Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Divinity Marshall
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:24:00 -
[1]
I'm just curious why anyone would have more than their "main" character on an account, because if only one toon can train it seems pointless to me.
|
Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:47:00 -
[2]
You can still train other characters to do useful things like market trade, haul, PI, scan, etc. All of those things are useful to have in an alt you can log off and switch to.
You can also transfer pre-trained characters to your account
|
Divinity Marshall
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:52:00 -
[3]
Buying pre-trained toons for your account would be one usefull purpose, but I don't see stopping training on your main to train say trading skills on an alt, just put the trading skills on your main.
|
Dhaul
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 20:55:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Divinity Marshall Buying pre-trained toons for your account would be one usefull purpose, but I don't see stopping training on your main to train say trading skills on an alt, just put the trading skills on your main.
What if your main lives in deep 0.0, a wormhole, or has sec status too low to go to any trade hubs?
|
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 21:01:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Divinity Marshall I'm just curious why anyone would have more than their "main" character on an account, because if only one toon can train it seems pointless to me.
I have all the skills I need on my main. All I can do now is make my clone more expensive without really increasing the utility of my character. So I might as well train an alt.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Aldan Romar
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 21:17:00 -
[6]
I like to leave some of the more 'menial' tasks to my alts.
Say research and production without being tied to a specific station with my main.
And a roleplaying perspective opens a whole other door to handling same-account-alts - but that's not everyone's cup of tea.
|
Flair Tachyon
Amarr Hollywood Minerals Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 22:47:00 -
[7]
The alt chars do not need to share your corporate/alliance status.
So having that low skilled alt fly a badger around while your main is at war may be interesting.
The alt char can also be in different places than the main. For excample to always have a char in a certain system to light a cynofield, to scout or watch/modify contacts/market orders.
All these activitys usually do not require high skillpoints an sitting around always at the ready in places at the end of EVE is impractical for your main character.
|
Divinity Marshall
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 22:56:00 -
[8]
OK. I guess there are some uses for a low skill alt toon, but I still think CCP should let each toon train at the same time.
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:26:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Divinity Marshall but I still think CCP should let each toon train at the same time.
Why?
The slots are there to give you options, not to give you two more characters to train. If you want to train another character at the same time, get a second account.
[ Australian players join channel ANZAC ] |
Nimrod Nemesis
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2011.08.01 23:31:00 -
[10]
Two free slots for research/datacore/pi/trade minimal-effort income alts.
And who could forget forum alts?
|
|
Kesshisan
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 04:01:00 -
[11]
I stopped training on my main (Kesshisan) for 2 weeks to train up a trade alt. On a good week I can make a profit of 500,000,000* isk just trading. To this day I still reap the rewards of having that character on my account despite not training anything anymore.
*Results not typical. Your experience may vary. Contact a doctor if irritation occurs.
|
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 04:42:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 02/08/2011 04:46:08
Another possibility:
I think that for the time it takes training Advanced Laboratory Operation 5 and/or Advanced Mass Production 5 for one extra research or manufacturing slot, you can train an alt to do Advanced Laboratory Operation 4 and/or Advanced Mass Production 4 for another 10 slots.
I have alts for: * PI * manufacturing and research * no-skill market checking alts in major trade hubs (also handy for grabbing deals on contracts) * cynos
|
DeBingJos
Minmatar Goat Holdings
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 08:44:00 -
[13]
I keep one of my untrained alts in jita. He purchases stuff and then contracts it to my main.
My main then makes courier contracts to transport the stuff to him. This way I don't have to travel 30+ jumps to jita and back just to purchase some stuff.
|
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 12:44:00 -
[14]
Mostly ... what you want to think about when creating an alternate character on the same account is - do I need someone to be somewhere other than my other characters for whatever reason? If the answer is yes - then it's worth creating a alternate character on the same account.
If you need someone to train at the same time and possibly fly with one of your other characters - then you need a second account.
Now - initially - you pretty much want to concentrate most of your training time on one character. This is the character people tend to refer to as the "Main" character. The reason for that - is that (usually) you really need to spend some time on a character to be able to get them to the point where they are really useful.
Trade is something of an exception - in that a Trade Alt is extremely easy to create. There just aren't that many skills they need. Now - that isn't to say that you can't train that trade alt more and have it be more useful. It's just that for it's primary activity - trading - it doesn't need that much in the way of skills.
Another factor - also mentioned above - is that once you've got one character trained up to a certain point ... while you can still increase their usefulness some ... you don't really have to. You've got them trained up to the point where they are really good at their job, so that further training is only going to be marginally effective in increasing their usefulness.
At this point - you can train another character to do something entirely different - and do it in a different location - than the previous character.
I have multiple accounts, most with multiple characters. I don't have a "Main" character - they're all alts. There might be one of them that I use more than the others for a period of time - but then - I'll go do something else and may not come back to that character for months. Sometimes - they are used because they know how to do some particular task. Other times they are used because I'm bored with doing one thing, in one place - and want to do something else in another.
Now - as to being able to train them all at the same time ...
No other MMO that I'm aware of lets you do that. Mostly - since most other games require you to actually play to advance your character - that takes care of that. None of them let you login the same account twice and use the characters on one account all at the same time.
The other thing is - why would the game company let you do that if they could get you to spend money for another account?
. Orbiting vs. Kiting Career Agents
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 20:19:00 -
[15]
Whats the point in 5-10 character slots in any other MMO when you can only play one at a time? Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 20:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Magnus Orin Whats the point in 5-10 character slots in any other MMO when you can only play one at a time?
Not many Warriors can cast Fireballs. Also, those games are not designed around skills being learned over a period of time and nor does it take 5+ years to max out a single character in terms of skills and levels.
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 20:30:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Magnus Orin Whats the point in 5-10 character slots in any other MMO when you can only play one at a time?
Not many Warriors can cast Fireballs. Also, those games are not designed around skills being learned over a period of time and nor does it take 5+ years to max out a single character in terms of skills and levels.
Yet still, no matter how hard you try, you can only train one of them at a time.
Also, if it takes 5+ years to max a character, all the more reason to specialize and use alts right? Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 20:55:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Magnus Orin Whats the point in 5-10 character slots in any other MMO when you can only play one at a time?
Not many Warriors can cast Fireballs. Also, those games are not designed around skills being learned over a period of time and nor does it take 5+ years to max out a single character in terms of skills and levels.
Yet still, no matter how hard you try, you can only train one of them at a time.
Also, if it takes 5+ years to max a character, all the more reason to specialize and use alts right?
No, because you lose time to train on your main.
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.02 21:07:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Magnus Orin Whats the point in 5-10 character slots in any other MMO when you can only play one at a time?
Not many Warriors can cast Fireballs. Also, those games are not designed around skills being learned over a period of time and nor does it take 5+ years to max out a single character in terms of skills and levels.
Yet still, no matter how hard you try, you can only train one of them at a time.
Also, if it takes 5+ years to max a character, all the more reason to specialize and use alts right?
No, because you lose time to train on your main.
Same as every other MMO out there? Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 13:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Magnus Orin Same as every other MMO out there?
Again, the difference is the time required to get to the cap. There is a huge difference between a few weeks and several years. One encourages multiple characters on a single account and one encourages focus on a single character on a single account.
Are you being purposefully thick or are you trolling, because this is about as basic a concept as there is?
|
|
Lady Go Diveher
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:06:00 -
[21]
It's worth mentioning, that you can have the alts remapped to an entirely different attribute set. This can very realistically save you training time as it would have taken longer to train the same skills on the 'main.'
Think POS gunner / T2 large warp bubble alt. Also? I just tricked you into reading my signature. |
foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Kraven Stark Are you being purposefully thick or are you trolling, because this is about as basic a concept as there is?
You should ask yourself the same.
In other games the max you are talking about is only a small fraction of all the things you can do. So it is not really the max.
"Max level" in other games is the equivalent in EvE of being the max frigate pilot for a single race, which takes less than a year. Then you have the choice of either starting a new character to max, or maxing the current one in another "class". That is something you cannot do in other games.
tl;dr; A short poem: EvE system is superior, other games suck, if you do not like it, i do not give a... _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:41:00 -
[23]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Kraven Stark Are you being purposefully thick or are you trolling, because this is about as basic a concept as there is?
You should ask yourself the same.
In other games the max you are talking about is only a small fraction of all the things you can do. So it is not really the max.
"Max level" in other games is the equivalent in EvE of being the max frigate pilot for a single race, which takes less than a year. Then you have the choice of either starting a new character to max, or maxing the current one in another "class". That is something you cannot do in other games.
tl;dr; A short poem: EvE system is superior, other games suck, if you do not like it, i do not give a...
Rarely is the max a small fraction of what you can do with that particular character. And in the cases that it is, you are still looking at a matter of just a few weeks to check out a different build, but considering most games have a way of rebuilding your character from your current position, this time sink is rarely necessary.
EvE doesn't have a superior system. It just has a different system that was created smartly that matches the size of the game space. Not sure why EvE vs. the world came up as that was not an argument that I thought we were having.
All I was doing is showing you that trying to compare EvE system to traditional MMOs is pretty much impossible to do when you start looking at the mechanics beyond the whole.
|
foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kraven Stark All I was doing is showing you that trying to compare EvE system to traditional MMOs is pretty much impossible to do when you start looking at the mechanics beyond the whole.
So what seems to be the issue? If you are not comparing systems, then there is no problem. Simply accept the system as it is. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 14:59:00 -
[25]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Kraven Stark All I was doing is showing you that trying to compare EvE system to traditional MMOs is pretty much impossible to do when you start looking at the mechanics beyond the whole.
So what seems to be the issue? If you are not comparing systems, then there is no problem. Simply accept the system as it is.
I wasn't comparing the systems. Magnus Orin was.
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 16:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Kraven Stark Are you being purposefully thick or are you trolling, because this is about as basic a concept as there is?
You should ask yourself the same.
In other games the max you are talking about is only a small fraction of all the things you can do. So it is not really the max.
"Max level" in other games is the equivalent in EvE of being the max frigate pilot for a single race, which takes less than a year. Then you have the choice of either starting a new character to max, or maxing the current one in another "class". That is something you cannot do in other games.
tl;dr; A short poem: EvE system is superior, other games suck, if you do not like it, i do not give a...
All I was doing is showing you that trying to compare EvE system to traditional MMOs is pretty much impossible to do when you start looking at the mechanics beyond the whole.
No. It really is quite simple.
When I play character A in generic fantasy MMO X, character B idles and does not increase in level or skills.
In Eve, when character A is training, character B idles and does not increase in level or skills.
In both games, if I want to raise the skills and level of character B, I need to stop raising the skills and levels of character A. Its pretty ****ing simple really.
The amount of time it takes to train a skills is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:02:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Magnus Orin
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: Kraven Stark Are you being purposefully thick or are you trolling, because this is about as basic a concept as there is?
You should ask yourself the same.
In other games the max you are talking about is only a small fraction of all the things you can do. So it is not really the max.
"Max level" in other games is the equivalent in EvE of being the max frigate pilot for a single race, which takes less than a year. Then you have the choice of either starting a new character to max, or maxing the current one in another "class". That is something you cannot do in other games.
tl;dr; A short poem: EvE system is superior, other games suck, if you do not like it, i do not give a...
All I was doing is showing you that trying to compare EvE system to traditional MMOs is pretty much impossible to do when you start looking at the mechanics beyond the whole.
No. It really is quite simple.
When I play character A in generic fantasy MMO X, character B idles and does not increase in level or skills.
In Eve, when character A is training, character B idles and does not increase in level or skills.
In both games, if I want to raise the skills and level of character B, I need to stop raising the skills and levels of character A. Its pretty ****ing simple really.
The amount of time it takes to train a skills is completely irrelevant to this discussion.
I dont see how you can say massive differences in time it takes to get a character to their respective caps is not relevant.
In your typical MMO, your individual characters are like little, separate projects that do not require any significant amount of time to work with. In EvE, your main is a huge project that takes literal months to become somewhat efficient, and depending on your ship focus, another 4 months to a year or more to become proficient in.
If x5 skills only took several hours, I would be very inclined to agree with you, but the differences in time are extremely significant because they are so different.
EvE is a unique game and to genuinely compare parts of it to other games as a way of justifying a take on a question is damn near impossible to do.
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:18:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kraven Stark
I dont see how you can say massive differences in time it takes to get a character to their respective caps is not relevant.
