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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 12:46:00 -
[1]
Ok, not questioning the worth of the Tengu! I know that it is an awesome ship worth the time and money..
My question is more, if I do not plan to PVP in this ship (my PVP skillsand experience are too weak to risk it - read don't fly it if you can't afford it), is it really worth the $700+ million to mission in if I am not worried about blitzing missions?
I have BS' and other T2 ships for missioning up through L4 just fine. So, unless I absolutely need it to move into L5's, right now I am not seeing the investment worth.
Help me ifi am wrong.
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Noisrevbus
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Posted - 2011.07.23 14:08:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 23/07/2011 14:09:37 No, you don't need it.
People who praise the ship are usually L4-mission runners who grind so much missions that time-efficiency (ISK/h) become an important factor for them.
The Tengu get alot of attention because there are still so many people playing L4-missions (that have usually outgrown them, yet enjoy their comfort), even though those missions are not the only good- or even not one of the better means to gain income.
Not to say it's a bad ship; it's a good ship, but alot of people equate PvE = L4, raising the expectations of the ship.
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Ruddy Rax
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Posted - 2011.07.23 14:53:00 -
[3]
lol so your telling him he doesnt need to get into one of the best ships to do PVE in because why?
tengu's are good ships around i've done just about every type of pve in the game in a tengu from 0.0 belt rating and complexs to level 4s and while its not the best ship out there to clear sites and level 4s (there are plenty of ships with higher dps) the tank and agilty it gives you means your rarely caught out in 0.0 when red's show.
the fact is the ship is worth it people spend millions in eve to get that mod or implant to make they do 1-2-3% more damage or rep that little bit more so yeah the ship is worth it.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 15:03:00 -
[4]
Ruddy Rax - you kinda make my point. I know it is good, but if I am not looking to improve my L4 mission time, what's the point financially? It takes a lot of L4 grinding to recoupe that much ISK.
Now if someone wants to tell me that it's a must have over my Rattler, SNI or CNR to solo L5's then that's a different story.
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Ultim8Evil
Ministry Of Eternal Disorder
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Posted - 2011.07.23 15:24:00 -
[5]
You do realise 700 mill ISK is cheap for a dedicated mission boat, right?
Also:
Originally by: Delucian Ok, not questioning the worth of the Tengu!
Originally by: Delucian ...is it really worth the $700+ million to mission in...
Bolded the paradox.
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Ruddy Rax
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Posted - 2011.07.23 15:29:00 -
[6]
why you got to recope it thats what I dont get you buy it to run missions with if you dont want to it any more you sell it for what you paid.
my pvp ships I always view as money down the drain mission ships are just investments. you buy them get there use and sell em on when your finished.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 15:47:00 -
[7]
Ok let me rephrase my question - being that I already mission in aRattler, SNI and CNR, does the Tengu represent a Significant improvement?
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Muad 'dib
Caldari The Imperial Fedaykin
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Posted - 2011.07.23 16:11:00 -
[8]
Tengus are not just pve isk machines, with a well thought out setup, one could do just about anything with a tengu.
I like to pvp in mine, how do you fly yours?
Meep Meep!
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Harris
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Posted - 2011.07.23 16:17:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Delucian Ok let me rephrase my question - being that I already mission in aRattler, SNI and CNR, does the Tengu represent a Significant improvement?
No.
If you're comfortable in the ships you already fly and aren't intrested in coasting through missions on auto-pilot (with regards to adjusting tank, etc) then stick with what you have.
If you'd like a bit more flexibility from your ship or a change in pace in the missions then fill yer boots - that's a different question. I have one [Tengu]. I like it but I currently prefer my Macharial for missions as I'm coming back in a seperate ship to loot/salvage anyway.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 16:44:00 -
[10]
Well, what little PVP I have done, I have done in small less expensive ships (so I can lose them and buy more without the heartburn). So, the Tengu would (at least for now) be only a mission ship for me.
