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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4686
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 11:35:00 -
[121] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:From the Massively article: Quote:Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player.(...) There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. Maybe the guys at Massively got it wrong, maybe i am getting it wrong, but that sounds as a gateway to CCP-sanctioned player harrassment. Are there any Developer details on it yet?
How so? Putting a bounty on another player doesn't give anyone any special in-game rights, does it?
Right now I could, quite legitimately, offer a bounty on you via the forums. How would being able to do it in the game make it more or less "harrassment"? The only real difference I can see is that with Retribution, another player would be confident of the bounty being honoured whereas now they'd just have to trust me and hope.
Conversely, now you'll be able to put in-game bounties on people you deem criminal, regardless of their sec status.
Incidentally, most hi-seccers seem to have some wrong ideas about bounties. Specifically, about how much is a reasonable bounty. There seems to be this general supposition that if an NPC battleship carries a bounty of 500k-1.9M, then that's a reasonable amount to put onto a player. If you want anyone remotely competent to actually go out of their way to collect a bounty, I suggest you start around the 250M mark for an easy target, and work quickly up into the 9-digit zone for a perp who's actually any good.
If people wanted to shoot a ship for a lousy mill, they'd just shoot an NPC BS, you damb tightwads. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
33
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 11:50:00 -
[122] - Quote
Lets place bountys on bounty hunters. About WIS |
Dread Pirate Pete
Tribal Core Defiant Legacy
52
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 11:57:00 -
[123] - Quote
I foresee a substantial amount of miner isk being placed on James 315's head. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
327
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 12:12:00 -
[124] - Quote
I don't see the use - The Invincible Stabber is... well, an invincible Stabber. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 12:35:00 -
[125] - Quote
Andski wrote:Idris Helion wrote: So why are you complaining about highsec? What does it matter to you?
Because hisec isn't an isolated shard. As well as null. Why does your alliance interfere with hisec then? GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
I Love Lesbians
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2012.09.30 12:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
So where is the trailer? How can it be announced without a trailer |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4686
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 12:42:00 -
[127] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Andski wrote:Idris Helion wrote: So why are you complaining about highsec? What does it matter to you?
Because hisec isn't an isolated shard. As well as null. Why does your alliance interfere with hisec then?
Because hi-sec isn't an isolated shard. What happens in hi-sec and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in lo-sec, W-space, NPC 0.0 and sov 0.0. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
TharOkha
0asis Group
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 12:43:00 -
[128] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Andski wrote:Idris Helion wrote: So why are you complaining about highsec? What does it matter to you?
Because hisec isn't an isolated shard. As well as null. btw, Why does your alliance interfere with hisec then?
Quote:This is what's killing EVE, that "PvP is for low/null, not hisec" mentality.
Yeah. Because growing numbers of subs is the indication of death... oh... i forgot... "eve is dying" (happily since 2003). And yes, Hisec shouldnt be the griefer haven as it is now. it should also provide retribution. You comite crime? You are a criminal, everybody should kill you. Thats why we call it HISEC. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Singeabooty Raj
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
326
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:21:00 -
[129] - Quote
Personally I think the new bounty system will be abused as a viable griefing mechanic that evades enforcement by the Eula.
Put things in perspective and consider what happened at fanfest last year.
Post Retribution if a similar thing happened the new bounty system would allow a collective of players to effectively make any individual constantly financially viable for ganking isk wise potentially in perpetuity.
As I understand it assuming isk is not an issue (and with dedicated bounty hunters) retribution will allow one person or groups to effectively target any specific player / groups and shut down their play style unless the targeted player(s) opts to take the risk.
Since things are left to player interpretation the "Crime" could be as simple as flying a pimped ship.
Black Man with Goggles |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4926
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Yeah. Because growing numbers of subs is the indication of death... oh... i forgot... "eve is dying" (happily since 2003). And yes, Hisec shouldnt be the griefer haven as it is now. it should also provide retribution. You comite crime? You are a criminal, everybody should kill you. Thats why we call it HISEC.
Ahahaha you seem to think that increased safety will bring more subscribers please leave |
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
885
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:30:00 -
[131] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:This is also true vice versa. What happens in Low/null/wh and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in hisec as well.
This is barely true at all.
Highsec has so much provided for them on a plate by NPCs and highsec mechanics that they're effectively insulated from any effects caused by events elsewhere in the game. CCP could delete 0.0 space overnight and 90% of those players based out of highsec would barely notice. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
675
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:36:00 -
[132] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:From the Massively article: Quote:Here's how the new bounty system in Retribution works: Any player can, for any reason, create a bounty on another player.(...) There are no longer limitations on creating bounties; players do not have to be below a certain security rating to qualify. Maybe the guys at Massively got it wrong, maybe i am getting it wrong, but that sounds as a gateway to CCP-sanctioned player harrassment. Are there any Developer details on it yet? How so? Putting a bounty on another player doesn't give anyone any special in-game rights, does it? Right now I could, quite legitimately, offer a bounty on you via the forums. How would being able to do it in the game make it more or less "harrassment"? The only real difference I can see is that with Retribution, another player would be confident of the bounty being honoured whereas now they'd just have to trust me and hope. Conversely, now you'll be able to put in-game bounties on people you deem criminal, regardless of their sec status. Incidentally, most hi-seccers seem to have some wrong ideas about bounties. Specifically, about how much is a reasonable bounty. There seems to be this general supposition that if an NPC battleship carries a bounty of 500k-1.9M, then that's a reasonable amount to put onto a player. If you want anyone remotely competent to actually go out of their way to collect a bounty, I suggest you start around the 250M mark for an easy target, and work quickly up into the 9-digit zone for a perp who's actually any good. If people wanted to shoot a ship for a lousy mill, they'd just shoot an NPC BS, you damb tightwads.
As I said, I haven't seen any details on this so haven't made my mind up. It depends upon what does mean to put a bounty on someone, and what effect this haves on criminal flagging. If putting a bounty on someone is like now, and doesn't grants kill rights on the target, then it's fine. But, it's not as if we could trust the CSM nor CCP on this, and maybe they litherally mean that anyone with a bounty becomes a free pi+¦ata anywhere and anytime. I play games for fun, evasion and reward.-áEVE is not fun, it sucks as much as reality and dismisses all my ways of playing it.
I think that I should unhook myself from that b*tch... Soon. |
Jax Bederen
Dark Horse RM
197
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:39:00 -
[133] - Quote
Would be good to be able to counter bounty the one that singled you out, but I can see bounties being made by perma docked alts to avoid this. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
156
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:41:00 -
[134] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:maybe they litherally mean that anyone with a bounty becomes a free pi+¦ata anywhere and anytime.
Well, it better be like this or it will be just another gimmick like wardecs. Oh noes, I have a bounty, hold me. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Kraken.
328
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 13:47:00 -
[135] - Quote
Nah, I think to grab a bounty you'll need to purchase or rent kill rights, wardec them or suicide gank them (in highsec). There's no way CCP'd let you just mark another player to get shot. It's insane. But how do you find out who has kill rights on someone :S Also if someone who has a big bounty kills you are you going to get a bunch of offers for the killrights? |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
779
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:05:00 -
[136] - Quote
TharOkha wrote: Yeah. Because growing numbers of subs is the indication of death... oh... i forgot... "eve is dying" (happily since 2003). And yes, Hisec shouldnt be the griefer haven as it is now. it should also provide retribution. You comite crime? You are a criminal, everybody should kill you. Thats why we call it HISEC.
Removing PVP from our PVP game sure will help subscription numbers! |
Kopfy
23
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Posted - 2012.09.30 14:06:00 -
[137] - Quote
Real Poison wrote:Kopfy wrote:Will be interesting to see how things will change and people adapt. Winter is coming, it seems. Regarding the new Minmatar dessy: http://i.imgur.com/765EW.pngIt's clearly a monitor with pointy bits. How did you extract and render the in-game model to put the flags on?
