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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 63 post(s) |
Mr Burns91
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:55:00 -
[511] - Quote
HML nerf is to harsh.
with max skills range is 60km and volley damage is 1731 assuming drake keeps bonuses and using scourge fury. That means the DPS is 277 using no damage mods and fury missiles.
The damage is even more horrid than it already is.
I do not approve.
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Lord Ryan
True Xero
602
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 19:56:00 -
[512] - Quote
After reading tons of pages I've learned that Drake is Op so nerf cane.
Other BC suck so nerf cane and drake,
Other T3's suck so nerf tengu.
I remember when no one flew Caldari in PVP, looks like those days are coming again.
Anyways nerf missles to hell, just give me back my SP. Took me 3 years to start training missiles because they kind of suck and now they suck a little more. Atleast I trained AC 5 and BC 5 I can still fly my pimp cane, oh wait. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Antoine Jordan
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:58:00 -
[513] - Quote
D3vastator wrote:I've played off & on since 2004 & am up to just over 24m Skill Points. Here's a chart that shows what this change does to almost 15% of my skill points.As you can see, I've trained specifically to sling Heavy Missiles from a Tengu so that I can run level 4 missions. This really really screws over players like me who couldn't give two craps about what goes on out in drama-sec. If you want to nerf the Drakespam, nerf Drakes...not an entire weapon system. EVE is already at a point, PvE-wise, where my buddy's Ishtar** already outdoes my Tengu in both tank & gank for L4 missions. This change will just make PvE even more lopsided away from Caldari. **Edit: I accidentally a kur instead of tar. I dualbox ishtar and tengu, and you must be doing something wrong if his Ishtar is outpacing your Tengu as the game is now. |
Wolfstorm
Knights of Free Space Tribal Band
4
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Posted - 2012.09.18 19:59:00 -
[514] - Quote
Laura Dexx wrote:[
You're saying small gang don't use drakes? I'm sure PODLA would be willing to talk you out of that notion.
No what I said is drakes aren't broken in small gang use now.
They are only really broken as a blob fleet.
You do not fix broken stuff by breaking the working stuff. The lead designer needs to be fired cus a monkey with half his brain in a jar could see you fix the other stuff that is broken to bring it in line with stuff that is working.
Fix medium rails, fix the really crappy ships that are competing with the drake - this is complete lazy crap on a stick. CCP used to be good for actually promoting the racial differences in ships until they got these new clowns who brought you walking in stations and micro transactions.
Fire them all and get some real designers who are't afraid of a challenge. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
71
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:00:00 -
[515] - Quote
Oracle (t-2 mega pulse lasers) Multifreq: 696 dps Oracle (t-2 mega pulse lasers) Scorch: 646 dps (75km range with tracking computers) Tengu (T-2 launchers), scourge t-1: 496 dps
So much for OP tengu. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:01:00 -
[516] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:After reading tons of pages I've learned that Drake is Op so nerf cane.
Other BC suck so nerf cane and drake,
Other T3's suck so nerf tengu.
I remember when no one flew Caldari in PVP, looks like those days are coming again.
Anyways nerf missles to hell, just give me back my SP. Took me 3 years to start training missiles because they kind of suck and now they suck a little more. Atleast I trained AC 5 and BC 5 I can still fly my pimp cane, oh wait.
I know this isn't very constructive but..
So.. Much.. BAD! |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
983
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:01:00 -
[517] - Quote
Tengu goes from 113,906 km to 85,050 and does 20% less damage.
Drake goes from 75,937 to 56,700 and does 20% less damage.
Dominion trailer will have to be edited... no need for second cyno ship as the first one would be out of range |
El 'Terrible
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:04:00 -
[518] - Quote
CCP promotes the entire inferno patch on making missiles look pretty (that and nerfing incursions and dronelands) and now no one will be using them. How ironic. |
OlRotGut
29
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:05:00 -
[519] - Quote
El 'Terrible wrote:CCP promotes the entire inferno patch on making missiles look pretty (that and nerfing incursions and dronelands) and now no one will be using them. How ironic.
Look at it this way, it'll cut down their support tickets to their helpdesk complaining about the poor performance the game client gives players post launcher graphics patch.
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Lelob
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:05:00 -
[520] - Quote
Nikolai Dostoyevski wrote:Lelob wrote:Wolfstorm wrote:This is the most ******** thing I've seen CCP propose to date. *I've seen more than a few doozies
Please for the love of the gods stop dumbing down eve.
