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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:06:00 -
[1]
CCP Veritas from Team Gridlock has some cool tricks up his sleeve when it comes to understanding and fighting lag.
Check out his latest blog on Telemetry!
DE version RU version
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T1nyTradingMan
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: T1nyTradingMan on 27/07/2011 14:27:24 Edited by: T1nyTradingMan on 27/07/2011 14:25:49 first?
Woot!
Nice blog too btw. That is one powerful tool. Can't wait to see the benefits of it in game. Keep bringing the blogs to btw.. I check the blogs everyday and there have been a lot of no blog days lately
BTW You didn't link the comments thread in the blog post.. you might get a lot more replies that way?
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:30:00 -
[3]
What, no sneak-peak video of time-dilated lasers?
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Sessym
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:40:00 -
[4]
Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no? 0= - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 'So grab your guns.'
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of that! Right now, the implementation of fleets is a bit of a mess, but I'll make a note to myself to make exactly this happen when we get around to refactoring how fleets work.
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Estimated Prophet
Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe and Trading Company EVE Trade Consortium
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Posted - 2011.07.27 14:53:00 -
[6]
I've noticed a Telemetry button in the in-game monitor. Clicking it doesn't appear to do anything. Does it do anything? Or is it disabled for mere mortals like me?
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Estimated Prophet I've noticed a Telemetry button in the in-game monitor. Clicking it doesn't appear to do anything. Does it do anything? Or is it disabled for mere mortals like me?
I believe that's a convenience button for the guys working on the client - they're using this tool as well for performance analysis. I don't know if it does anything for mortals or not, but for us it connects the client to Telemetry. Quite handy.
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Kenpachi Viktor
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:00:00 -
[8]
The lowest ship warp speed is a known factor. Would it make sense to stop looking at warp speeds if a ship in fleet is found with the lowest warp speed?
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T1nyTradingMan
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:03:00 -
[9]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of that! Right now, the implementation of fleets is a bit of a mess, but I'll make a note to myself to make exactly this happen when we get around to refactoring how fleets work.
I didn't want to suggest anything knowing nothing about the actual system but this immediately jumped to my mind as well. It would make sense (not knowing the system) that on creating a fleet a fleet warp speed (the lowest) among other attributes (including a count of the number of ships with that value perhaps) was assigned to the fleet then if anyone joins the fleet compare them to that value, if anyone leaves the fleet with a warp speed equal to the fleet warp and the count mentioned earlier hits zero then the whole fleet gets pole'd again. If a ship leaves the fleet with a higher value nothing needs to change. Then entering warp would not require that activity and (depending on how it is handled now) the changing of fleet makeup should be much less taxing..
But knowing software and having given it very little of my time I could be way way off and no where near as clever as you guys. Basically I didn't want to say anything as I didn't want to insult you guys, your obviously experts in your field and none of the projects I have worked on remotely resemble the scale.
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:14:00 -
[10]
That is pretty awesome stuff! Yaaay!
Thanks for sharing this with us. I wish the other dev teams of CCP would have the same spirit of good communication with us players as Team Gridlock and CCP Veritas in special!
Now, in the video was mentioned that a typical tick is aggregrating data of what happened and then sending it. Even though the sending of the data seems to scale really well, it still took quite a bit. Will that change with the CarbonIO and BlueNet? If I remember right it was said that you can delegate the sending to completely independent demons.
And this Telemetry tools seemd to be really handy, nice nice. |
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Yar'vak
Morningstar Technologies Ltd. Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:29:00 -
[11]
There is only one problem. To keep the current behaviour, you have to check if the person with the lowest speed is on grid, and if not search for the person on grid with the lowest warp-speed.
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Rrama Ratamnim
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:30:00 -
[12]
NOICE A DEVBLOG, ok its more a show off your new toy blog, but still its a devblog better than nothing, Veritas, any word from the other devs when more info will be coming i thought the devs said they had devblogs lined up on things that are going on and being worked on etc... its been oftly quiet for a while now.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Gnulpie Now, in the video was mentioned that a typical tick is aggregrating data of what happened and then sending it. Even though the sending of the data seems to scale really well, it still took quite a bit. Will that change with the CarbonIO and BlueNet? If I remember right it was said that you can delegate the sending to completely independent demons.
Indeed, we've got a plan on the table to leverage BlueNet to get a bulk of that load off of the main thread entirely. A first step to the dream of a multi-threaded Eve server
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:38:00 -
[14]
The Devblog is a lie folks, it's just Veritas' way of distracting from the real issue...fixing lag! I mean, imagine all of the lags that could have been repaired were you not working on this crappy webcam vid....wait a minute...
Serisouly though, great Dev blog. Love the tool, it reminds me (visually) a bit of the Ableton Live interface. This should be a great tool to have in the fight against lags.
Very slick new hairdo btw, you look so spiffy. ______________________
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) |
Flynn Fetladral
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:40:00 -
[15]
NEW HAIRCUT! That almost blew me away as much as the new toy! That's a seriously impressive toy btw.
Follow Flynn on Twitter |
E man Industries
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:42:00 -
[16]
Nice. I know nothing about PC's other than they let me play eve and look at *censored*
Was glad to see you can see exactly how long it takes to do everything. Looking forward to some huge fights. ______ Hello WoW players. Look at your toon, now back to me. Sadly it isn't me, but if it wasn't simplistic pre scripted linear mono dimensional game you could look like me. I'm in a Paladin |
Bienator II
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:42:00 -
[17]
looks like intel's OpenCL kernel analyser. Apropos OpenCL... ;)
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WachinDaGame DrinkinABud
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:43:00 -
[18]
I think that everyone's group of 5 drones should act as one in terms of damage calculations and such. Why do the same job 5 times when once will suffice?
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TheSmokingHertog
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Posted - 2011.07.27 15:53:00 -
[19]
Can't you post a HD zoomable object with a snapshot of such a fight as shown in the video?, with some pointers what is what?
