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Miss Nothing
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Posted - 2011.08.21 06:30:00 -
[1]
So, I may be engaging a Thanatos-Class carrier in the next few days, and was wondering if anybody had advice on an efficient way to take it down. We'll be fielding likely somewhere between 5 and 8 ships, and unfortunately have no capitals (or supercapitals) at our disposal. Assuming it's possible to win with these limitations, is there any sort of fleet composition that would be best for taking down a solo carrier with minimum losses?
My ideas so far include: 1. Smartbombing the hell out of its drones and fighters. 2. Logistics, and lots of it. 3. Getting a couple battleships with full racks of heavy neuts. Unfortunately, Bhaalgorns aren't an option due to SP and ISK limitations.
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2ippy
Amarr Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2011.08.21 07:05:00 -
[2]
5-8 Ships is more then sufficient to take down a carrier, and the more neuts you have, the better
Any small gang setup that has decent dps will do the job and carriers don't have that much dps so you don't need a fleet of logi
2ippy
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Mfume Apocal
Minmatar Origin. Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.08.21 07:15:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Miss Nothing We'll be fielding likely somewhere between 5 and 8 ships, and unfortunately have no capitals (or supercapitals) at our disposal. Assuming it's possible to win with these limitations, is there any sort of fleet composition that would be best for taking down a solo carrier with minimum losses?
[Tempest, Sailboat] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II
Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Invulnerability Field II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 500W Infectious Power System Malfunction 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L
Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Valkyrie II x5
5 or 6 of these, perhaps swapping out 1 invuln for points if you don't have the numbers for a dedicated heavy tackler and 1 or 2 shield logis. Be sure to insure the Tempests, so even if you do lose them, the actual isk loss is minimal.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.08.21 07:28:00 -
[4]
If he really is solo it's really easy to kill a carrier.
1 X bhaal / neuting baddon 2-3 standard baddons 2 X guardians
Doable with any battleships really, as long as you get like 10+ heavy neuts on him he'll go down most probably, his dps output will be low, but smartbombing cover is an option.
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2011.08.21 11:10:00 -
[5]
machs with 1 single scimi will do it, more machs the better.
dont have the ISK?
Shield gank BS like shield baddons with max damage mods and geddonds/megas and stuff and 1 scimi will do it.
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.08.21 11:34:00 -
[6]
Cheap setup: 2 logistics, 2 neut domi's with sentry drones, 4 (or less) damage bs. Will be a piece of cake. --- Drykor - AHARM |
Hwong Jian
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Posted - 2011.08.21 16:48:00 -
[7]
Cheaper setup: 1 scimitar, 1 curse, any 2 battleships that can put out 1200 dps. AC pests work fantastically, since they have selectable damage types.
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.08.21 18:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 21/08/2011 18:46:58 RR neut Domi herd . Once he's capped out (16 heavy neuts on him will murder his cap p swiftly), he's not going to be running any smartbombs to mitigate the incoming Ogre/Berserker/Sentry damage. Even poorly skilled, eight of you will be doing 2400-3500dps that he's unable to rep through (cap status: pwnt). As an added bonus, Domis are supercheap hulls.
Fit 2x large remote reps 2x energy transfers 2x heavy neuts Cap booster whatever else in the mids (point, web, prop, etc) Buffer/resists Bay full of heavies and sentries
Set up a RR/transfer circlejerk, watch your broadcasts and own everything. |
Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.21 19:57:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind on 21/08/2011 19:57:58 some RR neut domis should do the trick. cheap and effective
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Miss Nothing
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Posted - 2011.08.21 22:08:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Aloe Cloveris Edited by: Aloe Cloveris on 21/08/2011 18:46:58 RR neut Domi herd . Once he's capped out (16 heavy neuts on him will murder his cap p swiftly), he's not going to be running any smartbombs to mitigate the incoming Ogre/Berserker/Sentry damage. Even poorly skilled, eight of you will be doing 2400-3500dps that he's unable to rep through (cap status: pwnt). As an added bonus, Domis are supercheap hulls.
Fit 2x large remote reps 2x energy transfers 2x heavy neuts Cap booster whatever else in the mids (point, web, prop, etc) Buffer/resists Bay full of heavies and sentries
Set up a RR/transfer circlejerk, watch your broadcasts and own everything.
Thanks to everyone for all the responses! I have to say, I think that the RR Domi post seems like the best option for what we plan to do, as we wouldn't be left depending on the presence of any one person - not to mention one or two dead ships doesn't mean we're out of the game, since all of them would be identical.
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2011.08.22 12:42:00 -
[11]
just remember that with such a small fleet you will take it down, but you will not get a killmail to show you did it.
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.08.22 14:09:00 -
[12]
A non-triage carrier can tank between 2500 and 5000 dps, depending on fit and if it's an archon or not (not in this case). A t2 fitted abaddon with 5% hardwirings, BS5, conflag and 2x heatsinks pumps out about 1k turret dps (he'll smartbomb your drones, probably). 8x such abaddons should drop him pretty fast. I use abaddons as an example but maelstroms, mega's, ravens or geddons work just as well if not better. 1k dps is very typical for a well skilled BS. Tank shouldn't be an issue, if any mega's or geddons you have with you fit a large RR in their utility high, you'll have enough tank. A thanny only does around 1500 dps and fighters rarely do full damage against a moving BS, even one putting along at 90m/s like an abaddon with no speed mod.
He'll probably try to self destruct once he hits low armor but you should be able to finish him before it finishes. I advise against neuts simply because a non-traige carrier doesn't actually use all that much cap. They have a nasty habit of having 2-3x as much cap recharge as they need, so just don't bother with that. DPS him and he'll break easily enough. I must stress again that you have to fit for dps, you can't ***** out and do one of those silly 4x plate no damage mod setups everyone loves to run around in. Skip the ever popular loginix too, against a non-triage carrier, those contribute 0 dps. Your ships must be balanced or ganky fits and any non-sentry drones probably won't be of any use. The least I've taken down a carrier with was 4x completely ordinary t2 fitted BS's without any support, it wasn't overly difficult either.
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Lady Go Diveher
The Independent Troll Society
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Posted - 2011.08.22 15:22:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tammarr just remember that with such a small fleet you will take it down, but you will not get a killmail to show you did it.
Yeh, this.
All of the above suggestions are good (except the solo curse .. lulz) but have FRAPS on hand and running, cause you'll get something flash on screen containing the message "120 seconds" which will be much too short a time to make it pop. -------
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MirrorGod
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.23 15:31:00 -
[14]
Originally by: King Rothgar A non-triage carrier can tank between 2500 and 5000 dps, depending on fit and if it's an archon or not (not in this case). A t2 fitted abaddon with 5% hardwirings, BS5, conflag and 2x heatsinks pumps out about 1k turret dps (he'll smartbomb your drones, probably). 8x such abaddons should drop him pretty fast. I use abaddons as an example but maelstroms, mega's, ravens or geddons work just as well if not better. 1k dps is very typical for a well skilled BS. Tank shouldn't be an issue, if any mega's or geddons you have with you fit a large RR in their utility high, you'll have enough tank. A thanny only does around 1500 dps and fighters rarely do full damage against a moving BS, even one putting along at 90m/s like an abaddon with no speed mod.
He'll probably try to self destruct once he hits low armor but you should be able to finish him before it finishes. I advise against neuts simply because a non-traige carrier doesn't actually use all that much cap. They have a nasty habit of having 2-3x as much cap recharge as they need, so just don't bother with that. DPS him and he'll break easily enough. I must stress again that you have to fit for dps, you can't ***** out and do one of those silly 4x plate no damage mod setups everyone loves to run around in. Skip the ever popular loginix too, against a non-triage carrier, those contribute 0 dps. Your ships must be balanced or ganky fits and any non-sentry drones probably won't be of any use. The least I've taken down a carrier with was 4x completely ordinary t2 fitted BS's without any support, it wasn't overly difficult either.
Showing your green-ness here pilot. Not suprised though, with your corp ticker and all. The neuts shut off hardeners, and those make ALL the difference on a carriers tank. There's already a few good fleet fitouts that could end a lone carrier ITT. Good luck OP.
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King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.08.23 23:34:00 -
[15]
Mirrorgod, you really aren't that bright you know. If we're talking 6-8 guys, it takes ages to cap out a carrier unless it's all bhaalgorns. Let's say 6x dps ships and 2x neut domis. That's pretty reasonable for what the OP was talking about. With 2x neut domis using 3x heavy neuts and 3x medium neuts, it would take 4.5 minutes to cap out the non-triage thanny I will post at the end of this. That's with it running both reps and no implants. Even so, he's actually cap stable with the reps turned off. The end result is even with all those neuts on him, he can still run a 1300 dps tank out of his original 2700 dps tank. Also note that it has no active hardeners. In fact other than some fail fits, I've never seen active hardeners on a small gang carrier. You can't neut out EANM's mirrorgod, perhaps one day you'll learn that. The only time you see active hardeners on a non-fail carrier is in pantheon fleets and the OP was talking about 1 thanny, not 200 of them.
So now for the real question, what's better: 8k dps against a carrier with 2700 dps tank or 6k dps against a carrier with 2700 dps tank for 4 minutes, then 1300 dps after that? Both ways do work, but my experience is pure dps simply works better in that scenario. If we were talking about a triage carrier in a fleet then it would be different, but that's not what the OP was asking about.
[Thanatos, non-triage] Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Capacitor Power Relay II
ECCM - Omni II Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Einherji x10
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mxzf
Minmatar Shovel Bros
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Posted - 2011.08.24 02:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: King Rothgar *snip*
I think it's more likely that the OP is planning on engaging a PvE Thanny, since he's talking about it in the singular form. However your point remains, capping out a non-fail carrier is unrealistic.
And on top of that, Mirrorgod, it's all but impossible to cap out a Carrier so much that it shuts down the Hardeners, a hardener uses 30 GJ, a Thanny's base stats averages 14 GJ/s regen BEFORE skills, CCCs, Cap Rechargers,or anything else. With max skills, CCCs, and 4x Recharger 2s it's an average of 95.5 cap/s. You'd have to be blastedly lucky to land a neut cycle in the half second before the hardener triggers.
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bartos100
DARK ADAMA Terra Axiom
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Posted - 2011.08.24 08:51:00 -
[17]
the point of caping out a carrier is not to shut down the resist mods but to shut down his local tank and his RR mods and those all use a lot of cap :)
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steave435
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.08.24 10:37:00 -
[18]
The neut setups guarantee success. A solo carrier has no use for RRs, so if he's really solo, he has a lot of utility highs. He'll have neuts and smartbombs for sure, but without the need for RR, it's possible he could have a triage mod as backup. If he does, he can survive until he runs out of stront, giving a lot of time for any friends he has to get there, or for him to get a cyno alt somewhere and try to jump the second his triage drops, and with only 8 BS there, probably not max skilled, it's possible he could manage to tank long enough while keeping cap high enough to manage it..unless you have a HIC ofcourse, but then that means removing 1 neut/DPS ship. If you're using neuts though...he's stuck there and can't run enough reps to survive even in triage.
Rothgar, you're assuming that he's gonna start at 100% cap and that he's not gonna panic and perma run reps even past peak recharge. Both are unlikely, deploying a carrier completely solo indicates he's a noob.
Regardless, it shouldn't be an either/or thing. Bring shield gank Tempests and Ravens, they'll match the DPS of whatever other BS you would have brought AND can fit 2 heavy neuts each. |
Darling Hassasin
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Posted - 2011.08.24 15:04:00 -
[19]
Cap war for a solo carrier not needed most of the time... any way all opinions here have merit...
... except for mirrorgod's.... dude Rothgar was dishing out l33t pvp long before PL was formed... Plus I have had many run ins with sniggerdly over the year here and their and do not remember mirrorgod so I think if not self sarcastic your comment was pretty much ridiculous...
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MeganFox1131 Ohaya
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Posted - 2011.08.24 16:15:00 -
[20]
As for the Bhaalgorn, there is another option, which would work pretty well and have a decent amount of DPS. A neuting/Torp Rokh. Yes i know its not how its meant to be used, but this thing can neut the crap out of any ship. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/53807-Rokh-Neut-torp-active.html
Decent DPS + Great Neuting Ability
Also will you ONLY be fighting a thanatos, or will it have support?
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Captain Sage
Hole Spectors E.Y
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Posted - 2011.08.25 14:22:00 -
[21]
http://hole.killmail.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=10352467
One of our recent Carrier kills. He was triple repp'ed so we needed the neuts, but once his cap was gone he went down fairly quickly.
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Andrejs L
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Posted - 2011.08.28 05:48:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Andrejs L on 28/08/2011 05:48:06 Edited by: Andrejs L on 28/08/2011 05:47:54 1x nyx
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.28 08:17:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind on 21/08/2011 19:57:58 some RR neut domis should do the trick. cheap and effective
What this guy said.Wicked tank. sentry drones for dps. Good neuting. Cheap.
Not very often I agree with a guy from TEST. <3 |
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