In your typical MMO, your individual characters are like little, separate projects that do not require any significant amount of time to work with. In EvE, your main is a huge project that takes literal months to become somewhat efficient, and depending on your ship focus, another 4 months to a year or more to become proficient in.
If x5 skills only took several hours, I would be very inclined to agree with you, but the differences in time are extremely significant because they are so different.
EvE is a unique game and to genuinely compare parts of it to other games as a way of justifying a take on a question is damn near impossible to do.
Alts are little projects in Eve as well. On my main's account I have 2 other characters for whom I have paused Magnus' training for from time to time.
Long term investment in higher level characters is a staple of almost all MMOs. A tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a muti-year investment, the same as a Supercap pilot is in Eve. You cannot say that a tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a 'separate little project' can you?
I'm not saying Eve's training system is not unique, it is. I am saying that it does fit perfectly into the industry standard of training one character at a time though, despite its unique way of managing it. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Kraven Stark
Caldari Atavism Industries
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:42:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Magnus Orin Long term investment in higher level characters is a staple of almost all MMOs. A tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a muti-year investment, the same as a Supercap pilot is in Eve. You cannot say that a tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a 'separate little project' can you?
I can, actually. At least compared to the times it takes to get to the top in EvE.
Collider, my MT warrior I had for the WoTLK release was the number 2 Warrior on my server (Bleeding Hollow). That only took about 3 months of calendar time, actual time spent in game was obviously a lot less, and even more so as I was working on getting two other characters to 80 so they could raid during the weekend free for alls.
If you look at any sort of character development in WoW as being a multi-year project, you are either only playing once a week for an hour or two.
In other MMOs, the decision to create and work on an alt is a simple choice to make as you know you are not hurting your main in any way by working on said alt for a few hours at a time. But in EvE, a few hours doesn't even dent a skill you might be training.
If you have a lvl 85 Warrior and decide to want to get a lvl 85 Paladin, you will meet that goal in just a few weeks or less.
In EvE, if you are flying a well fitted CNR and decide you want to fly a well fitted Dominix, you are looking at several months. Especially if you decide to do this with an alt.
I agree that EvE does fit in with the training of 1 character at a time, but I think the initial reasoning was because each character can essentially do everything and they wanted people to keep a steady focus on one character.
Now it seems like its done this way as a way to encourage people to pay for alt accounts meaning that the motivation for adhering to an industry standard is completely different.
My possibly obvious stance here is that I am on the side that would like to see us have the ability to train at least a single alt alongside our mains because of this time factor. Even if that means the training time for the alt is automatically x2, x3 or whatever. Though this will never happen for the simple reason it would take money out of the system due to fewer Plexs being sold, not because CCP wants to stick to a trend set in the MMO community.
|
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.08.03 17:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 03/08/2011 17:51:32
Originally by: Kraven Stark
Originally by: Magnus Orin Long term investment in higher level characters is a staple of almost all MMOs. A tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a muti-year investment, the same as a Supercap pilot is in Eve. You cannot say that a tricked out max level, full purple, item level eleventy billion gearscore over 9000 WoW raider character is a 'separate little project' can you?
If you look at any sort of character development in WoW as being a multi-year project, you are either only playing once a week for an hour or two.
It is completely subjective. Eve's realtime skill system might mean that a player can possibly trick out an elite pvp character much faster than one could possibly do so in WoW or other generic fantasy MMO, if they could only log on once or twice per week for an hour or two at a time. Precisely why time investment cannot possibly be used as an argument to have multiple characters train at the same time.
Originally by: Kraven Stark
In other MMOs, the decision to create and work on an alt is a simple choice to make as you know you are not hurting your main in any way by working on said alt for a few hours at a time. But in EvE, a few hours doesn't even dent a skill you might be training.
Oh come on, I can easily set up a 10 hour character and use it to gank, or pvp with, and I have on many occasions. This is the same as spending a few hours on an alt in WoW, and likely even less than the time investment needed to create a perfect 'twink' level 19 pvp character in WoW. 10 hours does not hurt my main's training at all.
There is no reason at all to allow training on multiple characters in Eve, unless you want to completely kill the character selling market.
Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |