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Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2011.08.30 13:03:00 -
[1]
I noticed from the patch notes that nothing is being done about the sheer GPU heat in CQ.
This for me should have been #1 on the list, CQ is literally melting peoples hardware.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.30 13:31:00 -
[2]
Quote: Hilmar says: Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
There you go Though its a shame all those ppl with fried GPUs cant seek recompense or something cause CCP KNOWS by now its their CODE not our computers -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Marchocias
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Posted - 2011.08.30 14:37:00 -
[3]
I know that y'all cannot help being computer illiterate... Your inherent inferiority means that your ignorance is guaranteed.
However, could you PLEASE get it through your thick skulls that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained. If your GPU broke it was the fault of the manufacturer for designing/building it badly... Or it's YOUR fault for not ensuring it was correctly maintained. ---- I like the base. |
Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.30 14:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs I noticed from the patch notes that nothing is being done about the sheer GPU heat in CQ.
This for me should have been #1 on the list, CQ is literally melting peoples hardware.
They fixed the CPU code already and the GPU code isn't broken.
Which is why you're not a software developer, it requires an attention to detail.
Working as intended. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.30 15:13:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 30/08/2011 15:17:02 Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 30/08/2011 15:16:23 Depending on the computer, it's perfectly possible to stress a CPU or a GPU to the point of failure by running hardware-intensive software on it. This is because as processor utilization increases, that processor throws off more heat (common sense and basic physics). In theory, a computer's cooling system should be capable of cooling the GPU(s) and CPU(s) to acceptable temperatures even when they are under maximum load. However, most pre-built desktops and virtually all laptops do not have such a cooling system. In fact, laptops are notorious for running hotter under even moderate load compared with their desktop counterparts.
Where temperature exceeds safe levels, the GPU/CPU should automatically reduce voltage, or shut down entirely. However, not all processors have this ability (especially look at 1:10), and not all such systems can react in time. Furthermore, even if a GPU/CPU can continue to operate safely at a high temperature, continuous operation at such temperature will most likely eventually cause it to degrade, at the very least reducing its lifespan, or may damage other computer components.
In practice, this means that end-users do have to pay attention to how hardware-intensive a particular game or program is. So while theoretically it's "impossible" for software to melt a computer, in practice it's very much possible when the user runs software that he does not expect will push his computer to its operating limits.
Edit:
Captain's Quarters is a perfect example of unexpectedly hardware-intensive software. CQ uses significantly more hardware resources than the old hangar view, and more resources than a typical space scene, given the same general graphics settings. This means that running CQ on relatively high settings could unexpectedly 'melt' a computer if that computer was already running near its limit in terms of temperature levels when rendering the in-space portion of the game.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.30 15:25:00 -
[6]
Funny given even they realize theres an issue an thats WHY theres a stickie on it
but you all wont realize that, keep defending bois :D -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Forum Worrier
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Posted - 2011.08.30 15:43:00 -
[7]
/facepalm
Some people should stick to console gaming, or if you're content to be an ignorant luddite, buy a mac.
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Yseri
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marchocias I know that y'all cannot help being computer illiterate... Your inherent inferiority means that your ignorance is guaranteed.
However, could you PLEASE get it through your thick skulls that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained. If your GPU broke it was the fault of the manufacturer for designing/building it badly... Or it's YOUR fault for not ensuring it was correctly maintained.
Actually, on the contrary. Yoy can easily fry your properly cooled graphics card. Although not the GPU itself, most graphic cards are known to fry their PWMs in some situations, most notably when framerate exceeds 1000 fps, which is easily achievable, for example in menus or during pre-rendered cutscenes if the framelimiter is not properly implemented (or not implemented at all). This is because GPU power draw peaks at a certain moment during rendering of each frame, and if the peaks match (more or less) the PWM working frequency which is usually between 1-1.5kHz, the power regulators start to resonate and can burn in seconds or miliseconds if frequencies are a close match, faster than temperature protection can kick in.
This, however, doesn't apply to Eve, since it has a working framelimiter. If anyone burned a GPU with Eve, it was probably because of heatsink clogged with dust and GPU working close to thermal limit for too long. But don't call people illiterate when clearly you could do much to expand your own knowledge.
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Marchocias I know that y'all cannot help being computer illiterate... Your inherent inferiority means that your ignorance is guaranteed.
