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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9763
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Posted - 2012.10.05 15:41:00 -
[211] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:As for ganking freighters, Tippia's solution requires an additional ship just to make it almost as viable as before. I guarantee you we're going to see less freighter ganks because of Crimewatch. Given how many ships are being used in a gank, and how easy it is for one of them to pull double duty, my solution for making it as viable as before means any of the auxiliary ships will be able to do the job. So the manpower remains the same. It might give that last guy a bit more exposure, but that's about itGǪ
Interesting side-note: he tactic to get a freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid ganks can be used to get a looting freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid being counter-ganked. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
854
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Posted - 2012.10.05 17:15:00 -
[212] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:As for ganking freighters, Tippia's solution requires an additional ship just to make it almost as viable as before. I guarantee you we're going to see less freighter ganks because of Crimewatch. Given how many ships are being used in a gank, and how easy it is for one of them to pull double duty, my solution for making it as viable as before means any of the auxiliary ships will be able to do the job. So the manpower remains the same. It might give that last guy a bit more exposure, but that's about itGǪ Interesting side-note: he tactic to get a freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid ganks can be used to get a looting freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid being counter-ganked. Did you seriously just say a ganker ship could web the freighter looting the ganked freighter wreck? I don't even know what to say to that.
Not to mention the freighter looting is in more danger than a mere gank. Any Joe Schmo with a warp disrupter will be on that freighter in less time than it takes that webbed freighter to align. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Fairlight Avionics -affliction-
16
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Posted - 2012.10.05 17:19:00 -
[213] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Myxx wrote: ... How do you respond to the accusation you specifically want to make Highsec completely safe with no risk whatsoever?
If we wanted to do that then we would've spent a month putting in code that stopped you from committing crimes in the first place, rather than a year overhauling the system that gives interesting consequences for committing crimes.
Seems more like trying to maintain the illusion hisec is still a sandbox, while caving into carebear WoW safety net demands of miners and mission runners. If it was just about making things 'clearer' to the carebears you wouldn't go that extra step in making a theft 'suspect' attackable by EVERYONE for 15 MINUTES (WTF?)
If you had of made the thief a suspect only to those on-grid who 'saw' the theft, then I could buy the notion of balance; or if you had of put the suspect timer at only 1 minute instead of 15 so the entire galaxy didn't have time to re-ship in pvp fits and flood the system at the newbs aid....but no...you have gone WAY overboard in balance fail to effectively nerf flipping in hisec entirely.
Every 'remedy' to an issue you guys conceptualize should be measured by the 'are we nerfing or WoW'ifying EVE' stick, and if you go beyond 'better communication' into the 'nerf' realm you are fail...
IMHO... Killboard |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2498
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Posted - 2012.10.05 17:30:00 -
[214] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:As for ganking freighters, Tippia's solution requires an additional ship just to make it almost as viable as before. I guarantee you we're going to see less freighter ganks because of Crimewatch. Given how many ships are being used in a gank, and how easy it is for one of them to pull double duty, my solution for making it as viable as before means any of the auxiliary ships will be able to do the job. So the manpower remains the same. It might give that last guy a bit more exposure, but that's about itGǪ Interesting side-note: he tactic to get a freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid ganks can be used to get a looting freighter into warp in 3s flat in order to avoid being counter-ganked. Did you seriously just say a ganker ship could web the freighter looting the ganked freighter wreck? I don't even know what to say to that. Not to mention the freighter looting is in more danger than a mere gank. Any Joe Schmo with a warp disrupter will be on that freighter in less time than it takes that webbed freighter to align. Yes, your loot pickup freighter would have a small window of vulnerability, very small if you are doing it right.
Having your freighter at risk of being counter ganked is an amusing risk you'd need to accept.
Your situational awareness of the ships within disruption range would need to improve. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9763
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Posted - 2012.10.05 17:53:00 -
[215] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Did you seriously just say a ganker ship could web the freighter looting the ganked freighter wreck? No, not one of the ganker ships because they'll go poof before they can do anything, but rather a compleeeetely unrelated third party who just so happens to be around anyway because his services are needed forGǪ other things.
