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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Strecs Moliko
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Posted - 2011.07.13 17:28:00 -
[1]
Please, please I'm begging you. Move a mid slot to a low or a low to a mid so I can fit this damn thing.
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Selia Rain
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:23:00 -
[2]
If that's how you think, use megathron/navy mega--->never look back?
Seriously the slot layout is one of the reasons the hyperion is such a unique ship, if it had an adjusted layout it would just be a worse mega. As is you decently can armor tank it and have plenty of mids for EW, or shield tank it and get some decent gank. If it had +1low/-1mid it would be an inferior mega, and if it had +1mid it would still negatively compare to mael.
As is, the 6 low config means you have to chose between tank or gank, or shield tank with 5 mids and have enough lows for 3x MFS and 2x TE+ a dcu.
I'm not saying it's optimal as is, as far as tier 3 BS go, it is third string after mael and baddon(not necessarily in that order mind you), but it's a unique and quite decent ship as is. There's already another pair of blaster ships with slot layouts similar to what you mentioned(mega/navy mega) and I believe they would be superior ships for your designs judging from what you've said.
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Ineka
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Ineka on 13/07/2011 18:45:32
Originally by: Strecs Moliko Please, please I'm begging you. Move a mid slot to a low or a low to a mid so I can fit this damn thing.
Take any T1 mega shield or armour fit or navy mega and you'll figure out how stupid the hyperion is has blaster platform.
Edit: this never means the mega is "over" any thing, just means that there's no reasonable option to the over versatile dominix or the mega witch are far from being on the top 20 killers, rather on the top 20 killed.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.07.13 18:54:00 -
[4]
move low to mid, change rep bonus to shield resist / hybrid tracking.
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Atridies
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:18:00 -
[5]
I think the hyperion is a great ship. 900 dps and 1000 dps tanked is fine by me. 5 mids allows for dual webs or dual cap boosters depending on your mood. more suited to smaller scale fleets, but it's plenty ganky, plenty tanky and versatile enough for me.
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Diesel47
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Posted - 2011.07.13 19:27:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Selia Rain If that's how you think, use megathron/navy mega--->never look back?
Seriously the slot layout is one of the reasons the hyperion is such a unique ship, if it had an adjusted layout it would just be a worse mega. As is you decently can armor tank it and have plenty of mids for EW, or shield tank it and get some decent gank. If it had +1low/-1mid it would be an inferior mega, and if it had +1mid it would still negatively compare to mael.
As is, the 6 low config means you have to chose between tank or gank, or shield tank with 5 mids and have enough lows for 3x MFS and 2x TE+ a dcu.
I'm not saying it's optimal as is, as far as tier 3 BS go, it is third string after mael and baddon(not necessarily in that order mind you), but it's a unique and quite decent ship as is. There's already another pair of blaster ships with slot layouts similar to what you mentioned(mega/navy mega) and I believe they would be superior ships for your designs judging from what you've said.
Kinda suffers the same fate as the rokh. While the Mael and Baddon shine above all.
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Ineka
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Posted - 2011.07.13 21:30:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Atridies I think the hyperion is a great ship. 900 dps and 1000 dps tanked is fine by me. 5 mids allows for dual webs or dual cap boosters depending on your mood. more suited to smaller scale fleets, but it's plenty ganky, plenty tanky and versatile enough for me.
It's an excellent ship for small/med gangs, out of this context it's just rubish, but the mega can fill this role too for cheaper.
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CCP Tuxford
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Posted - 2011.07.14 11:20:00 -
[8]
Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
NOTE: I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do so convincing me that it needs changing will not get you very far. _______________ |
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2011.07.14 11:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford ...If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship.
If this is the case, what happened to the Prophecy and Ferox when the Harbinger and Drake came? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.14 11:43:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: CCP Tuxford ...If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship.
If this is the case, what happened to the Prophecy and Ferox when the Harbinger and Drake came?
Both have theyre uses (ok the Ferox sux but thats because of hybrids not the ship) dont follow the trolls. - Nulla Curas |
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:57:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots
Except that armor hyperion = fail hyperion, anyone who wants an active tanked BS wants a baddon, a domi or a maelstrom. The hyperion is a passive shield, gank BS
I fully agree with what you have said, that ships must have different roles, and I can see what you were going for with the hyperion, but it doesn't really fill its niche.
If you want to turn the hyperion into an active armor BS.
-Armor HP (why does it have more buffer than a mega) +PG
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VaL Iscariot
Caldari Natural Selection.
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:34:00 -
[12]
I'm not sure what the problem with the Hyperion is. This fit is used with just a low grade slave set and some mid level gunnery implants and sports 1214 dps (my skills), 132,083 effective hit points with 31,040 physical armor hit points. CPU is extremely tight. (750/750) Dropping the energized down to Centii-C type Adaptive nano's can free up CPU, but hit the wallet a bit harder then this ship. Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV is a must.
