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Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
227
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 02:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:if cw2 does anything, it's gonna make highsec pvp'ers man up. if they can't handle it then tough - they were never meant to be pvp'ers. No, it's just going to make them use bigger fleets, and even more RR than they do today. bigger fleet - so to get a good fight, one will need to man/team up and fight instead of dicking with cans. that's a plus. logi - neut RR is now in cross-hairs. that's a BIG plus. morons tripping out new guys - fail. that's a plus. bring it. Have you ever encountered RR on a large scale? It's hardly what can objectively be called a "good fight." In fact, 99% of the time it's not a fight at all. Sounds to me like you're speaking from an uninformed carebear's perspective. Been buffed by RR on a large scale countless times - but the guys doing the RR could be SHOT.
(I got beefs about RR and ECM in fleet fights too but it's a different problem than the OP so won't go there). |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 02:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Look bro, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what kind of flag you give a person; you're still not going to be doing anything about the dozen Legion-boosted Guardians he has on standby. That's exactly what will happen. The only people doing can theft will be those who are capable of having this kind of backup. Your white knights are going to be entirely ineffectual against them, but the 3-month-old Rifter pilot will be forced out of the baiting profession entirely.
Is this what we want? More blobs? Is this an objectively beneficial change for the game? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1527
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 03:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Look bro, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what kind of flag you give a person; you're still not going to be doing anything about the dozen Legion-boosted Guardians he has on standby. That's exactly what will happen. The only people doing can theft will be those who are capable of having this kind of backup. Your white knights are going to be entirely ineffectual against them, but the 3-month-old Rifter pilot will be forced out of the baiting profession entirely.
Is this what we want? More blobs? Is this an objectively beneficial change for the game? Sure. Next time perhaps ccp can work on removing a bit more of the famed:
Highsec PVP Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2492
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 06:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
Whether it's a "safety" or a pop up dialogue, you underestimate the tendency of your average high sec resident to ignore or turn them off.
While you may see a slight decrease in (for lack of a better term) illegitimate combat in high sec, other mechanics coming into being or being tweaked look quite likely to make legitimate combat far easier and more common. I'm referring to the bounty system, transferable kill rights, tweaks to the War Dec system, Ally system, and the delayed introduction of the mercenary market place... not to mention the likely implementation of a voluntary "Duel" or Limited Engagement system.
Frankly even that potential slight decrease in illegitimate combat will be temporary at best, it will be incredibly easy to make yourself a tempting target and otherwise manipulate the system to your advantage whenever you wish.
The methods may change somewhat, but the end result will at worst stay the same... and quite probably end up with more combat in high sec than ever before. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:While you may see a slight decrease in (for lack of a better term) illegitimate combat in high sec, other mechanics coming into being or being tweaked look quite likely to make legitimate combat far easier and more common. I'm referring to the bounty system, transferable kill rights, tweaks to the War Dec system, Ally system, and the delayed introduction of the mercenary market place... not to mention the likely implementation of a voluntary "Duel" or Limited Engagement system. The new war/ally system has significantly reduced the amount of wars waged in empire space. I've been checking out how many unique wars get declared every day post-Inferno, and the number is around 30-40. While I don't have concrete numbers for the pre-Inferno war volume (if you can convince CCP to give me some raw data, I'll make you some pretty graphs), some quick analysis of active war-focused corporations' war histories shows that the rate of outgoing wars has decreased to like a third of what it was before. You can blame the increased cost and the fact that it's no longer possible to cancel wars for this drop.
I agree that transferable kill rights are likely to create a slight bump in pvp, though I've yet to see this "mercenary market" people keep talking about.
Since the "duel" system will just replace can-flagging, it's unlikely to result in an increase in pvp. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
589
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:04:00 -
[36] - Quote
Hisec keeps getting safer because it keeps getting emptier. From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
102
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dirael Papier wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:You're hunting stupid people remember. Take can. burn off timer as you mock them for doing a miserable profession. if they don't engage within the allotted time and your timer ends, drop the loot, say you were just busting his balls and wait for them to naively take it back. Then pop. Think of new interesting ways to disparage new players. It's easy. They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first.
No, the safety switch won't stop them from taking the can.
They are allowed to take the can without repercussions, because suspect's cans are free for anyone to take without penalty.
So the way it works is: Rifter flips a Retriever's can. (Oh wait, Retrievers don't need jetcans anymore....well, lets just pretend, shall we?) Rifter gets Suspect flag. Retriever spawns a new can and takes his ore back.
Rifter cannot engage Retriever. Anyone can engage Rifter, miner keeps ore.
Of course, miners don't use jetcans anymore due to OP Retrievers and Macks.......
|
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
55
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:27:00 -
[38] - Quote
Will go dramatically up as people science around with it. Then will come crashing down when someone documents every bit of it. Then will go back up if someone finds some absurd way to profit from it. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bart Starr wrote:Dirael Papier wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:You're hunting stupid people remember. Take can. burn off timer as you mock them for doing a miserable profession. if they don't engage within the allotted time and your timer ends, drop the loot, say you were just busting his balls and wait for them to naively take it back. Then pop. Think of new interesting ways to disparage new players. It's easy. They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first. No, the safety switch won't stop them from taking the can. They are allowed to take the can without repercussions, because suspect's cans are free for anyone to take without penalty. So the way it works is: Rifter flips a Retriever's can. (Oh wait, Retrievers don't need jetcans anymore....well, lets just pretend, shall we?) Rifter gets Suspect flag. Retriever spawns a new can and takes his ore back. Rifter cannot engage Retriever. Anyone can engage Rifter, miner keeps ore. Of course, miners don't use jetcans anymore due to OP Retrievers and Macks....... Focused on the aggro rights aspect of Crimewatch, I kind of overlooked this myself. You make an interesting point, really. Even not considering aggro rights, can-baiting is nullified.
Unless, of course, you use a second account to take your suspect character's stuff and then re-jettison it into a non-suspect can.
Genius move by CCP to get people to buy more accounts. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1289
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 07:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Genius move by CCP to get people to buy more accounts. If you can't grow the game, convince the existing membership to pay for more accounts.
Caldari Militia |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4808
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
It is of course literally unthinkable that people would fly with friends instead of being "forced" to open more accounts. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
54
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:25:00 -
[42] - Quote
Did I misunderstand somethig in the Devpost ?
When i read it, it was my understanding that :- Station Gaming will be much harder :- Neutral RR stops being neutral and becomes a valid target
Just sell your neutral RR alt, you might make 250m on it.
|
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:37:00 -
[43] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Dirael Papier wrote: They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first.
They are looking for gullible kills. if they wont take the prize the original can flip mechanic likely wouldn't have worked anyway. "whats this about suspect flagging on the can?" "Oh that's just a bug from the new winter mechanic, its your stuff remember" *click, pop*
HAHA If I read this correctly only the aggressor gets the timer. The guy you stole from does not have a timer and has no idea how much time is left before the timer expires. SO grief away delay talk crap kill time then drop it after the timer expires. He will want his stuff back! And will assume that he can get it back free without causing a crime. The game mechanics on aggression is the least understood mechanic in the game. Just look at low sec aggression. This can stealing will still work just takes a bit more time to pull off. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Bart Starr wrote:Dirael Papier wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:You're hunting stupid people remember. Take can. burn off timer as you mock them for doing a miserable profession. if they don't engage within the allotted time and your timer ends, drop the loot, say you were just busting his balls and wait for them to naively take it back. Then pop. Think of new interesting ways to disparage new players. It's easy. They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first. No, the safety switch won't stop them from taking the can. They are allowed to take the can without repercussions, because suspect's cans are free for anyone to take without penalty. So the way it works is: Rifter flips a Retriever's can. (Oh wait, Retrievers don't need jetcans anymore....well, lets just pretend, shall we?) Rifter gets Suspect flag. Retriever spawns a new can and takes his ore back. Rifter cannot engage Retriever. Anyone can engage Rifter, miner keeps ore. Of course, miners don't use jetcans anymore due to OP Retrievers and Macks.......
Yes they do the noobs stil jet can in cruisers before they skill up to a retriever. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1497
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:54:00 -
[45] - Quote
RAGE QU1T wrote:"Can Flipping" Ain't PvP, Trying killing something that actually shoots backs. then come back here to discuss. Am i the only one that read the long thread and came to the conclusion that a thief can 'can flip' and become a suspect to the whole of EVE, but then the original can owner can then retake the ore back without being shot?
(either because the can belongs to a suspect and is fair game, or because he was the original owner of the can, or because they are in a LE...ohjeez, new things to learn :/ ) TK is recruiting |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1497
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 09:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote: :- Neutral RR stops being neutral and becomes a valid target
Just sell your neutral RR alt, you might make 250m on it.
Or just buy more RR alts TK is recruiting |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 10:35:00 -
[47] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Beekeeper Bob wrote:All those new flashy targets won't encourage pvp? You need people to go flashy before you have flashy targets. CW2 works to curtail those people from going flashy in the first place. This is basically the problematic part that is called by people around. However, some believe that there are other options of how things will arrange themselves. One option is that people will congregate into hisec PvP corps ready to bring fleets with scouts, logi, EWAR and whatnot. It appears that it is encouraged these days anyways, and such coprs already exist, quite a lot of them.
Another option would be going into low. We don't know what will happen if lowsec people will be allowed into hisec. They probably will consider it hoping for some more pew. If this will happen, some people will go into low to harvest some goods there (ajustment may be needed, but you got the idea) as maybe entry systems will see a bit less trigger-happy people hanging around.
However, hisec PvP will only be less frowned upon if OOC logi and hideout OOC Orcas will go away. AFAIK logi will be considered valid combatants in CW2 (will they?), not sure about Orcas allowing timer-held ships to board them, then dock (same with carriers in lowsec, it's no better). IMO ships with ship hangar should inherit timers of those ships they accept on board (add warning message for Orca pilot when someone with a timer tries to dock in his Orca, with an option to accept (or not) such requests by default).
For those who prefered solo in hisec, CCP promised some sort of new mech to start a fight with another ship without aggroing entire Empire. I hope that this mech will still have provocative element in it the way canflipping or ninja-looting had, because something like duel mech will cause massive uproar within community. Seriously, I don't see how it is fitting to EVE. |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 10:41:00 -
[48] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:RAGE QU1T wrote:"Can Flipping" Ain't PvP, Trying killing something that actually shoots backs. then come back here to discuss. Am i the only one that read the long thread and came to the conclusion that a thief can 'can flip' and become a suspect to the whole of EVE, but then the original can owner can then retake the ore back without being shot? (either because the can belongs to a suspect and is fair game, or because he was the original owner of the can, or because they are in a LE...ohjeez, new things to learn :/ )
That is the way it works. But if you hang onto that ore for 15 minutes til the timer expires then drop the ore for him to reclaim. Then when he picks it up he becomes suspect to everyone in eve.
Also you are the one that gets the timer if I read that right not him. So its not likely he will be counting the time down. Although you will stop being flashy red after the timer expires so he does get a visual clue of when the timer ends. Still talk a good game and maybe he will bite and grab his ore back. Making him flashy red to everyone. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 10:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Am i the only one that read the long thread and came to the conclusion that a thief can 'can flip' and become a suspect to the whole of EVE, but then the original can owner can then retake the ore back without being shot?
(either because the can belongs to a suspect and is fair game, or because he was the original owner of the can, or because they are in a LE...ohjeez, new things to learn :/ ) Not to worry, chum. Using our brand-new technicolor decoder, anyone can have a total grasp of the new aggression mechanics after memorizing just two pages of multicategory spreadsheets! And with our patented time-release information system, you'll know exactly which of those mechanics are in a working state*, and which aren't. Why, it's so simple, even Greyscale could do it! Let's just ask the man ourselves...
CCP Greyscale wrote:I couldn't tell you with real certainty what would happen if one player remote-repped another.
Disclaimer: Use of technicolor decoder may lead to seizures, confusion, or creation of terrible threads in Crime and Punishment. Do not operate heavy drones while using the technicolor decoder. No, seriously, do not operate heavy drones while using the technicolor decoder; the resulting bug is unlikely to be fixed before 2016. Technicolor decoder not intended for use by people suffering from heart conditions, individuals prone to Dunning-Kruger effect, or owners of keyboards with malfunctioning Caps Lock keys. Excessive discussion of the technicolor decoder may lead to passive aggression on the forums. Understanding of technicolor decoder may lead to no aggression in-game. Warranty void where GCC timer applicable.
* May require up to six wiki updates after exploits are made public by Goonswarm. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
McFukinPate
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 11:02:00 -
[50] - Quote
Hisec isn't safe?
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Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
333
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 11:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
You're basing this theory that Highsec PvP will become less common on the 'Risk averse' nature of players, which isn't at all the fault of CCP. If players suddenly don't want to PvP in Highsec because it is too hard, then the fault is with them, not CCP, in providing for more or less PvP in Highsec.
Besides, they'll figure out a way to game the system eventually anyhow.
First example I can see occurring: Dropping a can that says 1v1 outside a station and waiting for someone to pick it up and get shot at by everybody. Somebody is bound to fall for it. Maybe I was actually sleeping in front of my computer and dreamed I posted. Certainly, it's not there now. |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
333
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 11:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: What tactics does CW2 curtail? Can-flipping goes away completely. No longer can the stupid be tricked into PvP. Ganking. CW2 does not eliminate ganking, but it does curtail certain aspects of the highsec gank. Neutral repping is curtailed, since they are open to attack by anyone. Station games are curtailed. That anyone with a suspect flag can be attacked by anyone (not only the person you aggressed) will curtail certain types of player-on-player aggression. Not too mention that victims get killrights just for being attacked, not for being killed. t.