Quote:Not to mention the freighter looting is in more danger than a mere gank. Any Joe Schmo with a warp disrupter will be on that freighter in less time than it takes that webbed freighter to align. Seeing as how he'll insta-warp as soon as he goes suspect, that will be quite a feat.
Anyway, you know all those gems of wisdom we like to dole out whenever someone comes around to complain about how there was nothing he could do to keep his freighter from being ganked? Yeah, those work both ways, and now it's your freighter that needs to avoid being ganked.
Really, the only problem I can see with this change is that moons in Niarja will become a very rare commodityGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
855
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:01:00 -
[216] - Quote
Fair enough, then. That assuages my concerns. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9763
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:11:00 -
[217] - Quote
GǪin fact, come to think of it, I should probably go and start copying my Vigil BPs. But shhhh! GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:36:00 -
[218] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:[quote=CCP Greyscale][quote=Myxx] ...
Seems more like trying to maintain the illusion hisec is still a sandbox, while caving into carebear WoW safety net demands of miners and mission runners.
Yea I think this is point on. CCP wants it both ways - they like saying eve is a cold hard universe, but they want all those wow players - so they soften up the game while still marketing it as open world pvp. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
157
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:43:00 -
[219] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:La Nariz wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:~crimewatch stuff~ How will Crimewatch affect looting of ganked ships? It seems that this suspect flag change will make ganking harder which decreases risk in highsec, will there be a proportional decrease in highsec reward to compensate for this? Ganking, not at all harder. Looting from ganks, somewhat harder. Not impossible. Yes, your loot haulers are going to be vulnerable in the time between picking up the loot and going into warp. You're EVE players. You can figure out how to minimize that period of vulnerability.
Thanks for the response but, how is nerfing looting after ganks not nerfing ganking itself? Looting is part of the act of ganking, specifically its the reward portion of a gank. Without looting gankers are left with all of the risk yet no reward. This is a pretty clear nerf to ganking which is a decrease in risk for highsec. It really seems like risk : reward is being destroyed with the constant nerfs to highsec risk but no nerfs to highsec reward. What I'm getting at here is myself and several other players don't like to see highsec risk constantly being nerfed while highsec reward remains the same. If this trend continues what exactly is the point of the other security status levels? We could make the same reward but with far less risk so there really isn't a reason for us to exist in the other security status areas. I like how Crimewatch2 is simplifying aggression and cleaning up old code but I don't like the decrease of risk in highsec it brings. I do hope that either the highsec risk or reward will eventually be balanced out so it does not marginalize the other security status areas. Goonwaffe is now recruiting feel free to message me in game for information about joining! |
Gaia Ma'chello
V.I.C.E.
29
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:45:00 -
[220] - Quote
With preparation the pickup freighter needs no help.
Pickup freighter pilot sets many many BMs around the gate, at range, off grid. On arrival at gank site, freighter pilot picks a BM that is close to a line between himself and the target wreck. Freighter pilot aligns to BM. When passing the wreck the freighter pilot loots, then hits warp. As he is already at speed, he warps right away. Freighter pilot logs while in warp to start that 60 second timer as soon as possible.
With a little help (a "warp to me" buddy) the freighter pilot does not even need BMs. The buddy pre-positions himself so the freighter pilot, on arriving at his buddy's location, can align to a celestial. Make it a celestial that is far away, so the 60 second log off timer will expire while the freighter is in warp.
Note: The freighter log off timer will always be 60 seconds. To make it 15 minutes he needs to have a PvP flag, and that requires he shoot someone. He cannot do that with a freighter. |
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
156
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:53:00 -
[221] - Quote
I have to admit...at first I was a bit disappointed and I did not react in the friendliest way. But Greyscale, You know what? - All you are going to achieve is that the existing pirate entities in High/Low/Null and wh are going to become even more organized and just kill everything that is possible rather than sometimes let someone pass...
So you will need to put some more effort in nerfing piracy next time. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9764
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Posted - 2012.10.05 18:57:00 -
[222] - Quote
Gaia Ma'chello wrote:Note: The freighter log off timer will always be 60 seconds. To make it 15 minutes he needs to have a PvP flag, and that requires he shoot someone. GǪor be shot by someone, but since he'll be in warp the instant he becomes a legal target, it's going to be difficult to tag him with a P-flag. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Savira Terrant
Valhollr
9
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Posted - 2012.10.06 11:48:00 -
[223] - Quote
Really, i am sorry to say this, but everyone who thinks piracy in highsec is unreasonable now, might want to go back to WoW. That's because those of you are not clever enough to notice, that PVP just got more hardcore than before this proposal. As real EVE players you should REJOICE that the PVP you are doing now needs more of your ability to think.