However, could you PLEASE get it through your thick skulls that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained. If your GPU broke it was the fault of the manufacturer for designing/building it badly... Or it's YOUR fault for not ensuring it was correctly maintained.
You mean you can't stick dual GPUs in the "Sunday Superstore Special" with stock cooling?
I love how all these people complain heat, but when you ask about cooling they won't list what they have
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Forum Worrier
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:56:00 -
[10]
I'm still amazed at the level of ignorance surrounding pc cooling and its benefits.
On visiting friends houses I've seen cases filled with caked on gunk, some have even tried to tell me it doesn't matter and is too much of a hassle to vac out.
Friends who position their fans so they're all blowing inwards. "The fan cools it by blowing on it!".
SLI setups in cheap $50 cases with one fan.
This is my basic gaming rig, and I'll go to sleep soundly with both clients idling in CQ at max settings.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:01:00 -
[11]
Well its funny, Ive been here since 2006, running 2 clients at once, clean out the inside of the computer regularly, and till THIS BUILD have never had heat issues with any game Ive played EXCEPT THIS ONE
That doesnt say to me that its my ignorance on how heat works that tells me this client is working my computer harder, as the computer is clean. It has a stock cooling system (or whatever it was when the computer was built when I bought it), it has a Radeon ATI 4650 HD video card. But before you scream AHA THERE IT IZZZZ!!!!!
Note the part where Id ALREADY SAID this is the ONLY GAME IVE EVER RUN and ONLY IN THIS NEW BUILD thats caused heat issues. Ive run this game previously without heat issues. Two clients, no problems. BUT NOW there is. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Marchocias
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:16:00 -
[12]
I did say properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained...
I made damn sure to do this, because without that sentence I'd technically be wrong. With it, I'm irrefutably correct. ---- I like the base. |
Zenith Intaki
Gallente Zenith Intaki Tech
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs I noticed from the patch notes that nothing is being done about the sheer GPU heat in CQ.
This for me should have been #1 on the list, CQ is literally melting peoples hardware.
It's not CCP's fault. It's PC companies problem. They throw out products in the market, that can't handle 100% usage since poor cooling system.
Majority of PC's never use their whole power, not GPU, not CPU or RAM, so that's why companies screw you, customers and put poor cooling systems. And why this goes on and on?
BECAUSE NOOBS DON'T CARE ABOUT COOLING THEIR COMPUTERS!
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:33:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 30/08/2011 17:34:20 It's partially CCP's fault. CQ is much more resource intensive than the rest of the game at comparable settings. Most folk wouldn't expect a non-optional (a check-box buried in the ESC menu doesn't really make a function like CQ truly optional, at least initially) expansion to increase hardware requirements so significantly.
For example, my laptop runs the in-space portion of the game just fine on mid-range settings, outside of giant fleet fights. But entering CQ with those same settings makes the CPU and GPU temperatures both spike to 70C, and reach 80C within ten to fifteen minutes, despite a clean heatsink, cooling pad, and air conditioning.
Reasonably, I wouldn't have expected a relatively minor expansion to put that much stress on my computer compared with the rest of the game. Keep in mind that the original Classic graphics were not removed from the game for years after Trinity precisely because they required greater system resources, so if anything it would have been reasonable to assume that any content requiring better hardware would be made fully optional.
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Skex Relbore
Gallente Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:38:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zenith Intaki
Originally by: Garak Jakobs I noticed from the patch notes that nothing is being done about the sheer GPU heat in CQ.
This for me should have been #1 on the list, CQ is literally melting peoples hardware.
It's not CCP's fault. It's PC companies problem. They throw out products in the market, that can't handle 100% usage since poor cooling system.
Majority of PC's never use their whole power, not GPU, not CPU or RAM, so that's why companies screw you, customers and put poor cooling systems. And why this goes on and on?
BECAUSE NOOBS DON'T CARE ABOUT COOLING THEIR COMPUTERS!
No program should use 100% of any systems resources on a constant basis. If they do that's a sign of **** poor programming. Why? Because it doesn't matter how good a cooling system you have on your PC there is only so much heat that can be moved off a component.
Now I don't know whether or not Incarna is actually frying GPU's I know that while mine are performing within spec for temperature the new client is ridiculously resource intensive.
Even though I am running a more than adequate rig with acceptable cooling I still ended up turning off the CQ due to how much running it degraded my system performance.
You simply cannot run it at acceptable settings if you run more than a single client.
I ended up having to get a second video card to run my secondary monitor and for my additional accounts in order to continue doing running my little mining op while PVPing on my main account.
Even with this the performance compared to what existed before is just horrible.
Oh and to be quite frank for all that resource utilization the environment and avatar still look like **** that could have been released 10 years ago.
BTW what's the point of working with NVidia to use Physx if you aren't going to provide the option to offload that work to the physx optimized GPU?
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Hicksimus
Gallente Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Hicksimus on 30/08/2011 17:39:39
Originally by: Zenith Intaki
Originally by: Garak Jakobs I noticed from the patch notes that nothing is being done about the sheer GPU heat in CQ.
This for me should have been #1 on the list, CQ is literally melting peoples hardware.
It's not CCP's fault. It's PC companies problem. They throw out products in the market, that can't handle 100% usage since poor cooling system.
Majority of PC's never use their whole power, not GPU, not CPU or RAM, so that's why companies screw you, customers and put poor cooling systems. And why this goes on and on?
BECAUSE NOOBS DON'T CARE ABOUT COOLING THEIR COMPUTERS!
This is very true, it's like when people where blaming that benchmarking program for their Ati 4850's and some Nvidia cards cooking because the card itself was poorly designed and couldn't actually supply its own parts with the power needed.
CQ causes a high GPU load for sure, but my GTX460 still only ever made it to 57 celcius that's about 3 degrees lower than it gets to in Metro 2033. Though Metro also looks a metric ****ton better.
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Hicksimus CQ causes a high GPU load for sure, but my GTX460 still only ever made it to 57 celcius that's about 3 degrees lower than it gets to in Metro 2033. Though Metro also looks a metric ****ton better.
And that's the really frustrating part. CQ looks "okay," but nowhere near as awesome as it should considering how resource-intensive it is. I maxed out most of the settings at one point just to see what the CQ looked like, and the avatars still looked like wax mannequins or something out of Hellraiser half the time. CQ might be awesome from a programming perspective, but the end-user result isn't all that great.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:44:00 -
[18]
so.... if its our fault and we're all horrible noobs then why is this the ONLY GAME that causes my rig heat issues? -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Marchocias
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Posted - 2011.08.30 18:25:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Alice Katsuko And that's the really frustrating part. CQ looks "okay," but nowhere near as awesome as it should considering how resource-intensive it is. I maxed out most of the settings at one point just to see what the CQ looked like, and the avatars still looked like wax mannequins or something out of Hellraiser half the time. CQ might be awesome from a programming perspective, but the end-user result isn't all that great.
Indeed. I will concede that it is very heavy on resources, given that the result is only "quite nice... ish". ---- I like the base. |
Garak Jakobs
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:11:00 -
[20]
Alot of people here saying stuff about poorly cooled systems. This isnt the case for me, my I7 is water cooled but I'm running a backup card right now because my good one died some time ago. My 8800 series card climbs to 70C idling in CQ..
My PC is custom built and has crazy good airflow but what brought me to making this post is that even such intense games such as
Crysis Farcry
Do not bring the levels of heat on full load that CQ does, which for me is absolute crazy.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:17:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs Alot of people here saying stuff about poorly cooled systems. This isnt the case for me, my I7 is water cooled but I'm running a backup card right now because my good one died some time ago. My 8800 series card climbs to 70C idling in CQ..
My PC is custom built and has crazy good airflow but what brought me to making this post is that even such intense games such as
Crysis Farcry
Do not bring the levels of heat on full load that CQ does, which for me is absolute crazy.
The 8800 was known to do that before CQ howerver.
Its why I have a 430 and not an 8800 anymore. . Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:17:00 -
[22]
Optimizations? What optimizations? Look, CCP has moved on, mmmkay?
As for the chips without heat protection circuits, that linked youtube is comparing a P4 to a Athlon XP+. AMD now has protections built into the CPU. Although I will concede that GPU, to my knowledge do not have such protections. Also, even though the CPU may be able to protect itself that doesn't mean that the heat generated won't damage other components in close proximity.
If your afraid to run your system at 100% cpu utilization then I suggest you add better & more cooling, pure and simple. Places to do so are the chassis, cpu, gpu, chipsets, psu. Get the heat out fast enough and you won't have a problem.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:29:00 -
[23]
press esc go to display uncheck the "load station environment" setting this fixes almost all the CQ bugs i got, but the station hanger won't load anymore Eve online next expansion details |
Not-Apsalar
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Garak Jakobs Alot of people here saying stuff about poorly cooled systems. This isnt the case for me, my I7 is water cooled but I'm running a backup card right now because my good one died some time ago. My 8800 series card climbs to 70C idling in CQ..
My PC is custom built and has crazy good airflow but what brought me to making this post is that even such intense games such as
Crysis Farcry
Do not bring the levels of heat on full load that CQ does, which for me is absolute crazy.
There is no Prime95 for GPUs, unfortunately, but you can use rthdribl. It's probably the best tool for the job. http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/
Technically speaking, it's a hardware/hardware environment issue. While CCP's programming might be the cause by virtue of load, they operate within the parameters of the language and APIs that they have. I use air cooling on my 5770 and my card rarely reaches past ~69c. Of course, operating parameters for the 5770 have a max temp around 100c.
This fits within the findings from a techspot review on the 5770 done a while back: The dual slot cooler of the Radeon HD 5770 made little noise even when under load. We recorded a stress GPU temperature of 74 degrees, which is fairly low by today's standards. The idle temperature of 47 degrees was average, with many other GPUs operating cooler at idle. Still, far from a bad result
Your 8800 is similar. nV cards have a thermal shutdown around 125. Over 110c is more or less where it starts to throttle down to protect itself. 70c is a safe operating temp. The same site that reviewed the 5770 found a load temp of 83c with the 8800 GTS. Ultimately, I think that you're overreacting.
And, for the record, you don't "idle" in a 3d environment. It is not a still picture. It is generating all those polygons and using all those shaders 100% of the time.
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Rhinanna
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:35:00 -
[25]
Wait, people are actually saying that software melts their hardware?
Seriously?
The only way to cause hardware damage via software is via software overclocking, EVE does not do this.
If you are having heat problems then as said above, sort out your cooling. If your system is running properly then on any game were you aren't hitting the max frame-rate limit then your system SHOULD be running at fairly close to max potential anyway. The only reason it wouldn't be is if parts of the system aren't been used or if the game you are running is poorly optimised.
On my machine, with all the features turned to full, there is no temperature difference on EvE, Dawn of War 2, Star Craft 2(Makes my CPU run hotter cos more cores running) and thats it. World of Tanks leaves my GPU much cooler and only uses 1 CPU core, but thats simply because its a very poorly optimised game.
Also, against popular belief, temperatures of 150c + are actually no problem for most modern CPUs and GPUs, the problem is that you get hot-spots inside the chips of metal-melting/gate popping temperatures, the higher the base temperature the more likely you are to get one of these and even a single spec of dust inside when the chip is manufactured can cause this, hence the very strict conditions under which they are made. This is why every chip dies eventually, well with the possible exception of chips under liquid nitrogen cooling constantly ;)
At the end of the day, if your setup is having a problem with the temperatures at 100% usage, there are several options open to you.
1: Improve your cooling. More fans are NOT always better. You need through-flow, over the cpu and gpu and FSB. Heat-sinks on these components help(draws the heat to be more accessible to the air-flow)
2: Under-clock your over-heating components. This will prevent overheats, you won't actually lose any performance here if you do it right, since you are effectively setting your 100% performance max to the level at which your cooling can handle.
3: Buy components which don't run at stupidly high weight under full load. Certain ATI cards in particular are known for been 'egg friers'. Review your hardware before purchasing.
Hope that helps -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:49:00 -
[26]
so I have yet to see an answer to why this game causes heat issues when no other does.
you can bang on about the cooling issues but if there was a heat issue, wouldnt that issue be present in every game you play then?
Or are you saying that the cooling system is just choosing to stop when I open EVE -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Tikera Tissant
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Posted - 2011.08.30 20:54:00 -
[27]
If your GPU is overheating or even close to it, you are doing something wrong, and most likely your own computer isn't optimized for any heavy gaming regarding air cooling.
Even if CQ is heavy, it doesn't stress the GPU that much. If its over-heating, your computer air flow, is just bad.
I'm running a client in almost full details at 1080p on a crappy i3-540 with 2GB of memory, and a gtx465 (one of the worst and hottest GPUs you can find), and it runs perfectly smooth, and far from being very hot. It doesn't stress the GPU as much as its just inefficient rendering wise.
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Herping yourDerp
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Posted - 2011.08.30 22:16:00 -
[28]
just turn it off. its simple, CQ is a resource hog, games from 5 years ago look better then CQ but CQ takes 10 times the gfx/cpu power to run it. Eve online next expansion details |
Ager Agemo
Caldari Care Factor
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Posted - 2011.08.30 22:56:00 -
[29]
didn't actually blizzard burned a lot of graphic cards due to faulty programming on sc2? and they did took responsability about it, trying to protect CCP on this case is meaningless since there is already a precedent on game companies where faulty code did burn hardware, now software CAN burn pieces, overclocking hardware for example can overvolt or set frequencies why beyond what the hardware was intended to run at, despite the manufacturers caution on setting it on reasonable limits, now obviusly EVe online dosn't do this, but FACT is, my computer runs crysis way better and faster at FULL graphics than captain quarters, despite the former having way superior graphics, which means the coding in CQ is just not good enought, period. argue all you want, facts are facts, CCP must fix their game, and if they were a reasonable company they would replace the burned video cards.
On the cooling issue, i use several aftermarket coolers on a proper full tower Case, video card with aftermarket cooler and well greased and clean, yet i have been able to reach up to 100 ŚC YES enought to fry an adjacent network card, but the video card wasn't damaged, a very rare case that only happened on eve online, fortunately my card manufacturer makes some really hardcore hardware and it has proven to be rather durable. (can't say the same of my PSU supplier... i have burned 5 700 watts PSU in the last year)
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Kaethe Kollwitz
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Posted - 2011.08.30 23:32:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Marchocias I know that y'all cannot help being computer illiterate... Your inherent inferiority means that your ignorance is guaranteed.
However, could you PLEASE get it through your thick skulls that it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained. If your GPU broke it was the fault of the manufacturer for designing/building it badly... Or it's YOUR fault for not ensuring it was correctly maintained.
****in sick of morons like you.
my PC plays everything at high everything. My (noisy) GPU fan rarely comes on unless ambient temps are high. the instant I dock into a CQ environment my GPU fan starts. What does this suggest to you?
control groups: all general PC use including watching tv: no GPU fan high level gaming at full settings including cod series, crysis: no GPU fan Eve online, in space: no GPU fan CQ: immediate GPU fan switch on.
In this experiment I have identified CQ as the reason my GPU fan comes on, indicating that CQ causes my GPU to heat up significantly more than ANY OTHER SINGLE THING i do on my PC.
my PC has a windows experience rating of 7.8 and is cleaned and maintained regularily due to the fact its built in a bookcase in my front room.
****ing moron.
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Rhinanna
Minmatar Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.31 00:07:00 -
[31]
Quote: didn't actually blizzard burned a lot of graphic cards due to faulty programming on sc2? and they did took responsability about it
Was bad programming yes, however the reason ALL graphics cards that played SC2 didn't burn out was simply because most graphics cards have protection against this well known problem. Its been around since the beginning of computing. Hell, we used to write viruses in the old days that caused the spin speed of people's HDDs to be set to it's max level so that their HDD motor melted or the disc crashed into the head.
Modern hardware is built to be immune to this. Also as far as I can tell, Blizzard have not admitted any fault or replaced any graphics card. They have verified the bug exists but not that they were responsible for any hardware damage.
The CQ problem however is simply that it tries to achieve a higher framerate than most hardware can achieve, so runs the hardware at 100%. This should be fine for all hardware if you have sufficient cooling.
Quote: my PC plays everything at high everything. My (noisy) GPU fan rarely comes on unless ambient temps are high. the instant I dock into a CQ environment my GPU fan starts. What does this suggest to you?
That your GPU is running at 100%. Thats all. If you computer doesn't do this in other modern games, I'd look at why your graphics card isn't using anywhere near it's full capacity in those games.
Also I'm calling bull**** on the rest of it, given the latest top end graphics card only make 20fps on full top settings on some of the latest games, even running them SLI doesn't bump it up that much, I very much doubt that you ARE running the latest games on all top settings without it doing this, unless you are running it in a low resolution or something like that(which isn't top settings), certainly not without the graphics card running up to 100%, which is all CQ does.
Oh and btw, I'm not defending CCP, I really dislike CQ, however I dislike ignorance more.
-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.31 00:14:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Spurty on 31/08/2011 00:14:48 As a gamer I run the latest systems.
Runs fine for me on my current system. When that was encrypting a hard drive, I tried on the wifes machine (my last years model type hand me down).
Oh boy, sucks to be playing on 2010 technology
People stuck with gear older than that, I see what you're all moaning about now.
>.<
Corker of a typo but now fixed :-)
If I didn't have kids, would donate to someone geographically close and low income.
Meet CCP Rick Roller |
Forum Worrier
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:34:00 -
[33]
Quote: There is no Prime95 for GPUs, unfortunately, but you can use rthdribl. It's probably the best tool for the job. http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/
Check out Furmark. Commonly used to test overclocks for stability and setup fan profiles.
Quote: so I have yet to see an answer to why this game causes heat issues when no other does. you can bang on about the cooling issues but if there was a heat issue, wouldnt that issue be present in every game you play then?
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
Quote: ****in sick of morons like you. my PC plays everything at high everything. My (noisy) GPU fan rarely comes on unless ambient temps are high. the instant I dock into a CQ environment my GPU fan starts. What does this suggest to you? control groups: all general PC use including watching tv: no GPU fan high level gaming at full settings including cod series, crysis: no GPU fan Eve online, in space: no GPU fan CQ: immediate GPU fan switch on. In this experiment I have identified CQ as the reason my GPU fan comes on, indicating that CQ causes my GPU to heat up significantly more than ANY OTHER SINGLE THING i do on my PC. my PC has a windows experience rating of 7.8 and is cleaned and maintained regularily due to the fact its built in a bookcase in my front room. ****ing moron.
Terribly sorry old chap, but you're the moron. You're quoting a guy stating "it is IMPOSSIBLE for ccps code to have fried any GPU that was properly designed, manufactured, installed and maintained" and your argument is that OMG CQ makes my gpu fan turn on!?!
We all acknowledge the fact that CQ is poorly optimised and loads up the GPU. That your computer cannot handle a program that actually uses your GPU to its full potential is another issue entirely.
It'd be like buying a Ferrari and not being able to go over 50mph without the engine overheating, instead of blaming the City Council for building long straight roads, you'd realise that something was wrong with the car.
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.31 02:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.
-------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.31 02:25:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 31/08/2011 02:26:21 On the bright side, in two years no-one will really care much about Incarna using excessive hardware resources due to improvements in hardware. So perhaps CCP is simply ahead of the curve.
On note slightly more relevant to the threat topic:
Basically, CCP isn't responsible for melted graphics cards because those cards would've melted anyway due to poor cooling or design, but the CQ does appear to be poorly optimized.
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Denidil
Gallente Rape Pillage and Burn
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Posted - 2011.08.31 03:19:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Quote: Hilmar says: Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
There you go Though its a shame all those ppl with fried GPUs cant seek recompense or something cause CCP KNOWS by now its their CODE not our computers
actually it is a little bit of both. CQ is putting a lot of load on them, and it's toasting ****ty cards.
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Tikera Tissant
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Posted - 2011.08.31 03:22:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.
Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.
GPUs can easily handle 100% load as long as you have adequate cooling and good air-flow in your case, and ambiance temps are not way too high.
If your GPU is over-heating, its your own problem. There are tons of games out there that can push GPUs to 100% easy. Metro 2011, crysis 2 in DX11, mafia 2, dirt 3 and many other games.
Download and run furmark for 4-5 minutes. That will give you a clue at what GPU should be able to handle without any problems. If its over heating, you are doing something wrong.
If you always want to keep GPUs at low temps, get the very best GPU and run the game with lowest settings. Problem solved.
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What Isdees
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Posted - 2011.08.31 03:22:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Denidil
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Quote: Hilmar says: Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say.
There you go Though its a shame all those ppl with fried GPUs cant seek recompense or something cause CCP KNOWS by now its their CODE not our computers
actually it is a little bit of both. CQ is putting a lot of load on them, and it's toasting ****ty cards.
Darwinian software code?
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.31 03:24:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.
Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.
k, whats demanding? Crysis, full graphics? No issues
What else? -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Tikera Tissant
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Posted - 2011.08.31 04:09:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.
Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.
k, whats demanding? Crysis, full graphics? No issues
What else?
I'm running 3 clients without any lag even when all 3 characters sit in CQ. No issues, no over-heat, no problems, full details at 1080p. You are doing something wrong if you claim its burning your GPU.
Putting your GPU in a case without decent cooling is like sticking your hand in a hot oven and claiming its hot in there, so it must be broken.
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Kengutsi Akira
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Posted - 2011.08.31 04:16:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tikera Tissant blaming the user not the code again
funny given he's stated he plays other games without issues....
but in this one case there IS an issue. what youre experiencing is also moot unless you run another game where you do have heat issues yet you dont have them here. Fail troll ------------------------------------ "You know, my foot oughta vandilize your ass" |
Simetraz
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Posted - 2011.08.31 04:20:00 -
[42]
I don't know about a optimization but I did bother to log on to the test server in the last week and see what was happening.
Frame rates in CQ went from 30 FPS to a solid 60 FPS (interval one) don't care about anything above that. Run AMD and ATI.
So they did something, have no idea what though. |
Hicksimus
Gallente Mom's Friendly Spaceship Company
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Posted - 2011.08.31 04:20:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Tikera Tissant
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Forum Worrier
Inadequate cooling is the cause of your heat issue. CQ can only make your GPU run at high loads. If your GPU running at high loads is causing a heat issue then take a guess at what the problem is.
lol so youre telling me theres a cooling issue ONLY IN THIS GAME hey, thanks for backing me up on that one. Glad we agree.
Maybe because you don't really play any demanding games.
k, whats demanding? Crysis, full graphics? No issues
What else?
I also get much higher fps in Crysis so your point is that something less stressful causes your card to make less heat which seems logical but with the tone of the thread you seem to be suggesting something ******ed with your results......
Almost nothing is as demanding as CQ for some reason, as I mentioned before Metro 2033 can push harder but it's also in a much larger space and IMO looks better and has more going on.
I've serviced nearly 2000 computers in the past few years and let me show you a trend with people and computer problems..... I install the latest version of Adobe Acrobat Reader and sometimes forget to delete the desktop icon.....3 users have gone home and then called me to tell me I ruined their computer because when they click the icon all they get is a grey screen. Did I ruin their computer? Nope they just wanted to blame me for their own stupidity. I've had many users say they downloaded a program and then everything went wrong so it must be a virus. (issues such as no power lights, constant checkdisk on startup, lines on their screen) These are all broken hardware issues but they remain skeptical of my proposed solutions and causes out of wanting to be right without having a clue. I had one person tell me I ruined their computer because when they got it back they'd keep losing their video input, after 3 visits and a week and a half of arguing I got their monitor in the shop and found they had stuck a metallic sticker over top of the input button with their grand children and it was on their touch sensitive samsung monitor so it kept switching inputs when humidity was high! Afterward they wanted a refund because I didn't fix their issue earlier.
The bottom line is that there are a lot of factors affecting your hardware and when something goes wrong it's usually not related to the very last thing that changed. Got a 5 year old performance graphics card that just went pop? Yeah it's a 5 year old room heater it broke down it wasn't some poor code that ate it. It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari and if you are like almost every person out there the way you have treated that GPU is poorly. As far as maintenance and I'd bet you can guess what poorly maintained 30 year old Ferrari's do when you jam them around a race track for 3 hours...
Anybody had a brand new GPU die in CQ yet? Specifically from excessive heat and have pictures plus a copy of your RMA?
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.31 04:31:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 04:32:52
Originally by: Hicksimus It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari
k, for it to actually be equivalent, its a 30 year old ferrari that only on this one really hilly road that causes it to work harder it overheats
and note the part where I said "I do clean inside the case regularly" theres no dust in there. Funny ppl seem to gloss over stuff like that when its inconvenient to their cause
The fan on my card is working fine, all the fans in my case are working fine. Running ONE GAME makes my computer heat up but youre all saying "well **** you have a ****ty computer you stupid noob"
yeah lol you keep thinking that. An if theres anything wrong with my tone its cause thats whats been being said for I dont know how many pages now. ppl would rather blame the user than the game.
Cuse Im the only person having this issue right? Thats why theres a sticky about it. -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Jack Rips
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Posted - 2011.08.31 05:10:00 -
[45]
Would it not be a good idea to perhaps give us all some bloody feedback. For the love of god ccp wake the frack up.
I for one am sick to death of logging on to a broken game and logging in to a forum thats kicking the game i love to death, and makeing ccp look like greedey bankers who take take and take from there loyal players.
You are letting us down, and your letting eve down.
This has been more than a bad year for eve so far, pull up your socks and start to do somthing about it!. Reply to posts, don't let the topics get full of ****e like this before you bother to give us a reply. for want of a better word ccp "frustrated!" you fracking bet i am.
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Tikera Tissant
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Posted - 2011.08.31 05:11:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung Edited by: Sullen Skoung on 31/08/2011 04:32:52
Originally by: Hicksimus It's the equivalent of a 30 year old Ferrari
k, for it to actually be equivalent, its a 30 year old ferrari that only on this one really hilly road that causes it to work harder it overheats
and note the part where I said "I do clean inside the case regularly" theres no dust in there. Funny ppl seem to gloss over stuff like that when its inconvenient to their cause
The fan on my card is working fine, all the fans in my case are working fine. Running ONE GAME makes my computer heat up but youre all saying "well **** you have a ****ty computer you stupid noob"
yeah lol you keep thinking that. An if theres anything wrong with my tone its cause thats whats been being said for I dont know how many pages now. ppl would rather blame the user than the game.
Cuse Im the only person having this issue right? Thats why theres a sticky about it.
Clean case and working fans doesn't mean anything. Low CFM fans, how ambiance temps, cables sticking out everywhere inside, HDDs blocking the air and so on, is what causing high temps.
Also there is nothing wrong with setting the fan to 100%. Its what its ment to do. GPUs are built to run at close to max temps with fan at 100% for a long time as long as there is good air flow and the ambiance temps are decent.
Also you are still stuck in the notion that if your fan runs at 100% it means the GPU is overheating. Its not. If it overheats, it shut down. GPUs can run up and sometimes over 100c. Basic fan profiles are ment to keep the fan low until around 70-80c, and then it will boost the fan to 80% or up to 100% to keep it below the max temps. Its fine. You are just panicing.
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Tikera Tissant
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Posted - 2011.08.31 05:18:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ager Agemo didn't actually blizzard burned a lot of graphic cards due to faulty programming on sc2?
About that, not really. Blizzard made GPUs run at 2000fps at the loading screen because they kept refreshing it. Its a 2D image. It was fixed by a patch from GPU companies.
It never burned graphics cards. That notion was put in as headlines, and not as an actual fact. Its like a headline saying "the sun can melts planets!" and than go on telling about how hot it was yesterday.
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Vawd
Caldari Tax Evasion Ltd
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:14:00 -
[48]
My cards just got nuked, not sure if it was this game that did it. I had plenty of airflow into and out of the case. Using an Antec 1200
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129043
3 Front 120mm intake fans 2 Rear 120mm exhaust fans 1 Top 200mm exhaust fan and a side intake fan, prob 150mm.
Was using a set of factory overclocked BFG 260GTX, huge mothereffin cards that impede the **** out of airflow. It's just as well though that they got nuked, my new GTX550 ti from ASUS is 3/4ths the size, requires half the power and runs a lot cooler, all while providing better graphics.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:10:00 -
[49]
CQ is quite funny, I can play World of Tanks for hours and the fans are idle in the computer, as soon as I enter CQ the GPU fans spin up a lot.
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Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2011.08.31 14:18:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 31/08/2011 14:20:35 ...bad programming...
The CQ problem however is simply that it tries to achieve a higher framerate than most hardware can achieve, so runs the hardware at 100%. This should be fine for all hardware if you have sufficient cooling.
That your GPU is running at 100%. Thats all.
Unfortunately, the quality of the CQ is not exactly impressive. There are games out there with much more impressive environments that require much less GPU utilization. So, we can chalk this up to poor programming.
Why CCP doesn't make optimizing their rendering engine a priority is beyond me. There is absolutely no reason aesthetically that the CQ in it's current state should run hardware at 100% utilization. None. The facts that it does and there is nothing more enticing than a couch provides little incentive for people to use it.
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