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Jesspa
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Posted - 2011.07.16 13:30:00 -
[1]
I'm just dabbling in PI and playing the market on a bigger scale than I've done before, meaning that for the first time I'm really watching prices and trying to calculate profit margins very precisely.
My questions, I'm sure, are very simple but I'm just looking for some advice.
- In Jita the minimum sell price for items on the market is a good 20% less than what EVE-Central consistently says is the average sell price. Is this simply because people will pay much higher prices for much larger quantities, pushing the average up?
- I understand that prices vary according to supply and demand, amongst other things. But since I started doing this less than a week ago the price of the item I'm manufacturing has dropped consistently and is now significantly less than when I started out. Since I'm looking to sell P2 items, what would cause these price drops? In real life I'd be able to see what factors were pushing prices down, but in EVE I can't.
- Is there a way that I can see the average/min/max sell prices for my product on a per-system basis, preferably with sales volumes as well? I've tried to do this myself in a spreadsheet using EVE-Central's API but it really isn't that easy. I want to know if there's somewhere else where prices are higher that I could be selling.
- I've been setting up my sell orders for 3 months at a time in the hope that this will allow them to overcome short-term fluctuations in the market and still be around when prices recover. Is there any argument for or against long-term sell orders?
Thanks for your time, hoping for some expert advice!
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Caliph Muhammed
Caldari Caldari Naval Criminal Investigative Service
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Posted - 2011.07.16 13:50:00 -
[2]
The buy order/now price is not the value of an item. You can get a good guideline of what an item is worth looking at it but it will in almost all cases be lower than what someone will give you if you put the item for sale.
Learning the difference is basic trading.
It sounds as if you know the basics but you're suffering from self-doubt. Don't do that. Bad for business.
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Jesspa
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Posted - 2011.07.17 21:57:00 -
[3]
I've been using the sell prices, not the buy prices, to try and get a true value for what I can expect to make, but even that price is dropping, and the average sell price is a lot higher than the lowest sell price, which I don't quite understand.
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Kara Books
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Posted - 2011.07.17 22:06:00 -
[4]
If you look at the trade history for that item, you will notice some one has, for a few days artificially raised the average price of the item.
Be very careful.
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Jesspa
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Posted - 2011.07.18 13:41:00 -
[5]
That's interesting, how can you tell? I still hate that I'm at the mercy of the markets if I'm going to sell my goods for a competitive price. Surely the sellers dictate the price, so who decides when enough price undercutting is enough? What will cause prices to rise again? If all sellers of a particular item just stuck with a sell price around a certain level they'd all benefit!
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Kaethe Kollwitz
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Posted - 2011.07.18 14:22:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kaethe Kollwitz on 18/07/2011 14:23:26
Originally by: Jesspa I've been setting up my sell orders for 3 months at a time in the hope that this will allow them to overcome short-term fluctuations in the market and still be around when prices recover. Is there any argument for or against long-term sell orders?[/list=1] Thanks for your time, hoping for some expert advice!
The length of the order matters a lot less than how often you are prepared to update the order.
consider: In Jita have a look at the "time remaining" column for all the orders of the product you are trying to sell. If you have a large number of people updating their orders every 5 minutes you have competition of some sort. Are you prepared to update your order every 5 minutes also?
In a location like Jita leaving a 3 month order up just puts a ceiling on the price - everyone else will undercut you and you will only sell if there is an event within eve that changes the value of your goods enough that traders buy them up to resell, or if someone manipulates the market.
if you really want to run 3 month orders without having to update them don't trade in jita would be my advice.
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Jesspa
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Posted - 2011.07.18 15:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Kaethe Kollwitz If you really want to run 3 month orders without having to update them don't trade in jita would be my advice.
Thanks very much for the advice. I don't mind updating my orders pretty regularly, I hadn't considered those consequences of not doing so. I've recalculated everything based on my selling at about the bottom of the market now. I guess I hoped that by being just about the cheapest my goods would sell quickly, before the 3-month limit became an issue, but now I see your point about people adjusting orders all the time. The only problem with that is that you get charged another Broker's Fee every time!
Also, this links to one of my original questions. If everyone is continually undercutting each other to be the cheapest, even going so far as to adjust sell orders, when does it stop? Will the price just continue to drop and drop?
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Zeta Zhul
Caldari Preemptive Paranoia
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Posted - 2011.07.18 16:09:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Zeta Zhul on 18/07/2011 16:16:32 The thing to keep in mind is that prices cycle. You can either chase after the lowest sell price in order to maintain volume or you can aim for a higher price point and just wait until the cycle hits your sell order. But the markets are never really all that static and if you spend some time watching the markets you'll see the cycle in action.
Take Drakes for instance. I've bought Drakes @ 27mil/pu and sold them for 33mil/pu. I've also sold them for 29mil/pu, 30mil/pu and as high as 47mil/pu. All in the same station and within 2 weeks of each other. Tell me that isn't pretty strange.
As an aside: Link
While I enjoyed raking this guy over the coals a bit the reality is that I wrote in some pretty good information that any new trader should know. Whether he figured that out or not I have no idea. But if you take the time and effort not to ask questions but to read through the various postings by the MD veterans and ******ed idiots like myself you will glean a lot of extremely useful information.
Here in MD people tend to respect those that make themselves, who are independent and who have proven themselves. How do you prove yourself? Wallet. If you can make a lot of isk then you know what you're doing and by extension you're worthy of respect. So there isn't a lot of inclination by MD veterans to simply hand over valuable advice to potential competitors who haven't done the hard work yet; so to speak.
But here in MD people will offer gems of advice, information and data; but you have to recognize it for what it is and you have to chase after it. It isn't all in one place, collated, notated and easy to read. Instead it is scattered all over the place in various posts, comments and rants. But it is very very valuable because it opens your eyes to possibilities.
And that is probably the best advice I can give.
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