I am so sorry (not) for you guys that you cannot kill people anymore who were misinformed or plain not informed. How was that even hardcore? Oh, you killed the poor noob in his mission ship? What a GREAT pvp'er you are. Here, have a candy.
Every game needs to have a room for different game styles (let alone for new players). One of those is to just amass money and not to care about anything else. In an environment where caring about anything else is not needed. In the end we all share the love for spaceships!
Of course arguably, the place in EVE to do that might be too big and the means of amassing ISK in that area might be too powerful, but I have the hopes up that at least the latter might change in the future.
What I want to say, hell give the newbs and noobs their space, who cares? And if you want to have a "real" sense of achievement, come fight in low and wormhole space (and null space), where all the real hardcore EVE Online is going on.
Only because some players in EVE don't participate in PvP does not mean EVE is not hardcore. EVE is hardcore in many ways, not just PvP. Don't neglect everyone else because YOU do PvP.
I for one am glad to have a game with a diverse community, that I can play different styles depending on my mood.
And always remember, use your head to exploit the system and the loot will be yours anyway! |
Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
27
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Posted - 2012.10.06 17:16:00 -
[224] - Quote
Tippia wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Simpler is not better. Yes it is, in particular if, as in this case, it removes difficulty that stems from things being pointlessly convoluted. Quote:When that hauler is a freighter, yes it's considerably more difficult. Not really, no. Just use the same quick-warp techniques that would have saved the original freighter. Or, if he carries the right loot, use a sacrificial lamb and an Orca (or two). Oh, and just nuke the competition and steal their stuff as well, legally.
Wow, I swear to god you are CCP Greyscales Game alt that never plays ingame.
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Tysinger
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
27
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Posted - 2012.10.06 17:28:00 -
[225] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:Pretty sure we are referred to as "The Bad Guys". Because if you're trying to PVP in this PVP game you obviously deserve to be at every possible disadvantage for engaging in an undesirable activity. problem with you is not "i try to PVP in this PVP game" but "i want risk-free PVP in this PVP game". because when I TRY to PVP i engage people who does PVP. And new CW makes it more interesting to me. GOD it would be nice to just drop can on Dodixie undock with alt and take it with main just to watch whole area shooting at me Because... Because i don't worry about loosing fight. So should you "risk averse PVP gods"
Really? you have no fkn clue do you lolol |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
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Posted - 2012.10.10 13:13:00 -
[226] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:Really, i am sorry to say this, but everyone who thinks piracy in highsec is unreasonable now, might want to go back to WoW. That's because those of you are not clever enough to notice, that PVP just got more hardcore than before this proposal. As real EVE players you should REJOICE that the PVP you are doing now needs more of your ability to think. I am so sorry (not) for you guys that you cannot kill people anymore who were misinformed or plain not informed. How was that even hardcore? Oh, you killed the poor noob in his mission ship? What a GREAT pvp'er you are. Here, have a candy. Every game needs to have a room for different game styles (let alone for new players). One of those is to just amass money and not to care about anything else. In an environment where caring about anything else is not needed. In the end we all share the love for spaceships! Of course arguably, the place in EVE to do that might be too big and the means of amassing ISK in that area might be too powerful, but I have the hopes up that at least the latter might change in the future. What I want to say, hell give the newbs and noobs their space, who cares? And if you want to have a "real" sense of achievement, come fight in low and wormhole space (and null space), where all the real hardcore EVE Online is going on. Only because some players in EVE don't participate in PvP does not mean EVE is not hardcore. EVE is hardcore in many ways, not just PvP. Don't neglect everyone else because YOU do PvP. I for one am glad to have a game with a diverse community, that I can play different styles depending on my mood. And always remember, use your head to exploit the system and the loot will be yours anyway!