I like the Rattler for L4 missions, becasue my style is either to tank the mission and just let the damage come, or to use something small and fast and speed tank them (normally kiting ships).
Hence, I am training into the Curse (based on lots of drone skills and heavy missile skills) to do this. Yes, I know that is not what it is built for - I will alternate my build between PVE and PVP with this ship. It gives me something I really wish the Tengu had, and I rely on right now, drones.
So, this is why I am trying to rationalize using the Curse and my other ships over the Tengu, as I can buy a lot of these for both PVE and PVP for the outlay of the Tengu.
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Ruddy Rax
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Posted - 2011.07.23 18:21:00 -
[11]
you really do baffle me now your asking is a tengu is worth 700 mil as an investment for an improvement but you must have spent that already on a CNR to fit it out properly. no a tengu wont be an improvement really over a properly fit CNR but it gives you a different play style to your missioning. and it will vastly outpreform a curse in missions. I really dont see what your trying to rationalise here a mission ship is an investment you but it you try it if you dont like it you sell it.
you haven't lost anything the way your talking is how i'd talk about my pvp ship. that money isnt lost once you've bought the ship so why cry or worry about replacing that money/
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 18:56:00 -
[12]
Not meaning to baffle you. Its a guage of other cost in the game. Running PVP, there is a cost due to ship loss, but it is fun. Thus, tend to be careful with big purchases so that I do not run short of funds.
I was just trying to get a feel for the relative gap between what I am using and the Tengu for mission running, for the relative cost. Sure, in the end, it is what I want to fly. The ships I have now work just fine, but should I want to move some or all of them into Level 5 missions or low sec, then I need to be clear on not just a "wow" factor in a ship but its relevance to the task at hand.
It sounds like it may not be worth the cost for missioning up through L4, as I am not having any issues there. However, no one has said whether it is capable of solo'ing L5's. Additionally, if I plan to solo roam in a boat, it will not be a Tengu, as the cost of replacement is just too high. Thus the Curse, a Drake or any number of other ships fits the bill and I have no heartburn replacing them.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 18:59:00 -
[13]
Will the Tengu solo a Level 5 mission?
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Barbie D0ll
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Posted - 2011.07.23 19:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Delucian Will the Tengu solo a Level 5 mission?
maybe and thats a big maybe, depending on the fit, you may or may not die from attempting to do a lvl 5 as lvl 5s are notorious for their energy neut towers and the fact it takes place in lowsec where you WILL be scanned down and killed
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Ineka
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Posted - 2011.07.23 19:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Delucian Ok, not questioning the worth of the Tengu! I know that it is an awesome ship worth the time and money..
My question is more, if I do not plan to PVP in this ship (my PVP skillsand experience are too weak to risk it - read don't fly it if you can't afford it), is it really worth the $700+ million to mission in if I am not worried about blitzing missions?
I have BS' and other T2 ships for missioning up through L4 just fine. So, unless I absolutely need it to move into L5's, right now I am not seeing the investment worth.
Help me ifi am wrong.
Your question is either clear either not focused, at the end confused between your pvp/pve experience.
You also mention lvl4's, you also mention your BS skills and blitzing.
Let's make it cleaner: The Tengu With pve fit for pve in some "safe" environment is an extraordinary asset, maybe the TOP asset in this particular purpose in the particular situation of high sec. He's not overpowered, he's just what you can expect from such an expensive/hard skilling ship and all other T3 ships should be so efficient, unfortunately every other T3 are much more specialised making them "not good" for this or for "that" witch is stupid, T3 ships are meant to be versatile and efficient no matter the role.
Now what you may be doubtful about it is what we can read here and there about fits, 100mn fit, 10mn fit faction T2 fit...you can get for each and every taste and for each and every purpose.
I'm that kind of guy that will always ask you what are your skills made of, how did you trained your toon and what are you used to do with before trying to give you any universal answer.
But, in general use, with general fit in general situation face to general target, the Tengu is an awesome ship.
