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Adonis Peverell
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Posted - 2011.08.20 06:43:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime Edited by: Tetragammatron Prime on 20/08/2011 06:20:09 Too many people in null sec use local to completely avoid pvp with the only way around it afk cloaking till they finally can no longer resist the urge for isk and start ratting with neuts in local. That isn't how the game should be.
I don't see a problem with have delayed local along with an ihub upgrade to have immediate local (make it same kind of requirement as jump bridge perhaps). Ratters can have see what is happening in their upgraded systems and still stay pretty safe. Bots will no longer be able to operate in npc/unupgraded space.
That just means that large alliances would grow even more disproportionately because of their monopoly on "bot safe" space. It just encourages profiting from organized crime.
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Mallak Azaria
Three 6 MaFiA KRYSIS.
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Posted - 2011.08.20 07:04:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
================================================== I love and hate 0.0 these days and feel CCP is taking a big **** on my chest every time i see super carriers. ~Tipsy McStagger |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.20 07:14:00 -
[153]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: Lykouleon Zag, I couldn't disagree with you more.
Another Tengu botter, who is surprised ?
I'm pro-removing local. Reading comprehension helps. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO THAT I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:01:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
How do you dscan cloakies?
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Iggy Stooge
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:10:00 -
[155]
ITT people who haven't thought further than 'woohoo, ill be able to sneak up on people and kill them', without thinking what players reaction to this condition will be. All that removing local will accomplish is to make people even more cautious and fight shy. And yes, I love WH space, but if you can't see the difference between sneaking into a WH, and roaming null, well sorry I can't help.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:23:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Iggy Stooge All that removing local will accomplish is to make people even more cautious and fight shy.
No more cautious than they are today, since the same tools used to track them down and attack them will be usable to detect the attackers and stay away from them.
It will just not be automatic and infallible (in either direction) the way it is today. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:35:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
How do you dscan cloakies?
Same way you do now. Only with no local a cov ops can live up to its name.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:40:00 -
[158]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
How do you dscan cloakies?
Same way you do now. Only with no local a cov ops can live up to its name.
Then why would I "Learn to D-scan" when it wouldn't do anything to prevent gankers?
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:45:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Harener Then why would I "Learn to D-scan" when it wouldn't do anything to prevent gankers?
Because even cloakers must find you before they can attack you. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:51:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener Then why would I "Learn to D-scan" when it wouldn't do anything to prevent gankers?
Because even cloakers must find you before they can attack you.
and most things hunting out there don't have a cloak
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:56:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: Mallak Azaria
Originally by: Zagdul Removing local is the most ******ED idea CCP has ever come up with.
I stopped reading here. Learn to D-scan.
How do you dscan cloakies?
He is cheating
Originally by: Michelle Corin Edited by: Michelle Corin on 19/08/2011 20:36:03 Local should be removed from Null Sec. I wish it functioned like WH space.
I wish CCP makes all the high-sec stations destroyable.
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime Edited by: Tetragammatron Prime on 20/08/2011 06:20:09 Too many people in null sec use local to completely avoid pvp with the only way around it afk cloaking till they finally can no longer resist the urge for isk and start ratting with neuts in local. That isn't how the game should be.
I don't see a problem with have delayed local along with an ihub upgrade to have immediate local (make it same kind of requirement as jump bridge perhaps). Ratters can have see what is happening in their upgraded systems and still stay pretty safe. Bots will no longer be able to operate in npc/unupgraded space.
You mean no body should rat in NPC space? I just hide a Arazu 20km at the belt, any battleship will have to take around 15 seconds from arrive to escape. Oh you goods do not rat. that's cool, why not just petition to remove the rats from npc space?
Originally by: Eofina I'd like to see Local removed or delayed from Low-sec also.
Imagine those tears!
Delete everything in jita station will works better
Originally by: Eight Sinn Local I believe was intended for the purposes of communication when CCP put it in, it's being used for Intel now. Given that there are scanning mechanics to find people, with local being gone I would say that you will find more fights than less.
Just remove everything from jita that you will find more players or not
Originally by: Aelius
1st- You want to make Isk in 0.0 (considered a dangerous part of EVE). 2nd- But you don't want it to be dangerous, because you don't want to die.
0.0 is so dangerous that any a spy should be able to place a bomb in the station and ruin it, isn't it?
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 08:58:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener Then why would I "Learn to D-scan" when it wouldn't do anything to prevent gankers?
Because even cloakers must find you before they can attack you.
Alright, that just proved you are a highsec carebear. You don't need probes for anomalies.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:07:00 -
[163]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:07:56
Originally by: Harener Alright, that just proved you are a highsec carebear. You don't need probes for anomalies.
That just proved that you don't know anything about EVE. I suggest you start learning by acquiring some D-scan skills. Oh, and a free lesson along the way: anomalies exist in all sec levels.
And the fact remains: even cloakers must find you before they can attack you. So you'll have to learn to do the same, because the information will not be free for either of you any more. Whether that finding bit will make use of the D-Scan or something new remains to be seen.
àand if that new detection method leaves out cloakers, that's good too. That would mean that they can actually do what they're meant to do. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:11:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:07:56
Originally by: Harener Alright, that just proved you are a highsec carebear. You don't need probes for anomalies.
That just proved that you don't know anything about EVE. I suggest you start learning by acquiring some D-scan skills. Oh, and a free lesson along the way: anomalies exist in all sec levels.
And the fact remains: even cloakers must find you before they can attack you. So you'll have to learn to do the same, because the information will not be free for either of you any more. Whether that finding bit will make use of the D-Scan or something new remains to be seen.
àand if that new detection method leaves out cloakers, that's good too. That would mean that they can actually do what they're meant to do.
The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them. Again, you have no idea how anomalies work. "Dscan"? lol.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:16:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Harener
The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them. Again, you have no idea how anomalies work. "Dscan"? lol.
So you stay aligned then.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:16:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:17:32
Originally by: Harener The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them.
That is not a fact. It's just you assuming things because you don't know how EVE works. Also, stop sucking and secure your area.
And again: why do think they will be able to do that just because local is removed? And if they do, good: undetectable ships become undetectable. Sounds like it would be working as intended.
As for not knowing about anomalies, I quite clearly know more about them than you doà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:20:00 -
[167]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them. Again, you have no idea how anomalies work. "Dscan"? lol.
So you stay aligned then.
They can point instantly after decloaking, and you can't be aligned all the time due to range issues.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them.
That is not a fact. It's just you assuming things because you don't know how EVE works. Also, stop sucking and secure your area.
And again: why do think they will be able to do that just because local is removed? And if they do, good: undetectable ships become undetectable. Sounds like it would be working as intended.
That is a fact. "You clearly don't know how EVE works" is not a retort, learn to argue. You can't secure space from cloakies, especially ones with nullifiers, especially 24/7.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:21:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them. Again, you have no idea how anomalies work. "Dscan"? lol.
So you stay aligned then.
They can point instantly after decloaking, and you can't be aligned all the time due to range issues.
I manage to keep aligned with a maelstrom and nothing can lock me in time, not even frigates.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:23:00 -
[169]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
The fact remains: cloakers can find you without you ever being able to detect them. Again, you have no idea how anomalies work. "Dscan"? lol.
So you stay aligned then.
They can point instantly after decloaking, and you can't be aligned all the time due to range issues.
I manage to keep aligned with a maelstrom and nothing can lock me in time, not even frigates.
When you move 100km+ away, you have to warp back though. In this time a cloaky with eyes on you can easily point you.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:27:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Harener
When you move 100km+ away, you have to warp back though. In this time a cloaky with eyes on you can easily point you.
I never have this issue because I have set up bookmarks to align to. I am always in range and always aligned.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:29:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Harener They can point instantly after decloaking, and you can't be aligned all the time due to range issues.
No they can't, and yes you can. You see, there are things that need to happen before you can actually apply that pointà I leave it as an exercise for the reader to find out what.
Quote: That is a fact.
Nope. If it were, this thread (and many on related topics that came before it) wouldn't exist.
Quote: "You clearly don't know how EVE works" is not a retort
So why did you use it?
Quote: You can't secure space from cloakies
Yes you can. You see, there are things cloakers can't do, and which you can use to your advantage. Again, I leave this as an exercise for the reader. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Gefen Orion
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:31:00 -
[172]
I thought CCP's intention was to promote nullsec as a viable place for players to live in? Removing local is regressive. Nullsec without local is twice dangerous and do you think people will be enticed to live in this space more so than now?
70% or 80% of eve's population is in highsec...making it more difficult to live in nullsec will push the people living here back to carebear kingdom...
With the current game mechanics...people in nullsec and lowsec are enjoying pvp as it is. why mess with this set up?
why not address more important issues like gallente hybrid weapons, drone mods, ewar adjustments, mining boost, ship skins (for the love of everything that is holy...pls remodel those ugly ships)...
leave nullsec as it is...
or
try to make nullsec more enticing for highsec peepz...
the problem in nullsec is not about the game mechanics...we have too few people living in nullsec...
you want PVP? put 20,000 people in nullsec and you will have a party...nuff said
"Right here, right now." |
Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:31:00 -
[173]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
When you move 100km+ away, you have to warp back though. In this time a cloaky with eyes on you can easily point you.
I never have this issue because I have set up bookmarks to align to. I am always in range and always aligned.
When you are turning around to re-align to a different bookmark, you are vulnerable. It takes a BS 15 secs to align.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener They can point instantly after decloaking, and you can't be aligned all the time due to range issues.
