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YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
419
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Posted - 2012.09.24 00:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Wormhole PI. Setup is 6 planets comprising 21 command centers across 2 accounts. Basic setup is P0 extraction converting on planet to P1 and then exporting to factory planets converting P1 into P4. Estimated profits about 1 bil isk per month.
Is this on par with what WH P1 profits should be for 2 accounts or can I do better? I here tales of PI with 2 across 2 accounts yielding 2-3 bil per month! |
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
13
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Posted - 2012.09.24 02:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can do a lot better from 21 command centers. I scaled down my PI to 12 planets and still making 1b minimum per month.
If you are producing p3/4 then you have to consider how big of a value increase over the base p2 you are getting and if there might be some different p2 that you could produce on the same planet (or another planet) that might yield a bigger profit per day. ame goes for p4 production. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
420
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Posted - 2012.09.24 04:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
Denal Umbra wrote:You can do a lot better from 21 command centers. I scaled down my PI to 12 planets and still making 1b minimum per month.
Do you mean 12 total planets or 12 command centers? I use 6 planets, but have my alts using the same planets (for different resources). Or do you mean that you only need 12 total facilities?
yk
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The VC's
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
23
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:36:00 -
[4] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote: Estimated profits about 1 bil isk per month. !
There is next to no trading market for P4. People that require P4's tend to produce them themselves.
That 1 Bill in stock you'll have will take months to shift.
Try making P2's or P3's that are used in T2 production.
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Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
13
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Posted - 2012.09.24 15:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote: For clarification, do you mean 12 total planets or 12 total facilities? I use 6 planets, but have my alts using the same planets for different resources with 21 different facilities total across those 6 planets.
yk
5 unique planets with 27 facilities set up for lazy mode for twice a week resets only.
If i had CCU5, IPC5 on 2 toons and CCU4, IPC4 on an alt, i could bring in 2.2b / month. Factory planets, specialized for p2/3 production with importing some goods (about a full orca load per month). Would require at least twice a day resets and haulage from the factory planets but that is too much work for me to bother with. 1b/month to pay for the plexes on both accounts is good enough for me.
The key is, to check if producing the p2/3/4 is profitable compared to setting up yet another p2 factory. Compare the p3/4 build costs vs setting up a p2 factory vs importing stuff inside to build the p2/3/4.
Actually, while i was running the numbers if i had 6 toons with CCU5, IPC5 then the possible profit would be... 5.6b per month with 300k volume of materials needed to haul in once a month. I seriously doubt the planets would sustain that kind of strip mining for a long period of time + don't have the time to spend 2-3h per day on PI.
note, this is with current pi prices with a 0% tax poco. Holding onto the stuff for a 'peak' sale could net 5-15% more or 20-30% less. |
Styth spiting
Gunzerkers
66
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Posted - 2012.09.24 19:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
You didn't mention what your tax % is which can really determine your setup. If its 0% - 3% you should consider putting 1 - 2 adv factories on each planet and importing P1's onto them to make your P2. Naturally you would only want to do this on small planets with high yield materials (if you're extracting water, oxygen, base, etc) that don't require that much power.
If you're looking to sell PI materials you're better off focusing on fuel block related PI mats. These sell really fast and well (Coolant is stupid expensive atm). P4's will sell, they just take a while. Most people who use P4's will make them themselves so unless you're selling them for very cheap you'll end up with a high volume of mats not selling.
So if you're manufacturing with PI goods then definitely make P4 (aka making POS structures) otherwise you will sell more volume and faster manufacturing P3 and P2 goods.
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YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
420
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Posted - 2012.09.24 22:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
Styth spiting wrote:You didn't mention what your tax % is which can really determine your setup. If its 0% - 3% you should consider putting 1 - 2 adv factories on each planet and importing P1's onto them to make your P2. Naturally you would only want to do this on small planets with high yield materials (if you're extracting water, oxygen, base, etc) that don't require that much power.
If you're looking to sell PI materials you're better off focusing on fuel block related PI mats. These sell really fast and well (Coolant is stupid expensive atm). P4's will sell, they just take a while. Most people who use P4's will make them themselves so unless you're selling them for very cheap you'll end up with a high volume of mats not selling.
So if you're manufacturing with PI goods then definitely make P4 (aka making POS structures) otherwise you will sell more volume and faster manufacturing P3 and P2 goods.
Tax rate is 5% atm. I really didn't see a probably with the P4 selling. Jita volume in buy prices is enough to cash in once per month at a decent price without exhausting the good buy orders... didn't feel like demand was an issue. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
420
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Posted - 2012.09.24 23:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Denal Umbra wrote:5 unique planets with 27 facilities set up for lazy mode for twice a week resets only.
If i had CCU5, IPC5 on 2 toons and CCU4, IPC4 on an alt, i could bring in 2.2b / month...
...Actually, while i was running the numbers if i had 6 toons with CCU5, IPC5 then the possible profit would be... 5.6b per month with 300k volume of materials needed to haul in once a month. I seriously doubt the planets would sustain that kind of strip mining for a long period of time + don't have the time to spend 2-3h per day on PI.
Mind sharing your math?
For example. Right now I can produce about 30 P4 units per day = 900 P4 units per month. If each P4 unit sells for roughly 1 mil then that's about 900 mil per month.
Now, lets say that instead of building P4 units I instead funneled the same amount of material into a profitable P3, Robotics for example. Each potential 1 P4 instead would net 18 robotic (P3) units (assuming that all the P0 resources I extractors were switched to purely support robotics). That's 30 x 18 = 540 robotics produced per day or 16200 robotics units per month. At current Jita prices of 58k isk per robotic unit, that still comes out to around 900mil isk per month...
... I'm not seeing the greater profitability. Or is my math flawed?
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The VC's
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2012.09.25 02:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:
... I'm not seeing the greater profitability. Or is my math flawed?
Your math is sound. The robotics will sell fast though. The P4's not so much.
When checking prices, have a look at how old the orders are. If you see a lot of older orders that means the demand is low and that they haven't been updated. As mentioned before, you may sell one batch to the available buy orders but it may take a while for new buy orders to be issued. Some P4 buy orders can be untouched for months.
If you're set on making P4's, I'd advise looking into manufacturing to make the most of them. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
420
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Posted - 2012.09.25 11:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
The VC's wrote:YuuKnow wrote:
... I'm not seeing the greater profitability. Or is my math flawed?
Your math is sound. The robotics will sell fast though. The P4's not so much. When checking prices, have a look at how old the orders are. If you see a lot of older orders that means the demand is low and that they haven't been updated. As mentioned before, you may sell one batch to the available buy orders but it may take a while for new buy orders to be issued. Some P4 buy orders can be untouched for months.
That's good advice. I'll definately look at the age of the buy order updates the next time I'm in Jita.
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Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
13
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Posted - 2012.09.25 16:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote: Mind sharing your math?
For example. Right now I can produce about 30 P4 units per day = 900 P4 units per month. If each P4 unit sells for roughly 1 mil then that's about 900 mil per month.
Now, lets say that instead of building P4 units I instead funneled the same amount of material into a profitable P3, Robotics for example. Each potential 1 P4 instead would net 18 robotic (P3) units (assuming that all the P0 resources I extractors were switched to purely support robotics). That's 30 x 18 = 540 robotics produced per day or 16200 robotics units per month. At current Jita prices of 58k isk per robotic unit, that still comes out to around 900mil isk per month...
... I'm not seeing the greater profitability. Or is my math flawed?
Difference is, i use sell orders instead to calculate the profit. If the movement on the p3 is more than 100k/day you can sell it off within 15min-2h usually. So the profit on the robotics would be actually 1.2-1.3b in your example.
As for the math...
On a decent planet you can set up at least 8 p1 factories. With 4 p1 production planets being moved into a factory planet that has 16 p2 factories and room for 4 p3 factories and potentially 4 more p2 factories, that are going to get their p1 from the 6. planet.
That will come up to... 4 p3 factories (~130m/month @ 60k unit) 4 p2 factories (~25-40m @ 8-11k unit)
600-700m per character with max skills.
However, depending on the p3 you are producing it might be more profitable to import one of the p2 inputs. Doing so would mean...
4 p3 factories (~130m) 12 p2 factories (~25-40m) -8 p2 factories (-22m @ 6k unit)
660-830m per character, per month.