This is not balancing - this is making everything the same crap with different models. Killing all of the strategic options and differences between the racial ships. When they are done we are going to have WoW in space and it's going to be just another trash MMO. Way to go atlanta office - I can't wait for the east coast to sink so we can get real designers working on eve again. Feel free to look at the top 3 ships flown in EVE. I can pretty well gurantee it will almost always be drake>hurricane and then most likely tengu. These ships are overpowered and have been for quite a while now. Cries for a drake nerf have been heard for a very long time, and its about time CCP started to looking at why a tier 2 bc hull should be able to project 400 dps out to 80km with a 100k ehp tank for under 50mil. Maybe instead of nerfing the drake and tengu, CCP should buff other medium weapon platforms and ships to make them more appealing? I refuse to use medium rails - they're garbage. I am fine with the HML range nerf.. it is a little ridiculous being able to pop things from 120km with HML when the other ship's effective ranges are about half that even using their long range option. But the HML damage nerf doesn't make much sense to me. If you nerf HML range by a good amount, HAMs become more appealing by virtue of that alone.
Any buff that would make a weapon platform shoot out to 80km with 400 consistent dps that hits almost anything decently well and took no cap would be utterly game crushing. This nerf needs to happen. |
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Omega Sunset
Caldari Roughnecks
37
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:05:00 -
[521] - Quote
group 1: NERF THEM!! group 2: NO NERF THEM! Developer: Distributes nerfs Group2: THEY NEED NERFS NAOW! Group 1: NO NERF THEM! Developer: Distributes nerfs on and on...
What is this, battlenet?!?
If something seems overpowered, in this case an effect of all medium missile boats? ...I just consider it poor-lazy development practice to issue [substantial] nerfs across the board (or to missile boats in this case) rather than just bringing the weaker up to standard. I've seen this just too many times in other mmo's, resulting in a cascade effect of unhappy players screaming for moar nerfs. Nerfs should only happen as fine tuning after introducing something new into the formula which suddenly made them overpowered, not after years of something being a set standard. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
603
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:06:00 -
[522] - Quote
Wolfstorm wrote:Laura Dexx wrote:[
You're saying small gang don't use drakes? I'm sure PODLA would be willing to talk you out of that notion. No what I said is drakes aren't broken in small gang use now. They are only really broken as a blob fleet. You do not fix broken stuff by breaking the working stuff. The lead designer needs to be fired cus a monkey with half his brain in a jar could see you fix the other stuff that is broken to bring it in line with stuff that is working. Fix medium rails, fix the really crappy ships that are competing with the drake - this is complete lazy crap on a stick. CCP used to be good for actually promoting the racial differences in ships until they got these new clowns who brought you walking in stations and micro transactions. Fire them all and get some real designers who are't afraid of a challenge.
Seems to be policy at CCP.
You would think by now we would be used to being kicked in the knutts.
BTW these new players you are catering to are just my alts. You are not attraching new players, you are never going to. Maybe a little loyalty to your long time customers and less focus on an imaginary customer Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
Sinigr Shadowsong
WATAG Academy SOLAR WING
4
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:06:00 -
[523] - Quote
Caldari missile shipline is officially dead now. After those changes Caldari missile ships beyond frig-size will become as rare as damp-focusing Lachesis nowadays. Let's see all categories of missiles.
1. Frig size. 1.1. Rockets: almost fine, it's just their DPS is weak. 1.2. Light missile launchers: noone use them, propably we will see them now and then as often as small railguns. Low dps, hard to fit.
2. Cruiser size. 2.1. Rapid light missile launchers: beyond some gimmick fits almost never used and I highly doubt they will after Winter. 2.2. Heavy missile launchers: now they will have a terrible DPS while being the only choice a missile boat of this size can fit without crippling itself. With upcoming Drake nerf it won't be used much. 2.3. HAML: they just useless. Hard to fit, extremely short range that can't be buffed by overpowered TE and TC. On top of that low dps and can't hurt small targets.
3. Battleship size. 3.1. Torpedoes: outside of bombers torps are awful. Extremely short range and can't even do full damage to the Death Star without gazilion of target painters. 3.2. Cruise missiles: too much range that noone needs, very low damage output and cant hurt cruiser-size targets without TP's or a lot of rigs + very good missile skills.
4. Capital size. Don't know much about that, but I know for sure that capital-sized missile launchers are worse than capital-size turrets.
