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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.23 15:00:00 -
[1]
Backstory- We are a small corp(5-6 guys) with a small pos in a c2. We run the sites in the c2 and static c4 semi-routinely. Our pos has only a ship array and hanger. No defences as we we looking not to draw attention to ourselves and seem like a waste of time to be attacked.
Now: Last night our pos was attacked and put into reiforced mode. We expected this eventually as sooner or later someone will want an easy pos kill on their killboard. All the expensive ships were removed way before the attack (we kind of saw it coming) and by the time I post this our tower we be dead. We really couldn't care less about the loss (a t1 bs and a few frigs- maybe 150 mil total) and we had some fun as they jumped in a site. Knowing that we are going to lose, what i want to know is what we could do in a situation like that to p1ss them off? We self-destructed a few ships just for fun, was a good laugh, and now we can't wait to do it again in another wh with a large pos and some defences this time. So is there anything else we could have done? Thanks. |
Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.08.23 15:37:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 23/08/2011 15:39:21
Originally by: Cho Konnit Our pos has only a ship array and hanger. No defences as we we looking not to draw attention to ourselves and seem like a waste of time to be attacked.
Quote: Now: Last night our pos was attacked and put into reiforced mode. We expected this eventually as sooner or later someone will want an easy pos kill on their killboard.
If you're going to set up a POS in any area where it might be attacked without warning, your only sensible options are to build one so cheap that the loss does't matter, or build one able to defend itself against an organized battleship gang (supers aren't such an issue in WHs.) If you can get intel on what the attackers are using to finish off the POS, you can time a log-on trap for them. Most likely this would occur right about the time the POS comes out of reinforced. POS comes out of reinforced, gankers start their attack, your own gank ships warp to your covert ops or recon ship hidden amongst the attackers. Attackers die and get podded out of the WH, and everyone wins (except them.)
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.23 15:54:00 -
[3]
It was cheap and it didn't matter- that was the idea when we set it up.
2 of us watched them put it into reinforced mode with 8 bs from inside and outside our pos. All we had to fly around in were 2 manticores. Not much use against those bs's. We are not pvp'ers by any means (but we'll give it a go if we need to) and still looked at trying a few things- just to be annoying. The highsec exit was camped on both sides by a few bc's, and t2 criusers. They had their drones out trying to decloak us so the best we could do was bomb the he11 out of their drones but they recalled them before we could get organized to do it. We had alot of fun with the little action we saw and look forward to more.
I just wanted to know what else we could have done to annoy them a bit. Thanks for the response.
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.08.23 16:54:00 -
[4]
well. as you are not pvpers i advice to use next time SB attack =)
just make a fleet or 2 with 6 ships in each, use equal bombs. Just warp, drop bomb and get out. Whole fleet at once
Sb is cheap, fast to train and fun to act. 6 bombs will make big BOOM and maybe kill somebody. You even don't need to get out
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Socks Malone
Caldari Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.23 17:37:00 -
[5]
A small POS is an affront to most WH corps and will be targeted, especially if it has no guns nor hardeners. C2's are also popular for invasions. Basically your POS was a big red flag for them. With your probable statics, the WH is worth some ISK as well.
You should have done a couple bombing runs if they were in BS's. I would of done some research first and made sure they weren't known for using HICs as that would of ruined your day.
If you really want to get back at them, I'd suggest hiring Narwhals Ate My Duck alliance as we specialize in WH merc work and are highly regarded in all the sleaziest places.
For all things WH related you can't do worse than Nathan's site: www.talocanunited.com
This page is my favorite: http://talocanunited.com/wordpress/?page_id=3181 Contact Chitsa Jason of Narwhals Ate My Duck for all your WH merc needs. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.08.23 18:38:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 23/08/2011 18:39:05
C2. Small control tower. No defenses.
You were begging to be attacked by any roving gang that was bored enough, or anybody else that wanted to move into that C2.
