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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2427
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Posted - 2012.09.19 02:05:00 -
[211] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Alara IonStorm wrote:Stabber: 4 Turrets Drones (bandwidth / bay): 5 / 5
So CCP Fozzie now that the Stabber is basically the new Minmatar Shuttle how do you plan to rebalance the Minmatar Shuttle into an Attack Cruiser?
um you left out the two missles You know, I think I would seriously consider a couple of Rapid Light Missile Arrays' for the Stabber over the Heavies. I'd have to look at unbonused light missile range again. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Mehall
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.19 02:11:00 -
[212] - Quote
Naxy Antollare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:
Thorax: Cruiser skill bonuses: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret tracking speed Slot layout: 5 H, 4 M (+1), 5 L, 5 turrets Fittings: 820 PWG, 330 CPU (+30) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1200(-324) / 1600(-41) / 1700(+175) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1450(+75) / 490s(+25.25s) / 2.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 235(+55) / 0.49(-0.0658) / 11280000 / 5.2s (-0.7) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 50 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km(-2.5) / 280(+21) / 6 Sensor strength: 15 Magnetometric Signature radius: 130(-10) Cargo capacity: 465(+200)
Thorax hull .. is 1,875 HP now.. at least that is what i see when looking at info You're right. Meaning the thorax is getting a huge (540 base) HP reduction.(10.7% health nerf, plus more due to resistances etc.)
And it will still be struggling to get well into range to project it's blaster damage onto the target because you will still struggle with the cap after MWD. |
Caseen
Lost in J-Space
0
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Posted - 2012.09.19 02:55:00 -
[213] - Quote
Nice work CCP! HMLs definately needed some tweeking. The Hurrican changes seem a little drastic, but overall ok with it. Having trade-offs when ship fitting is a good thing. |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
116
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:25:00 -
[214] - Quote
CCP Fozzie, Can you look at the following T2 charges for winter too Hail -50% Range 0.7x tracking Void -25% range 0.75x tracking Conflagration -50% range 0.7x tracking These are all close range charges and they all have a penalty to tracking as well as range, any chance the tracking penalty could be adjusted to a tracking bonus? Ideas for drone improvement |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
55
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Posted - 2012.09.19 03:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
Ashera Yune wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone. Only Gallente ships should have Drones. Remove drones from all ships EXCEPT FOR GALLENTE AND AMARR SHIPS.
Fix'd
Caldari = Missiles / Hybrid (drones are minimal) Minmitar = Projectile / Missiles (drones are minimal) Gallente = Hybrid / Drones Amarr = Lasers (or missile) / Drones
Drones are part of the Amarr load out, and its where they belong. laser / drone is why I went Amarr to begin with. ;) |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2428
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Posted - 2012.09.19 04:19:00 -
[216] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:Marcel Devereux wrote:Ashera Yune wrote:The stabber 5 m3 drone bay is silly. Get rid of the missiles slot, add a turret slot and 25m3 drone bay. Actually it having any drones is silly. Keep it as it is and remove the drone. Only Gallente ships should have Drones. Remove drones from all ships EXCEPT FOR GALLENTE AND AMARR SHIPS. Fix'd Caldari = Missiles / Hybrid (drones are minimal) Minmitar = Projectile / Missiles (drones are minimal) Gallente = Hybrid / Drones Amarr = Lasers (or missile) / Drones Drones are part of the Amarr load out, and its where they belong. laser / drone is why I went Amarr to begin with. ;) Yep, now if only they would do something a bit more interesting with the drone stats..... and make the user interface for them at least somewhat handy. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
189
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 04:47:00 -
[217] - Quote
Onslaughtor wrote:I really dont see how your getting your numbers. They both get 4 low slots, same bonus, and the Caracal gets one more launcher. Also with the buff to HAMs the Caracal may use them more often because it gets a range bonus, where the Bellicose will have to make a choice. If your saying that its the drones your wrong in thinking thats going to end up giving you more dps. Because we all know that people are going to fill that with ecm drones, or maybe some web drones so you can fit a painter on your shield boat. The Caracal also has much more in the way of defenses. As it is I think is fairly balanced. A full gank Bell could get more dps than a Caracal but in reality, for it to be a balanced ship it can't fulfill this dream. Min maxing on paper may sound like a way to win a argument but it can leave you bind to more realistic setups and probabilitys. As damage assist, go for the Bellicose, it will do more and you get more speed and flexibility. For a small gang, go with the Bellicose for versatility and the TP bonus. For long range, HML have that no matter who fits them, so go for the Belicose who can hold range and use drones for damage, EW, or web. Yes, the Caracal has more tank, unless you try to fit tackle; meanwhile, the Bellicose will just speed tank.