So what do we have: Bad for PvP and bad for PvE missile ships. There are almost no point ever training: - Light missiles - HAM - HM (after Winter) - Cruise missiles - Caldari capitals The only viable missile types we left with are rockers and torps (for SB only). I want my SP in missiles back. |
Laura Dexx
Snuff Box
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:07:00 -
[524] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Oracle (t-2 mega pulse lasers) Multifreq: 696 dps Oracle (t-2 mega pulse lasers) Scorch: 646 dps (75km range with tracking computers) Tengu (T-2 launchers), scourge t-1: 496 dps
So much for OP tengu.
I'm not even going to bother pointing out the flaw here.
Wait, I am. Have you tried this against a moving cruiser or frigate? See who comes out on top. EHP? Sig radius? Speed? Capacitor? Faction ammo? |
Tamiya Sarossa
Resistance is Character Forming
194
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:08:00 -
[525] - Quote
HM nerf good, homogenization of guns and missiles bad. |
Svodola Darkfury
Heaven's End League of Infamy
59
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:10:00 -
[526] - Quote
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:Caldari missile shipline is officially dead now. After those changes Caldari missile ships beyond frig-size will become as rare as damp-focusing Lachesis nowadays. Let's see all categories of missiles.
1. Frig size. 1.1. Rockets: almost fine, it's just their DPS is weak. 1.2. Light missile launchers: noone use them, propably we will see them now and then as often as small railguns. Low dps, hard to fit.
2. Cruiser size. 2.1. Rapid light missile launchers: beyond some gimmick fits almost never used and I highly doubt they will after Winter. 2.2. Heavy missile launchers: now they will have a terrible DPS while being the only choice a missile boat of this size can fit without crippling itself. With upcoming Drake nerf it won't be used much. 2.3. HAML: they just useless. Hard to fit, extremely short range that can't be buffed by overpowered TE and TC. On top of that low dps and can't hurt small targets.
3. Battleship size. 3.1. Torpedoes: outside of bombers torps are awful. Extremely short range and can't even do full damage to the Death Star without gazilion of target painters. 3.2. Cruise missiles: too much range that noone needs, very low damage output and cant hurt cruiser-size targets without TP's or a lot of rigs + very good missile skills.
4. Capital size. Don't know much about that, but I know for sure that capital-sized missile launchers are worse than capital-size turrets.
So what do we have: Bad for PvP and bad for PvE missile ships. There are almost no point ever training: - Light missiles - HAM - HM (after Winter) - Cruise missiles - Caldari capitals The only viable missile types we left with are rockers and torps (for SB only). I want my SP in missiles back.
Mostly good points; Cruises will still be good for PVE as they are unaffected by this change (Except vs. Sansha? They TD right?)
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Proletariat Tingtango
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:10:00 -
[527] - Quote
So hey look, I hated drakefleet and i dont mind the pvp ramifications, but what am I supposed to make money with in nullsec as a low-sp pilot? I can salvage off of kinder vets sometimes, but that's a finite and pretty limited source of isk. I'm just now able to do forsaken hubs on my own, and that's my only steady source of isk. With these nerfs on the board it really sounds like you're dicking low-sp pilots that live in nullsec out of one of their major sources of income, which wasn't that major to begin with.
I was also slowly training for a tengu to rat and now i'm second guessing that. Did you guys even think this nerf through? Do you actually want people to never use the drake or heavy-missile based ships ever again?
It seems like you could have reduced the viability of heavy missiles in pvp without completely screwing low-sp income sources. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1177
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:10:00 -
[528] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:War Kitten wrote:If you're going to compare long range guns and HMLs, use the long range tech II ammo in the HML too.
Then do your graphs again with CN scourge vs. CN antimatter and Navy MF.
At least talk apples to apples. Then you can at least make useful comparisons.
You're suggesting that the shorter range, higher DPS, faction HML ammo should be able to be projected consistently farther than the falloff of most the other long-range turret platforms? I completely understand comparing apples to apples - but the problem is that a shorter range, high DPS ammo is outclassing falloff ranges on long-range turret platforms. The purpose of the graph wasn't to make a direct comparison, is was to highlight this specific imbalance.
I'm not suggesting that at all.
I'm suggesting you make comparisons that are meaningful. Yes, scourge missiles project farther than their counterpart in damage for turrets. But those graphs cherry pick some of the worst DPS turret ammo and compare them to the 2nd best HML ammo, simply to try and compare range projections.
Compare Tech II long range ammo across the board. Compare Faction DPS ammo across the board. Compare Tech II high DPS "tracking" ammo across the board.
Then compare the results of each of those graphs to find the balance. Don't cherry pick your data.
