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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 19:38:00 -
[1]
Hybrids are a joke, you know it, I know it, your grandmother probably knows it, yet CCP refuses to fix these weapons.
Hybrids are supposed to be the most damaging weapons in the game, yet a Dual 425mm Scout Artillery out ranges, and out damages an Ion Blaster, why?
Ion Blasters are supposed to be short range and very powerful, but the truth is they have almost zero range and don't even do as much damage as a good projectile turret. They use cap, their ammo is arguably weaker, so I ask you, WHY use hybrids?
Railguns have nice optimal range, but their accuracy sucks at long range, and they rarely hit past 30km ever. Their CPU/Power usage is insanely high, why? I see no reason why a railguns cpu/power usage should be more than a projectile/laser turret. They simply do not have the damage or accuracy to justify it.
Magnetic Field Stablizers.. not only are they not even in the game, aside from the basic variant I believe, but they use ALMOST DOUBLE THE CPU than heatsinks and gyrostablizers..... WHY? What is so much better about hybrids to justify this? Considering hybrids are the weakest turrets, this is a simply retarded.
I agree the range penalty on ammo needed to be fixed, obviously there's no reason to not use anti-matter ammo with hybrids, or EMP with projectiles, or multi-spec with lasers. However I think -60% for anti-matter is too much, especially with ions, I mean EMP ammo is freaking -35% and is BETTER. WHY? If ammo penalties are not changed railguns will lose their range advantage, the ONLY slight advantage they have.
Is the Caldari range bonus on hybrids even working? Is the Gallante damage bonus on hybrids even working? I'm fairly certain the Caldari bonus isn't..
Please fix hybrids CCP. Hybrids have been broken since release and it's just ridiculous you have not fixed them yet. This is my last post regarding this, as I don't want to further beat thd dead horse about it. Hopefully you will see that hybrids are indeed insanely weak compared to projectiles and lasers and should be improved.
I really don't see anything in the next patch that will FIX hybrids, they will just get WORSE with the current range modifiers. You're even reducing the ammo capacity on hybrids (i don't mean the broken turrets that hold 1000 rounds)? Give me a break.
Bleh. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Discorporation
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Posted - 2003.07.02 19:42:00 -
[2]
Read the patch forum, please :)
[Heterocephalus glaber]
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 19:46:00 -
[3]
I did. They're lowering hybrid capacity usage a little, improving their tracking a little.. anti-matter range penalty is still very high at -50%. Uh, what else? How does this bring hybrids in-line with other turrets? They still are weak.
How about improving ion range and damage? The current patch doesn't really fix anything regarding hybrids. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
SOHAIL
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Posted - 2003.07.02 19:49:00 -
[4]
I have to aggree wiht Jim, i got gunnery lvl 5 and medium hybrid turret lvl 5 and about 11 gunnery cat skill. At when around 3km my Ion Blaster do only around 30 to 60 damage, harldy i see the message say ure done 100 damage (50 is average. On the other hand i got Medium Energy Turet and i use heavy laser and it do around 110 damage most of the times (80 average). CCP whould take action about this matter cuz we spend lots of res for our ammos. Amy
"We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about" |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:09:00 -
[5]
oh calm down, the lot of you. go and try all the weapon configs on chaos if you're so certain. They are doing a *lot* of tweaking right this second.
Also, your skills will be worth more, in comparison to other players. Before the patch, I could probably beat your gunnery advantage with 3 or 4 boosters and some surg strike. Now, your lvl5 goodness will be a marked improvement over my lvl3, even with boosters.
All that aside, I've been testing my guns on chaos, and it's actually more fun now than on TQ. There is a challenge, and a variety of well balanced options for your loadout.
actually having to concentrate when looting npc cruisers makes a world of difference.
And it beats just slapping on as many 250 rails as you can, filling them all with AM and undocking.
so relax, it'll be interesting. And a *lot* of people are gonna lose their ships :) .
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:17:00 -
[6]
I am glad they are fixing the insane damage modifiers and tracking, and adding range penalty on ammo. Hybrids are still by far the weakest turrets in the game. Ions, in particular, are useless, due to having no range what so ever. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
smokeruk
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:24:00 -
[7]
hmm lose ships ...yea right it takes long enough to aquire another as it is what about missiles as i understand npc missiles have been upped and owe weapons ranges have been toned down thus meaning we now after put up with nearly twice the amount of missiles coming at us thats twice the amount of cap usuage maybe on shield booster
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:31:00 -
[8]
Why are more people going to lose ships?
All I can see this patch doing is making it harder to kill ships.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Psylocke
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:36:00 -
[9]
I use 3 anode ions, medium, in my thorax. Each shot does an average of 100-130, and at times as low as 20 and as high as 300. No devices and L3 in all gunnery skills, i missed surgical strike so i dont have it. The cap drain is unnoticable and i dont need the range so i use the M AM. Heavy drones have more than enough range to make up the loss, and beat any turrets range out there.
I assume after the patch, i wont even notice the change, as a matter of fact, i may beable to strap on another anode with the Thorax mW increase. If by some miricale something gets past my 8 drones, the ions will eat whatever is left. You dont like hybrids, train drones, hop in a thorax and relax. Hell half the time i dont even use my guns, just strap on 5 CU's and let the drones work, thats what thier there for.
Anyway, maybe after the patch i'll find some M AM cheaper than i can make it.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:40:00 -
[10]
Heh, anyone can kill npc pirates easily with any weapon in the game, be it drones or missles or hybrids.. but in PVP, hybrids lose.
Projectiles and lasers are simply superior to hybrids, better range, better damage, lower requirements.. that IS THE POINT OF MY POST.
I don't care about killing NPCs, they will always be easy. I want balanced *PVP*. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
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Livak
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:44:00 -
[11]
Jim, I really suggest you read the patch board. In the tests the moa with 250's won in PVP combat. Everyone just has to get over their fixation on antimatter ammo.
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Ozium
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:47:00 -
[12]
Those Drones are killer, untill I turn on my smart bomb and you lose them in 3 seconds.
I have equal skill in Hybrid and Projectile. There is no reason to use Hybrid over Projectile. In a perfect world where I warp in 30k+ from you everytime, sure my 250 gauss proto's are good, but the fact is, that situation is very rare. Generally you jump in well within range of someone with projectiles.
Right now with surgical strike 3 and 4 gyro's on my Moa my 3 425's damage mod is 10.2x
I hit for 200 average, and just this afternoon had a perfect wrecking hit for 657.
However, with the nerfs coming to surgical strike, you really are not going to need to or want to use 4 gyros on a Moa. This will bring Hybrid a little more in line with Projectiles because now they don't need to mount 4 mag stabs to keep up with the cool kids.
The simple fact is, Projectiles are a step above the other two guns.
Edited by: Ozium on 02/07/2003 20:53:47
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:52:00 -
[13]
I've read the patch notes, and I still dont see how ion blasters are now viable weapons.. What was the Moa up against? What kind of ship? What kind of weapons? Did he kite the guy or something?
250mm Prototype Gauss have always been "okay" but limited because of the higher cpu/powergrid usage and the lack of high quality MFS (and their higher cpu/pg usage..). I have no fetish with AM ammo, but it's not as good as EMP ammo and has a bigger range penalty... WHY?
Ions are USELESS. Their damage modifier isn't high enough to justify the fact they have no range what so ever. Their range needs improved, and their damage increased a bit. They are supposed to be the most damaging turrets, they use cap, yet a 425mm Dual Scout Art totally destroys it in damage and range.. again i ask, why??? ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Psylocke
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Posted - 2003.07.02 20:55:00 -
[14]
"Balance" is how you make it. Specialize in one thing and your weakness will beat you. Train all med turret skills. Use Hybrids for close range, proj for long range and Lasers for med range. Add in a mix of missles/drones and you have a nice "balance". Taking some damage still, train the eng skills up, use a shield booster. Hell use two. I do at times, PC's can hit hard. Using too much cap? Shut off one of the guns and let the drones work it some while you let the boosters do thier job. Need to get some distance, hit the AB's and fly away, still allowing plenty of range to let drones keep chipin away.
Hybrides alone were never enough to begin with. You must learn to find the balance yourself, or forever fall victim to specialized weakness.
I do not target anyone with my statement, this is for everyone to read and think on.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:05:00 -
[15]
No offense Psylocke, but you're clueless. You've obviously never come across someone using 3-4 425mm Dual Scouts and a 12x+ damage mod.. who uses no cap on his weapons, out ranges you, out damages you, and has plenty of energy to spare on shield hardeners. If you think your drones can beat that, you're kidding yourself.
I'm glad you like your little carebear NPC pirate killing setup, but any PLAYER with a projectile or even laser setup will own you hard. If you really wanted to kill pirates, use rails they are great NPC killers because of their range. Ions simply make it so you have to in range to get warpjammed or webified, so why use ions? ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Ozium
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:06:00 -
[16]
Psylocke, do you pvp at all? We are not talking about killing NPC pirates. We are talking about the application of weapons in player versus player combat. Right now Projectile is head and shoulders above Hybrid and Energy.
