Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 35 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 06:11:00 -
[991] - Quote
I know, hence the "falloff" term. DPS goes down the slop as one reaches the edge. Big question is if the Stabber was supposed to get a decent DPS in the first place or not. It doesn't look like it was suppose to.
I know people won't like what I will be saying here either, but let's not forget artillery could be an interesting subject in terms of Volley. Yes, Rupture does this better too, but let's just keep in mind of a cruiser that can come and go thanks to speed. The actual volley may be better than the already-craptastic-dps. One could use close range ammo and still trust the extra falloff range. It is not a solution, nor it is that better, but it will be a fun attribute to see. At least we're not just narrowed down to the same old Stabbabond fit.
Nonetheless. DPS is not everything, and when it is that lacking then bonuses should empower other fields.
Stabber is T1 so it can't be doing everything extraordinarily well. As much as I'd love it doing that much of an acceptable base DPS, it doesn't look like it is going to happen.
If there would be for a fifth turret, then yes, leaving ROF bonus would be fine. Having that highslot be removed for an extra med sounds plausible. Not sure how this would fit in to balance but it would still allow versatility.
Of course, there were hopes for a "better" Stabber than it was pre-tiericide, but in the end, it is an attack cruiser following whatever means of getting in and out fast.
Thing is also that it has been moved to this new aspect of Attack Cruiser, and not a Combat Cruiser (Rupture), so I'm guessing that is what causing the headaches with DPS. Although, I must say that a swap from ROF to DAMAGE would apply more uses for an artillery platform, but I am sure that people want to have a mini-Vagabond with ACs, not Arty. |
Alara IonStorm
3639
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 06:32:00 -
[992] - Quote
Okay Damage or Hyper Speed, they should have allowed a choice, one or the other.
Stabber: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret firing speed 7.5% bonus to Medium Projectile Turret falloff Slot layout: 5 H (-1), 4 M (+1), 5 L (+2), 4 Turrets Fittings: 715 PWG (+15), 340 CPU (+40) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1500(+15) / 1400(+150) / 1300(+11) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1200(+137.5) / 427.5s(+46.25s) / 2.8(+0.01) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 260(+34) / 0.5(+0.02) / 11400000 / 5.6s (+3.2) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 25 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 47.5km(+7.5) / 320(+15) / 5 Sensor strength: 13 Ladar (+3) Signature radius: 100 (-5) Cargo capacity: 420
Drones replace Missiles, Speed is lowered and you have a new low to dedicate to either Damage or Speed. Same principle as a Vega but watered down in Speed / Guns / Range / Tank and Dmg.
Boom.
[Stabber, Damage] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
[Stabber, Range] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
^ Note: Allows newer players to kite without T2 Guns w/ Barrage. A great thing when a lot of lower tier fixes are aimed at making Cruisers and Frigates new player friendly.
[Stabber, Nano] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
[Stabber, Paper Plane] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
[Stabber, Paper Tiger] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 07:44:00 -
[993] - Quote
Vayn Baxtor wrote:I know, hence the "falloff" term. DPS goes down the slop as one reaches the edge. Big question is if the Stabber was supposed to get a decent DPS in the first place or not. It doesn't look like it was suppose to.
I know people won't like what I will be saying here either, but let's not forget artillery could be an interesting subject in terms of Volley. Yes, Rupture does this better too, but let's just keep in mind of a cruiser that can come and go thanks to speed. The actual volley may be better than the already-craptastic-dps. One could use close range ammo and still trust the extra falloff range. It is not a solution, nor it is that better, but it will be a fun attribute to see. At least we're not just narrowed down to the same old Stabbabond fit.
Nonetheless. DPS is not everything, and when it is that lacking then bonuses should empower other fields.
Stabber is T1 so it can't be doing everything extraordinarily well. As much as I'd love it doing that much of an acceptable base DPS, it doesn't look like it is going to happen.
I will agree though that ROF is acceptable for being an Anti-Frigate platform -- but then again, that job seems to be now for the new tiericide'd Bellicose...
If there would be for a fifth turret, then yes, leaving ROF bonus would be fine. Having that highslot be removed for an extra med sounds plausible. Not sure how this would fit in to balance but it would still allow versatility.
Of course, there were hopes for a "better" Stabber than it was pre-tiericide, but in the end, it is an attack cruiser following whatever means of getting in and out fast.