No they can't, and yes you can. You see, there are things that need to happen before you can actually apply that pointà I leave it as an exercise for the reader to find out what.
Quote: That is a fact.
Nope. If it were, this thread (and many on related topics that came before it) wouldn't exist.
Quote: "You clearly don't know how EVE works" is not a retort
So why did you use it?
Quote: You can't secure space from cloakies
Yes you can. You see, there are things cloakers can't do, and which you can use to your advantage. Again, I leave this as an exercise for the reader.
You are wrong on all accounts, this is left as an exercise for the reader to figure out why.
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:36:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Harener
I never have this issue because I have set up bookmarks to align to. I am always in range and always aligned.
When you are turning around to re-align to a different bookmark, you are vulnerable. It takes a BS 15 secs to align.
Yea if the BM is behind you and you're flying a brick. Mine are placed so I only have a quick alteration to do. I have also yet to meet a pilot who will wait after warping to a target before decloaking to get tackle.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:41:00 -
[175]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Harener
I never have this issue because I have set up bookmarks to align to. I am always in range and always aligned.
When you are turning around to re-align to a different bookmark, you are vulnerable. It takes a BS 15 secs to align.
Yea if the BM is behind you and you're flying a brick. Mine are placed so I only have a quick alteration to do. I have also yet to meet a pilot who will wait after warping to a target before decloaking to get tackle. Yea in a tengu it's easier but to have bookmarks spaced around a specific sanctum such that you only have to slightly change alignment to stay in range (effectively turning 360 degrees eventually) isn't possible because they're placed randomally. Even a shift of say 30 degrees totally breaks alignment and will cause you to waste a lot of time trying to warp, which is 10-15 secs in a BS, even the 5 secs it takes a tengu is enough to point it.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:44:00 -
[176]
A simple solution of course would be to make anomalies require probes, just like missions.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:45:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Harener You are wrong on all accounts, this is left as an exercise for the reader to figure out why.
You mean apart from the fact that it is not just possible, but unavoidable to detect cloakers (which may or may not change, we don't know yet); the fact that a cloaker can't "point instantly" after decloaking, especially ones with nullifiers; the fact that it's trivial to stay aligned without going out of range; the fact that you can secure areas of space ù especially deadspace and other types of dungeons ù from cloaking ships; and the fact that you just ran out of arguments?
Well, aside from thatà oh wait, there is nothing left to figure out now. Well, maybe some obscure reason why you are allowed to use "you obviously don't know" as a retort, but not I, but I just put this down to misapplied bravado. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:46:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Harener
Yea if the BM is behind you and you're flying a brick. Mine are placed so I only have a quick alteration to do. I have also yet to meet a pilot who will wait after warping to a target before decloaking to get tackle.
Yea in a tengu it's easier but to have bookmarks spaced around a specific sanctum such that you only have to slightly change alignment to stay in range (effectively turning 360 degrees eventually) isn't possible because they're placed randomally. Even a shift of say 30 degrees totally breaks alignment and will cause you to waste a lot of time trying to warp, which is 10-15 secs in a BS, even the 5 secs it takes a tengu is enough to point it.
It takes 9 seconds to do a full 180 and get into warp in my BS. To change direction I tend to only move 30 degrees and I am already up to full speed so getting into warp takes seconds. The vast bulk of the time I am aligned so get into warp instantly.
For someone to land on me while I am aligning to a different BM is very slim.
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Harener
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:50:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Harener You are wrong on all accounts, this is left as an exercise for the reader to figure out why.
You mean apart from the fact that it is not just possible, but unavoidable to detect cloakers (which may or may not change, we don't know yet); the fact that a cloaker can't "point instantly" after decloaking, especially ones with nullifiers; the fact that it's trivial to stay aligned without going out of range; the fact that you can secure areas of space ù especially deadspace and other types of dungeons ù from cloaking ships; and the fact that you just ran out of arguments?
Well, aside from thatà oh wait, there is nothing left to figure out now. Well, maybe some obscure reason why you are allowed to use "you obviously don't know" as a retort, but not I, but I just put this down to misapplied bravado.
You are trying so hard to be witty, it's cute.
It is impossible to prevent cloakers from entering your space and logging of in it, and of course it is also impossible to prevent cloakers from warping to your location and pointing you, they could have been logged off in the system for a week, so monitoring gates would do no good. The fact is it is impossible to prevent someone from warping in on you and pointing you at an opportune time, such as when you are re-aligning or are pointed by NPCs.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.20 09:53:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Tippia on 20/08/2011 09:53:47
Originally by: Harener It is impossible to prevent cloakers from entering your space and logging of in it,
Another lesson for you: ôareaö ≠ ôspaceö. So: stop sucking and secure your area.
Quote: it is also impossible to prevent cloakers from warping to your location and pointing you
No, it's not, for the simple reason that you can quite easily prevent them from pointing you. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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