The possible profits can be higher, depending on the quality and types of planets found. |
SlayerOfArgus
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.09.26 00:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
I have five planets and am making robotics. About 450-500mil per month from that alone. And that's me being super lazy. I could make more but I can't be arsed to actually do it. Look into producing something that has lots of turnover. Since you're in a wormhole I would suggest producing p3's because of ease of moving them out. POS products are a great item to make since people will always need them. I believe that prices are rather set for now because new pos are always going up and new producers are always coming into the market. How dust will shake things up, I'm not entirely sure yet.
All I know is I'm going to start getting a stockpile together just in case **** hits the fan. |
YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
421
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Posted - 2012.09.26 04:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote:I have five planets and am making robotics.
How many characters? Just one?
yk
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YuuKnow
Inner 5phere
421
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Posted - 2012.09.26 04:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Denal Umbra wrote: As for the math...
On a decent planet you can set up at least 8 p1 factories. With 4 p1 production planets being moved into a factory planet that has 16 p2 factories and room for 4 p3 factories and potentially 4 more p2 factories, that are going to get their p1 from the 6. planet.
That will come up to... 4 p3 factories (~130m/month @ 60k unit) 4 p2 factories (~25-40m @ 8-11k unit)
600-700m per character with max skills.
However, depending on the p3 you are producing it might be more profitable to import one of the p2 inputs. Doing so would mean...
4 p3 factories (~130m) 12 p2 factories (~25-40m) -8 p2 factories (-22m @ 6k unit)
660-830m per character, per month.
The possible profits can be higher, depending on the quality and types of planets found.
I see. I think I failed to see that some P3 require 3 seperate types of P2 input while others only require 2 types of P2 input. The P3 that requires lesser input per until grants you more productivity in terms of less P0 requirements per P3 produced and can boost your income (more P3 produced for every P0). I'll have to look more carefully at what is possible with the planets we have available and may have to switch the P3 or P4 that I'm producing.
Good tips.
yk |
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
13
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:16:00 -
[15] - Quote
SlayerOfArgus wrote:I have five planets and am making robotics. About 450-500mil per month from that alone. And that's me being super lazy. I could make more but I can't be arsed to actually do it. Look into producing something that has lots of turnover. Since you're in a wormhole I would suggest producing p3's because of ease of moving them out. POS products are a great item to make since people will always need them. I believe that prices are rather set for now because new pos are always going up and new producers are always coming into the market. How dust will shake things up, I'm not entirely sure yet.
All I know is I'm going to start getting a stockpile together just in case **** hits the fan.
The prices are not set and are starting to drop, since there are 1000's of people who saw the high price on robotics/coolant and started producing them. In a month, the price will have dropped to 8k on coolant and 55k on robotics. Still a decent profit but not as much as you could make on some other p2/3.
The reason why they skyrocketed was the massive influx of ice products. The bottle neck used to be coolant and robotics, that is no longer the case.
Edit: The whole pi market is never set in stone and continually fluctuates due to supply and demand. |
SlayerOfArgus
Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.09.28 06:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
YuuKnow wrote:SlayerOfArgus wrote:I have five planets and am making robotics. How many characters? Just one? yk
Yeah just one. I have 1 planet extracting each resource and then a final planet constructs them with the last two levels. This page helped me a lot. The last picture is how I have my factories set up for my final production planet. I highly suggest getting planetology to V, along with command center upgrades. They are worth it. Advanced can be trained to 4 tbh. Even if prices were to drop some it's still very easy isk for me.
Denal Umbra wrote:SlayerOfArgus wrote:I have five planets and am making robotics. About 450-500mil per month from that alone. And that's me being super lazy. I could make more but I can't be arsed to actually do it. Look into producing something that has lots of turnover. Since you're in a wormhole I would suggest producing p3's because of ease of moving them out. POS products are a great item to make since people will always need them. I believe that prices are rather set for now because new pos are always going up and new producers are always coming into the market. How dust will shake things up, I'm not entirely sure yet.
All I know is I'm going to start getting a stockpile together just in case **** hits the fan. The prices are not set and are starting to drop, since there are 1000's of people who saw the high price on robotics/coolant and started producing them. In a month, the price will have dropped to 8k on coolant and 55k on robotics. Still a decent profit but not as much as you could make on some other p2/3. The reason why they skyrocketed was the massive influx of ice products. The bottle neck used to be coolant and robotics, that is no longer the case. Edit: The whole pi market is never set in stone and continually fluctuates due to supply and demand.
True the market is always shifting and I feel it will drop continually, but at the same time we still don't know how strong of a role Dust will be in the PI market so we'll just have to wait and see. It might take a while though before some sort of price change to occur. But I believe there will always be people entering and leaving the market but PI is fairly easy to perform and so the risk vs reward aspect is quite balanced.
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LordAssasin
Tz Industries AAA Citizens
1
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
In my opinion the problem is like this. First q how much you want to obtain from semi pasive work. lets put a target of 3 bils divide by 30 days . So u get 100 mils per 1 day. ok this divide by 24 cos this is the basic time unit for Pi. 4.1 mils per h. so this divide either the P4 route (1.2 mils per item) or p3 (55 k per item) .So the p4 route is ~4 units per h. Lets see what this requires. This is hole combining planet (I). 4 high indus +18 advance(6 per needed resoruce P3) +LPad. For all those 6 advance industry you need 12 advance industy minim to work 24/7. so now you need 12 x 6 = 72 advance industry for the imput. But on a planet you cannot put more than 25 . so here we have another 3 planets. So we have (II,III,IV). no this char in my opinion must have iteron 5 under the belt cos is a shiet load of pi to move and put a cloaking device to buy some time from the gankers:). Next this 72 advanced are fueld by no mor no less than 144 basic industry in order to work 24/7. now from what i have seen a planet holds like this a 10 head extractor +2 Lpad+~9 basic industry depending on the link (this depending on the radius of the planet) . so 144 /9 =16 planets. But only problem is this that the basic extrator planet is only producen like ~5K TO ~9k of P1 wich is not enough. So now the tweeking comes into play. I have found my solution, have YOU? Me i am a 6 alts char with 6 planets all. so this is 36 planets. 36-20(16+4) i have an extra 16 planest to produce an extra p1 to suppliment my low skills. But trust me is a hassle to get 3 bils a month. The bigest one is transport. omg...to carry a full transport of PI is 90 milions. is to much...so you figure your figures and poste below how much you do.:) Later hope it helped...like if you like to see more. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1006
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Posted - 2012.10.01 23:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
When I was doing PI from w-space, I was using 4 characters: 3 extraction + 1 factories.
I mostly make P2 with the only P3 being some Robotics (primarily for my own use) on a 12x(P1+P1->P2), 6x(P2+P2->P3) planet (hence 3 spaceports - this was pre silo buff).
The P2 sales averaged 21m per day per 21x(P1+P1>P2) factory planet, so ~3b per month. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
153
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
The VC's wrote:YuuKnow wrote: Estimated profits about 1 bil isk per month. ! There is next to no trading market for P4. People that require P4's tend to produce them themselves.
Don't take this personally, but non-sense. It *IS* a specialized market, but quite frankly I couldn't build Recursive Computing Modules and Wetware Mainframes fast enough. they all sold within hours of going up on market (Amarr and The Citadel).
I'll repeat, tho: it IS a specialized market, so selling outside trade hubs is probably spotty. |
The VC's
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
28
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:The VC's wrote:YuuKnow wrote: Estimated profits about 1 bil isk per month. ! There is next to no trading market for P4. People that require P4's tend to produce them themselves. Don't take this personally, but non-sense. It *IS* a specialized market, but quite frankly I couldn't build Recursive Computing Modules and Wetware Mainframes fast enough. they all sold within hours of going up on market (Amarr and The Citadel). I'll repeat, tho: it IS a specialized market, so selling outside trade hubs is probably spotty.
Err...maybe it is nonsense.
I ran the numbers on Caldari control towers last night and I'm beginning to reconsider P4's. Between 'the power of two' and this summer's big nullsec war, the pos market has improved. Not sure how long it will last though.
This is a more recent development. I originally started out making P4's way back when, then gave up as my turnover was low.
Also, with these small sub-pos's coming next year I'd expect P4 demand to rise. |
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