Odds are the aggressors won't be back to destroy it, unless they wanted to move in. Rep and re-stront it, and expect to be attacked again by others.
If you want to live in w-space get a large Amarr or Minmatar, and fit it as a deathstar. See the Science and Industry forum resource sticky for the POS fitting guide for ideas (worth reading every post): POS Setups: Jump Bridge/Cyno Jam/Reactions, Moon Mine/Mining, Labs, WH.
I've lived in w-space for about 2.5 years now, most recently in a C5. I'm willing to help anybody willing to put in the effort to learn.
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.23 19:17:00 -
[7]
We knew our days were numbered and totally expected this to happen. I am surprised it lasted as long as it did (a few months with little to no trouble from anyone). The wh has 2 other towers in it that although still online seemed to be forgotten or used very little. It was good to get our feet wet and now we are planning our next tower; in a different wh of course.
I can see this slowly turning us into pvp'ers as the hesitation to warp to hostiles is turning into excitement and eagerness to get into real fights. I lost a sb when I warped to help a corpmate who was under attack. But unfortunately 4 of his friends arrived seconds before I did and I got butt ra-ped.
I recommend mission runners try it out and have some fun 'cause we all know missions get boring fast. And you can make way more isk in a wh.
Thanks for all the feedback. |
Zakua Corbin
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:08:00 -
[8]
Nice out look on the outcome =).
It is all in all a very fun adventure and glad to see you guys although under equipped, enjoyed the ride.
Set your self up a DeathStar since you wont be manufacturing...you can use all the power grid and CPU for lots of guns and def arrays.
It takes alot of battleships and alot of time to drop a large Amarr or minmatar tower...that will give you guys plenty of time to have some fun with the aggresors and SB the hell out of em
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:56:00 -
[9]
I think we might try out a "d1ckstar" instead of a "deathstar" because sometimes it's more fun to mess with people than to just shoot them. I think it would increase our survivability in sb's. Besides we could always put up extras mods and online what we need.
I've also read that medium towers are a waste of time and that you mind as well get a large. We should probably recruit some more corp members too.
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Derath Ellecon
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Posted - 2011.08.23 20:59:00 -
[10]
For additional fun, make sure you have some POS gunners. I can tell you from the other side it can make a difference.
I was on the other end a couple months back. We were bashing this POS. In the WH the corp had 2 large POS's The first one took awhile, but it went into reinforced.
We then decided to hit the second POS. The gunners must have woken up because they were waiting. Within maybe 45 seconds they managed to scramble 2 of our command ships, jam the logi and kill a tricked out Nighthawk and Sleipnir.
After that it was decided the second POS wasn't worth the effort for the potential candy inside.
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Bodega Cat
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Posted - 2011.08.24 13:31:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Bodega Cat on 24/08/2011 13:34:58 Most of the advice you've seen here is correct. If someone really wants your tower down and you don't have pilots that can actively come to its defense, no setup will be good enough. You did good by going in with the understanding to keeping your losses to a minimum.
However, if you gotta anchor something, the first piece of advice is to make it as annoying as possible by loading it up with jammers. Nothing but jammers online and you can at least make sure your assailants have to put in a lot of time just to get it. But make no mistake, it too will fail.
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.24 19:29:00 -
[12]
Yes, the advice her gas been great. Especially the links a few posts up. There's a lot to consider when setting up a pos and i think we got a good idea what we want to do; keep it on the cheap (until we make some real isk- then come some upgrades) and make it annoying to deal with. A Minmatar tower has good balance and I think is the way to go for now. The Caldari tower has no power. If anyone has any setups for an ewar pos please share it if you could.
It will take a bit of effort with a small corp like us to keep it operating but we like a challenge and will see how long this one lasts. I suppose setting it up is stressfull knowing that you can be attacked at any moment. We'd better have all hands on deck for that. Now to find another wh... |
Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente PonyWaffe Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.24 22:26:00 -
[13]
If your serious about a survivable tower id run a d***star and have everyone in your corp train up pos gunnery, a d***star with gunners will take serious numbers and/or capital support to take down. Deathstar guns can be repped through with sufficient logi, cant do much when a manned d***star has the logi jammed out and is popping the damage dealing ships like candy, without reps even a few pos guns can take out BSes pretty fast.
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grumpyguts1
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Posted - 2011.08.24 23:06:00 -
[14]
Build some carriers. That will give them one heck of a surprise. They would need a sizable fleet to take down 2 carriers supporting each other. I say this cause I have seen it. I have even seen corps use carriers with harvester mining drones in a C2
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Socks Malone
Caldari Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.08.25 06:16:00 -
[15]
Any tower is burnable, especially with TZ warfare. Your POS gunners and carrier pilots have to sleep sometime.
WH space has several loose alliances that show up for POS bashing, CTA's, and good fights. I'd suggest joining one. Talocan United is the friendliest to newer players. I'd also say that they would be the likeliest to drop everything and respond to a CTA or evicting the unworthy. Nathan Jameson runs a good crew and alliance. There is even a Wormhole Coalition of small alliances and corps.
PVP is integral to WH life. You can make lots of ISK, but you have to be ever vigilant. The logistics makes mining without a Rorqual annoying. I'd definitely discuss what you want to do with your corp in WH's. Contact Chitsa Jason of Narwhals Ate My Duck for all your WH merc needs. |
Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.25 22:14:00 -
[16]
(*edit spelling- "her gas" was supposed to say "here has" a few post up)
We figure a little more ewar will buy us some time if we are attacked since we are a smaller corp and our response time will be slower. We plan on contacting some of those alliances mentioned to see what they are all about. And carriers- they are on the list for sure. 2 at first then maybe a third.
Thanks again for all the advice. |
DieZir
Malice Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.29 18:18:00 -
[17]
If you want 2 frustrate the attackers - then build a ****star (large pos). Include some hardeners, and a few nuets (train up the ability 2 u pos guns/mods). Have several bombers in your ship hangar and a good amount of bombs. Finally, space out ur pos mods.
When u get attacked jam and nuet ur opponents - especially any logi ships. Basically make spider-tanking nightmarish. Then, bomb them often, especially when they deploy drones. Again, the goal is to make the takedown costly.
The biggest key is to actually be online when the siege begins. As 2 the hardeners - they will prolong the fight, and give u additional time to organize a counter attack.
Obviously, if they really want your tower - and u cant organize a sufficient counter force - it'll fall. But u will have achieved a phyrric victory.
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.08.29 21:13:00 -
[18]
That's exactly what we have done. A few hardeners, lots of ecm/neut, some guns, web, disrupt, etc. And a lot of extras offline so we can change it up depending how we get attacked. We did get ballsy and put the new tower in the exact same spot as the one we lost. I'd like to see them take this one down as easily. I almost want someone to try just to see how it goes.
In the mean time we are back to running the c4 sites and training up pos gunnery. Bombers are definitely part of the plan. We have found a few more members since but I still feel like we should have more. Good members are hard to find.
Again, thanks for the advice. It all helps. |
grumpyguts1
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Posted - 2011.08.29 21:44:00 -
[19]
If you need to online them after you have been attacked, it will be too late. Attackers will shoot anything that is on-lining first, we do anyway. They will be incaped before they even come online.
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KickButt61
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Posted - 2011.08.31 15:16:00 -
[20]
Put some mobile warp disruptors around your pos guns.It will drag them onto the guns when they warp 100 off to scout the pos.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.08.31 18:17:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 31/08/2011 18:17:11
Originally by: KickButt61 Put some mobile warp disruptors around your pos guns.It will drag them onto the guns when they warp 100 off to scout the pos.
Bubbles on a POS are useless. They will do more harm to the owner than anybody else.
