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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.13 17:30:00 -
[1]
HI all my current ship which is a buzzard with 2 rigs, a sisters probe launcher, core scanner probes.
SKills are cov ops lvl 4, asometric pinpoint lvl 3, asometric range finding lvl 4, asometrics lvl 4 with base sensor strength of 99.6. And for the LIFE of me i could not get this scanned down past 75%. I tried a tetrahedron, and pyramid, a cross design, trying to get the probes to overlap and have the signature right in the middle as tight as possible and i could not do it. Tried for 30 minutes.
Any tips? From my understanding i almost have perfect skills to scan anything down and i still could not get it past 75. SO my thinking is i'm aligning my probes wrong somehow, but i've never relaly had an issue before ( i also never came accross a 10/10 site). Thank you.
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: BearJews cov ops lvl 4, asometric pinpoint lvl 3, asometric range finding lvl 4, asometrics lvl 4
Originally by: BearJews
i almost have perfect skills to scan anything down
Pick one. --------------------
WTS forums directions and common sense
Google searches cost extra, people! I understand it's difficult for you, though, so I may discount it if you prove mentally deficient |
BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:19:00 -
[3]
almost perfect. For some reason that wasn't in there. WIth a 99,6 sensor strength i'm pretty damn close. Thanks for your input though
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Fustor
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:19:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Fustor on 13/08/2011 18:20:32 I dont know so good english but will try to explain imagine o = 70% signal strenght and [ = edge of probe balloon so [o] = 75% .. then give it some space like this [_o_] = 80% then give a little more space [__o__] = 85% and do that until 100%
CLOSER NOT MEANS BETTER
just put probes little bit closer and closer and closer
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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:24:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Fustor Edited by: Fustor on 13/08/2011 18:20:32 I dont know so good english but will try to explain imagine o = 70% signal strenght and [ = edge of probe balloon so [o] = 75% .. then give it some space like this [_o_] = 80% then give a little more space [__o__] = 85% and do that until 100%
CLOSER NOT MEANS BETTER
just put probes little bit closer and closer and closer
I'm not quite understanding, but i will try. I start off at 32 au with with a single prober, get a .25% hit and then i launch the other 4 in a cross design. The original being in the center. From there i change the range to 16 au with all 5, then from there i went down until i was .25 au and that's where got a 75% hit. From there what should i do? Move them apart, then closer until the % increases?
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Fustor
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:26:00 -
[6]
you can scan any plex using 4 probes :) without that pyramids or what :) point is just to give it some space :)))
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Fustor
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Posted - 2011.08.13 18:31:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Fustor on 13/08/2011 18:32:14 ok lets try again
o = signal strenght = yellow point in space
+ = probe in space
[ = egde of probe radius
so if you got it on 75% like this [_____+____[o]____+____] make it looks like this [_____+___[_o_]___+____]
you know move probes little bit closer to each other and give little bit more space to signal strenght
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.13 19:24:00 -
[8]
I would suggest getting all those probing skills to 5 before you start complaining. 10/10s are some of the hardest things to scan down, and your skills are VERY inadequate to get one.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.08.13 20:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: BearJews almost perfect. For some reason that wasn't in there. WIth a 99,6 sensor strength i'm pretty damn close. Thanks for your input though
I'm getting 117.4 on mine and it's barely adequate to get everything in low sec. 99.6 in 0.0 simply isn't going to find everything.
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Hungry Ghost
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Posted - 2011.08.13 21:37:00 -
[10]
I'm getting 101.6 with my skills, expanded probe launcher(not sisters), core scanner probes(also not sisters). Its enough to scan 10/10. I know it from experience. Sometimes i cannot be bothered to obtain sisters probes and scan with basic core scanner probes. It takes some repositions on final iteration, but i'm still able to resolve hardest signatures like 10/10 and xxx fleet staging point to 100%.
Current scan mechanics revards more probes - i always scan with 5 and do not need to add any more, but you can try adding probes if you're having troubles.
Previously you would get a perfect scan result with 4 probes arranged in tethrahedron around the signature - its no longer the case, at least its my understanding.
Also keep in mind, what, for best results, you still need to arrange probes in such a way, that the angle probe-signature-another probe need to be as wide as possibe for all pairings of probes. One of consequences - never arrange all probes in one plane if you're not getting enough signal strength.
What it boils down to - with your skills you should be able to scan 10/10. You are just having troubles positioning probes. Experiment.
Having said that - still worth it imho to train some more. If you are not fighting with this char you can also invest in pph implants. You'll lose covops and pod pretty rarely i guess.
To reiterate. More probes. Probes not all in one plane. Probes as close as possible to signature.
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Because Of Door
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Posted - 2011.08.14 01:04:00 -
[11]
Skills-wise, they aren't good enough for null. Train some more.
I've always used 6 probes myself, I have all skills at 5 except pinpointing which is at 4, and do it in a Loki with the Locus subsystem, no grav rig. I also have the PP 3% implants and I get a probe strength of 110 (if I stick a grav rig on I get 121). The 6 probes are arranged 4 in a square and the other above and below the center-point. This is more habit than anything, actually overkill, but I get the hits down to 100% in a decent amount of time.
As another guy has said, play with your probe placement, sometimes just dropping another probe bang on the center can work.
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Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2011.08.14 07:53:00 -
[12]
Skills- Train them all to 5, it takes a long time to get them there, but if you are serious about exploration it is time well spent.
In losec and nulsec you need to scan as quickly as possible because company is always just around the corner.
You should be able to get to 100% with all skills trained to 5, if you have Sisters gear and one grav rig- even in a ship with no bonuses and no implants. Probe placement is something that will come with lots of practice, it is the real "art" of exploration.
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Gloria Mill
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Posted - 2011.08.14 11:27:00 -
[13]
I was sitting at 10/10 acceralation gate cloaked and my alliance member scanned it down with an incursus.
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Kyr Evotorin
Psycho Tech Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.14 15:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Kyr Evotorin on 14/08/2011 15:36:10 I think it's funny because people say your skills aren't good enough.
I've managed to scan down an 8/10 CovOps IV Astrogeo V Astro Range I Astrometrics II Astro Pinpointing null. Core Scanner Probes Expanded Probe launcher not rigged for scanning.
Obviously I've not scanned a 10/10, so I wouldn't know the difficulty plateau, but it seems as though you are giving skills too much credit and not player skill any.
I mean... astrometrics II... lol and astrometric rangefinding I... AND 0 training in pinpointing... and I can scan a 8/10. stating that he needs all skills to V is wayyy too easily considered an overstatement given the information that I am possibly blandly stating.
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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.15 15:14:00 -
[15]
I've been scanning since i started. It is what i chose to do. this 10/10 was different. Like i stated before this was the first time i couldn't scan something down. I've gone and invested some sisters core probe scanners. And scan strength is now at 117 or so (don't remember but it was in the 110 range). I will try repositioning in different planes to see if that works the next time i come across a site that is challenging to scan down.
Thank you for all the replies. I really appreciate it.
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.15 19:14:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Kyr Evotorin Edited by: Kyr Evotorin on 14/08/2011 15:36:10 I think it's funny because people say your skills aren't good enough.
I've managed to scan down an 8/10 CovOps IV Astrogeo V Astro Range I Astrometrics II Astro Pinpointing null. Core Scanner Probes Expanded Probe launcher not rigged for scanning.
Obviously I've not scanned a 10/10, so I wouldn't know the difficulty plateau, but it seems as though you are giving skills too much credit and not player skill any.
I mean... astrometrics II... lol and astrometric rangefinding I... AND 0 training in pinpointing... and I can scan a 8/10. stating that he needs all skills to V is wayyy too easily considered an overstatement given the information that I am possibly blandly stating.
Please, for your sake, since you clearly state you've never tried scanning a 10/10 down, refrain from being condescending to those who have. 8/10 I can scan down with combat probes at 4AU. There's zero comparison.
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Hungry Ghost
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Posted - 2011.08.16 09:45:00 -
[17]
Quote: 8/10 I can scan down with combat probes at 4AU.
No you dont. And actually at the same range core and combat probes got the same strength. Its just you can go to 0.25 with core and cannot do it with combats.
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Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.17 11:28:00 -
[18]
10/10s are significantly more difficult to probe down than most other sites (fleet staging post and some peculiar Radar sites being comparable). That being said, to you guys that are saying to get all 5s...no...just no.
I think my probes are around 65 strength. I have 4s in skills (3 in pinpointing), and have no problem scanning down any site, including 10/10s.
Positioning is extremely important. Symmetry is important believe it or not. Make sure that your probes are centred on the target in all axes, including the vertical (very important). I use 5 probes. The fifth is only used to centre the other 4. Believe it or not, this is something where technique is more important than raw skills.
l2probe.
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The Pillar
Cornerstone Unlimited
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Posted - 2011.08.17 13:34:00 -
[19]
Wormhole crew checking in (you know the ones that spend 6/8 hours a day probing :P )
your skills are "low" but should be more then adequate, I probed down several lvl10's every day for months, long before I had any higher then lvl 3 in probing. needing lvl5 on everything to probe 10/10's is rubbish. (sorry)
Probing strength is affected by a few factors. after the last patch # of probes also.
I personally like the following format. 8 probes
4 1 AU in a cross formation (2 on plane 2 on axis) in middle 4 8 AU in larger cross formation outside the initial cross.
Can reduce outer cross size for hard to get sigs if needed.
The closer your probes are on the target the higher your strength will be, however if you are really struggling and you end up too close you will nerf the strenght as it becomes very hard to spot if you have actually moved one probe over the target ( so you end up not covering one side at all)
Deviation comes into play also the sig might be at 80% and you think it's in location X and move probes to cover that spot. However it is in location Y half a cm to the right. Effect is that you end up weakening your strenght on it as you move probes closer to where you think it is, while not gaining enought strength on it to reduce your deviation to see where it really is.
However how to overcome :
Cover the sig in four - probes smallest size (assuming your using SOE cores - if not then do) two above two on each side on the plane.
