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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.08.01 10:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Moghydin And yet again CCP fails in balancing things. From being totally useless pieces of junk they made faction ships into unbeatable pwnmobiles that make T2 virtually obsolete. Is there a chance of them being balanced correctly at some point?
Pirate faction ships are supposed to be better than T2. If they were only as good as T2, then they'd be obselete.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Moghydin
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.08.01 10:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Moghydin And yet again CCP fails in balancing things. From being totally useless pieces of junk they made faction ships into unbeatable pwnmobiles that make T2 virtually obsolete. Is there a chance of them being balanced correctly at some point?
Pirate faction ships are supposed to be better than T2. If they were only as good as T2, then they'd be obselete.
Why are they supposed to be better when it takes much more time to skill up for T2 ships than to pirate ships? It is absurdly evident with T2 bs's vs pirate bs's. In most cases pirate bs will wipe the floor with T2 bs, but it takes significantly lower time to train for the pirate version - racial battleship 5 pre req speaks for itself.
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2011.08.01 11:36:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 01/08/2011 11:36:44
Originally by: Moghydin Why are they supposed to be better when it takes much more time to skill up for T2 ships than to pirate ships? It is absurdly evident with T2 bs's vs pirate bs's. In most cases pirate bs will wipe the floor with T2 bs, but it takes significantly lower time to train for the pirate version - racial battleship 5 pre req speaks for itself.
All faction, deadspace and officer modules also have lower skill requirements than the tech 2 version; it is by design.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.08.01 11:38:00 -
[34]
I think T2 Battleships are bad in combat in general though. I think Pirate Faction Ships should be like the Ashimmu/Gila/Vigilant etc. Not necessarily solo "pwnmobiles", but provide unique concepts (like neuts+90% web, Caldari Shield Tanked Drone Boat etc.) and unique attributes.
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Large Collidable Object
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Posted - 2011.08.01 11:58:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Large Collidable Object on 01/08/2011 12:00:05
Originally by: Moghydin
Why are they supposed to be better when it takes much more time to skill up for T2 ships than to pirate ships? It is absurdly evident with T2 bs's vs pirate bs's. In most cases pirate bs will wipe the floor with T2 bs, but it takes significantly lower time to train for the pirate version - racial battleship 5 pre req speaks for itself.
Actually, if you want to fly them properly, especially pirate BS take longer to skill - you need two racial BS @ V - each has the respective frig and cruiser skills @ IV as a prerequisite and they generally tend to need a wider array of skills as their weapon systems/tanks are often out of line with one of the races needed. Since Marauders are PVE ships, I think the Nightmare is a good example - you need Caldari and Amarr BS at V. If you're pure Caldari until then, you need to train up for large T2 lasers and gunnery support skills+may need additional work on your cap - if you're pure Amarr, you need to train up for an active shield tank.
Now if you go for a Golem as Caldari, you'll hit Marauders V sooner than Amarr BS V because despite of it being a longer skill than racial BS V, it has the sub-BS skills as a prereq. You'll already have decent missile support skills and wont need to train up several millions in gunnery. For an Amarr pilot, it's a little easier - train Caldari BS V and then an active shieldtank - still more effort than getting into a Paladin.
The fact you can sit in a ship doesn't mean you have the necessary skills. I'm not space-poor, but if I take an uninsurable 1 bill Mach (without fitting) into PvP, I won't do so until I have 99% of the skills associated with the ship or any module fitted on it @ V.
Anyway - the BS comparison is kind of bad since Marauders were introduced as pure PvE ships and thus, came pre-nerfed with weak sensor stregth, so they wouldn't be 'abused' as PvP ships. BO have a very special role they fill rather poorly and have drawbacks to compenstae for their ~unique~ abilities.
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The R00k
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Posted - 2011.08.01 12:14:00 -
[36]
TBH not sure i see a validation to this. more to the point the only pirate faction ships better than t2 are the angel ones. And that more to-do with auto cannons being the current win storm.
in fact i would say it's the exact opposite with many being much much worse than t2 or t3 Examples:
Ashimuu is never a better choice than Curse or legion. Phantasm is never better than Zealot or legion. Cruor is never seen. Succubus was nerfed way to hell. And never used over Amarr T2 frigs. Worms are rare. Gila's are not used over ishtars. Vindicators are good but why go over a navy mega or normal mega for a do or die blaster boat. Bhaalgorns are way to expensive for survivability to be really used. Rattlesnakes are once again a weird skill combo so few buy. Nightmare's are mainly PVE ships and tbh I would use a paladin over it. (Strange they are so popular tbh)
So like i said that leaves really just angel ships. And why are they so popular? Because they allow a nano like play-style that allows for solo/small gangs to actually fight and win over the current blob/bubble mechanics.
That is " The R00K with two 00 not oo. to you sir |
Metlec
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Posted - 2011.08.01 12:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Metlec on 01/08/2011 12:23:42 Isn't the fact that they are slightly better than T2 offset by the cost? Cynabal is more expensive than a Vaga, Vigilant is way more expensive than a Deimos, etc.
Also, buying one doesn't automatically make you invincible. You still have to be able to set it up correctly for the combat situation you're going to be in and even then you have to fly it properly.
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Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.08.01 13:47:00 -
[38]
My Machs are fantastic ships, but I wouldn't risk them in PvP because of the shear amount of grinding I'd have to do to get new ones.
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