Oh, i didn't i "borrowed" a picture of the actual USS monitor and put some low quality adobe illustrator magic on to it...
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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
676
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:19:00 -
[138] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Nah, I think to grab a bounty you'll need to purchase or rent kill rights, wardec them or suicide gank them (in highsec). There's no way CCP'd let you just mark another player to get shot. It's insane. But how do you find out who has kill rights on someone :S Also if someone who has a big bounty kills you are you going to get a bunch of offers for the killrights?
That would make sense, but, then, since when CCP are known for their abbility to make sensible choices without first letting the nonsense to stink the game for years?
If someone managed to get kill rights on him, then let him have it. That's retribution. But holding a grudge on someone and turn him into a flying pi+¦ata with a bounty would be nonsense. I play games for fun, evasion and reward.-áEVE is not fun, it sucks as much as reality and dismisses all my ways of playing it.
I think that I should unhook myself from that b*tch... Soon. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4687
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:42:00 -
[139] - Quote
TharOkha wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Because hi-sec isn't an isolated shard. What happens in hi-sec and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in lo-sec, W-space, NPC 0.0 and sov 0.0.
This is also true vice versa. What happens in Low/null/wh and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in hisec as well. Question is. Do hisec dweller whine soooooooooooo much about life in null as nullbears whine about hisec? Please...
Yeah, pretty constantly if these forums are any guide.
Or are you saying that hi-sec is so overbuffed that there's literally not a single thing about any of the other sec zones that the inhabitants need to care about..? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Elinarien
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:48:00 -
[140] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:TharOkha wrote:This is also true vice versa. What happens in Low/null/wh and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in hisec as well. This is barely true at all. Highsec has so much provided for them on a plate by NPCs and highsec mechanics that they're effectively insulated from any effects caused by events elsewhere in the game. CCP could delete 0.0 space overnight and 90% of those players based out of highsec would barely notice.
Just a slight exaggeration there. |
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
33
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:49:00 -
[141] - Quote
Selling kill rights means that gankers will be ganked on gates? About WIS |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4687
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:50:00 -
[142] - Quote
Elinarien wrote:Scatim Helicon wrote:TharOkha wrote:This is also true vice versa. What happens in Low/null/wh and the conditions that pertain there matter to people living in hisec as well. This is barely true at all. Highsec has so much provided for them on a plate by NPCs and highsec mechanics that they're effectively insulated from any effects caused by events elsewhere in the game. CCP could delete 0.0 space overnight and 90% of those players based out of highsec would barely notice. Just a slight exaggeration there.
Only slightly.
If CCP added deadspace mods to hi-sec plexes, that'd do it.
I guess high end minerals might go up too. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
935
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:50:00 -
[143] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Incidentally, most hi-seccers seem to have some wrong ideas about bounties. Specifically, about how much is a reasonable bounty. There seems to be this general supposition that if an NPC battleship carries a bounty of 500k-1.9M, then that's a reasonable amount to put onto a player. If you want anyone remotely competent to actually go out of their way to collect a bounty, I suggest you start around the 250M mark for an easy target, and work quickly up into the 9-digit zone for a perp who's actually any good.
If people wanted to shoot a ship for a lousy mill, they'd just shoot an NPC BS, you damb tightwads. Oh man, don't even get me started on this. I could just go on and on about clients wanting to buy our mercenary services and offering to pay using that exact scheme. Literally multiplying target member count by the value of some mission NPC and then offering like four million ISK for a war against focused griefing corporations, derp.
TharOkha wrote:Hisec shouldnt be the griefer haven as it is now. it should also provide retribution. You comite crime? You are a criminal, everybody should kill you. Thats why we call it HISEC. The punishment should fit the crime. As it is right now, stealing from a can flags you to the owner's corporation. The punishment fits the crime. What we're going to get is the can thief getting flagged to the entirety of the server's online population, and also possibly being shot by the sentry guns (which are getting buffed to take out triage carriers within 4.5 minutes, by the way).
Singeabooty Raj wrote:Post Retribution if a similar thing happened the new bounty system would allow a collective of players to effectively make any individual constantly financially viable for ganking isk wise potentially in perpetuity.