Thing is also that it has been moved to this new aspect of Attack Cruiser, and not a Combat Cruiser (Rupture), so I'm guessing that is what causing the headaches with DPS. Although, I must say that a swap from ROF to DAMAGE would apply more uses for an artillery platform, but I am sure that people want to have a mini-Vagabond with ACs, not Arty.
Although I was against it at first, drones sound and are great, after all. Probably the only thing that would help without hurting other ships too much as drones are a standard.
Its a fair point, especially since the Bellicose will put out similar damage with hams at greater range, and has drones, and is almost as fast as the stabber, and provides ewar, and can use T2 ammo and choose damage type, and has more mids/lows (at loss of utility highs) and yet it is a Disruption cruiser
So in short i agree on more drones for the stabber, even if its just 3-4 lights, and since the Stabbers strength is its speed drone will help with those pesky tacklers.
|
Randy Wray
BLOOM. Verge of Collapse
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 10:32:00 -
[994] - Quote
These are all very valid points, I dont understand why the rupture has a double damage bonus instead of some manner of tank bonus while the attack ship is the one struggling to project any damage whatsoever, this is a complete failure from the rebalancing team IMO |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
184
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 12:14:00 -
[995] - Quote
Randy Wray wrote:These are all very valid points, I dont understand why the rupture has a double damage bonus instead of some manner of tank bonus while the attack ship is the one struggling to project any damage whatsoever, this is a complete failure from the rebalancing team IMO Vexor have 2 damage bonuses too...
Rick Rymes wrote:Its a fair point, especially since the Bellicose will put out similar damage with hams at greater range, and has drones, and is almost as fast as the stabber, and provides ewar, and can use T2 ammo and choose damage type, and has more mids/lows (at loss of utility highs) and yet it is a Disruption cruiser Almost as fast ?! You must be joking ! Base speed difference is 50m/s ! That's the difference between a destroyer and a frigate ! |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
148
|
Posted - 2012.12.02 12:57:00 -
[996] - Quote
The Stabbers speed advantage is crap. You can fit overdrives/nanos to any other tiericided cruiser and still get a better/faster ship. I like Alara's solution, though a focus on extra missile damage instead of drones again (we already have a huge powercreep in drone amount on the new cruisers).
Something like extending the ROF bonus to missiles and the falloff bonus to missile velocity, potentially with a higher prozentual value to account for the difficulty of boosting both weapon systems. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
186
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 01:27:00 -
[997] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:The Stabbers speed advantage is crap. You can fit overdrives/nanos to any other tiericided cruiser and still get a better/faster ship. I like Alara's solution, though a focus on extra missile damage instead of drones again (we already have a huge powercreep in drone amount on the new cruisers).
Something like extending the ROF bonus to missiles and the falloff bonus to missile velocity, potentially with a higher prozentual value to account for the difficulty of boosting both weapon systems. Oh yeah, you need 2 overdrive injectors on a Thorax or Bellicose (the second fastest cruisers after the Stabber) to be faster than the Stabber, but that's not considering mass for MWD speed ; and then, with two less low slots, just look what you can get from these cruisers...
The Stabber have the speed of a frigate !
In fact, it's an oversized frigate, with oversized weapons. Imagine a frigate with medium arties/AC : this is the Stabber. The Bellicose will fit the role of other races standard attack cruiser in fact, and the the Rupture will be the general purpose cruiser.
I'm sure there is some potential for this Stabber, it's only unconventional. |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 05:17:00 -
[998] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:Sheynan wrote:The Stabbers speed advantage is crap. You can fit overdrives/nanos to any other tiericided cruiser and still get a better/faster ship. I like Alara's solution, though a focus on extra missile damage instead of drones again (we already have a huge powercreep in drone amount on the new cruisers).
Something like extending the ROF bonus to missiles and the falloff bonus to missile velocity, potentially with a higher prozentual value to account for the difficulty of boosting both weapon systems. Oh yeah, you need 2 overdrive injectors on a Thorax or Bellicose (the second fastest cruisers after the Stabber) to be faster than the Stabber, but that's not considering mass for MWD speed ; and then, with two less low slots, just look what you can get from these cruisers... The Stabber have the speed of a frigate ! In fact, it's an oversized frigate, with oversized weapons. Imagine a frigate with medium arties/AC : this is the Stabber. The Bellicose will fit the role of other races standard attack cruiser in fact, and the the Rupture will be the general purpose cruiser. I'm sure there is some potential for this Stabber, it's only unconventional.
