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Kaname Hagiri
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Posted - 2011.07.20 08:40:00 -
[1]
Some genius invented a revolutionary new way of 'WASD' character movement control of Incarna. Now you will need TWO hands to finish the job which once needed ONE. Plus you won't be able to walk your character backward or look around while walking stright, and you don't know where you are going when you press A or S or D in the 4 keys. God that must be the best innovation I have ever seen.
So who can tell me exactly what is the merit of the new way or what's wrong with the common one? Is it something about hardcore and cool?
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Culmen
Caldari Vigrior The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2011.07.20 08:42:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Culmen on 20/07/2011 08:44:01 Because one is a humanoid on the ground. EVE is a submarine in space.
I have yet to see an aircraft or ocean going vessel that didn't operate on a throttle system
From a programming prespective. LAG.
The server only has to process changes in vector rather then handle potentially hundreds of key presses per player. and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Kaname Hagiri
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Posted - 2011.07.20 08:48:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Culmen Edited by: Culmen on 20/07/2011 08:44:01 Because one is a humanoid on the ground. EVE is a submarine in space.
I have yet to see an aircraft or ocean going vessel that didn't operate on a throttle system
From a programming prespective. LAG.
The server only has to process changes in vector rather then handle potentially hundreds of key presses per player.
I guess you never docked since June so you cannot understand what I am talking about.
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Culmen
Caldari Vigrior The Dominion Empire
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:12:00 -
[4]
To be fair, I live in a wormhole.
Also didn't really read your post, but the answer is still roughly the same. WASD requires the animation engine to account for thousands of possible permutations. Double click simplifies this to a handful which theoretically could be done well.
Also, when was the last time I you did a crab walk side ways in real life.
and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kaname Hagiri I guess you never docked since June so you cannot understand what I am talking about.
i'm docked many times every day but i don't understand what are you talking about too.
I walked some. To the room, to the balkony. Haven't noticed anything strange. Movement is similar to any non-FPS games.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/07/2011 09:33:12
He's talking about the combination between camera controls and avatar movement direction, and the "convention" in place now in most games that WASD should be relative to the camera, not the avatar's facing. And the fact that camera and avatar facing is not default-linked. Also, about the impossibility of walking backwards without doing a 180. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts
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Evenus Battuta
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Posted - 2011.07.20 09:44:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Evenus Battuta on 20/07/2011 09:48:09
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 20/07/2011 09:33:12
He's talking about the combination between camera controls and avatar movement direction, and the "convention" in place now in most games that WASD should be relative to the camera, not the avatar's facing. And the fact that camera and avatar facing is not default-linked. Also, about the impossibility of walking backwards without doing a 180.
Yes, usually key A and D makes your avatar spin left and right so you can turn your avatar to any direction and walk with only one hand, as well as free to look at any direction without affecting your movement---now they are just impossible. What's more, you cannot see where you are going when you press A or S or D now so they have become somehow meaningless.
Also, moving by double clicking in station won't work well in such narrow space at close horizontal viewing angle.
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Sturmwolke
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Posted - 2011.07.20 10:16:00 -
[8]
Nothing new. CCP's got a penchant for re-inventing the wheel. They'll come up with a octagonal wheel .... that works somewhat.
Form thereon, in Iceland, all wheels shall be octagonal! It works best on basalt rocks and ash.
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Stitcher
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.20 10:42:00 -
[9]
hold down both your mouse buttons. you now walk in the direction you're looking.
Seemples *squeak* -
- Verin "Stitcher" Hakatain.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.20 10:43:00 -
[10]
Bah, I' have already gotten used to move around the CQ by holding down both mouse buttons.
And, backwards? Who ever walks backwards?
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
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Meryl SinGarda
Caldari Belligerent Underpayed Tactical Team
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran Bah, I' have already gotten used to move around the CQ by holding down both mouse buttons.
And, backwards? Who ever walks backwards?
