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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:31:00 -
[1]
Given the events of recent days, the CSM is overdue for a Fireside Chat. Join us for a free-format Q&A about the May & June Summits -- we'll try to answer your questions in a Fearless manner.
Date: Saturday, July 16 Time: 20:00 EVE Mumble Server: csm6.org (default port, no configuration necessary; server will not be live until 24 hours prior)
Your Humble Servant, Trebor Daehdoow Secretary of the 6th Council of Stellar Management
Posted by Order of His Eminence, The Chairman.
PS: May Summit minutes should be out by the end of the week, they will be required reading.
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Tiven loves Tansien
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:35:00 -
[2]
A song of fire and.. wait what?
I'll be there
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Mel Civire
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:36:00 -
[3]
Recent days?
Is this just about the endless patching of patches on patches of screwing people in the Oceanic region or just the SOE takeover and MT future.
And honestly, you can't do anything against the will of SOE so why bother?
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Tiven loves Tansien
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:38:00 -
[4]
Hey i found it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIysCj8Sh9Q
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:39:00 -
[5]
There is still a CSM? I thought there was just a Mittani now.
I'm a little bit coked up on lies and propaganda right now I'm afraid I won't be in attendance.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:41:00 -
[6]
does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
Neqa'el Uphir
Amarr PORTAL KOMBAT
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:53:00 -
[7]
CSM knows more than CCP, as CCP are clueless (like fearless, just not quite the same). They dont answer questions, CSM does. Everything that CSM says can be later denied, as they are not CCP employees. Meanwhile CCP cant even post a decent informative devblog. So i gues.. 10x CSM?
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Mel Civire
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Posted - 2011.07.12 10:55:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
Don't hold your breath waiting for SOE to get back to you.
So is this "chat" just the latest directive from SOE to get us to argue about something, anything not about the last few weeks? Get some attention off SOE and get a couple of wedge issues into the community so we resume the "usual" fighting each other and not them?
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
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Mel Civire
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:14:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
Ummmm hello CSM person.
This is EVE from my recollection, the same place my first Retriever was ganked while mining, missions Ninja'ed and been podded quite a bit in null sec.
Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
It is "fair" or just that SOE (CCP) want to train people into the consequence free land of MT?
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:25:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
That sounds like a very good way to solve all recent problems. Don't let people who buy this crap undock, thus keeping them out of our spaceship game.
It's the perfect solution.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
That makes no sense, thats like saying no one would PVP in an expensive ship/mods because they run the risk of getting blown up.
THATS KINDA THE WHOLE POINT OF EVE.
Even though CCP have stated that making money isnt the point of this (as stated by a dev), the reason that they are willing to implement an item which does not follow the laws of Eve at all for the sake of money?
Didnt this bother you guys at all? Surely the CSM could see how this makes no sense, given that anything else in the game can be destroyed, and you actually are ok with people having items that can magically transport from one station to another?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
Hiram Alexander
Caldari The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:38:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
Not at the current prices, you're right... However, at the current prices I'd imagine that almost no-one's going to buy them anyway...
Honestly, I've said it before, I think the whole pricing structure is absolutely pathetic. Indestructible clothes have no place in (my) EVE.
If the prices were cut right down, so that the transactions were actually "micro", I'd have no problem at all risking Nex goodies in pvp; hell it'd only add to the thrill.
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Mel Civire
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
Doesn't this just contradict what you said about ship paint jobs?
If someone wants to buy a Barbie dress ups from the Space Shopping Network then more power to them. They can look at themselves in their mirror all day long.
However, what if I want to target people wearing Barbie Air Hostess costumes? People either have it with them or not. I can't agree that these things should be magical. After all, I'll be able to target custom painted ships.
Running with your logic might not destroy the sandbox, but it certainly lets the local cats **** in it.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal.
What a load of bull****. If you want to generate income you create DESTRUCTIBLE ITEMS SO THEY CAN BE BLOWN UP SO PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY NEW ONES.
You really have no clue about this. It's obvious and you're not doing yourself a favor by pretending you do.
JESUS, they are even talking about built in obsolescence in the fearless newsletter as one of the best things to do. That's the antithesis of indestructible items.
Go away.
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Mel Civire
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:52:00 -
[17]
And this is how the CSM works.
SOE (CCP) party line all the way.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:53:00 -
[18]
If cost is a factor, maybe they should make implants and officer mods indestructible too. Oh wait, that's a dumb idea, just like arbitrarily setting these items indestructible. ~~~
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:55:00 -
[19]
Some people are always going to want to find something to complain aboutà Thank you for the announcement. I am looking forward to those May notes.
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Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov
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Posted - 2011.07.12 11:56:00 -
[20]
Hybrids/Gallente, ja?
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
the last sentence sounds nice but doesn't make any sense.
I see how non-destructible clothes are better from a revenue perspective but nothing you said did explain how they are better than fully destructible clothes from the "sandbox purist"'s POV.
Unless you want to argue "if CCP does not earn enough with vanity items they will start selling convenience and advantages"...
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shepard Book Some people are always going to want to find something to complain aboutà
Yeah, like we just found out that the person who should be discussing the players stance on the economic impacts the latest expansion has on the sandbox does not understand the most basic economic premises and instead repeats CCP's catastrophic and wrong stance.
That's the something we just found. We found out that we're ****ed. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal.
I'll make it even easier for everyone to see that Trebor is not competent to discuss this by asking the following question:
What is revenue-optimal?
There. See what I just did? I just called him out on using a completely meaningless term.
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Cashcow Golden Goose
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:08:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
CSM towing the company line. This is why you're irrelevant.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
Only for some, well off people wouldn't care, at current stupid nex prices. At reasonable prices more people would undock with clothes accepting it as a risk just as they do with anything they undock with.
Vanity items do have in game effects as well as out of game effects, creating a 'elite' class and relegating those not participating in the dress up to status of 'poor' pod pilots. In a game where you're value could be any number of things Incarna will start out with class divisions to obviously make many look like poor slobs, certainly seems like a great way to make EVE 'real' and increase immersion. Some will care and some won't, in some cases the 'elite' will the butt of many jokes and harassment but in others it will be the reverse this obviously is excellent gameplay to add in EVE and most assuredly extremely important to walking in stations.
As far as griefing people it would be more about the grief than the monocle out in space, sort of like blacklisting, cause that is just about the only 'value' NEX pricing/items 'adds' to the game. Chase down the monocle wearers, kill them where you find them, deny them access to your corp, make them pariahs. With their precious nex items safe from being destroyed griefing them nets CCP no extra money from destroyed crap that needs to be replaced.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh What a load of bull****. If you want to generate income you create DESTRUCTIBLE ITEMS SO THEY CAN BE BLOWN UP SO PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY NEW ONES.
With respect, I must disagree.
1) Non-destructible items can be sold at higher prices than destructible ones (although we can all agree that the prices CCP settled upon were in most cases wrong).
2) There are broadly speaking two populations in EVE -- Carebears who rarely get podded, and thus rarely would have to rebuy their destructible clothes, and PvPers who are always getting podded, and thus (given the annoyance-factor of having to undress/redress) would rarely buy them in the first place. Nobody who is getting podded every week is going to buy a monocle.
Thus, by making clothing non-destructible, you increase your income from both groups.
Originally by: Cyaxares II Unless you want to argue "if CCP does not earn enough with vanity items they will start selling convenience and advantages"...
I would prefer there to be a strong precedent in place, to reduce future temptation.
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh What is revenue-optimal? There. See what I just did? I just called him out on using a completely meaningless term.
It is the set of conditions and prices that generates the greatest income. I have some small experience with pricing of goods with little or no marginal cost-of-goods-sold; you may be interested in a brief paper I wrote on the subject over a decade ago; not entirely on point, but there are analogies.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:26:00 -
[27]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 12/07/2011 12:26:56
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
The actual reason why these items will remain invincible is really rather simple: If they were destructible, people would simply undress them before undocking. The consequence would be a lot of stress on the item database and a lot of whining from people who frown at swapping their vanaity **** around all the time to avoid losses.
Making them destructible wouldn't accomplish anything, really. Nobody would gain, devtime would be invested for no tangible effect on gameplay. CPU would be wasted with just as little effect. It would be nothing but a cash sink.
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Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Shepard Book Some people are always going to want to find something to complain aboutà
Yeah, like we just found out that the person who should be discussing the players stance on the economic impacts the latest expansion has on the sandbox does not understand the most basic economic premises and instead repeats CCP's catastrophic and wrong stance.
That's the something we just found. We found out that we're ****ed. Nothing more, nothing less.
Everyone has opinions. All you do is try to berate people in most posts you make no matter what the subject. So yeah, I do not listen to a word you say. I believe most people can see through the poison you are trying to spread.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:32:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Yarrrrrhh on 12/07/2011 12:36:44
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
1) Non-destructible items can be sold at higher prices than destructible ones (although we can all agree that the prices CCP settled upon were in most cases wrong).
We're talking about revenue here. Revenue is the product of price times number of sales. Ignoring the second part of the equation does not really improve my view of your economic capabilities.
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
2) There are broadly speaking two populations in EVE -- Carebears who rarely get podded, and thus rarely would have to rebuy their destructible clothes, and PvPers who are always getting podded, and thus (given the annoyance-factor of having to undress/redress) would rarely buy them in the first place. Nobody who is getting podded every week is going to buy a monocle.
Using this approach anything can be justified. Broadly speaking this is even more bull****, no facts, no statistics, nothing. I'd even argue that there are more than two populations. Broadly speaking, that is.
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
It is the set of conditions and prices that generates the greatest income. I have some small experience with pricing of goods with little or no marginal cost-of-goods-sold; you may be interested in a brief paper I wrote on the subject over a decade ago; not entirely on point, but there are analogies.
Scanned over it. It's about tipping and intellectual property. Barely any numbers inclded, no graphs, no formulae, no link to raw data. No references to other scientific papers. And it's two pages long.
You wrote that in school and it does not apply to the topic at hand. You have no clue about this.
The fact that you're even linking to that so called 'paper' to prove your point tells me you're delusional about the amount of your scientific expertise. Thus I repeat my initial point. We're ****ed.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 12:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shepard Book
Everyone has opinions. All you do is try to berate people in most posts you make no matter what the subject. So yeah, I do not listen to a word you say. I believe most people can see through the poison you are trying to spread.
See that's the problem. You think these are opinions and you 'believe' stuff.
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Prince Kobol
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:01:00 -
[31]
All your doing Yarrrrrhh is showing the entire Eve Forum community that you my friend are an arse :)
CCP will always generate extra revenue by making certain Nex items indestructible because many people will refuse to pay real money for items that can be lost by a suicide ganker.
Even if the item in question was only a few pounds it still does not matter as you as by the very nature of Eve, anybody can destroy anybody else.
On top of that, like another poster has already stated, if they could be destroyed all that is going happen is people are going to complain that everytime they undock they are going to have remove the items and they will stop buying items.
As for the argument regarding implants.. they have a direct effect in game where as clothes do not.
Can't see any issue here other then people complain for the sake of it.
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Obviously Confidential
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:03:00 -
[32]
I will try to be there, seriously hope that the CSM can push for some change, latest expansion/month was hardly a "comunication/PR issue" or "bad luck", currently game has stalled, is filled with unfihished or useless content, CCP seems focused elsewhere and the forums/comunity just suck with all the complaints going on.
