Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:07:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just so those who have no idea what the super-carrier is, and even less idea about why people be mad about them.
By our rules.. Scisors beat paper which beats rock which beats scisors.
Now imagine that supercarriers are rocks.
This is EVE: Scisors beat paper who doesnt beat anyone (Paper might just as well be Dreads, heh). Rock beats all of them. Rock can only be beaten by two or more rocks. Now imagine the enemy has 113 rocks on field, and maybe thousands on store.
Yeah.... Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
SHADOW WARD Tragedy.
49
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
T3 battleships as "Supercarrier Busters"! Or lets just call them "Capital Killers". |
De'Veldrin
Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
9
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 19:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rock Paper Scissors is so 2008.
Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock is what all the cool kids are playing. |
Russell Casey
Black Corsairs
19
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 22:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quick note about gamers:
By our rules, if something is OP, whine like a little ***** while simultaneously abusing the hell of it until it's replaced by the next Flavor of the Expansion (didn't say FOTM )
Now imagine an eighteenth century European complaining that guns are OP while shooting people who only have pointy sticks. Imagine tanks being introduced to counter guns and a hundred years later they're complaining that tanks are OP and the only counter is more tanks. Then bombers are invented.....
|
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Russell Casey wrote:Quick note about gamers: By our rules, if something is OP, whine like a little ***** while simultaneously abusing the hell of it until it's replaced by the next Flavor of the Expansion (didn't say FOTM ) Now imagine an eighteenth century European complaining that guns are OP while shooting people who only have pointy sticks. Imagine tanks being introduced to counter guns and a hundred years later they're complaining that tanks are OP and the only counter is more tanks. Then bombers are invented.....
There are many unbalanced things in EVE, but there are many balanced things as well. It just so happens that one of the more OP things has the power to change political landscapes.
Who cares if the dramiel is too OP or the falcon is too OP.. you can't steamroll entire regions with them. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
Actually, that sounds entirely like CCP. Expect one kind of result, then do something that will give you the exact oposite. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
70
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Simetraz wrote:Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
Actually, that sounds entirely like CCP. Expect one kind of result, then do something that will give you the exact oposite.
WOW I know I am not exactly the funniest person around, and funny being used VERY losely here but... SHoots and right through the window comes to mind. I must remember to put [Joke] at the end so people know to laugh...
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
109
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Your comparison on paper rock scissors is fail. Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Simetraz wrote:Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
Actually, that sounds entirely like CCP. Expect one kind of result, then do something that will give you the exact oposite. WOW I know I am not exactly the funniest person around, and funny being used VERY losely here but... SHoots and right through the window comes to mind. I must remember to put [Joke] at the end so people know to laugh...
Is this triple sarcasm or smthin? Or do you think i really belived CCP would paint scarriers with hello-kitty skins?! All i was saying is that if CCP were to do that expecting people not to fly super carriers they'd fail. I'd love even MORE to fly a hello kitty Nyx. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
|
Raid'En
Apprentice Innovations
45
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:19:00 -
[11] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. that's exatly what he said... |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
109
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Raid'En wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. that's exatly what he said...
Yeah notice that now kind of. His wording for the analogy was pretty bad. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
42
|
Posted - 2011.09.29 23:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Raid'En wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. that's exatly what he said... Yeah notice that now kind of. His wording for the analogy was pretty bad.
No, it was not. Analogy presented, problem introduced, analogy helpes you understand the problems. You understood the problem. On rock paper scisors, paper must beat rock. On EVE, nothing beats rock if not more rocks.
edit: wow just realised how Mordin Solus of me this post was. Cool. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
12
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 01:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Raid'En wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. that's exatly what he said... Yeah notice that now kind of. His wording for the analogy was pretty bad. No, it was not. Analogy presented, problem introduced, analogy helpes you understand the problems. You understood the problem. On rock paper scisors, paper must beat rock. On EVE, nothing beats rock if not more rocks. edit: wow just realised how Mordin Solus of me this post was. Cool.
I read your post.
Read the last line.
Re-read the whole post.
Coffee all over screen.