Be very careful, with who you fly with what kind of fit you fly and the kind of gang or fleet you fly would be my first advice.
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.23 19:31:00 -
[16]
Quote: maybe and thats a big maybe, depending on the fit, you may or may not die from attempting to do a lvl 5 as lvl 5s are notorious for their energy neut towers and the fact it takes place in lowsec where you WILL be scanned down and killed
Thanks, this was primarily what I was looking for - a straight forward answer. Especially the part where "you WILL be scanned down and Killed". I think I would rather wait, use a good but less expensive T2 ship that I am willing to lose.
Quote: Your question is either clear either not focused, at the end confused between your pvp/pve experience.
You also mention lvl4's, you also mention your BS skills and blitzing.
As for this, reread my original post. I was very clear, no PVE, not wanting/needing to blitz missions. The idea here being, and maybe here is where I should have been clearer, I am moving to the Curse and back to my Drake for L4's (at least for some) for a different (read higher managemetn) experience. If the Tengu is just a much faster more efficient way to run missions, that is not what I am looking for. Thus my note on not wanting to sepnd the money if that was the really selling point.
Thanks for all the input.
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Ineka
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Posted - 2011.07.23 19:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Ineka on 23/07/2011 19:43:06
Originally by: Delucian
Quote: Your question is either clear either not focused, at the end confused between your pvp/pve experience.
You also mention lvl4's, you also mention your BS skills and blitzing.
As for this, reread my original post. I was very clear, no PVE, not wanting/needing to blitz missions. The idea here being, and maybe here is where I should have been clearer, I am moving to the Curse and back to my Drake for L4's (at least for some) for a different (read higher managemetn) experience. If the Tengu is just a much faster more efficient way to run missions, that is not what I am looking for. Thus my note on not wanting to sepnd the money if that was the really selling point.
Thanks for all the input.
In this particular case, I'd always say Tengu first Even with pve fit with some mid/experienced pilot you can get the crap out of any 2/3men gang and still clean your sanctum/heaven/lvl5.
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The R00k
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:50:00 -
[18]
had mine a week. it's paid for it's self 3 times over. make up your own mind. u can just sell it on if u dnt like
That is " The R00K with two 00 not oo. to you sir |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.07.23 22:57:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Delucian
Quote: maybe and thats a big maybe, depending on the fit, you may or may not die from attempting to do a lvl 5 as lvl 5s are notorious for their energy neut towers and the fact it takes place in lowsec where you WILL be scanned down and killed
Thanks, this was primarily what I was looking for - a straight forward answer. Especially the part where "you WILL be scanned down and Killed". I think I would rather wait, use a good but less expensive T2 ship that I am willing to lose.
Quote: Your question is either clear either not focused, at the end confused between your pvp/pve experience.
You also mention lvl4's, you also mention your BS skills and blitzing.
As for this, reread my original post. I was very clear, no PVE, not wanting/needing to blitz missions. The idea here being, and maybe here is where I should have been clearer, I am moving to the Curse and back to my Drake for L4's (at least for some) for a different (read higher managemetn) experience. If the Tengu is just a much faster more efficient way to run missions, that is not what I am looking for. Thus my note on not wanting to sepnd the money if that was the really selling point.
Thanks for all the input.
For doing missions in Curse, the Tengu has a clear advantage in that it is fairly easy to make it (virtually) unprobeable.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Hazel Starr
Krypteia Brotherhood
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:42:00 -
[20]
I swapped from using a Golem and Nighthawk for missioning L4's in low-sec to a pair of perma-tank unprobable Tengu's. The speed of mission completion went down a bit - but the peace of mind of not having to be on the scanner for enemy combat probes every 20s really made missions far easier.
If you only mission in empire you really don't know the half of it.
-- Haze
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laffbot
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Posted - 2011.07.23 23:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Hazel Starr I swapped from using a Golem and Nighthawk for missioning L4's in low-sec to a pair of perma-tank unprobable Tengu's. The speed of mission completion went down a bit - but the peace of mind of not having to be on the scanner for enemy combat probes every 20s really made missions far easier.