Best I can think of right now it that the low drone ships need an extra slot. That has been a balancing factor in the past. |
Shaalira D'arc
Quantum Cats Syndicate
496
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 05:10:00 -
[218] - Quote
The new green dildo Thorax looks interesting. While the mid slots seem to encourage shield-tanking, the big cut to its basic shield value is something of an obstacle.
An armor thorax could be double web, dual prop, or fitted with gratuitous e-war. Tracking disruptor is a good choice, or even a damp depending on how e-war is balanced come winter.
Still, going full shield gank will be really tempting on a blaster boat with a tracking bonus. And the suggestion of a rail kitey thorax is worth exploring. |
Aphatasis
Evoke. Ev0ke
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 05:33:00 -
[219] - Quote
Just wanted to add again, that it may be a mistake to use the Thorax as a Attack Cruiser.
Just check the orices of the 4 ships. Omen, Caracal and Stabber all cost around 6m, ISK, Thorax is at about 10m. At least change the Mineral-need for building the Thorax.
Next Problem would be that if u take the T2 Ships in compare, then a single Attack Cruiser will be the hull for a HAC and a HIC, but the other 3 just have a HAC version.
Vice versa u will get a problem with the Vexor as a Combat (?) Cruiser.
Plz don't create something that is again not inline, some kind of execption that makes no sense! In the last year or so u started to streamline a lot (jsut want to mention the streamlining of the names of the socalled named mods aka meta lvl 1 - 4) and now there will be added someone u have to explain to a beginn with "well, there is a acception cause when it got change..." |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1233
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 06:02:00 -
[220] - Quote
Confirming Thorax current hull is actually 1,875 HP, so there is a typo in new stats, should be (-175)
Anyway, it's a bit confused ship. Weak base shield tank, and no grid to fit a reasonable armor tank.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
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Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
398
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Posted - 2012.09.19 06:48:00 -
[221] - Quote
My thoughts:
- Get rid of the cap use / lvl bonus on the Omen and swap it for something useful (optimal range, perhaps?) while buffing the capacitor so the ship can use its guns without wasting a bonus on it
- Swap the tracking speed bonus on the Thorax for falloff (blasters are more likely to be used on a fast, agile cruiser than railguns, and blasters don't really befit from extra tracking) |
Dato Koppla
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
61
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Posted - 2012.09.19 07:04:00 -
[222] - Quote
While optimal range bonus would be a wet dream come true, I don't think it'll happen as it would step on the toes of the Zealot simply because its so much cheaper. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
433
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 07:21:00 -
[223] - Quote
When these hit SiSi, i am going to spend a week on there fluffaluffing about, and then make my comments fo reelz. For now...preliminary waffle.
Caracal looks good. Finally a ganky kitey missile cruiser - fit a LASB, HML's, buttloads of BCU's, and a MWD and try to stay out of trouble. The missile velocity bonus is boss.
Omen looks good for a cheap man's A(HA)C. Nubs will be able to practise AHACs on the Training Omen. Calls for more optimal ignore Scorch already has OMFG range.
Stabber is now like a mini Cyclone. A buffer Cyclone, that is. Fly it like a Vaga and train up for HAM/HML's instead of mainlining AC's and dropping yourself directly into a Ruppy/Cane. Though, one light drone really is pissweak. May as well get rid of it and give the Stabber more PG to fit smartbombs, ffs.
Thorax. Well, everyne complains that Gal blaster boats are slow as pus and hopeless, so this looks like a capitulation to the shield-nano fits, because you sure as hell don't want to try plating the balls off it now. Which is fine. Also the tracking bonus is beastly...I can see people fitting TCs and Electrons to this and wilfully tangling with AFs. Excellent.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1234
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Posted - 2012.09.19 07:52:00 -
[224] - Quote
New Thorax is like a mini-Talos, but using rails instead of blasters to kite?
