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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Ronnoc Ffual
North Star Exploration Industries
0
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Posted - 2016.03.10 23:09:37 -
[211] - Quote
Hey guys, I just started up yesterday and was looking for someone or a few people who may be able to help me out over the mic with learning the ropes to this game, I've got a few things down already, but I still need some help with this. I'd definitely appreciate it. |
Golan Tissant-Mei
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.03.12 11:43:39 -
[212] - Quote
I have had a few hours time to get adjusted with the game over 3 days and a good chance to gain new skills and level them up, acquire some credits and mess around the starting system. Have experience with multiple space sims, out of which X3 is the one I spent most time in, sandbox/open-world games of any genres, mostly Paradox games (so I actually have a great deal of experience with clunky interfaces and games that need tutorials/guides in order to be played). EVE is much better put together than most of the existing space games and most of its features don't seem that complex individually, but in it it's harder for me to put the information together in order to understand what I might need to do for each new action I'm interested in. And while I mostly like the UI, some times is not that well thought through and I think those annoying issues about it is why EVE attracts so many misanthropes, as it reputation suggests.
Wanted to get started asap, so what to do? Do the tutorials some people said and there are even guides of how to start in a minimal time to be proficient at a certain profession. Can't disagree more, it's the best way to lose new players.
The tutorial itself is not necessarily bad. Why handhold players if the rest of the game will not be like that? However, when it pits the players against those limitations of the UI, it's a recepy for creating internet trolls. It's that annoying or worse. The individual issues aren't that bad, but there are a lot of weird situations that a new player might find themselves in.
Got a large list of issues that I've ran into which I gathered in notes in the game and kept a journal too, just in case I might need to do a guide for newbs and for individual activities, as the existing ones seem better suited for returning players that start over then for new comers.
Quote:Both the UI and the tutorials could benefit from this joke about jokes: if you have to explain it, it's not that good! It's the best constructive advice I could give to designers and developers of EVE. If they think the UI can be fixed easily, then they should at least have a tutorial that doesn't make the player research game mechanics outside of the game.
Have 2 examples from the business tutorials missions 2 and 3: Fitting the ship was a bit weird. When I opened the screen after stipping the existing components, I expected to be able to "fit" the ship. Nope. You have to actually open a secondary window, as much as I understand. At least the inventory. Why?? It's just a ship overview window, it's misleading. However that wouldn't be that big of a problem if the mission would explain enough in order to do that with only information you have in game - but then again, if you have to explain it.... Also, in mission 3, I have bought the required resources and mined and processed the remaining when I couldn't complete the missions with that workaround. Still doesn't work: http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/321251624522760182/0ACD26226435EF71AD395E39367F50A000990C56/
The reason why I think this should be improved is because it has no learning value to the player. There are games that add apparently "unnecessary" complexity that allows the player to understand game mechanics that they would otherwise skip or won't remember unless they would fail in those early attempts.
Another improvement that can make the entire gaming experience better and would make most basic tutorial useless would be to add better tooltips that list all of the items that infuence a contextual action. Learn from Paradox games, instead of disabling contextual options, grey them out and allow the player to understand in a tooltip the reason why they can't use that option. A good example in EVE is the requirements tab when it comes to skills. With the fitting window example I gave above, there are 2 ways that might have been better: 1) the window contained all the needed items (or not have a misleading name that create incorrect expectations), 2) was pressing the "hardpoints" from where teh weapons disappeared, those should either have functionality or give a reason why they have any functionality even though teh mouse overlay changes over them.
The reason why I insist on how basic functionalities work is because I think the format of the tutorial missions might be better, considering the game won't handhold you and I would instead want more dynamic information available in game to improve the learning experience (which let's be honest, it's one of the best things EVE has to offer a new player). |
J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6407
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Posted - 2016.03.12 14:51:14 -
[213] - Quote
While the tutorials are far from perfect and (may) need (massive) improvement, I think the easiest solution is:
Remind people they are playing a MMO and not a singleplayer game. With them, there are thousands of others logged in, both old and new. And plenty of those people are willing to help other players with some questions and answers, some more dedicated then others to that job.
*RL example: When I started my new job last year, I didn't go out there and tried to learn everything I needed by RTFM, I just asked my fellow co-workers how stuff worked, what needed to be done etc. Why invent the wheel again, when others already know that circular is the best shape*
Sure, we have the help channel, but 99% of the time I look in there is one massive troll-fest cause the lack of moderation in it by CCP and ISD. The other weird thing I still find odd, let's dump all the new players together in "Rookie help", it's the blind leading the blind. If there isn't any ISD or CCP or the odd alt of a helpful player around there it's utterly useless.
So, why not let new players by tooltip, pop up or standard evemail know that there are people that can assist them through certain channels and/or the forums.
And why not expand on the whole ISD/CCP system by having regular guys that love to help new players assist them at their leasure (this last thing I would jump in the moment it goes live). CCP, USE your extensive playerbase to get people in the game.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Golan Tissant-Mei
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.03.12 20:54:01 -
[214] - Quote
The fact that the game is a MMO and other can chime in is not really a good solution to the limitations of the tutorials and what keeps a player in or not.
