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Damaa
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:06:00 -
[1]
Controlling range seems the most important aspect for any basic PvP setup. And you do that by having fast and agile ships. Also, Minmatar seems the most capable ships to GTFO and disengage when necessary, thanks to their speed and agility.
Minmatar agility/speed and decent DPS that makes them king of PvP? I wonder if it worth training any other races/ships for PvP?
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Lady Spank
Amarr In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:12:00 -
[2]
Shhh, don't tell everyone or it will spread. ~~~
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Jude Lloyd
Heretic Army B A N E
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:13:00 -
[3]
Minmatar has ships for PVP?
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:40:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Damaa ..I wonder if it worth training any other races/ships for PvP?
At the moment, no. They pretty much have all bases covered and while you can pew with other races it is usually only after accepting a drawback that is not applicable to matari.
The capitals still kind of suck though, so I bet CCP considers them perfectly balanced
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Damaa
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:41:00 -
[5]
I know I am stating the obvious here. Thanks for the sarcasm :)
What I wanted to say is what the developers were thinking? Now we mostly see Minmatar ships (and some Amarr). what is the point of having hundreds of ship types and millions of skills if they are mostly useless, and you only need to train one race.
It is kinda boring honestly. You see Vaga after Vaga everywhere :)
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Lady Spank
Amarr In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:51:00 -
[6]
To answer in a slightly more helpful manner. Yes Minmatar are 'popular' (understatement) for those reasons.
Having said that, I fly a lot of Gallente and love them to bits. I fly all races but mostly Gallente stuff and when fit right I have a perfect advantage over certain Minmatar fits.
Minmatar are the most versatile and have the most GTFO ability but there are ships from all races that are perfectly viable. Look at how much use the Drake gets for example. It's one of the most commonly used ships in the game. ~~~
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stockin
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Posted - 2011.08.02 10:44:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Damaa I know I am stating the obvious here. Thanks for the sarcasm :)
What I wanted to say is what the developers were thinking? Now we mostly see Minmatar ships (and some Amarr). what is the point of having hundreds of ship types and millions of skills if they are mostly useless, and you only need to train one race.
It is kinda boring honestly. You see Vaga after Vaga everywhere :)
Better than seeing drake after drake?
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.02 10:46:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Othran on 02/08/2011 10:47:48 Minmatar were crap for most of Eve's history. Since Dominion (and the TE2 buff) they're not. Give it time and some other race will be FoTM - like Amarr were for many years. Up until comparatively recently Minnie BSs were still considered garbage compared to other races but the artillery tweaks mean its nice for high lag situations.
Oh and as far as other ships go - Curse, Arazu, Falcon, Guardian spring instantly to mind. I'm sure there's a lot more than that which are viable.
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pussnheels
Amarr Vintage heavy industries
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Posted - 2011.08.02 10:59:00 -
[9]
they good pvp ships indeed but not invincible, they have weak spots believe me
As mentioned before , some ships names most matar pilot fear , curse, falcon , hookbill and several more ---------------------------------------------- God knows everything but a true amarrian knows everything even better |
Noisrevbus
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Posted - 2011.08.02 12:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 02/08/2011 12:27:52
Originally by: Othran
Minmatar were crap for most of Eve's history. Since Dominion (and the TE2 buff) they're not.
Minmatar was perfectly viable for years before Dominion. Among the strongest contenders during the nano-era, among the strongest contenders in the early post-nano era (kite, LR hac) etc. The only thing they didn't have prior to recent day buffs was the strongest fleet-BS (yet, perfectly viable BS when it came to RRBS or smaller scale engagements with pre-change nano-Phoons and Pests). Now they contend for the top spots among fleet-BS as well.
They've not been "crap" for the past 5 years.
Welcome to EVE.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.02 12:43:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Noisrevbus LR hac
Uhuh and that's why we see the Muninn everywhere mmm?
Thanks for the welcome. I started in May 2003 so you're a teeny bit late but never mind.
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Noisrevbus
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Posted - 2011.08.02 12:46:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Noisrevbus on 02/08/2011 12:48:46
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Noisrevbus LR hac
Uhuh and that's why we see the Muninn everywhere mmm?
You did when people still used LR- or SHAC on a regular basis. Considering that they are better today, if anyone would revisit the concept, i'm sure they'd be even more popular.
I did say "early post-nano era" however.
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Morium Blue
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2011.08.02 15:41:00 -
[13]
It depends whether you mean solo or fleet. Doubtless Minnie ships are doing well atm - Lokis have long been a mainstay (even before projectile buff) and the Hurricane is a pretty awesome battlecruiser.
But there's nothing really unbalanced about them and I'll still take Abaddons, Navpocs, Navgeddons, etc. over their Minnie brothers.
Sabres are usually our LD of choice - and yet I've recently seen an Eris repped against a hundred man fleet, though partly thanks to Jack being uber. Scimi is great but then there are such things called Guardians, which fit right are still the flagship logistic.
Certainly Minnie stuff has gradually (and especially with projectile buff) started eating into the 'market share' of shield tanking. But if that means slightly less Drakes, it's no bad thing :)
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 15:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Damaa Minmatar agility/speed and decent DPS that makes them king of PvP?
Agility and speed is pretty much it. They also have the advantage of balanced T2 resists, which is nice.
Quote: I wonder if it worth training any other races/ships for PvP?
Yes, pretty much all the combat recons are worth it.
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ColdCutz
Gallente Pwny Nation
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Posted - 2011.08.02 17:57:00 -
[15]
Their weapons are also capless with selectable damage types. All three of them.
The low powergrid requirements of Autocannons and Launchers allow for neuts and buffer tanks to more easily fit, further reducing the vulnerability to cap warfare.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:00:00 -
[16]
I fly Minnie ships a lot. And I like the slot layout on most of them. BUT....when you fit them for nano you usually are giving up some tank. If you get caught proper, your probly going to die. And ifyou make it out to range, then you rarely see yourself as "Top Damage" dealer. In that respect, I think they are pretty balanced.
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:48:00 -
[17]
Originally by: RavenPaine I fly Minnie ships a lot. And I like the slot layout on most of them. BUT....when you fit them for nano you usually are giving up some tank.
If you're talking about the loss of structure from the nano itself, I don't think that's particularly relevant. I'm sure there are some narrow escapes/deaths but if you're flying nano, you should be bailing long before the penalty becomes an actual concern.
Quote: If you get caught proper, your probly going to die. And ifyou make it out to range, then you rarely see yourself as "Top Damage" dealer.
In that respect, I think they are pretty balanced.
Yeah, Caldari and Amarr have far better damage projection.
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Mutnin
Amarr Mutineers
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Posted - 2011.08.02 19:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Jude Lloyd Minmatar has ships for PVP?
This is also news to me. WTF have I been flying Drakes for.. I thought Caldari was the only PVP race...
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Cupdeez
Out of Order
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:56:00 -
[19]
Min ships are fun for solo / fast moving gangs because you can run...
a lot people in this game like to have the option to run so they fly Min... More people fly cald because a ****** could do it... The big players fly Gal or Amar because the bigger the ship for these races the better it is.
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.03 03:55:00 -
[20]
I thought caldari were the best at gtfo. Falcon alt ftw! <3 |
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.08.03 08:48:00 -
[21]
Don't know what op is talking about, I fly all races and I definitely don't always pick Minmatar for the job. --- Drykor - AHARM |
Lady Go Diveher
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Posted - 2011.08.03 13:35:00 -
[22]
Minnie ships are great at hit and run PVP, for getting in, dealing damage, and having that GTFO ticket which annoys so many.
However, tackle them properly, and they become a very sub-par brawler, with typically light EHP that can be further nullified by neuts.
They're pretty balanced in actual effectiveness, though definitely one of the more fun ways to fly ships in PVP. Also? I just tricked you into reading my signature. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
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Posted - 2011.08.03 16:16:00 -
[23]
Yeah - they have quite a few benefits:
- Capless guns with selectable damage types, awesome falloff, great tracking, lowest fitting requirements, awesome dps (ACs) or alpha (arties) - Fastest, most maneuverable, most fexible ships with the lowest signature radius
Their Caps are not especially overpowered and the Hel flat out sucks, but that's about it.
Imho, CCP largely exaggarated when buffing projectiles along with changing TEs. They used to have worse dps, but that was the the one drawback bringing them in line with the other races - now they're flat out overpowered.
I fly Minmatar perfectly fine, but it would be nice if I found a reason to fly anything else except for some niche roles...
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Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
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Posted - 2011.08.03 17:17:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Roosterton on 03/08/2011 17:19:36 Meh, people just think Minmatar is OP if they fly in large idiot drake fleets with no tackle. Put a web or two, or a short scram, on that Vaga and it will melt very, very horribly.
Basically, Minmatar boils down to this: You are fast. You have switchable damage types, but most long range setups will be doing exp/kin due to barrage. Capless guns.
That comes at the drawback of needing extreme pilot micromanagement to avoid letting yourself get pinned down and killed, and when you're fighting at 20km+, you'll be doing <=50% of your potential damage. Really, in a small gang I'd much rather be flying with a Drake, or even a Harby, instead of a Hurricane, just because Drakes and Harbies will do almost full DPS while a 'Cane is forced to fight in falloff.
The only situations where Minmatar really excel are, as I said in the beginning of my post, situations where you're outnumbered and fighting people who don't know how to counter Minmatar. But it's definitely worth training other races as well.
Quote: If you're talking about the loss of structure from the nano itself, I don't think that's particularly relevant. I'm sure there are some narrow escapes/deaths but if you're flying nano, you should be bailing long before the penalty becomes an actual concern.
I think he was referring to the general practice of nanofitting, instead of the nanos themselves. Compare the EHP of a nanocane to the EHP of a platecane and see what I mean. -------- Enemy corps raided into disbandment: Three.
Originally by: Tarminic
OH MY GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?! |
Jones Bones
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.08.03 17:42:00 -
[25]
Minnie is great for small gang warfare. However, increase the size of the gang and individual pilot skill means less. It's much easier to spam lazorz or missiles and ignore range.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
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Posted - 2011.08.03 18:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jones Bones Minnie is great for small gang warfare. However, increase the size of the gang and individual pilot skill means less. It's much easier to spam lazorz or missiles and ignore range.
Which is why Goons use alphamaels and the DRF fit arties on their baddons...
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.03 19:50:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Mfume Apocal on 03/08/2011 19:54:36
Originally by: Roosterton I think he was referring to the general practice of nanofitting, instead of the nanos themselves. Compare the EHP of a nanocane to the EHP of a platecane and see what I mean.
That nothing to do with nano; armor-tanking should always give you more buffer than shield tanking, hull bonuses excepted.
Originally by: Large Collidable Object Which is why Goons use alphamaels and the DRF fit arties on their baddons...
He's right in general terms; damage projection is high on the list of desirable traits when you're talking anything past about 15 dudes, especially if you're looking to fight outnumbered.
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Large Collidable Object
morons.
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:14:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mfume Apocal
Originally by: Large Collidable Object Which is why Goons use alphamaels and the DRF fit arties on their baddons...
He's right in general terms; damage projection is high on the list of desirable traits when you're talking anything past about 15 dudes, especially if you're looking to fight outnumbered.
I didn't intend to prove him wrong.
The point I was trying to make was that Minmatar are not just great at small-scale skirmishing and falling behind in larger scale ops, but also great at the latter due to the great damage-projection of arties.
Add to that the highest alpha of all turrets ingame, which is a highly desirable trait in todays logistics-heavy warfare and their other advantages and there you go.
But well - being in BL, you probably know that better than I do (*cough* Muninn *cough* ;))
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Spy 21
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:25:00 -
[29]
I don't always play PVP.
But when I do, I fly Minmatar ships.
Fly thirsty my friend.
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SomeoneStrange
Total Grief
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Posted - 2011.08.03 23:23:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Spy 21 I don't always play PVP.
But when I do, I fly Minmatar ships.
Fly thirsty my friend.
This made the entire thread worth reading.
Total Grief "You mad Bro?" (....local....) "Oh yes, I think he's mad." |
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