Looks like it will be able to fit LSE+Invuln with long point and MWD, and fill lows with speed and gank along with the mandatory DCUII.
Might be a fun ship to fly, involving and balanced. Looking very much forward to testing it!
(Of course largest tier rails are still impossible, but this would imho be the ideal situation with all cruisers- leave the biggest LR guns to BCs.) Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Lee Vanden
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:04:00 -
[225] - Quote
Was this nerf to HML designed to give CFC and HBC complete control over null-sec, because that's what it's going to achieve? The damage reduction to HML's will completely destroy the Thundercat doctrine which is currently one of the only reasonably successful doctrines that can can be used to counter huge blobs. Yes Goon and Test Drake fleets will be hit by the changes too, however they have such overwhelming numbers anyway that it will make hardly any difference to them, whereas any fleet fighting in Thundercats will now have no chance of breaking their opponent tanks (as if it wasn't hard enough already). The CFC and HBC are already on the verge of taking complete control over null-sec and this Winter nerf basically hands them complete victory on a platter, which while making Goons and Test extremely happy is hardly going to be good for the future of EVE. When the entirety of null-sec is owned by one power-bloc who are in an unassailable position, what is the point of continuing playing? |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1237
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:05:00 -
[226] - Quote
Save your baby boo tears for the right thread? Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
399
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:13:00 -
[227] - Quote
Lee Vanden wrote:Was this nerf to HML designed to give CFC and HBC complete control over null-sec, because that's what it's going to achieve? The damage reduction to HML's will completely destroy the Thundercat doctrine which is currently one of the only reasonably successful doctrines that can can be used to counter huge blobs. Yes Goon and Test Drake fleets will be hit by the changes too, however they have such overwhelming numbers anyway that it will make hardly any difference to them, whereas any fleet fighting in Thundercats will now have no chance of breaking their opponent tanks (as if it wasn't hard enough already). The CFC and HBC are already on the verge of taking complete control over null-sec and this Winter nerf basically hands them complete victory on a platter, which while making Goons and Test extremely happy is hardly going to be good for the future of EVE. When the entirety of null-sec is owned by one power-bloc who are in an unassailable position, what is the point of continuing playing?
Check which browser tab you're on before spamming some stupid tinfoil reply? |
Lee Vanden
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
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Posted - 2012.09.19 09:29:00 -
[228] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Lee Vanden wrote:Was this nerf to HML designed to give CFC and HBC complete control over null-sec, because that's what it's going to achieve? The damage reduction to HML's will completely destroy the Thundercat doctrine which is currently one of the only reasonably successful doctrines that can can be used to counter huge blobs. Yes Goon and Test Drake fleets will be hit by the changes too, however they have such overwhelming numbers anyway that it will make hardly any difference to them, whereas any fleet fighting in Thundercats will now have no chance of breaking their opponent tanks (as if it wasn't hard enough already). The CFC and HBC are already on the verge of taking complete control over null-sec and this Winter nerf basically hands them complete victory on a platter, which while making Goons and Test extremely happy is hardly going to be good for the future of EVE. When the entirety of null-sec is owned by one power-bloc who are in an unassailable position, what is the point of continuing playing? Check which browser tab you're on before spamming some stupid tinfoil reply?
That's a fantastic non-response. I understand the knee-jerk reaction to defend CFC / HBC, but this is as bad for you as it is for anyone else. When SoCo, NC. and Solar are defeated, who will you fight then? |
Nikuno
Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers
63
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:47:00 -
[229] - Quote
Interesting set of changes.
To begin with I'd like to point out to those complaining about the thorax hull being used here instead of the vexor hull that their arguments will obviously be reversed for the combat ships - if a thorax hull needs more mins to build this class of ship, then they will have the opposite advantage in the combat class; equally to most of the other arguments about keeping the ships alongside their current tier counterparts.
As for detail about these ship changes -
Omen I think looks good alongside the laser changes, it should have theoretical options to either kite with beams or tank and close with pulses; the big problem about this is the continued problem armour tanking presents to speed which may well make the pulse/tank option unrealistic.
Caracal looks fair at first sight but I'd need to fly it with the changed HMLs before I could really say if the missile changes were a bit OTT.
Thorax seems to be pushed towards blasters again. Given that the new beam lasers have reduced fittings and the Omen has a much healthier PG than the Thorax, trying to fit 250mm rails to this ship will be unworkable I suspect. Please, can't Gallente ships be given even an outside chance of using rails on their (potentially) kiting ships? Also, the 4th mid is very good for this ship but, as above with the Omen, the speed issue with armour tanking will push this heavily in the direction of shield tanking with the ASB. I struggle to see the ship balancing of classes above destroyer being truly workable until this armour tank flaw is resolved somehow.
Stabber has a huge speed advantage over the other cruisers in this class. Combined with the falloff bonus I'd be careful about creating a new fotm speed tank alternative to the hurricane within a given ship class. On the downside, the split weapon system remains to haunt Minmatar pilots. |
Tomcio FromFarAway
Singularity's Edge
207
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 09:57:00 -
[230] - Quote
Lee Vanden wrote: When SoCo, NC. and Solar are defeated, who will you fight then?
No one of course. Them Goons will reign supreme and EvE will finally die.
Take your petty politics out of here. |
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Lee Vanden
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:06:00 -
[231] - Quote
Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Lee Vanden wrote: When SoCo, NC. and Solar are defeated, who will you fight then?
No one of course. Them Goons will reign supreme and EvE will finally die. Take your petty politics out of here.
This goes beyond politics idiot, it's about the future of EVE. I happen to like null-sec warfare and I don't want to see it stagnate and die. |
Creedling
Black Omega Industrial
2
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:14:00 -
[232] - Quote
I'm looking forward to flying an armour tank Omen, crawl and brawl :D |
Connall Tara
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
39
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:23:00 -
[233] - Quote
and while it may go beyond politics and whatnot its still in the wrong thread. we're talking cruisers here mate please take heavy missile complaints to the threadnought next door ^_^
over all changes i'm seeing for the attack crusiers? excellent!
while the caracal is now very much up for debate over heavy missile effectiveness thanks to the OTHER thread the prospects of a decent HAM caracal are pretty damn good with 30km bacon goodness and the prospects of TE's and tracking comps to improve their hit rate I no doubt we'll see 30-40km "dps support" caracals in RVB play using hams and range to help take down brawlers. while by no means the solo boats the thorax and the stabber will no doubtly serve in the same enviroment.
the thorax is looking joyous for me, absolutely nothing wrong here 1 extra slot in the mids opens up all kinds of options for supplimentary Ewar support (dual webs being my obvious choice on armour fits) or as many have mentioned shield kite fits akin to the talos.
the omen is getting a lot of needed love and will probably fill in the same roll as the caracal as a mid range dps support boat to a pre existing fleet with tackle and "combat" ships leading the charge. 6 lows opens up a lot of options for glass cannon facemelt akin to the destroyer class coercer, only a good thing.
the stabber looks awesome all round, as i've previously mentioned it doesn't need more guns as the "dps" fits will chose to fit missile launchers in one form or another and with the additional fitting provided along side the fall off bonus, the extra mid and the extra low the stabber should have little to no problems competing with its rupture counterpart as a kiting boat with significantly more applied dps and the speed to ensure it maintains range. this will of course be offset with a relatively weaker tank to its counterparts and i would argue that the significantly weaker dronebay is to serve as a weakness so groups of particularly fast frigates can catch and engage the stabber, eventually destroying it. atron wolfpacks would be an ideal example of such a group.
Fly reckless cohost and all round bad pilot o7 |
Lord Calus
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
18
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Posted - 2012.09.19 10:54:00 -
[234] - Quote
Can we at least pretend that armor tanking still exists in game and not everyone is shield/projectile weapon kiting chars? I know that is the main PL doctrine Raivi, but these changes are getting pretty silly. All I see with these changes is the further superiority of the existing doctrines and play styles without any of that supposed desire for variety.
Quit tiptoeing around the issue and just give shield tanking -50% cap requirement and +50% effectiveness, and then reverse the numbers for armor. Then give projectile +50% ROF and damage and all other weapons get reversed. Then we can all be one minmattar shield projectile world just the way that CCP wants it.
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
201
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Posted - 2012.09.19 11:04:00 -
[235] - Quote
Lee Vanden wrote:Tomcio FromFarAway wrote:Lee Vanden wrote: When SoCo, NC. and Solar are defeated, who will you fight then?
No one of course. Them Goons will reign supreme and EvE will finally die. Take your petty politics out of here. This goes beyond politics idiot, it's about the future of EVE. I happen to like null-sec warfare and I don't want to see it stagnate and die. No-one joins EVE because they've read about how great carebearing is or how fantastic life in low-sec is, they join because they hear about the huge battles between alliances for null-sec sov that you don't get in other games. When that disappears so will the incentive for many people to play.
Have you any idea how many times this crap has been spouted?
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Gelvina
Temnava Legion TEMNAVA
1
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Posted - 2012.09.19 11:08:00 -
[236] - Quote
From a skill entry point to these ships I believe the stabber is the hardest to train for. (for noobs that is offcourse)
firstly you need to train up to tech2 medium autocannons to get barrage. Which already requires a lot of time for a new player I think (was a long time ago) Now to properly fly it you require descent missile skills as well?
I know minmatar is in many ships guns+missiles and I like that. But for this stabber wouldn't it make more sense to maybe give it 1 more turret slot? I mean its the baby brother to the vaga and you don't need missiles for the vagabond.
Am I making sense?
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Sui'Djin
Black Rise Guerilla Forces Caldari Protectorate Forces
8
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Posted - 2012.09.19 11:09:00 -
[237] - Quote
Didn't the Stabber already have 13 sensor strength (so it is not +3) ? |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
192
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:38:00 -
[238] - Quote
Looking at what will be fairly standard fits for PvP I utterly approve of these changes.
Omen is no longer lame and has good damage and projection with a reasonable tank.
Caracal is an excellent kiter with a good tank.
Thorax is utterly terrifying in close range.
Stabber has excellent versatility and can operate as a kiter or a brawler and work as either a shield or a buffer tank.
TL;DR: Ship it |
Nalha Saldana
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
304
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 11:48:00 -
[239] - Quote
Gelvina wrote:From a skill entry point to these ships I believe the stabber is the hardest to train for. (for noobs that is offcourse)
firstly you need to train up to tech2 medium autocannons to get barrage. Which already requires a lot of time for a new player I think (was a long time ago) Now to properly fly it you require descent missile skills as well?
I know minmatar is in many ships guns+missiles and I like that. But for this stabber wouldn't it make more sense to maybe give it 1 more turret slot? I mean its the baby brother to the vaga and you don't need missiles for the vagabond.
Am I making sense?
The other cruisers gets 5 bonused turrets and the stabber gets 4 + 2 missile launchers, if you want to give it a fifth slot you will have to remove the launcher altogether to balance it and that just makes it the same as the others. I like this mix and think it should stay. Remember that 4 turrets + 2 neuts is also very powerful. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
288
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Posted - 2012.09.19 12:07:00 -
[240] - Quote
Gelvina wrote:...Am I making sense? Not really no. It will only, as in exclusively, require more skills than the other races if the aim to maximize dps .. but if that is the case then why not argue that it needs double damage bonus or more lows for damage mods.
Minmatar were not designed to go toe-to-toe with equal hulls from the other races, they strike fast and reposition ad nauseum until the enemy is in ruin. Sadly the past few years, have due to balancing only now getting under way, Mims have grown accustomed to getting cake, eating cake and still have cake to sell on .. something has to give .. revised Stabber fits with the original racial dogma.
If I were to ask for a change it would be to make it 4/4 Gun-/Missile slot. Versatility out the wazoo and completely immune to the geriatric 'mah skills!' arguments as the choice of which way to go is not made by CCP.
Spugg Galdon wrote:... Thorax is utterly terrifying in close range... With a whopping 7.5%/lvl tracking bonus I'd bet it will also be rather nasty from range .. for the longest time (way back when) the Megathron was the go-to fleet sniper ship as tracking is by far the biggest downside to rails, fully expect the new Rax to dominate LR cruiser fights especially now that HM range is brought in line.
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