more than other games. I think CCP is really missing the mark on what Micro Transactions are all about. |
ProContractor
Caldari Viagra Lovers
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:42:00 -
[400]
i still like CCP Shadows reply here http://t.co/43zFO9T
" Edited by: CCP Shadow on 24/06/2010 17:30:40 Just for clarification, the skillpoints CCP will be giving pilots to make up for the extended downtime in this case is not tied to microtransactions.
Editing to add this: We do not have plans to go microtransaction with EVE. "
|
|
Smoking Blunts
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 15:50:00 -
[401]
lmfao. barbie dress up in space..
eve has gone down hill with this addition and ccp you have just confirmed what everyone has been suspecting, your just trying to milk every last cent of the addicts you have left.
****ing barbie in space. way to go
|
Khamelean
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:32:00 -
[402]
Edited by: Khamelean on 09/07/2011 17:32:37
Originally by: Smoking Blunts lmfao. barbie dress up in space..
eve has gone down hill with this addition and ccp you have just confirmed what everyone has been suspecting, your just trying to milk every last cent of the addicts you have left.
****ing barbie in space. way to go
If CCP was trying to maximise cash from the NEX store they would have made it cheap as chips. You make more money from lots cheap things than you do from a few expensive things. CCP has chosen this model to add something unique to eve's gameplay, you may not see any benefit in the items on the nex store, but that doesn't mean that others don't.
If the items added to the store were much cheaper than they are now, it would cause havoc in the plex market and likely destabilise most the economy.
Hence:
Quote: We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
|
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 17:55:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Miraqu Will there be a quick way just to change clothes/accessories or do we always have to recustomize?
e.g. :
You undock for PvP, so just put on sth suitable to killing others and leave the nice ones at home.
Preferably 2 clicks in the character menu.
Like a few customized presets for attire: Lounge, Casual, Business, Battle, Party, etc. Once configured just click which one you want.
That makes a lot of sense. So it will never happen. And it's still virtual dressup for $, so I will never care. |
Dalilus
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:05:00 -
[404]
I never thought I'd say it but EVE is being dumbed down to the pre-tween level of - my clothes are prettier than yours! Will muggers be able to steal clothes, shoes, eyeglasses, etc after knocking the victim out? Will EVE in station combat look something like Mortal Kombat or Dust?
If CCP is looking for an isk sink why not turn lowsec into carebear space where carebears, who are the majority of players, will most definetly spend billions of isk fitting out super pimped up capitals to run lvl 5s? Piwates could always gank the unlucky carebear if they chose to and CONCORD response could be delayed even more to compensate for a capitals uber tank.
Clothes? Lowsec mission running? |
Written Word
Written Word's Tax Haven
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:26:00 -
[405]
Originally by: Tarinara
Originally by: Written Word Edited by: Written Word on 09/07/2011 04:59:19 Seriously
F*ck you guys. F*ck you for making them indestructible. F*ck anybody who made it possible for them to be indestructible.
Being indestructibility doesn't belong in EVE. Remember risk/reward, don't undock what you can't afford to lose?
It might have something to do with the risk/reward of CCP having customers who spend real world money charging that purchase back on their credit card. Too many charge backs and CCP runs the risk of loosing their merchant account.
Almost any MMO which has a cash shop that sells items ( with the exception of consumables such as ammo, etc. ) does so in a manner were the items aren't destroyed by other players or are lootable/stealable. No matter how many layers of dollars to PLEX to Aurum CCP goes through - there still may be real world consequences to a merchant when customers money somehow goes *poof* in a video or computer game.
I've never read anything definitive on the subject, but my guess would be a credit card company siding with the consumer on the issue. Especially with the hundreds of dollars CCP is expecting us to pay for their 'designer japanese jeans'...
You can't do charge backs, that would be credit card fraud on the consumer's end if they caught you doing that. No credit card company is going to side with a consumer would made a legitimate purchase, and who lost all legal rights to the money the second they made it a PLEX. You threw it in the hole, its gone.
If I bought 2 PLEX, sold them for ISK, bought +5 implants and got podded, they'd be gone. Nobody has an issue with this, it should be the same for clothing.
Isn't this a Cold Harsh Universe? It could be 100K Aurum for thongs, I don't care, but indestructible stuff has no place in a game like EVE.
|
Selinate
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 18:42:00 -
[406]
Edited by: Selinate on 09/07/2011 18:44:15 confirming that i was excited about this nex store until I found out that one of the cheapest outfits cost 1 plex, total.
Really? ~100 mil isk per item? And this is just for the cheapest items???
There's not a chance in hell that I'd participate in this. |
edith prickley
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 19:06:00 -
[407]
Edited by: edith prickley on 09/07/2011 19:10:49
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
And I've never been more proud of this hardcore space game that I used to play.
We've come a long way, girls.
|
Kaylith Sen
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 19:13:00 -
[408]
You are trying to make lots of real life ISK right? If so your not doing it right. 1 PLEX for a cheap outfit is not cheap! It's easier to sell a million things for a ú1 than 1 thing for a million! |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 19:30:00 -
[409]
Originally by: Kaylith Sen You are trying to make lots of real life ISK right?
No, they're not. That's what keeps people from understanding the strategy and the decision-making behind these obviously unprofitable prices: Originally by: CCP Zinfandel We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
|
Selinate
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 19:40:00 -
[410]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
We are using a combination of in-house designers, outside art production, and in house art direction to make these pieces. And yes, we are hoping they can eventually pay for themselves and contribute to the EVE development budget.
This will NEVER happen unless you lower the prices on all the items by a LARGE amount. |
|
Megalift
Omni Tech Engineering Needless Friends
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 19:45:00 -
[411]
I want a battleaxe! |
I'thari
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 20:15:00 -
[412]
Edited by: I''thari on 09/07/2011 20:16:06
Originally by: Dalilus If CCP is looking for an isk sink why not turn lowsec into carebear space where carebears, who are the majority of players, will most definetly spend billions of isk fitting out super pimped up capitals to run lvl 5s? Piwates could always gank the unlucky carebear if they chose to and CONCORD response could be delayed even more to compensate for a capitals uber tank.
FYI: isk sink is something that removes isk from system... completely. If anything, killing stuff actually creates isk (from bounties), plus, as result of stuff destruction, increases isk/stuff ratio in eceonomy, thus making things even worse (from "we need more isk sinks" perspective).
Originally by: Megalift I want a battleaxe!
Me too, if I'll be able to kill people /dancing in station with it... |
Steph Wing
Gallente Transfixion Reverberation Project
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 20:46:00 -
[413]
Zin, you's trollin' us? That's seriously your pricing strategy?
Oh well. Best of luck to you, CCP. You can shoot yourself in the foot however you like so long as it doesn't affect my spaceship game. |
Koos Kombuis
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:07:00 -
[414]
I'm glad we don't HAVE to buy these items, because I sure as hell won't spend 3-4 month's worth of gametime on a destructable 'medium' tier outfit.
How can a piece of clothing cost more than a handful of battleships, how does that even make sense?
The role-playing part of EVE just died. |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 21:33:00 -
[415]
EVEningwear Online. vOv |
Adrian Dixon
|
Posted - 2011.07.09 22:56:00 -
[416]
People are paying a montlhy subscription for a game that is full of serious bugs. The game is broken and all your doing is working on ways to charge us twice for the pleasure.
The NeX/Aurum/Microtransaction project should be put in a freighter and flown into a black hole never to be seen again, I am serious this entire microtransactions project is an utterly ridiculous greed fueled sack of nonsesense. The Devs should be concentrating on bugs and gameplay, there should be one currency ISK and there should never be microtransactions in EVE since it is a subscription based game. I am sick of greed in every part of life!!
...And when will docking be fixed to make it "space -> hanger -> captains quarters"? Without this immersion and basic logic is ruinned just so you guys can make your NeX sales pitch! thanks! |
Aronis Contar
Caldari Independent Manufacturers
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 00:25:00 -
[417]
Oh boy...
Well first of all, thank you for making your pricing strategy clear, at least it should remove any uncertainties from the player side.
Second of all... HAHAHAHAHA
Quote: Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy.
I can't get rid of the feeling that some of your designers obediently ate up all the bull**** that is being dished out at GDC, gamescom and similar conferences.
Personally, I don't care about the NEX store at all, and about the real world money prices that are attached to the items. What irks me most, is that by making PLEX (and therefore, indirectly, Aurum) buyable with ISK, you also attached an ISK value to each NEX item - and I hate the economic realism breakdown thats introduced by having shoes in the game that cost about as much as three battleships.
This ISK to Aurum exchange rate is btw. one of the reasons the NEX store is going to perform significantly worse than it could - but I'm sure you'll be able to figure this out yourself after all the learning you're going to do
Ciao, Aronis! |
Seth Evens
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 00:38:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Seth Evens on 10/07/2011 00:41:14 I wonder where the CCP people in this thread went? I still dont know what I am more outraged about, CPP posting another blog which raises more questions than it answers, the pricing "strategy" involved, or the lack of any response to any but the trivial questions. |
XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 01:57:00 -
[419]
Here is an informative link posted before about Icelandic economics and the attitudes abound and the sheer collapse. It's a long but informative read. Some of these spaced out men own the biggest chunks of EVE online. It is their voices we see reverberated through this game. Voices of insanity and greed.
