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Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.01 18:40:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Do your slaves have their own homes?
Yes, of course.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Do they have their own families?
Yes, of course.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Are they able to choose their jobs and careers?
Yes, of course.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Do they get something besides "equality" out of it?
Out of what?
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Is there a sense of accomplishing something?
I find that building a house or taking in the harvest after a season's of hard word gives quite an extraordinary sense of accomplishment.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Do they have the chance to pursue a career or life they enjoy rather than one dictated for them?
Yes of course.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Are their kids born to be raised by their parents, as their parents see fit, or are they born to be raised by their parents' Holders?
That depends. The kids are raised by the community. There is no ownership and absolutely dominion of parents of their kids. Unlike some other cultures in which parent have almost complete control over their kids.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Can your slaves quit to pursue a different life path or career choice?
Yes, of course.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross How many generations does a slave's family and relatives have to spend in slavery before they're free to be a family apart from your "guidance" and "direction?"
That is unknown. How many generations does a family have to toil before one of them becomes president? It is unknown. There are no such guarantees in life.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Does a slave own anything apart from what you give them? (Or grant them permission to have?)
Ownership of other things as ultimate expression of freedom. Quite curious that being able to own other things (people, things or animals) is a freedom? Really?
You seem to have a odd view of slavery. One seemingly based on an overactive imagination. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.01 19:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Though, I admit some surprise and suspicion regarding some o' yer answers. How does one quit being a slave and pursue a different career without being released by yer Holder?
Being a slave is not a career path, just like being an adult is not a career path. It is a legal descriptor. Slaves that perform well are awarded with more responsibility, slaves that show certain aptitudes are given specific jobs. One pursues a different career simply by showing skill and excelling at some thing. I certainly not restricting my slaves to scraping rust from the hull when the have the potential to become a skilled engineer. Of course, slaves can't choose to become X, but so can't common citizens. If a common citizen is awful at math, he'll never become an engineer, no matter how fervently he pursues that career.
Originally by: Malcolm Khross Also, I did nay say that possession o' somethin' was the ultimate expression o' freedom, I simply stated that havin' the freedom to own possessions (inanimate objects, not persons) be a freedom that most "working people" enjoy.
I agree there is some lingering influence from our primitive predispositions that causes some people to hoard material things our claim ownership over others as a means to happiness. I personally find spiritual growth more important. It is not what we hold in our hands, but in our hearts that is important a saint once said. Don't you agree?
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.01 21:20:00 -
[3]
Originally by: N'maro Makari
Why not adress the point instead of trying to find a way around it. All justice systems in the cluster are based on the concept that someone is responisble for their actions, i.e. they chose to break the law. The justice system is based upon free will and a person being held accountable for their exercise of it, which means in essence, retribution for crimes committed.
Although such responsibility is not based on agreement or even awareness of the laws broken. The laws are imposed upon anyone coming within the sphere of influence of those with the power to impose these laws.
Justice does not require free will. Justice is if someone gets what law says that he or she deserves. Injustice is if someone gets what the law say he or she doesnĘt deserve or does not get what the law say he or she does deserve. Laws might be unfair, but not unjust.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.02 07:37:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Ston Momaki Yes, isn't just horrible of me to define slavery as mistreatment. How could I do such a terrible thing? How could I take a word like slavery and twist it so horribly to mean something it doesn't. Afterall, everyone knows what a great thing slavery is. Yes, slavery is on our ten top most friendly words list. Let's play word association, shall we?
Cpt. Momaki, please change your tone. This way of arguing does your position no good. I understand you are passionate about the subject, but if you descend into ridicule you will lose a good portion of your audience.
Originally by: Ston Momaki I would like to see just one Amarrian slave holder admit the truth of why you have slaves; for your greedy self interest
Do you honestly think such slavers will even read this thread, let alone take the time to respond in such a way. It is folly to try and convert people at the very opposite of the spectrum with reason alone, as a abolitionist you should target the liberal slave holders and perhap some moderates. You don't need to convince those that there some holders abuse their slaves, they know this, you have to convince them that either they are abusing their slaves, or they are contributing to the abuse of other slaves.
Waving a pitchfork and screaming 'abilition now!' won't get you far among the Amarr, that's more of a Matari approach to problem solving.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.02 16:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ston Momaki
As long as slavery is allowed to continue; as long as the word gradual is used with regard to slavery, nothing will happen.
I'm confused. Are you asking me to stop releasing any slaves until every slave in existence is to be released at once?
Also, you seem to mistaken again about the use of the word injustice. Justice concerns laws. As long as laws and procedures have been obeyed, there can be no injustice. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.02 17:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jason Galente
I decided to look up injustice.
Likely a commoner's dictionary. Or even worse: a Gallentean commoner's dictionary. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr Defensores Fidei Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2011.09.04 10:47:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Thgil Goldcore I just realized I have been trying to debate with someone who has absolutely no interest in me, my culture, or my servants. Not only have you completely misread my intentions Ston, but your ability to completely miss the point is... quite honestly... amazing. My most trusted servant and chief adviser is at a complete loss. I think said something that's akin to... well... it doesn't belong in a place like this.
I sympathize. It seemed an initially fairly open question and debate, and it saddens me to see it degenerate into non-constructive accusations. To me those who oppose slavery *want* those who have slaves to be monsters so that they can yell at the and condemn them with righteous indignation.
A reasoned response forces many to think about why they are really opposing slavery and slavers, and to some of them that is an uncomfortable question they find hard to answer. 'Because slavery is evil' was often the wast and comforting answer, and surrounded by others parroting the same phrase, it is easy to start believing that. I expect abolitionists to think a little bit harder and deeper than that if they want to change anything.
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The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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