Projectile not only does the most damage, has the best range, it also leaves the most powergrid for other nifty things. Projectile has NO drawbacks right now.
Your Drone theory and missle theory is also questionable. You realize that drones are totally useless in player versus player combat against a well equipped enemy. Lets not forget that they will do next to no damage. Their range is 500 meters which puts them WELL inside smart bomb range. I turn on my smart bomb and those drones go bye bye.
Lastly, Hybrid are supposed to be the LONGEST range weapons, not the shortest.
Railguns are guns which fire magnetically accelerated projectiles at close to the speed of light.
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Singular
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:17:00 -
[17]
lol Psychlok...lmfao..
Im Yo Huckleberreh |
Psylocke
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:32:00 -
[18]
No offense taken, and i've only Pvp'd travelers who happen to cross my path. Thanks for the posts i learn as i go.
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Mandos
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Posted - 2003.07.02 21:57:00 -
[19]
If you check the Patch Review forum, you'll see that the patch planned for tomorrow (Thursday) has a lot of weapon balancing stuff in it.
-- Mandos Polaris Forum Moderator and Bug Hunter EVE Forum rules |
ZazaPaLiz Hacker
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Posted - 2003.07.02 22:03:00 -
[20]
ROFLMFAO.
Any of you n00bs wanna trade in your 250mm gauss prototypes for dual 425mm scouts contact me in game.
Zaza Pa Liz Yes, THE Zaza Pa Liz, from HACKnet |
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.02 22:52:00 -
[21]
Check patch forum updates.
Changes to track rate, grid, ranges, energy reqq - lots and lots.
Hybrids work good in their intended roles now - very good.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 22:58:00 -
[22]
Well I'm glad to see that the railguns insanely stupidly high powergrid usage is getting lowered. I still see little use for ions though.. their range simply isn't enough to be practical. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.02 23:01:00 -
[23]
They annhialte Frigates in close.
Seriously - the railgun wont hit a frigate up close in a month of sundays anymore.
Moa loadout would now be:
3x250 Proto + 1x Anode Neutron Cannon
2xXR launchers
Nice enough Rig
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 23:05:00 -
[24]
That's what I figured, but ion range with the new modifiers is still god awful and not really practical IMO. I used to try to use ions but it was quite painful. =(
In case they do make ions better, where do some decent named ions drop? ^^ ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.02 23:11:00 -
[25]
Anodes and Modals are both good.
Up to 2.5km optimals base... remember these are anti-frigate guns so even with falloff penalties their 3.6-4.2 damage bonuses still hit a frigate very very hard.
Dont consider them a generic close-quarter gun or an anti-cruiser gun - at least I wouldn't.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.02 23:24:00 -
[26]
See that's the problem. Ions should be deadly close quarter weapons, theyre jokes at the moment. They need a 5km optimal, 10km accuracy falloff type range.. not freaking 1.5km or whatever it is right now, its just plain stupid atm. ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.07.02 23:29:00 -
[27]
They are deadly - versus frigates.
they'd be deadly versus a cruiser also - except you'd have to ask the enemy not to move so you can crawl closer.
Which is why they aren't anti-cruiser weapons.
<<<its just plain stupid atm>>>
I would disagree.
It's "stupid" to try to use them in a way they won't work.
If you want to whack something hard at around 5-15km then use AM on a rail gun or mount 4 dual425scouts (which is easily done now) or energy weapons.
You will not find a "perfect weapon" or "Perfect loadout" that will cover your in every conceiveable encounter.
If you do - guarenteed its a bug.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2003.07.03 00:12:00 -
[28]
Just because you found a niche for them doesn't mean they're working as intended. They're supposed to be short range powerful turrets, not zero range mediocre turrets..
I never asked for them to be the perfect weapon, I want them to be what they are supposed to be.
No where does it say that ions are "frigate busters" nor should they be dimished to that role and that role only. They are supposed to be short ranged, and do a lot of damage.. unfortunately CCPs definition of "short range" is not a practical range, and the damage on ions comes well short of "destructive".
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 03/07/2003 00:15:18 ------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Kaleb
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Posted - 2003.07.03 03:28:00 -
[29]
When a Punisher orbits you at 100m and you cant hit it, or , you may want to reconsider whether or not you like Ions. Also when you get webbed by NPC cruisers you may liek them then as well.
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Ushtara Killbob
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Posted - 2007.09.21 04:32:00 -
[30]
yawn
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