A scout will be cloaked, and even if it gets uncloaked by containers or drones, an uncloaked Covert Ops frigate can re-cloak before a small faction POS gun can lock it (non-cloaked frigs can just turn around and warp out). The scout will create warp-in bookmarks that avoid the bubbles.
Been there. Done that. Didn't work.
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VegasMirage
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Posted - 2011.08.31 22:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Cho Konnit That's exactly what we have done. A few hardeners, lots of ecm/neut, some guns, web, disrupt, etc. And a lot of extras offline so we can change it up depending how we get attacked. We did get ballsy and put the new tower in the exact same spot as the one we lost. I'd like to see them take this one down as easily. I almost want someone to try just to see how it goes.
In the mean time we are back to running the c4 sites and training up pos gunnery. Bombers are definitely part of the plan. We have found a few more members since but I still feel like we should have more. Good members are hard to find.
Again, thanks for the advice. It all helps.
Assuming no gunners (which is a shame)
imo a shreder POS makes better sense in c1 to c4's since you can't bring in caps. POS's cycle primary, if its cycling small to medium guns quickly targets get shreded. Also, attacking forces always kill your Scram/Webs first so make sure you have a lot of those offlined ready to be onlined when needed. If you check 99% of the POS's out there will have 3 of them at most 1 on top 1 on bottom and 1 stuck somewhere randomly. Bet you only have 3 too?
EWAR is a nuisance for smaller fleets, but when you have a large fleet of 20 or more BS's then EWAR isn't that big of an issue b/c it cycles primary. Neuts are awesome if for nothing else pure terror for the attacking fleet.
Blackbirds are a pain and you can use them at range, so have 10 BB's with racials warp to your 100km safes around the POS and jam ships/logistics preferably. Ah and keep moving, always be moving when you're in a wormhole, preferably aligned to another safe.
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.09.01 02:06:00 -
[23]
We figured bubbles weren't a good idea because all they will do is help our attackers kill us as we warp in or out.
Our pos is in a c2 with a static c4- we run the c4 sites when enough corpmates are online and the c2 sites otherwise. If we don't like the c4 that spawns we close it and try another.
No one will be attacking with a cap ship and we intend to build at least 2 ourselves (obviously to help defend and maybe help take out the tower that's in here with us-but that's a ways off).
More than 3 webbers eh? We will look into that for sure. And we are all going to train pos gunnery ASAP. |
VegasMirage
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Posted - 2011.09.01 02:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cho Konnit We figured bubbles weren't a good idea because all they will do is help our attackers kill us as we warp in or out.
Our pos is in a c2 with a static c4- we run the c4 sites when enough corpmates are online and the c2 sites otherwise. If we don't like the c4 that spawns we close it and try another.
No one will be attacking with a cap ship and we intend to build at least 2 ourselves (obviously to help defend and maybe help take out the tower that's in here with us-but that's a ways off).
More than 3 webbers eh? We will look into that for sure. And we are all going to train pos gunnery ASAP.
NO! Not webbers, Scrams and Disrupts moar of them lots moar otherwise you will get people warping in to test your defenses for fun (also)
When I lived in wh space (for like 9 months) I had 8 active accounts and ran (3) C3's at the same time, 5 of my accounts the mains were Hulk/Gas Miners with the alt slots doing PI and Pos Gunnery, so all 3 slots taken up. Was epic income man, I could clear a gas cloud in less time than the sleepers would spawn and do a C320/540 cloud in less than 30 minutes (700 mill every 30 minutes).
The point being, use all slots you need more generalist training than specialized training in a wh environment. Imagine what 5 POS gunners can do with level 4 that's 20 POS mods controlled at once. It would be near impossible to take the hole without massive losses, proly more than its worth tbh.
About your plan to use Caps in your wh, I suggest you never bring them out (dont leave them floating about) they attract people like me, I'll drop a scanner alt in your wormhole for 6 months to get a cap kill. If you use them, then make sure they're properly supported and never bring them to the wh static unless you've properly scouted all exits.
Oh and I can find most if not all wormholes if determined, character locator FTW people get sloppy, try and never contract your bookmarks in the system of your new static, if I know your scout I can check his contracts and see "bookmarks" been contracted. Preventive Security measures is 99% of enjoying your experience in wormholes imo.
Goodluck!
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Cho Konnit
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Posted - 2011.09.01 03:51:00 -
[25]
We have at least 2 of each scram/disrupt but you say we should have more? And how many to keep online at a time?
We are kinda new to wh life and yeah i can see being able to do a lot of different things being useful. All our corp members are branching out into other fields. I finally gave in and started doing PI (wh PI is very worth while I am told). A couple of us can mine pretty well, we can all do PI to some extent and being able to fly a tengu to do the c4 sites is a no-brainer.
The only time the cap ships will ever be undocked is for defensive purposes only. That's until we grow enough balls/have enough isk to play around with them.
8 accounts? We don't even have 8 corp members! But we are growing slowly and hopefully making more pos fuel than we are buying.
Thanks for the tips. I was wondering, the more I read up on wh life/tactics in general, the more I think our first pos (the one that went boom) was a preconceived attack and not just a last minute act by some guys who happened upon us. What are the odds? |
VegasMirage
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Posted - 2011.09.01 04:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Cho Konnit We have at least 2 of each scram/disrupt but you say we should have more? And how many to keep online at a time?
We are kinda new to wh life and yeah i can see being able to do a lot of different things being useful. All our corp members are branching out into other fields. I finally gave in and started doing PI (wh PI is very worth while I am told). A couple of us can mine pretty well, we can all do PI to some extent and being able to fly a tengu to do the c4 sites is a no-brainer.
The only time the cap ships will ever be undocked is for defensive purposes only. That's until we grow enough balls/have enough isk to play around with them.
8 accounts? We don't even have 8 corp members! But we are growing slowly and hopefully making more pos fuel than we are buying.
Thanks for the tips. I was wondering, the more I read up on wh life/tactics in general, the more I think our first pos (the one that went boom) was a preconceived attack and not just a last minute act by some guys who happened upon us. What are the odds?
If you're disciplined in your activities you can make a ton of isk. Means with the c4 satic DO NOT mine anything but Ark, never ever do it. Not worth it. Be careful which gas sites you mine, only mine c32/c28 and c320 and c540 nothing else. Do reactions in wh if you can huge isk return when you harvest gas yourself use a dual reactor set up and you can make 160 mill a day fairly passive. ALWAYS scan your exits and have a probe out to check for new exits. If an exit opens i made it mandatory all warp back to POS. Always spam static mapper and take account of all ships in/out of your wh.
PI in wh is the most profitable I believe and depends on your system planets. It's worth it in wh space. you can make your fuels (except for ice products) with like 2 accounts - tip when picking up or dropping off PI materials always start aligning to your next destination before you drop or pick up mat'ls. SB's love picking off indys doing PI.
If you have a hi sec static you should never lose a ship at the entrance, always drop into the wormhole wait your session timer and then re-approach the wh, then align to your POS and at 75% but before you're out of 5,000 meter range from exit go ahead and warp. If anything appears click on the exit button, watch your timer so you don't get trapped.
Ok last tip, if you wanna enjoy wh space make friends not enemies, never smack talk in local NEVER dare people to mess with you or "find me" in my wh. They will. I've dropped scouts in wh's for 6-7 months at a time waiting for revenge for something silly done to me or a friend. Also, PvP is fun if you kill somebody next door you better close your exit. best to scan down route and kill peeps.
Ah, and you guy should get with a wormhole alliance. Larger the better, and see if they have a mutual asset protection program, so when you do get siege'd you have some help, why not right?
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