I disagree with Can-flipping going away "completely". #1 - Not all places in EVE are well populated. If you find a miner in an empty high sec or with very few PVPers, you can can-flip him, and he can take the bait, or even take his ore back and then you end up with the same can-flip experience you did in the past. Can flip with a frigate, warp away, wait nearby with a backup friend for the miner to innocently take his can of ore back, he is now flagged suspect, and you can shoot him. Will this happen in populated systems as often? No. Is it more than a one man job? Yes. Does that destroy it? No. #2 - Killrights for being attacked in a criminal way isn't really that bizarre. Frankly, the few times you "Failed" to get the kill, you were expecting a kill right to happen anyways. And it only happens with high sec ships, not in low sec for shooting other ships. #3 - Station games are awful and should die a horrible death. If anything, Crimewatch doesn't do enough to create consequences for station games. Again, it relegates certain tactics to the backend high sec systems, which should be inherently less safe anyways, and thus you get a perk for moving into quiet high sec systems, and now you get a consequence. I think the changes are good.
I think you missed this bit: Quote:If I can legally attack the owner of a container, then I can legally take from the container. Maybe I was actually sleeping in front of my computer and dreamed I posted. Certainly, it's not there now. |
Dirael Papier
Nevermined Inc
17
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:22:00 -
[53] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Not sure where the outlaw comes in as it isn't mentioned in the Devblog -10 sec status |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2496
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:51:00 -
[54] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:While you may see a slight decrease in (for lack of a better term) illegitimate combat in high sec, other mechanics coming into being or being tweaked look quite likely to make legitimate combat far easier and more common. I'm referring to the bounty system, transferable kill rights, tweaks to the War Dec system, Ally system, and the delayed introduction of the mercenary market place... not to mention the likely implementation of a voluntary "Duel" or Limited Engagement system. The new war/ally system has significantly reduced the amount of wars waged in empire space. I've been checking out how many unique wars get declared every day post-Inferno, and the number is around 30-40. While I don't have concrete numbers for the pre-Inferno war volume (if you can convince CCP to give me some raw data, I'll make you some pretty graphs), some quick analysis of active war-focused corporations' war histories shows that the rate of outgoing wars has decreased to like a third of what it was before. You can blame the increased cost and the fact that it's no longer possible to cancel wars for this drop. I agree that transferable kill rights are likely to create a slight bump in pvp, though I've yet to see this "mercenary market" people keep talking about. Since the "duel" system will just replace can-flagging, it's unlikely to result in an increase in pvp.
I've seen Dev comments that indicate further tweaks to the War Dec system will likely be inbound for the very reasons you named, because you are correct, it did not have the desired effect in it's current form.
Mercenary Market didn't make it into game yet, and was the indication was that it would need to wait until this release. Of course plans can change, but I haven't heard otherwise yet.
When you look at both clear cut mechanics for a "duel" system (I hate that term ) combined with a reduced probability of outside logistical interference i think personal combat will rise. Many people currently avoid the "take my can" system because they figure a neutral repper is nearby, or they'll be tricked in some fashion.
Time will tell, my point is simply there are far more cards in play than are apparent at first glance that will have a significant effect on this whole situation. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
188
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 13:54:00 -
[55] - Quote
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Dirael Papier wrote: They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first.
They are looking for gullible kills. if they wont take the prize the original can flip mechanic likely wouldn't have worked anyway. "whats this about suspect flagging on the can?" "Oh that's just a bug from the new winter mechanic, its your stuff remember" *click, pop* And how is grieving noobs either PVP or good for the game??
Tricking noobs into letting you pop them is the type of behavior that has gotten ganking a bad name. Ganking a veteran miner who choose to fit for max yield instead of fitting a tank is one thing. Grieving a new player driving them away from the game is not acceptable behavior in any MMO.
MMO games rely on a strong community to survive and grow. Bringing in new players in one of the most important parts of keeping the community strong.
If I lived in your neighborhood and beat the hell out of you every time you stepped out your front door, for no reason other than you where new to the neighborhood, what kind of person would that make me? Certainly not an acceptable member of the community.
Just because it is a virtual world does not make such behavior acceptable. New players need to be encouraged to learn the game, not be grieved into quitting.
You my friend are nothing but a waste of space.
|
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2496
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Dirael Papier wrote: They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first.
They are looking for gullible kills. if they wont take the prize the original can flip mechanic likely wouldn't have worked anyway. "whats this about suspect flagging on the can?" "Oh that's just a bug from the new winter mechanic, its your stuff remember" *click, pop* And how is grieving noobs either PVP or good for the game?? Tricking noobs into letting you pop them is the type of behavior that has gotten ganking a bad name. Ganking a veteran miner who choose to fit for max yield instead of fitting a tank is one thing. Grieving a new player driving them away from the game is not acceptable behavior in any MMO. MMO games rely on a strong community to survive and grow. Bringing in new players in one of the most important parts of keeping the community strong. If I lived in your neighborhood and beat the hell out of you every time you stepped out your front door, for no reason other than you where new to the neighborhood, what kind of person would that make me? Certainly not an acceptable member of the community. Just because it is a virtual world does not make such behavior acceptable. New players need to be encouraged to learn the game, not be grieved into quitting. If you participate in such behavior, You my friend are nothing but a waste of space. To be fair, that's why can flipping is not allowed in starter systems already.
However if can flipping to get unsuspecting targets gets more difficult while the ability to easily get more prepared/aggressive opponents is significantly increased... I can live with that.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
189
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Bugsy VanHalen wrote:Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:Dirael Papier wrote: They'll have a safety switch on that will prevent them from stealing the ore back from a yellow can. So you'd have to find a way to convince them to turn the safety switch off first.
They are looking for gullible kills. if they wont take the prize the original can flip mechanic likely wouldn't have worked anyway. "whats this about suspect flagging on the can?" "Oh that's just a bug from the new winter mechanic, its your stuff remember" *click, pop* And how is grieving noobs either PVP or good for the game?? Tricking noobs into letting you pop them is the type of behavior that has gotten ganking a bad name. Ganking a veteran miner who choose to fit for max yield instead of fitting a tank is one thing. Grieving a new player driving them away from the game is not acceptable behavior in any MMO. MMO games rely on a strong community to survive and grow. Bringing in new players in one of the most important parts of keeping the community strong. If I lived in your neighborhood and beat the hell out of you every time you stepped out your front door, for no reason other than you where new to the neighborhood, what kind of person would that make me? Certainly not an acceptable member of the community. Just because it is a virtual world does not make such behavior acceptable. New players need to be encouraged to learn the game, not be grieved into quitting. If you participate in such behavior, You my friend are nothing but a waste of space. To be fair, that's why can flipping is not allowed in starter systems already. However if can flipping to get unsuspecting targets gets more difficult while the ability to easily get more prepared/aggressive opponents is significantly increased... I can live with that.
True, but new player rarely stick to the starter systems very long. And only new player are naive enough to fall for can flipping baiters. So if you are one of those player who get off on grieving new players. Than you are part of what is wrong with MMO's and you presence is nothing but a waste of space. |
Karrl Tian
Star-Trackers
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 15:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
True, but new player rarely stick to the starter systems very long. And only new player are naive enough to fall for can flipping baiters. So if you are one of those player who get off on grieving new players. Than you are part of what is wrong with MMO's and you presence is nothing but a waste of space.
Actually I use to flip veteran players successfully all the time. The trick is to use a mining ship (had an epic fight against a Hulk with my Retriever before the buffs). Oh well, was fun while it lasted. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
910
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 15:31:00 -
[59] - Quote
Station Games in front of trade hubs will most likely die a horrible death for the most part. Huzzah!!!!
Station games near quiet high sec systems will carry on.
I am perfectly ok with this.
Can flipping was always based on exploiting someones inability to make a good decision, not empowering the choice they had in the first place. Don't touch the can.
What you are all neglecting in this discussion, which is probably the more relevant one is the idea of a "Criminal Switch" That denies players to do certain actions that will activate certain flags.
Will that kill can flipping more than anything else? Yes.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Gaia Ma'chello
V.I.C.E.
27
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Posted - 2012.10.05 15:43:00 -
[60] - Quote
When you state it makes high sec safer, you need to average "safety" over all high sec residents, including the criminals. CW2 surely makes high sec more dangerous for criminals.
Non-criminals: Safer Criminals : Less safe (but fewer criminals, maybe). Average: ??? Its not clear that is it in fact saver on average.
There are other effects. For example, I see a criminal. Do I shoot? No, because it may be Im the only one who sees him as red flashy, and on my own Ill lose. Now I know everyone sees him as red flashy and I may be inclined to open fire, in hopes that others will join in, and victory will be ours. Naturally, this increases danger for me. In this way CW2 can increase danger for the non-criminal.
And if you do not like the rules of high sec, don't play there. High sec is just a small part of eve. |
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