A full slave set gets you 145,393 effective and 35,633 physical armor hit points, but i'm cheap.
CCP, NEVER change the Hyperion.
[Hyperion, Hyperion] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Monopulse Tracking Mechanism I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x4
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:36:00 -
[13]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
NOTE: I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do so convincing me that it needs changing will not get you very far.
Big difference here though, with additional lows the Hyperion could put up a very nasty active armor tank. Currently the Dominix is better at active tanking than the Hyperion due to drones not eating cap and having the additional low slot.
Could the Hyperion with an additional lowslot 'outclass' the Megathron? (as in fulfilling the same role) Not really, because the Hyperion has no tracking bonus, no 125m3 dronebay and it costs a lot more to field. Kinda the same as Abaddon vs Armageddon. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Telvani
Originally by: CCP Tuxford if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots
Except that armor hyperion = fail hyperion, anyone who wants an active tanked BS wants a baddon, a domi or a maelstrom. The hyperion is a passive shield, gank BS
I fully agree with what you have said, that ships must have different roles, and I can see what you were going for with the hyperion, but it doesn't really fill its niche.
If you want to turn the hyperion into an active armor BS.
-Armor HP (why does it have more buffer than a mega) +PG
Because an active rep ship needs to have a thick armour belt to survive the first cycle of repping due to it coming at the end of the cycle.
Either the PG needs increasing or the PG requirements of large reppers needs changing, cos they're insane --------------------------------------------
SF Recruiting |
Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:41:00 -
[15]
Originally by: VaL Iscariot I'm not sure what the problem with the Hyperion is. This fit is used with just a low grade slave set and some mid level gunnery implants and sports 1214 dps (my skills), 132,083 effective hit points with 31,040 physical armor hit points. CPU is extremely tight. (750/750) Dropping the energized down to Centii-C type Adaptive nano's can free up CPU, but hit the wallet a bit harder then this ship. Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV is a must.
A full slave set gets you 145,393 effective and 35,633 physical armor hit points, but i'm cheap.
CCP, NEVER change the Hyperion.
[Hyperion, Hyperion] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Monopulse Tracking Mechanism I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x4
Because you're ignoring the active rep bonus, at which point you may as well use a mega as it'll out perform it at near every turn --------------------------------------------
SF Recruiting |
Whiteknight03
Theoretical Research
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:42:00 -
[16]
It's a pity, because the Hyperion and Rokh both have great models. However, perhaps once we get a hybrids fix they might become viable.
Incidentally, does anyone have any good level 4 mission fits for either ship?
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: VaL Iscariot I'm not sure what the problem with the Hyperion is. This fit is used with just a low grade slave set and some mid level gunnery implants and sports 1214 dps (my skills), 132,083 effective hit points with 31,040 physical armor hit points. CPU is extremely tight. (750/750) Dropping the energized down to Centii-C type Adaptive nano's can free up CPU, but hit the wallet a bit harder then this ship. Advanced Weapon Upgrades IV is a must.
A full slave set gets you 145,393 effective and 35,633 physical armor hit points, but i'm cheap.
CCP, NEVER change the Hyperion.
[Hyperion, Hyperion] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Monopulse Tracking Mechanism I
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I Large Trimark Armor Pump I
Ogre II x4
... and then you post a fit ignoring the bonus... I call TROLL Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Buzzmong
Aliastra
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:36:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Buzzmong on 14/07/2011 15:36:07 Holy ****, they've let Tuxford out of his cell.
o/ --------------------------------- Go Web! Go! |
Akuma Tsukai
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:05:00 -
[19]
if anything, give it 25m more of band and dronebay. pleaaaase?:) Thats the actual reason i never used the ship ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me. |
Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
Either the PG needs increasing or the PG requirements of large reppers needs changing, cos they're insane
This
You'd probably see more active armor tanks out there the large reppers didn't require 2k+ pg each. Meaning that to fit an active tank you automatically gimp your dps because there is no frigging way to run an active armor tank with even medium tier guns. Now if they required say 500pg like a 1600mm plate you'd see more active armor or bleeder tanks rolling around on Battleships.
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Strecs Moliko
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Posted - 2011.07.14 18:36:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Strecs Moliko on 14/07/2011 18:40:38
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
NOTE: I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do so convincing me that it needs changing will not get you very far.