If you only mission in empire you really don't know the half of it.
-- Haze
you realise nothing is unprobable now right
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Delucian
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:25:00 -
[22]
Quote: I swapped from using a Golem and Nighthawk for missioning L4's in low-sec to a pair of perma-tank unprobable Tengu's. The speed of mission completion went down a bit - but the peace of mind of not having to be on the scanner for enemy combat probes every 20s really made missions far easier.
And, as noted, that "safety factor" no longer exist. Thus, the Tengu is now more fair game and I am sure sought after in many cases. I do not worry about this as much in the space that I mission in, but nothing is set. That could change.
I have run the numbers. The Tengu is a very versitile platform. I have fits in EFT for huge DPS and fits for huge tank. Its ability to be all those things is one of the key factors to its success in so many areas. I get that and what I am hearing loud and clear is that it IS worth the expense.
I was just being cautious with such a costly machine. Yea, the faction and navy ships are costly too, but few come close to the genral outlay that is the Tengu and what keeps ringing in my head is that ole Eve addage "dont fly what you cant afford to lose" and at close to a billion in investment that would be a costly loss for anyone!
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Noisrevbus
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:32:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 24/07/2011 00:36:10
Originally by: Ruddy Rax lol so your telling him he doesnt need to get into one of the best ships to do PVE in because why?
Because the OP asked wether he "needed one", and the answer is quite simply: no he doesn't "need" one - especially not for higher tier PvE such as WH, anoms, statics, L5 or incursions.
Captain lolbius.
Ed. most of those are best run in capitals btw., and between cost and performance the Tengu doesn't stand out beyond still being a reasonably good PvE platform due to HML.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.07.24 00:44:00 -
[24]
The Tengu is slightly better at L4s than a Nighthawk, for several times the price.
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.24 01:55:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Mavnas The Tengu is slightly better at L4s than a Nighthawk, for several times the price.
Any NH that runs missions only "slightly" slower than a tengu cost a hell of a lot more than half it's price.
Just saying, either your tengu fu is weak as **** or you have spent far more on your NH than you'd like to admit.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.07.24 08:40:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nimrod Nemesis
Originally by: Mavnas The Tengu is slightly better at L4s than a Nighthawk, for several times the price.
Any NH that runs missions only "slightly" slower than a tengu cost a hell of a lot more than half it's price.
Just saying, either your tengu fu is weak as **** or you have spent far more on your NH than you'd like to admit.
Not at all. NH requires two CN BCS, and maybe a faction mod or T2 rig for the tank. That's all. Having drones and a built in bonus to explosion velocity helps a lot in missions with lots of smaller targets. Not needing an expensive active tank too.
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.24 09:24:00 -
[27]
Post ze fit.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.07.24 09:39:00 -
[28]
This does 683 with all Vs
[Nighthawk, DPSTest] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Power Diagnostic System II
Invulnerability Field II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Purger II Medium Core Defence Field Purger II
Hobgoblin II x5
You can drop the purgers down to T1 and use a specific hardener.
A Tengu with all Vs and the same BCS and 6 launchers will do 18 more DPS. (Not counting any implants in either or heat.) It might tank a lot more, but that doesn't really do anything to help you win faster if you're not being forced to warp out. You also get a little benefit from faster time to gates or alignment while warping, but that's a pretty tiny fraction of the overall whole.
You give up having a buffer that means it takes more than one gank BS to beat you up and steal your expensive mods, and pay many times the price for the privilege.
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Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2011.07.24 10:11:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mavnas This does 683 with all Vs
No it won't. Unless you're shooting at a fat, slow battleship.
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Izida
Caldari EVE-EX Express Courier Service
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Posted - 2011.07.24 13:21:00 -
[30]
Also t2 rigs seem like a massive waste of cash.
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