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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
667
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'd ask for your stuff, but you probably have nothing. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Vulix
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:09:00 -
[32] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪand our counter-points is that the problem is how you choose to play it, and your expectations of what the game is supposed to provide you with. We don't feel it's shallow because we take the tools to build a deep game for ourselves. You do something else and thus find it shallow.
I brought up the age thing to give some context to the type of player I am. However, people were taking that information and using it for a different purpose, i.e. discrediting my original post.
My issue with this game is there are many aspects to which a player can not immerse themselves beyond a shallow point. Many of the gameplay features seem simplistic and incomplete. Many things you can do in this game become a chore and boil down to a lot of menu clicking that's not fun at all |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2459
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪand our counter-points is that the problem is how you choose to play it, and your expectations of what the game is supposed to provide you with. We don't feel it's shallow because we take the tools to build a deep game for ourselves. You do something else and thus find it shallow.
I brought up the age thing to give some context to the type of player I am. However, people were taking that information and using it for a different purpose, i.e. discrediting my original post. My issue with this game is there are many aspects to which a player can not immerse themselves beyond a shallow point. Many of the gameplay features seem simplistic and incomplete. Many things you can do in this game become a chore and boil down to a lot of menu clicking that's not fun at all
While I agree that many of the very basic game play elements, the PVE side of things, could always stand improvement (and CCP has always agreed with this) you also need to understand that PVE has never been the focus or core game play of EVE.
You choose to stick with the simplest tasks available, and then complain that they are not challenging enough.... To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9662
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vulix wrote:I brought up the age thing to give some context to the type of player I am. However, people were taking that information and using it for a different purpose, i.e. discrediting my original post. Yes, wellGǪ as someone who's been around for two years, you'd be expected to know how exploration works (especially if you're going to complain about it) and how the market differs from what pretty much all other games offer (especially if you're going to claim that it's same-old same-old).
Quote:My issue with this game is there are many aspects to which a player can not immerse themselves beyond a shallow point. GǪand this is because you choose not to immerse yourself in them. Plenty of other people have chosen to do so and don't treat it as a chore to be ground to tears. Again, the game is what you make it. You choose to make it a grind, a chore, and to not delve deep. The game can't fix your choices. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
To a greater degree than any other game (online or otherwise) I can think of, EVE requires you to "make your own game".
Yes, gameplay is unpolished in a lot of areas. Missioning in particular is so flawed as to be broken in my view; I keep hoping that CCP will dedicate a release to nothing but bringing the missioning system up to par, but no luck so far. CCP is great about keeping game mechanics updated and adding new content, but iterating on old content? Not so much. (See: incursions, FW, etc. All are completely broken to some degree or other.)
Yet EVE is still the only game that really draws me in after all these years. It's the game economy more than anything that pulls me in -- almost everything in the game is created by and driven by other players. If you like to set your own goals and work towards achieving them, there's no better game out there to do that than EVE IMO. But if you like a guided, channeled, well-drawn experience...the game is not for you.
That being said, though, I do wish CCP would invest some more time and creative talent in actual storytelling in EVE (through the missioning system, FW, and Incursions, and maybe special events). The lore of New Eden is very deep and interesting, but CCP -- for some reason that escapes me completely -- chooses not to tell the story of EVE inside the game. You have to go to the website or to the books to learn that story. Otherwise, to most players, the factions and politics in the game are just fancy wallpaper. I think CCP is feeling a little burned after the "Incarna" fiasco, frankly.
EVE draws an older, more engaged player-base. Many of the players have been in the game for years -- some since it first launched nearly 10 years ago. The game is molded to cater to the vets rather than the noobs (though CCP has been trying to make the game more noob-friendly), and the gameplay reflects that. I think it's a mistake for CCP to defer to the bittervets so much, but that's water long since gone under the bridge.
tl;dr: Ultimately, EVE is what you make of it. It's not a novel; it's a pile of blank pages and a pen.
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
117
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:21:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:While I agree that many of the very basic game play elements, the PVE side of things, could always stand improvement (and CCP has always agreed with this) you also need to understand that PVE has never been the focus or core game play of EVE.
I'm going to push back on this. Missioning is the main way PVP'ers make a living in EVE -- PVP doesn't pay the bills. It's the main mechanism whereby players make ISK, and gain standings. It's a vital and very central mechanic to the game...and it really stinks as currently implemented. It desperately needs to be modernized.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
668
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:24:00 -
[37] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:While I agree that many of the very basic game play elements, the PVE side of things, could always stand improvement (and CCP has always agreed with this) you also need to understand that PVE has never been the focus or core game play of EVE. I'm going to push back on this. Missioning is the main way PVP'ers make a living in EVE -- PVP doesn't pay the bills.
Depends on who you blow up. Mining Barge buff: CCP-áhas acknowledged that miners in general-áare too stupid to make the correct fitting choices to make ganking them unprofitable. |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
195
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:24:00 -
[38] - Quote
Oh Pisssha!... EVE is NOT shallow... OMG you look ravashing my dear... kiss kiss... oh I must be off to do my hair!... Tah!!!! Look at all the Macks in local...impressive... very impressive... I see you have fashioned a new exhumer... much like you father's... your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen... |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2461
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Idris Helion wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:While I agree that many of the very basic game play elements, the PVE side of things, could always stand improvement (and CCP has always agreed with this) you also need to understand that PVE has never been the focus or core game play of EVE. I'm going to push back on this. Missioning is the main way PVP'ers make a living in EVE -- PVP doesn't pay the bills. Depends on who you blow up. Indeed.
I would also point out that making missions more challenging is one of the core elements of the next expansion... smarter NPC AI. Although I will also acknowledge that this is only a baby step in the right direction.
FW is another currently existing way for PVP to pay the bills, although that needs some serious fixes as well. Again, improvements inbound in the next expansion.
And finally, the new bounty system... which is probably the poster child for "lets help make PVP pay the bills" by introducing a viable bounty hunter class.
Yes, for many people level 4 missions pay their PVP bills currently... and this needs to change. However, keep in mind that part of the reason for this is that they are currently relatively simply to do, and very predictable income.
One thing that CCP has to keep in mind that some people WANT something relatively mindless to do on occasion to earn their daily bread... so instead of sweeping changes they seem to be focusing on small improvements to this very basic game play, and developing more challenging alternative forms of that style of game play to coexist with them.
Look at ratting, missions, Incursions, and WH's... all variations on the same theme but of varying levels of complexity (with more to come I am sure). The options for belt and comet mining that keeps resurfacing as a discussion for more challenging content for miners is another example that has not yet reached fruition.
Still, with all that being said, missions are not and were never intended to be the main draw or core game play of EVE. It is simply a means to an end, that end being the more challenging and unpredictable content created through player interaction.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
293
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:40:00 -
[40] - Quote
People confuse complex with convoluted. It's not so much EVE though. It's the limitations of binary code. EVE is as complex as any game can be. |
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Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
122
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Posted - 2012.09.30 19:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Skydell wrote:People confuse complex with convoluted. It's not so much EVE though. It's the limitations of binary code. EVE is as complex as any game can be.
EVE does have a lot of pretty needless complexity, though. The PI interface, for example, or drone management -- it's just a convoluted, confusing PITA with no clear gain from the complexity. It's just there for its own sake (or to draw out the amount of time a player stays in the game, a habit MMO developers get into almost unconsciously). CCP often confuses mechanical complexity with operational depth -- they see a Rube Goldberg contraption and assume it must do something awesome because it's so darn complicated.
Simplicity is often a virtue -- this is a lesson CCP devs should take to heart.
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TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
358
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Posted - 2012.09.30 20:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Malcanis wrote:EVE gives you back exactly what you put in. People who play it in a boring, safe way will have a boring safe experience. I have been in a null sec alliance for a year and a half on my alt now
I found the problem, guys! He's a nullbear! "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
Raya Chandragupta
Observant Eye Inc
11
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Posted - 2012.09.30 20:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Euphoriiia wrote:Shallow and pedantic... I agree... shallow and pedantic
Well, the game is just like its players: a bunch of spreadsheet-loving anal retentive bores with the personality of cardboard.
CCP would have to expand gameplay options quite a bit to attract people who are actually worth talking to.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2405
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Posted - 2012.09.30 21:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Raya Chandragupta wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Euphoriiia wrote:Shallow and pedantic... I agree... shallow and pedantic Well, the game is just like its players: a bunch of spreadsheet-loving anal retentive bores with the personality of cardboard. CCP would have to expand gameplay options quite a bit to attract people who are actually worth talking to.
Yeah, the best we got is your mom "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
San Severina
Hoplite Brigade
36
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Posted - 2012.09.30 21:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
/me yawns.
Good thread OP, raised some interesting points. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
123
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Posted - 2012.09.30 21:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
Raya Chandragupta wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Euphoriiia wrote:Shallow and pedantic... I agree... shallow and pedantic Well, the game is just like its players: a bunch of spreadsheet-loving anal retentive bores with the personality of cardboard. CCP would have to expand gameplay options quite a bit to attract people who are actually worth talking to.
Boy, it's a good thing that you wouldn't waste your time posting to a message board frequented by these no-fun neckbeards, amirite?
Oh, wait....
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Alpheias
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
800
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Posted - 2012.09.30 23:04:00 -
[47] - Quote
Perhaps the newest expansion for World of Warcraft is more to OP's taste? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4460
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Posted - 2012.09.30 23:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alpheias wrote:Perhaps the newest expansion for World of Warcraft is more to OP's taste? I hear you can play a goblin now without paying for any of the expansions. Its good to be Gallente. |
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
238
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Posted - 2012.10.01 00:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Malcanis wrote:EVE gives you back exactly what you put in. People who play it in a boring, safe way will have a boring safe experience. I have been in a null sec alliance for a year and a half on my alt now
Thats about as risky as dropping a can on 4-4.
If you want risk, fun and a different play style. Go and small gang/roam rahter than fly with your cluster **** of blues or dock up as soon as a neut comes in local.
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Adalun Dey
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
61
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Posted - 2012.10.01 00:12:00 -
[50] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Euphoriiia wrote:Shallow and pedantic... I agree... shallow and pedantic Redundant and repetitive? " Take my love, take my land, take me where I can not stand, I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me. "
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2411
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Posted - 2012.10.01 00:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
Adalun Dey wrote:Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:Euphoriiia wrote:Shallow and pedantic... I agree... shallow and pedantic Redundant and repetitive?
That too "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Barakach
R-ISK Shadow Operations.
82
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Posted - 2012.10.01 01:45:00 -
[52] - Quote
EvE is not about PvE, and because of this, PvE is quite boring. There are many other games that have a better PvE, but the PvP in here is best in class. It's like Counter Strike for MMORPG space junkies. |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4470
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Posted - 2012.10.01 01:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
Barakach wrote:EvE is not about PvE, and because of this, PvE is quite boring. There are many other games that have a better PvE, but the PvP in here is best in class. It's like Counter Strike for MMORPG space junkies. I disagree, EVE is whatever you make it, and for whatever reasons (for me its the hardcore death penalty, which I normally don't bring up because to do so would invite grief from the second reason I don't pvp) not everyone desires to make it about blowing other people up (or place oneself in unnecessary risk of being blown up).
If enough people think PVE content is boring than that is something CCP should look into, and I think updating the NPC AI is a good start.
Its good to be Gallente. |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
171
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Posted - 2012.10.01 01:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:EVE gives you back exactly what you put in. People who play it in a boring, safe way will have a boring safe experience.
Amen. Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
125
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Posted - 2012.10.01 03:15:00 -
[55] - Quote
Barakach wrote:EvE is not about PvE, and because of this, PvE is quite boring.
Spoken like a true e-peener. Without PVE, PVP players wouldn't be able to afford their nice ships. Without industry, PVP'ers would have no ships or modules to buy with the ISK they get from PVE.
PVE is just as big (if not bigger) a part of EVE as PVP. (Though I guess you can say that it's PVP in a way: I'm competing against other players in the markets and in the ore belts rather than in ship-to-ship combat, but that's splitting hairs.) There's no game without PVE, just as there is no game without PVP. EVE needs both and depends on both to function.
What's really hilarious about this whole attitude is that most of the "PVP for evah!" dudes spend most of their in-game time plexing, running anoms, missioning...in short, doing PVE. |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1421
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Posted - 2012.10.01 03:36:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vulix wrote:Looking for an internet spaceship themepark; didn't find one
fixed
. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2465
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:Barakach wrote:EvE is not about PvE, and because of this, PvE is quite boring. Spoken like a true e-peener. Without PVE, PVP players wouldn't be able to afford their nice ships. Without industry, PVP'ers would have no ships or modules to buy with the ISK they get from PVE. PVE is just as big (if not bigger) a part of EVE as PVP. (Though I guess you can say that it's PVP in a way: I'm competing against other players in the markets and in the ore belts rather than in ship-to-ship combat, but that's splitting hairs.) There's no game without PVE, just as there is no game without PVP. EVE needs both and depends on both to function. What's really hilarious about this whole attitude is that most of the "PVP for evah!" dudes spend most of their in-game time plexing, running anoms, missioning...in short, doing PVE.
I don't think most of us feel that PVE is an unimportant part of the game, it definitely has it's place and it definitely could stand some improving.
However, I don't think anyone is fooling themselves into seriously thinking that ANY PVE experience (no matter how well developed) is going to be as entertaining and unpredictable as when they are competing with and against other players. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Liafcipe9000
Smeghead Empire
54
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:16:00 -
[58] - Quote
when's the lottery drawing for the winner of all your stuff&isk? |
Paul Oliver
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4484
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:21:00 -
[59] - Quote
When I quit I'm trashing everything I've accumulated, you jackals get NOTHING. Its good to be Gallente. |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
195
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Posted - 2012.10.01 04:21:00 -
[60] - Quote
Join a corp that is active. This is a game that sux when playing solo, and due to your past history you have been a loan wolf.
Join Red vs Blue to start off with that will change you point of view.
CCP does not make the content the players do.
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
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