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Verity Sovereign
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:27:00 -
[1]
I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
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Midrahh
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:37:00 -
[2]
No. Awful idea.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.13 22:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Midrahh No. Awful idea.
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.14 00:11:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Llambda
Originally by: Midrahh No. Awful idea.
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Verity Sovereign
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Posted - 2011.07.14 02:56:00 -
[5]
Care to elaborate on why it would be so bad?
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.14 03:11:00 -
[6]
... really? Ok..
Eve is a multiplayer game. Need different guns? Bring a corpie.
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Barbie D0ll
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Posted - 2011.07.14 05:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Headerman ... really? Ok..
Eve is a supercapital game. Need different guns? Bring a supercarrier.
FYP
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Verity Sovereign
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Posted - 2011.07.14 07:07:00 -
[8]
Well, I don't see it hurting gameplay.
It would give a little more flexibility in ship loadouts.
It would also make some transitions easier, ie: Say you are using a BC with medium turrets. Then you train the BS skill to lvl 2 or 3 and buy a BS.
Now its going to take 4+ days to train gunnery to lvl 5 and train the heavy turrets. So in the meantime, you use medium turrets, and still get the ship bonuses.
It would be nice I think.
I can also see some situations where "underfitting" the guns may be desirable enough if the guns still get the ship bonuses.
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Dark Voynix
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2011.07.14 07:18:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Verity Sovereign Well, I don't see it hurting gameplay.
It would give a little more flexibility in ship loadouts.
It would also make some transitions easier, ie: Say you are using a BC with medium turrets. Then you train the BS skill to lvl 2 or 3 and buy a BS.
Now its going to take 4+ days to train gunnery to lvl 5 and train the heavy turrets. So in the meantime, you use medium turrets, and still get the ship bonuses.
It would be nice I think.
I can also see some situations where "underfitting" the guns may be desirable enough if the guns still get the ship bonuses.
If you feel too forced with those bonuses, the get ships with tanking bonus instead of damage bonuses and then use the weapong you wish.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.07.14 08:46:00 -
[10]
Ships are bonused the way they are for a reason. Need smaller weapons? Fly the right ship for it. _________________________________
ROCKET STATUS: FIX IN PROGRESS... |
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Thenoran
Caldari Tranquility Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.14 08:51:00 -
[11]
Cruisers would decimate frigates (and dessies even more) and Battleships would decimate Cruisers (and BCs even more). The only ship I know of that bonuses all sizes is the Caracal, since the AML Caracal is a well known fit. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.14 09:08:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Thenoran Cruisers would decimate frigates (and dessies even more) and Battleships would decimate Cruisers (and BCs even more). The only ship I know of that bonuses all sizes is the Caracal, since the AML Caracal is a well known fit.
Supercarrier
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.14 09:23:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Verity Sovereign Well, I don't see it hurting gameplay....
It won't help it very much either. Would make gimmick fits a little less gimmicky but that's about it.
Amarr/Caldari would benefit the most from it I think, but 'meh'. Just going to ride out the Minnie FoTM storm and wait for something else to rise to the top.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.14 10:21:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Barbie D0ll
Originally by: Headerman ... really? Ok..
Eve is a supercapital game. Need different guns? Bring a supercarrier.
FYP
this.
EVE is now supercarrier online. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Whiteknight03
Theoretical Research
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:22:00 -
[15]
Not a bad idea, but I don't think it should be implemented across the board. Maybe for certain ship classes, that are perhaps underpowered now, to acquire an extra role? Off the top of my head . . . Maller (Only has a cap use bonus, so this may be fairly irrelevant) Tier 1 Battlecruisers Typhoon (Supposed to be the king of variety and all) Celestis Bellicose
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.14 12:48:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Verity Sovereign I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around - Nulla Curas |
Cassiopeia Andromedae
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Posted - 2011.07.14 13:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Verity Sovereign I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around
If bonuses would apply to ALL SIZES of weapons, it wouldn't mean that you could FIT ALL SIZES of weapons to your ship..................................
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Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:03:00 -
[18]
Some funny replies in this thread... pomposity + ignorance = l0lz
Aaaanyway IMO as the game is now there is nothing wrong with the idea tbh... Yes fitting a BC with frig guns with rof bonus would hurt your Daredevil somehwat but at the same time would make this guy an instaroflmao loss mail to another BC...
The original idea was that you couldn't fit fore example BS for anti frig support so that each fleet would have to carry an AF or three to kill enemy ceptors and such drivel... in practice it has rarely ever worked like this anyway and therefore if you want to gimp your ship with 1/3 of the dps then a 5% damage bonus wont make you OP any time soon...
In fact IMO one could go as far as give e Mega with 125II rail 'pods' something like 400 dps and it would still not be OP because when said Mega meets mr L Blaster Mega its not so funny anymore (or when he fails to break a maller tackling him etc etc etc)...
I am as bitter, as purist and as misereable a vet as you are likely to come accross but this particular pocket of prejudice I do not share...
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: ChromeStriker on 14/07/2011 14:07:54
Originally by: Cassiopeia Andromedae
Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Verity Sovereign I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around
If bonuses would apply to ALL SIZES of weapons, it wouldn't mean that you could FIT ALL SIZES of weapons to your ship..................................