True, i'm sure its strength has always been its ability to GTFO whenever desired, hard to kill what you can't catch |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 06:01:00 -
[999] - Quote
Heh, since one can see the Stabber is an oversized frigate, I'm worried it might get the "Rifter" award after all. You know, kind of getting "fooled by tiericide" as how it happened to Rifter. As said before somewhere, Stabber has been adopted many times as a heavy tackler - like a frigate tackler, just with a lot more HP, and I'm guessing that is to stay, rather than hoping for great justice for Stabber DPS.
Speaking of which. I keep hearing Rifter was supposed to get something, then not via blue post -- unless it is to be a surprise.
|
Rick Rymes
Red Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 06:39:00 -
[1000] - Quote
Vayn Baxtor wrote:Heh, since one can see the Stabber is an oversized frigate, I'm worried it might get the "Rifter" award after all. You know, kind of getting "fooled by tiericide" as how it happened to Rifter. As said before somewhere, Stabber has been adopted many times as a heavy tackler - like a frigate tackler, just with a lot more HP, and I'm guessing that is to stay, rather than hoping for great justice for Stabber DPS.
Speaking of which. I keep hearing Rifter was supposed to get something, then not via blue post -- unless it is to be a surprise.
I hope so.... |
|
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
262
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 11:46:00 -
[1001] - Quote
I certainly hope the Stabber gets some special attention, however be very carefull to compare dps directly against the other cruisers without looking into the advantages of the hull.
As mentioned earlier I believe it lacks a few light drones but the speed can still get you into and out of many situations. The only real problem as I see it is how to to survive once in that situation with other cruisers.
Pinky |
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 12:13:00 -
[1002] - Quote
You just reminded me. Stabber got something special -_-
We forgot the renewed spatial-dynamic hull design, hand-polished by amarrian blood *trollface*
*Sad panda face* |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
379
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:15:00 -
[1003] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:I certainly hope the Stabber gets some special attention, however be very carefull to compare dps directly against the other cruisers without looking into the advantages of the hull.
As mentioned earlier I believe it lacks a few light drones but the speed can still get you into and out of many situations. The only real problem as I see it is how to to survive once in that situation with other cruisers.
Pinky
"Going really fast" is not really a worthwhile role for a hull, especially since it doesnt have the dps or tracking or drones to kill tackle. A number of assault frigates could just brawl it down, without even getting under its guns (which they can all do with ease) |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:28:00 -
[1004] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Pinky Denmark wrote:I certainly hope the Stabber gets some special attention, however be very carefull to compare dps directly against the other cruisers without looking into the advantages of the hull.
As mentioned earlier I believe it lacks a few light drones but the speed can still get you into and out of many situations. The only real problem as I see it is how to to survive once in that situation with other cruisers.
Pinky "Going really fast" is not really a worthwhile role for a hull, especially since it doesnt have the dps or tracking or drones to kill tackle. A number of assault frigates could just brawl it down, without even getting under its guns (which they can all do with ease)
So the reason the vaga is so good isn't due to its speed? |
Alara IonStorm
3663
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:36:00 -
[1005] - Quote
Rick Rymes wrote: So the reason the vaga is so good isn't due to its speed?
Speed and Dmg. Bunch of factors.
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
380
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:47:00 -
[1006] - Quote
Speed, damage, projection, then a neut and drones to deal with tackle.
A vaga has literally twice the damage of a stabber, 50% more tank, more range, better sensors, etc |
Rick Rymes
Red Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:50:00 -
[1007] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Speed, damage, projection, then a neut and drones to deal with tackle.
A vaga has literally twice the damage of a stabber, 50% more tank, more range, better sensors, etc
And its T2, and how can it have more range they both have the same falloff bonus? |
Alara IonStorm
3663
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 13:58:00 -
[1008] - Quote
Rick Rymes wrote: And its T2, and how can it have more range they both have the same falloff bonus?
7.5% Stabber / 10% Vega + extra Low.
Tech 2 Should be better but for other examples of T2 that means 2 more bonuses 1 of which is Dmg and more resist tank.
Cutting a gun and 5 drones from the equation is a little to much. I don't mind if they keep it short a gun but give it its drones at least.
As I sated before I think the new Stabber should lose the Launchers and a High, Gain a low and get 5 Drones. That and a small nerf to speed.
Reasons.
* Lets you kite with Faction Ammo on a double TE fit meaning Newbies can use it before T2 Guns. * Lets you put a Nano in and get the same speed it had before with similar DPS to now. * Lets you but a Gyro in and get good but not near Vega Dmg.
