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stoicfaux
1650
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
For those who haven't noticed, CCP is overhauling Heavy Missiles and changing TDs, TCs, and TEs to affect missiles.
This is but one step in an overarching plan to enable work on WiS again (but without the rioting.)
CCP's plan is to slowly change Mission Running to require more PvP oriented fits in order to get more carebears into PvP! Players thus generate their own content and the PvE dev resources are then shifted to finishing WiS... This time *everyone* is too busy PvP'ing to notice the lack of updates over the next 18 month WiS dev cycle.
Proof: 0) Carebear Mission Runners (CBMRs for short) are predominately missile focused and run missions in Caldari space.
1) CCP fixed NPC ECM to actually work properly. This forces folks to fit ECCM since "everyone" runs missions in Caldari space against Guristas, i.e. get CBMRs used to the idea of fitting modules that don't center around tank/gank.
2) CCP introduced the ASBs. They provide such a huge shield boost so that CBMRs will want to use them and get used to the idea of cap boosting, buffers, and picking the time and place to shield boost instead of just perma-tanking with a Gist-X XL or Pithum-A MSB.
3.1) CCP is nerfing HMLs. CCP is just saying, "Stop using missiles! They're not that great in PvP or PvE! Train guns so you'll be ready for PvP-esque missions that are coming next year, you dolts!"
3.2) CCP is buffing TDs (which buffs NPCs that use TDs.) Just another attempt to get missile CBMRs to consider fitting TCs instead of another tanking module as a step on the road to PvP fittings.
4) CCP is overhauling the ship lines to ensure that *all* ships have a PvP role. This is a content rush by CCP that should keep the players busy for a couple of years trying to optimize for PvP before the players get bored and want new ships, modules, content, nerfs, buffs, tears, and whining.
The Future: 5) CCP buffs NPC target painters. Officially, TPs get buffed to avoid making them mostly obsoleted by TCs and TEs. The Reality is that missions in Minmatar space become much harder as Angel TPs allow Angels to do more DPS to player ships.
6) CCP buffs sensor dampers. Officially, Sensor Dampers get buffed because the other e-war is so much better now. The Reality is that missions in Gallente space become much more difficult and tedious.
7) PvP-esque Missions. Missions now have dramatically fewer NPCs, but the few that remain are tougher and require PvP fits (but without the need to buffer tank, see ASBs.)
8.1) Sleeper AI in missions. Requires PvP fittings, buffer tanks, spider tanking, etc..
8.2) Level 4s require groups to complete (i.e. spider tanking, logistics.) Level 3s remain for the solo MMO player.
9) Moar PvP! Now that most CBMRs are now PvP fitted and "trained" in PvP basics, Faction Warfare and null-sec see a boost in numbers. Low-sec sees an initial population boost until low-sec people realize that *everyone* in low-sec shoots back now.
10) Profit! (for CCP)
11) Players generate more of their own content, aka "Emergent Gameplay(tm)". PvP'ers are busy blowing up ships. Industrialists are busy making ships. Miners are busy mining minerals. The Goons are like, "Excuse me! We're still the center of the Eve universe! Pay attention to us moar!"
12) The majority of developers are re-allocated to work on WiS. A core team remains to implement tweaks and buffs plus the occasional over-zealous hatchet job to keep the players distracted.
13) WiS enjoys an 18 month dev cycle before the players realize that they've been too busy HAVING FUN to notice the lack of content updates.
Possible Side Effects a) Fewer NPCs in missions, less bounties, reduction in ISK faucet. b) Deadspace market for tanking mods spikes and then crashes hard. CBMRs are initially desperate to buy perma-tanking modules until they realize that they're not needed (see ASBs.) c) Mission running bots get hit hard. Harder to bot for the short term until the PvP AI scripts are written. d) T2 market takes off. Lots of people unwilling to risk faction/deadspace gank/tank mods until eve-survival is updated. e) Chribba adds a few servers to the eve-survival cluster. f) Tears become harder to harvest since everyone is PvP fit. g) The calls to make low-sec more useful increase.
tl;dr - The missile changes are all part of a Plan(tm) to work on WiS again. You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
308
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
so, messing with missiles is supposed to distract us from crappy WiS?
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
762
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Op is a horrible troll and should be ashamed of himself. |
stoicfaux
1650
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
highonpop wrote:so, messing with missiles is supposed to distract us from crappy WiS? No, it's one element in a multi-year plan. Remember, CCP wants Eve to be all things and not just an internet spaceships game with an economy. WiS (and DUST) enable CCP to expand into other markets instead of being limited to a niche audience.
I, for one, welcome our CCP PLANNING DEPARTMENT: WORLD CONQUEST of ALL MMO GAMING MARKETS overlords.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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highonpop
Eve Liberation Force Fatal Ascension
308
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:highonpop wrote:so, messing with missiles is supposed to distract us from crappy WiS? No, it's one element in a multi-year plan. Remember, CCP wants Eve to be all things and not just an internet spaceships game with an economy. WiS (and DUST) enable CCP to expand into other markets instead of being limited to a niche audience. I, for one, welcome our CCP PLANNING DEPARTMENT: WORLD CONQUEST of ALL MMO GAMING MARKETS overlords.
What does that have to do with missiles?
http://www.soundboard.com/sb/Very%20best%20of%20Makalu%20Zarya
R.I.P Vile Rat http://evemaps.dotlan.net/live/Outpost/Rename/2012-09-12 |
stoicfaux
1650
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
What does that have to do with missiles?[/quote]
Item 3.3 added. Thanks for catching that.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
263
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sounds a lot more like they want to eliminate the "pve" vs "pvp" build, which makes a lot more sense than the op.
People tend to avoid mission running outside of high sec because the ship fits to run the missions tend to be counter to what you would need to survive a pvp encounter. There's little incentive for a mission runner to put themselves into a position that they might have to fight another player when their ships are fitted to deal with npc's who require a different approach.
CCP should have been setting up NPC's all along to mimic pvp encounters, instead of making them require entirely different fits. This is a common problem with most mmo's that have uch a focus on pvp. Developers tend to develop different gameplay for each aspects of the game, which has a tendency to turn people off because the experiences are completely different.
If the NPC's behaved more like players, and required the same types of fits as would be needed when fighting other players, the transition from pve to pvp would be much smoother and organic to those players who aren't actively seeking other players to fight against.
If shooting an NPC ship is relatively the same as shooting another players ship, then that distinction between doing pve, and "omg another player is shooting me" becomes much less defined and it really just becomes "shooting ships" regardless if that ship is an NPC or another player.
However, I'd like to see them start doing real work on WiS, I just think your speculation is way off base. |
Abannan
Moira. Villore Accords
30
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
highonpop wrote:stoicfaux wrote:highonpop wrote:so, messing with missiles is supposed to distract us from crappy WiS? No, it's one element in a multi-year plan. Remember, CCP wants Eve to be all things and not just an internet spaceships game with an economy. WiS (and DUST) enable CCP to expand into other markets instead of being limited to a niche audience. I, for one, welcome our CCP PLANNING DEPARTMENT: WORLD CONQUEST of ALL MMO GAMING MARKETS overlords. What does that have to do with missiles?
Everything! Did you not read the thread?! |
Aziesta
Sathainn Braithrean Cartel Apocalypse Now.
20
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Possible Side Effects a) Fewer NPCs in missions, less bounties, reduction in ISK faucet. b) Deadspace market for tanking mods spikes and then crashes hard. CBMRs are initially desperate to buy perma-tanking modules until they realize that they're not needed (see ASBs.) c) Mission running bots get hit hard. Harder to bot for the short term until the PvP AI scripts are written. d) T2 market takes off. Lots of people unwilling to risk faction/deadspace gank/tank mods until eve-survival is updated. e) Chribba adds a few servers to the eve-survival cluster. f) Tears become harder to harvest since everyone is PvP fit. g) The calls to make low-sec more useful increase. Ignoring for a second the questionable logic used to arrive at this list, point to the entry you think is a bad idea? |
stoicfaux
1650
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aziesta wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Possible Side Effects a) Fewer NPCs in missions, less bounties, reduction in ISK faucet. b) Deadspace market for tanking mods spikes and then crashes hard. CBMRs are initially desperate to buy perma-tanking modules until they realize that they're not needed (see ASBs.) c) Mission running bots get hit hard. Harder to bot for the short term until the PvP AI scripts are written. d) T2 market takes off. Lots of people unwilling to risk faction/deadspace gank/tank mods until eve-survival is updated. e) Chribba adds a few servers to the eve-survival cluster. f) Tears become harder to harvest since everyone is PvP fit. g) The calls to make low-sec more useful increase. Ignoring for a second the questionable logic used to arrive at this list, point to the entry you think is a bad idea? Why would I think any of them are bad? Well, "e" might be bad for Chribba.