Haha gotchya you can fit missiles bigger than your ship to SB's why not the others ? - Nulla Curas |
Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ChromeStriker Edited by: ChromeStriker on 14/07/2011 14:07:54
Originally by: Cassiopeia Andromedae
Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Verity Sovereign I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around
If bonuses would apply to ALL SIZES of weapons, it wouldn't mean that you could FIT ALL SIZES of weapons to your ship..................................
Haha gotchya you can fit missiles bigger than your ship to SB's why not the others ?
Two reasons: powergrid & cpu Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Verity Sovereign I noticed the description of the Hurricane does not specify "medium" projectile turrets. Do its bonuses apply to small projectile turrets as well?
I think weapon "size" requirements for bonuses should be dropped for all ships.
If I'm flying an Amarr BS, I think I should be able to fit medium lasers and still get the same damage and cap bonuses as if I had fit large lasers.
Likewise, I think it would be nice if I got kinetic missile bonuses if I was flying a drake with small missile launchers (lets say I was standing grinding low level missions or something like that).
Does anyone else agree with me that the ship weapon bonuses should depend only on the weapon class but not size?
+1 The idea is not as bad as it seems.
Note : He is only talking about the skip weapons bonus, not about the fitting requirements.
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ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.07.14 14:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: ChromeStriker Edited by: ChromeStriker on 14/07/2011 14:07:54
Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Verity Sovereign
i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around
If bonuses would apply to ALL SIZES of weapons, it wouldn't mean that you could FIT ALL SIZES of weapons to your ship..................................
Haha gotchya you can fit missiles bigger than your ship to SB's why not the others ?
Two reasons: powergrid & cpu
Yes yes theyre important too but if you can get a battle ship with bonuses to 150mm autos then by all accounts a rifter should be able to fit a 1400 and say screw you too lol - Nulla Curas |
Kastsumi Kobayariel
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:11:00 -
[23]
I wouldn't mind a practical use for my tachyon harbinger or 220mm AC claw.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:33:00 -
[24]
This idea is awful. The inability to use small guns to the fullest potential is an intended weakness of larger ships.
There's nothing stopping you from putting smaller guns on a big ship, and the fact that you can typically fit more of them is already enough of an advantage that there's no need to stack ship bonuses on as well.
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:35:00 -
[25]
Why fly a frigate then?
It's use also to help the little guy at least GTFO against the bigger ship.
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Darryl Ward
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:49:00 -
[26]
This is an awful idea.
If you want to grind low level missions, use a Kestrel or Caracal, assuming you can't fly an assault frigate.
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Verity Sovereign
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Posted - 2011.07.14 15:51:00 -
[27]
To clarify, I do not support "up-gunning" small ships. As others noted, power grid requirements would prevent this. If through reactor control units/auxiliary power cores/etc, you some how manage to fit 1 medium turret on a frigate, then I guess its fair for that frig to get bonuses to apply to it. The fit will be gimped anyway because of the concessions made to obtain the requisite PG.
As I already mentioned, this would really only apply to "underfitting" ships. As others noted, it would be a severe DPS nerf on your ship.
It seems the Hurricane already has size-independant bonuses, or is this just a poor bonus description?
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:03:00 -
[28]
Originally by: ChromeStriker
Originally by: Crellion
Two reasons: powergrid & cpu
Yes yes theyre important too but if you can get a battle ship with bonuses to 150mm autos then by all accounts a rifter should be able to fit a 1400 and say screw you too lol
If a rifter had 10000PG it could, but it doesn't, it can't so it would never be able to.
The reason SB's can mount BS sized weapons is that they have a role bonus that reduces the PG needs of Siege launchers by 99.65% and has sufficient CPU to run them.
No other ships have that bonus so your argument is the ravings of an idiot who doesn't understand the game.
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Exploited Engineer
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Posted - 2011.07.14 16:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: ChromeStriker i see one fundemental flaw with this....
1400mm arti Rifters Torpedo kestrals Ion Blaster Tristans and giga monster lazzzer punishers
However cool this would be it would mean a broken game all around
None of the above would happen, since you can't fit the ships this way due to grid/CPU limitations.
You could probably cram a cruise launcher or two on a drake, though.
And it would be possible to use guns one or two sizes SMALLER than the ship class, e.g. 150mm ACs on a battleship. That'll probably chew up frigates just fine, but not much else.
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Lady Skank
Ban Evasion inc
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Posted - 2011.07.15 01:51:00 -
[30]
Its not such a terrible idea as some people posting here make it out to be, anytime someone downgraded their weapons to a smaller class they would also lose damage output so you wouldn't get a 7x medium pulse II Armageddon dishing out 1k DPS with frigate tracking for example. There isn't much point to making these changes though, bigger ships have enough ways of dealing with smaller ships like neuts and drones.
You could also end up breaking ships that are already balanced at the moment, it would open a huge can of worms and god only knows what kind of unbalanced mess it would leave so it wouldn't be worth making changes like this. If players really want they can still downgrade their guns and do immense damage to smaller ship classes. If you use the medium pulse II Geddon example it does over 300/250 DPS (Faction multi/scorch) with a full rack of medium pulse and two heat sinks, that's more than enough to annihilate large gangs of frigates with ease when you consider its EHP relative to the frigs EHP, and then of course you have drones and neuts.
So overall its not really worth the risk of breaking a lot of ships, and would you really want to see ships that are currently balanced have to be changed to balance their use of small and medium weapons?
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