Wall Street on the Tundra |
Cooper Anderson Stewart
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 02:56:00 -
[420]
Pricing. You are doing it wrongÖà |
|
Pure Tabasco
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:23:00 -
[421]
I'm starting to think that Incarna its going to be specially made for the Japanese.
1000$ Japanese pants, fully localization, prices for things only a japanese hardcore will buy... OH ****, this expansion its for JAPAN! |
Lyssa Ruiz
Hemastatic
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:30:00 -
[422]
Any chance of bringing back purple hair? I like my new mohawk, but I would like it SO much more if it was purple.
Pax, LR |
Tam Althor
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 03:47:00 -
[423]
Wow these people in Iceland still don't get it, not that you could expect any sound financial thoughts from that place. Was hoping to read this blog and see some sense to the prices, but all I see is CCP trying to milk the players even more. So after seeing what CCP did, I will continue to keep my accounts inactive. I may think about coming back to the game when the people who thought up these prices are fired or thrown into a volcano. |
Reed Tiburon
Caldari Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 04:26:00 -
[424]
Every time since Incarna's release that I've been tempted to resubscribe, CCP has released a devblog to explain why I should not. Thanks CCP. |
Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:26:00 -
[425]
Originally by: Pure Tabasco I'm starting to think that Incarna its going to be specially made for the Japanese.
1000$ Japanese pants, fully localization, prices for things only a japanese hardcore will buy... OH ****, this expansion its for JAPAN!
I am actually very totally cool with that, let the Japanese groove on all that stuff...as long as I don't HAVE to get out of my pod!
(Yes, I'm going to b*tch and moan about this until this account expires or CCP changes the "must enter CQ even to pick up ammo" requirement.) |
Elayae
Gallente Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:46:00 -
[426]
Edited by: Elayae on 10/07/2011 05:48:35 The NEX store and it's pricing strategy seems ok except for the tier prices themselves. I understand that the prices were chosen in such a way that it would affect the EVE economy at a minimum, however in this state it will not participate in the economy much at all. As a role player I was happy to see the store for it would give more opportunities for role playing, but at this point I am trying to avoid it for it's a bit immersion breaking.
The NEX store and its contents is in conflict with the vision of EVE. The store does the opposite of what the vision tells us about being an immersive science fiction game. How do I explain new role players in EVE that a small monocle is worth as much as 3-4 orca ships? To make matters worse the station would be rife with criminals that club people down to take the monocle and fly off with a new freighter full of stuff. The fear of messing up the EVE economy with the NEX store is real, however if we divide all NEX prices by 10 it would still not affect the economy much, you have been too cautious with the pricing approach in my opinion. |
Jasmina Dunier
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 05:50:00 -
[427]
Well i'm starting to get used to this vanity stuff. But would like something extra to complete this isk sink. why not make these vanity items subject to wear and tear ? After a few monthes your boots need a polish (? AUR) Your skirt rips and you have to put on buttons on your shirt(? AUR) Your new paint job gets scratched after a battle and needs toutch up (? AUR) And why not buy direct attribute remap from NeX? EVE changes all the time and so do training requirements. It's a ***** to wait a year to remap Oh still against "pay to win". |
Florestan Bronstein
draketrain
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 07:34:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/07/2011 07:45:52
disappointed by this devblog's lack of content
I was under the impression we would get a "Why we chose this pricing strategy" blog not a "This is our pricing strategy" one - if I want to see the prices I just have to look into the NeX.
What I can't see in the NeX is why CCP thinks these prices are justified and economically viable - where are the market research results which convince me that I am just an outlier and that CCP has not gone insane?
I don't really see how it would hurt CCP (or help their competition) if they would give us a short write-up about the expected sales and impact on the in-game economy for at least one high-price and one low-price scenario.
I would also have hoped for some discussion about the future role of discounts, special offerings, sale of whole clothing sets, ...
What is the lifecycle of a typical NeX item? does it just get introduced and then stay available at the same price forever? CCP has to introduce new content continually but will old content be retired? IRL it can be pretty hard to find a piece from last year's collection.
How does CCP expect to generate a sense for fashion with customers? What will make me want to buy 2-3 different outfits per year for eternity? Will clothing collections be "themed"? |
Vicious Cell
Amarr Paragon. Nulli Tertius
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 08:01:00 -
[429]
I like the female ninja outfit and the sexy secretarial skirts.
Good work CCP! |
Matheus Esp
The Corporation of Noble Sentiments Sleeper Social Club
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Posted - 2011.07.10 09:03:00 -
[430]
Totally, utterly, completely useless BS.
Instead of hiring fashion designers, how about hiring weapon designers? Or game designers that, instead of creating virtual dresses for your barbies, would have some actually interesting ideas for a game that focuses on fighting with spaceships...
I'm paying for EVE online, not the Sims online... |
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Kandreath
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Posted - 2011.07.10 09:44:00 -
[431]
Hey this sounds like communication! - Nicely done. Keep up the openness and hopefully you'll be rewarded by a more level headed community.
To be honest, I can't see me buying anything extra. My cash is just too tight to spend on virtual stuff. My monthly sub is about all I can justify. I'd be sorely tempted by ship skins but it would be a birthday present, and I'd never ever risk it in battle.
But good luck raising more cash. If it means more, better expansions, then that would be good.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.10 10:03:00 -
[432]
As of July 18th my mains' PLEX will expire. I am still thinking about what will I do next, but so far I am testing LOTRO & feeling pretty discouraged about this whole Incarna - CQ - NEx issue. Incarna is turning to be void of content usable to the players who cared more of it -casuals who, like me, have got few time to play this game because we have a job (i.e., we got money but not time... perfect customers if you don't abuse us).
Yet CCP has managed to tell F*** YOU!! to all casual players who hoped for Incarna and prospects look very bleak. I wanted to achieve clothing to justify myself keep throwing time into this hobby. But now I must either rip open my CC (which I won't, as I've got better, REAL, hobbies to spend my money in) or just dismiss the Incarna stuff I want as in no way I am going to grind for months to get it.
And all we got is that CCP is "learning" what should be obvious to anyone who ever ran across a MT system. People rarely spend 70 $ in a bunch of pixels. And EVE players who got 1,3 billion in no way will waste it with "Space Barbies For Carebears".
So, here we are. Incarna is coming, hoorray. But it's not aimed for us casuals who hoped for it, rather aims at the wallet of player who don't give a rat's ass of it and mourn how resources are being used for this rather than their petty nullsec stuff.
And it's very, very discouraging. Why should I keep playing this game? Will you answer me, Fallout, Zinfandel, someone? |
Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.07.10 10:06:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Tippia on 10/07/2011 10:07:46
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein I was under the impression we would get a "Why we chose this pricing strategy" blog not a "This is our pricing strategy" one - if I want to see the prices I just have to look into the NeX.
Pretty much. This dev blog doesn't do what it sets out to do.
The blog does not present a pricing strategy or explain CCP's approach to pricing; it just presents the prices of current and future items that this untold strategy and approach has generated. The blog kind of promised the process (which is actually interesting), but only presented the end results (which we can see in the store anyway).
There's still no word on why these prices and tiers were chosen. There is no word on what the goal is with the prices (or the NeX, for that matter). Why does the subscription-based EVE have more expensive MT than the MT-based games out there? The only thing we've gleamed is the comment on the first page that making money is not the point and that they don't want to upset the economy. That is the kind of information that is needed, and in absence, we can still only guess why things are the way they are.
Is it the case the the NeX is not an MT store in the sense everyone expects ù thus explaining that the prices are not what everyone expects ù but that its purpose is rather to slowly bleed the market of PLEX (which, agagin, explains the high prices)?
How much of the pricing is due to technical limitations? Did you want to make expensive items (in ISK terms) which, due to the unfinished state of the store meant that you had to set high AUR prices to get there?
You say you're only dipping your toes, but where is it supposed to lead? With a leisurely soak and scrubbing-off or with a Olympic swimming medal? What is it you're testing here, really? People's willingness to pay at all, or their willingness to pay these kinds of high prices, or their willingness to sacrifice game time for other services, or the market's response to a new kind of sink, orà what, exactly? Basicallyà Quote: Give us some insights into your actual strategy so we can make informed decisions, don't just tell us stuff we can already see by ourselves. Give us some confidence that the NeX store rests on a solid business plan and is not just another management failure.
àthis. |
The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.10 10:24:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Matheus Esp Totally, utterly, completely useless BS.
Instead of hiring fashion designers, how about hiring weapon designers? Or game designers that, instead of creating virtual dresses for your barbies, would have some actually interesting ideas for a game that focuses on fighting with spaceships...
I'm paying for EVE online, not the Sims online...
You mean like redesigning turrets?
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Gypsy RoseLee
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Posted - 2011.07.10 11:51:00 -
[435]
Thank you for making it very clear you do not want me to resubscribe any of my 3 accounts.
This just proves without a doubt that the developers and lead management of CCP suffer from extreme Dunning-Kruger Effect. The fact that they can't wrap their heads around why there is such a massive rejection of the Nex store can only be explained by the Dunning-Kruger Effect. That or they are the most evil greedy mother fathers I have ever run into in any of the 20+ MMO's I've been a part of.
So which is it CCP Zinfandel, blinding stupidity or ravenous greed? |
Xanos Blackpaw
Amarr Inadeptus Mechanicus
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Posted - 2011.07.10 13:50:00 -
[436]
News at 11, CCP still have no idea what MT mean... |
Shaana Mistique
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Posted - 2011.07.10 15:13:00 -
[437]
paying for stuff in a game i have to pay for to play. right.. I AM still flying spaceships rite ? Maybe you could add some clothes for my ships aswell?? fluffy ships ftw. |
Talsha Talamar
Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2011.07.10 16:02:00 -
[438]
Lets put CCPs pricing in real money terms:
~15 Euro - Affordable Tier >45 Euro - Mid-Tier >225 Euro - Delux Tier (5 slot a (15 Euro x 3)
>>>225 Euro - Exceptional Tier
Insane. Ethically wrong and disgusting.
Originally by: ccp
An affordable tier outfit... one PLEX ... Mid-tier outfits ... 3-4 PLEX ... Deluxe tier outfits ... two or three times the price of an affordable outfit on a single piece An exceptional tier ... rare investment for the wealthiest ...
Originally by: CCP
...slots: Footwear, Bottoms, Tops, Outer, and Eyewear...
Originally by: CCP
flamboyantly rich capsuleers ... currencies from Earth.
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Spugg Galdon
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Posted - 2011.07.10 16:12:00 -
[439]
/facepalm |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.10 16:21:00 -
[440]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've got one pair of "cute high heels" coming in the next month.
The suits and tuxedos and such are being developed as part of our "corporate collection" which is months from now. We are in the "military collection" now. Also coming up is our "cyberpunk collection."
I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer for the cyberpunk collection. I may have to create a female character one of these days.
And this is CCP's vision of a Sci-Fi simulation? Clothing for our physical bodies?
I can't even begin to imagine the amazing things that could have been if CCP had invested their financial and intellectual capital in creative science fiction related aspects of the game.
What. The. ****. |
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Tarinara
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Posted - 2011.07.10 16:58:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai And it's very, very discouraging. Why should I keep playing this game? Will you answer me, Fallout, Zinfandel, someone?
^^^ This!! How about an answer to this question CCP! What is our motivation to pay you ( yes ... some of us casual care bear, ex nerfed lvl4 mission runner scum pay CCP to play this game... ) to play Sparkle Space Dress-up Barbie? |
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.10 17:39:00 -
[442]
Awesome CCP, Im glad that this pricing structure will save me from ever spending any money on the NeX store. I just spent ú90 in World of Tanks, I guess the value for money was a lot better there. |
Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.10 17:53:00 -
[443]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai And it's very, very discouraging. Why should I keep playing this game? Will you answer me, Fallout, Zinfandel, someone?
QFT
Don't hold your breath, they are too busy cooking up **** sandwiches for us to eat.
Personally I won't be playing this game until they remove Mega-Transactions and fix the years old backlog of broken / incomplete features. So I seriously doubt I will ever log in again.
Perpetuum Online is still freakin awesome. A small indie game with developers that haven't had their minds polluted with delusions of corporate imperialism. Funny that a small studio with minimal income can iterate on core gameplay more effectively than a powerhouse with three-hundred thousand subscribers. I guess that is what happens if you develop your flagship product instead of spending the bulk of your resources on marketing and other developmental projects.
CCP: All bark, no bite. I for one think that this is a time where we should watch what they do, rather than what they say.
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.10 17:59:00 -
[444]
I'd pay for Tier 1 clothes. :) The expensive ones, to be precise. I didn't spend 3 attempts at the character creator to make my characters beautiful (ahem), only to deface myself with a plucked-out eye-patch people call 'monocle.' But a fancy outfit, THAT I'd buy!
Kudos for CCP!
P.S. Yay for BiS! (Barbie In Space) |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.10 18:42:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Ranka Mei I'd pay for Tier 1 clothes. :) The expensive ones, to be precise. I didn't spend 3 attempts at the character creator to make my characters beautiful (ahem), only to deface myself with a plucked-out eye-patch people call 'monocle.' But a fancy outfit, THAT I'd buy!
Kudos for CCP!
P.S. Yay for BiS! (Barbie In Space)
ADDENDUM: CCP, please make it so that NeX clothes can be previewed thru the regular character customization 'mirror' thingy. Prior to buying them, that is! (Just gray out the 'next' button or something when you're still wearing unpaid for NeX clothes).
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Vin Hellsing
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:58:00 -
[446]
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 10/07/2011 22:04:06
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
I think you guys are going to create a disenfranchised element in EVE that will be very upset with you, with this pricing strategy, Zinfandel.
You're telling us that a single item of clothing that looks fantastic and is highly attractive as a piece of clothing, will be effectively $80.
We have roleplayers, good sir, and you are going to be ****ing them off in due time. They are not all rich, either ingame or out. Can you imagine sitting in EVE, playing, and walking around in establishments, as a roleplayer, and you realize that you are basically looking like every other Caldari Deteis, and you want to spice up your character a bit...
...only to find that the average piece of clothing is worth twenty American dollars?
Here's another dynamic you should have accounted for when involving real currency: The average gamer will not place greater precedence on digital currencies, but on real tangible currencies. Which means if you were to price a single military flannel shirt for the AUR equivalent of one PLEX, you are effectively charging that person $20.
This is the dynamic CCP needs to account for, which they apparently have not. The overall atmosphere and approach I have seen thus far tells me that CCP treats their MMO more as a platform for "hobbyists" that shell out lots of money for things that support their hobby.
The reality is that most hobbyists prefer to have a tangible object in their hands for the $100+ they spend on each purchase. I am a model railroad hobbyist (HO-scale), and I can tell you that it is FAR more gratifying to be paying $450 for a steam locomotive that is a precise replica of a real locomotive - one that you can hold in your hands, run on a train layout, and admire on your fireplace mantletop.
It's not so gratifying when I shell out the equivalent of $20 USD for a pair of affordable-tier 3D-modelled boots, of which I do not actually claim any ownership for because the EULA of EVE expressly states that my account is owned by CCP, not me. As a result, I just feel ripped off.
The reality about your NeX pricing structure, CCP, is that it is hugely flawed in terms of business model. You want to make it all look reasonable, and to me, who survives on barely $800 a month (and has to scrap together money to pay for a 3-month subscription), these prices are an insult.
You are effectively creating a market system that panders to the haves, but does not pander to the have-nots.
Most companies that do DLC and microtransactions know how to price their goods properly so that both the haves and have-nots can participate in the market on equal footing. Sure, the haves will have more stuff, but that's beside the point. The point is giving the have-nots the option to choose what they want to have without starving them to death.
With that said, CCP should have done a study of the real-money income levels of EVE Online's players, and aimed for the greatest common denominator. This isn't rocket science, CCP - if you wanted to "learn", you could have done so without creating a societal divide in EVE Online that pits the haves against the have-nots.
It's called "studying what the other companies do". Learn by example, apply by example. What you're doing right now, CCP, is like throwing crap at the wall to see what sticks - what you don't realize is that the wall itself is the very representation of EVE - a mural if you will - and you're wrecking that mural, making it difficult for certain elements of the playerbase to enjoy the game.
Think on it!
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:07:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Tarinara
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai And it's very, very discouraging. Why should I keep playing this game? Will you answer me, Fallout, Zinfandel, someone?
^^^ This!! How about an answer to this question CCP! What is our motivation to pay you ( yes ... some of us casual care bear, ex nerfed lvl4 mission runner scum pay CCP to play this game... ) to play Sparkle Space Dress-up Barbie?
Certainly not that they've aimed at our gameplay rather than our credit card... I want to play for those items, not pay for them, as a mean to justify my gameplay.
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Vin Hellsing
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:14:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Originally by: Tarinara
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai And it's very, very discouraging. Why should I keep playing this game? Will you answer me, Fallout, Zinfandel, someone?
^^^ This!! How about an answer to this question CCP! What is our motivation to pay you ( yes ... some of us casual care bear, ex nerfed lvl4 mission runner scum pay CCP to play this game... ) to play Sparkle Space Dress-up Barbie?
Certainly not that they've aimed at our gameplay rather than our credit card... I want to play for those items, not pay for them, as a mean to justify my gameplay.
QFT. CCP should have just thrown out the NeX market and went with player-craftable clothing. That would have gone over a LOT better than this ****storm.
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Vin Hellsing
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:25:00 -
[449]
Edited by: Vin Hellsing on 10/07/2011 22:26:21 P.S. - I thought you Icelanders had more business sense than this. Didn't you have some megabanks managed by some of the most intelligent financial managers in the world? Oh wait, nevermind.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:31:00 -
[450]
Originally by: Vin Hellsing (stuff)
Well, it's hard to judge. The "hobby" approach is what they used at the infamous Fearless pdf, but, who knows what are they thinking? We are left to wonder why would a company undertake such an effort and then spoil it by not attending to their customers. Have you been asked about what would you think it would be the "right" price for NEx? Has the CSM? Has anyone? I guess the answer is "No".
And now they spoiled my hopes for this game. I've been running missions for two years and since I got a marauder -a money-printer in terms of mission running- it's becoming increasingly hard to figure why should I keep grinding to pay for grinding to pay for grinding. I was hopeful that incarna would bring some aditional gameplay for me, but turns it won't (Buying boosters? Bleah. Chasing bootleggers aka PvP in hisec? I fart in your general direction!). Then the NEx entered scanner and was a funny thought. "Why not Space Barbies?", I said myself, and was hopeful about it. But the prices mean I can't play to get them. And they're already getting 30 Ç each month from me, one way or another.
Mission running no longer cuts it. This main's PLEX expires July 18th. And I no longer find a reason to keep playing this game I like, which means I shall not keep paying for it.
It's very discouraging (well, already said that).
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Vin Hellsing
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Posted - 2011.07.10 22:53:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Originally by: Vin Hellsing (stuff)
Well, it's hard to judge. The "hobby" approach is what they used at the infamous Fearless pdf, but, who knows what are they thinking? We are left to wonder why would a company undertake such an effort and then spoil it by not attending to their customers. Have you been asked about what would you think it would be the "right" price for NEx? Has the CSM? Has anyone? I guess the answer is "No".
And now they spoiled my hopes for this game. I've been running missions for two years and since I got a marauder -a money-printer in terms of mission running- it's becoming increasingly hard to figure why should I keep grinding to pay for grinding to pay for grinding. I was hopeful that incarna would bring some aditional gameplay for me, but turns it won't (Buying boosters? Bleah. Chasing bootleggers aka PvP in hisec? I fart in your general direction!). Then the NEx entered scanner and was a funny thought. "Why not Space Barbies?", I said myself, and was hopeful about it. But the prices mean I can't play to get them. And they're already getting 30 Ç each month from me, one way or another.
Mission running no longer cuts it. This main's PLEX expires July 18th. And I no longer find a reason to keep playing this game I like, which means I shall not keep paying for it.
It's very discouraging (well, already said that).
I plan on renewing my subscription for one more three-month period. If CCP does not get their act together by the end of that period, I'm finished with EVE.
And I was starting to get into it, too...
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2011.07.10 23:25:00 -
[452]
Someone must have gone to the Games Workshop school of completely not getting how sales work. -----
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.10 23:32:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai Someone must have gone to the Games Workshop school of completely not getting how sales work.
They understand part of it. They understand that if you sell a monocle for $80, that there will then be people who will buy one, hoping others think they're the coolest thing since sliced bread. It works.
They forgot the part where it's more clever to sell 1,000x $8 items than 52x $80 items, though.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
edith prickley
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Posted - 2011.07.11 00:09:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Vin Hellsing
I plan on renewing my subscription for one more three-month period. If CCP does not get their act together by the end of that period, I'm finished with EVE.
And I was starting to get into it, too...
What constitutes "getting their act together"? I'm convinced it's longer than a 3-month job.
But ... if you are just getting into it, I'd say it's worth giving Eve a try. Actually, there's a lot to enjoy before you become a bitter vet like the rest of us quitters
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Ramman K'arojic
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Posted - 2011.07.11 00:49:00 -
[455]
HP 8:55
I have some questions: I see that you have not said how many items per tier; but over all are we expecting 50 or hundreds or thousands of items. ? Will the obnoxiously priced items be one offs (given there price you probably have paid for the development cost outright)?
BTW my take on CCP current pricing model is that these goods are way over priced; hope you have sales like most retail businesses. (Limited offers such as buy 1 get 1 free, 30% off, slightly soiled (add coffee marks) 70% off and off course a $2 shop)
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Desert Ice78
Gryphon River Industries R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.07.11 02:13:00 -
[456]
Quick question:
Can you give me a rough estimate of how many man-hours you are currently wasting on this **** that could otherwise be put into things like....fixing the game???
There was an Idea that was Eve: whatever you possess, you gained on merit, however worthy or nefarious. Not because you had access to DaddyÆs credit card.....
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Heavenly Blues
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Posted - 2011.07.11 02:25:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Desert Ice78 Quick question:
Can you give me a rough estimate of how many man-hours you are currently wasting on this **** that could otherwise be put into things like....fixing the game???
They are fixing a game, its just not the one you are paying for.
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Cosmoes
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.11 03:50:00 -
[458]
Edited by: Cosmoes on 11/07/2011 04:06:35
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 10/07/2011 10:07:46
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein I was under the impression we would get a "Why we chose this pricing strategy" blog not a "This is our pricing strategy" one - if I want to see the prices I just have to look into the NeX.
Pretty much. This dev blog doesn't do what it sets out to do.
...
This will not happen.
When have CCP ever explained to players their motivations for things? At best you'll get half an answer focusing on good things and using lots of watchwords like awesome, epic and excellence.
I'm not convinced they even try to look at all the sides of an issue. As long as their is some reason to do it that they can use to explain it to us that's good enough to go ahead and do it. Things like long term plans, analyzing the bad sides and doing reviews of where they went wrong are either not being done or being ignored.
For example evelopedia had dozens of problems and still hasn't left beta after 4 years now they plan to bring out another community site that's nearly the same except with even more potential problems. How could this possibly go wrong? ------------------- I am forced to get changed out of my gooey pod in front of the entire hangar and my ship crew. Yet I can't walk around my own quarters in my underwear?? |
Icarus Starkiller
Forge Regional Security
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:07:00 -
[459]
The price if 1 PLEX for an 'economy' suit of clothing? A virtual wardrobe??
For that price I could get an entire Avatar built in SL, with a custom skin and wardrobe. And it would have 100% the same effect: Nothing.
It's digital goods, people, not clothing from Mal Wart or Tiffany's! You can't do anything with it except... sit in your lag cabin and what... spin in place?
Honestly, the NEX and the goods offered is a horrible abrogation of all that once repeat: ONCE made Eve great. Now it's become the butt of bad jokes throughout the MMO world... not even the most vilified game out there, WoW, has earned as much scorn.
See you folks somewhere else, but I'll be keeping my stuff just so you can't enjoy it. --- War does not determine who is right...
... it determines who is left. |
Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:14:00 -
[460]
Yeah, haha: "This is why we chose the current prices:" - followed by a list of prices and a screen shot of :awesome: new dresses in hopes to distract with shiny.
So, CCP, why did you select the prices? What is the reasoning behind your choosing them at the level they are right now?
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Callidus Dux
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.11 07:57:00 -
[461]
Edited by: Callidus Dux on 11/07/2011 07:59:23 Args.. CCP!!! Please do NOT design more such useless crap. YOU have promised to bring back the old hangar (or an acceptable equivalent). Do THIS first before you waste more time on this crap. I never will use the makrotransaction. It is useless. And I demand to stay this as useless thing. There should not be an pair of glasses which made me shooting better with my weapons.
Stop the waste of time for the useless NEX-**** and bring back the promised Hangar!!!!
I hate the offending door, when I dock and the NEX-Store! WHEN will I be able to dock as normal.. as before the Incarna crap-patch?
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Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.11 09:07:00 -
[462]
Considering that the default options from the character generator is severly lacking, wouldn't it be sensible to add things available for free or through game accomplishments? These are your paying customers after all.
It seems obvious to me that the NeX store won't affect PLEX prices when volumes are low, how can you learn anything from that? What will happen when/if the items actually become popular?
Oh and I'll tell you a secret regarding vanity items from other games. Vanity items only make sense in a playable environment. Somehow along the way you forgot to implement that environment. You won't have a market until you have an interactable Incarna.
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Sadegio
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Posted - 2011.07.11 09:11:00 -
[463]
I want them epic shoulders an a big ****ing sword I can slice my enemys with!
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.07.11 09:53:00 -
[464]
Are there any plans to integrate clothing and vanity items more into EVE gameplay?
For example by selling BLUEPRINTS of those vanity items for AUR and then let the players manufacture the items from existing (or maybe new) materials.
Any plans like this? |
Cain Anung
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Posted - 2011.07.11 10:34:00 -
[465]
Well, I applaude Zinfandel for answering more direct, and being frank about it all. Good job, keep it up. Most of us will answer respectfully, Im sure. I can understand if you ignore the few diehards that insist on groping about everything, even though they could just ignore the new things, if they dont like it. Regading the prices: Well, Im no genious in the market-department, but I agree, that if you want this to pick up pace, you should REALLY work hard on the player manufacture-part. It would give the insentive for us to adopt the items into the game. I still think that the enormous ambitions CPP has for the game, in the long run, is cool. But at times, it seems that youre doing some stuff, that makes the game more demanding for your PC. The new icons for modules, makes all my windows VERY slow to update. Ex: When I salvage, and double-click a wreck to loot it. I have to wait for it to load the icons images (sometimes up to 5 seconds?!), for each window. It seems unrelated to this topic, but all in all, your Incarna UI-stuff makes for a slower gaming experience. I wonder how much that will evolve in the future, when the game has to handle enormous differing imaging, like individual ship-design, avatar-diversity etc. Your turret-animations, for instance, are still redundant, but takes CPU to render. And tbh, its only cool, the first time you see it. Id rather use those resources for other game-mehanical stuff (like updating the windows icons faster :-)
And last: To all you malcontents out there. Understand this: This game, and the complexity of the game-mechanics (from economy to UI.issues etc), is enormous. No other game on the planet has such complexity. You should appreciate that, before *****ing and hurling insults at the Devs. To think they are doing these things to destroy the game or annoy you, is a juvenile perception. Buckle up, and send these Devs your experiences with the game, in detail, so they have a chance to understand your real worries. Instead of your constant conspiracies and innuendos. Lets help make this a better game. NB. I have to say: The designs of the clothes is not something Id put on my main, tbh. It would seem, that we nerds have no taste :-)
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.11 11:27:00 -
[466]
Originally by: CCP Fallout CCP Zinfandel's newest dev blog gives us information about the Noble Exchange's pricing strategy. You may read the blog here.