People aren't shooting statues anymore, this has evolved into a general feeling of dissatisfaction that is corrosive.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:09:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Prince Kobol
On top of that, like another poster has already stated, if they could be destroyed all that is going happen is people are going to complain that everytime they undock they are going to have remove the items and they will stop buying items.
Some players actually have some sort of pride. I understand that feeling must be alien to you but trust me, those players would undock with destructible NeX clothes, showing the people around them how badass they are by wearing what they're wearing while flying ships that make it hard to be ganked.
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:11:00 -
[34]
Edited by: jackaloped on 12/07/2011 13:14:52 The election is over you guys won. Why keep campaigning with this townhall type electioneering?
Why doesn't the csm ever communicate with the players on the forums ccp set up for this very purpose? Jita Park has been almost empty since csm 5 left.
Not everyone can make it for your fireside chat. Moreover these sorts of chats don't allow others to follow up and get more of an in depth idea of what you are doing.
We are stuck with your canned soundbite responses. Pretty lame stuff CSM6!
Oh yeah and it doesn't help after mittani's first communication to the players after you "emergency summit" was "Nevermind those leaked memos"
I guess we have to assume you all agree with what he said since you never posted anything in response to him as individuals.
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filingo rapongo
ReviveX Fleet White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:15:00 -
[35]
so when is gold ammo coming out?
i need a lowe to farm up some isk.
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:31:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Obviously Confidential I will try to be there, seriously hope that the CSM can push for some change, latest expansion/month was hardly a "comunication/PR issue" or "bad luck", currently game has stalled, is filled with unfihished or useless content, CCP seems focused elsewhere and the forums/comunity just suck with all the complaints going on.
People aren't shooting statues anymore, this has evolved into a general feeling of dissatisfaction that is corrosive.
Tune into the fireside chat to listen to CSM's soundbite for you concerns. Will that make you happy?
CSM surely won't address that in any substantive way - like on the forums.
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Prince Kobol
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:49:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Prince Kobol
On top of that, like another poster has already stated, if they could be destroyed all that is going happen is people are going to complain that everytime they undock they are going to have remove the items and they will stop buying items.
Some players actually have some sort of pride. I understand that feeling must be alien to you but trust me, those players would undock with destructible NeX clothes, showing the people around them how badass they are by wearing what they're wearing while flying ships that make it hard to be ganked.
Lol.. man you are a hell of a comedian.
by the way, where are the these people you speak of?
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.12 13:57:00 -
[38]
I think these fireside chats are a great thing, but as another poster said, they should't be replacing other more long term forms of back and forth communication between CSM and players (i.e. forums). I feel that a lot more CSM representation should be happening on the forums, Jita Park specifically. It's been mostly a ghost town for months now. ~Gnosis~ |
General Trajan
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:01:00 -
[39]
Edited by: General Trajan on 12/07/2011 14:01:43 did you forget to add that he only expects "his voters only" to attend?
http://twitter.com/#!/TheMittani/status/88362826040737792
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Jewanna
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:02:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Your Humble Servant, Trebor Daehdoow Secretary of the 6th Council of Stellar Management
Posted by Order of His Eminence, The Chairman.
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh You wrote that in school and it does not apply to the topic at hand. You have no clue about this.
I wrote that based on the experience of running a website using the model, a website that is still around and quite nicely profitable. And sorry to disappoint you, but not only was I not in school when I wrote it, but I had the benefit of 20 years of experience doing marginally relevant things like writing computer games and helping to create the Anime market in the US.
Bottom line: you are entitled to your opinion, but until you lay down some facts to support them, they are unlikely to convince anyone.
PS: The May Minutes are now available.
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:37:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Yarrrrrhh on 12/07/2011 14:37:22
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Bottom line: you are entitled to your opinion, but until you lay down some facts to support them, they are unlikely to convince anyone.
No arguing on that. That's absolutely valid. So what's your next step now that you've agreed that your former statements are unconvincing?
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:45:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 12/07/2011 14:46:13 So PLEX are destructible, but Monocles are not.
Neither has a direct impact on the game, and arguably neither are cheap. There is no ~real~ reason to haul PLEX around rather than convenience and yet people still do it despite the fact they are destructible.
What makes virtual clothing different, and therefor exempt from the same rules as every other item in the game? _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:49:00 -
[44]
Snake Sets cost multiple times the amount of what a monocle costs. People still use them. People fly faction fit Golems which have a paper tank as well, which are worth a lot more than monocles.
The whole argument of "if NeX would be destructible nobody would buy it" is just utter bull****, disproven by items in game right now that are worth more than them.
It's such a shame that we're represented by people who deny that.
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Serwrath
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:55:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Serwrath on 12/07/2011 14:55:18 By following that logic we should all have to buy new clothes (starter ones too) EVERYTIME we get podded; and don't try to say "Oh, but they are stater clothes so they should be free!" 'cause it makes no sense when some of the starter ones look better then the NeX ones. If you grant me this then I agree to your argument.
Also, you are quite selective with what you quote and most of times only reply to part of an argument, I'd recommend you don't do that since it makes it look like you are dodging the question, which you are not, are you?
Edit: Crap posted with alt.
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dgastuffz
Caldari Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.12 14:56:00 -
[46]
are we allowed to ask for low sec or fw related stuff ?
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Serwrath Edited by: Serwrath on 12/07/2011 14:55:18 By following that logic we should all have to buy new clothes (starter ones too) EVERYTIME we get podded; and don't try to say "Oh, but they are stater clothes so they should be free!" 'cause it makes no sense when some of the starter ones look better then the NeX ones. If you grant me this then I agree to your argument.
You're just proving how bad this whole concept is. It doesn't make sense as it is right now. At all. Shoes for the price of multiple battleships just don't make sense. No matter how you twist it. NeX failed, CCP failed, the whole concept is flawed. I'm just pointing out that the people who defend NeX can't even justify it with economic means.
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Kevric
Lament of the Phoenix The Covenant.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
Spaceships are expensive. If CCP continues to allow ships to be destroyed no one who buys an expensive ship will ever undock. This injustice MUST be addressed!
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jackaloped
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: dgastuffz are we allowed to ask for low sec or fw related stuff ?
Yes, of course, they will have a soundbite prepared for that as well.
If it will make you happy to hear the soundbite make sure you show up.
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Kevric
Lament of the Phoenix The Covenant.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:16:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh You wrote that in school and it does not apply to the topic at hand. You have no clue about this.
I wrote that based on the experience of running a website using the model, a website that is still around and quite nicely profitable. And sorry to disappoint you, but not only was I not in school when I wrote it, but I had the benefit of 20 years of experience doing marginally relevant things like writing computer games and helping to create the Anime market in the US.
Bottom line: you are entitled to your opinion, but until you lay down some facts to support them, they are unlikely to convince anyone.
PS: The May Minutes are now available.
Trebor, is it more "revenue-optimal" to sell 10 $100 monocles or 1,000 $15 monocles?
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:31:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Portmanteau on 12/07/2011 15:32:26
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
Er .. just make them cheaper and destructible. It's very un Eve to have an implant that "as if by magic" is the only thing to survive a podding (in game effects or not). If the items were much cheaper and destructible, the loss of income from price would be made up for by a) ppl replacing lost items and b) players with less money actually buying nex store goods. BUT.. there's the added benefit of keeping the Eve purists happy and making a lot of players who feel disenfranchised by the nex current store prices (I know dramatic lol) happier that they now get to participate, where only the self proclaimed "elite" could.
And consider this... Eve is about risk/reward right ? I see you point out that vanity items have no in game effects. true ofc, but that doesn't mean they have no in game "reward", if they did not, exactly why would anyone bother to buy them ? The massive monocle trollfest was enough to clearly prove the fact that folks get an enormous amount of fun from the monocle, THAT IS A REWARD
WHERE'S THE RISK ??
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 15:47:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Portmanteau
And consider this... Eve is about risk/reward right ? I see you point out that vanity items have no in game effects. true ofc, but that doesn't mean they have no in game "reward", if they did not, exactly why would anyone bother to buy them ? The massive monocle trollfest was enough to clearly prove the fact that folks get an enormous amount of fun from the monocle, THAT IS A REWARD
WHERE'S THE RISK ??
THIS! So much this!
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Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:02:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh Snake Sets cost multiple times the amount of what a monocle costs. People still use them. People fly faction fit Golems which have a paper tank as well, which are worth a lot more than monocles.
The whole argument of "if NeX would be destructible nobody would buy it" is just utter bull****, disproven by items in game right now that are worth more than them.
Snake sets improve your combat ability. They have a use. People fly faction fit Golems because faction modules are more efficient or powerful.
The second part of your post is completely irrelevant. Useless monocles are not Estamel Invulnerability fields.
(P.S. Stop double-posting. You're giving the forums literally twice the amount of whining.)
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Balthasar Moreq
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: filingo rapongo so when is gold ammo coming out?
i need a lowe to farm up some isk.
^^This, I need some more ISK fast.
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Pure Tabasco
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:26:00 -
[55]
Do we all need a Fireplace screensaver for the event?
I will be there to listen -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Until CCP fixes the game and give spaceships the LOVE they need. |
Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:26:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh Snake Sets cost multiple times the amount of what a monocle costs. People still use them. People fly faction fit Golems which have a paper tank as well, which are worth a lot more than monocles.
The whole argument of "if NeX would be destructible nobody would buy it" is just utter bull****, disproven by items in game right now that are worth more than them.
Snake sets improve your combat ability. They have a use. People fly faction fit Golems because faction modules are more efficient or powerful.
The second part of your post is completely irrelevant. Useless monocles are not Estamel Invulnerability fields.
Monocles give an instant 500% bonus on ****ing people off. They're not useless you peasant.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Portmanteau
And consider this... Eve is about risk/reward right ? I see you point out that vanity items have no in game effects. true ofc, but that doesn't mean they have no in game "reward", if they did not, exactly why would anyone bother to buy them ? The massive monocle trollfest was enough to clearly prove the fact that folks get an enormous amount of fun from the monocle, THAT IS A REWARD
WHERE'S THE RISK ??
THIS! So much this!
Currently risk is obviously showing people you are a tool who'd rather have a monocle than put that plex money towards something good like 'plex for good', rewarding a new pilot or something really useful like a ship you fit and fly for fun so someone else can ruin your fun.
Then there is the small chance people will harass the monocled fool in game, griefing etc.
Finally in forums 2.0 people can ignore everything monocle wearing trolls ever say, simply because they wear a monocle. So long buddy! http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=author&p=CCP%20Zinfandel
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Amar Azaph
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Posted - 2011.07.12 16:40:00 -
[58]
The only question I have is this- When is the next election coming up for new CSM's ?
Sent from a campfire using smoke signals. |
RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Really? Because CCP keep denying precisely that. Is this a personal view or something that CCP told you? If it is a personal view then have you challenged CCP on the fact that you think they are lying to us? If it is something you heard from CCP then have you challenged them on the fact that they either lied to you when telling you this or they are currently lying to the players when they deny this (e.g. Zinfandel's devblog)?
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Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:35:00 -
[60]
Hmmm. There are so many good reasons to be ticked off at this CSM, I just don't see either the destructibility of worn vanity items or the price of vanity items on that list.
But yeah, if you want to be ****ed off at the right people for the wrong reasons, glhf. I'm sure they are THRILLED that you want to blow your wad on this crap and not talk about what matters.