HMLs need a nerf, don't get me wrong, but they need to be compared fairly and honestly. My gut still says 20% damage reduction on top of 25% range reduction is an over-nerf and will kill HML use entirely.
But I'll wait for the above graphs (or make them myself if CCP is hiring amateur game designers and wants to pay me :) ).
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
603
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:10:00 -
[529] - Quote
Instead of endless cycle of nerf, buff nerf, nerf and nerf some more. just make every weapon the same but with differeent names and get it over with. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
I'm Down
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
72
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:11:00 -
[530] - Quote
I don't think one player every said Heavy Missiles needed a massive DPS nerf. I think most people said nerf range... Yet you go way over the top by doing both in huge totals.
Fozzie is proving how bad CCP is becoming. Drone on every god damn ship in game, Lazy EWAR that's way OP now... No seperation of TD's and missile disruption. No separation between T1 cheap bullshit, and T2 expensive.... mildly better ships.
Do you guys even get what this game once was? I mean ******* hell, lets just murder every principle the game was built on. |
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OlRotGut
29
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:11:00 -
[531] - Quote
Sinigr Shadowsong wrote:Caldari missile shipline is officially dead now. After those changes Caldari missile ships beyond frig-size will become as rare as damp-focusing Lachesis nowadays. Let's see all categories of missiles.
1. Frig size. 1.1. Rockets: almost fine, it's just their DPS is weak. 1.2. Light missile launchers: noone use them, propably we will see them now and then as often as small railguns. Low dps, hard to fit.
2. Cruiser size. 2.1. Rapid light missile launchers: beyond some gimmick fits almost never used and I highly doubt they will after Winter. 2.2. Heavy missile launchers: now they will have a terrible DPS while being the only choice a missile boat of this size can fit without crippling itself. With upcoming Drake nerf it won't be used much. 2.3. HAML: they just useless. Hard to fit, extremely short range that can't be buffed by overpowered TE and TC. On top of that low dps and can't hurt small targets.
3. Battleship size. 3.1. Torpedoes: outside of bombers torps are awful. Extremely short range and can't even do full damage to the Death Star without gazilion of target painters. 3.2. Cruise missiles: too much range that noone needs, very low damage output and cant hurt cruiser-size targets without TP's or a lot of rigs + very good missile skills.
4. Capital size. Don't know much about that, but I know for sure that capital-sized missile launchers are worse than capital-size turrets.
So what do we have: Bad for PvP and bad for PvE missile ships. There are almost no point ever training: - Light missiles - HAM - HM (after Winter) - Cruise missiles - Caldari capitals The only viable missile types we left with are rockers and torps (for SB only). I want my SP in missiles back.
What are these Cruise missiles you speak of? lol ;) |
Lucien Eginald
Skull Valley Whiskey Militia
1
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:12:00 -
[532] - Quote
Nerfs just don't make sense to me. Buffs make more sense.
Let's go with the premise "Eve is Real," and it takes place in space. Progress is what folks in space would want, not steps backward. If your ship is underpowered, under tanked, etc, you would move to a better ship / weapon / armor / or shield combo, right? You wouldn't ask folks around you to make their ships worse.
Let's really go with Eve being real. When a pilot docks up and meets up with the local repair / engineering shop they wouldn't say, "Make my ship worse....." That would be like saying I want a 12mpg car instead of the 36mpg car I currently run. What's real about that?
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
61
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:12:00 -
[533] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Instead of endless cycle of nerf, buff nerf, nerf and nerf some more. just make every weapon the same but with differeent names and get it over with.
Stop being so bad. |
Reticle
Sight Picture
5
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:13:00 -
[534] - Quote
Mourning Souls wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: The upshot is that fitting a full rack of 720s with a MWD and LSE and full mids and lows will require a RCUII and either an ACR or PG implant.
How is that an upshot? From my understanding the word "upshot" is supposed to be a good thing. Full rack of 720's with a MWD and LSE right now only requires a ACR, needing a RCU2 as well isn't an upshot. "upshot" is a way of saying "in essence" or "basically" or "this is the key information, all else is left out" |
Wolfstorm
Knights of Free Space Tribal Band
5
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:14:00 -
[535] - Quote
I'm Down wrote:I don't think one player every said Heavy Missiles needed a massive DPS nerf. I think most people said nerf range... Yet you go way over the top by doing both in huge totals.
Fozzie is proving how bad CCP is becoming. Drone on every god damn ship in game, Lazy EWAR that's way OP now... No seperation of TD's and missile disruption. No separation between T1 cheap bullshit, and T2 expensive.... mildly better ships.