DE version RU version
I've read Zinfandel's words on previous occasions, I trust you will understand if I don't care to read anything else he might say.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.11 11:30:00 -
[467]
Originally by: AnzacPaul Can I ask how it is justified in the Eve universe that a "budget" outfit costs as much as 3 fitted battleships?
Well you can ask. There will be no answer.
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Reilly Duvolle
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:17:00 -
[468]
Keep it up CCP, you are doing great.
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justin666
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:31:00 -
[469]
funny that ccp claim eve is real
refuse to belive there is a world were a outfit will cost more money than a top end t2 battleship
ccp stop forcing us to play by your stupid vision because we dont care we just want to have fun
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:53:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Cain Anung ... And last: To all you malcontents out there. Understand this: This game, and the complexity of the game-mechanics (from economy to UI.issues etc), is enormous. No other game on the planet has such complexity. You should appreciate that, ....
Lets help make this a better game. ...
EVE is an awesome game. The depth of play is amazing. And most EVE subscribers do appreciate this great title.
Yet, CCP's terrible communication regarding the NEX store, a re-direction of development capital into a console title + WIS, a recent patch with very little playability value, recent nerfs to null-sec, long-standing game-play issues and lack of iteration on game content updates from the past few years have created a scenario where people who love the game are up in arms.
Read this forum. Read the various player-generated EVE blogs. EVE subscribers try to make this game better every single day by reporting bugs, writing in-depth game design proposals, etc., etc.
When CCP decides to invest its time into MT clothing as well as a nearly useless space Barbie UI that many pilots have turned off, yeah, the dedicated subscribers to this Sci-Fi simulator are hacked off.
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Glyken Touchon
Gallente Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.07.11 16:11:00 -
[471]
Once the novelty wears off, most people will decide on a "look" for their character and stick with it. That means they only ever buy 1 or 2 outfits/uniforms (if the desired styles aren't available for free).
Personal opinion without stats to back it up: make worn clothes destructible & have low tier outfits cheap enough that people replace them without a thought (100 AUR items?). The repeat business will make more money and require less art-dev time/expense for updates. ______ Tippia's analysis of NEX/Incarna |
Cain Anung
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Posted - 2011.07.11 16:12:00 -
[472]
Im inclined to agree. There are lots of good players, giving their 2-cents, on important issues. And no doubt; The EVE community in general, is adult and reasonably behaved. But. Its also clear, that a LOT of malcontents use their 2-cents, to launch verbal assault and depravity. Often disguesed in irony or sarcasm. Ive been on the forums, in the last month, or so, and seen plenty of crap-talk and conspirational banter, to last a life-time. Quit the drama, is all I say. You all know who you are. That said: CCP should make some crucial changes in their administation and setup, for sure. This last debacle is the proverbial straw. But that could happen to all corporations. We should accept that they made a booboo, and that they apparently are working hard to retify this problem. Anything else wouldnt be constructive or helpful.
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Chidori kun
Minmatar Starship Operating BastardZ
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Posted - 2011.07.11 17:56:00 -
[473]
Well what ever CCP may say atm they are totally bonkers...
Basically the clothes are costing more then our spaceships. However they spin it AUR is a other currency it's just screwed up.
No atm I will not buy it it's way out of range of what is sensible. It's like buying jeans for the price of a Ferrar. Anyway no I am not against CQ or WIS as it look now a rather walk naked in the station then trying to fit a Ferrari on my ass..
Chid
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Kathryn Railly
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Posted - 2011.07.11 18:28:00 -
[474]
Canceled three accounts:
EVE Online Subscription Cancelled
You have cancelled your EVE Online subscription.
Your account will be suspended at the end of the current subscription period
Reasons: Your plans to force Incarna/CQ on players. Barbies in stations is not what I signed up for when I started playing Eve Online, and as long as you plan to remove the ability to completely avoid this waste of development, I'll remove your ability to generate income from my subscriptions. Your idea and implementation of micro-transactions is ludicrous. As long as CCP and Himlter continue to believe your Eve players are to be regarded as nothing but a way to pillage funds for projects that the players have no interest in, I'll never drop another dime into your coffers.
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Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.07.11 21:17:00 -
[475]
Originally by: Juil Edited by: Juil on 08/07/2011 16:06:20
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
Ok I have specific questions here and I'm being open and honest about them:
- did you even look at other MMO's for your pricing strategy? Because honestly your prices seem to be a little high.
- Did you look at the PLEX costs when doing all of this. 2 plex = around 40$, that means that 7000 aur = 40$ which means that anything costing 4 plex = 80$ real life, please show me ANY other MMO charging anywhere CLOSE to this for a vanity item.
- Did you even look at the ISK cost for all of this?
- Why are all of these items being done in the form that they produce objects IN game from NOTHING?
- Why could the cost in AUR not be for a 1 run BPC or the like which then uses IN GAME planetary Resource Items and Industry to Create? This ability is already IN the game and would:
- Drive PI to actually be used for more then POS use.
- Still gain CCP Real Life money because the item is a B.P.C not a B.P.O
- Allow for the sale of the item far more easily on the eve market it actually has a DIRECT Isk cost beyond the price of the blue print.
- Create another new industry for the players to get into.
- Maintain the 'Players control what is created IN game aspect of eve.
- Did you even bother to consider the fact that AUR should be pruchasable seperate to PLEX?
- How on earth are you justifying the costs still? It does NOT take several hundred dollars to produce a single asset unless your 'outsourced' modelers are really bad.
Now you asked for the questions so there they are I'll be intrested to see if you bothe answering any of them with any real depth.
Bump for 'answer to questions' or sorry was that I'll answer questions on the first four pages then STUFU cause you are questioning my superiority? - Juil Phoenix Industries
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Metalcali
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Posted - 2011.07.11 23:19:00 -
[476]
I was promised one with a latex fetish would be satisfied by the clothing selection, where is my latex |
Sizeof Void
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Posted - 2011.07.11 23:59:00 -
[477]
Just a bit of feedback for CCP Zinfandel (apologies, if repeating someone else's prior post):
1. Most (over 90%) of the EVE Online playerbase consists of aggressive hetero males - mid-teen to middle-age - who are interested in spaceships and blowing things up, and who probably don't spend a lot of time/money on fashion clothing in RL (ref: AT9 player commentators on YouTube - yikes!). Cool headgear, maybe - customized car/cycle paint jobs, possibly - stylish high-fashion skirts, doubtful (tasteless mini-skirts and questionable lingerie for girlfriends, hmm... ok). It is rather unlikely that sales of women's high fashion in NeX will ever justify the 3D production cost of even a small selection of such items.
2. The head and upper torso are the only parts of the avatar which are currently visible to other players. So, consider focusing your near-term production efforts on head and upper body accessories, rather than on lower body accessories. Footwear, for example, can certainly wait until the release of WIS. Until WIS, concentrate on such items as helmets, hats, hoods, eyewear, cybernetic implants, ear/facial piercings, facial tattoos, hair styles, hair/neck jewelry, shirts, jackets, epaulets, chest insignias/medals, and other things which can be currently seen in-game by other players. Monocles sell because they can be seen in-game now, not later.
Personally, I'd really like to see NeX succeed and help improve CCP's bottom line, in order to support more dev work on FIS. To make this happen, consider your target market a bit more carefully, and allocate your (undoubtably limited) 3D production resources accordingly, in order to maximize the release of the types of items which will generate more immediate player interest, sales, and research data. |
Garia666
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2011.07.12 05:53:00 -
[478]
CCP clasifies there own virtual goods as stupid ****. As stated in there last interview. So its nice to know ccp looking at it in the same way.
I hope one day CCP will wake up knowing we aint there friends but there customer. And prevent them from makin such statements in the future.
Its a fecking mess atm. Do not click this ad. |
knobber Jobbler
Holding Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 08:20:00 -
[479]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel Hey guys,
Important note here. This is about learning. We need to learn about this stuff. We are just dipping our toes into the water here, seeing how this all works while being careful not to mess up the economy. So far, we've been successful at protecting the EVE economy. PLEX prices on the ISK market are currently unaffected.
We aren't making a lot of money but that's not the point.
Any questions?
You've already been told by your customer base that its way to expensive for the majority to bother with.
If you had stuff on there for $5 you'd get allot more custom and roi.
Look at xbox live. I can buy a whole game on there for $5, yes a whole game made by a team of people, not 1 artists afternoons work.
Look at little big planet, I can buy a whole collection of costumes several times over for the cost of one item in your store.
Your idea about brand relating to value is daft given the customer base. Your game is for geeks, nerds and other people who obsess about spreadsheets. Do you really think they give a shot about brand outside of mac vs pc or ATI vs NVIDIA?
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Jarin Arenos
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:42:00 -
[480]
I'm sorry, but I am still forced to classify your pricing scheme as "Pants-on-head ******ed". And this is coming from someone who WANTS to give you money for shiny clothes. there's this thing called "impulse purchase price". Remember, your useless clothing is competing for my impulse-buy money with fun $5-or-less indie games on Steam and Xbox Live.
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:59:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Jarin Arenos I'm sorry, but I am still forced to classify your pricing scheme as "Pants-on-head ******ed". And this is coming from someone who WANTS to give you money for shiny clothes. there's this thing called "impulse purchase price". Remember, your useless clothing is competing for my impulse-buy money with fun $5-or-less indie games on Steam and Xbox Live.
This scheme can be summarized as "avoid giving to the wanting by setting prices for the unwanting".
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.07.12 21:20:00 -
[482]
Edited by: Bloodpetal on 12/07/2011 21:36:53
I see this as a total turn off for new players.
The most simple set of clothes starts at 50M ISK? When players can barely afford and struggle to earn their first battlecruiser and first battleship legitimately? You need an entry level set of clothes for new players to introduce them to the store. Marketing for competitive behavior.
If you've made a new player you'd know that you start with 5,000 ISK. As you start to learn to play the game and understand value you start to see that Battleships are 50M ISK and rising, as you start to look at clothes, you see that the cheapest that any other player is willing to sell for the AUR they used to buy it is 50M ISK, you're going to get a turn-off negative reaction from new players who can't "socially" compete.
You need a low tier clothing that starts around 10M ISK per item at maximum (if not 1-2M) with a full set costing about 50M ISK maximum.
You're generating negative attention from players that want to be able to enjoy the store and not have to pay more than a ridiculous sum of ISK/AUR away from the game altogether. A new players first impressions coming in and seeing hundreds of million ISK clothing is going to be a total turn off. They want to be able to socialize and "show off" without needing to invest large amounts of dollars so that they don't feel ostracized by the system. People want to be socially competitive, but when they see the initial investment to be competitive is too much then they will simply turn away from the game altogether.
The same thing happens with the Fencing sport. Many potential athletes get turned away because they see it as expensive. Meanwhile, everyone picks up a Soccer ball and kicks it around and can be competitive, the same thing with American Football. You can get in, play, some become professionals, some just stay for the weekend friendly game. Fencing has a low entry level participation to the competitive sport.
Clothes should be destructible as well, and you need to slash prices to represent that material is destructible, or come up with some explanation as to how clothes are indestructible, instant-teleporting and totally un-synchronized with the way the rest of the universe operates.
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TK420
Caldari Navy of Xoc The Remnant Legion
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Posted - 2011.07.13 02:37:00 -
[483]
Do you plan on adding any new clothing to the game that isn't in the NEX store?
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.13 04:47:00 -
[484]
Originally by: TK420 Do you plan on adding any new clothing to the game that isn't in the NEX store?
In a way, I hope they don't. Pod Pilot Standard Issue. I'll be proud to wear that, and I'll laugh at the douchebags that pay for their duds. You only need to preen on stations if you can't face space.
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Elda Amamiya
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Posted - 2011.07.13 05:21:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Bloodpetal Edited by: Bloodpetal on 12/07/2011 21:36:53 Clothes should be destructible as well, and you need to slash prices to represent that material is destructible, or come up with some explanation as to how clothes are indestructible, instant-teleporting and totally un-synchronized with the way the rest of the universe operates.
Those free default clothing are indestructible so it may be the same logic for NEX items(when u wearing them). Or may be they get destroyed but the system just issue new ones for you for free just like your Ibis.
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Hun Jakuza
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:47:00 -
[486]
Edited by: Hun Jakuza on 13/07/2011 09:50:42
CCP NeX Golden Bullets
CCP introduction: The Golden Bullets Stuffs in NeX
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Geo Wahs
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:58:00 -
[487]
Ive no interest in this stuff, in fact Im pretty much against it . . .but micro transactions are kinda supposed to be . . . . .you know . . . micro.
Paying a months sub for something is not a "micro transaction", thats a "rip off".
And much as I have seen CSM's work, Im still struggling on the whole believing they are not going to be selling golden bullets some day, unfortunately so do a lot of folks and they seem to be quitting or putting the game on the back burner.
You had best fix a lot in next major patch CCP ( especially Gallente ) to make up for pedaling all this crap.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.13 16:41:00 -
[488]
Edited by: stoicfaux on 13/07/2011 16:43:34 Apologies in advance, but I'm not going to read through the 17 pages before I post.
If anyone hasn't already mentioned it[1], but: * the prices are too high (as in you're nucking futs high,)
* the items are vanity items that no one else can see[2] (aside from facewear,)
* none of it is spaceship related. I'm going to go out on a limb[3] and state that most of your customers play Eve for the spaceships.
* the dev blog doesn't actually tell us when the MT store will have anything spaceship related
* the dev blog doesn't mention when we will be able to interact with other avatars
* the dev blog doesn't tell us when you all plan on taking your meds again[4].
[1] Yes, that was sarcasm. [2] /facepalm [3] More sarcasm. [4] Sorry, that was uncalled for.
P.S. I actually feel insulted after reading that dev blog. That's a first.
----- Request for Eve Development Roadmap. Let CSM know that we want one.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:26:00 -
[489]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel I've seen some amazing sketches from our fashion designer
You're Senior Director Sales & Marketing right?
Your monocle for sure adds to your credibility.
Ha, ha, ha!
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Mibad
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:31:00 -
[490]
Your sales and profit will dramatically increase if you sell everything for $2.50- $5, maybe even $10 or $15 for the "rare goods".
"A micropayment is a financial transaction involving a very small sum of money and usually one that occurs online. PayPal defines a micropayment as a transaction of less than 12 USD"
All your prices just put a bad taste in my mouth especially when you throw around the word MICRO-transaction.
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Rayna Ravenoff
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:55:00 -
[491]
Okay, seriously, you guys are going about this all wrong. The majority of people are not going to pay to dress up. Yeah, you'll get a few Ken/Barbie types to sign up.
The real money is in Pay-2-Win.
Now, you can't do that with the spaceship folks because, well, you already saw what happens.
But it's all fair game in the Incarna world. Get the Incarna missions going and mix in your Aurum sink along with crafting for guns and armor and vehicles. Don't get too greedy and share the wealth with the players and you'll be fine.
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:11:00 -
[492]
CCP: Lets be transparently clear - your MT prices are morally and ethically wrong.
C.
'GREED IS GOOD' - CCP 2011 (ಠ_O)
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:20:00 -
[493]
Soz, I go to log into EVE a few moments ago. First thing that I see is the new "Dress to Impress" advert. Not interested.
Then I see that the EVE service is down due to database issues -- again.
Please stop investing capital (be it borrowed or subscription fee originated) into **** clothing and re-allocate funding towards game platform stability and the player-generated and science fiction aspects of the game.
Additionally, continued examples of CCP employees spending relatively large amounts of RL currency on designer jeans and rare WoW mounts do nothing for moving the game and public relations positively forward.
It is little wonder that Hilmar tweeted for recommendations on a CMO (I hope that's Marketing). Current CCP employees haven't a ****ing clue.
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Tigresze
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Posted - 2011.07.15 16:30:00 -
[494]
Edited by: Tigresze on 15/07/2011 16:33:11 NeX = Nix from Nexon
They are the freaking outside consultants. Bugger off Nexon!!! I had enough of this.
PS: There is nothing noble comming from a capsuleer!
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Jon Engel
Intaki Security and Intelligence Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.07.15 22:28:00 -
[495]
I want a T-shirt with an American Bald Eagle, a pair of sweatpants with a hole in the crotch and a pair of grey sneakers with velcro.
Put that in the Nex Shop.
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Morgaaan
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.07.15 22:32:00 -
[496]
Just watched this>>>>
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions
may CCP should also.
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Lemming Lass
Minmatar Lemmings Online
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Posted - 2011.07.16 03:45:00 -
[497]
Now I see the "Dress to Impress" NeX store ad on the login screen. Really? Some toon's butt in a long skirt is meant to impress? We will be able to lay on our belly with our legs up in the stations some day? My impression is that anybody that pays so much for a skirt is a total, self-esteem-lacking moron.
And enough with the whining about people who are upset about this crap. Maybe some people are way over the top, but I take no joy in this. I have years and (up until recently) 4 accounts invested in EVE. To see CCP sh*t all over its player base like it is doing is very sad to me. I was looking forward to a day a year or two from now when I would have lots more free time, some RL friends that I could buy accounts for so they could join the fun at my expense, and play in a great sandbox environment, including Incarna. But this complete neglect of the feedback of the core spaceship oriented gamer base and an over-emphasis on this pay-to-dressup nonsense has made me completely lose faith in CCP's vision of EVE as a game to play long-term. And that's no small accomplishment given that I've been understanding and defensive of CCP during all the bumpy-ride expansions that have rolled out over the years.
So don't tell people like me to stop "whining". We are giving accurate and important feedback to a company desperately in need of listening to its customers. The more shrill we sound is a reflection of how much we care, but also are ignored. And if we are ignored, we will be gone. And I guess everyone left can hope that the NeX store will at least offer some decent lingerie at some point. Then you can maybe get one hot screenshot of your space Barbie (or kinky space Ken) before EVE becomes a memory.