Yeah, I was just going to say that. Unless you're moonwalking in your station, what's the point? Who cares? Fly safe, Die hard |
Harcosi
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Culmen Also, when was the last time I you did a crab walk side ways in real life.
On the weekend.
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Discrodia
Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:05:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Discrodia on 20/07/2011 11:05:47 Derp.
Because CCP is too cool to use normal controls.
Quote: The most effective post is the first post, do not waste it.
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Kunming
Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:10:00 -
[14]
It feels like one of those 80's platform games, u know the ones listed as one of the "The top10 unplayable games" in youtube!!
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Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:11:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Barbelo Valentinian on 20/07/2011 11:13:01 It's the lack of "normal" mouselook that's a bit counter-intuitive to me.
i.e., the "mouselook" in EVE is sort of half-right - you can right click on a direction and then move that way, but you cannot hold down the right mouse and be moving in whatever direction you are pointed AND move sideways at the same time.
("Crab" or sideways is just cosmetics, as is turning round to go back - the way they have it is quite suitable for a walking pace.)
Anyway, the WASD/mouselook is so clunky and pointless that I've ended up not bothering with WASD at all, and just double clicking on the floor.
But if CCP expect all these shiny new customers eager to spend AUR, they better get this sorted; I'd imagine it would an instant annoyance for any normal, not-particularly-committed-to-EVE-but-just-trying-it-out player logging in for the first time. *****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Tiven loves Tansien
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Harcosi
Originally by: Culmen Also, when was the last time I you did a crab walk side ways in real life.
On the weekend.
Culmen obviously doesn't get out much
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Neok Skywalker
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Posted - 2011.07.20 11:26:00 -
[17]
They dont have a good GUI designer, they just have some programmers which do some code barely working.
And who cares for what direction I am walking, I want a sexy walk and some nice sets of poses.
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Steveir
Gallente Hagukure
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Posted - 2011.07.20 16:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Steveir on 20/07/2011 16:40:55 At the moment it's ok, but it going to get really annoying once we start wandering around stations. The movement needs to be WASD, that's pretty common, but camera panning needs to be on the cursor arrow. Obviously this needs to be bindable to other key (gamepads) etc. Oh and there will need to be a groin attachment, so players can interact with the exotic dancers :) Escaped Gobbo from Warhammer |
Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers B O R G
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Posted - 2011.07.20 16:47:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kaname Hagiri Edited by: Kaname Hagiri on 20/07/2011 09:24:05 Some genius in CCP invented a revolutionary new way of 'WASD' avatar movement control for Incarna. So you will need TWO hands to control your avatar movement(otherwise you will only have 8 directions available) which usually needs ONE in other games.
What games would those be? Imo the incarna method of movement is the standard one, even if it feels bit clunky.
Quote: Plus you won't be able to ... or look around while walking stright
You can.
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Azahni Vah'nos
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.20 17:10:00 -
[20]
Yes the controls are clunky, they lack the smoothness that you see in most other games. All I can say is I'm glad there wont be any shooting possible in stations because with the controls as they are now it would be a nightmare.
And yes if they bring that same system out for WoD, there will be rioting in the streets ... ok, maybe just rioting on the forums.
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Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.20 18:22:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: Kaname Hagiri Edited by: Kaname Hagiri on 20/07/2011 09:24:05 Some genius in CCP invented a revolutionary new way of 'WASD' avatar movement control for Incarna. So you will need TWO hands to control your avatar movement(otherwise you will only have 8 directions available) which usually needs ONE in other games.
What games would those be? Imo the incarna method of movement is the standard one, even if it feels bit clunky.
No it is not standard, in any other WASD game with mouselook you move where you look with your mouse, either by holding down the right click and mouselooking (acceptable and standard for most MMOs) or just by default while swinging the mouse around without holding down the right mouse button (standard for fps-es). Either of those would have been acceptable and familiar to most players. What they have is some weird bastard child of the MMO version, where direction "refreshes" on each right-mouseclick, rather than being constantly guided by it.
Furthermore, with either of the above standard methods, you can sidestep AS YOU ARE MOUSELOOKING, enabling smooth, intuitive movement around obstacles. With the system as it is you're constantly bumping into things like a dork.
Best just to doubleclick on the ground to move (which is admittedly another standard type of movement with MMOs, but has nothing to do with WASD, which might as well not be there).
It's going to be instantly off-putting to anybody used to MMOs or FPS-es.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.07.20 18:59:00 -
[22]
It's been pointed out repeatedly that the current control scheme feels awkward and isn't terribly intuitive. During beta testing quite a few folk asked that CCP either default the camera to lock behind the character during movement, or make the controls character-orelative rather than camera-relative, so that it would be possible to look around while moving. I do like being able to hold down both mouse buttons to movethe character; that movement scheme does work fairly well, although it still doesn't give sufficientlly fine control to move between closely-spaced bstacles.
To be perfectly honest, there are so many problems with the current incarnation of Incarna that a part of me wishes CCP would simply roll back to Incursions and spend a few months on improving performance and fixing bugs and bad design choices. Then again, this is CCP, and apparently even something as simple as changing a few numbers takes months of worl, which sadly means the Minmatar CQ will have horrific lighting for the foreseeable future.
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.20 19:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: Kaname Hagiri Edited by: Kaname Hagiri on 20/07/2011 09:24:05 Some genius in CCP invented a revolutionary new way of 'WASD' avatar movement control for Incarna. So you will need TWO hands to control your avatar movement(otherwise you will only have 8 directions available) which usually needs ONE in other games.
What games would those be? Imo the incarna method of movement is the standard one, even if it feels bit clunky.
No it is not standard, in any other WASD game with mouselook you move where you look with your mouse, either by holding down the right click and mouselooking (acceptable and standard for most MMOs) or just by default while swinging the mouse around without holding down the right mouse button (standard for fps-es). Either of those would have been acceptable and familiar to most players. What they have is some weird bastard child of the MMO version, where direction "refreshes" on each right-mouseclick, rather than being constantly guided by it.
Furthermore, with either of the above standard methods, you can sidestep AS YOU ARE MOUSELOOKING, enabling smooth, intuitive movement around obstacles. With the system as it is you're constantly bumping into things like a dork.
Best just to doubleclick on the ground to move (which is admittedly another standard type of movement with MMOs, but has nothing to do with WASD, which might as well not be there).
It's going to be instantly off-putting to anybody used to MMOs or FPS-es.
Have you tried holding the LEFT-Mouse button? If I remember correctly it acts much better than holding the Right button.
Left Mouse button: Move camera and controls orient towards camera.
Right Mouse button: Move camera, controls keep original orientation when mouse button was pressed. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.07.20 19:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nerodon
Have you tried holding the LEFT-Mouse button? If I remember correctly it acts much better than holding the Right button.
Left Mouse button: Move camera and controls orient towards camera.
Right Mouse button: Move camera, controls keep original orientation when mouse button was pressed.
Good to know, I'll try that - but the point stands that this is non-standard. Why interpose a pointless non-standard thing for new players? *****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2011.07.20 19:16:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Ghoest on 20/07/2011 19:16:40 "Metrosexual Vampire Fashion Parade Online" is going to be a b---- to actually play with these controls.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ed Sullivan
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Posted - 2011.07.20 19:19:00 -
[26]
You have the avatar in the station thing turned on? Why?
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations
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Posted - 2011.07.20 19:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mendolus on 20/07/2011 19:26:02
Most WASD is a puppet mechanic, so you can imagine yourself pushing the W key, and a string pulls your puppet in that direction which gives it a somewhat detached feel when you can hold down multiple keys at once and perform all manner of strange stunt, esp. with the camera control on the mouse as well, i.e. your camera is motionless as your character spins wildly.
Incarna WASD is more like a push system, where you are pushing your avatar in the direction you want them to go, i.e. it is more like real life. When you stand up to walk into the next room you don't instantly about face and leap at the same time, or strafe sideways as you move forwards, you point yourself in one direction, and you walk in that direction.
I know some kid is gonna come back and say he strafes all the time in real life, but the reality of the situation is, bipedal motion in general relies on one foot in front of the other, everything else is athletics and does not represent the naturally occurring motor movements that happen when one attempts to move from point A to B on a flat plane.
CCP wanted to make something that felt more like a real human, they achieved it, humans are clumsy and bipedal movement is the art of falling down with each step, not hopping around in circles and spinning at the same time for ten minutes straight like you can do in most fantasy MMOs.
EVE avatars are modeled off actual movement, so it feels clunky from the puppet on a string system that most people are accustomed to.
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Nerodon
Gallente Incapsulated Reality
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Posted - 2011.07.20 20:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
Originally by: Nerodon
Have you tried holding the LEFT-Mouse button? If I remember correctly it acts much better than holding the Right button.
Left Mouse button: Move camera and controls orient towards camera.
Right Mouse button: Move camera, controls keep original orientation when mouse button was pressed.
Good to know, I'll try that - but the point stands that this is non-standard. Why interpose a pointless non-standard thing for new players?
I agree that they should have used a standard control scheme. There are many that have been used by players since the dawn of time,
Doing differently is like making custom menus on the top of program windows (Different than the normal File Edit About etc.) it's not cool and original, it's just annoying. Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist |
Kaname Hagiri
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Posted - 2011.07.21 00:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 20/07/2011 19:26:02 Incarna WASD is more like a push system, where you are pushing your avatar in the direction you want them to go, i.e. it is more like real life.
Your push system will be a better choice only if 1.The game is using long-range vertical viewing angle 2.Your avatar is in middle of the screen and no more than 500 pixels big so you can see where you are going
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Jashmyne
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.07.21 00:44:00 -
[30]
I kinda hope they don't change the control scheme now. It was clunky yeah but now I'm used to it. I just hold down my left-mouse button and just hold down the W button and just steer that way. Works pretty well.
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Solosky
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Posted - 2011.07.21 01:03:00 -
[31]
"Standard moonwalk" option could be nice to have but it will distract developers from creating very important and more expensive NeX stuff - so most likely we won't see it until "shooting in stations" will be implemented 5-7 years later.
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Mendolus
Aurelius Federation Eternal Evocations
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Posted - 2011.07.21 01:04:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Mendolus on 21/07/2011 01:04:41
Originally by: Kaname Hagiri
Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 20/07/2011 19:26:02 Incarna WASD is more like a push system, where you are pushing your avatar in the direction you want them to go, i.e. it is more like real life.
Your push system will be a better choice only if 1.The game is using long-range vertical viewing angle 2.Your avatar is in middle of the screen and no more than 500 pixels big so you can see where you are going
I do agree there, the odd camera positions are rather ill-advised and avatar scale limitations are strange, although I do see where they were or are trying to go with it, it feels like you're a giant in a collapsing hallway a la Willy Wonka And The Chocolate Factory.
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NocomplyUK
Caldari Ultimate Forces
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Posted - 2011.07.22 08:12:00 -
[33]
If you think about it, our toons have spent the last months/years living in an egg, and suddenly they're now rudely jetisoned from the nice cosy pod everytime they dock and thrust into a dark room with no exits and park benches for furniture. On top of that they're trying to figure out why some numbnuts is trying to sell them ridiculously expensive clothes and accessories when all they really want to do is strip down to their pants and jump back into the egg.
So the clunky control system actually simulates people trying to figure out how to walk about after years of innactivity and not godawful programming at all.
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Smagd
Encina Technologies Namtz' aar K'in
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Posted - 2011.07.22 09:01:00 -
[34]
CCP has this long history of reinventing the GUI.
They're also trying to push the space bar for switching to chat mode instead of return. I'm sure in a few years all other games will have seen the light followed suit.
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