What you fail to understand is that what we call "pvp" is actual points of interaction between players in a game. While the new update tinkered with the rules for how players fought with each other, it also eliminated or made significantly more difficult the means for obtaining interaction between players, thus driving down the amount of available pvp. PVP therefore did not become more hardcore - it simply became more rare.
In effect CCP is saying if you want to pvp go to low and null, but that is not why many players are here. I personally have little interest in engaging in consensual pvp. I started playing eve because of its "open world" traits. Of course it was not a perfect open world model, but still, you could be the hunter -- the wolf looking for sheep. But now CCP is saying this game is more wow like then you may have known -- its not really an open world game at all, its more of safe zone with consensual battle fields. I find that unfortunate -- almost like a bait and switch on ccp's part. Hopefully crimewatch will not be as bad in implementation as it appears it will be but I guess we will just have to wait and see.
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Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
266
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Posted - 2012.10.10 14:08:00 -
[227] - Quote
Does anyone seriously think the serious gank groups are not going to be able to organise thier pick ups properly? All that will change is some randoms trying freighter ganks out will get thier own freighter ganked by others waiting to gank freighters. So one more dead freighter, yay. Plus the possible random passing freighter pilot looting your kill before you just got even more unlikely. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
411
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Posted - 2012.10.10 14:12:00 -
[228] - Quote
The direction EVE - or at least hisec - is heading is crystal bloody clear at this point. CCP want the wowbears. They want them BAD. That means making hisec as safe as possible. Bring in incredible isk rewards for hisec baddies with incursions. Buff mining ships by an insane amount. Ramp up the prices for war decs and allow defenders to drag in allies to help. The newest failwatch mechanics... it all reeks of caving into the carebear idiots. EVE is not the harsh universe it once was.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2778
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Posted - 2012.10.10 14:19:00 -
[229] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:The direction EVE - or at least hisec - is heading is crystal bloody clear at this point. CCP want the wowbears. They want them BAD. That means making hisec as safe as possible. Bring in incredible isk rewards for hisec baddies with incursions. Buff mining ships by an insane amount. Ramp up the prices for war decs and allow defenders to drag in allies to help. The newest failwatch mechanics... it all reeks of caving into the carebear idiots. EVE is not the harsh universe it once was.
Funny how harsher player enforced consequenses for criminals means the game isn't harsh anymore. What's the matter? Ganking isn't as cool when it isn't safe and predictable? CCP isn't preventing players from doing anything they couldn't do before. Some of them are just too cowardly to continue doing it when there is even a chance of actual PvP happening. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
49
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 14:25:00 -
[230] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:The direction EVE - or at least hisec - is heading is crystal bloody clear at this point. CCP want the wowbears. They want them BAD. That means making hisec as safe as possible. Bring in incredible isk rewards for hisec baddies with incursions. Buff mining ships by an insane amount. Ramp up the prices for war decs and allow defenders to drag in allies to help. The newest failwatch mechanics... it all reeks of caving into the carebear idiots. EVE is not the harsh universe it once was.
Funny how harsher player enforced consequenses for criminals means the game isn't harsh anymore. What's the matter? Ganking isn't as cool when it isn't safe and predictable? CCP isn't preventing players from doing anything they couldn't do before. Some of them are just too cowardly to continue doing it when there is even a chance of actual PvP happening.
Player enforced consequences would be cool if there was actual crime to fight against. But while with one hand ccp gives players tools to enforce consequences with the other hand ccp removes the crimes for which the consequences could be applied against. Whats the point of having a tool if you cant use it? |
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
68
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Posted - 2012.10.10 15:09:00 -
[231] - Quote
I'm struggling to understand a point raised by the OP
1) How exactly does the Noctis prevent someone from ninja-salvaging? 2) And how does Ninja-Salavaging affect the crimewatch system, as salvaging doesn't activate any of the flags ?
If you could clarify your original statement Vol Arm'OOO, and explain how it impacts my 2 queries I'd appreciate a lot, thanks. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1583
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Posted - 2012.10.10 17:01:00 -
[232] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:I'm struggling to understand a point raised by the OP
1) How exactly does the Noctis prevent someone from ninja-salvaging? 2) And how does Ninja-Salavaging affect the crimewatch system, as salvaging doesn't activate any of the flags ?
If you could clarify your original statement Vol Arm'OOO, and explain how it impacts my 2 queries I'd appreciate a lot, thanks.
Common sense & reason has no place in this thread , people have pointed out the above multiple times, the OP and his cronies just ignore it and keep bleating about how crimewatch makes their game untenable. Maybe they should follow the advice that they've been handing out for years, HTFU & adapt or GBTW also obligatory tears comment.
Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
52
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Posted - 2012.10.10 18:21:00 -
[233] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:I'm struggling to understand a point raised by the OP
1) How exactly does the Noctis prevent someone from ninja-salvaging? 2) And how does Ninja-Salavaging affect the crimewatch system, as salvaging doesn't activate any of the flags ?
If you could clarify your original statement Vol Arm'OOO, and explain how it impacts my 2 queries I'd appreciate a lot, thanks. Common sense & reason has no place in this thread , people have pointed out the above multiple times, the OP and his cronies just ignore it and keep bleating about how crimewatch makes their game untenable. Maybe they should follow the advice that they've been handing out for years, HTFU & adapt or GBTW also obligatory tears comment.
Jezze you guys keep asking and you keep ignoring the answers and the issues. The noc doesnt make ninja salvaging impossible - it makes it more difficult. It can simply vacuum the wrecks faster then you can get to them. Now some folk claim they work around it by sitting on top of the noc etc. . . Maybe they can -- good for them, but for us mere mortals, its become more difficult. As for the second issue of how ninja salvaging impacts crimewatch -- the whole point of the activity is to get the missioner angry enough to shoot at you. The salvage you obtain is kinda meaningless. There are only a handful of ways players can acquire aggro on a ship to ship basis in this game -- ninja salvaging was one means and since its been made harder, its logical that the amount of pvp obtained from such activities would go down. And "HTFU & adapt" is kinda a funny thing for you to say when what you mean is that you really like hello kitty online and cannot wait until ccp completes eve's transmorgafication into HKO's clone. |
Benilopax
Solar Storm Intrepid Crossing
368
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:00:00 -
[234] - Quote
The one thing I have always loved about EVE is the CONSEQUENCES of your actions.
This new system allows people to be the scum of the galaxy, as it should be, it's just you have to deal with the CONSEQUENCES of your actions.
What people really want is a way to act bad and not have to think about how that might come back around to hurt them.
HTFU EVE Racing event thread:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107164&find=unread
Join in game channel/mailing list: New Eden Racing |
Jonah Gravenstein
Mahatma Cote Temporal Research
1583
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:09:00 -
[235] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: Jezze you guys keep asking and you keep ignoring the answers and the issues. The noc doesnt make ninja salvaging impossible - it makes it more difficult. It can simply vacuum the wrecks faster then you can get to them. Now some folk claim they work around it by sitting on top of the noc etc. . . Maybe they can -- good for them, but for us mere mortals, its become more difficult. As for the second issue of how ninja salvaging impacts crimewatch -- the whole point of the activity is to get the missioner angry enough to shoot at you. The salvage you obtain is kinda meaningless. There are only a handful of ways players can acquire aggro on a ship to ship basis in this game -- ninja salvaging was one means and since its been made harder, its logical that the amount of pvp obtained from such activities would go down. And "HTFU & adapt" is kinda a funny thing for you to say when what you mean is that you really like hello kitty online and cannot wait until ccp completes eve's transmorgafication into HKO's clone.
I'd rephrase that if I was you, ninja salvaging has NEVER given an aggro flag, ninja LOOTING does, there's a sizable difference between merely salvaging a wreck and looting it .
If you're trying to ninja to get aggro once a noctis is on the field you're doing it wrong, do it before the noctis gets there while the mission runner is still shooting at NPCs and you stand a better chance of finding someone stupid enough to shoot at you, the new NPC aggro mechanics will also curtail mission runners multiboxing with a noctis on the field, don't see them whining about it.
Whilst on the subject why don't you whine about the ability to set all wrecks as abandoned? that also removes your chances of getting into a fight that you know you can win. Homo sapiens non urinat in ventum -á-á-á ---CCP can't patch stupid--- |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
68
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Posted - 2012.10.10 19:12:00 -
[236] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Common sense & reason has no place in this thread ,
oops, my bad.
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