Maybe the crowd can even give feedback / idea's on such process flow.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:01:00 -
[20]
Aaand I'm a horrible human being for not giving credit to CCP Snorlax over in Core for his work getting Telemetry integrated with our tech in the first place. He's one of those dudes I talked about above who are using it for client profiling~
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Xercodo
Amarr Xovoni Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: WachinDaGame DrinkinABud I think that everyone's group of 5 drones should act as one in terms of damage calculations and such. Why do the same job 5 times when once will suffice?
ya, make grouped drones worked a little like grouped guns maybe?
i know their movements thru 3D space still needs individual processing but the commands given and then dmg calculations might be able to be done on a more abstract level
-------------------------------------------------- The drake is a lie |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:02:00 -
[22]
Awesome devblog, and the new profiler looks really frigging useful. Definitely do more video devblogs in future, and more with Veritas and Team Gridlock :D.
Is the profiler collecting data all the time or must a node be set up for it in advance? And does the record-keeping add any additional load to the server node?
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Nyphur Is the profiler collecting data all the time or must a node be set up for it in advance? And does the record-keeping add any additional load to the server node?
It's a rather large pile of data, so it's only run when we go in and turn it on.
It does at a small amount of load, but a large bulk of it is in another thread so it does not impact the server's ability to keep up significantly.
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deathpain
Gallente The Graduates
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:15:00 -
[24]
Thanks Veritas, this kind of Blog is something that lets us see what you guys are up too and is definitly something I would like to see more off.
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Internet Knight
The Kobayashi Maru
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: CCP Veritas errr, this is basically... uhhh... a bunch of things happening... and we're putting together all the data of what needs to be told to the clients for it...
Love you Veritas. You're a true geek. Just, I don't love you *that* way, you know.
So, errr, this Telemetry program... do you think you could... like... show a live version of it working during a fleet fight? Then all them people in fleet twiddling their thumbs can go HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS and then watch as they try to make Telemetry go WIZZ WHOO WHEEEE...
That'd be cool.
---
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Sentient Blade
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:21:00 -
[26]
That is a very impressive looking profiling suite. How much data is the server kicking out into the profiler each minute?
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Charles Dickins
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:28:00 -
[27]
I wish I could work for CCP and just stare at that pretty telemetry and list down all the things that could be improved. It would be such a gratifying job.
I don't live in 0.0, no do I take part in massive fleet fights, but, EVE is forever, and I want to at least contribute more than just bug reports. :)
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islador
Gallente Frontier Explorer's League
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:29:00 -
[28]
I also immediately ran across the "pre-calculated warp speed" optimization. I'm an amateur coder and skilled FC, so the first thing that popped into my head is "Yeah, every 5 minutes it doesn't matter, but when I'm pinging a 25 man bomber team or a 15 man ceptor/dictor gang around in a system with 1050 people, I don't wanna wait 300ms for it to kick in."
The specific fix that kicked into my head was that warp speed can be a calculated variable offloaded to the character node or whichever one you're using for misc crap these days. Essentially what I would do is have each fleet, wing and squad have a master warp value. This value is re-checked each time someone reships or a new person joins the squad/wing/fleet. Because this forms a bottom up system, you would only need to calc out the values of each squad, from that point on, determining the slowest speed in each wing/fleet is just a matter of comparing the master values. Since warp values are pre-calculated by whatever handles the application of skills + rigs to the ship, you would run a comparison across the squad. Each time an individual joins a squad (and thus the fleet) the process would need to compare the squad value against the new pilots ship, if he's slower, the squad value is equal to it. Unfortunately because you have to recalculate this value each time someone reships/joins the fleet you have a massive amount of processing during mass fleet forming and reships. For this reason you'd want a grace period of a couple seconds immediately after a fleet advert is made, say 2 seconds to throw out an arbitrary value.
During the first 2 seconds when a fleet link is posted you'll see 50 to 250 pilots join up, this will give your calculation a base value based on the ships currently flown. Most fleets form up in station, system lag shouldn't be too high during the forming stages, even with pilots constantly reshipping and moving around squads to setup the fleet hierarchy. This also doesn't handle podding well, as we wouldn't want fleet warp set to 0 when someone takes the capsule express.
The next hurdle is how this calculation would impede on fleets during combat. As pilots are reduced to pods and eventually their clone bay each reship would result in a recalculation of fleet warp speed. I don't know enough about how the podding process works, but in order to preserve game mechanics, anyone not in a ship (pods are ships) would need to have their value removed from the equation without having themselves removed from the fleet, so as far as fleet-warp is concerned, they are a null value if they aren't in a ship.
Pods are a little harder to handle as they are produced mid-combat and not calculating at each reshipping would alter game mechanics. For this reason, 3000 characters into this post, I've been forced to accept that the concept of trading a value calculated on the fly for a pre-calced master value sounds nice, but isn't feasible in EVE based on my knowledge. I say this because the performance bottleneck we're trying to avoid is the 300ms while initiating a fleet warp. The system I've described would negate that right up until someone is killed as that would force a reship and thus a recalculation, so now we're adding a couple milliseconds to the fight in exactly where we don't want it -> Right in the thick of combat. There is also the potential with this system for someone to sit in station in their carrier while being in an interceptor squad, thus slowing down the squad warp speed and perhaps the wing as well.
CCP Veritas is better equipped to determine whether a milisecond or so everytime someone is podded is a performance gain or not, and I hope he takes the time to check that at some point, but from my perspective, it isn't worth exploring.
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Rhennthyl
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:31:00 -
[29]
Originally by: T1nyTradingMan
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of that! Right now, the implementation of fleets is a bit of a mess, but I'll make a note to myself to make exactly this happen when we get around to refactoring how fleets work.
I didn't want to suggest anything knowing nothing about the actual system but this immediately jumped to my mind as well. It would make sense (not knowing the system) that on creating a fleet a fleet warp speed (the lowest) among other attributes (including a count of the number of ships with that value perhaps) was assigned to the fleet then if anyone joins the fleet compare them to that value, if anyone leaves the fleet with a warp speed equal to the fleet warp and the count mentioned earlier hits zero then the whole fleet gets pole'd again. If a ship leaves the fleet with a higher value nothing needs to change. Then entering warp would not require that activity and (depending on how it is handled now) the changing of fleet makeup should be much less taxing..
But knowing software and having given it very little of my time I could be way way off and no where near as clever as you guys. Basically I didn't want to say anything as I didn't want to insult you guys, your obviously experts in your field and none of the projects I have worked on remotely resemble the scale.
A few quick thoughts on the potential complications:
If you stored the fleet warp speed as an attribute, you would probably have to also create separate sub-fleet attributes for wings and squads since they can also be group-warped. Additionally, you would need to decide whether to refresh this value based on when someone enters/leaves grid as well as enters/leaves fleet unless you want the fleet speed to be affected by ships who will not be warping with the group. That could still be an acceptable tradeoff if the performance gain was high enough, but itĘs a consideration that may be important.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:32:00 -
[30]
amazing tool!!!
CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights? ------- The new HQ for PVE in Eve Online. www.SurvivEve.com [email protected]
[b]"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. |
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: ShadowandLight CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights?
I do believe there is a limit on how many bookmarks you can copy for exactly this reason.
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wibblesome
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:44:00 -
[32]
Edited by: wibblesome on 27/07/2011 16:46:04
Originally by: ShadowandLight amazing tool!!!
CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights?
I would be interested in seeing the data on BMs in general. My main lives in W-space and getting BMs from ANY container is a perpetual headache. With only five BMs in a can or hanger it can take 30 seconds to load. With 10 or more, it can take over a minute. Loading them into a folder in people & places is excruciatingly slow, and copying them back 5 at a time it will often take several seconds for the copy to finish! Once they're in "cargo" form, though, they can be moved between various holds/can/whatever without any trouble, as long as you've loaded the contents of whatever space you're using previously (in the same system. Ship-changing doesn't cause any issues, but if you jump out and jump back you seem to have to reload even a can you saw one minute ago from scratch).
There's a weird trick we use that seem to optimize both this and, oddly enough, loading SMAs that have lots of ships: Put it in list view.
Because we're not devs, we don't know if this is because the server takes longer to tell our clients the contents in icon view, or if it just takes our clients longer to line everything up and show them to us. It's still slow loading BMs in list view, but not as slow. The effect on loading SMAs is much more noticeable, it takes only a couple seconds vs. about a minute.
Oh, and if you load an SMA in list view and switch it to icon view, there is virtually zero lag. It would take you an extra thirty seconds at least to load it if you started in icon view, but just starting in list view is enough to cut it down!
Put that tool to work, Veritas, get in touch and I can tell you EXACTLY where to look for this kind of behavior on TQ...
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.07.27 16:49:00 -
[33]
this owns, veritas owns, gridlock owns~
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sentient Blade That is a very impressive looking profiling suite. How much data is the server kicking out into the profiler each minute?
About 100MB per minute, more or less depending on what's going on. We could trim that down a fair bit but haven't really seen the need to bother yet.
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Sgt Maru
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:01:00 -
[35]
So how do we contact Mr. Veritas if there's going to be a good fight? Will he join fleet? Might he spy for his preferred side? Need to know details before we work a deal out.
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Hashin Kyojin
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:14:00 -
[36]
Love the blog post veritas. Keep up the good work team gridlock.
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Jim Luc
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: ShadowandLight CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights?
I do believe there is a limit on how many bookmarks you can copy for exactly this reason.
I remember back when the different things like checking mail, PI, character attributes, market, etc were put on different "nodes" decoupling from the systems they are run in. Would it be easier to create a "bookmark" node that is run on another server entirely? This way it shouldn't effect the simulation in that system, should it? I would think that someone copying bookmarks should only impact his local connection bandwidth, not those of everyone in the system, just like checking your mail or typing something in chat shouldn't effect the space simulation.
Also - would revamping how fleets work allow for fleet formations?
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Ilarra
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:23:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Sgt Maru So how do we contact Mr. Veritas if there's going to be a good fight? Will he join fleet? Might he spy for his preferred side? Need to know details before we work a deal out.
Presumably you just need to report the fight using the fleet fight notifier. I imagine Veritas gets a notification any time a node reinforcement request comes in.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:33:00 -
[39]
CCP Veritas,
That part on the warp speed and warping.
I know you said it wasnt worth looking into, because I happens once every 5 minutes and such, however from the client perspective, even if a fleet warp is given many of us still miss it. Do you know why that may happen?
Also just for the sake of being nit picky, when the fleet is forming, why not have a tool that grabs the warp speed of everyone as they join fleet to skip that step of having to grab everyone's warp speed. I know you say it's small but it's the adding up stuff. when you have 2 fleets of 250 people moving all at the same time those little calls add up. Anyway it's just a thought.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:38:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sgt Maru So how do we contact Mr. Veritas if there's going to be a good fight? Will he join fleet? Might he spy for his preferred side? Need to know details before we work a deal out.
I don't join fleets, but I do come in my cloakyship and watch the fireworks. For science, you understand.
I hold no preferred side on any fight. My interest lies in making the infrastructure of the game operate well; whatever you guys do with it is up to you.
Now, as for how to contact me, the community reps know how to get ahold of me, as do the CSM guys. Probably easiest to shake either of those types of people if something's going down *right now*. Of course, if you know of a fight that's going to happen after the next downtime, the fleet fight notification tool is your friend and mine. And everyone's really.
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Twilight Runner
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:55:00 -
[41]
What about a giant Pew Pew event in Hi-sec, make a system 0.0 for a 10mins, to get some data.
everyone who looses a ship gets 20 mil.
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Catherine Blacke
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Posted - 2011.07.27 17:57:00 -
[42]
Team Gridlock, you are doing god's work. You said "**** pansying around in stations, we're going to make this game better," and now you're doing it. CCP needs to give teams like you more money, to focus on the actual game. You have all my thanks.
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Mikel Laurentson
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Posted - 2011.07.27 18:34:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Jim Luc
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: ShadowandLight CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights?
I do believe there is a limit on how many bookmarks you can copy for exactly this reason.
I remember back when the different things like checking mail, PI, character attributes, market, etc were put on different "nodes" decoupling from the systems they are run in. Would it be easier to create a "bookmark" node that is run on another server entirely? This way it shouldn't effect the simulation in that system, should it? I would think that someone copying bookmarks should only impact his local connection bandwidth, not those of everyone in the system, just like checking your mail or typing something in chat shouldn't effect the space simulation.
Also - would revamping how fleets work allow for fleet formations?
Anything that improves how BMs work would be nice. The time the system takes to display BMs in cans and POS hangars is insane.
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.27 18:39:00 -
[44]
Thanks for sharing the video with everyone Veritas. Another one in a long line of interesting devblogs by your team, keep them coming :-) ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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Salpad
Caldari Carebears with Attitude
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Posted - 2011.07.27 18:52:00 -
[45]
Keep up the good work!
I was talking to some noobs a few days ago, telling htem about how in the bad old days, Jita was screwed up by lag at any time except on Sundays when it was even worse, and it didn't make any sense to them.
Keep optimizing the game code and game functioning, so it scales better, and you won't need to upgrade hardware so often. And time dillation also sounds like a great idea (at elast if you read what it is actually about), so I hope you'll get around to that too, soon.
-- Salpad |
VonKolroth
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.07.27 19:03:00 -
[46]
Thanks for the good DEV blog and and explaining a bit how you are going about combating lag. More then that, I have to say I'm impressed with the use of video in the DEV blog. Everyone knows it will be easier for the plebs to follow ;-). I hope the use of video's become a trend with dev blogs, It does make things easier for all of us to follow and there is a lot less room for eve players to mistake the "tone" of dev blogs in general.
~
A man with a Domi analyzes every problem in the terms of drones. |
Skogen Gump
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.07.27 19:43:00 -
[47]
Great stuff Veritas, looks very informative. As a developer myself, i enjoy the creation of tools, so this is fantastic stuff.
However, your blog text might need tweaking as this means something else, when taken out of context :)
Originally by: CCP Veritas I fancy myself a large kid
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.07.27 19:49:00 -
[48]
You guys are doing an amazing job, Veritas, thank you. In the big fight in VFK in Deklein a couple of weeks ago (on a reinforced node) there was bearly any lag. Keep up the great work
Find us on Facebook at facebook.com/evedefenceforce
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Noble Noob
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Posted - 2011.07.27 22:05:00 -
[49]
Concerning fleet warp
If I understand correctly, you find all of the warp speeds for each ship and force all of the ships to warp at the slowest speed.
Simplify the checking. Have the system only check for class of ships and set a speed based on that class of ship.
Set a predetermined speed you want as the "Fleet Warpspeed" for each class.
Then the system only has to determine what is the slowest class of ship in the fleet and set the "Fleet Warpspeed" to the predetermined speed.
This allows for standardized warp speed but also allows for players to make faster or slower fleets based on ship classes in the fleet.
This can also be used for "Flying in Formation" if that ever gets around. When a fleet makes a formation then, all movement stats are set at a predetermined level according to the class of ships in the fleet.
Speed, agility, etc. 10 frigs = preset frig movement 9 frigs/1BS = preset BS movement 5 frigs/5 destroyers = preset destroyer movement
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Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries The Black Armada
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Posted - 2011.07.27 22:12:00 -
[50]
Awesome Tool!!!
Any chance at making a tool to increase Art Department's productivity and give them the ability to redesign large objects (like stations and capitals) to make use of the new graphics engine???
Would like to have a POS redesign within this decade!!!! =P
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Mirei Jun
Right to Rule THE UNTHINKABLES
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Posted - 2011.07.27 22:14:00 -
[51]
Very good development blog. This is the sort of thing a "Dev Blog" is supposed to be used for. -Hope to see more like this.
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Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.27 23:19:00 -
[52]
Can you make the bars different colors? Or do you just like green? Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.07.27 23:55:00 -
[53]
Thank you for the devblog. It's always nice to see tools that help fighting against lag. |
King Kazma Usoko
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Posted - 2011.07.27 23:56:00 -
[54]
I have an idea :
The warp speed check could be reduced if you introduce a module/rig/subsystem/crew onboard on a commandship/command t3 that sets the fleet warp speed to a value i.e. like 6/au per second.
So you dont need the clients answer, you r just sending.
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Johnathan Roark
Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.28 00:09:00 -
[55]
Nice tool. Wondering if doing some of these processes on server gpu would help?
POS-Tracker 3.0 Hosting |
DeftCrow Redriver
Gallente Best Path Inc. Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.07.28 00:50:00 -
[56]
Prrrreatty diagrams! Thanks for informing us Veritas, I'm sure Carl Sagan would be pleased.
One simple question; before you finally pull off time dilation as the ultimate solution against lag, do you have any plans to turn command modules and drone control units into passive modules instead of active modules as they are now? I've heard turning command modules on/off with a large fleet can contribute significantly to the load on destiny, although I have no experiences with both modules. -----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Zulu It is CCPęs plan that the Noble Exchange (NeX store) will be used for the sale of vanity items only.
...... We'll see. |
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
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Posted - 2011.07.28 00:55:00 -
[57]
Very cool blog, Veritas. You're going to regret zooming on on that Fleet Warp though... everyone seems prepared to solve that problem for you. :p
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Foraminifera
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Posted - 2011.07.28 01:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of that! Right now, the implementation of fleets is a bit of a mess, but I'll make a note to myself to make exactly this happen when we get around to refactoring how fleets work.
Tiny problem I see with that. What about a group of e.g. interceptors being on the other side of the system, warping their squad around? They would be as slow as the freighter that is still sitting in a station 2 jumps away . My guess is that this is why there's the "we check each and every ship that got the fleetwarp" thing, you never know who actually gets the fleetwarp until they are off. What if the guy in the freighter cancels warp? But then again I have no idea when that calculation happens ( at the beginning where everyone sees the "warping text" or the actual warp tunnel ).... need to stop thinking about .... what about having a sorted list of the warpspeeds? First hit that is also on the field is who counts, I guess on average that would lead to less checks then all people in gang, also running the sort doesn't hap.... Dammit I wanna play with spaceships not think about algorithms... get out of my head!
Have fun with that.
Heh, and I guess your profiler beats running your software inside valgrind when it comes to performance ... though the helgrind tool is one hell of a great way to find race conditions in programs that use pthreads in any way.
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.07.28 02:34:00 -
[59]
Few things for people to remember when throwing out their "solutions"
1) Just checking the ship type would ignore any other factors such rigs that modify the base warp speed of a ship...
2) Group drones - doesn't work if 1) the drones are different class - e.g. Myrm with 2 heavy, 2 med and 1 scout or 2) due to the fact drones orbit and therefore may or may not be in optimal range etc... depending on their speed vs target speed (think warrior 2s chasing something fast like a dram etc...).
3) The issue is the ships on grid vs in fleet when the XXX warp is initiated (squad/wing/fleet) - only ships on grid warp.
4) As others have pointed out, making one semi-expensive call only when required may actually be more efficent then making repeated updates that take a small amount of time but happen many times when looking at the overall use of system resources
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.07.28 05:43:00 -
[60]
Oh ****, this is awesome _
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.28 06:15:00 -
[61]
Sweet tool and thanks for sharing.
I have to say that on reinforced nodes, fleet fights have actually become much more responsive.
I would like to ask if there's anything share concerning development on non-reinforced nodes or potential ideas you've had to assist combating lag when we have spur of the moment encounters. As you know, sometimes your enemy can use lag to gain an advantage and intentionally not requesting for reinforcement has been used as an offensive tactic a few times.
Again, thanks for all your hard work. For those of us who participate in large fleet fights, we've seen a difference.
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Ciar Meara
Amarr Virtus Vindice
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Posted - 2011.07.28 07:20:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Ciar Meara on 28/07/2011 07:21:34 A nice peak at the awesome new tools in fighting lag and improving server performance. Nicely done!
I do however have to report CCP veritas for sexual harrasement he wanted my 'delicous data that came out of my pew pew' this sort of talk is clearly inappropriate.
edit: Your office/bedroom wall is really sad - Hilmar getur ekki tala= vi= ¦ig n·na, hann er a= fara ß japanska Tfskuverslun.
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DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
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Posted - 2011.07.28 07:21:00 -
[63]
Great devblog, we need more of these instead of marketing stuff.
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Mr Bobby
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Posted - 2011.07.28 07:38:00 -
[64]
you could also look at allowing the ISD`s or BH to initiate the telemetry tool on fights above a certain size. since there are more of them than just you I think. this would give you a wider set of data which as far as i know is more usefull.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.07.28 11:46:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Baneken on 28/07/2011 11:51:07
Originally by: Kenpachi Viktor The lowest ship warp speed is a known factor. Would it make sense to stop looking at warp speeds if a ship in fleet is found with the lowest warp speed?
There are some extraordinary useless rigs that increase your warp sped hence each ship has to be checked individually, also some of the fleet might by in bubble or scrammed and some aren't which like slows it down a bit.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.28 11:52:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zagdul I would like to ask if there's anything share concerning development on non-reinforced nodes or potential ideas you've had to assist combating lag when we have spur of the moment encounters. As you know, sometimes your enemy can use lag to gain an advantage and intentionally not requesting for reinforcement has been used as an offensive tactic a few times.
A lot of the things we've been fixing help non-reinforced nodes the same, if not more, than dedicated nodes. I've noticed the performance between those two setups converge a bit, so things are getting better on that front as well.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.28 11:53:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Ciar Meara edit: Your office/bedroom wall is really sad
That'd be my living room. It is very sad. One of the downsides to renting - can't paint the place ><
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Meissa Anunthiel
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Posted - 2011.07.28 12:02:00 -
[68]
Originally by: DeftCrow Redriver Prrrreatty diagrams! Thanks for informing us Veritas, I'm sure Carl Sagan would be pleased.
One simple question; before you finally pull off time dilation as the ultimate solution against lag, do you have any plans to turn command modules and drone control units into passive modules instead of active modules as they are now? I've heard turning command modules on/off with a large fleet can contribute significantly to the load on destiny, although I have no experiences with both modules.
Time Dialation is not a solution to lag, it's there to make sure that under lag things are even for all sides. The objective should still be to be able to fight undialated with a bazillion pilots on grid.
As far as command modules are concerned, it's not a good idea. A pilot can currently have more command modules fitted on a BC/CS that he can use. My standard CS fit, for instance, has 6 command links fitted, only 4 of which can be active at once. That allows one to, as an example, switch from the link providing decreased sig size (to decrease incoming damage) to the link providing extra point/web range when the ennemy is mostly defeated and attempts to run away. Also, command ship links consume cap (which makes CSes vulnerable if they're neuted). ----- Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6. My blog
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UniqueOne
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.28 12:22:00 -
[69]
In addition to grouping drones, should give them a warp drive too... like a fighter but they don't follow others into warp (if assigned).
This would fix galente and make drones useful in pvp again. A weapon that can only be used once (until you warp out) is sorta stupid :)
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Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.07.28 12:58:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 28/07/2011 12:58:31
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: ShadowandLight CCP Veritas, its been suggested that players are able to cause lag using the copy bookmark feature (copying many thousands at one time during a fight)
Is this true? Can you verify? Would it be possible to tweak features like this to prevent abuse during large fights?
I do believe there is a limit on how many bookmarks you can copy for exactly this reason.
We wspace people would like null seccers banned from TQ so that we aren't forced to suffer nerfs to features that are vital for playing.
Already forced to suffer things like waiting 10 minutes for a cargo can to load because there's 5 bookmarks in it.
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Shian Achura
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.07.28 13:45:00 -
[71]
Originally by: CCP Veritas That'd be my living room. It is very sad. One of the downsides to renting - can't paint the place ><
OT: If I'm not mistaken, you indeed ARE allowed to repaint it. But you have to keep a bucket of the other color available to paint it in the original color, or one close to it. And it always helps to remind the landlord that a renter with happy colors is a happy renter and a happy renter is more happy to pay rent..
BTT: You guys have a pretty cool program. But why is it all green? Wouldn't it be something nice if you could add a few more colors? Like add the yellow power of fear into it.. Different colors might help you with fast overview. Like something that should happen once every 10 minutes in yellow shows you "that is okay, even if it's close to a second. but it's not okay to see it every 15 seconds here"...
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Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.07.28 15:11:00 -
[72]
U can make a tool that gives reinforcement times of structures in certain regions. Combine that with a tool that buzzes u when local in those systems exeeds 600 people it might be easier for u. Connext that to your cellphone so that u get text message eveytime battel is going on it would speed up stuffs. If not, keep a eye on the southrnt systems.
ps: wtb decent english grammar
Fix Black Op's |
Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.28 15:45:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Zagdul on 28/07/2011 15:47:31 Edited by: Zagdul on 28/07/2011 15:45:19
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Zagdul I would like to ask if there's anything share concerning development on non-reinforced nodes or potential ideas you've had to assist combating lag when we have spur of the moment encounters. As you know, sometimes your enemy can use lag to gain an advantage and intentionally not requesting for reinforcement has been used as an offensive tactic a few times.
A lot of the things we've been fixing help non-reinforced nodes the same, if not more, than dedicated nodes. I've noticed the performance between those two setups converge a bit, so things are getting better on that front as well.
Thanks for the answer.
One more if you get the time.
Does Tranq drop unused systems and resources from a node in "real-time" when load increases?
it seems to me that, possibly slamming on "Traffic control" for "common routes" to hot systems and booting a few systems off a node would help.
I believe that when spikes in a node happen, (VFK last week for example) that there must be something the server can do in order to assist the fight out.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.07.28 18:21:00 -
[74]
Holy Mousewheel Abuse, Batman!
For Goddess sake, kick the people around you and get them to give you a mouse with free-spin capability (most newer Logitechs have it).
My fingers ached just listening to that poor wheel being molested so
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Hykke
Free Imperial Vikings
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Posted - 2011.07.28 19:48:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Hykke on 28/07/2011 19:50:39
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
That's a really good idea, I hadn't thought of that! Right now, the implementation of fleets is a bit of a mess, but I'll make a note to myself to make exactly this happen when we get around to refactoring how fleets work.
Don't throw the old code away just yet. Whenever a ship leaves a fleet, and the ship happens to have the current lowest warp speed, then you no longer know what the lowest warp speed is in the fleet and you will have to either recalculate, or wait until the next warp, and use the old way of warping to recalculate the value (I like to wait with the recalculations until the value is actually needed).
And then I have not even mentioned other issues there might be with ships not even in the system, but still slowing down the fleet inside the system, because they happen to be the slowest ships in the fleet. The problem is ... can the slowest warp speed actually always be calculated as a single number for the entire fleet.
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.07.28 20:47:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 28/07/2011 20:57:22
Originally by: Sessym Great tool there!
Also, just curious, wouldn't it be better from an optimization viewpoint if everything that applied to the whole fleet (like warp speed) would be an attribute of the fleet itself? Every bit of free CPU time is useful, no?
I suspect every single viewer who has written a line of code thought exactly the same thing as you at exactly the same instant in the vid. Though most would have assumed that Veritas had thought of that too and that fleet optimization would be something added when fleets are reworked for formations etc.
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel As far as command modules are concerned, it's not a good idea. A pilot can currently have more command modules fitted on a BC/CS that he can use. My standard CS fit, for instance, has 6 command links fitted, only 4 of which can be active at once. That allows one to, as an example, switch from the link providing decreased sig size (to decrease incoming damage) to the link providing extra point/web range when the ennemy is mostly defeated and attempts to run away. Also, command ship links consume cap (which makes CSes vulnerable if they're neuted).
Many people would disagree and think this sort of optimization was an EXCELLENT idea and EXACTLY the sort of out of the box thinking that CCP should be doing. Current game mechanics should never be, and never has been sacrosanct when looking at optimization that improve the gaming experience for the vast majority of us. Cap usage could be replaced with cap size penalties like MWDs and the number of people unhappy with it would be trivial.
When you are arguing to retain obscure functionality, do try to remember how few people CARE about the specifics when the gains are better gaming experience.
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.07.29 02:14:00 -
[77]
I noticed that when you gave details of how a part of the game works, the fleet warp, many suggestions were made on how to speed it up. I even got my own.
The fleet warp speed does not need to be found until the fleet accelerates up to that speed. There are several seconds between actually entering warp, and getting to the 0.7 AU/sec speed. During that time Destiny could be finding the top speed given everyone who happened to get scooped up in the warp. If lag slows the process, the warp would only be at the slowest warp speed (0.7 AU/sec?) until a higher speed is found acceptable.
But that's not my main point. We got a crowd sourcing process going on, on how to reduce lag. CCP Veritas, maybe you need to do more of this. Show us more details of things that really make a big difference and see if we can come up with more ideas you have not considered.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.07.29 06:23:00 -
[78]
Did 46DP-O get observed by this tool during the laggy fleet fight that happened there a couple days ago. Was any new and helpful info found? Was it reinforced? Thanks for the devblog. Lets get lag fixed so you guys can work on pos code and other things that need fixing Fixes cant get deployed fast enough. Has the new fleet fight blade been used in the game yet? There as been no news
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Kandreath
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:23:00 -
[79]
Ohhhhhhhh, Telemetry! Love it.
Nice blog. Another sharp edged tool to kill that lag. Die lag! DIE DIE DIE!
Slash it, chop it!!! hack at it until it's all gone!!!!
(I'm ok .... really)
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:31:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Zagdul Does Tranq drop unused systems and resources from a node in "real-time" when load increases?
Not really, no. Unused systems are exceptionally low load though, being unused, so not much to be gained there. Moving systems with people in them causes those people to get disconnected, which is something we don't want an automatic system to do for us. We sometimes do those moves manually when we believe it will help more than it hurts.
Originally by: Zagdul I believe that when spikes in a node happen, (VFK last week for example) that there must be something the server can do in order to assist the fight out.
I agree, and that's why I'm working on Time Dilation
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.29 10:37:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Holy Mousewheel Abuse, Batman!
For Goddess sake, kick the people around you and get them to give you a mouse with free-spin capability (most newer Logitechs have it).
