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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
166
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all! As mentioned in this thorough post by CCP Fozzie, we're going to have Duality up and running for a few days to test some of the stuff we're doing in the winter expansion.
One of those things are making adjustments to the Ancillary Shield Boosters. There is a version now on Duality with different stats, we would love for you guys to test them out with us to give us a better indication of whether these adjustments are the right one or not.
The adjustments are:
- Reducing capacity in all four ASBs so they can now fit 7 normal ones (9 navy ones)
- Upping the duration of X-Large ASB from 4 to 5 seconds
- Adjusting the capacitor need of all four ASBs considerably
Again, we're still in the process of figuring out the best way to adjust the ASBs, so don't take the current stats as the final word on what will happen in the winter expansion. Hopefully this is just the first test of many with you guys.
Finally, there are a few other module adjustments we're contemplating, but are not testing right now, so more module testing is likely in the future.
Thanks in advance, CCP SoniClover on behalf of Team Super Friends |
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James1122
Aperture Harmonics K162
33
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
keep them as they are and just limit it so you can only fit 1 per ship Two Step for CSM |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Does this mean we will get navy cap booster 50s? 50s are what people use in medium ASBs. Maybe even navy cap booster 25s for small ASBs, even though they arent used much.
As well, i dont think increasing cap need of ASBs is necessary, they already are crippling in 1-2 rounds without charges
and no, limiting 1 per ship is a crappy idea. ASBs are a good concept and it helps active tanking as it should, it just needs to not be able to perma tank through reloads with 2 boosters. (While one is reloading, you should only have enough charges in the second booster to last 1/2 or 2/3 of the reload from the first, when receiving the full DPS that your ship can tank with a single ASB)
Out of interest however, i think they should not limit resistance shifting hardeners to a single one. Maybe 2 or 3 will make them more useful in more circumstances. |
Hoarr
RPS holdings
46
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Interesting balance pass. I think most people were expecting a 1 module limit. Should be interesting to try them out. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
169
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
James1122 wrote:keep them as they are and just limit it so you can only fit 1 per ship
That option is still very much on the table, but we want to explore a few other alternative as well. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
169
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Does this mean we will get navy cap booster 50s? 50s are what people use in medium ASBs. Maybe even navy cap booster 25s for small ASBs, even though they arent used much.
Most like not at this time. |
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Matthew97
Pro Synergy ARK.
43
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Your link doesn't exist btw. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Does this mean we will get navy cap booster 50s? 50s are what people use in medium ASBs. Maybe even navy cap booster 25s for small ASBs, even though they arent used much. Most like not at this time.
So does that mean medium ASBs won't be able to fit 9 charges, only 7? Sorry if the cap booster sizes are messing me around here. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
169
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:Does this mean we will get navy cap booster 50s? 50s are what people use in medium ASBs. Maybe even navy cap booster 25s for small ASBs, even though they arent used much. Most like not at this time. So does that mean medium ASBs won't be able to fit 9 charges, only 7? Sorry if the cap booster sizes are messing me around here.
Yes, until we do the navy 50 version. Which I think we're going to do at some point, I just don't think it will make it into the winter expansion. But I've been wrong before |
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Yes, until we do the navy 50 version. Which I think we're going to do at some point, I just don't think it will make it into the winter expansion. But I've been wrong before
Ahhhhh my hawk becomes possible to kill for a couple of months!
:P |
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Aliventi
Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous
6
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:36:00 -
[11] - Quote
You only need to change 1 thing about them: 1 size booster per ASB. Right now the XLASB gets the same boost no matter if it uses an 800 or a 400. So everyone uses the 400 to get more cycles off. Which means it takes longer to run out of charges and they can fit more charges in their hold. That's the only thing unbalanced about them.
I don't mind ships being able to fit more than 1 ASB. usually you have to gimp the fit somewhat to get the first on and majorly gimp to get the second one on. And no only does that usually involve more Co-pros in the low but faction equipment in other slots. And that adds up to nice kills. |
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CCP SoniClover
C C P C C P Alliance
169
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Warde Guildencrantz wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Yes, until we do the navy 50 version. Which I think we're going to do at some point, I just don't think it will make it into the winter expansion. But I've been wrong before Ahhhhh my hawk becomes possible to kill for a couple of months! :P
You should try the quadruple-ASB Kitsune fit |
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:You only need to change 1 thing about them: 1 size booster per ASB. Right now the XLASB gets the same boost no matter if it uses an 800 or a 400. So everyone uses the 400 to get more cycles off. Which means it takes longer to run out of charges and they can fit more charges in their hold. That's the only thing unbalanced about them.
The point behind it is to get people to use the smaller charges. You aren't supposed to use the larger ones, those are for cap boosters, not ASBs. They want cap booster 200s, 150s, 100s, 50s, and 25s to actually sell on the market, thats why they made the boost the same as long as you had the right size of cap booster in there. I thought it was a good way of getting those charges to be useful in PvP. The only cap charges people used for PvP prior to the expansion was navy 400s in small cap boosters, navy 800s in medium cap boosters, and 800s/navy 800s in large cap boosters. Now people use 25s in small ASBs occasionally, 50s in medium asbs, 150s/200s in large asbs, and standard 400s in XL ASBs. |
Aliventi
Southern Cross Trilogy Flying Dangerous
6
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Except it should have to use the largest sized booster to get the largest shield boost. These were designed to combine the shield booster and the cap booster in to 1 module that for balancing it would be to give it a 60 second reload time and high fitting requriements. Since, as you pointed out, most cap boosters use the largest booster because it gives the most benefit then the ASB should get the most benefit out of the largest booster and a reduced benefit from a smaller one.
And if it matters so much as to getting smaller boosters to sell then make the smaller booster the max size and reduce the amount boosted. My main point is you are getting too much shield boost for a smaller sized cap booster. |
Slighet
Perkone Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.09.19 17:59:00 -
[15] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:James1122 wrote:keep them as they are and just limit it so you can only fit 1 per ship That option is still very much on the table, but we want to explore a few other alternative as well.
This would be the best fix IMHO. |
Rayge PVV
Wormbro Ocularis Inferno
5
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Except it should have to use the largest sized booster to get the largest shield boost. These were designed to combine the shield booster and the cap booster in to 1 module that for balancing it would be to give it a 60 second reload time and high fitting requriements. Since, as you pointed out, most cap boosters use the largest booster because it gives the most benefit then the ASB should get the most benefit out of the largest booster and a reduced benefit from a smaller one.
And if it matters so much as to getting smaller boosters to sell then make the smaller booster the max size and reduce the amount boosted. My main point is you are getting too much shield boost for a smaller sized cap booster.
I like what you're saying here. It would be nice if you could choose between longer duration/less tank, shorter duration/ more tank based on the size of the cap mod. GÇÄ"Don't give yourselves to the unnatural men, machine men, with machine minds and machine hearts. You are not machines, you are not cattle, you are men!" -Charlie Chaplin |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
397
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quick to Nerf, and slow to boost. One would think only 2 modules were released last expansion... Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Natalia de Sade
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:25:00 -
[18] - Quote
Why not implement stacking penalty on multiple ASBs instead of imposing a hard limit of one per ship? |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
57
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Posted - 2012.09.19 18:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Natalia de Sade wrote: Why not implement stacking penalty on multiple ASBs instead of imposing a hard limit of one per ship?
See I'm not the only one that thinks a stacking penalty is better.
Hopefully just to the capacity of the booster, really their boost amount should be left alone. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
211
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
You can adjust stuff all you want and the limitation of how many cap boosters in the ASB is a fine adjustment...
But if you don't want to hard limit it like damage control and that armor resist abomination you will risc to ruin the ASB instead of making it a balanced alternative.
Also 1 KEY feature I know you HAVE to adjust is the double overheat bonus. Currently you don't only get a bonus to cycle time which makes you tank more but also making you run out of cap boosters faster - But at the same time you get an 10% extra hitpoint pr cycle... You MUST remove this as long people use oversized ASB. I've seen people with oversized and double ASB master this to an advantage where the heat almost doesn't build up at all...
Pinky |
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
864
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
You need to limit the ASB's to 1 booster per ship hard limit. Keep them as is and just do that.
The reason for this is simple, if you run a NORMAL booster and an ASB you can get some good tanking. If you run a BUFFER fit and an ASB you can get some good results. As the ATX showed, you can get some great results in a fleet with a Logistics ship supported by ASB fits.
Running 2 simultaneously is where the problem becomes a huge issue.
To comment on the current adjustments, I think that reducing the # of cap boosters is handicapping the module and not balancing it with the ACTUAL problems that they're facing. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Helen O'Malley
5th Battallion of Apocalypse
2
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:You need to limit the ASB's to 1 booster per ship hard limit. Keep them as is and just do that.
The reason for this is simple, if you run a NORMAL booster and an ASB you can get some good tanking. If you run a BUFFER fit and an ASB you can get some good results. As the ATX showed, you can get some great results in a fleet with a Logistics ship supported by ASB fits.
Running 2 simultaneously is where the problem becomes a huge issue.
To comment on the current adjustments, I think that reducing the # of cap boosters is handicapping the module and not balancing it with the ACTUAL problems that they're facing.
i quote everything....
+1 for the "one booster per ship" limit...
helen. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
864
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Here's the problem with your "Fix".
It's that you're nerfing it for LEGITIMATE uses such as for ancillary (backup system, by definition) boosting for Logistics Reps, for a main Shield booster, for a buffer tank being used alone.
And in the process you've have made it even WORSE at being an ancillary system, and now the only way to use it is in DUAL SHIELD BOOSTING, and now even TRIPLE shield boosting setups. You're only enhancing the reason to put MORE dual shield boosters on, and not actually addressing the issue of why they are overpowered, and only exacerbating the problem.
I'm all for testing this out. But I think you're just nerfing the module and not the problem. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Fellblade
Octavian Vanguard
8
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
A limit of one per ship would seem to be sensible. Given the massive downsides (huge fitting reqs, massive reload time), and the natural limitations of active tanking the ASBs need to have a significant payoff if they are to remain being used.
It might help if CCP explained what the perceived issues are with the ASBs, and how they think their changes are addressing them. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
864
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Posted - 2012.09.19 19:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
The only other idea I had for ASB's was that for larger cap boosters than needed (i.e. 100's instead of 50's for an MASB), you can get a cap boost while getting a shield boost simultaneously.
This would be a much smaller cap boost than a cap booster of course, but that's the only thing that has occured to me that would be cool, WITH a limit to 1 ASB per ship. But that's just a side thought. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
2245
|
Posted - 2012.09.19 20:16:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hi all! As mentioned in this thorough post by CCP Fozzie, we're going to have Duality up and running for a few days to test some of the stuff we're doing in the winter expansion. One of those things are making adjustments to the Ancillary Shield Boosters. There is a version now on Duality with different stats, we would love for you guys to test them out with us to give us a better indication of whether these adjustments are the right one or not. The adjustments are:
- Reducing capacity in all four ASBs so they can now fit 7 normal ones (9 navy ones)
- Upping the duration of X-Large ASB from 4 to 5 seconds
- Adjusting the capacitor need of all four ASBs considerably
Again, we're still in the process of figuring out the best way to adjust the ASBs, so don't take the current stats as the final word on what will happen in the winter expansion. Hopefully this is just the first test of many with you guys. Finally, there are a few other module adjustments we're contemplating, but are not testing right now, so more module testing is likely in the future. Thanks in advance, CCP SoniClover on behalf of Team Super Friends
This seems like it doesn't address any of the really critical failings of the ASB. But, I'll test it out.
/shrug
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
61
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:15:00 -
[27] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:
Also 1 KEY feature I know you HAVE to adjust is the double overheat bonus. Currently you don't only get a bonus to cycle time which makes you tank more but also making you run out of cap boosters faster - But at the same time you get an 10% extra hitpoint pr cycle... You MUST remove this as long people use oversized ASB. I've seen people with oversized and double ASB master this to an advantage where the heat almost doesn't build up at all...
Thats the case for all boosters, ASB or not. Making them cycle faster would nerf them by overheating, which is stupid, they are supposed to get better for a burst period while overheating, not worse. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
61
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:18:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:You need to limit the ASB's to 1 booster per ship hard limit. Keep them as is and just do that.
The reason for this is simple, if you run a NORMAL booster and an ASB you can get some good tanking. If you run a BUFFER fit and an ASB you can get some good results. As the ATX showed, you can get some great results in a fleet with a Logistics ship supported by ASB fits.
Running 2 simultaneously is where the problem becomes a huge issue.
This is why a stacking penalty to fitting multiple ASBs would be the best solution.
edit: crap doublepost |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
164
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Posted - 2012.09.19 21:33:00 -
[29] - Quote
James1122 wrote:keep them as they are and just limit it so you can only fit 1 per ship
THIS ALL DAY Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Gorski Car
0utbreak Outbreak.
7
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Posted - 2012.09.19 22:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Warde Guildencrantz wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Yes, until we do the navy 50 version. Which I think we're going to do at some point, I just don't think it will make it into the winter expansion. But I've been wrong before Ahhhhh my hawk becomes possible to kill for a couple of months! :P You should try the quadruple-ASB Kitsune fit
Someone has broken into my EFT lab! |
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