More importantly, did you hear "WiS is coming!" and automatically assume a negative viewpoint was warranted? I for one, would be impressed if this really was CCP's plan. It would imply that they have some serious long term goals, that they prefer gradual change as opposed to rapid, harsh change, and that they potentially have leadership to push it through.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
585
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Sounds a lot more like they want to eliminate the "pve" vs "pvp" build, which makes a lot more sense than the op.
People tend to avoid mission running outside of high sec because the ship fits to run the missions tend to be counter to what you would need to survive a pvp encounter. There's little incentive for a mission runner to put themselves into a position that they might have to fight another player when their ships are fitted to deal with npc's who require a different approach.
CCP should have been setting up NPC's all along to mimic pvp encounters, instead of making them require entirely different fits. This is a common problem with most mmo's that have uch a focus on pvp. Developers tend to develop different gameplay for each aspects of the game, which has a tendency to turn people off because the experiences are completely different.
If the NPC's behaved more like players, and required the same types of fits as would be needed when fighting other players, the transition from pve to pvp would be much smoother and organic to those players who aren't actively seeking other players to fight against.
If shooting an NPC ship is relatively the same as shooting another players ship, then that distinction between doing pve, and "omg another player is shooting me" becomes much less defined and it really just becomes "shooting ships" regardless if that ship is an NPC or another player.
However, I'd like to see them start doing real work on WiS, I just think your speculation is way off base.
The problem would not be, "omg another player is shooting at me" but, "omg several other ships are shooting at me"
Solo mission running is very popular in Eve. You want fries with that? |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
564
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
all i read is ccp plans to make the game fun again to the point they can finish older content and make that fun too?
cool
Ok, so you've corrected my spelling,do you care to make a valid point? -áThere are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... |
stoicfaux
1651
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:all i read is ccp plans to make the game fun again to the point they can finish older content and make that fun too? cool Exactly.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
|
Shizuken
Venerated Stars
93
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 18:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
My eyes are bleeding |
Jett0
Surface Warfare Tribal Band
274
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 00:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
And then they merge EVE, WoD, and Dust into a single game? Occasionally plays sober |
Selinate
995
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 00:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Don't forget the 10% decrease in heavy pulses.
In other words, this buff will hardly affect me (other than the fact that I've been spending a good amount of time training for a tengu for the sole purpose of PvE), I'll just get to use a laser legion with a bit more "oomph" in the fit now...
And I'll also welcome WiS if it comes. Dust beta players are convinced that WiS is going to come with the release of Dust.