My fingers ached just listening to that poor wheel being molested so
Hah, I had actually planned to go get one this very day. This mouse has received considerable abuse and has basically given up. It will live out its days as a children's toy.
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.07.29 11:47:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Salpun Did 46DP-O get observed by this tool during the laggy fleet fight that happened there a couple days ago. Was any new and helpful info found? Was it reinforced?
It did not unfortunately, I missed it. The node was reinforced. Being the heaviest load fight we've seen in a while, we were able to verify that some fixes we did a couple months back had their desired effect though, so hurray for that. I'll be typing up a devblog about that here before too long.
I suspect there'll be more fights of this kind soon, so I'm keeping my eye out so I can get some sweet sweet data from them.
Originally by: Salpun Has the new fleet fight blade been used in the game yet? There as been no news
It hasn't. Last I heard, it was coming into service sometime in the next month. I'm not certain on that though.
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Silicon Sailor
Northgate
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Posted - 2011.07.29 14:27:00 -
[83]
Nice tool.
On a side note, I was interested to learn about the (obvious when ya think about it) polling to determine "slowest speed" for Fleet Warps. I wonder how much time you could save by initiating a warp by voice (Fleet, Warp yourself Now, Now, Now) vs. taking them in a group warp... Upside = the warp might initiate sooner, and might be "better" on the end, allowing you to See & Shoot quicker Downside = "faster" ships would arrive first... this may be a bad thing, depending on how MUCH faster they arrive....
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Everseeker
Caldari Northgate
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Posted - 2011.07.29 15:07:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Everseeker on 29/07/2011 15:07:41 OK, You can only deploy the tool on a limited basis... You reinforce nodes on notification of a probable attack...
Ummm... wouldn't it be "the thing to do" to make a practice of ALWAYS deploying your tool when nodes are reinforced?
<wave> Hi Sailor </Wave> --
EverSeeker |
Nieero
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Posted - 2011.07.30 11:28:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Nieero on 30/07/2011 11:28:57 I understand, if a party in a given scenario would benefit from a lagged out node, they will simply initiate fleetwarps of their gangs repeatedly?!
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MegabitOne
Caldari The Black Ops
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Posted - 2011.07.30 14:25:00 -
[86]
After all post-release woes, this is one of the most informative dev blogs we've seen in a long time! Concise, not too long, enough information, not too much, easily explained, etc. I would also like to thank CCP Veritas to have taken the time to follow up on the thread and be active in it by providing answers to questions from players.
Kudos to CCP Veritas and Team Gridlock on this one! May the others take this dev blog as an example and hopefully many more like these may follow!! --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway!
-= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =- |
Vincent Jarjadian
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Posted - 2011.07.30 21:21:00 -
[87]
This is certainly very interesting... and something i would like to see more of from CCP.
How about doing monitoring on some systems like jita or others... or ones where reinforcement timers are coming out and posting the logs to the community... could lead to more of them analysed and more issues like fleet warps coming up as causing delay.
Can you check the following: How many fleet warps are performed each Day? Do other fleet commands have similar affects of delay like: regroup, target broadcasts, watch lists etc
Could an attribute be added to fleets called 'FleetWarpSpeed' or something... and when a person joins a fleet or enters a ship within a fleet the server compares their ships warp speed to the reference one in the new attribute. Since fleet joins/ship entries are not usually performed in combat this could allow less of these big spikes... Especially since in a fleet battle a fleet may be warped multiple times or even multiple dozen times, meaning big spikes of CPU usage calculating the same thing over and over again.
Or alternativly... the slowest warp speed is 0.75 AU/s You could set this as the default warp speed for fleets, meaning fleet warping could be less used or more tactically used... But it would at least relieve some stress on the server.
Also could you program the servers to spread nodes with reinforcement timers across multiple servers as this is likely where battles will occur... It might mean less of them on the same node and possibly improve things slightly.
Additionally... since you know something about the servers workings... Have CCP considered using more powerful servers for reinforced nodes? The current CPUs are, according to the wiki, two dual core 3.3GHz per blade... If CCP used one or two newer X5690 Xeon CPUs which are 6 cores running at 3.46GHz... with an extra boost from turbo mode, these servers could handle the biggest battles, or even 12 of them simultaneously. Also... they can handle a lot of memory so that could be an advantage as well. You could even overclock them to or past 4GHz and get even more performance (I've seen some on searches running 4.5GHz)... It's not cheap but it could be beneficial...
Also... Some of the new sandy bridge CPUs are reaching 5GHz... are you aware of any plans to produce server grade versions of these?
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.31 16:02:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Zagdul on 31/07/2011 16:04:50 Edited by: Zagdul on 31/07/2011 16:04:27
Originally by: CCP Veritas
Originally by: Zagdul Does Tranq drop unused systems and resources from a node in "real-time" when load increases?
Not really, no. Unused systems are exceptionally low load though, being unused, so not much to be gained there. Moving systems with people in them causes those people to get disconnected, which is something we don't want an automatic system to do for us. We sometimes do those moves manually when we believe it will help more than it hurts.
Originally by: Zagdul I believe that when spikes in a node happen, (VFK last week for example) that there must be something the server can do in order to assist the fight out.
I agree, and that's why I'm working on Time Dilation
The thought I had was if someone decides to use an unused system as a mid point for supers, or one of the unused systems is a choke for getting people to the encounter.
By removing it from the node, if/when a fleet who is trying to catch up goes through, it would no longer effect the encounter happening.
Also, thanks for the work on time dilation.
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.07.31 16:08:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian
The current CPUs are, according to the wiki, two dual core 3.3GHz per blade... If CCP used one or two newer X5690 Xeon CPUs which are 6 cores running at 3.46GHz... with an extra boost from turbo mode, these servers could handle the biggest battles, or even 12 of them simultaneously. Also... they can handle a lot of memory so that could be an advantage as well. You could even overclock them to or past 4GHz and get even more performance (I've seen some on searches running 4.5GHz)... It's not cheap but it could be beneficial...
Also... Some of the new sandy bridge CPUs are reaching 5GHz... are you aware of any plans to produce server grade versions of these?
The CPU's on tranq are more powerful PER CORE than the new Xeons.
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DeadlyThreat
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Posted - 2011.07.31 23:14:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Zagdul The CPU's on tranq are more powerful PER CORE than the new Xeons.
Are you saying that the Wolfdale architecture is faster than the Westmere-EP architecture?
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CCP Veritas
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Posted - 2011.08.01 11:16:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian Also could you program the servers to spread nodes with reinforcement timers across multiple servers as this is likely where battles will occur... It might mean less of them on the same node and possibly improve things slightly.
This is done for sov timers at least - we reinforce sov-based fights fairly well these days. As always, fleet fight notifications are helpful, but this does serve as an okay guess.
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian Additionally... since you know something about the servers workings... Have CCP considered using more powerful servers for reinforced nodes?
We've been using "supernodes" for a while now, initially for Jita and then for fleet fight reinforcement nodes. The optimizations we've done in the past year have allowed us to focus more of our hardware spend servicing the occasional highly loaded system instead of having to worry about the general cluster. A brand new supernode (who's specs I do not have handy, sorry) is on its way to TQ in the next month or so
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Vincent Jarjadian
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Posted - 2011.08.01 19:26:00 -
[92]
If only all of the Devs were this communicative :)
would be lovely to know what CCP is using for their super nodes... Hopefully you can get hold of what the new one will be, and even the current super node hardware specs arent listed in the EVElopedia.
Hopefully CCP will look over this responce thread and see how us customers can make a good contribution when we're interacted with.
Could you maybe post some raw jita telemetry so us mere mortals could see into the process of analysing how TQ works... must be difficult analysing 135GB of data between downtimes per core/node...
How much you think grouping of non weapon mods such as shield/armor hardeners would help the server? Most of these get activated at the same time and could save the server something...
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Har Harrison
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2011.08.02 02:41:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Vincent Jarjadian If only all of the Devs were this communicative :)
If only devs came back with the follow up that was promised...
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1489084
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Zagdul
Gallente Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.08.02 07:29:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Zagdul on 02/08/2011 07:33:37
Originally by: DeadlyThreat
Originally by: Zagdul The CPU's on tranq are more powerful PER CORE than the new Xeons.
Are you saying that the Wolfdale architecture is faster than the Westmere-EP architecture?
No.
Faster != better per core performance.
Yes, the new Xeons 32nm 10 core tech is gorgeous with 30mb of cache for multi tasking.
however, for single threaded tech and tasking the way python handles it, right now the only thing that can match it is the cell tech or new GPU's nvidia are putting out on a per core speed and gflops. Both would require a full code rewrite of the server engine.
I'm very sure people will correct me for being a moron here if I'm wrong, but this has been stated in multiple dev blogs as to why sometimes the "fast" processor doesn't translate to "best" for tranquility as the servers require a specific type of processor, not always the one that benchmarks nicely.
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Salpun
Gallente Paramount Commerce
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Posted - 2011.08.02 21:10:00 -
[95]
As soon as Bluenet gets applyed on the spaceship side some of the talking points about the unusablity of multicores might go out the window. I see some big wins in the future.
Then they can focus on Crime watch so that HS/LS will not grind to a halt when big fights happen.
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Mollernak
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.05 01:38:00 -
[96]
That is a simply gorgeous tool..... I have had to look after some fairly complex systems in my time, and this sort of tool has always been my dream to get my hands on.
Very very jealous, but that said, happy it's you guys that have got your dirty little mitts on it.
A picture is worth a 1000 words, but a video is worth a book... Keep up this sort of "show and tell" blog, it's great for us to see what you guys are doing.
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Vincent Jarjadian
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Posted - 2011.08.09 20:37:00 -
[97]
I've been reading up on some of the technologies used atm to move virtual servers, such as Virtualbox's 'Teleport' feature... Supposedly they can move a VM between hosts while it is operating without disruption...
could this be used to remap lightly loaded systems off of heavily used nodes... might mean less horrific code, but also might mean more server OS licences required...
I know it's been said that lightly loaded systems dont affect the heavily loaded ones... but every little helps and is doesnt look that hard to do...
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Kyros Emerson
Amarr Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.26 06:31:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Kyros Emerson on 26/08/2011 06:33:06 Im not the most techno-savvy guy, but heres my question: You mentioned 'this is not a reenforced node', and that there were 1000+ people in the system. Has CCP considered making/inventing/theorycrafting a Dynamic Node Re-enforcement thing that detects when there are a large group of players in an area, and then reenforces said node automatically? Is that what the guy above me was saying about teleporting?
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drinking12many
Minmatar Nine Inch Ninja Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.26 15:18:00 -
[99]
Edited by: drinking12many on 26/08/2011 15:18:36
Originally by: Kyros Emerson Edited by: Kyros Emerson on 26/08/2011 06:33:06 Im not the most techno-savvy guy, but heres my question: You mentioned 'this is not a reenforced node', and that there were 1000+ people in the system. Has CCP considered making/inventing/theorycrafting a Dynamic Node Re-enforcement thing that detects when there are a large group of players in an area, and then reenforces said node automatically? Is that what the guy above me was saying about teleporting?
The problem with doing that was stated above to move it to another node to reinforce it would disconnect everyone in any other systems running on the same node when they move them.
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K Kerryngktonn
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Posted - 2011.08.27 21:41:00 -
[100]
That's some very nice tech pron indeed! I remember the first time I profiled my PHP code with a cache grind, I was happy as a pig, but this telemetry thing of yours is so detailed, visually appealing and intuitive after the initial "omg what's that?!" state! This tool should not only help fight with fleet lags, but presents a good opportunity to profile other game aspects as well, for which I'm very grateful :)
Hope you don't run out of space dumping all the telemetry data.
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ShadowDncr01
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Posted - 2011.09.05 04:29:00 -
[101]
Veritas,
Stupid question time, yah! I see that sending out the data to the interested parties takes a measuable amount time inside the fucntion "SingleCastBy ClientID". Have ya'll considered using PGM? Clients could subscribe to a multicast group which would might help offload some work from the server.
Also, any thoughts on using either numa or a fpga for the physics simulation code? Is there a reason why that can't be done in parallel with "UpdateClients" ?
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