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Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2011.07.16 06:46:00 -
[498]
Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 16/07/2011 06:53:55 "Dress to impress" said the advert for the 'Needlessly Expensive' store today.
Impress whom, with what?
Pay 7000 Owrum for an outfit that only I can see? That's $30 I could spend better wining and dining a REAL female in the real world (well, ok, I should probably invest a little more than that).
Whoever set these prices should have their head examined.
Mind you, it's not that I don't have the ISK - I could buy a few dozen outfits with ISK even if did not want to put RL cash into it.
The thing is, at these prices I feel ripped off. I feel as if CCP is saying behind my back "That guy is so stupid, he'd rather buy a skirt than play for a month longer". Guess what, I don't like being though off as stupid.
Besides, to my eyes the stuff you made is boring and crappy. Why would I spend the equivalent of two months of playtime on it?
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JcJet
Caldari Pretenders Inc W-Space
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Posted - 2011.07.16 10:49:00 -
[499]
Edited by: JcJet on 16/07/2011 10:52:05 Well, those items are too expensive for noobs. That's true...
But anyway, it's cool, keep up a the good work :) I think i'll wait 6+ months before i'll buy something, because there will be more things to choose from, and more space for a walking...
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness That's $30 I could spend better wining and dining a REAL female in the real world (well, ok, I should probably invest a little more than that).
That's cost nothing for me... Most of the times |
Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.17 23:56:00 -
[500]
unless the avatars have the possibility to interact with other, no one is going to care (except for a VERY limited number).
---- Ceterum censeo blasters need some tracking love |
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.07.18 15:35:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Chi Quan unless the avatars have the possibility to interact with other, no one is going to care (except for a VERY limited number).
Does CCP even have a published (or internal) time-frame for in-station, character-to-character interaction?
CCP's track record points towards placing Incarna into the waste bin of dropped projects (re-vamped ship models, W-space, fleet warfare, etc, etc.).
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Elina Tan
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Posted - 2011.07.18 17:56:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Lemming Lass Now I see the "Dress to Impress" NeX store ad on the login screen. Really? Some toon's butt in a long skirt is meant to impress? We will be able to lay on our belly with our legs up in the stations some day? My impression is that anybody that pays so much for a skirt is a total, self-esteem-lacking moron.
I actually tried out the fancy skirts yesterday, on sisi; and they don't even go well with any of the tops, really. Some of it isn't even looking half bad:
Dressed to impress?
I'm not sure I'd pay monocle prices for these getups, though (the black outfit is supposed to be either Tier 2 or Tier 3, and will be very expensive).
Anyway, like with the skirt having no viable top to go with, your incarnated toon itself has no one to 'dress to impress' for yet. I could see myself do business, for instance, in station, in a nice, fancy, 'executive look' kinda ensemble, but there's no one to meet yet.
In many ways Incarna was simply launched prematurely. No one to impress yet but yourself; and lying on your belly with your legs up? I haven't nearly seen that kind of flexibility yet -- or signs that we'll get such: as it stands (pun intended), we can't even go sit on our bed.
-- "If your monocle causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you!" (Elina 18:9) |
Tadari
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Posted - 2011.07.19 08:46:00 -
[503]
Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:51:48 Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:51:34 Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:50:26 Hi guys.. Eve isn't about spaceships anymore.. its about gay clothes.. O M G!!! Dear dev.. please give me the option to go naked around a station - and I promise, I wont wear clothes anymore..
No seriously.. Incarna and especialy those PLEX4GAYSTUFF things just don't make any sense to me yet. And why doesnt it make sense? - I cant build it. - I cant blow it up. - I cant fly it. - I cant mine it. - I cant scramble it. - I cant do damage with it. - I cant show it. tbc...
Those clothes dont contribute to the fun, you have with a game. Those are just looking good - but no game will ever be a real good game if its only looking good
So please - I really beg you CCP - get rid of this crap! We dont need it.. and most of us dont want it. And we really dont understand why youre wasting youre time, implementing this rubish. |
Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.19 09:29:00 -
[504]
Originally by: Tadari Incarna and especialy those PLEX4GAYSTUFF things just don't make any sense to me yet.
And why doesnt it make sense?
- I cant build it. - I cant blow it up. - I cant fly it. - I cant mine it. - I cant scramble it. - I cant do damage with it. - I cant show it.
Shortsighted much? To paraphrase an old saying, If you only have a hammer, you're only looking for a nail.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Elda Amamiya
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Posted - 2011.07.19 09:35:00 -
[505]
Edited by: Elda Amamiya on 19/07/2011 09:35:23
Originally by: Tadari Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:51:48 Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:51:34 Edited by: Tadari on 19/07/2011 08:50:26 Hi guys.. Eve isn't about spaceships anymore.. its about gay clothes.. O M G!!! Dear dev.. please give me the option to go naked around a station - and I promise, I wont wear clothes anymore..
No seriously.. Incarna and especialy those PLEX4GAYSTUFF things just don't make any sense to me yet. And why doesnt it make sense? - I cant build it. - I cant blow it up. - I cant fly it. - I cant mine it. - I cant scramble it. - I cant do damage with it. - I cant show it. tbc...
Those clothes dont contribute to the fun, you have with a game. Those are just looking good - but no game will ever be a real good game if its only looking good
So please - I really beg you CCP - get rid of this crap! We dont need it.. and most of us dont want it. And we really dont understand why youre wasting youre time, implementing this rubish.
For me, Looking good is better than PvP :P I dont care if CCP remove PvP form EVE(which will not happen anyway) but I do appreciate they add these stuff to the game(even though they are way too expensive)
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Rainer Unsinn
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Posted - 2011.07.19 20:46:00 -
[506]
Since the new "V" series begun to air in Germany I finally know what the artist who designed the clothes was watching. And it's not really looking overly futuristic in that show either.
However it's looking far better on Morena Baccarin than in game. No way is it worth the asking price unless you deliver that actress with it. Will you?
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DoctorMolotov
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Posted - 2011.07.20 16:29:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness "Dress to impress" said the advert for the 'Needlessly Expensive' store today.
Love the name for Nex. Needlessly Expensive. HA!
Right now there is a picture of a non contributing zero with a monocle stating: FOCUS on your reputation and appearance. Looking glass ocular implant.
I fail to see how this implant is supposed to help you in any way, shape, or form. The only thing it does say about a person is A) they work for CCP and got it for free *glares at some devs*, or B) "look at me, I am a complete and total toolshed that bought into CCPs crap and actually spent money/game time on this ridiculous item even though it does NOTHING to improve the game".
*sigh*
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Ranka Mei
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.21 09:58:00 -
[508]
CCP needs to fire a few people. Seriously.
Their marketing folks have developed some sort of tunnel vision: the "$1,000 pants syndrome," as I like to call it. It's a highly narrowed vision, based on the single observation that "others will admire you and think you are the coolest thing since sliced bread," in the words of CCP Zulu. And it works. There's already a whole toolshed who bought into the monocle, status-enhancing hype. It's still marketing tunnel vision, of course, as there's always only a very small segment of the buyer population who goes for this stuff. Base a store solely on these type of customers, ignoring more common sense business models, and you have a sure recipe for failure. One of these common sense business models, for instance, is that it's better to sell 10,000x $8 dollar items than 100x $ 80 dollar monocles.
Also, the prices in the NeX store are not harmless. Zulu said we don't have to buy any clothes. True; but if you focus your ingame store on just a few percent (if at that) of your player base, then you will eventually start to p*ss off your clientele. Not because they're jealous, mind you, but simply because you're basically spitting in the face of the vast majority of your other customers, who will increasingly start to feel you're completely ignoring them. Any 'sane' MMO business model caters to its largest common denominator. That's not to say there's not also room for expensive monocles; but essentially, yes, you need to offer stuff that will be within reach of most of your players.
And now a note on fashion. As it stands, there's WAY TOO FEW clothes in the NeX store. Even if I wanted to buy the outrageously expensive Executive Tier 3 dress (not yet in the NeX store), a dress is not a monocle: 'women' (even when role-played) don't want to walk around in 'the' dress, however fancy it is, when others are wearing the one dress too. Clothes are really not like monocles this way; trust me on that. For me, and my alts, it means I prefer walking around in the regular outfits, simple because they allow for rather varied permutations, making my look (relatively) unique. So, if CCP wants to sell an expensive wardrobe, they really need to pull some designers off Dust, and offer a much, much wider range of virtual, fancy clothing.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us." -- CCP |
Lolmer
Amarr Merciless Reckoning
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:44:00 -
[509]
Heya CCP, here's some nice, free advice at the escapist - Extra Credits: Microtransactions. And if you're really serious about joining in on microtransactions, the guy may be hired as a consultant.
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Davon Kastire
Caldari Hit it n' Quit it
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Posted - 2011.07.25 04:56:00 -
[510]
Edited by: Davon Kastire on 25/07/2011 04:57:15 The clothing wasn't the real problem, I thought that was made clear. It's the pricing. I'm not going to buy a plex and use it to buy clothes, I'm going to trade it in for additional game time. The scales are not at balance here. Plexes do not need a second function. There needs to be a better way to obtain Aurum.