Do you guys even get what this game once was? I mean ******* hell, lets just murder every principle the game was built on.
These new design team are ****. I think it's time for another revolution and the burning of jita mark 2 to teach em to not put their pants on their head and do some real damn work. Cus really it ain't that hard - I should know, it's what I do elsewhere.
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Takeshi Yamato
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
449
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:14:00 -
[536] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:
I'm not suggesting that at all.
I'm suggesting you make comparisons that are meaningful. Yes, scourge missiles project farther than their counterpart in damage for turrets. But those graphs cherry pick some of the worst DPS turret ammo and compare them to the 2nd best HML ammo, simply to try and compare range projections.
Compare Tech II long range ammo across the board. Compare Faction DPS ammo across the board. Compare Tech II high DPS "tracking" ammo across the board.
Then compare the results of each of those graphs to find the balance. Don't cherry pick your data.
You keep saying this but I think you're confused. There is no T2 long range ammo for HMLs. You're thinking of Javelin missiles which are only usable in HAMs.
The T2 missiles for HMLs have both lower range than T1 missiles. |
Arduemont
Lords 0f Justice Fidelas Constans
268
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:15:00 -
[537] - Quote
Im sorry CCP but a 20% reduction in Heavy Missile damage is way out of line. I agree with the range decrease, because they have a ridiculously high range for medium sized weapon. But a 20% reduction in damage is catastrophic. Caldari are reknown for their missile boats and as it stands none of thier missile platforms are useful. There are only three truly useful Caldari missile boats, Golum, Tengu and Drake... two of which use heavies.
You will destroy the Caldari ship line like this. The Caracal is already terrible and useless, and that uses heavies, your just going to make it worse. Not to mention the Cerb is one of the most useless of the HACs, and your definitely going to make that worse. If it wasn't before it definitely will be now.
I very rarely think badly of CCP, but that change will make me deaply unhappy. |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
194
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:17:00 -
[538] - Quote
My Moros can do 18kdps while my tengu barely scrapes the 600dps mark. Therefore missiles are fine and this nerf is uncalled for. CAUTION
SNIGGS |
Lili Lu
438
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 20:17:00 -
[539] - Quote
The Bazzalisk wrote: I think you seem to forget that Caldari is the most popular race so of course Drakes are going to be the most popular battlecruiser.
And which came first the chicken or the egg?
I do not find the qq-ing itt surprising. So many people that entered this game in the last 3 or so years followed the obvious easy path, Drake -> Tengu and that's basically all you needed. That is being taken away.
Seriously, though it does surprise me that so many are failing to notice concurrent buffs that should be welcome. Faster missiles, removal of tech II ammo penalties, improved unguided missiles, and if the current frigate and cruiser rebalancing is any indication the hated kinetic bonus is being done away with (which is interesting for where it leaves Gallente tech II resists?).
People really need to take a deep breath, slow down and read the op. And as usual try to read the previous posts itt because some of the arguments have already been stated and even addressed. For instance, it appears likely that TDs base stats will be altered/reduced so that they don't become the new old-style multispec, per one of Fozzie's followup posts.
As for ships, welcome to wishing they could move faster to general BC rebalancing and on to tech II cruisers and BCs.
So it appears the two overused BCs will be getting an interim nerf. Thanks Ytterbium btw. At least the Drake is not getting a direct one, and really all the but it will be useless posters should wait for the comprehensive rebalance. CCP is wisely choosing to trim these two ships back in the interim and most likely balance the other BCs up to them. This will mean that the newly buffed cruisers won't just slide back into weaksauce in comparison. Did you all really expect that they could buff the other 6 BCs up to current Drake and Cane standards and just moot all the work on Cruisers?
Seriously, light missiles are getting a buff. I would bet that cruises could be getting a similar buff when they start addressing BSs and BS sized weapons. This is a process folks.
Maybe if all you whining are correct and armor turret boats come to dominate the killboards and pve activity the way the drake and tengu have you can wait 3+ years for that to get fixed. Welcome to a more complex game. A game where you want to train something other than one race of ships and one weapon system. And where you don't just load your lows with damage mods and your mids with tank, hit f1 and watch the missiles travel to your target. Welcome to thinking about how you get range, or damage application, and have to balance that with tank. Hey at least you don't need to worry about cap for your guns on top of that. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
52
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Posted - 2012.09.18 20:18:00 -
[540] - Quote
The Cerb will get CCPs attention next year, just wait for it. |
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