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.12 17:51:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Vice Admiral Spreadsheet
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh Snake Sets cost multiple times the amount of what a monocle costs. People still use them. People fly faction fit Golems which have a paper tank as well, which are worth a lot more than monocles.
The whole argument of "if NeX would be destructible nobody would buy it" is just utter bull****, disproven by items in game right now that are worth more than them.
Snake sets improve your combat ability. They have a use. People fly faction fit Golems because faction modules are more efficient or powerful.
The second part of your post is completely irrelevant. Useless monocles are not Estamel Invulnerability fields.
Monocles give an instant 500% bonus on ****ing people off. They're not useless you peasant.
Sounds like a personal problem... You want to destroy them because you don't like monocles, they **** you off... Boohoo... Stop trolling these forums, you're awful at it.
The only "bad" part of keeping these items indestructible is that people like you can't enjoy smashing them to bits... But what if it wasn't a monocle? How would you even be able to tell that he's got vanity shoes or pants? Are you going to look at every avatar pic in the hopes to get a glimpse of what shirt he's wearing? Come on, be serious! You're just a whining arse who cries when he doesn't get what he wants!
Now to be on topic, I'm very eager to attend this CSM Q/A! Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Neftaran
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:10:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Neftaran on 12/07/2011 18:11:05 I could not care less what a CSM has to say or 'not' say.
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Abelard Nightbringer
New Foundation
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:29:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Neftaran Edited by: Neftaran on 12/07/2011 18:11:05 I could not care less what a CSM has to say or 'not' say.
I am very interested in hearing your clear, concise knowledge. please, teach me.
and Yaahhhr, i see what youre saying, you think people will have no problem spending money on ridiculously overpriced vanity items. The problem is, youre quite wrong. Even going back to you RISK/REWARD nonsense, there is NO reward to having a 2b isk shirt/pants/eyepiece combo on your character when u pvp, shuttle around, stationspin...err station-door in Jita. Even bringing up multi-billion isk snake implants, or multi-billoin isk ships in some attempt to compare how expensive things can get in pvp.... completely shows u miss the point CCP is trying to convey. Sure, my pvp char has billions upon billions of ships/implants/mods, and the entire purpose of HAVING those things is to hold a greater chance of achieving my objective. killing, while not dying. Clothes in no way will decrease my chance at dying, and if anything, make the chance go UP, with the griefer-fun to be had even if/if not the clothes were destructible. would i, with 2b isk in my head, at least 1.5b isk on my hull, waste yet another 1.5b in space-dressup if i know i can lose it? no. no i would not. no reward. all risk.
Indestructible clothes? sure, why not, i got the isk!!
CCP wins.
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Blood Fart
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:40:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Cyaxares II Unless you want to argue "if CCP does not earn enough with vanity items they will start selling convenience and advantages"...
I would prefer there to be a strong precedent in place, to reduce future temptation.
You apparently don't know how a precedent is set. They sell indestructible items in a game where everything is destructible. Regardless of what that item is the precedent is that it can and will be done to more and more items to get as many people as possible to buy.
Precedents on slippery slopes are worthless when the bottom line is the determining factor.....period.
Shame on the people who voted for this buffoon.
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SkinSin
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Posted - 2011.07.12 18:42:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 12/07/2011 16:32:08 Given the events of recent days, the CSM is overdue for a Fireside Chat. Join us for a free-format Q&A about the May & June Summits -- we'll try to answer your questions in a Fearless manner.
Date: Saturday, July 16 Time: 20:00 EVE Mumble Server: csm6.org (default port, no configuration necessary; server will not be live until 24 hours prior)
In addition, UAxDEATH will hold a Russian-language Fireside Chat on his TeamSpeak3 server located at voice.legionofdeath.info on Sunday July 17th at 19:00 EVE.
Your Humble Servant, Trebor Daehdoow Secretary of the 6th Council of Stellar Management
Posted by Order of His Eminence, The Chairman.
PS: May Summit minutes are now available, they will be required reading.
Honestly, I'm getting sick of asking, this is like the 4th 5th (?) time I've asked, but can we PLEASE get a transcript of the fireside chats. I CANNOT listen to the fireside chats because I am DEAF.
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Dante Marcellus
Minmatar Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:23:00 -
[66]
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
NAKED.
IN.
YOUR.
POD. And if you're reading this, you've fallen into a signature trap. You owe me 1m ISK. |
Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:28:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dante Marcellus
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
NAKED.
IN.
YOUR.
POD.
What about monocles?
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.12 19:47:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Dante Marcellus
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
NAKED.
IN.
YOUR.
POD.
What about monocles?
Have you considered that maybe they are removable? Oh and, why isn't there any up in space?
Man, I'll say it again, you're really bad at trolling.
Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs
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Posted - 2011.07.12 21:39:00 -
[69]
Last (and only other) fireside chat was nothing but The Mittani Show. Will be skipping it this time. Really don't feel like wasting couple hours of my life listening to that total complete dumb ass.
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Morganta
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Posted - 2011.07.12 21:57:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh What a load of bull****. If you want to generate income you create DESTRUCTIBLE ITEMS SO THEY CAN BE BLOWN UP SO PEOPLE HAVE TO BUY NEW ONES.
With respect, I must disagree.
1) Non-destructible items can be sold at higher prices than destructible ones (although we can all agree that the prices CCP settled upon were in most cases wrong).
2) There are broadly speaking two populations in EVE -- Carebears who rarely get podded, and thus rarely would have to rebuy their destructible clothes, and PvPers who are always getting podded, and thus (given the annoyance-factor of having to undress/redress) would rarely buy them in the first place. Nobody who is getting podded every week is going to buy a monocle.
Thus, by making clothing non-destructible, you increase your income from both groups.
Originally by: Cyaxares II Unless you want to argue "if CCP does not earn enough with vanity items they will start selling convenience and advantages"...
I would prefer there to be a strong precedent in place, to reduce future temptation.
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh What is revenue-optimal? There. See what I just did? I just called him out on using a completely meaningless term.
It is the set of conditions and prices that generates the greatest income. I have some small experience with pricing of goods with little or no marginal cost-of-goods-sold; you may be interested in a brief paper I wrote on the subject over a decade ago; not entirely on point, but there are analogies.
with respect Amazon disagrees. they have been quite successful going for volume over markup. Sure nobody wants to pay 60 bucks for a destructible item, but would people pay 5 bucks for a destructible item? Probably.
And market saturation means nothing if the cheap item is destructible or suffers from decay, only people who refrain from playing eve will keep their swag while the others will lose and purchase more.
Going for the jugular is just stupid, vanity items will be in demand always so why not be smart about it and go for volume sales over gutting the players wallet on a one shot deal?
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Yarrrrrhh
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Posted - 2011.07.12 22:10:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Morganta Going for the jugular is just stupid, vanity items will be in demand always so why not be smart about it and go for volume sales over gutting the players wallet on a one shot deal?
Oh no you didn't. You did not just call CCP and Trebor stupid for not understanding micro-transactions, the long tail effect and how to adequately price vanity items in that context.
YOU DID NOT CALL THEM STUPID!
... or did you.
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Ricochet Creed
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Posted - 2011.07.12 22:52:00 -
[72]
Ill call them weapons grade stupid on vanity pricing. They had it close with destructable, just also needed plex to break into 35000 aur at current pricing.
I completely understand the hobby analogy, but bait and switching new subs, or gosh people who invested years into the game are actually correct no matter how vehemently the csm is apathetic on the topic, or ccp protecting the markets. They are wrong and subscriber numbers will prove it.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.12 23:03:00 -
[73]
Pointless, much like that emergency summit you had and the CSM as a whole.
Congrats.
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Cooper Anderson Stewart
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.12 23:07:00 -
[74]
Just read through the well detailed minutes. Thank you for so much clarity.
I would love to get more feedback from the csm on where they feel ccp betrayed trust, and we sit at the current toxic environment.
I would love to speak to the much valued NPE, as i just started in late march of this year and am on the fence about keeping my 2 accounts. I see nothing in the gooey center of development, just a lot of totally new trial account conversions and bitter vet retention.
Example..
3 month old player who plays on daily basis attempts joining corp and doing incursion, mining in hisec, only to be wardecced and killed against our will. Negotiated ransom with their ceo only to have them cancel wardec, then repeatedly get killed for 24 hours thanks to ccp bug? Cancel means cancel right? Ccp cant fix dishonorable douch e bag s but they can cancel something as advertised right? This alone has cost ccp 4 accounts of the highly valued new players.
?..or are we just quickhit cashcows and churn is predictable? Why not make wardec avail only in low sec and null. Didnt i just read in the minutes lowsec is pointless? Unless you call gatecamping amamake for minmatar carebears the desired result because you wont retain people trying to get into the game if they are permanently injured psychologically the first 10 times or so they try. Think mma world champ fighting...you. over. And over. Hurts dont it. Come to washington and ill demonstrate.
"CCP misjudged what type of customer is loyal to EVE, not an impulse shopper who want to stare in the mirror for hours, they hunt humans. Hours cloaked? Definately." Dr. Garamond Trebuchet |
Shova Kais
Caldari Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.07.12 23:48:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Shova Kais on 12/07/2011 23:50:18
Originally by: Cooper Anderson Stewart Just read through the well detailed minutes. Thank you for so much clarity.
I would love to get more feedback from the csm on where they feel ccp betrayed trust, and we sit at the current toxic environment.
I would love to speak to the much valued NPE, as i just started in late march of this year and am on the fence about keeping my 2 accounts. I see nothing in the gooey center of development, just a lot of totally new trial account conversions and bitter vet retention.
Example..
3 month old player who plays on daily basis attempts joining corp and doing incursion, mining in hisec, only to be wardecced and killed against our will. Negotiated ransom with their ceo only to have them cancel wardec, then repeatedly get killed for 24 hours thanks to ccp bug? Cancel means cancel right? Ccp cant fix dishonorable douch e bag s but they can cancel something as advertised right? This alone has cost ccp 4 accounts of the highly valued new players.
?..or are we just quickhit cashcows and churn is predictable? Why not make wardec avail only in low sec and null. Didnt i just read in the minutes lowsec is pointless? Unless you call gatecamping amamake for minmatar carebears the desired result because you wont retain people trying to get into the game if they are permanently injured psychologically the first 10 times or so they try. Think mma world champ fighting...you. over. And over. Hurts dont it. Come to washington and ill demonstrate.
Lowsec is far from pointless for the people that live there.
GFs happen all the time in my area.
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XIRUSPHERE
Gallente The 8th Order
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:06:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
I would call HG clones vanity, quite a few people undock with them regularly. You speak of terms of convenience with having to remove things but I have to wait 24 hours between switching out of my various clones into something more suitable for varied situations. What exactly is the point of such an isk sink when you violate mechanics and allow for the purchase to be permanent.
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Akara Ito
Amarr Kriegsmarinewerft Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.13 00:48:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Akara Ito on 13/07/2011 00:49:34
Originally by: Hiram Alexander
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
Not at the current prices, you're right... However, at the current prices I'd imagine that almost no-one's going to buy them anyway...
Honestly, I've said it before, I think the whole pricing structure is absolutely pathetic. Indestructible clothes have no place in (my) EVE.
If the prices were cut right down, so that the transactions were actually "micro", I'd have no problem at all risking Nex goodies in pvp; hell it'd only add to the thrill.
If they make them destructible and lower the prices they lose money. At the current prices everybody can buy them as there's no risk. If they cut the prices to lets say 10 % and make them destructible, all people who live in empire will spend a lot less money on this stuff and wont have to replace it anyway because they dont lose pods. I'd like to have it cheaper and destructible and I'd probably buy it in this case myself but it's not going to happen if it lowers CCPs income. And from an RP standpoint, its more resonable to pay like a half a billion for a lifelong licence for a shirt (as capsuleers will live forever) than paying 50 Million for a single shirt.
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daddys helper
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:20:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Akara Ito Edited by: Akara Ito on 13/07/2011 00:49:34
Originally by: Hiram Alexander
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
Not at the current prices, you're right... However, at the current prices I'd imagine that almost no-one's going to buy them anyway...
Honestly, I've said it before, I think the whole pricing structure is absolutely pathetic. Indestructible clothes have no place in (my) EVE.
If the prices were cut right down, so that the transactions were actually "micro", I'd have no problem at all risking Nex goodies in pvp; hell it'd only add to the thrill.
If they make them destructible and lower the prices they lose money. At the current prices everybody can buy them as there's no risk. If they cut the prices to lets say 10 % and make them destructible, all people who live in empire will spend a lot less money on this stuff and wont have to replace it anyway because they dont lose pods. I'd like to have it cheaper and destructible and I'd probably buy it in this case myself but it's not going to happen if it lowers CCPs income. And from an RP standpoint, its more resonable to pay like a half a billion for a lifelong licence for a shirt (as capsuleers will live forever) than paying 50 Million for a single shirt.
2 words...
decay
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Digital Messiah
Oregami Ultd
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Posted - 2011.07.13 01:55:00 -
[79]
And if they were destructible? Would all you whiners be complaining that it is a conspiracy to get more money because people have to buy more of them?!
God it is like you people complain just to complain. I hope you all quit over the monocles, and things you don't have to be involved in, but get upset when others have it. It is as dumb as fighting in kindergarten over a crayon. Seriously start clarifying your opinions. And stop blindly hating on everyone and everything that disagrees with you.
Also be grateful that we even have CSM's and people with a voice outside of the development team. Not to mention they come here and talk with us on their time. Unless I am mistaken they get no pay or special service to do what they do. Show a little gratitude, respect, or at least enough dignity to address them like you would a stranger in public.
Unless of course you act this way at the supermarket, work, or perhaps you are some immature kid? Either way grow up or people will start ignoring you.
Quote: "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.13 03:07:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
Must. Find. Pencil.
As far as ship paint jobs is concerned, it probably does apply in some fashion. Who would undock for PvP in a ship with even a $5 paint job? Knowing that they might lose it in the first few seconds? Either paint jobs on ships are dirt cheap (a few cents a ship; $.25 is probably too much in the long run), or they'll wind up being indestructible for the same reason.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.13 06:54:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Digital Messiah
Seriously start clarifying your opinions.
I have perfect clarity in the question im asking.
Every other item in the game is transportable/destructable and must be transported via a ship. Many items in Eve cost alot more than a monocle. You can purchase any item from the Nex store with in game isk, by first purchasing a Plex and converting to Aurum.
Nex items can be equipped to your avatar, then magically disappear as you are naked in your pod as has been said by many, and when you redock you are reclothed again your items are on you. You do not have a "license" to wear the clothes and get them provided to you at each and every station, or at least CCP have never said that, or there is no evidence to support.
Your items are not destroyed if your ship is destroyed and you are wearing them, so they must be in your pod? Ok so if you get podded, the items never drop and you get a brand new set every single time?
I am not a Role player, but I like a consistent game, and HOW DOES THAT MAKE ANY SENSE IN THE CURRENT CONTEXT OF THE GAME? At all?
I dont care about M/T, or the price, but when it starts ****ing with the core parts of the game like making things magically transport across the galaxy and making them indestructible, well isn't the risk of things dying in Eve kind of the point?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
Cashcow Golden Goose
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 08:55:00 -
[82]
Apparently the monocles and all other items are destructible when in your ship's hold, but not when they are on your face. So CCPCSM's assertion that people will feel fully robbed is looking like hollow nonsense to cover up that they technically don't want to re-render a person's face when they get pod killed.
I'd wait for an answer, but why get excited over more truthlessness from CCPCSM?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:20:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Serwrath Edited by: Serwrath on 12/07/2011 14:55:18 By following that logic we should all have to buy new clothes (starter ones too) EVERYTIME we get podded; and don't try to say "Oh, but they are stater clothes so they should be free!" 'cause it makes no sense when some of the starter ones look better then the NeX ones. If you grant me this then I agree to your argument.
...It doesn't make sense as it is right now. At all. Shoes for the price of multiple battleships just don't make sense. No matter how you twist it...
Apart from the other drivel I gotta agree on this.
The pricing for NEX items is pretty insane. It creates this disconnect where you're scratching your head thinking "Okay now why would I pay multiple battleships worth of isk for a pair of pixel shoes?!".
They'd have to cut the price tenfold for this to make sense. And I think Nex would work better that way as I believe people would be a hell of a lot more eager to buy some of the stuff if an item would cost like a dollar max.
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Prince Kobol
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Posted - 2011.07.13 09:41:00 -
[84]
The high price was a great move by CCP.
Most MT in Game Store have a couple of very high price vanity items that only a few will every buy.
Right now CCP will be watching the sales of the space pirate eye patch and as long they are selling the price will remain the same.
At some point the sales will drop off because everybody who is prepared to pay that amount would of brought one.
At this point you most likely see the price for the pirate eye patch drop and a new expensive item appear, and so on and so forth.
As for the whole they should be destructible, unless the items only cost pence, they will not sell. Most people will not buy vanity items that they can lose because somebody decides they does not like the colour of their pants and ganks them.
The biggest mistake CCP made was when they introduced the store they only had a few items. They should of had at least 20 - 30 low priced items with the launch.
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Portmanteau
Gallente CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2011.07.13 10:18:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Akara Ito
If they make them destructible and lower the prices they lose money. At the current prices everybody can buy them as there's no risk. If they cut the prices to lets say 10 % and make them destructible, all people who live in empire will spend a lot less money on this stuff and wont have to replace it anyway because they dont lose pods. I'd like to have it cheaper and destructible and I'd probably buy it in this case myself but it's not going to happen if it lowers CCPs income. And from an RP standpoint, its more resonable to pay like a half a billion for a lifelong licence for a shirt (as capsuleers will live forever) than paying 50 Million for a single shirt.
I disagree, why ? Because you are forgetting to factor in all the people who may now buy said items because they won't cost silly money.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.13 11:25:00 -
[86]
came in expecting mittens to be telling peopel to f off, left disapointed
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.07.13 14:54:00 -
[87]
Someone needs to ask the CSM how they can be stupid enough to think the trace amounts of minerals wormholes produce compared to the bot-fleets of null warrant removing ABC ores from wormholes.
Daytrippers? Bull****. They come into an occupied hole, they leave in a pod, if they're lucky. They come into an unoccupied hole and odds are the Sleeper rats will run most of them off. With only an 18 to 24 hour window into a hole they're not going to put a dent in anything.
Hole residents? Please... with the occasional site we get we mine what we need and tend to use most of it. We're not competing with your nullbots.
What they need to do is push to add moon-goo to wormholes. Let that shake things up a bit.
There is no monocle. |
Luckytania
Gallente Bullets of Justice
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:31:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow ... 1) Non-destructible items can be sold at higher prices than destructible ones (although we can all agree that the prices CCP settled upon were in most cases wrong). ...
Non-destructible items break the RP immersion aspect of the game. Period.
However, try this on for size, the NEX store vanity items are not indestructible.
This issue might be resolvable by some new descriptive text about just what it is you're buying in the NEX store.
You're not really buying a single physical item but rather a lifetime 'service' or 'subscription' for an item of that type and when you're podded they supply you with a new one, wherever needed, every time needed,áwith no questionsáasked. They could even spin that as an explanation for why the items cost so muchásinceáa Capsuleer'sálifetime is unbounded and the prepaid 'item replacement and delivery charges' could be quiteá extensive over time.
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Takita Yukida
Quo Vadis Domine
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:40:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh Yeah, like we just found out that the person who should be discussing the players stance ...
I'd be glad if you stopped taking position for all of us players. You are just one player and although entitled to your own opinion, you should not assume you speak for all of us.
Whether I agree with your opinion or not, it is just not your place to speak for me (or anyone else); the only ones who might try to do so are the CSM, simply because they are a democratically voted bunch ... you however are NOT.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:09:00 -
[90]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 13/07/2011 19:10:36 Edited by: Zey Nadar on 13/07/2011 19:10:02
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Mel Civire Why does some rich **** get special treatment for a novelty trinket over my implants?
I (personally) would argue that the difference is that your implants have in-game effects.
The whole point of the NEX store is to generate income. Non-destructible clothes are almost certainly revenue-optimal. And clearly, non-destructible items cannot be allowed to have in-game effects without breaking the sandbox.
Put all these things together and non-destructibility is the best route for sandbox purists, because it draws a line in the sand, so to speak.
Using CCP logic I would think that destructible clothes would force players to buy same clothes quickly again, netting CCP more money? Maybe up the price to 1000$ while were at it? Oh, wait, people buy these things?
Originally by: Luckytania
Non-destructible items break the RP immersion aspect of the game. Period.
Technically it doesn't since you can manufacture clothes anywhere..
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Kirkland Langue
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:20:00 -
[91]
I'll help the CSM out here.
The answer to all of your questions is
:money:
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Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 20:44:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Kirkland Langue I'll help the CSM out here.
The answer to all of your questions is
:money:
My question was, what total assets would Kirkland Langue freely give to me?
HABIT
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jackaloped
|
Posted - 2011.07.13 22:31:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Nerodon
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh
Originally by: Dante Marcellus
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
NAKED.
IN.
YOUR.
POD.
What about monocles?
Have you considered that maybe they are removable? Oh and, why isn't there any up in space?
Man, I'll say it again, you're really bad at trolling.
If you are naked in your pod then your clothes and monocles stay in the station you buy them in? Do you have buy more clothes in each station then?
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Galphram NefreX
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Posted - 2011.07.13 23:39:00 -
[94]
CSM's are a complete waste of time, I support the complete vote of no confidence of these people.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:03:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Technically it doesn't since you can manufacture clothes anywhere..
Please look up the word technically.
Technically, the items are immersion breaking because they are able to transport between stations with no consequence.
Everything else people are making up about paying for a license, clothing is easy to make (wtf says who?) is not fact, therefore it cannot be "technical".
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:49:00 -
[96]
The second these Nex items went on the player market, they have become a item just like any in the game. And should be treated as such.
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P42ALPHA
Gallente nul-li-fy Usurper.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:54:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Galphram NefreX CSM's are a complete waste of time, I support the complete vote of no confidence of these people.
+1
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Kirkland Langue
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Posted - 2011.07.14 06:38:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: Kirkland Langue I'll help the CSM out here.
The answer to all of your questions is
:money:
My question was, what total assets would Kirkland Langue freely give to me?
I guess, since you asked so nicely, that if you were to provide me with 2 Plexes, for the purposes of reactivating my main accounts, I would be able to contract over all of my stuff - as this account has nothing plus a bunch of PI materials that are sitting on planets. The unfortunate aspect of this is that I have no plans on logging in to this account, before it expires, just to see if I received the Plexes via contracts.
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TrimethylChromiumdioxide
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Posted - 2011.07.14 11:54:00 -
[99]
By the logic of good trebor all non game enhancing items should be indestructible. So I'd expect to see exotic dancers or anything non enhancement related to become indestructible as well. Right?
Come to think of it, despite the fact that I disagree in principle with the entire subscription + mt model for this game and the amount of resources that have been put into the development of the ingame store (rather than into the game where historically one would expect them to be applied), the only thing I'd ever even think of buying (if I could get cq to load) would be topless exotic dancers that danced in your cq. Realistically high res full body mechanic 24/7 bouncy booby exotic dancers that your entire corp could view.
Too bad they're changing age demographics (ala $OE) and it'll never happen. Right now there's nothing desirable being added to the game. It reeks of suits making game design decisions. When that happens, it's always game over.
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Em Sawa
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:01:00 -
[100]
You are naked in your pod, and your cloths are stored in the over head compartment, therefore move from place to place with you. When pod killed your pod insurance apart of your clone cost, covers small personal items like cloths and watches etc. There are we happy now, story explanation. Can we get over it yet. P.S. CCP is a business the job is to make money and grow, get used to it.
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:04:00 -
[101]
Ok i'll be the one to repeat CCP's mantra pre-incarna
"IF ITS ON THE MARKET AND PLAYER TRADEABLE ITS DESTROYABLE"
So wtf happened to clothing?
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BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:14:00 -
[102]
Hey now, leave the CSM alone.
They are under alot of stress by just finding out that wormhole space is actually 'null sec' and that ABC ores actually exist there to be mined.
This has disturbed Mittens and his muppets and must be delt with first. The null sec nap monkies feel that this will cut into the the profits of thier mining bots
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JamesCLK
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.14 19:25:00 -
[103]
Edited by: JamesCLK on 14/07/2011 19:34:34 Edited by: JamesCLK on 14/07/2011 19:32:53 I'm all for cheaper destructible NeX merchandise, for a lot of reasons. Mostly becuase this is EVE, and the universe doesn't give a flying frack about how much grief losing something expensive will cause. Here are some arguments, C is the critisism, A is the answer:
C: Servers will have unnesscesary load due to people removing their vanity clothes every time they undock. A: If CCP had actually done anything but copy-paste the character creator to make the character recustomiser, swapping clothes wouldn't be such a frackin' hassle. For instance, if putting on clothes was as simple as standing by the mirror, opening a container and dragging the clothes onto your avatar (similar to the dead functionality of dragging a module from your hangar onto your ship [not the fitting window] to fit said module) is an easier, and less hassleful experience for those who MUST have vanity items and do not wish to risk them.
C: What about the portaits then? People could buy a monocle, take the photo and resell it... A: Make the portrait photos auto update when you add time to your account as well as whenever you choose to do so (the recustomiser becomes a photo booth essentially). It even makes sense from an RP perspective (you sumbit a new passport photo when you update your liscence).
C: No one will buy the cheaper, destructible items because they don't do anything! A: The problem is that they DO do something. They are a status item - just like the 700$ sparkle poney tigers from WoW. CCP is underestimating just how attractive that kind of thing is to a lot of players. So here is another question, will I be refunded my 100$ Ishukone Watch Scorpion if it gets blown up?
C: ARGH! My PLEX market! A: Statistically, the vast majority of PLEX sell orders are in the quantity range of 1-2, which hints at that most people buy 2 PLEX, and either spend 1 on themselves (adding time to their account), and sell the other - or sell both. Sure, PLEX prices might go up a bit, but CCP will not let it get out of hand. And it WILL eventually stabilise again (I for one think that 360 million isk for a month's gametime is a bargain, and I'm not exactly the biggest ISK maker in the world).
For all arguments, there is a counter - until a certain pyramid invalidates said argument.
Back on topic... About time that another [Republic Fleet] Fireside(tail) Chat landed on grid.
I'm excited to hear about the Unified Service Layer (USL), and especially if it's going to be EVE Gate exclusive (would give people a propper reason to use the damn thing), especially if it would let the user change skills out of game (changeing skills from your smartphone would be the most useful thing ever).
Meeting minutes were, as always, the highlight of the month for me - lots of cool stuff. 0.0 really does need a revamp.
Footnote: I'd love to see Trebor play devil's advocate on this. |
Chandler Urandom
Native Freshfood
|
Posted - 2011.07.14 19:54:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow Edited by: Trebor Daehdoow on 12/07/2011 16:32:08 Given the events of recent days[...]
What has happened now? Been on vacation, so haven't been able to keep up. Anyone? I will also ask this: Did you think this was part of my post? |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.07.14 20:48:00 -
[105]
I'll be tuning in just to hear Mittani opening his mouth to speak about stuff he doesn't understand, watching the idiotic ideas of this CSM in horror as display their total lack of understanding of the game.
One sentence on how lowsec needs more attention, then the rest of the Summit spent on displaying total lack of economic sensibility rabbiting on about super veldspar and removing ABC from WH to boost nullsec industry?
Do any of the people on the CSM engage in any form of industry?
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.14 23:55:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Mara Rinn I'll be tuning in just to hear Mittani opening his mouth to speak about stuff he doesn't understand, watching the idiotic ideas of this CSM in horror as display their total lack of understanding of the game.
One sentence on how lowsec needs more attention, then the rest of the Summit spent on displaying total lack of economic sensibility rabbiting on about super veldspar and removing ABC from WH to boost nullsec industry?
Do any of the people on the CSM engage in any form of industry?
It isn't just about nullsec industry but making it so nullsec is it's own special independent 'game' in EVE and eventually we'll all be punished for not running out there through nerfs. Not working to make it more attractive or leave it as it is for those that want that kind of gameplay but nerf other parts of the game so null is the only place to do X,Y,Z.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:50:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Mara Rinn I'll be tuning in just to hear Mittani opening his mouth to speak about stuff he doesn't understand, watching the idiotic ideas of this CSM in horror as display their total lack of understanding of the game.
One sentence on how lowsec needs more attention, then the rest of the Summit spent on displaying total lack of economic sensibility rabbiting on about super veldspar and removing ABC from WH to boost nullsec industry?
Do any of the people on the CSM engage in any form of industry?
It isn't just about nullsec industry but making it so nullsec is it's own special independent 'game' in EVE and eventually we'll all be punished for not running out there through nerfs. Not working to make it more attractive or leave it as it is for those that want that kind of gameplay but nerf other parts of the game so null is the only place to do X,Y,Z.
sad but true
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Koba Kyogen
The Concordiat Concordiat Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.15 04:53:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: Yarrrrrhh You wrote that in school and it does not apply to the topic at hand. You have no clue about this.
I wrote that based on the experience of running a website using the model, a website that is still around and quite nicely profitable. And sorry to disappoint you, but not only was I not in school when I wrote it, but I had the benefit of 20 years of experience doing marginally relevant things like writing computer games and helping to create the Anime market in the US.
Bottom line: you are entitled to your opinion, but until you lay down some facts to support them, they are unlikely to convince anyone.
You, sir, are a raging SOE tool.
I wish you much misfortune.
Koba
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.[ |
Rosa Cardenalis
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 04:57:00 -
[109]
Nex clothes are fully destructable. Nex manufacturers however, understand the dangers that pod pilots face and when you buy them you get two sets. One for your current clone and one for your medical bay one.
When you get podded you get to claim an new replacement from the manufacturer, and that has to be shipped out at considerable cost and thats why the damn things are so expensive you are actually buying a lifetime's supply!
Implant manufacturers do not do it because the cost of a single implant would make it prohibative.
They don't show on the killmail because nothing on the podkill shows. But rest assured PVPers when you pop that pod you definately scortched that guys skirt!
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.15 10:32:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Rosa Cardenalis Nex clothes are fully destructable. Nex manufacturers however, understand the dangers that pod pilots face and when you buy them you get two sets. One for your current clone and one for your medical bay one.
When you get podded you get to claim an new replacement from the manufacturer, and that has to be shipped out at considerable cost and thats why the damn things are so expensive you are actually buying a lifetime's supply!
Implant manufacturers do not do it because the cost of a single implant would make it prohibative.
They don't show on the killmail because nothing on the podkill shows. But rest assured PVPers when you pop that pod you definately scortched that guys skirt!
Can I get a link to back this up as something beside an idea you came up with please?
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
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Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.07.15 13:02:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Ciar Meara on 15/07/2011 13:05:51
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I wrote that based on the experience of running a website using the model, a website that is still around and quite nicely profitable. And sorry to disappoint you, but not only was I not in school when I wrote it, but I had the benefit of 20 years of experience doing marginally relevant things like writing computer games and helping to create the Anime market in the US.
Bottom line: you are entitled to your opinion, but until you lay down some facts to support them, they are unlikely to convince anyone.
Really Trebor at what point exactly did you think that was even a little relevant. Lots of us have done "meaningfull" things in their lives, perhaps even more meaningfull then "writing computer games and helping to create the Anime market in the US".
Who knows some people here work for NATO or the EU, fund cancerresearch or even work at hospitals. Its time to get of your high horse that's actually a small pony from up here and get to grips with the fact that you need to do more then just rehash PR info. This goes for the rest of the CSM also.
Everything in eve can be destroyed, even nex items when they are in the hangar of your ship, thus they should also be destroyed when you lose your pod/ship and are wearing them.
0.0 isn't the most important thing in eve, it has become the most important thing because all the rest is broken with skewed reward/risk ratio's. We need to balance the whole of eve not just 0.0.
For instance:
Faction Warfare
Mining (get a decent mechanic, like reynir's 'deep sea trawling'/fishing idea)
Mission running (there has been some input on that front)
- Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
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AllYourBaseAre BelongToUs
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Posted - 2011.07.15 15:31:00 -
[112]
Why was this stickied?
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Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.07.15 16:33:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Rosa Cardenalis Nex clothes are fully destructable. Nex manufacturers however, understand the dangers that pod pilots face and when you buy them you get two sets. One for your current clone and one for your medical bay one.
When you get podded you get to claim an new replacement from the manufacturer, and that has to be shipped out at considerable cost and thats why the damn things are so expensive you are actually buying a lifetime's supply!
Implant manufacturers do not do it because the cost of a single implant would make it prohibative.
They don't show on the killmail because nothing on the podkill shows. But rest assured PVPers when you pop that pod you definately scortched that guys skirt!
You weren't aware that you get more than one set? Whenever you die your clone wakes up with the clothes not just once.
You also aren't aware that some implants actually are cheaper than nex clothing items. Then if you ran the total cost for a full outfit, shirt, jacket, boots, accessory etc it could easily be more than the implant cost.
CCP: It is nanobots! What about implants? CCP: Nanobots can't do implants! What about monocles? CCP: Those are different being that they go in your eye and cost so much cause you wouldn't want some cheap POS in your head like an implant that costs only a few dozen isk like inside your brain man! Right.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.07.16 06:46:00 -
[114]
i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Jonathan Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.16 08:01:00 -
[115]
My questions are:
Since Mittens is a goon and Touborg is a goon (and both spies to boot,) why doesn't that clear conflict of interest raise all kinds of warning flags with CCP?
Why is this council so deferential to Alex? He gets drunk, throws up, insults people, makes silly recommendations (such as the wh nerf,) makes it clear he has no interest in the game or the playerbase as a whole, only the interests of his alliance, and acts like he's the smartest guy in the room. (Please tell me he's not the smartest guy in the room.) Am I missing something?
What's being done about bots? If CCP has no plans to get rid of bots, could I please have a 'bot' button/module so that I can passively earn say 50M ISK/hr without doing anything? I don't think that would be very difficult to program, correct me if I'm wrong.
Those are enough questions, I guess. Obviously you're incapable of getting CCP to devote any more than the pitiful trickle of resources they devote to Internet Spaceships now so I take it that finished content is out, optional Incarna is out, a firm commitment on microtransactions is out, an apology from Hilmar is out ... trying to think of something constructive you guys have accomplished or might conceivably accomplish in the next 6 months ... nope, I guess there's nothing.
"I represent those who voted for me, not 'everyone'. Don't give me your entitled voter schtick ..." ~CSM Chair Mittens |
The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.07.16 08:30:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Jonathan Ferguson My questions are:
Since Mittens is a goon and Touborg is a goon (and both spies to boot,) why doesn't that clear conflict of interest raise all kinds of warning flags with CCP?
Why is this council so deferential to Alex? He gets drunk, throws up, insults people, makes silly recommendations (such as the wh nerf,) makes it clear he has no interest in the game or the playerbase as a whole, only the interests of his alliance, and acts like he's the smartest guy in the room. (Please tell me he's not the smartest guy in the room.) Am I missing something?
What's being done about bots? If CCP has no plans to get rid of bots, could I please have a 'bot' button/module so that I can passively earn say 50M ISK/hr without doing anything? I don't think that would be very difficult to program, correct me if I'm wrong.
Those are enough questions, I guess. Obviously you're incapable of getting CCP to devote any more than the pitiful trickle of resources they devote to Internet Spaceships now so I take it that finished content is out, optional Incarna is out, a firm commitment on microtransactions is out, an apology from Hilmar is out ... trying to think of something constructive you guys have accomplished or might conceivably accomplish in the next 6 months ... nope, I guess there's nothing.
excuse me, i don't throw up X(
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.16 08:41:00 -
[117]
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
Cool story bro.
______ GIGAR; >> The three priorities for CCP after launching Incarna will be
1)launching DUST 514, 2)launching World of Darkness 3)and continuing to improve on EVE. |
Ricochet Creed
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Posted - 2011.07.16 13:12:00 -
[118]
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
Weren't you voted in to represent the players? Or was that a lie so you could just get the game just the way YOU wanted it?
Are you really this big a douchebag in real life? Or just on the internet? Wow what an as shole.
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JamesCLK
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.16 14:34:00 -
[119]
Edited by: JamesCLK on 16/07/2011 14:33:59
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
I love you too Mittens!
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BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
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Posted - 2011.07.16 16:16:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Ricochet Creed
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
Weren't you voted in to represent the players? Or was that a lie so you could just get the game just the way YOU wanted it?
Are you really this big a douchebag in real life? Or just on the internet? Wow what an as shole.
You better watch it, or Mittens will get all rage(y) and accuse you of being part of The Tea Party or some vast right-wing conspiracy that threatens to take down his serious interwebs spaceship empire.
But then again, comments like his are what happens when you vote in a 'Man-Child'
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dgastuffz
Caldari Hell's Revenge
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Posted - 2011.07.16 18:01:00 -
[121]
mumble server still down ?
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Cooper Anderson Stewart
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.16 18:08:00 -
[122]
Originally by: BuckStrider
Originally by: Ricochet Creed
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
Weren't you voted in to represent the players? Or was that a lie so you could just get the game just the way YOU wanted it?
Are you really this big a douchebag in real life? Or just on the internet? Wow what an as shole.
You better watch it, or Mittens will get all rage(y) and accuse you of being part of The Tea Party or some vast right-wing conspiracy that threatens to take down his serious interwebs spaceship empire.
But then again, comments like his are what happens when you vote in a 'Man-Child'
I voted for trebor, and he has at least acted professional on the net and in his official paid capacity as csm. And yes csm are paid by the free year account which obligates them to rep all the players, including us whining forum residents. Our money spends just like the next player.
When i saw mittani tell someome to kill themself on twitter while acting as a player rep, he lost all credibility as a rep and is an embarrassment to whats being salvaged as a community. Mmorpg.com i believe it was even censored some of his unprofessional commentary coming out of the crisis meeting. Perhaps some Dale Carnegie reading is in order.
If you dont want the scrutiny dont take the lead and claim to speak for the whole community, pass it on to someone who acts as professional as the situation demands.
The kind of attitude he presents is perfectly fine for somethingaweful.com and it seems he is incapable of seperating the environments.
"CCP misjudged what type of customer is loyal to EVE, not an impulse shopper who want to stare in the mirror for hours, they hunt humans. Hours cloaked? Definately." Dr. Garamond Trebuchet |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.16 18:58:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Cooper Anderson Stewart
Originally by: BuckStrider
Originally by: Ricochet Creed
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
Weren't you voted in to represent the players? Or was that a lie so you could just get the game just the way YOU wanted it?
Are you really this big a douchebag in real life? Or just on the internet? Wow what an as shole.
You better watch it, or Mittens will get all rage(y) and accuse you of being part of The Tea Party or some vast right-wing conspiracy that threatens to take down his serious interwebs spaceship empire.
But then again, comments like his are what happens when you vote in a 'Man-Child'
I voted for trebor, and he has at least acted professional on the net and in his official paid capacity as csm. And yes csm are paid by the free year account which obligates them to rep all the players, including us whining forum residents. Our money spends just like the next player.
When i saw mittani tell someome to kill themself on twitter while acting as a player rep, he lost all credibility as a rep and is an embarrassment to whats being salvaged as a community. Mmorpg.com i believe it was even censored some of his unprofessional commentary coming out of the crisis meeting. Perhaps some Dale Carnegie reading is in order.
If you dont want the scrutiny dont take the lead and claim to speak for the whole community, pass it on to someone who acts as professional as the situation demands.
The kind of attitude he presents is perfectly fine for somethingaweful.com and it seems he is incapable of seperating the environments.
CSM are unpaid volunteers, unless you want to count free subscription as "pay"
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.16 19:10:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Galphram NefreX CSM's are a complete waste of time, I support the complete vote of no confidence of these people.
Thanks for sharing your well-reasoned, fact-supported opinion with us.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.16 19:28:00 -
[125]
Originally by: dgastuffz mumble server still down ?
this
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.16 19:36:00 -
[126]
There have been problems getting the mumble server working. It is up now, but DNS may not have propagated sufficiently.
If you are having trouble connecting, try using the IP address 75.101.186.255 instead of csm6.org
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Elzon1
Caldari Shadow Boys Corp Bloodbound.
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Posted - 2011.07.16 19:39:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow There have been problems getting the mumble server working. It is up now, but DNS may not have propagated sufficiently.
If you are having trouble connecting, try using the IP address 75.101.186.255 instead of csm6.org
That works, I am in I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD |
Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:07:00 -
[128]
Hmm. Just get a
[21:05:56] Server connection failed: The remote host closed the connection.
Default port appears to be 64738. Is that right? -- Representative, Light Speed Interactive A Media and PR Corporation of New Eden. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:15:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
False.
If I want to go to a Party in JITA and I'm in AMARR, I have to fly with my fancy clothes to get there. SO I do have a reason to buy the clothes and take them in space.
Unless I want to keep my clothes in one place, and buy a suit at every station, then I have to take my party clothes with me.
If I'm going out PVPing, I'm going to take out the $80 monocle, just like i don't take out my Panther everytime I want to go out for a stroll in a Rifter.
So yes, they should be destructible, and YES they should make it easier to switch clothes out.
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Velicia Tuoro
Light Speed Interactive
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Posted - 2011.07.16 20:15:00 -
[130]
Default Windows install also installs a backwards compat. version, which is only 1.1.x.... Doh :)
In now. -- Representative, Light Speed Interactive A Media and PR Corporation of New Eden. |
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The Great Destroyer
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:31:00 -
[131]
Can someone please walk me through how to connect?
I have tried using the IP address you provided. I have tried using csm6.org.
Mumble forces me to put a Port #, what port # should I put?
I am currently using the default one that came with Mumble version 1.2.3 (windows).
I keep getting connection timed out....
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Duckface Killah
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:44:00 -
[132]
Originally by: The Great Destroyer Can someone please walk me through how to connect?
I have tried using the IP address you provided. I have tried using csm6.org.
Mumble forces me to put a Port #, what port # should I put?
I am currently using the default one that came with Mumble version 1.2.3 (windows).
I keep getting connection timed out....
Yep, it "forces" you to "have a port" the same way a bicycle forces you to "have wheels"...
The OP says "default port", so let's assume it's the default port. The server doesn't seem to be answering though, so it's probably down for some reason.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:45:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Bloodpetal Edited by: Bloodpetal on 16/07/2011 20:19:36
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
False.
If I want to go to a Party in JITA and I'm in AMARR, I have to fly with my fancy clothes to get there. SO I do have a reason to buy the clothes and take them in space.
Unless I want to keep my clothes in one place, and buy a suit at every station, then I have to take my party clothes with me.
If I'm going out PVPing, I'm not going to take out the $80 monocle, just like I don't take out a Panther everytime I want to go out for a stroll in a Rifter.
So yes, they should be destructible, and YES they should make it easier to switch clothes out.
Maybe CCP will let you pay a premium price($20+ per item) for a license to have your clothes made at your location and available to you wherever you go, as well as clothing 'outfit slots' so you can save 20 or so then pay more money to save more fits. Neither are gamebreaking or required to play barbie in space dressup.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Corin en Daire
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Posted - 2011.07.16 21:45:00 -
[134]
[4:38 PM] Connecting to server csm6.org. [4:38 PM] Server connection failed: Connection timed out.
PING csm6.org (75.101.186.255): 56 data bytes Request timeout for icmp_seq 0 Request timeout for icmp_seq 1 Request timeout for icmp_seq 2
[4:39 PM] Connecting to server 75.101.186.255. [4:40 PM] Server connection failed: Connection timed out.
PING 75.101.186.255 (75.101.186.255): 56 data bytes Request timeout for icmp_seq 0 Request timeout for icmp_seq 1 Request timeout for icmp_seq 2 Request timeout for icmp_seq 3
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Last Star Fighter
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Posted - 2011.07.17 00:33:00 -
[135]
I EXPECT THIS FIRESIDE CHAT TO GO AS SMOOTHLY AS GETTING US THE MAY SUMMIT MINUTES. C/D?
***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
Kira Bellum
Amarr Schwarzwald Homeland
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Posted - 2011.07.17 00:56:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: AnzacPaul does csm know how vanity items survive being podkilled? Cause ccp wont answer my thread :(
They do this because if worn clothing was destructible, nobody would ever undock wearing any NEX-store goods.
And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
And if CCP decided to address this by making it easy to change clothes (so you had party clothes and work clothes), then apart from the occasional person who forgets to change clothes before undocking, you'd never have an opportunity to grief someone and blow up their monocle anyway.
AFAIK this will not apply to items like ship paintjobs, only to clothes and other bodily adornments.
I got to about page 3 of the responses and saw nothing but trolls with bad logic. So i'd just like to say i agree with this position and give you a +1
/inb4ccpalt
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Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 01:17:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow And because nullsec folks tend to be in danger of being podded, this means they would not buy fancy monocles, because they would always be putting them on and taking them off -- too much of a pain.
Yes, indeed. And we all know which "folks" are this CSM's sole raison d'etre, don't we...Oh wise, supremely clued-in people who didn't even know wormholes are -1.0-rated?
Don't we.
Tell me, what's it like being a joke? Does it rankle awhile and then stop, or does that little tingle of knowledge never quite go away?
Thank you, Treb, your answers, along with the minutes, are proving most...instructive.
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Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 01:23:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov Hybrids/Gallente, ja?
Nein.
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Last Star Fighter
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Posted - 2011.07.17 03:05:00 -
[139]
IS THERE A RECORDING OUT YET OR IS IT STILL GOING? I JUST PRAY IT IS NOT ANOTHER "THE MITTANI SHOW" LIKE THE LAST ONE. WHAT A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME THAT WAS. ***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
Tetragammatron Prime
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Posted - 2011.07.17 04:09:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Last Star Fighter IS THERE A RECORDING OUT YET OR IS IT STILL GOING? I JUST PRAY IT IS NOT ANOTHER "THE MITTANI SHOW" LIKE THE LAST ONE. WHAT A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME THAT WAS.
It is another hour or so of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
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Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 05:00:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Galphram NefreX CSM's are a complete waste of time, I support the complete vote of no confidence of these people.
+111111...1
Question is, is there such a procedure? And would it's results be honoured if invoked?
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Last Star Fighter
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Posted - 2011.07.17 05:07:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
Originally by: Last Star Fighter IS THERE A RECORDING OUT YET OR IS IT STILL GOING? I JUST PRAY IT IS NOT ANOTHER "THE MITTANI SHOW" LIKE THE LAST ONE. WHAT A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME THAT WAS.
It is another hour or so of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
REALLY? WOW. SOME PEOPLE NEVER LEARN.
CSM, DO THE REST OF THE UNIVERSE A FAVOR AND DON'T BOTHER WITH ANOTHER SO CALLED FIRESIDE CHAT WITH THE MITTANI. THERE IS ENOUGH BULL**** BEING SPREAD AROUND THAN TO SUBJECT US TO HIM DOING AUDIO ************ SPREADING LIES. ***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 05:13:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Mara Rinn I'll be tuning in just to hear Mittani opening his mouth to speak about stuff he doesn't understand, watching the idiotic ideas of this CSM in horror as display their total lack of understanding of the game.
One sentence on how lowsec needs more attention, then the rest of the Summit spent on displaying total lack of economic sensibility rabbiting on about super veldspar and removing ABC from WH to boost nullsec industry?
Do any of the people on the CSM engage in any form of industry?
It isn't just about nullsec industry but making it so nullsec is it's own special independent 'game' in EVE and eventually we'll all be punished for not running out there through nerfs. Not working to make it more attractive or leave it as it is for those that want that kind of gameplay but nerf other parts of the game so null is the only place to do X,Y,Z.
This is what you get when you vote in the entire god-damned ZeroSec RMT/Bot empire, chaired by a complete pants-on-head IMBECILE who revels in being a douchebag.
Good job, community, you've made me so proud!
(Don't blame me, I voted for Arden Elundul (sp? Whatev', you know, the Suddenly Ninjas guy))
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Gevlin
Minmatar Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 05:18:00 -
[144]
sorta a troll comment! (sorry!)
I hope there is A Fire side Chat on April 1 - and wonder what things the CSM could come up with and how many people would believe them.... till laughter breaks out. here we go again! |
Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 05:21:00 -
[145]
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
It's okay, we knew you were a completely clueless douche already. Back to Something Awful for you, mate, you and your fluffers are quite perfectly irrelevant here.
Pants-on head ret4rded c*nt.
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Lyrrashae
Minmatar Crushed Ambitions
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Posted - 2011.07.17 05:28:00 -
[146]
Originally by: BuckStrider But then again, comments like his are what happens when you vote in a 'Man-Child'
This.
Outstanding, community, well-done on letting that slip by you!
Don't blame me, I voted for the Suddenly Ninjas guy!
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Sarina Berghil
Minmatar New Zion Judge Advocate Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.17 06:04:00 -
[147]
Thanks to CSM for doing this. It was a very depressing and pessimistic performance, but thats not your fault and you are fighting an uphill battle. I got some interesting insights thanks for that. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.17 07:20:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
Originally by: Last Star Fighter IS THERE A RECORDING OUT YET OR IS IT STILL GOING? I JUST PRAY IT IS NOT ANOTHER "THE MITTANI SHOW" LIKE THE LAST ONE. WHAT A COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME THAT WAS.
It is another hour or so of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
I heard more of White Tree than Mittens, but I guess you'd rather have your pre-conceptions confirmed that actually listen to the facts.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Garekell
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 07:56:00 -
[149]
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.07.17 10:15:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime
It is another hour or so of Mittani performing auto-fellatio.
I heard more of White Tree than Mittens, but I guess you'd rather have your pre-conceptions confirmed that actually listen to the facts.
Was White Tree still crying over it's free trip to Iceland?
Originally by: CCP Zulu Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
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Dirk Decibel
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Posted - 2011.07.17 13:04:00 -
[151]
Anywhere we can get the recordings of this chat?
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 13:51:00 -
[152]
Edited by: dexington on 17/07/2011 13:52:26
Originally by: Dirk Decibel Anywhere we can get the recordings of this chat?
...
Originally by: Digital Messiah
http://www.mediafire.com/?a5r13so7dm79o7j
135 mb as .mp3 was 558 as .wav I didn't get the very beginning, I did however get almost the entire thing.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.17 14:09:00 -
[153]
just listening to the recording.
what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items? ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings? Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?
you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.
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Phil MacMannon
Fantastic Gymnastics
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Posted - 2011.07.17 16:09:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts just listening to the recording.
what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items? ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings? Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?
you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.
Convenience is a pandora's box though.
If you offer say "ammo delivery" for a small fee then that gets around the player economy *effort*, thats a no no.
Any service that could be offered in-game being conjured out of *thin air* that a player would have had to have provided himself, beforehand, breaks immersion.
That only leaves things that are outside the scope of player interaction, like "extra ship fittings". But the problem with things like that is avoiding the perception that you are simply out to grab as much cash out of the individual as possible for seemingly tiny improvements that should already be a part of your subscription.
Perceiving people as greedy is almost as poisonous as mechanics that break immersion.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.17 16:18:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts just listening to the recording.
what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items? ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings? Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?
you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.
Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.
The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.
Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Spacedust
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 20:25:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Smoking Blunts just listening to the recording.
what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items? ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings? Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?
you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.
Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.
The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.
Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.
EA did that with battlefield heroes (theres a video blog with statistic and everything before and after changes.
It work almost to good to be true for them, even the most rabbit haters where later spending way more cash then the avarage user. cba to find link thou sry, it was posted in eve general some weeks ago. But im 95% sure we will see this(read quote) as its logical from the numbers point of view to the company. Myself ill play aslong as i feel the space game weights up for the doll game. And im actually up 1 account since incarna :p.
But i dont have any illusion about where ccp is heading. Its the same way everyone else in the market is heading _everyone_.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.07.17 21:27:00 -
[157]
so much for the cold hard eve i feel in love with. looks like the road to hello kitty is on its way.
oh well, all good things must come to an end i guess.
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The Mittani
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:14:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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mvrck22
|
Posted - 2011.07.17 23:36:00 -
[159]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
With all the advocacy of social engineering and creating personal relations and all that angling, do you still think you have personal relevance in any of all this in the aftermath of repeatedly ending up in pant's down moments thanks to your CCP brosefs?
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Kerrisone
|
Posted - 2011.07.18 00:26:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Spacedust
Originally by: Kerrisone
Originally by: Smoking Blunts just listening to the recording.
what is ccp gonna sell us as convenience items? ships, fitted ships, ammo delivered any where, more ship saved fittings? Are they gonna **** anything in the player driven content?
you wouldnt answer that question and id like to know what they are gonna charge for.
Could be but more likely they will start with things that aren't obvious market workarounds want extra wallet divisions for your character, not corp, pay them, how about for the corp, pay them, how about not having to fly out to get a skill book pay them over and above the NPC sell price and it will spawn, want extra jump clones pay them, how about reducing the time to use a jumpclone by 4-6hrs pay them, how about increasing the standing/security you gain by a factor of 2 for 24-48hrs pay them.
The point is they will try stuff they think will gain traction with some people and be 'meh' to others always looking towards pushing the envelope to full pay for advantage aka p2w. They might not introduce p2w for a while but when Dust514 enters it will have pay for advantage and that is the beginning of the conversion to bring it into EVE if it isn't already here by then. Just as PLEX turned out to be the seed that brought 'mt' into EVE for all the good it was supposed to do it will always be the progenitor of MT in EVE.
Dust514 will be the point we mark when EVE had some claim of not being p2w and when it no longer did for all those that understand what and how plex works of course not the 'plex is pay to win'. The people who think like that are okay or say 'meh' to more mt and pay for advantage because they are not cognisant of the difference just as CCP hopes with their ideas that skirt the fine edge to appear to not be gamebreaking or have loose ties to the market to mask the p2w aspects.
EA did that with battlefield heroes (theres a video blog with statistic and everything before and after changes.
It work almost to good to be true for them, even the most rabbit haters where later spending way more cash then the avarage user. cba to find link thou sry, it was posted in eve general some weeks ago. But im 95% sure we will see this(read quote) as its logical from the numbers point of view to the company. Myself ill play aslong as i feel the space game weights up for the doll game. And im actually up 1 account since incarna :p.
But i dont have any illusion about where ccp is heading. Its the same way everyone else in the market is heading _everyone_.
I saw that and CCP wants MT period, when players in a majority said no to MT it didn't matter CCP wanted to put them in and they did.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1395464&page=1
When it comes time to build on them more with 'convenience' or 'non gamebreaking' advantages they will do it. The only thing they might consider is what is too far, EA seemed to do their research with surveys CCP seems to have looked to outside advisors or data from other games/companies than asking players or they did and I never got asked to take one. If they do it smart they'll find out what people want and what they don't want when it comes to MT, good and bad but they aren't going away. Eve as we knew it is over and all that is left is to play until it isn't good enough for you or move on to something else if you don't want to play something with an expiration date on it.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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Elisa Vilerum
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Posted - 2011.07.18 02:37:00 -
[161]
Who the hell vote for this failures anyway,CSM is god damn joke.
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JitaBUGz TheGreat
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.18 02:38:00 -
[162]
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
NO one gives one **** about your opinion. So u read up on worm holes yet, so you dont look like a total idiot next time u talk about them?
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Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.18 03:45:00 -
[163]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
Predictable... I raise a concern about your behavior as so-called lead of the CSM, and you lash out like a child. Skip any further political office... not for you I am afraid. Especially since you consider your constituents only those people belonging to the 'mittens club'. The obvious 0.0 slant of the last two (and only) fireside chats make that obvious despite what other CSM members have tried to say. Your legacy I am afraid is ruining any progress the CSM has made over many years in legitimizing itself.
