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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 13:51:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa If it was just a lone cloaked ship I had to worry about, it would not be a problem for me. The problem is whether or not they have a cyno equipped.
If he has a cyno, surely he needs to be active to use it. Plus, many cyno situations can be negated with a jammer.
The thing is, your problem isn't cloaks, but local intel channel. You're misreading the instant intel it's giving you and making bad judgements based on your misreading.
Without a change to local, cloaks should remain as they are now. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.10 21:03:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 21:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Val'Dore
Originally by: Mag's Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
The Carebear infection is spreading... even CCP has it now.
I kind of agree although there is a small chance things may get better, but I'm not holding my breath.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Depran Depran
AFK Cloakers i 0,0: No change needed. It is a Black Ops strategy and active Intelligenge gathering about the system and its player compositon, needed for later attack strategies. Should we likewise suggest to abollish gatecamps in 0,0 space, just because it seriously harms my welth? ?
>> I think gatecamps are fine. ItÆs one of the more tangible ways for alliances and corps to protect their areas geographically and while a lot of people donÆt see it as the most exciting form of PVP, itÆs as legitimate as any other. Making money wasnÆt meant to be done in complete safety. If anything, IÆm a little afraid that EVE has gotten soft; WeÆre too used to playing in safety, and IÆd be more likely to cut some wires in that safety net than add more.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.10 22:17:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Val'Dore The problem isn't the AFK cloaker, he can't do anything to you. The problem is Local telling you he is there at all.
Val, they don't want to hear facts, they simply want risk free PvE.
inb4 "but there's no risk in cloaking and going AFK for hours" answering with yes, when cloaked everyone is safe until the cloak is deactivated, then everyone is at risk. But without local, AFKing is pointless as a psychological weapon.
Because covops don't exist.
To be understood, you should at least make a coherent post that makes sense. Then people will understand what you are talking about.
You may as well have just replied "Purple Monkey Socks" tbh.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 07:37:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Mag''s on 11/07/2011 07:37:52
Originally by: Miang Hawaa
Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Miang Hawaa Because covops don't exist.
To be understood, you should at least make a coherent post that makes sense. Then people will understand what you are talking about.
You may as well have just replied "Purple Monkey Socks" tbh.
When even simple sarcasm flies over your head, I have to wonder how you managed to even get the game installed. Stay in school, kid.
For sarcasm to work, it needs to be a sharply focused ironic retort. You simply added words pertaining to the topic without any focus placed upon it.
Do you even have an argument, or are you now only going to show how poorly you use the English language?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.11 20:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Lots of words....
You haven't answered my question yet.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:01:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is not the issue, the fact that they are there is not the issue. At no time should any player be able to gain an advantage of the other players without being at there computer. That's what needs to be fixed with the AFK cloaking. The fact that you gain a tactical advantage without playing.
Botting gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character.
AFK Cloaking gives you an advantage without you having to be there to control your character. You get intel on a system, see who's there and who comes and goes outa the system, ect all without needing to actually play the game. Its just like botting and going out a mining. The only difference is that you dont need to use a third party program to do it.
That's the issue that needs to be addressed, by removing the simple fact that you can do it while afk as I have stated previously it allows for both sides to have an advantage. We still wont be able to find you, we still wont be able to kill you. The mechanics of the cloak do not change. The only thing that changes is you now can't just come into the system gather the intel or other items without being at your keyboard.
Personally that's all I want to see change, I want you at your keyboard to disrupt my productivity or gather intell on my systems. I honestly don't care if I can find you and kill you. I just want you at your keyboard and actually playing to gain any advantage perceived or real in my systems. You want to take my industry level from 5 to 4 by disrupting my activities great I have no problems with you doing it as long as your at your keyboard doing it. You want to scout out my system and find out the best times to attack when resistance will be light or not there, great fine just play the game to do it. You want to find my PoS and take it out great just play the game while you do it. That's all I want to see change.
How do they gather intel whilst AFK? What other items to they gather whilst AFK? How do they disrupt your activities whilst AFK?
I'd like honest, factual answers please.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 00:12:00 -
[8]
Please answer each question directly.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 07:23:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Intell, if you set it right you can read threw the logs when you come back, if you sit near a gate and use fraps, you can see what ships come in and out. By using fraps you can see how many folks are in local and what the active times are.
You can't rely upon chat logs for intel, it's an extremely unreliable intel source.
Fraps. You honestly want me to believe, that someone would create hours of fraps to watch later?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Items you of course wont gain any.
You already said they do, why did you lie about that?
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Disruption is easy, I dont know if they are afk or not, so rather then risk it and have 10 hulks out with 1 person doing protection, i now have 3 to 4 folks providing protection, this lowers productivity, and if you consider how much ore you have to mine to keep an industry level of 5 or 4 each day, that loss can and most times does mean the loss of that industry level.
If I am going to online a PoS in that system, it would be relativly stupid of me to do so without having protection while it is going up and getting onlined.
Ratting is also affected as we will most times not go out and rat due to the rats warp scraming us. The risk is to great of you having scanned us down and then dropping a cyno and us being unable to get away.
But they are AFK. How do they do all of this, whilst not at the keyboard?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.12 20:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Portmanteau
Originally by: Eperor
allready exist sych programms with are using frapses and that can be counted outomatikly no need even count them manyaly with all ship names insted.
my eyes
Indeed.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.15 17:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu This is the last time I will try and explain it to you all.
