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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9739
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:18:00 -
[91] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:IMO on this point you failed horribly - it takes two charts and a magnifying glass to figure this out now. Its way more complicated then what we already have. No, it's ridiculously simple now since it can be folded into two charts. Good luck doing that with the old system. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1128
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:25:00 -
[92] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Unfortunately, this is actually wrong headed and really against the spirit of eve. Eve's fun (at least for me) comes from its complexity - you are always learning, always seeing and figuring out new things. Eve has always rewarded the person who spends the time to learn the game and its mechanics. If you, make it less complex, you strip the game of its reward to the diligent player. Consequently, you make the game less interesting and rewarding. In effect, by removing its complexity you make the game more causal friendly but at the expense of the hardcore player. And we know how loyal those causal players are....
Complex does not equal better. Being inherently convoluted doesn't make something more entertaining. Under this attitude you are more awesome than rookies who can fall for simple traps because the aggression mechanics are not plainly layed out. They get a few sobering fist fulls of aggression training then what? You go on to a new batch of rookies. This is base mechanics. not high tier strategics. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:28:00 -
[93] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Ah good catch - I didnt realize that suiciding is done. So with this implementation we get: can flipping RIP, Ninja Salvaging RIP, and now Suiciding (for profit) RIP. So empire is finally safe. With eve having one large safe zone and consensual battle zones how is it different from wow? GǪexcept that ninja salvaging still isn't being touched; that canflipping is still just as possible (and, in fact, could even see a boost if you're sly enough); and that ganking for profit under these rules was solved back in April. Darth Gustav wrote:Assuming high-sec war mechanics actually worked (LOL, unlike Greyscale's example of a removed feature "POS Attacks on Aggression"), under the proposed implementation you could clear the field in a high-sec war and then get mauled by lookie-lous as you try to clean up the wrecks. Incorrect. Legal target = legal to loot = no-one can shoot you for taking the spoils of war.
When you say canflipping is still possible - have you actually looked around lately? Barge changes have taken cans largely off the field - so yea canflipping can still theoretically occur - but it wont as a practical matter. As for ninja salvaging - again it can occur, but its not as prevalent because the noc's suck up the wrecks so fast -- add this to the fact that there is always the problem of actually getting them to shoot at you and its just not that much of a factor anymore. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:32:00 -
[94] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Unfortunately, this is actually wrong headed and really against the spirit of eve. Eve's fun (at least for me) comes from its complexity - you are always learning, always seeing and figuring out new things. Eve has always rewarded the person who spends the time to learn the game and its mechanics. If you, make it less complex, you strip the game of its reward to the diligent player. Consequently, you make the game less interesting and rewarding. In effect, by removing its complexity you make the game more causal friendly but at the expense of the hardcore player. And we know how loyal those causal players are....
Complex does not equal better. Being inherently convoluted doesn't make something more entertaining. Under this attitude you are more awesome than rookies who can fall for simple traps because the aggression mechanics are not plainly layed out. They get a few sobering fist fulls of aggression training then what? You go on to a new batch of rookies. This is base mechanics. not high tier strategics.
One of the great things in eve is getting vet null sec players who have forgotten the empire rules to blow themselves up - so its not just a newbee thing...
And as for the newbees -- isnt it better that they learn the harshness of eve early when they lose that 250k isk ship to some act of stupidity rather then at a later date when they have more to lose?
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PinkKnife
L F C Ethereal Dawn
232
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:32:00 -
[95] - Quote
Wait, so the people who were told "here's a rubix cube, go **** yourself" and have learned to do that, are now whining because new people are given an rubix cube that has colors on it?
Sounds like sour grapes to me.
The idea isn't make eve less harsh, its make the UI less harsh. The fundamentals of the game are still there, but you shouldn't be hindered by your ability to, or inability to interact with the environment. In this case, knowing the monstrous complexity that was the aggro system. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
1201
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:35:00 -
[96] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Unfortunately, this is actually wrong headed and really against the spirit of eve. Eve's fun (at least for me) comes from its complexity - you are always learning, always seeing and figuring out new things. Eve has always rewarded the person who spends the time to learn the game and its mechanics. If you, make it less complex, you strip the game of its reward to the diligent player. Consequently, you make the game less interesting and rewarding. In effect, by removing its complexity you make the game more causal friendly but at the expense of the hardcore player. And we know how loyal those causal players are.... Complexity for complexity's sake is stupid. That's not fun gameplay.