I'm not kidding. They act like they have some secret source that I don't saying that WiS is not abandoned for the most part like many Eve players think it is. |
Keen Fallsword
Skyway Patrol
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 02:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:For those who haven't noticed, CCP is overhauling Heavy Missiles and changing TDs, TCs, and TEs to affect missiles. This is but one step in an overarching plan to enable work on WiS again (but without the rioting.) CCP's plan is to slowly change Mission Running to require more PvP oriented fits in order to get more carebears into PvP! Players thus generate their own content and the PvE dev resources are then shifted to finishing WiS... This time *everyone* is too busy PvP'ing to notice the lack of updates over the next 18 month WiS dev cycle. Proof:0) Carebear Mission Runners (CBMRs for short) are predominately missile focused and run missions in Caldari space. 1) CCP fixed NPC ECM to actually work properly. This forces folks to fit ECCM since "everyone" runs missions in Caldari space against Guristas, i.e. get CBMRs used to the idea of fitting modules that don't center around tank/gank. 2) CCP introduced the ASBs. They provide such a huge shield boost so that CBMRs will want to use them and get used to the idea of cap boosting, buffers, and picking the time and place to shield boost instead of just perma-tanking with a Gist-X XL or Pithum-A MSB. 3.1) CCP is nerfing HMLs. CCP is just saying, "Stop using missiles! They're not that great in PvP or PvE! Train guns so you'll be ready for PvP-esque missions that are coming next year, you dolts!" 3.2) CCP is buffing TDs (which buffs NPCs that use TDs.) Just another attempt to get missile CBMRs to consider fitting TCs instead of another tanking module as a step on the road to PvP fittings. edit: 3.3) CCP nerfs Heavy Missiles due to their popularity in PvE and as a means of encouraging more active maneuvering during missions, i.e. get in range or switch to guns (and battleships) and learn how to manage tracking. 4) CCP is overhauling the ship lines to ensure that *all* ships have a PvP role. This is a content rush by CCP that should keep the players busy for a couple of years trying to optimize for PvP before the players get bored and want new ships, modules, content, nerfs, buffs, tears, and whining. The Future:5) CCP buffs NPC target painters. Officially, TPs get buffed to avoid making them mostly obsoleted by TCs and TEs. The Reality is that missions in Minmatar space become much harder as Angel TPs allow Angels to do more DPS to player ships. 6) CCP buffs sensor dampers. Officially, Sensor Dampers get buffed because the other e-war is so much better now. The Reality is that missions in Gallente space become much more difficult and tedious. 7) PvP-esque Missions. Missions now have dramatically fewer NPCs, but the few that remain are tougher and require PvP fits (but without the need to buffer tank, see ASBs.) 8.1) Sleeper AI in missions. Requires PvP fittings, buffer tanks, spider tanking, etc.. 8.2) Level 4s require groups to complete (i.e. spider tanking, logistics.) Level 3s remain for the solo MMO player. 9) Moar PvP! Now that most CBMRs are now PvP fitted and "trained" in PvP basics, Faction Warfare and null-sec see a boost in numbers. Low-sec sees an initial population boost until low-sec people realize that *everyone* in low-sec shoots back now. 10) Profit! (for CCP) 11) Players generate more of their own content, aka "Emergent Gameplay(tm)". PvP'ers are busy blowing up ships. Industrialists are busy making ships. Miners are busy mining minerals. The Goons are like, "Excuse me! We're still the center of the Eve universe! Pay attention to us moar!" 12) The majority of developers are re-allocated to work on WiS. A core team remains to implement tweaks and buffs plus the occasional over-zealous hatchet job to keep the players distracted. 13) WiS enjoys an 18 month dev cycle before the players realize that they've been too busy HAVING FUN to notice the lack of content updates. Possible Side Effectsa) Fewer NPCs in missions, less bounties, reduction in ISK faucet. b) Deadspace market for tanking mods spikes and then crashes hard. CBMRs are initially desperate to buy perma-tanking modules until they realize that they're not needed (see ASBs.) c) Mission running bots get hit hard. Harder to bot for the short term until the PvP AI scripts are written. d) T2 market takes off. Lots of people unwilling to risk faction/deadspace gank/tank mods until eve-survival is updated. e) Chribba adds a few servers to the eve-survival cluster. f) Tears become harder to harvest since everyone is PvP fit. g) The calls to make low-sec more useful increase. tl;dr - The missile changes are all part of a Plan(tm) to work on WiS again.
Stop drinking Or change pils...
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Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1404
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 02:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
No offense but the wall wasn't even remotely fun and doesn't make any sense.
Only fact in the entire wall was that they have to restart the wis development in some point. People want out from their cq's and use their barbie dolls to something meaningful and interact with others. In other words content to the wis environment. Preferably something related to industry and marketing, in game politics, in game chilling with friends, missioning & exploration, pvp related activities which can be both psychological or actual confrontations, corp/alliance wide competitions and showoffs, stealing and smuggling. I can continue the list but you get the point.
There is room in this game to expand. If we have 2-3x more ppl logging in there will be more ppl outside flying the ships and doing pvp even if stations have some meaningful and interesting content to play in. Resources to stations have to come from somewhere and they don't just appear from thin air like in wow fantasy.
Get |
Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
88
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nerf Hi sec NPC belt rats i cant take em!!!
*relevant as, "it put ore down in can or it gets the hose again" |
Cede Forster
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
89
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
or it is b)
CCP is sick of people claiming "Caldari is the CHOSEN race"
or c)
DEV hates drake
or d)
they calculated where the most skillpoints are (Heavy missile Specialization) and decided - lets screw them and force them to train HAM -
or e)
they just hate drakes and tengu
or f)
100mn Tengu was just too strong
because we all know why they really want you to use HAM - check your PG |
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Azami Nevinyrall
Frog Steamers
435
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
If troll.... 1/10
If serious.........biomass Do you know what a sh*t-barometer is? It measures the sh*t-pressure in the air, did you hear that? The sounds of the whispering winds of sh*t... |
Malice Redeemer
Redeemer Group Joint Venture Conglomerate
124
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Op is a horrible troll and should be ashamed of himself.
I suggest that he is not a troll, but is actually insane |
loki energon
Voodoo Children Workers Trade Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 03:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
i think your tinfoil hat has a hole in it.......... kill em all. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2428
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 04:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:Aziesta wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Possible Side Effects a) Fewer NPCs in missions, less bounties, reduction in ISK faucet. b) Deadspace market for tanking mods spikes and then crashes hard. CBMRs are initially desperate to buy perma-tanking modules until they realize that they're not needed (see ASBs.) c) Mission running bots get hit hard. Harder to bot for the short term until the PvP AI scripts are written. d) T2 market takes off. Lots of people unwilling to risk faction/deadspace gank/tank mods until eve-survival is updated. e) Chribba adds a few servers to the eve-survival cluster. f) Tears become harder to harvest since everyone is PvP fit. g) The calls to make low-sec more useful increase. Ignoring for a second the questionable logic used to arrive at this list, point to the entry you think is a bad idea? Why would I think any of them are bad? Well, "e" might be bad for Chribba. More importantly, did you hear "WiS is coming!" and automatically assume a negative viewpoint was warranted? I for one, would be impressed if this really was CCP's plan. It would imply that they have some serious long term goals, that they prefer gradual change as opposed to rapid, harsh change, and that they potentially have leadership to push it through. I could live with that plan as well. More fun for the players not only being the end result, but reinforced every step of the way.
The couple of frigates that have been balanced have revitalized combat in both FW and Red vs Blue (among others)... the changes coming with the next release alone will make it almost a new game for many.
It's very, very nice to hear "frigate fleet inbound" and not be able to predict exactly what the make up will be before you lay eyes on them. When the bulk of the ships are completed combat in EVE will enter a renaissance period it hasn't seen since the early, misty days before dirt was invented.
The Heavy Missile nerf (and buffs that are inbound) are all part and parcel of that rebalancing... and long overdue. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Buck Futz
Suddenly Violence Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
107
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 05:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Welcome to the darkside, stoicfaux. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
362
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 14:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
I hope that happens. I want my bar monopoly in Gallente Space! |
Ghazu
197
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
Anslo wrote:I hope that happens. I want my bar monopoly in Gallente Space! christ how many times does it need to be repeated that a bunch of dressed up dudes emoting each other in ramrod pretend-bar is not gameplay just downright unseemly. |
Anslo
BHEI Galactic Construction The Unforgiven Alliance
362
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 16:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ghazu wrote:Anslo wrote:I hope that happens. I want my bar monopoly in Gallente Space! christ how many times does it need to be repeated that a bunch of dressed up dudes emoting each other in ramrod pretend-bar is not gameplay just downright unseemly.
If it makes me passive isk, why do I care? Also post with your main. |
Kult Altol
Republican Industries Epsilon Fleet
93
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 19:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Well, its good to see drake prices will be plummeting. A narrow mind is a focused mind. |
Ghazu
197
|
Posted - 2012.09.20 05:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Ghazu wrote:Anslo wrote:I hope that happens. I want my bar monopoly in Gallente Space! christ how many times does it need to be repeated that a bunch of dressed up dudes emoting each other in ramrod pretend-bar is not gameplay just downright unseemly. If it makes me passive isk, why do I care? Also post with your main. I know stupidity happens in eve but how does one make passive isk from emoting? Please inform me. |
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