Then launch 4 (or however many more you can use) make them 0,5/1 AU and move them round the sig also. Above below and to the sides on the plane ( make a cross section same as the one on the inside ) This will increase your strength on target substantially.
TL/DR if you can use 8 probes use 8 they will give more strenght then 5. even if 4 are 1 AU and 4 are 4 AU. They add incrementally to the strength (After last patch)
I speculate (based on a LOT of observation but not solid data collection) That they reduced the sig strenght in last patch while making it so each probe add strenght to the scan instead.
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Sjugar
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Posted - 2011.08.17 15:56:00 -
[20]
Like the previous poster said:
People who say that you need all skills to V before you can scan down 10/10 sites are very very wrong.
They are probably using a wrong technique and blame lack of skills for their own failure.
Friend of mine had trouble finding the exit in our wormhole, and "it must be lack of skills" because of course he is doing "everything right" and it's not his fault.
Well, turned out I could find the wormhole in an alt with very bad skills in an unbonused ship without any sisters things. Turned out he WAS doing things wrong and so are the people claiming you need V.
There are good reasons to get V in the scanning skills. Scanning down 10/10 is not among them.
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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.17 16:04:00 -
[21]
The only thing i can think of that i was doing wrong was the deviation from the icon. I was trying to get the 5 probes to overlap so that the sphere of the overlapping probes were as tight as possible around the icon. i was using the technique where i would have one centered on the symbol/icon whatever and have the other 4 in a cross pattern overlapping one another in the center.
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Sjugar
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Posted - 2011.08.17 16:49:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Sjugar on 17/08/2011 16:56:26 Edited by: Sjugar on 17/08/2011 16:49:19
Originally by: BearJews I was trying to get the 5 probes to overlap so that the sphere of the overlapping probes were as tight as possible around the icon.
I don't know exactly what you mean here but if it is what I think it is, you're doing it wrong.
If you encounter a hard to scan sig in the final stage and only if your probes are already at the smallest range. (0.25 au) you start bring your probes closer and closer to the result.
I made a picture for 5 probes: my guess is you're doing "A" while you should be going for "B". Mind you the picture is only valid when you didn't get a 100% hit at smallest range. Makes sure that all your probes stay around the result.
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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.17 17:00:00 -
[23]
Yes you are right, i was doing A
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Substantia Nigra
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Posted - 2011.08.18 03:43:00 -
[24]
Well done Sjugar. Your picture certainly did trump a thousand words, and seemed to get to the root of his problem.
My probe placement is usually halfway between your two diagrams ... with the half-way-circle for each probe overlapping on the red/yellow dot.
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.18 12:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Feligast Edited by: Feligast on 13/08/2011 19:31:38 I would suggest getting all those probing skills to 5 before you start complaining. 10/10s are some of the hardest things to scan down, and your skills are VERY inadequate to get one.
edit: Sorry, that came off harsh. but yeah, you need the majority of your probing skills to 5 before you'll lock down a 10/10. I have astro to 5, everything else 4, and with a cheetah double rigged and sisters I still can't resolve a 10/10.
Sorry I have to disagree, All my skills are at 4 using a anathema with rigs and sisters I've always been able to scan any 10/10 down using only 4 probes. But Feli is right that you should get at least astro to 5 if you want to take it seriously. with 5 you can get 8 probes out and scan 2 sigs at once and use the deep space probe. |
BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.18 13:03:00 -
[26]
I will be bringing that to five as well as archeology. Just found out that some sites require at least a tech II analyzer to open up cargo. Once again thanks to the guy for making that photo, i love you long time!! And thank you all for your awesome replies. Except for the first reply, he's a douchebag.
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Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.18 17:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: BearJews I will be bringing that to five as well as archeology. Just found out that some sites require at least a tech II analyzer to open up cargo. Once again thanks to the guy for making that photo, i love you long time!! And thank you all for your awesome replies. Except for the first reply, he's a douchebag.
No sites in regular space require a Tech II analyzer or codebreaker. C4 and up wormhole sites might. I have no experience with those.
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BearJews
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Posted - 2011.08.18 17:15:00 -
[28]
Are you sure? When i tried analyzing the cargo to access it, it told me it was too complex or something like that.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.08.18 20:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: BearJews Are you sure? When i tried analyzing the cargo to access it, it told me it was too complex or something like that.
Just to be sure, it wasn't asking you to use a salvager instead? Mag sites will ask for both somewhat randomly after all.
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Dr Chau
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.18 21:29:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Dr Chau on 18/08/2011 21:32:25 I've never had a site that I was unable to probe down to 100%.
Buzzard with 2x scanning rigs. Sisters Expanded launcher with sister probes Astrometrics 4 Astrometric Rangefinding 3
The above gives me a base sensor strength of 101.7
I align my 7 probes with one in the center and one on each face of a die if you placed it where I was scanning. Maybe not the most efficient configuration but it's worked for me and it's easy to set up.
EDIT: After reading the thread I'd also like to add this: User skill at actually scanning is nearly as important as the sensor strengths of your probes.
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