The issue is not that they are cloaked. Cloak mechanics do not need to change.
The issue is the tactic is not having the desired effect. People have become so used to it that while some folks post threads like this over all going into a system and cloaking and walking away from your keyboard is not causing the effects it should.
Yes all the countering tactics, running with friends ect, get used when a cloaky comes into system. That's not the issue. The issue is that while it disrupts a system and causes a little grief and lowered production. It in no way causes the effects that it should.
A cloak in system should stop that system in its tracks, while folks try and find him, bait him, kill him, work at protecting assets ect. That's what I want to see change. The cloak doesn't need to change just the AFK portion of it. Untill the afk portion of the tactic changes it will continue to be just an annoyance and that's the part I want to see change. I want to see this be more capable then what it is of disrupting a system.
For those that asked, I would create hours of fraps for intel for systems that I wanted to take down. Any good tactician gains as much information as he can before launching an attack. You also don't need fraps. There are programs out there that can "read" the info displayed on your screen and put it in a text format. Sit 130 off a gate cloaked up walk away and you get to see what kind of ships come into system how long they where there by having local logged properly to see who was in system.
Why are you avoiding my questions?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.16 13:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cendric De'Credsiu Mag's I already answered your questions.
No you haven't.
But this is all pointless argument now, as local is being nerfed.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.07.29 14:03:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Syekuda I dont know what exactly is being done with CCP on this subject but I know they are doing something about it. I don't have the exact source but 1 dev wrote somewhere here that they are working on the problem. I don't know if it will be out on the winter expansion but it will go out.
and yes, I agree something should be done about this since theres no counter whatsoever about this afk cloaky.
My guess is they will make sure that cloaky will appear on scan when using probes I guess but really idk what they will do.
They are doing something about it? Where is your source?
This is all by the by now anyway, as a nerf to local is incoming with many changes to be made. As it is Local that is the issue here, not the cloak.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 18:13:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Eperor ccp wil not nerf local dream one WH space work to much difrent then usual space that make the same system waht its in WH space it insane, that measns 0.0 dead nop one will be there. bigest difrenc its trafic, in WH its limited trafick 0.0 dont have such limitations, so than need remove al gates to if remuve local, than all will become one big WH.
Local nerf is coming very soon.
Also, wat?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.11 19:05:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aramis Rosicrux This tactic is "Carebearing" for PvPers and needs to be balanced. The problem is there is no risk to the cloaked lurker.
I suggest some ANTI - CLOAK modules.
Thoughts???
Aramis Rosicrux
Wrong. AFK cloaking is a somewhat viable solution to local. But local is being nerfed soon, so I'll enjoy your whines when it is.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.12 17:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Cynoska McNamara
Originally by: Torenc IF local wil be nerfed wilbe only one ting no ratter in 0.0 noo0ne wil risk his ship for sanctum. or wath ever good anomaly. All will grind isk in high sec with alts so that will be the way wath you wish to make.
Allrweady with last nerfs off 0.0 about 40 % off 0.0 po9pulation left 0.0 fariming in 0.0 alone and warms in high sec misions.
I agree. With local removing, 0.0 will be just a pirate zone. No reign will grow. 0.0 is done for military forces and citizens. Don't think just like a pirate. The pirates usually have the presumption to be the only ones to play the right way. But remember pirates play to DESTROY. Others play to BUILD. You can't DESTROY if someone can't BUILD.
It's nice to see you both admit, just how powerful the local intel channel is. I will mourn your loss.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.16 13:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: OMGWTFResearch This isn't a topic about local. Keep it about the cloaking.
It's all about local. Without local, AFK cloaking would be pointless as a psychological warfare tool.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.18 15:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Kreliaan It is adorable that 95% of the people in this thread have missed the OP's point entirely.
He is not complaining about cloaking mechanics.
Maybe, maybe not.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about risk vs. reward in nullsec.
He actually mentions this in his second post and calls exploit.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about local.
Not directly. But they are inextricably linked, so you cannot talk about one without the other.
But it goes deeper than that, as you can AFK and use local for psychological warfare without a cloak. This is why most of us know the actual problem, is local.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is not complaining about enemies in his home systems.
Well actually he is.
Originally by: Kreliaan He is complaining about afk'ers. Simple solution: a timed afk flag.
This is where we find you adorable, for suggesting an idea that is so easily bypassed, not in anyway new and at the same time totally unnecessary.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:53:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kreliaan Do I really need to point this out to you? Impossible is the problem. It is a problem because it is specifically not fair. Impossible is the opposite of fair.
Ahh, the 'not fair 'card. Nice move.
Originally by: Kreliaan Why not a ghost cycle on the cloak module? Where it operates just like it does now, but only stays active for an hour at a time. Yes there will be macro'ers, but not everyone cheats at this game. It would dramatically cut down on the majority of people leaving themselves cloaked in a system while they go to work or sleep. Thats all I want. Something that makes it so you can't be absent from your computer all day and remain cloaked and invincible in a system.
You've yet to give a good reason why this is needed. By this I mean, a none emotional factual reason. You also have to include local, as it is the reason for AFK cloaking.
Originally by: Kreliaan Eventually, macro'ers will need to be dealt with, but as long as CCP benefits from their subscriptions, it is not likely to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, it would be an enormous help to this particular issue.
But in the meantime, you want to push an idea forward, that promotes the use of macros. Great stuff.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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