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
53
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 02:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Raid'En wrote:Brooks Puuntai wrote:Paper rock scissors is all about balance each has its own counter. So if Super Carriers are the rock then paper should beat rock. One of the issues now is that there is no paper that can counter the rock. Instead the only counter is to bring more rocks. that's exatly what he said... Yeah notice that now kind of. His wording for the analogy was pretty bad. No, it was not. Analogy presented, problem introduced, analogy helpes you understand the problems. You understood the problem. On rock paper scisors, paper must beat rock. On EVE, nothing beats rock if not more rocks. edit: wow just realised how Mordin Solus of me this post was. Cool. I read your post. Read the last line. Re-read the whole post. Coffee all over screen. all he needs now is to break into a song. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
78
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah, nerf the 25 billion ISK ships people trained for a year to fly. I mean, it wouldn't be better to develop a proper counter them instead right? |
nubile slave
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Just so those who have no idea what the super-carrier is, and even less idea about why people be mad about them.
By our rules.. Scisors beat paper which beats rock which beats scisors.
Now imagine that supercarriers are rocks.
This is EVE: Scisors beat paper who doesnt beat anyone (Paper might just as well be Dreads, heh). Rock beats all of them. Rock can only be beaten by two or more rocks. Now imagine the enemy has 113 rocks on field, and maybe thousands on store.
Yeah....
Lets pretend you spent your Isk on Rocks, instead of Hookers and blow. Then you have the required rocks to actually defend yourself....
|
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
21
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 03:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
SC's broke so much that was cool it isn't even funny. SC's were ******** to start with. Little man syndrome. In a real world they should have been destroyed by Dreds |
Headerman
Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
132
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:Just so those who have no idea what the super-carrier is, and even less idea about why people be mad about them.
By our rules.. Scisors beat paper which beats rock which beats scisors.
Now imagine that supercarriers are rocks.
This is EVE: Scisors beat paper who doesnt beat anyone (Paper might just as well be Dreads, heh). Rock beats all of them. Rock can only be beaten by two or more rocks. Now imagine the enemy has 113 rocks on field, and maybe thousands on store.
Yeah....
Sounds like the rocks would win BY A LANDSLIDE [img]http://i53.tinypic.com/bebnf8.jpg[/img] |
Ayanaya
Apple Industries Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 04:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
De'Veldrin wrote:Rock Paper Scissors is so 2008.
Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock is what all the cool kids are playing.
+1 - best response in thread. |
|
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
53
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:Yeah, nerf the 25 billion ISK ships people trained for a year to fly. I mean, it wouldn't be better to develop a proper counter them instead right?
and what a "proper counter" is then?
if CCP develops a counter that can go 1:1 vs supercaps then people would field that instead, and you just transferred the problem.
if counter is cheaper and easier to attain, than supercaps, people would say "CCP BOOST SUPERS THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE AND GET BLOWN'D UP BY PEANUTS!".
not that I don't agree with you, since I also think it's better to provide a counter than nerf, but in the case of the supers, the most reasonable way to go at it seems to be nerf, unfortunately. [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
41
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 12:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think Supercarriers were a very deliberate move from CCP, mainly aimed to keep their veteran players.
In other games, players are more or less balanced. There's roles and FOTMs but basically combined, healers, DPS, utility, long/short range DPS and cloakies can be formed into a cooperative team that is stronger than so many of just one class/build.
In EVE before capitals were introduced we had ships that were more or less balanced too. A frigate can't destroy a battleship but a few of them can and a frigate can tackle a battleship. Logistics can make a difference. The whole tracking, speed and signature radius thing was a smart move to counter ship size > all.
With supercaps we got the ultimate reward for 2-3+ year old players. Without them you can't really hold any souvereignty. It made players dependent on veterans and broke any rock/paper/scissors mechanic EVE had.
As a result EVE has a very "top heavy" playerbase and a lot of new players don't feel very encouraged by these facts. Think about it: about every single new player rather starts playing on a new server if there was one. Why would that be? Is this a good or bad thing? It depends what CCP wants. I think that in the end, the amount of players would have been far greater if there weren't capitals in EVE. |
Cpt Greagor
Liquid Relief
1
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 13:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
That would only make me want to fly them more. This would be a good example of something you're saying, and it is awesome. |
Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
78
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:09:00 -
[24] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Rhaegor Stormborn wrote:Yeah, nerf the 25 billion ISK ships people trained for a year to fly. I mean, it wouldn't be better to develop a proper counter them instead right? and what a "proper counter" is then? if CCP develops a counter that can go 1:1 vs supercaps then people would field that instead, and you just transferred the problem. if counter is cheaper and easier to attain, than supercaps, people would say "CCP BOOST SUPERS THEY ARE TOO EXPENSIVE AND GET BLOWN'D UP BY PEANUTS!". not that I don't agree with you, since I also think it's better to provide a counter than nerf, but in the case of the supers, the most reasonable way to go at it seems to be nerf, unfortunately.