Since Loyalty Points seem to grow on trees now, my idea is to trade in LPs and some additional isk in for AURUM Checks and in order to convert those checks INTO AURUM, you have to pay a real money fee. These Checks would cost less LPs and no additional isk in the CONCORD LP store. I'd feel more comfortable spending money on AURUM knowing that I did something other than just flip my wallet open to obtain it.
I'd say more to make my idea more clear but the TL;DR gods would smite me. (I hope I'm not out of line posting an idea in this thread) "To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." |
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Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
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Posted - 2011.07.25 18:59:00 -
[511]
If you're going to charge ridiculous amounts for this crap, at least when a POD gets popped their clothes should get destroyed or left in the pod wreckage for somebody to take from your cold dead corpse.
You want to use daddies credit card for a $70 monocle, you have to live with the fear that you're going to lose it in a laser fight to the death. _________________________________ ## You got that? Right I'll be back in approximately 300 seconds to retort! ## |
DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.26 20:53:00 -
[512]
To CCP Zinfandel:
I'd rather pay for 5 permanent weapons and some bonus clothing in Battlefield Play4free instead of a single suit of clothing no one will be seeing for the next 18 months.
Did I tell you I bought MOO2: BaA, Jagged Alliance 2 and Planescape: Torment from GOG 3 months ago? Combine that with 2 albums from a musician that recreated Rush's Subdivisions. You have a blast. You feel like you are supporting honest and creative work. Now that's $60 well spent.
Good job creating the most powerful negative and laughable symbol in the industry a game can ever have. I'm sure the marketing department would be extremely pleased. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Zulu It is CCPæs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
...... We'll see. |
Starn Holdren
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Posted - 2011.07.27 19:53:00 -
[513]
I'm with the majority of people on this. If I do get some insane desire to play Barbies it would be be far cheaper to actully buy Barbie clothes and a little doll.
Even if walking in station wasn't a headache inducing pain in the *ss I still wouldn't be spending real world money on this. Maybe Halloween it would be a lark to pay a couple bucks for the Ninja/Conan whatever costumes.
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Creh Ester
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Posted - 2011.07.28 13:34:00 -
[514]
Just reinforcing the gist of this thread. I see EA doing unfathomably stupid things all the time. I really don't get it as I can't even imagine the mindset that leads to there. I sorta feel the same about how the NEX store was opened. I don't get it. Is stupidity something wich is spread through general developer circles? group-thinking?
Now I DO want to play space-Barbie. But I really need to have some items to do that, won't I? And that is never going to happen with current items (who did you contract to design such drab boredom?) or current prices. Ask yourself: Why would you rather NEVER sell me even one single item for like Ç40, than selling me a hundred items for a total of like Ç100? I mean it's a diffence of Ç100 to zero in profits?
Some few extreme prestige items are ok, but you really need to let people loose here, if you're gonna see some turnover. Where's my slick business suit with pants tight in the crotch? Where's my tank top and leather pants? Jeans and T-shirt? Jacket and miniskirt? And why don't we have a choice of colors? Where's my club dress? Where's my outrageous, silk evening gown? Or scandalous swimsuit? And how do you plan to make the awful underwear you forced onto us compatible with anything like that?
Just asking. "learning" and whatnot mumblings, I would've thought all these things are utterly obvious to anyone.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.28 22:49:00 -
[515]
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 28/07/2011 22:50:35
Originally by: Creh Ester
Now I DO want to play space-Barbie. But I really need to have some items to do that, won't I? And that is never going to happen with current items (who did you contract to design such drab boredom?) or current prices. Ask yourself: Why would you rather NEVER sell me even one single item for like Ç40, than selling me a hundred items for a total of like Ç100? I mean it's a diffence of Ç100 to zero in profits?
Some few extreme prestige items are ok, but you really need to let people loose here, if you're gonna see some turnover. Where's my slick business suit with pants tight in the crotch? Where's my tank top and leather pants? Jeans and T-shirt? Jacket and miniskirt? And why don't we have a choice of colors? Where's my club dress? Fetish pilot suit? Where's my outrageous, silk evening gown? Or scandalous swimsuit?
Relaaaax....it's all coming, eventually. This is just the beginning. I hope we see some new stuff released tomorrow with the gift of AUR we're all getting. ______________________
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) |
Devai Starchild
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.29 11:56:00 -
[516]
Man, just don't get it.
Who wants to pay 20 dollars for an article of e-clothing? The fact of the matter is clothing loses 99% of its value when it doesn't exist.
You want to make money? Slash the price to 5$. Sell those pixels in quantity and it will more than pay for the quality of those "fashion designers" you are hiring.
Better yet. Fire them. Give the player the ability to design and sell clothes. Hell, sell the designer kit for 20$ bucks. That way the players get something that actually can be utilized, you get your sales, and everyone gets a wider variety of character customization that doesn't cost the equivalent of a real life outfit to have.
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Pytria Le'Danness
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Posted - 2011.07.29 19:54:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Devai Starchild Man, just don't get it.
Who wants to pay 20 dollars for an article of e-clothing?
It's just a coincidence that the first "free" Owrum arrives in time to buy the new and "high fashion" garbage dump. None of which can be bought with the advertising campaign disguised as "free gift".
CCP just hopes people throw good PLEX after the initial drug taster in order to buy stuff that does not exist.
No wonder Owrum is not yet transferrable between characters "for testing". That guy with the 26 accounts could have bought two monocles otherwise, and that's not what CCP wants.
I begin to wonder if they read too many bad japanese fantasy stories where admitting a mistake (like "We set prices too high") causes a face loss that can only be acquitted by ripping your own innards out with pieces of rotting shark or something.
They really must think we customers are stupid. It's bad enough that players scam in Jita, but that CCP would drop itself to the same level... What happened to the company that designed EVE? Anyone know where it went?
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Mercurye
Nubian Sundance
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Posted - 2011.07.29 20:21:00 -
[518]
Hmm, I guess Ill have to save my AUR for something else, today's update left me a little dissapointed. (But I'm sure there's something for other people)
The 'Structure' skirt was the least appealing: I am not interested in ductaped 'High Fashion'. Poor chosen pattern aswell in my opinion
The heels are fine but I would expect these to come standard with the customization options...the name gives it away in a way: they aren't all that special
Am I too critical or spoilt by saying this? Maybe, but I just got back in the game again so I am full of energy again ~~~~~~~~~~Sade~~~~~~~~~~ *I'm a Soldier of Love, all the days in my life* |
Anika Tan
New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.07.30 16:20:00 -
[519]
Design something fashionable, and I'll buy it. The new executive line (still not on the main server) was a good start. But ccp, honestly, you need to invest some time in making GOOD designs: not the crap that's on there now.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Shadow Confederation
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Posted - 2011.08.01 14:42:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
Originally by: Devai Starchild Man, just don't get it.
Who wants to pay 20 dollars for an article of e-clothing?
It's just a coincidence that the first "free" Owrum arrives in time to buy the new and "high fashion" garbage dump. None of which can be bought with the advertising campaign disguised as "free gift".
CCP just hopes people throw good PLEX after the initial drug taster in order to buy stuff that does not exist.
No wonder Owrum is not yet transferrable between characters "for testing". That guy with the 26 accounts could have bought two monocles otherwise, and that's not what CCP wants.
I begin to wonder if they read too many bad japanese fantasy stories where admitting a mistake (like "We set prices too high") causes a face loss that can only be acquitted by ripping your own innards out with pieces of rotting shark or something.
They really must think we customers are stupid. It's bad enough that players scam in Jita, but that CCP would drop itself to the same level... What happened to the company that designed EVE? Anyone know where it went?
Off the deep end.
Pretty bad when they give us all 1000 AUR only to find out you can buy a pair of boots..... lot a good that will do people... ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
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Alex Sinai
Mining And Probing Specialists
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Posted - 2011.08.02 15:24:00 -
[521]
Dear capsuleers,
Don't you think it's CCP way to ask for your monetary support? May be for obvious marketing (shares up/down) reasons they can't raise montly payments or ask for direct donations from us. They also can't implement systems you propose that work in other games since then what different EVE will really be. Way less unique and considerably less attractive. Besides who say they wont expand the shop and/or give customization to players in next expansion. Its easy to complain. Lets look a bit beyond that. They took a bite larger then they could eat (two games in development) and obviously spendings rose way higher then expected. (which is also usual in gaming industry). So they desperate for money and see a lot of it in EVE. Just problem that virtually any serious move they make is a huge risk of losing a lot of players and that's a lot of money with them. So they can't change mechanics. I consider NeX shop as not too obvious request for help.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.08.02 23:17:00 -
[522]
Originally by: CCP Zinfandel
But initially this is just about learning. And you'll see us doing things with prices to try to learn more.
Do you sometimes listen to people to learn what they want?
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kai dragonstorm
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Posted - 2011.08.06 14:31:00 -
[523]
why is the new clothing priced alongside real money, i read ppl putting tops for 60 dollars and such, dollars dont exist in eve, only isk,
lets compare with some eve items, you can buy polytextiles which is what the clothes are made of for around 3000 isk, you can buy a slave for 700 isk, so how come a skirt is worth billions,
what is with that markup, the fabric is cheap the labour is cheap, please explain CCP
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