You could get okay but not Vega Dmg just by adding 4-5 Drones but with a fifth low Newer Players can use it more effectively. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
644
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 17:02:00 -
[1009] - Quote
There's no place in this game for a nano-kitey Stabber with a 7.5% falloff bonus and omgwtfpwn speed. No way will this ship be able to keep range and kite other cruiser hulls. I can't possibly think of a 3 tracking enhancer fit that will omgwtfpwn frigates. Especially when the nuets will cap out other ships that are close range, and projectile ammo will ensure you will be able to hit the resist hole of those same frigates. Nope. The new Stabber is completely defenseless. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
151
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:36:00 -
[1010] - Quote
Can you post a fit of a Stabber where no other cruiser could do the job better ? |
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
382
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:46:00 -
[1011] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:There's no place in this game for a nano-kitey Stabber with a 7.5% falloff bonus and omgwtfpwn speed. No way will this ship be able to keep range and kite other cruiser hulls. I can't possibly think of a 3 tracking enhancer fit that will omgwtfpwn frigates. Especially when the nuets will cap out other ships that are close range, and projectile ammo will ensure you will be able to hit the resist hole of those same frigates. Nope. The new Stabber is completely defenseless.
An armor omen outdamages a stabber at all ranges inside point range. Same goes for most of the other cruisers. A vexor using nothing but hobs (ie, small drones, no guns), forces you inside web range if you want to apply more damage (and it has more tank than you anyway)
|
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
386
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 20:49:00 -
[1012] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Can you post a fit of a Stabber where no other cruiser could do the job better ?
There is one thing actually.
[Stabber, BUMP] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400
[empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot]
Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
|
Meldorn Vaash
State War Academy Caldari State
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 02:41:00 -
[1013] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Sheynan wrote:Can you post a fit of a Stabber where no other cruiser could do the job better ? There is one thing actually. [Stabber, BUMP] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
*Blink*
Really?
|
Deerin
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 08:00:00 -
[1014] - Quote
Oh the bumping stabber reaches new levels of awesomeness. I've seen current stabber bumping battleships to 50k. New one will definitely be better.
One more thing....add a cloak.
Stabber has a falloff bonus, but is outperformed at damage projection department by the bellicose and rupture. Especially bellicose, being 3rd fastest cruiser after stabber and thorax, has so many features that stabber lacks.
Therefore I don't really count falloff bonus on stabber as anything special. Aside from its speed stabber has only one unique thing to it: Two utility highs.
So I think Stabber will be better utilized by using dual neuts to shut down other ships capacitors. A full brawling setup with dual neuts will cause already cap intensive amarr ships to suffer. |
Goldensaver
Marsuud And Sons Industries
101
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 10:15:00 -
[1015] - Quote
Meldorn Vaash wrote:Michael Harari wrote:Sheynan wrote:Can you post a fit of a Stabber where no other cruiser could do the job better ? There is one thing actually. [Stabber, BUMP] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive I Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 400 Small Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 400 [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Ancillary Current Router I *Blink* Really?
What, have you never played miner bowling before? The Stabber's a great choice for it. |
Bouh Revetoile
Barricade.
186
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 10:19:00 -
[1016] - Quote
The Stabber can outtrack *easily* any amarr ship, and can kite any blaster ship but the no tank no cap shield neutron Thorax. Oh, and it can outrun frigates too....
And as some said, with 2 medium neutralizers, it is the bane of frigates and destroyers (and some cruisers too). |
|
CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
1351
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 10:35:00 -
[1017] - Quote
Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads. |
|
Vayn Baxtor
Community for Justice Paradox Trust
3
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 11:50:00 -
[1018] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Unsticking, let's make some space for future threads.
Not unless we can bump it!
*ducks*
|
Suliux
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 17:51:00 -
[1019] - Quote
Bump for more stabber love |
Colt Blackhawk
Forced Penetration Reckless Faith
15
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 20:04:00 -
[1020] - Quote
More stabber love? The stabber is great. Never felt so unlucky in a tech2 assault frig. The stabber is the perfect Tech2 assault killer. Faster and more powerfull than any tech2 assault frig. Already ran from it like hell with my hawk. Also the pefect dessie killer. Don-Št know where the ship needs more love. Actually the rebalancing was great. I see ships like mallers and moas and stabbers now everywhere and they all are a threat instead a laugh like before Retribution. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 35 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |