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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Onslaughtor
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
11
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Posted - 2012.09.20 22:48:00 -
[361] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Julius Foederatus wrote:So again I ask, are you guys going to change the penalties for armor rigs/plates to try and balance out the game? Or are we just going to have the same dynamic we have now with slightly different hulls? Last time they tried to do it, they get such a shitload of tears and rage that they just retreat in fear. Hopefully, more people are supporting the HML nerf, but that is for another thread.
Its a buff i tell you. Just wait till it hits the test server. (to clarify, HMLs get a tiny nerf. all other missiles are getting a buff.)
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
750
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Posted - 2012.09.20 23:08:00 -
[362] - Quote
Quote:Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(-175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Bold the important part.
Not like if Thorax was known for it's ability to fit 1600 plates making it a nice suicide ship or awesome Rails fittings/dps on it. Tracking bonus on this hull it's probably the worst bonus you guys could think about, fix the guns first, eventually give it a rof bonus. This means Thorax is meant for rails, and fit short range guns on it means a wasted bonus. Well nothing says we have to fit blasters on it but then I look at Vexor and think about drones and smartbombs...
Ruppy all the way :sad panda: brb |
Songbird
61
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Posted - 2012.09.21 00:06:00 -
[363] - Quote
What's the deal with the navy versions of these (naturally there's no navy thorax but ya know what I mean) |
Glary Crazy
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
3
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Posted - 2012.09.21 09:49:00 -
[364] - Quote
Serious question to CCP Fozzie;
Even though the Omen has a ROF bonus/Cap use bonus and i'm guessing the Maller will have a Damage bonus/Resist bonus, your aware the Omen will probally be ignored as while sure the cap bonus is ok, you have a better tank and similiar DPS on the Maller, it really doesn't fit for an attack ship. Why not consider an optimal range bonus so people actually consider using it?
Serious question, not a splergy shitpost like most of the thread. |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
6
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Posted - 2012.09.21 10:12:00 -
[365] - Quote
Quote:Serious question to CCP Fozzie;
Even though the Omen has a ROF bonus/Cap use bonus and i'm guessing the Maller will have a Damage bonus/Resist bonus, your aware the Omen will probally be ignored as while sure the cap bonus is ok, you have a better tank and similiar DPS on the Maller, it really doesn't fit for an attack ship. Why not consider an optimal range bonus so people actually consider using it?
Serious question, not a splergy shitpost like most of the thread.
Well without the cap bonus it will be complete useless in fleet fights. Out of cap within 1 or 2 mins. What to do in 8 or 10 mins fleet fights then? I had enough problems to fire long enough with a coercer in fleet. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
305
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:18:00 -
[366] - Quote
When will CCP realize that speed is worth more then signature radius, just cut the armor rig penalty in half already. |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
6
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:20:00 -
[367] - Quote
Quote:When will CCP realize that speed is worth more then signature radius, just cut the armor rig penalty in half already.
Agree completely with that. |
Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
465
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Posted - 2012.09.21 12:58:00 -
[368] - Quote
Nalha Saldana wrote:When will CCP realize that speed is worth more then signature radius, just cut the armor rig penalty in half already.
In a 800mm RT plated Omen with 3 trimarks, this would only make a small difference. From 1239 m/s to about 1320 m/s. Unplated and unrigged it goes 1500 m/s. |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
306
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:03:00 -
[369] - Quote
Takeshi Yamato wrote:Nalha Saldana wrote:When will CCP realize that speed is worth more then signature radius, just cut the armor rig penalty in half already. In a 800mm RT plated Omen with 3 trimarks, this would only make a small difference. From 1239 m/s to about 1320 m/s. Unplated and unrigged it goes 1500 m/s.
Thats no small difference. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
362
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:49:00 -
[370] - Quote
There should be more thought going into the choice of rigs, rather than just HP rigs on everything. Forcing a choice between EHP and mobility is good design, so speed penalties on trimarks should not only be retained but also extended to Extender and Purger rigs. Altering to an agility penalty would probably also work though.
Active-tanking rigs should get no penalty; resist rigs should get either no penalty or a light one, sig radius would probably work. |
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Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
8
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:56:00 -
[371] - Quote
Quote:There should be more thought going into the choice of rigs, rather than just HP rigs on everything. Forcing a choice between EHP and mobility is good design, so speed penalties on trimarks should not only be retained but also extended to Extender and Purger rigs. Altering to an agility penalty would probably also work though.
Active-tanking rigs should get no penalty; resist rigs should get either no penalty or a light one, sig radius would probably work.
Active tanking rigs no penalty???? Actually minmatar have the best tech1 bc (lets not talk about tech2) with asb cyclone (oh yeah I remeber that a fleet of approx 14 cruisers and destroyers couldnt kill it at that gate) and oh oh.... ever tried to kill an asb maelstrom or asb vargur? Well I remember that 4 cynabals 2 vagabonds other cruisers and frigates needed about 5 minutes for ONE asb Maelstrom. Shield tanking is actually completely superior to armor tanking. We would need first a fix here. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
362
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Posted - 2012.09.21 13:57:00 -
[372] - Quote
You are talking about known problems with ASBs, not problems with rig penalties.
ASBs aren't really active tanking mods anyway, they're effectively buffer mods. |
Exterminatus Illexis
Belkan Munitions Plant
0
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Posted - 2012.09.21 14:54:00 -
[373] - Quote
I very much approve of this, I have long thought the Caracal needed just that kind of buff.
I would say do the same thing to the Drake, I realize this is not the proper thread for saying this, and nerf its passive tanking abilities a bit. The drake can effectively permanent passive tank two Megathrons, that's what makes it OP not any of the missile crap people are rambling about.
Now back on topic, each race should have a more specialized outlook on this. Minmatar should be speed/kiting, so maybe give that a microwarp/afterburner buff. Amarr has always been armor tanking, so give it maybe a resist bonus and a rep bonus to make up for the Omen's almost always pathetic tank level. Thorax looks about perfect, in my opinion. And Caracal, like someone else said earlier, should have an explosion velocity buff and the missile speed buff should be lowered to around 7% ish. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
27
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Posted - 2012.09.21 15:18:00 -
[374] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:ASBs were a fundamentally bad idea and Eve would be better off removing them entirely and looking at other ways to make true active tanks stand up better in a neut-heavy environment. Things like better synchronisation of cap booster and repper cycles, or reducing Nos fitting requirements and increasing their drain amount.
How about active tanking that isn't 100% reliant on cap boosters? Having to dock up all the time is bad. Nos should be way better though yeah. It's supposed to be a good defense against neuts, but it only actually drains half the cap/sec. The short duration is helpful, but typically means you can have a very small amount of cap rather than being completely capped out. |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2260
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Posted - 2012.09.21 16:08:00 -
[375] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:Well, I've been thinking about the Omen in the way that I fly the Executioner nowadays. I wonder if it's possible with the new reduction in Beam PG I'll be able to fly a full rack of Heavy Beam II's and nano around at long range? Heavy beams reach out to 54 KM unbonused.
I see attack cruiser skirmishing (or at least trying to), the the ewar ones doing their thing and the combat cruisers brawling. So what if these don't have the greatest tanks? They're not supposed to. T1 Logi can reach most engagement ranges well.
I think we need to not look at ships in a 1v1 situation and see them working together.
This concept works with the Phantasm, but the Phantasm gets a tracking bonus. I'm not sure how well it'll work with the Omen, but it's about the only way I'll be flying one. The Armor fits are hilariously bad and the pulse fits are just too close ranged for the minor advantage over ships like the Thorax and Stabber (if it even has an advantage at all).