Also, I did got useful suggestions on steam forums and help to the whatever wasn't clear to me for various reasons in the Rookie chat window, despite their limitations. |
ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
313
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Posted - 2016.03.13 05:18:19 -
[215] - Quote
J'Poll wrote: And why not expand on the whole ISD/CCP system by having regular guys that love to help new players assist them at their leasure (this last thing I would jump in the moment it goes live). CCP, USE your extensive playerbase to get people in the game.
As an FYI
We're working on the lack of ISD. It should be fixed soon :)
Those who have applied you're welcome to mail me or any other ISD member you see regarding your application and we can forward your request to the appropriate people.
ISD Athechu
Commander
STAR
EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources
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Lucifer Morningstar SoulTrader
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2016.03.29 15:15:44 -
[216] - Quote
Opportunities not really helpful at all
the videos are great I found them helpful
the career agent rewarding and helpful
one thing I don't like about these career agent missions I have a lot of Civilian garbage it's worthless for anything after the missions |
Dani Gallar
University of Caille Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2016.03.29 15:29:40 -
[217] - Quote
Lucifer Morningstar SoulTrader wrote:Opportunities not really helpful at all
the videos are great I found them helpful
the career agent rewarding and helpful
one thing I don't like about these career agent missions I have a lot of Civilian garbage it's worthless for anything after the missions
Most civilian 'garbage' can be reprocessed and will yield atleast a handfull of some of the more expensive minerals needed to build stuff. I personally think civilian stuff is ok even if it would be better for a new player to get T1 stuff right away.
Opportunities could work if the first one pointed you to the career agents ... the rest will be completed while doing career agent missions.
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Flying Squidwolf
Indigo Spacelanes Central Command
34
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Posted - 2016.03.29 18:30:48 -
[218] - Quote
They shouldn't provide a fitted rookie ship because folding fitting into a tutorial would be more beneficial to new players, surely? If you hang out in the Career Agent systems a lot you'll notice that the bulk of questions from new players is usually on how to fit a ship.
In Clellinon its usually asking for advice on fitting for mining. |
Joshua Lockhart
Space Rocks Industries Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2016.04.11 12:38:37 -
[219] - Quote
Career agents should be added to the opportunities map.
I cannot see an argument against this, can anyone come up with one?
I can see an argument for not leading players directly to career agents - thereby having them reach out to the community for help.
It is my perception that the function of the opportunities map is to show players what is out there, however participating in rookie chat has shown me how unpopular they are and that players on the whole do not know about career agents which is very important in teaching basics about the game in the beginning.
Apparently it takes you to them once you finish everything on the opportunities map, but honestly I do not think new players have the resources or knowledge to visit a wormhole before they do career agents. |
Ichi Uno
Jackwagon Express
0
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Posted - 2016.04.12 22:30:00 -
[220] - Quote
Add a new opportunity to find the tutorial videos.
The most common stumper I've seen Help & Rookie Help is how to use probes. Link the applicable scanning tutorial videos on the exploration carreer missions. |
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Akhier Dragonheart
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.25 06:17:12 -
[221] - Quote
Opportunities despite being the only thing the game puts forward as anything resembling a tutorial completely fail. If I hadn't researched about the game a bit before hand I would have already dropped the game with no intent to come back. My very first criticism is when displaying an icon make it match the actual icon and on top of that clearly state how to find it. In the opportunity "Engines of Creation" the Reprocess Ore step has an icon which if you go by all the previous examples your supposed to find and click on. No where does it tell you to be docked at the station and the icon is actually just the recycle symbol and called "Reprocessing Plant". It took me over 15 minutes (I kept track) to find the correct button and then get what I needed to fulfill it. Next step it wants you to get a blueprint. Good luck with that after following the previous opportunities and now probably being broke.
My next problem is that while there are apparently other resource to help (tutorial videos and career agents apparently, just learned of them reading this thread) in the about 2 hours of play I heard hide nor hair of them. Also don't fob this off as being a multiplayer game so I should have asked. When I asked about the previous problem the new player help was moving too quick and no one answer me there and in local no one was talking at all. If there are helpful things but people can't find them they aren't actually helpful.
Really in the end there was more but I just want a tutorial to play the game. We don't have game manuals anymore as more and more has been offloaded into the game itself. You can't try and take a step back when you already had it all in game. I just want to have the old tutorial as compared to opportunities I have only heard good things about its ability to teach me what I need to know. |
Edward Feynhold
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.08.21 11:07:10 -
[222] - Quote
Hey rookie here,
I think the a good addition would be to clearly state somewhere that the first encountered agents are in fact tutorial agents. I don't think it was written this way.
In general when it is about teaching a mechanic just describe it and write it as simply as possible :)
EF |
sp0q
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.09.05 07:45:44 -
[223] - Quote
I actually liked the opportunities. They are a bit snippy at times but I went through them fairly quickly - sometimes they required a second read and a bit of looking around.
The tutorial career agents were great but the transition after finishing the base 5 of them could be explained better.
Sisters of EVE plot, which I consider to be a tutorial too, since every new player is told to do it, could use more interesting rewards. Not necessarily a battlecruiser but it's a bit offputting to get only ISKs. |
Michand Unity
Funded By String
0
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Posted - 2016.09.13 07:21:21 -
[224] - Quote
Having tried out the opportunities several times now on different alt accounts, I have a few suggestions to make them more streamlined for newbies.
1) In the starting area some of the rats that aura requires you to kill will spawn behind a large collidable object, a new player who doesn't know how to pilot manually around these objects may get stuck on the edge. Solutions: Remove the large rocky object from starting area (or make it non-collidable). Make the pirates spawn closer, you don't need to force players to slowboat 30km to each one without a prop mod. Change the possible spawn location of pirates.
2) The ship refitting opportunity requires 4 actions to complete: Unfit a module (easy as new ships come fit with some), Fit a highslot module (easy as soon as a module has been unfit, it can be refit), the other required actions are sometimes not doable for a new player, sometimes none of the pirates will drop a lowslot or a midslot module, and since new players have not yet learned to use the market they may become stuck here. Solution: Make some of the loot from rats predetermined so that at least one lowslot and midslot module will always be included in loot from the six wrecks.
Overall I felt that the opportunities were much easier and more intuitive than the tutorial that I learned the game by. |
Saizer Celestias
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.09.14 09:12:08 -
[225] - Quote
I'm a returning player after three years and even back then I wasn't that well ingrained. I consider myself a rookie as, after all this time, I know nothing.
With that said, I can say the new Opportunities system completely fails as a useful newbie tutorial as I was still completely lost. All my help came from just chatting with other players in local or the help channel. |
eeski
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.09.16 09:58:05 -
[226] - Quote
i just been doing the new player experience and got to the Military mission "Cash flow for Capsuleers "(8 of 10) and it asks to fly to the hotel but there is nothing in the overview if i hadn't known i could add large collidable objects the mission it would of confused me plus it wasn't called a hotel it was something else |
Nabu Nezzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.09.24 10:49:22 -
[227] - Quote
New player here: Friendly GM Tegrino linked the thread, so I might as well write down a small thing I noticed.
Mission 1 of the exploration branch tells me to use/activate/show the "sensor overlay" but that is in fact always active. It shows you colors in different directions but that doesn't help me in finding a site. It doesn't tell you that you need to click on "Scanners" --> "Probe Scanner".
I guess those instructions refer to an older version of the game when the sensor overlay was different?
Later on, I don't think the game ever tells you how to specify a scanning area to reach 100% signal strength. I was only told in the help channel that I need to hold "alt" to see the arrows which I can then move.
Apart from that I had a problem in the business branch with a scripted enemy attacking me. When I wanted to defend myself against the Blood Raider, a message popped up telling me that it's a peaceful entity and that it would be bad if I attacked him. I tried again but the same happened. After around two minutes of him attacking me, I could counter-attack without that message interfering. It was probably some weird lag, just wanted to mention it. |
Sherman Love
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.10.10 10:10:04 -
[228] - Quote
Missions that blow your ship can really be a pain for people that hate reading, like me. Perhaps the game should limit such missions to rookie ships and frigates? |
Matthias Amdadeus Saxa-Alizze
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.06 18:38:07 -
[229] - Quote
The first exploration agent is useless if it counts as a tutorial. It only consists of a few missions telling you to fly here and there in a starting system so you know what sites look like but it doesn't actually show you how scanning works or how to interact with probes. It took almost 2 hours to complete the last mission where it actually tasks you with scanning a site because I had no clue how probes worked or how to move them. It didn't even mention the alt shift or control drags to change scan radius or grouping distance. I couldn't figure out to move them even and when I figured out how I had inadvertently moved them probably 100s of aus below the system I was in and had to drag them back It needs to include a break down of basic probe control and how to general find stuff. I've proved a few times and it takes 15-20 tries to narrow it down and get it. During the tutorial once I got it right to I managed to get the signal to 100% so I recalled my probes and tried warping to it and had to start over because it went back to 0 when I relaunched and scanned.
Also not sure how direction scan works. I see filter options and distance settings but nothing told me what it was and I keep seeing it referenced and people say they use it constantly and I haven't needed it once yet. |
Matthias Amdadeus Saxa-Alizze
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.11.06 18:43:17 -
[230] - Quote
Sherman Love wrote:Missions that blow your ship can really be a pain for people that hate reading, like me. Perhaps the game should limit such missions to rookie ships and frigates?
Agreed, that mission wasn't there when I played in 2009ish. I was expecting to learn how to do ewarfare and cap stuff in the new combat missions so I went out thinking it was just more npc killing and I just randomly blew up for no reason. I don't mind the one where your supposed to die to pirates but they don't explain how you are being attacked and your sensors are all being damped from the pirate cruisers.
They should start you off low getting used to being shot and targeted by pirates that imitate enemy capsuleers. So a generic named pirate that for the mission duration would be marked like a red 0.0 pvper. And then explain how warp scrambling works better and go into webs and al that. |
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