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Last Star Fighter
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Posted - 2011.07.18 06:08:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Garekell Your legacy I am afraid is ruining any progress the CSM has made over many years in legitimizing itself.
YOUR ONLY NOW REALIZING HIS AGENDA?
EVER SINCE CSM 5 WENT FOR THE JUMP BRIDGE NERF, THE MITTANI HAS BEEN HELL BENT TO DISMANTLE ANY CREDIBILITY THE CSM HAS WITH THE PUBLIC. ANY POSSIBLE IDEA OR CHANGE THAT WOULD HURT HIS GOONIES AND HOW THEY OPERATE HE IS AGAINST EVEN IF IT'S WHAT IS BEST FOR THE GAME AS A WHOLE.
HE RUNS AROUND TELLING PEOPLE TO COMMITED SUICIDE AND DIE IN REAL LIFE. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK HE GIVES A **** ABOUT EVE, MUCH LESS THE CSM?
***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.18 08:59:00 -
[165]
Edited by: J Kunjeh on 18/07/2011 08:59:34
Originally by: The Mittani
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
Really? Typical politician...greasing the hands that feed. I understood that the CSM's job was to represent the ENTIRE player base to CCP? Hmmm...let me see...I found this in the Evelopedia:
The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the ôgreatest good for the greater player baseö. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP.
Notice that it doesn't say "greatest good for the Chairman's constituency". ~Gnosis~ |
Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.07.18 10:05:00 -
[166]
Originally by: The Mittani
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes soz m8~
Then you are in the wrong place mate. - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
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ADMIRALPLANET DOMINATOR
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Posted - 2011.07.18 10:34:00 -
[167]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
That's rich, coming from you.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.18 12:02:00 -
[168]
Originally by: The Mittani your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
This pretty much sums up why most players can't be arsed to care about the CSM, and why many hope the CSM loose what little power they have. In the end it would be better if the devs and designers made the decisions, and not a group of players who are willing break the parts of the game they don't play to improve on the parts they do play.
Even with the recent bad decisions made by CCP, i feel they are doing a better job, then the CSM, trying to improve the game for all players.
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Kerrisone
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Posted - 2011.07.18 12:12:00 -
[169]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: The Mittani your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
This pretty much sums up why most players can't be arsed to care about the CSM, and why many hope the CSM loose what little power they have. In the end it would be better if the devs and designers made the decisions, and not a group of players who are willing break the parts of the game they don't play to improve on the parts they do play.
Even with the recent bad decisions made by CCP, i feel they are doing a better job, then the CSM, trying to improve the game for all players.
I'd say that his sentiment is what will fuel such feelings for CSM6 and beyond, the work done by CSM5 tossed aside in part due to his antics and the CSM as a whole 'going' along with the join statement BS.
Also you are aware that the CSM doesn't make the decisions they have a voice that CCP will listen to but ultimately the decisions are CCP's not the CSM's. The CSM will try to push the issues they unite behind and that is it CCP listens and ignores them or puts some effort into working on their ideas in whatever capacity they feel is correct.
I disagree they are doing a good job in this instance both CCP and CSM are failing hard, CCP's just been doing it much longer cause CSM gets recycled every term and this one is pretty much a load with few less than stellar exceptions.
Originally by: Ghoest Ill watch what you do not what you say.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.07.18 12:18:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Kerrisone Also you are aware that the CSM doesn't make the decisions they have a voice that CCP will listen to but ultimately the decisions are CCP's not the CSM's. The CSM will try to push the issues they unite behind and that is it CCP listens and ignores them or puts some effort into working on their ideas in whatever capacity they feel is correct.
yes, even if it wasn't what i said, i meant the decision making process. Anyways if they CSM had zero influence on the direction CCP is developing eve, it would be pointless to have the CSM.
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Alexandra Alt
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Posted - 2011.07.18 13:06:00 -
[171]
I have this question lingering around for quite sometime and this seems to be the right place to ask it given the context.
From EVE wikipedia the scope of the CSM:
"The purpose of the CSM is to represent society interests to CCP. This requires active engagement with the player community to master EVE issue awareness, understanding, and evaluation in the context of the ôgreatest good for the greater player baseö. The scope of issues is restricted only to EVE, its ongoing development, and limited meta (out-of-game) issues which have direct relevance to the EVE universe. It is important to keep in mind that the CSM will not have formal powers within CCP, they will have a voice inside CCP."
Now, from what I understand in this statement, the CSM is a group of people which express the player base interests to CCP, elaborating a little bit more on the perception I get, the CSM in a very frontal and crude form, are the link between CCP and the player base interesets in order to achieve a common ground of agreement, but unfortunately, what I've been reading through all this forum/tweets/mumble recording, is nothing more than a group of people with their own personal interests (CSM) mostly disregarding the player base interests (or the majority of them, since I see very little feedback request from the general player base in order to understand the player base opinions/interests) and imposing their personal views/interests and/or agenda.
Now I don't have any issues with voting people for their interests and opinions, as long as it is stated and explicity declared like a real political party with an agenda very well defined on prior to voting for the player base to choose what 'agenda' or 'game political side' they're voting for, but I was sold (or have been) that the CSM is the player base spokesman, and not a party with it's own political agenda.
I have no issue whatsoever with the CSM having their own interests and views of the game, I do have issues though if they are our interests 'spokesman' and they impose their own interests disregarding the player base, I'm also fully aware that there will always be people against something, granted, but I haven't seen many statements from the CSM with the tone of 'I might not agree with it, but the majority of the player base whishes this that I have to express this as the player base interest' instead, only the 'I don't care about this so CCP can decide whatever' or the imposition of CSM interests on to CCP with little or very limited player base reasearch about the issue.
Anyway, the real question is, what is CSM supposed to be after all ?
Best regards,
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.18 13:17:00 -
[172]
Listened to the Fireside Chat recording and enjoyed it. It was nice to hear a variety of voices from the CSM this time, rather than just the one Pretentious Douchebag hogging the stage.
I was at first content with our new CSM chairman, but more and more I just cringe at the fact that he's the public face of this important group. Sir, I pray that you find yourself with a hellish job that requires you to work 80 hours a week and leaves no time for Eve, forcing you to resign and hand the reigns over to Trebor, who is far better suited for the role.
I must say though, Mittens has improved considerably from the last Fireside Chat...he mostly dropped the insulting and childish word r-tarded from his vocabulary for this call. Kudos. ~Gnosis~ |
Dougal Regyri
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Posted - 2011.07.18 15:54:00 -
[173]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
what is quite funny if someone in a REAL political movement made a stupid comment like this his resignation would be expected. It seems to me that your ego has far far exceeded your actual position.
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Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.18 16:32:00 -
[174]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
So are you saying that you don't represent yourself then? ... lol
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Waveism
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Posted - 2011.07.18 18:06:00 -
[175]
Darius III The Fair for CSM
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Learath
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Posted - 2011.07.18 19:14:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Dougal Regyri
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
what is quite funny if someone in a REAL political movement made a stupid comment like this his resignation would be expected. It seems to me that your ego has far far exceeded your actual position.
And 70% of Eve players support reducing refine rates by 10%. |
Pavel Bidermann
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Posted - 2011.07.18 20:03:00 -
[177]
There is no limit to the Mittani's ego. That's just how he is. He really thinks quite highly of himself. Sadly, that makes for a very poor representative.
All that aside, I would think this is the last CSM. There is no credibility left. Without that there's no sense of representation and any work performed is seen as just an extension of CCP. Even though the CSM may have the best intentions they are constantly undermined by CCP so they really arenÆt doing anything other than PR stunts. Too bad because it was yet another great idea sunk by CCPÆs mismanagement. Of course, the CSM at some point may want to stop playing along. It may be a bit too late for them though. A lot of damage has been done.
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Uearel Atram
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Posted - 2011.07.19 04:57:00 -
[178]
Sure is drama queens ITT. |
Garekell
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Posted - 2011.07.19 05:35:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Uearel Atram Sure is drama queens ITT.
In a way yes but not the way you mean. When people care they get a bit dramatic. Nature of the thing really. Dramatic doesn't = negate it.
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Kirkland Langue
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Posted - 2011.07.19 06:38:00 -
[180]
Let me see if I understand this correctly:
1) CSM offers a fireside chat with the playerbase to try and address questions/concerns they may have 2) Playerbase asks ONE questions 3) Chairman of CSM says he doesn't care about that issue and doesn't care what the playerbase thinks.
Did I miss anything here? What kind of bad joke is this? Shrug, account expires in 2-3 weeks then I'll stop posting. Wait till some point in the future when CCP can be arsed to put some effort into EVE instead of barbies.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2011.07.19 11:48:00 -
[181]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Garekell
Originally by: The Mittani i don't really give a **** about vanity items being destructible or not, sorry~
WOW. I 'get' that you think you are edgy and hip in some sarcastic profane fashion, but as a player elected representative, you fail. It's not about you deciding what the game should be for everyone, it's about you being professional and trying to represent everyone as you were elected to do.
You do/say things like this then expect any respect?
your respect is meaningless, and i only represent my constituents - not crybabies with entitlement complexes
soz m8~
Unfortunately, your comment is meaningless as you don't understand what the word 'constituents' means.
Hint: it doesn't mean 'those who voted for me' and does, by its nature, include the crybabies with entitlement complexes.
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Bob N'eve
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Posted - 2011.07.19 21:59:00 -
[182]
High Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes Low Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes Null Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes
The circle is complete.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.19 22:22:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Bob N'eve High Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes Low Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes Null Sec dweller = crybabies with entitlement complexes
The circle is complete.
Good stuff. I just had flashes of Elton John in glitter-pumps and a peacock feather hat jamming away on his piano. ~Gnosis~ |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.07.20 15:29:00 -
[184]
Is there an audio clip of this that can be streamed/downloaded?
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Last Star Fighter
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Posted - 2011.07.20 21:37:00 -
[185]
State of the Goonion and CSM Fireside Chat audio clip is in fact the same file? c/d ***SPACESHIPS > ROBOTS*** |
Ineka
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Posted - 2011.07.25 22:09:00 -
[186]
Well, hybrids are going to keep sucking for a looooooooong time, makes only a few years but we need to get the decade so something is done.
For the meanwhile play amarr or minmatar
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Ender Black
Lone Star Exploration
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Posted - 2011.07.27 03:42:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Bagehi Is there an audio clip of this that can be streamed/downloaded?
You can stream the fireside chat from http://www.podgoo.com. Just click on the link under my awesome banner.
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True Trade
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Posted - 2011.07.29 08:11:00 -
[188]
How come the only gallente topic is E-war!
You really didnt think hybrids might be more of an issue?
Please, please, please explain
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.31 22:01:00 -
[189]
Originally by: True Trade How come the only gallente topic is E-war!
You really didnt think hybrids might be more of an issue?
Please, please, please explain
Baby steps, dude, baby steps...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Sick Gangster
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Posted - 2011.08.10 12:34:00 -
[190]
I you don't mind terribly I really would like an explanation as to why hybrids were taken off the voting list.
The obvious answer is, that you knew it would get the attention the issue deserves and have decided not to act on it anyway. Why that is remains unknown.
This is just my personal reasoning, but I am sure many people wonder and CSM really do owe us an explanation, since obviously they are asking us to be patient/give up on the matter.
CSM White tree were even voted in on the gallente issue, so please voise your thoughts.
Please TALK TO US
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