Thank you for the reply,
The fit I'm trying out right now is going to get me flamed by everyone else but what the hell
----------------------- Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Overdrive Injector System II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Warp Scrambler II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L Ion Blaster Cannon II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge L
Large Auxiliary Thrusters I Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
x5 Warrior TP-300 x5 Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II ---------------------
For me a blaster battle ships biggest weakness within current mechanics is speed so being able to go 1.2k a sec in a Hyp is awesome but the tank sucks, I need one more mid slot. Can you post example fit of what you guys envisioned when you made the ship, most of the fits I've found online ignore the armor repping bonus and the ones that do don't use all 8 high slots.
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Veryez
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Posted - 2011.07.14 20:02:00 -
[22]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do...
Some of us are very happy about this.....
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Hash Arzi
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Posted - 2011.07.14 21:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
NOTE: I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do so convincing me that it needs changing will not get you very far.
Good to see CCP reads this from time to time. Kudos to you
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:52:00 -
[24]
I always thought the Tier 3 BSs should all be very similar.
The Mael has an active tank bonus, 6 mids and 5 lows (shield repper) The Rohk has a shield resistance bonus, 6 mids and 5 lows (shield tanker) The Hype has an active tank bonus, 5 mids and 6 lows (armour repper) The Abaddon has an armour resist bonus, 4 mids and 7 lows (armour tanker)???
To me, it makes sense to move one mid to the lows for the Hype, or introduce damage mods for the mid slots. And it needs more PG.
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.15 04:12:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ultim8Evil
Originally by: CCP Tuxford ...If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship.
If this is the case, what happened to the Prophecy and Ferox when the Harbinger and Drake came?
Proph/Harb maybe, but Drake/Ferox are two completely different ships. One is a turret ship, one is missiles. ------------------------
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.07.15 08:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
I hope you realize that you tried to put a little better active tanking mega into the game exactly with the patch that killed active megas(HP boost/rigs) and never looked at this hull again. Also if the hype is fielded in a gang it will be shield tanked(compleetly ignoring his role, because this is actually the only thing what makes it attractive compared to the mega in this kind of gangs).
Also keep in mind that you basically deleted blaster BS from the table of useful solo/small gang ships with the web/scram/speed changes 3 years ago(outside of "BS spawning in front of me" undock range pvp).
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.15 12:48:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Strecs Moliko Can you post example fit of what you guys envisioned when you made the ship, most of the fits I've found online ignore the armor repping bonus and the ones that do make use of active armor mod don't use all 8 high slots for power grid reason.
I, sadly, suspect it would be something like this:
[Hyperion, Vision]
Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L Neutron Blaster Cannon II, Federation Navy Antimatter Charge L
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Stasis Webifier II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Large Armor Repairer II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I
Ogre II x4
you can drop the Large Algid Hybrid Administrations Unit I if you're willing to go faction on the EANMs, and you'll need to drop to best named on the mids, as otherwise you're CPU strapped. Doing so, moeans you can fit a damage rig instead though, so worth it. However, the tank is pretty weak imo, and the DPS is nothing to write home about. So in short, not worth using. --------------------------------------------
SF Recruiting |
Trinkets friend
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Posted - 2011.07.18 08:35:00 -
[28]
You guys...arguing like trolls about shield or armour tanking your hyperion when you ALL KNOW it is a HULL tanker.
[Hyperion, Hyperion: Hullperion] Reinforced Bulkheads II Reinforced Bulkheads II Reinforced Bulkheads II Reinforced Bulkheads II Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Sensor Booster II ECCM - Magnetometric II 100MN Afterburner II
Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II Neutron Blaster Cannon II
Large Hybrid Burst Aerator I Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Empty
Ogre II
1321 DPS overheated is MANLY 97K EHP is MANLY
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Lady Spank
Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta
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Posted - 2011.07.18 11:05:00 -
[29]
The lack of a tracking bonus really hit this ship when the web nerf came in. Not even having a utility slot for a neut doesn't help much either (in slowing targets down in order to track them).
It still has uses, but it could be so much more. ~~~
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Kenerian
The Clean Up Crew
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Posted - 2011.07.19 15:57:00 -
[30]
Originally by: CCP Tuxford Its not really my place to speak about ship balance but since you asked why I guess I can answer that as I was very much involved in the creation of these ships.
When we created those we of course already had two ships in the same role of the same class so figuring out how the new would fit in was difficult. In the case of the Hyperion we had to make it coexist with the Megathron. If they are too similar one would outclass the other and we'd end up with an essentially one useless ship. By moving a med slot to a low slot we'd make the slot layout identical to the megathrons and if we move a low slot to a med slot we have an armor tanking ship with 5 low slots.
It's funny that you'll accept that this is a good ship for small/medium gangs because that is exactly the role we had in mind for it.
NOTE: I'm no longer in game design and have as much to say about stat changes as you guys do so convincing me that it needs changing will not get you very far.
Winning.
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