Just saying, if they nerf them terribly, it is unfair to those they "baited and switched" into training up an alt accounts for ships that can not dock, cost a ton of ISK, and take at least year if training, if not two to get nearly perfect skills. I know they nerf subcaps all the time, but people were forced to buy alt accounts to get super carriers since they can not dock. Major nerfs to them should be compensated to the player base who have invested time and real life money into getting them (subscription fees for a year or two). |
Grimpak
Midnight Elites Echelon Rising
55
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jennifer Starling wrote:Grimpak wrote: and what a "proper counter" is then?
I liked the idea of T2 black ops like Battlecruisers with Citadel Torpedoes, a bit like stealth bombers but especially to counter capitals!
queue in supercap pilots demanding a nerf because their 40bil ships are being blown up by a gang of 1/10th of their value.
well, yeah ok, cost is not a balance factor, but you can see it coming [img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
Grimpak wrote:Jennifer Starling wrote:Grimpak wrote: and what a "proper counter" is then?
I liked the idea of T2 black ops like Battlecruisers with Citadel Torpedoes, a bit like stealth bombers but especially to counter capitals! queue in supercap pilots demanding a nerf because their 40bil ships are being blown up by a gang of 1/10th of their value. well, yeah ok, cost is not a balance factor, but you can see it coming
Can't believe i'm hearing thig.
HTFU maybe (not you, but the SC pilot).
So because the guy spent 25b and 1 year of training in something, he feels that other "less expensive" shipe with "less skilled" pilots shouldn't touch him? Litty bitty hypocrisy no?
Then retriever pilots shouldnt be able to be touched by thrashers either. And lets not even start on the noctis Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 14:58:00 -
[27] - Quote
At any rate, the be-all-end-all nerf to supercapitals to me would be making them permanent in game. Which means you need either a very big POS or a very big shoebox. No more logging off in them (which means their pilots would be fred)
So... Problem there, Mr Hoarder?! Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT Numquam Ambulare Solus
2
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:At any rate, the be-all-end-all nerf to supercapitals to me would be making them permanent in game. Which means you need either a very big POS or a very big shoebox. No more logging off in them (which means their pilots would be fred)
My feeling on SCs runs sort of along these lines. However, I also thing that since titans and SCs are the size of POSs (or larger) with significant internal support populations to boot they should require fuel 24/7, just like POSs. And if they payer wants to "offline" his SC or titan, then the damn thing takes 30 mins to online, just like a POS.
You want your SCs to sit at the ready 24/7 somewhere, better have the fuel train setup to keep them online. Keep an alt in your SC, no worries but you still need to pay the continuous upkeep. ISK-wise, the large alliances would not have any difficulty funding the fuel. ITS THE HASSLE, the logistical effort, to keep those ships running.
Some fuel types (like a POS) are independent of cpu/power grid usage, but others are. I would also make that when these things are regenning cap, they burn fuel faster. So now you have a choice - capital cap buddies to keep from running out of some fuel types or haulers to keep the fuel running to keep the massive beasts going during a fleet encounter.
This would go a long way into making super cap hot dropping expensive/annoying and increase the strategic options for dealing with them. Cut the supply chain? Potentially choke the SC until ineffectual.
If only we could fall into a woman's arms
without falling into her hands |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova Vera Cruz Alliance
48
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:18:00 -
[29] - Quote
Yeah that makes sense too, i guess. Maybe both, even. Have the supercapitals go inside the POS and be there "anchored" in which case it would still consume fuel, but in a much smaller quantity and the fuel would be stored on the POS itself.
Now, if you want to log it off and make it vanish from known space make it consume a large enough amount of fuel that hoarding the thing is pratically impossible. Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Florence Valentine
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2011.09.30 16:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cpt Greagor wrote:Simetraz wrote:Actually I heard they were going to nerf SC's by painting them bright pink with little kitty decals on them, That way people will be to embarressed to fly them.
That would only make me want to fly them more. This would be a good example of something you're saying, and it is awesome.
Indeed.
Surely being shot and podded by something pink with kittens on is more embarrasing. All the more reason to buy a pink SC, and go shoot someone.
If you are looking to turn people off of SC's, far better to paint the pilot's home address on it for all to see. But knowing that there are no limits to stupidity, I'm sure some tit would still fly it.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |