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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
316
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you are a new player, stop training drones now. Focus on gunnery skills, likely large autocannons and minnie BS's.
Drones are soon to be wiped out as an effective weapons platform for missions. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
113
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Because missions are obviously all newbies do, especially with drone boats. I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Moondancer Starweaver
The Drones Club
1
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Posted - 2012.10.01 20:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:If you are a new player, stop training drones now. Focus on gunnery skills, likely large autocannons and minnie BS's.
Drones are soon to be wiped out as an effective weapons platform for missions.
Is this real? or just a post to scare new players off of drones?
Currently training for drone boats now since i am gallente. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
44
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Although he's failed to link his source, I guess he is referring to the NPC AI reworking thread ..
Here
and is therefore i suppose under the misguided impression that it means instant death to drones as soon as you launch them.
He is of course very wrong. It's the sleeper AI, which means they wil have improved threat detection, nothing really overly dramatic there.
You can keep training for your droneboats. If your not afk you will have absolutely no problems at all, as you can simply and easily recall your drones. All thats changed is AFK droneboating is threatened, your drones will have a much higher chance of dieing whilst your afk. |
Zanzbar
Seraphim Initiative Paradox Alliance
44
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
They are using the sleeper AI, but they are also going to change a few variables so the npc that are going to use it won't hate drones nearly as much as the sleepers do |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
569
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
In the Dev Blog, they clearly state that the threat level an AI assigns to drones will not be crazy (like sleepers), and that you can keep your drones alive by careful management of your drones. Expect to occasionally replace drones... also, a hint: RR is usually assessed as a high threat when assessing an enemy, so if you fit a RR module to your ship, and activate it on a drone, your ship will probably pull much more aggro than your drones. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1474
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Posted - 2012.10.01 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kitty Bear hit the nail on the head
Quick breakdown is that current NPC AI is about on a par with a rock, they're improving it so it's on a par with a sparrow. NPC's will switch targets and attack your drones or fleetmates if they are seen as a threat. Currently NPCs only attack drones that get too close therefore some people run missions using a "tank" to take all the NPC aggro (1 ship tanks, drones or fleetmates are pretty much invulnerable) this will no longer be possible. Rule #1 of wormholes: Bookmark everything, especially your exit.
---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
132
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Posted - 2012.10.01 22:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Although he's failed to link his source, I guess he is referring to the NPC AI reworking thread .. Hereand is therefore i suppose under the misguided impression that it means instant death to drones as soon as you launch them. He is of course very wrong. It's the sleeper AI, which means they will have improved threat detection, nothing really overly dramatic there. You can keep training for your droneboats. If your not afk you will have absolutely no problems at all, as you can simply and easily recall your drones. All thats changed is AFK droneboating is threatened, your drones will have a much higher chance of dieing whilst your afk.
Couldn't say it better then this.
Don't be afraid to train drones at all, just don't go AFK with them deployed while in a mission and letting them do the work for you.
I point out from the dev blog this part
CCP FoxFour wrote:Will NPC's kill my drones? A) Yes, but they don't hate them nearly as much as sleepers. I ran 9 level 4 missions and lost 2 drones. It does mean you need to pay more attention though. We can adjust their hatred of drones though which is why we are asking for feedback when this hits a test server.
9 Level 4 missions (when you get there) and lost 2 drones. That isn't bad by any means. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1006
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Posted - 2012.10.01 22:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
For what it is worth, I lived in unknown space or "w-space" (wormhole space) for over 2.5 years, and used drones. W-space has NPC called "Sleepers", which are notorious for being drone killers.
Yet using drones was still possible.
Sure, every once in a while the Sleepers would nuke the odd drone, but that typically only happened when it was also webbed so that it couldn't be recalled to the safety of the drone bay. [HINT: Webifiers are a priority target.] Thankfully there are far less webifiers in missions.
When the Sleepers were particularly drone hungry, switching to sentry drones worked as sentries can be instantly recalled to the safety of the drone bay. Some of my corpmates would just switch to a flight of cheap T1 combat drones instead, and not worry as much about them being destroyed.
The care and feeding of drones is important to ensure a long life (both their's and your's), so don't ignore them, use common sense, and you won't have any problem using drones. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2449
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Posted - 2012.10.01 23:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
My drones liked pie, but they will never experience that sweet flavor again because they're dead! "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
316
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Posted - 2012.10.01 23:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Do not believe the people posting mis-information in this thread. I too have also lived in wh's for a long time, and have run Incursions. I am intimately aware of how the Sleeper/Incursion AI works. ANY introduction of this AI to missions will mean you will lose drones, a TON of drones.
The Vexor and Myrmidon, forget it them as viable mission boats. The Domi and Ishtar, if you only use Sentries, well, they will survive, but your DPS is so heavily hammered that there is no point in using the ship. Plus, when using sentries, you will have to stay within 2,000 metres of them. That means speed-tanking a site while letting your drones kill is no longer a viable option.
I encourage all of you to test this on the Duality server as soon as it is up and running again, then post your grievances on the GD forum, here, and of course in the new features testing forum.
Scream loud, scream long, scream everywhere.
Oh, and of course, it has been immensely convenient that apparently that the only person reporting how easy this AI is on drones is the person who built the AI. Supposedly Fox Four is running missions without any problems, but CCP just can't seem to get Duality up and running for everyone else to test this and prove her wrong. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
48
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Posted - 2012.10.02 00:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Wierd, but I use a Gila in a wormhole, and I dont have this "lose a TON of drones problem"
Admittedly I dont have super awesome droneskills yet (ie only T1 Sentry/Heavy Drones), but i can and DO send them 80km+ away ...... I havent lost any drones yet, in several months of wormhole exploration.
How is Drone DPS going to be hammered, DDA's are getting a % increase in thier bonus as explained here.
Only AFK playstyles are negatively affected by this change, and if your AFK then you deserve to lose everything.
p.s. Never feed drones pie, only give them caek!.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1475
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Posted - 2012.10.02 00:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
I used a Myrm with arty and drones for a year or so in WH's & lost very few drones, it's all about keeping an eye on the buggers and recalling them when they get aggro, although it can be like herding cats to get the things to actually attack stuff together. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
1006
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Posted - 2012.10.02 04:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Only AFK playstyles are negatively affected by this change, and if your AFK then you deserve to lose everything. Bingo.
For what it is worth, I currently own two Rattlesnakes. |
Braxus Deninard
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
43
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Posted - 2012.10.02 06:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Honestly, let's just wait until Duality does come up, then we can test it for ourselves and put any preconceived notions to rest. |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn
432
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Do not believe the people posting mis-information in this thread. I too have also lived in wh's for a long time, and have run Incursions. I am intimately aware of how the Sleeper/Incursion AI works. ANY introduction of this AI to missions will mean you will lose drones, a TON of drones.
The Vexor and Myrmidon, forget it them as viable mission boats. The Domi and Ishtar, if you only use Sentries, well, they will survive, but your DPS is so heavily hammered that there is no point in using the ship. Plus, when using sentries, you will have to stay within 2,000 metres of them. That means speed-tanking a site while letting your drones kill is no longer a viable option.
I encourage all of you to test this on the Duality server as soon as it is up and running again, then post your grievances on the GD forum, here, and of course in the new features testing forum.
Scream loud, scream long, scream everywhere.
Oh, and of course, it has been immensely convenient that apparently that the only person reporting how easy this AI is on drones is the person who built the AI. Supposedly Fox Four is running missions without any problems, but CCP just can't seem to get Duality up and running for everyone else to test this and prove her wrong.
The only one spreading mis-information is you.
Went on the test server and ran some missions with new AI, and after two houts of testing lost not one drone. Just pay attention to your drones and recall them when the get aggro.
I just sense an OP who whines cause he soon cant AFK mossion in his Domi. I say NPC must be made even harder. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
127
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
OP, if you can't stand CCP's change in your AFK ISK farming turf and can't handle the loss of the odd drone now and then, then you don't belong to EVE, go back to gold farming in WoW. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
J'Poll
Pioneer's of the Galantic Wars Ethereal Dawn
432
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sin Pew wrote:OP, if you can't stand CCP's change in your AFK ISK farming turf and can't handle the loss of the odd drone now and then, then you don't belong to EVE, go back to gold farming in WoW.
This.
Btw, dont think this belongs in New Citizen Q&A. But that's ISD's job to decide. Inject your skillbook before you leave the station. Neo didnGÇÖt learn Kung-Fu by having it sit in his usb drive.-á If it moves, shoot it. If it doesn't move, poke it with your gun and then shoot it. We are not running, we are advancing in the opposite direction |
Kestutis Fujika
Critical Mass ltd.
3
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Posted - 2012.10.02 07:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
U can recall sentrys fast., but what about heavys? Did u ever tryed recover them from 50km+?
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Sin Pew
Dakini Rising The Kali Cartel
127
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Posted - 2012.10.02 08:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Other people spend ISK on ammos that are lost once fired, how hard is it to lose a few drones now and then? This thread is just GD trollfest material. "haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator." |
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Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1879
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Posted - 2012.10.02 08:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
If you are losing drones to sleepers, perhaps you are not using enough EWAR. Sleepers and Sanshas alike use the Level One AI which hates EWAR and logistics. So fit some ECM, neuts, sensor dampeners, tracking disruptors, anything active that you can use against the NPCs to increase their hate for you.
With the new AI, flying in groups with more experienced pilots will be even more rewarding if you pick the right pilot to fly with. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Matt Grav
Wrath of the Pea
2
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Posted - 2012.10.02 11:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
New players, do yourself a favour, don't listen to the OP !!
To the OP: we get it, you don't like the fact that the NPC will switch to attacking your drones. The point is that they always should have done in the first place.
You'll now have to manage your drones and replace the ones that you do lose. The rest of us have to deal with continually buying ammo and all of the ewar effects that the NPC throw at us.
The new AI is not going to be the sleeper AI, it's a reduced variant of it. Anyway, even if it was Sleeper AI loads of other people appear to successfully use drones against them. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
187
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Posted - 2012.10.02 11:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
OP seems to a be a ******* ******, pardon my French. Amat victoria curam. |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
132
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Posted - 2012.10.02 12:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hia Fokes, So I'm going to issue this only ONCE. The forums are a place to talk get to know people exchange ideas and feelings. This does NOT mean that it is a licence to slander others regardless of how right or how appropriate it might be in whatever situation that comes up.
I have seen a few posts which fall under that category and I have/will remove them. If you disagree with something that someone says explain why and give tips on how to help out the new players on how to avoid losing drones. This is the section for that.
I really dislike locking threads but if this continues with the name calling and such I will lock this one and report the offenders to the appropriate people. Thanks for understanding. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
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Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
230
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Posted - 2012.10.02 13:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Do not believe the people posting mis-information in this thread. I too have also lived in wh's for a long time, and have run Incursions. I am intimately aware of how the Sleeper/Incursion AI works. ANY introduction of this AI to missions will mean you will lose drones, a TON of drones.
This is only true if you are poo at drone control. For everyone else, enjoy the new AI it should make things more real and more fun.
If you have any further thoughts on something i've posted, or want to ask an unrelated question feel free to contact me by EvE Mail or by private conversation if i'm online. BUDDY TRIALS AVAILABLE - 21days plus big ISK bonus and starting assistance |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
316
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Posted - 2012.10.02 15:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
J'Poll wrote: The only one spreading mis-information is you.
Went on the test server and ran some missions with new AI, and after two houts of testing lost not one drone. Just pay attention to your drones and recall them when the get aggro.
I just sense an OP who whines cause he soon cant AFK mossion in his Domi. I say NPC must be made even harder.
ISD, can you please ban people who post outright lies? This joker can't even lie well.
Duality is not up, nor has it been up for some time, so this comment of his is a provable falsehood. Oh, and here is the link, with confirmation from CCP Goliath:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=159401
Of course, this is the modus operandi of the people who want to wipe out high sec. |
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ISD Athechu
ISD STAR
134
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Posted - 2012.10.02 16:14:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:J'Poll wrote: The only one spreading mis-information is you.
Went on the test server and ran some missions with new AI, and after two houts of testing lost not one drone. Just pay attention to your drones and recall them when the get aggro.
I just sense an OP who whines cause he soon cant AFK mossion in his Domi. I say NPC must be made even harder.
ISD, can you please ban people who post outright lies? This joker can't even lie well. Duality is not up, nor has it been up for some time, so this comment of his is a provable falsehood. Oh, and here is the link, with confirmation from CCP Goliath: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=159401Of course, this is the modus operandi of the people who want to wipe out high sec.
1) ISD cannot ban from the forums (which has been stated many times) if you have a problem with someone on the forums please file a petition.
2) He did not say duality there is more then 1(one) Test server. As you stated Duality is not up. But there is Buckingham which is online and is the current Public Test Server since Sisi is getting an overhauled. ( See This Dev blog for more information).
3) You started the topic so please don't whine if others are disagreeing with you and you don't like what they are saying. As I said before constructive discussion is what needs to be held not name calling and other nonsense.
I don't mind arguments as long as they are in a civil way. If it gets out of hand I or another forum moderator will put our foot down. Personally I would rather not have that happen. I am very understanding and lax(sometimes) in my moderation but it's all for good arguments or information(both positive and negative information). But if we cannot have nice things then I will just end it.
Consider this the final notice for this thread. Next time I will put a pad lock on it.
For information on Buckingham please look at this URL: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Buckingham
Edit: made a correction on point 2. ISD Athechu Commander ISD STAR (Support Training and Resources) EVE New Citizens Q&A Resources |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1500
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Posted - 2012.10.02 16:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
^^ Fair mods best mods Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Lyric Lahnder
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
110
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Posted - 2012.10.02 16:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
In lvl 4 missions I dont give two *****.
Oh no incoming fire at my drones.
Recall sentrys redeploy. Takes roughly 3 seconds, A disruption in my dps I can stand.
This is really only bad for people who tend to send mobile drones out to long ranges and leave them on aggresive. Wich right now is a bad Idea even with the current AI.
Mission Domi FTW new AI be damned. Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.comI Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
316
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Posted - 2012.10.02 16:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
I would love to see what the replies would be in CCP decided to halve the falloff on autocannons. I imagine all the people gloating about the destruction of drones as a viable platform would be singing a vastly different tune.
For what's it worth, I have perfect skills (OK, only level IV in specialization) in all weapons systems, so I can switch to a Vargur or Mach with relative ease.
But any new players WILL be hammered hugely by this obliteration of drones. And as for those suggesting putting EWAR on the mission boats, most boats simply don't have the capability, and new pilots CERTAINLY don't have the skills to adjust, even if the boat had the slots to accommodate.
Bottom line, there will be many many tears when this attack hits TQ. But that is precisely what a specific group within the Eve player base and CCP want. |
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