As I understand it assuming isk is not an issue (and with dedicated bounty hunters) retribution will allow one person or groups to effectively target any specific player / groups and shut down their play style unless the targeted player(s) opts to take the risk. I really see no problem with this, although it won't actually be the case. We're very likely to see lump-sum bounties disappear with this patch, and instead be replaced with a system that resembles FW LP awards. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Ascendance.
384
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 14:53:00 -
[144] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The punishment should fit the crime. As it is right now, stealing from a can flags you to the owner's corporation. The punishment fits the crime. What we're going to get is the can thief getting flagged to the entirety of the server's online population, and also possibly being shot by the sentry guns (which are getting buffed to take out triage carriers within 4.5 minutes, by the way).
.
That was talked about but not confirmed. CSM sayed that idea is most likely not impemented. |
Damasa Cloudwalker
Cloudwalker Enterprises
7
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:02:00 -
[145] - Quote
Everything sounds good except the bounty system. I can see it only being used as a griefing tool.
So let me get this straight in case I read it wrong... Anyone can place a bounty on anyone, any corp or any alliance, regardless of security status? If so, that pretty much removes the "high" from "highsec".
Hulkageddon a permanent event? Sounds like a one-up for Mittens and his bunch.
Not too sure about the game now, but will have an ear out for any other tidbits that might come out between now and Retribution...
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
935
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:05:00 -
[146] - Quote
Damasa Cloudwalker wrote:Everything sounds good except the bounty system. I can see it only being used as a griefing tool.
So let me get this straight in case I read it wrong... Anyone can place a bounty on anyone, any corp or any alliance, regardless of security status? If so, that pretty much removes the "high" from "highsec".
Hulkageddon a permanent event? Sounds like a one-up for Mittens and his bunch.
Not too sure about the game now, but will have an ear out for any other tidbits that might come out between now and Retribution... You can already put a bounty on any player or organization, as large as you want to make it, without worrying about security status. The only thing that's changing is that now there will be an in-game interface for it. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4687
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
Damasa Cloudwalker wrote:Everything sounds good except the bounty system. I can see it only being used as a griefing tool.
So let me get this straight in case I read it wrong... Anyone can place a bounty on anyone, any corp or any alliance, regardless of security status? If so, that pretty much removes the "high" from "highsec".
Hulkageddon a permanent event? Sounds like a one-up for Mittens and his bunch.
Not too sure about the game now, but will have an ear out for any other tidbits that might come out between now and Retribution...
Quick check here - are you under the impression that placing a bounty on someone means that they can be attacked without CONCORD intervention? Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
Spurty
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
464
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:15:00 -
[148] - Quote
If you want the bounty placed on the bad guy to cost the bad guy, make the pay out come from their wallet.
Negative wallets are the fastest way to curb high sec antics.
Just being able to set bounties with zero history of aggression is as clever as a box of frogs
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
935
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:18:00 -
[149] - Quote
Spurty wrote:If you want the bounty placed on the bad guy to cost the bad guy, make the pay out come from their wallet. 4/10 (not very original) (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
676
|
Posted - 2012.09.30 15:26:00 -
[150] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Damasa Cloudwalker wrote:Everything sounds good except the bounty system. I can see it only being used as a griefing tool.
So let me get this straight in case I read it wrong... Anyone can place a bounty on anyone, any corp or any alliance, regardless of security status? If so, that pretty much removes the "high" from "highsec".
Hulkageddon a permanent event? Sounds like a one-up for Mittens and his bunch.
Not too sure about the game now, but will have an ear out for any other tidbits that might come out between now and Retribution...
Quick check here - are you under the impression that placing a bounty on someone means that they can be attacked without CONCORD intervention?
Currently don't, as far as I know. But, why should we trust CCP to keep it like that? I play games for fun, evasion and reward.-áEVE is not fun, it sucks as much as reality and dismisses all my ways of playing it.
I think that I should unhook myself from that b*tch... Soon. |
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