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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.30 15:29:00 -
[1]
Now, beeing a proper ******, i thought i'd make a topic asking what you fine forum users think about this lil' topic of mine.
Looking at wormholes i found myself looking at ship mass/volumes and noticed something rather interesting regarding relative size and volume.
Using Amarr as an example:
Executioner - 28k Volume
Omen - 118k Volume (makes sense, it is about 3-4 times larger)
Armageddon - 486k (Makes sense, its arguably 4 times larger than the Omen)
Then you turn of your sense of logic:
Archon - 14m Volume (this is not just 2times more volume {space] but 28 times more, yet the ships are fairly equal in size)
Aeon - 62m Volume (Again, this is 6x times more [space] than the Archon, yet the ship is arguably at MOST 1.5 times larger) <Imo Aeon = 1x Archon + 1x Archon fliped on the side>
how can a ship take up 6 times more space, yet be the same size?
Avatar - 155m Volume (Now, how many Aeons do you need to stack to create the relative size of an Avatar In-Game?)
Now some of you will obiously be stupid and say BUT THAT SHIP IS LARGER D:
Yes, i know how large the ships are in-game, the "volume" i'm looking at is the stuff u see when you "show info" and you see "volume of ship = X (XxX repacked)"
On a sidenote: Archon - 1mill Mass Avatar - 2mill mass <3 CCP be trollin' ?
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Vincent Athena
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:08:00 -
[2]
It gets worse. An Obelisk has a cargo of a little less than 1 million, but a total volume of 15 million. The model of it makes it look like its mostly cargo volume, but actually only 7% of it is cargo.
A 50 cu m module can cover a battleship with a 1.6 meter thick layer of armor. Hows that work?
Then there is the entire "mineral compression" issue. Reprocessing a gun increases the volume of material by a factor of 30? What is tritatium, Styrofoam?
The sizes and volumes in this game are all messed up.
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:23:00 -
[3]
silly obelisk, 1/20th of the ship's volume utelized for its frighting purpose. thats like the trunk of a ****ty compact car in comparison
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:25:00 -
[4]
Don't forget that containers are 20% bigger on the inside than the outside.
In other news, Doctor Who helped design Eve?
----- CCP's NeX Pricing Tiers Affordable: One PLEX Mid: 3-4 PLEX Deluxe: Only for "flamboyantly rich capsuleers" Exceptional: ?? |
asdcvf Anneto
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:28:00 -
[5]
Originally by: stoicfaux Don't forget that containers are 20% bigger on the inside than the outside.
In other news, Doctor Who helped design Eve?
Makes perfect sense!!
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2011.08.30 16:38:00 -
[6]
Sigil: 440m long axis Giant Secure Container: 440m long axis
You can put three of the latter into the former.
Abaddon: 800m long axis Yet it only has a piddly cargo bay of 10.5 x 10 x 5 meters
Even better: Bestower: 700 long axis Cargo area of this transport specialized ship: 25 x 20 x 30 meters
Volumes and sizes don't make any sense in EVE. --------
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.30 17:23:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Jax Mones on 30/08/2011 17:23:44 now if only i could put a GSC inside a GSC, my life would be perfect
Edit: I CAN SEE FOREVER!!1
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William Cooly
Sol Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:22:00 -
[8]
Edited by: William Cooly on 30/08/2011 19:23:09 I like how everyone assumes that, if a spaceship were to be designed, the cargo bay would be taking up the most space. Not the internal mechanisms and crews that drive the incredibly advanced machines we're flying, no. Just cargo space.
Even freighters. You think that massive rack of engines on the Obelisk just disappears inside? It's hooked up to a probably massive power source, as well as the engines themselves probably only being 20% actually outside the ship. Add that to aforementioned internal mechanisms, which also probably have to be scaled up to manage the larger ship, and you're probably lucky to squeeze in that much cargo space. Hell, it'd make sense for those Tardis mechanisms to be hard at work in there, because it'd explain how we get better at stretching the cargo space as we skill up. Our brains get more in tune with the space-bending device.
And before you mention that it should just be made smaller to need less maintenance, it's the Elephant Effect. The size increases radically to build up an essential attribute that only takes up a small percentage of that space to function.
EDIT: You know what else supports the Tardis devices inside the ships? The fact that we can't put cargo containers in it. Just like we can't put a cargo container in a cargo container because they both have space-bending things too. -
I troll stupid people. |
Marchocias
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Posted - 2011.08.30 19:33:00 -
[9]
The trouble is, if they make everything scaled like it should be, they have a fair amount of work to do.
1) All the ships would need to be reskinned, to add the detail that would be missing.
2) Physics 7/ gameplay might have to be revisitted, as the new scale would add complications to how it works currently.
3) Same as the above two points, but with Stations, Stargates etc. ---- I like the base. |
Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:06:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Marchocias Edited by: Marchocias on 30/08/2011 19:41:47 The trouble is, if they make everything scaled like it should be, they have a fair amount of work to do
1. everything would look better. 2. everything would fell better 3. ditto. _________________________________
1/2: love that idea, sounds supercool specially compared to the current "ship gets droped in to water" _______________________________________ Stations
Allso very cool ideas that makes perfect sense, dosent even have to be 5000 exits, but more than 1, maybe even just for smaller ships. Imo it dosent particulary need an entry animation, but just a "random exit point selecter" ________________________________________
Why not focus on super cool actuall improvments on gameplay like this, instead of the capability to sit FOREVER ALONE in your CQ like a total ***.
Because honestly, CQ was hyped up to be like wow/rift cities, where you'd run around like a complete idiot and /emote fart at everyone.
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: William Cooly Herp derp, Obelisk, soup and all that goodstuff.
Now even if we all agree the obelisk or even all haulers can make sense. Lets go back to the main story:
Abaddon: about 500k m3 [volume] (this is definate - this is the total volume of the ship - Effective Volume Calcualtion )
Archon: About 14mill m3 [Volume] This is 28 times more volume.
To compare: Abaddon[BS] - Tormentor[Frig]. Abaddon has 20 times more volume.
Maybe now you get what i'm going at. Subcapitals all scale fairly well in both volume and mass. But somehow Capitals are exeption to this rule.
This 10 by 10 by 10 box, can hold 1,000m3 This 12 by 12 by 12 Box can hold 1,000,000m3 because i say so. That is how capital vs subcapital scaling works
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Discrodia
Gallente Symbiosis International Moose Alliance
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Posted - 2011.08.31 01:33:00 -
[12]
You say this like EVE exists in a universe where the laws of space and time actually worked.
However, because EVE is about submarines in jello pudding shooting each other with projectiles propelled with near-infinite force while at the same time travelling so fast they burrow into the past yet arrive in the present, your arguments about such trivial things as volume are invalid.
Quote: The most effective post is the first post, do not waste it.
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.31 07:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Discrodia You say this like EVE exists in a universe where the laws of space and time actually worked.
However, because EVE is about submarines in jello pudding shooting each other with projectiles propelled with near-infinite force while at the same time travelling so fast they burrow into the past yet arrive in the present, your arguments about such trivial things as volume are invalid.
This somehow makes it untrue? What part of EvE goes beyond the laws of space and time? The ships in EvE use warping (a scientific theory that is plausable) And wormholes in stable and unstable form (allso theoreticly plausable)
Rail guns, antimatter, laser missiles and projectiles are all things beeing researched as we speak.
Only thing not theorycrafted in to "plausable" state, is the capsuleer part.
Either way, Volume is volume no matter how you look at it
just because you cant comprehend, dosent make it untrue. Back to 4chan with you <3
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.31 07:44:00 -
[14]
Btw, just so you know, the ôlong axisö measurement you see in the preview window has next to nothing to do with the size of the ship. As best as anyone has been able to guess, it is a measurement of the collision bubble surrounding the ship, not of the model of the ship itself. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2011.08.31 11:43:00 -
[15]
Sometimes we really need to let these things go to enjoy the game! After all it's a game.
My halfling in EverQuest used to travel around with 8 Backpacks... those backpacks could hold giand brestplates and full size spears or two-handed swords.
One of those backpacks could hold like 200 picknic baskets???? or 1000 Bottles of whatever potion!!
Its a Game, not everything needs to make sence, in fact if it did, can you imagine how crap it would be. Your in game character could only carry what you can bench-press in real life!
------------- Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum [b]In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad m |
Revanic
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Posted - 2011.08.31 12:20:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Jint Hikaru Sometimes we really need to let these things go to enjoy the game! After all it's a game.
My halfling in EverQuest used to travel around with 8 Backpacks... those backpacks could hold giand brestplates and full size spears or two-handed swords.
One of those backpacks could hold like 200 picknic baskets???? or 1000 Bottles of whatever potion!!
Its a Game, not everything needs to make sence, in fact if it did, can you imagine how crap it would be. Your in game character could only carry what you can bench-press in real life!
But surely with CCP pushing the "EVE is real" approach the things pointed out should be addressed, For the sake of complete immersive sci fi experience which CCP claims EVE offers it subscribers. Perhaps CCP knows things about physics we feeble humans are millenia away from realising.. :p
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.31 12:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Jint Hikaru Sometimes we really need to let these things go to enjoy the game! After all it's a game.
My halfling in EverQuest used to travel around with 8 Backpacks... those backpacks could hold giand brestplates and full size spears or two-handed swords.
One of those backpacks could hold like 200 picknic baskets???? or 1000 Bottles of whatever potion!!
Its a Game, not everything needs to make sence, in fact if it did, can you imagine how crap it would be. Your in game character could only carry what you can bench-press in real life!
How is EvE comparable to EQ? thats like comparing it to GTA..
EvE has a substantial level of realism involved, where you actually have to mine minerals - build the ship and all its weapons - then blow it up never to see it again.
And as the ultranoob Revanic pointed out "EvE is Real"
On a sidenote remember those stargates that had the mass of a large star? they fixed that, so there's no real logical reason to not fix this..
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Dane El
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Posted - 2011.08.31 12:57:00 -
[18]
It's a video game about huge spaceships with immortal pilots, you expected realism?
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Jax Mones
Barr Heavy Industries STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Dane El It's a video game about huge spaceships with immortal pilots, you expected realism?
Depends how you define it.
but Frig - BS Volume scaling = ok
Bs - Carrier Volume scaling = OMAIGAD ITS TERRIBLE
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Simetraz
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Posted - 2011.08.31 13:17:00 -
[20]
Actually if you have ever calculated volumes you will find size and shapes can be VERY deceiving. But if you really want to argue the point.
Export the models to a 3d rendering program, and use that to calculate the volumes (Rhino3d is capable of this) and you will get a real answer as to how close they really are.
Then you can also resize them so that the volumes match. Enjoy and looking forward to your results
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