So here's a scenario: take a moron and a bad player. Let's say he can't make any ends meet in EvE and he just sucks at everything. Let's say this guy if left to his own devices will be totally unmemorable and never achieve remotely close to his vision. Now let's say some somewhat decent player tosses this looser-guy a bone and let's him in on some weird exception or some unintuitive mechanic that allows this looser-guy to actually start winning fights against weaker opponents because they don't know how the mechanic works. Yay... now looser-guy is winning at something. Of course this looser-guy is going to hate the changes, because his little hidden niche is going away and he has to go back to just being an unimaginative "looser-guy." Looser-guy isn't hardcore... he's not good... he just has an edge on those who are newer and might not have seen this mechanic react this or that way. In many ways, looser-guy is the psudo-PvP equivalent of a margin-scam trader in Jita. However, even the margin scammer knows that he is still a scammer. Looser-guy might not be aware that he is in fact a looser. (*winks at OP*) In this totally hypothetical and not-metaphoric scenario, we can expect looser guy to defend complexity for complexity's sake because exploiting a logical niche or error in the code requires no further thinking than initially discovering the behavior in the game. In effect, it can make you feel smart over and over again even when you are not smart. Of course looser guy is going to defend the hell out of complexity for complexity's sake given it's his sole shot at feeling superior.
You talk about highsec PvP like it's a thing. There are wars and there are ganks in highsec.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1128
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: but its not as prevalent because the noc's suck up the wrecks so fast -- add this to the fact that there is always the problem of actually getting them to shoot at you and its just not that much of a factor anymore.
You keep bring up this lame excuse. Tractor beams wont bring it into their cargo. You sit on top of the noctics and work on looting cans before they can. That's bound to make someone shoot at you. Then you have a perfectly valid limited engagement. within a mission room.
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: And as for the newbees -- isnt it better that they learn the harshness of eve early when they lose that 250k isk ship to some act of stupidity rather then at a later date when they have more to lose?
Which this system still allows in full force. Yet they only ever had to learn can color once. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9741
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:When you say canflipping is still possible - have you actually looked around lately? Yes. There are plenty of cans to be flipped. You just have to look for a different audience.
Quote:As for ninja salvaging - again it can occur, but its not as prevalent because the noc's suck up the wrecks so fast GǪwhich won't happen any more with the new AI (oh, and it didn't stop ninja salvaging anyway since it just made it easier to get to the wrecks GÇö they make your job easier). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1614
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:43:00 -
[99] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
None taken, don't worry.
The primary goal of these changes was to simplify a horrifically complex system to the point where the average player could reasonably be expected to be able to understand approximately how it works.
IMO on this point you failed horribly - it takes two charts and a magnifying glass to figure this out now. Its way more complicated then what we already have. CCP Greyscale wrote: (If, of course, the complaint is actually that these changes reduces the number of people dying because they did something dumb because they didn't understand the mechanics, then yes, this change is absolutely intending to have that effect. We're not bothered about this because EVE should be about winning because you made better decisions, not because the other guy got screwed over by the interface. If you can't win on a level playing field based on better decision-making, you shouldn't be winning at all.)
Unfortunately, this is actually wrong headed and really against the spirit of eve. Eve's fun (at least for me) comes from its complexity - you are always learning, always seeing and figuring out new things. Eve has always rewarded the person who spends the time to learn the game and its mechanics. If you, make it less complex, you strip the game of its reward to the diligent player. Consequently, you make the game less interesting and rewarding. In effect, by removing its complexity you make the game more causal friendly but at the expense of the hardcore player. And we know how loyal those causal players are....
The documentation for the old system is 40 pages long. And that is incomplete. It has this concept of an "engagement", which is kind of an amorphous blob of you and everyone you've fought recently and everyone they've fought recently and so on, which is the cause of eg the old "attack if agression"/"skynet" flag on starbases being so unpredictable; the engagement system on its own is so obtuse that Masterplan doesn't fully understand it, despite having effectively reimplemented it from scratch earlier in the year. I could give you a vague, hand-wavy explanation of roughly what it was doing, but given an arbitrary "complex situation", I couldn't tell you with real certainty what would happen if one player remote-repped another. Trust me, this system is simpler.
As to complexity, yes, EVE needs a certain amount of complexity, because that's necessary for the real goal, which is tactical and strategic depth. That's a goal because we want players to be winning based on having better judgment and better decision-making than the other guy/girl. Complex is NOT the same as complicated, and it's certainly not the same thing as obfuscated. The goal is to get as large a (useful) possibility space as possible out of as small a number of variables as possible, because simplicity is a virtue. Go basically has two rules. It's really goddamn simple. It's also sufficiently complex that there's no halfway-decent Go AI in existence. That's where we want to be aiming for. |
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:44:00 -
[100] - Quote
Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. |
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
773
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 21:45:00 -
[101] - Quote
Andski wrote:Wait, does this mean that dudes won't be able to park their T3s in neutral Orcas which they immediately jump into hisec when a fight goes south?
Finally.
If this is [True] then: FINALLY !!
Now, nerf/burn to the ground OGB+flag (assistance) and things will get interesting.
brb |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
773
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest.
Well you either look for pvp because you know, you're a pvp fan, and you are happy/accept any one can engage you because you'll get moar kills !! Or you can try mining/gaz harvesting, those don't shoot back and whatever happens those are allways victims.
brb |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:51:00 -
[103] - Quote
ITT: people that think PvP is "a style of gameplay" and also "shooting someone else."
(it's not) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9742
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Now, nerf/burn to the ground OGB+flag (assistance) and things will get interesting. By the sounds of it, it's comingGǪ
Neutral support will already be kicked in the shin (hard) in CW2.0, and they're apparently hatching plans for fleet boosting as well.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1129
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:ITT: people that think PvP is "a style of gameplay" and also "shooting someone else."
(it's not) Then steal via contracts, trading and espionage. you know, things that don't cause flags. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1455
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:53:00 -
[106] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest.
Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid? ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2535
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:57:00 -
[107] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid?
Unless the crime itself extended past state lines (cybercrimes have made this much easier to do) the person would need to be extradited in order to be prosecuted "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2723
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Posted - 2012.10.04 21:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
ISD TYPE40 wrote:captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid?
But surely if I steal from a person on the street, the law should protect me from all interference by third parties with the use of deadly force, right? |
Khaim Khal
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
6
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:01:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:As to complexity, yes, EVE needs a certain amount of complexity, because that's necessary for the real goal, which is tactical and strategic depth. That's a goal because we want players to be winning based on having better judgment and better decision-making than the other guy/girl. Complex is NOT the same as complicated, and it's certainly not the same thing as obfuscated. The goal is to get as large a (useful) possibility space as possible out of as small a number of variables as possible, because simplicity is a virtue. Go basically has two rules. It's really goddamn simple. It's also sufficiently complex that there's no halfway-decent Go AI in existence. That's where we want to be aiming for.
I may print this onto a stick and beat people with it until they agree with me. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1320
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:01:00 -
[110] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid? But surely if I steal from a person on the street, the law should protect me from all interference by third parties with the use of deadly force, right? This.
You are not authorized to podkill a purse-snatcher as a private citizen. That's criminal vigilantism, not law enforcement. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2535
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:02:00 -
[111] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid? But surely if I steal from a person on the street, the law should protect me from all interference by third parties with the use of deadly force, right?
In some states, yes
In the words of certain Alabama law enforcement people...
"Aim for the leg, if you miss oh well"
and "If you shoot him on your porch, drag him inside before we get there" "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:10:00 -
[112] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:captain foivos wrote:ITT: people that think PvP is "a style of gameplay" and also "shooting someone else."
(it's not) Then steal via contracts, trading and espionage. you know, things that don't cause flags.
You aren't getting what I'm saying here. Read it again. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1457
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:13:00 -
[113] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Destination SkillQueue wrote:ISD TYPE40 wrote:captain foivos wrote:Flagging someone who steals from someone else's wreck to everyone is pants-on-head stupid.
However, I expected nothing less of CCP as it was, so this change does not surprise me in the slightest. Someone who steals is a criminal. To draw a fairly loose comparison, in real life someone who commits a crime in one state/county is still a criminal when they cross state/county lines. This is merely an adaptation of that for EVE. How is that stupid? But surely if I steal from a person on the street, the law should protect me from all interference by third parties with the use of deadly force, right? This. You are not authorized to podkill a purse-snatcher as an uninvolved private citizen. That's criminal vigilantism, not law enforcement.
As I said, it was a loose comparison. In real life, many countries allow its citizens to perform a citizens arrest allowing for the detention, with use of reasonable force, of suspected criminals. The equivalent in EVE gets you shot at. Hopefully I've cleared that up for you. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
964
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:45:00 -
[114] - Quote
I was trying to construct another long, argumentative response, but I simply couldn't do it. I'm speechless. The fact that Greyscale thinks that flagging petty can thieves to the whole universe is "preserving balance" and somehow isn't completely nonsensical is beyond my comprehension.
It seems to me that EVE is finally reaching its logical conclusion. The devs can try to misdirect attention to the "code" and tell us how they're only doing this to make it simpler etc etc, but the fact remains that the removal of empire aggression is clearly on their agenda. You can feed us the "if we wanted it gone, we'd just remove it" line all you want, but most of us aren't gullible enough to think that you want a slow melt instead of an avalanche. You obviously don't want to collapse the game overnight, and are spreading out your pacification strategy over a couple of years in the hope that on one will notice.
CCP Greyscale wrote:I could give you a vague, hand-wavy explanation of roughly what it was doing, but given an arbitrary "complex situation", I couldn't tell you with real certainty what would happen if one player remote-repped another. Trust me, this system is simpler. I can. I can tell you exactly what will happen if one player remote-repped another, because I play the game.
I can't help but wonder if you go to sleep each night with a massive grin on your face, knowing that your grand plan is finally coming to fruition. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
1617
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
Real life analogies have never convinced anyone of anything ever
The reason that stealing flags you to everyone is pretty simple: there's not an obviously better solution that doesn't add a ton of complexity. We're kicking around the idea of replacing the suspect flag with an LE in this case, but it's making my spider-sense tingle, and in any case we want to use LEs as little as we can possibly get away with because they make the situation inherently less readable than global flags. We'll have a proper look at it in a couple of weeks when we have time to do a full exploration, but there's a good chance the current plan will go ahead, because it's simple and it's good enough for most of the cases we care about. |
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Kaildoth
Generic Corp.
10
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:46:00 -
[116] - Quote
Yea because every single new player will have 10 people protecting him while he mines. So your industrial will have a hard time looting the wreck, warping to a station and docking. Dont worry you can still do your can flips and be proud of yourself for taking the hard work of a new player....
CCP Greyscale wrote: We're kicking around the idea of replacing the suspect flag with an LE in this case, but it's making my spider-sense tingle
No, dont remove the suspect flag for can flips, and in my opinion it should be changed to criminal flag. These risk-less isk should end. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Ascendance.
386
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:50:00 -
[117] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Real life analogies have never convinced anyone of anything ever The reason that stealing flags you to everyone is pretty simple: there's not an obviously better solution that doesn't add a ton of complexity. We're kicking around the idea of replacing the suspect flag with an LE in this case, but it's making my spider-sense tingle, and in any case we want to use LEs as little as we can possibly get away with because they make the situation inherently less readable than global flags. We'll have a proper look at it in a couple of weeks when we have time to do a full exploration, but there's a good chance the current plan will go ahead, because it's simple and it's good enough for most of the cases we care about. You mean when the player base can test the code in client and find 25 play cases that can be exploited When is this code going to be playable any way, all Goliath says is no sooner then the 19th every time I ask |
Methesda
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2012.10.04 22:56:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kaildoth wrote:
No, dont remove the suspect flag for can flips, and in my opinion it should be changed to criminal flag. These risk-less isk should end.
So instead of riskless can-flipping, we have riskless solo mining. Sorry, invalid argument for me. Eve is about the journey.-á If you are so focused on making money, that you insist on having the tools to make it be made as autonomous and easy as possible, then you are never going to have as much fun as I will.
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Miyammato Musashi
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.10.04 23:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
I wonder why everyone is only talking about this in the context of highsec gankers... Who cares? I mean is there anyone out there that actually does piracy or gatecamps or hunts pirates that actually thinks the new crimewatch is a bad idea? It's going to give us a lot of new situations to deal with in lowsec, I'll tell you.
So when I'm sitting cloaked in Tama on Nour gate waiting to ninja someone who dies, there's already a lot going on. You'll have caldari FW guys on the gate. They generally don't enguage anyone b/c of the GCC save WTs. If pirates come in they jump away. There'sll be some Gallente FW people floating around or cloaked at a distance trying to draw caldari off gate. They won't attack any non-WTs either b/c then they might not be able to jump. There are packs of pirates just trying to land in the middle of as many ships as possible. They'll attack anything they can hit. There'll be some neutral guys watching and maybe a few guys that are "good guys" going after pirates (as long as they outnumber the pirates otherwise they are outta there). Lot of different motivations for holding fire or whatever there. The new crimewatch will bring us other "states" of aggression as well as change the damage output and behavior of gate guns (and station guns I assume). The potential combinations of "aggression states" at standoffs by lowsec gates (just for example cuz' it's what I know) will increase, leading to more possible outcomes. We can come up with new gameplay here is the long and short of it. ...maybe actually get some real changes to player behavior. I mean... when's the last time that actually happened? I think we'll wake up one morning in early December and lowsec is going to be a whole new ballgame. |
Kaildoth
Generic Corp.
10
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Posted - 2012.10.04 23:06:00 -
[120] - Quote
Methesda wrote:Kaildoth wrote:
No, dont remove the suspect flag for can flips, and in my opinion it should be changed to criminal flag. These risk-less isk should end.
So instead of riskless can-flipping, we have riskless solo mining. Sorry, invalid argument for me.
Forget about the criminal flag (thats my opinion). At the moment with the system CCP wants to introduce, can you still take the can or not? Yes you can, but now you have a minimal risk, the suspect flag. Adapt.
Oh by the way, building modules is riskless, noone can stop your manufacture job, lets change that right? You really dont know what riskless isk is. |
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