I'll try to EFT this when I get some time... which is sadly going to be a while since it's crunch time and we're nearing release date on our next game. \o/
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Sgt Napalm
Creative Cookie Procuring Brushie Brushie Brushie
6
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:22:00 -
[376] - Quote
It would appear that the Thorax is being set up for modules which currently do not exist in the game. Interesting. |
MIrple
BSC LEGION Tactical Narcotics Team
119
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Posted - 2012.09.21 17:26:00 -
[377] - Quote
Sgt Napalm wrote:It would appear that the Thorax is being set up for modules which currently do not exist in the game. Interesting.
Can you expand on this line of thinking? Are you referring to the Micro Jump Drive? |
John Nucleus
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.09.21 19:23:00 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Omen: Cruiser skill bonuses: 10% bonus to Medium Energy Turret capacitor use 5% bonus to Medium Energy Turret rate of fire
Am I right to think that a 25% bonus to the rate of fire increase the capacitor needs of turrets by 25% making the 50% bonus to cap just a 25% bonus?? Wouldn't it be better to just have a damage bonus instead? |
Glary Crazy
Empyrean Warriors The Obsidian Front
3
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Posted - 2012.09.22 00:51:00 -
[379] - Quote
Scrublords post in place of CCP, gg right there.
Anyway, back to serious question time to CCP, considering the hull literally has a moot bonus compared to other hulls, have you guys seriously considered the idea of simply lowering cap use by a marginal amount, nothing huge, still make them use cap but instead of a cap related bonus which your doing away with on the Thorax for example, offer something useful. By your own logic thats how it *should* be. Why not fix that while your designing the bonuses? Makes sense doesn't it, hell, doesn't even need to be cap, tracking would do. |
Zarnak Wulf
Imperial Outlaws
573
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Posted - 2012.09.22 01:24:00 -
[380] - Quote
I am curious - how fast would each one go with a MWD? Just as a comparison, assume no armour tank. |
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
74
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Posted - 2012.09.22 01:40:00 -
[381] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Bold the important part.
Not like if Thorax was known for it's ability to fit 1600 plates making it a nice suicide ship or awesome Rails fittings/dps on it. Tracking bonus on this hull it's probably the worst bonus you guys could think about, fix the guns first, eventually give it a rof bonus. This means Thorax is meant for rails, and fit short range guns on it means a wasted bonus. Well nothing says we have to fit blasters on it but then I look at Vexor and think about drones and smartbombs...
Ruppy all the way :sad panda:
The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.
The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad.
TrouserDeagle wrote:How about active tanking that isn't 100% reliant on cap boosters? Having to dock up all the time is bad. Nos should be way better though yeah. It's supposed to be a good defense against neuts, but it only actually drains half the cap/sec. The short duration is helpful, but typically means you can have a very small amount of cap rather than being completely capped out.
This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal. |
Krell Kroenen
Miners In Possession Brothers of Apocrypha.
32
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Posted - 2012.09.22 04:07:00 -
[382] - Quote
The single token drone on the Stabber is quaint but rather superfluous. The starter frigates have one to give new pilots a taste of the drone interface. (or lack there of) But I would imagine that by the time they step in to a cruiser the training wheels could go ahead and come off.
Why don't you just go ahead and remove it. |
4IN1
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.09.22 06:27:00 -
[383] - Quote
Whit the change to Caracal, what does that mean for Caracal navy issue? Because after the change all advantages that its navy issue have is 1 more launcher slot (that deal more damage).
CCP: Ambition but rubbish
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
752
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Posted - 2012.09.22 09:39:00 -
[384] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.
The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad.
If you fly Thorax with dps drones I understand your need for + tracking to kill the pesky frigate pointing you, however I'm not convinced you'll ever touch it when said frigate is orbiting your Thorax at +15 and over 2km sec. However if you had some ECM drones you would probably feel better Just a different point of view, of course.
Blasters being the highest tracking weapon system with T2 long range ammo adding +25% tracking tells me the tracking bonus on the hull makes it a rail platform. You will not hit better frigates at 15/20 pointing you, this tracking bonus is not what you need to get frigates, you need ecm drones or better drone skills.
brb |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
192
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Posted - 2012.09.22 10:22:00 -
[385] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:The tracking bonus along with 4 mids will make the thorax a bloody frig killing machine.. Which is important if you're roaming in low sec since getting killed by one frig is rather depressing.
The tracking bonus is great, and not just for rails. Stop being bad. If you fly Thorax with dps drones I understand your need for + tracking to kill the pesky frigate pointing you, however I'm not convinced you'll ever touch it when said frigate is orbiting your Thorax at +15 and over 2km sec. However if you had some ECM drones you would probably feel better Just a different point of view, of course. Blasters being the highest tracking weapon system with T2 long range ammo adding +25% tracking tells me the tracking bonus on the hull makes it a rail platform. You will not hit better frigates at 15/20 pointing you, this tracking bonus is not what you need to get frigates, you need ecm drones or better drone skills.
You do realise that Ion Blasters + Null hit out to 5.3km + 7km and you can hit out to falloff x2 which means a total possible range of 19km. You could even put a Tracking Computer into that additional mid slot for 6km + 9km (total 24km with x2 fall off).
You also have the option of using web drones (yes lol, web drones. They really need to be more useful) or strapping the new OP mod which is the Tracking Disruptor on. Means no frig can hit you at 24 km even with missiles probably |
Uris Vitgar
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.09.22 12:16:00 -
[386] - Quote
There is one other implication of a tracking bonus. It means you're more able to use void against targets of your own size |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
30
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Posted - 2012.09.22 13:32:00 -
[387] - Quote
Liking these changes EXCEPT why in gods name do you guys insist on giving Minmatar ships missiles? It just makes them worse. Drop a hard point/high altogether and give the stabber 5 guns instead of four and **** off the missiles. It just means Minmi pilots have to train two complete weapons systems AND support skills to get the best out of the ship.
Just get rid of all split weapons systems. It makes no sense, it's annoying and makes no one happy. Please, pretty please. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
498
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Posted - 2012.09.22 15:08:00 -
[388] - Quote
Akturous wrote:Liking these changes EXCEPT why in gods name do you guys insist on giving Minmatar ships missiles? It just makes them worse. Drop a hard point/high altogether and give the stabber 5 guns instead of four and **** off the missiles. It just means Minmi pilots have to train two complete weapons systems AND support skills to get the best out of the ship.
Just get rid of all split weapons systems. It makes no sense, it's annoying and makes no one happy. Please, pretty please. I thought those two extra slots were for energy neutralizers to pwn tackle frigs and to quickly neut out blaster hulls? |
Lili Lu
465
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Posted - 2012.09.22 15:08:00 -
[389] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: This, fitting at least one repper on a cruiser really should be a valid choice.. As it is it really isn't which is VERY pirate unfriendly since we often need to travel under GCC which means needing to rep up a lot. Even if it wasn't for that it would still be nice for reppers being a valid choice for a ship with no tanking bonus simply because you often can't dock for a long time while roaming and not being able to repair up is really not ideal. Fitting an active armor repper will always be sad joke in comparison to active shield considering the advantages of active shield mods and now the ASBs. If you fit buffer and one repper for the after fight repping you are sacrificing on your buffer while the reper won't help much in a fight. Even with a 10% repper bonus you need two reppers to make it viable tactic for combat, and if you do that you need a cap injector and of course the mwd and whoops where did my grid go to fit any guns worth mentioning.
The after fight mechanic you seek would actually be better served by giving the regenerative membranes and platings a true regenerative component in addition to the raw hp bonus. It could be a very slow regen, nothing like a shield regen, but a regen none the less. So you could go ss for a while (tens of minutes) and have armor damage very slowly repair. This would boost some modules that see no use except maybe on a supercapital. And it would address the problem you raise. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormhole Holders
75
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Posted - 2012.09.22 15:12:00 -
[390] - Quote
Even with this changes attack cruisers still don't fulfil any role that Battlecruisers don't.
You have to diversify them by the purpose, not cost or power, |
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