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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1378
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Posted - 2012.10.08 03:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Sreegs, has there been a substantial shift in the numbers of high-sec bots you're catching since the release of the mining barge buff?
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?
If you aren't seeing more bots in high-sec and the numbers have changed substantially since Fanfest, is it reasonable for players to ask for an update? I ask this because the new demographics for botting may explain how a less time-sensitive lower-risk form of AFK PVE is healthier for the game in high-sec than its equivalent elsewhere.
Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
4977
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Posted - 2012.10.08 07:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
We can hope to get answers to this soon, I'd also like to see some info on the work towards spambots. But so far silence
/c
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Journies End
146
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Posted - 2012.10.08 07:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Posting cuz Im curious if theyll give us an answer. Good questions. Strength isnt measured in numbers but in force of will. For if one motived willful individual stands many will fall around him that are weak.
http://tinyurl.com/YarrFace |
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
773
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Posted - 2012.10.08 07:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them.
On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory.
Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are. I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1393
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Posted - 2012.10.08 07:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them. On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory. Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are. I posted an interrogatory comment. We'll see what comes of it.
Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
113
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Posted - 2012.10.08 09:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Well there is a blogger who scans the website for botters. He hasn't posted any of them whining about gankers really. They did whine alot when sreegs launched his assault on them. On his latest one, he said they complained about people reporting them, or other botters reporting them when they move into another botters territory. Here is his site. The Nosy Gamer, go ask him if he has read them whining about gankers and how much a threat they are.
Botters don't complain about gankers because the bots are programmed to warp off as soon as anyone else enters the asteroid belts. Or they were anyway, potentially there could be a botting increase and they don't warp off if they feel totally safe from regular ganking. If I was botting and I lost a 200m ship once every 4 months or so when someone did it "for luls" it wouldn't bother me too much.
On the other hand maybe it's easier for CCP to detect botters if they aren't fleeing every time someone enters the system hence the change |
Mara Rinn
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1896
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Posted - 2012.10.08 12:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?
As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners.
The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
649
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Posted - 2012.10.08 12:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's not fanfest yet. |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1757
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Posted - 2012.10.08 12:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators? As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners. The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game. I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1402
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Posted - 2012.10.08 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators? As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners. The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game. I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked. It will be interesting to see what CCP Sreegs has to say about it. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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ctx2007
Wychwood and Wells Beer needs you
154
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Posted - 2012.10.08 17:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
I only mine once in a while usually when i,m shipbuilding, but i,m guessing many full time miners are pretty sick to death of bot fleets raping the belts and RMT.
Something more needs to be done i,m sure. |
Rosewalker
Khumaak Flying Circus
9
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Posted - 2012.10.08 18:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter.
You didn't hurt my feelings But I hope that you don't demand that CCP Sreegs write the blog. CCP Stillman just gave a presentation at Eve Vegas that I hope he turns into a dev blog. That said, botters really don't post about getting ganked. There was a thread on one forum, but it stopped getting updated once Team Security really cranked their operations up. They do freak out about Hulkageddon, though.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.
According to the botting forums I read, there is a name for bots who mine 23.5/7: banned. People who bot for more than 8 hours a day and post about getting banned are usually mocked, which cuts down on the tears. Last week I read one bot dev tell the users of his courier bot to not use it more than 6 hours a day and to not run it more than two hours in a single session.
The Nosy Gamer:-á WoW reeks of fun and playfulness but ensnares players into a deception that spells W*O*R*K. Eve is Icelandic with Calvinist overtones - yet in its straightjacket there is opportunity to find one's own way towards a demeanor of play. One is a fall into an abyss, the other, a rise from one to redemption. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1404
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Rosewalker wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: Frankly I'm much more interested in what CCP Sreegs has to say on the matter.
You didn't hurt my feelings But I hope that you don't demand that CCP Sreegs write the blog. CCP Stillman just gave a presentation at Eve Vegas that I hope he turns into a dev blog. That said, botters really don't post about getting ganked. There was a thread on one forum, but it stopped getting updated once Team Security really cranked their operations up. They do freak out about Hulkageddon, though. Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: I would tend to agree with this sentiment. Mostly because the threat of being ganked for a bot is vastly different then the same threat for a player. A bot who can mine 23.5/7 can easily lose a ship and make up the difference that day where the player who may only have a few hours of time to play each day and is much more less efficient than the bot will take longer to make up the money lost by being ganked.
According to the botting forums I read, there is a name for bots who mine 23.5/7: banned. People who bot for more than 8 hours a day and post about getting banned are usually mocked, which cuts down on the tears. Last week I read one bot dev tell the users of his courier bot to not use it more than 6 hours a day and to not run it more than two hours in a single session. This is pretty insightful.
It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
909
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon. Were they happy about the recent EHP increase? Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge ****.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006
~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
777
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Posted - 2012.10.08 19:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
ctx2007 wrote:I only mine once in a while usually when i,m shipbuilding, but i,m guessing many full time miners are pretty sick to death of bot fleets raping the belts and RMT.
Something more needs to be done i,m sure.
How can you be sure of something you can't detect with player in game tools in the beginning???
There are a couple frustrated idiots in high sec not having the easy brainless gank available any more now bump some guy afk because they can, this is hilarious and actually demonstrates a lot about the nerdiness of some dudes.
They state you shouldn't have better or as much profits as them with their army of high sec alts: they just gank your ship before buff Now they're completely mad because they need to invest in ships to gank you, therefore you're a bot, you can't have kids, things to do rl or whatever because THEY decided if you do'nt respond to their nerdiness they simply bump you out of the belt.
There's not much to say about this but only that if you really wanted to go or see the greatest concentration of stupid you couldn't go at any better place or game then Eve online. Their number is really impressive and the single idea they actually can reproduce themselves just freaks me out.
Edit: @ Darth -good questions. Very interested in those incoming answers too. brb |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1409
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:It's certainly interesting to note they weren't happy about Hulkageddon. Were they happy about the recent EHP increase? What about the cavernous ore bays? He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
254
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.
Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)?
If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;)
Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;)
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1409
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.
Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)? If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;) Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;) A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that.
If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts.
Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers.
I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming.
TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
1214
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
I'm wondering is anything came of the Scarlet Letter discussion. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2422
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators? As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners. The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game.
The vast bulk of kills when BAT Country did the caldari ice interdiction were bots. Its very simple to pick them out just by the way they act. The easyest is the pod that thinks its still in a barge and keepson warping to and from the station. A shocking amount of them would reship and go back to mining while we were still active. I think the record was 7 barges from one guy in a single day.
The scale of mining bots is shocking right now but they are by far not the only large scale operations going on. |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1409
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators? As a human who partakes in mining, I would expect that the threat of ganking has a greater impact on the population of human miners. Thus I would expect that the introduction of the new barges has increased the population of human miners. The claim of "fighting bots" has only ever been a rationalisation on the part of the gankers. Just own up to the fact that you enjoy hunting the lowest form of prey in the game. The vast bulk of kills when BAT Country did the caldari ice interdiction were bots. Its very simple to pick them out just by the way they act. The easyest is the pod that thinks its still in a barge and keepson warping to and from the station. A shocking amount of them would reship and go back to mining while we were still active. I think the record was 7 barges from one guy in a single day. The scale of mining bots is shocking right now but they are by far not the only large scale operations going on. Not to mention that it's impossible to try to understand botting from a human perspective in the first place.
There's nobody home, McFly. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
254
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.
Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)? If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;) Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;) A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that. If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts. Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers. I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming. TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it.
The problem (I think) is that Sreegs simply can do casual answers on the forums.
Because if he did it would get parroted and twisted on every wannabe newssite (as in mitts or ev24).
And most likely dissected and analysed on at least 19 different blogs (and Jester would most likely find at least three ways himself :)).
So I don't think that Sreegs actually can't just lob out some random figures and hope that people will be happy.
Whatever he writes will be seen as Canon from CCP.
So, TL;DR: He has a lot to lose by stating a change in trends unless he can whip up serious hard data.
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1409
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Lors Dornick wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Lors Dornick wrote:Darth Gustav wrote: Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide.
Now, would you like him to create a dev blog with generic ramble (and herd it through corporate filters) or would you like to to keep his mouth (keyboard) shut and get on with his work of actually hitting people where it hurts (for them)? If anything, the security team needs a PR member with the job to create Dev Blogs and provide fake info ;) Oh, have I just outed Sreegs? ;) A casual answer on the forum will do. If there are more bots being caught mining now, that's that. If there aren't any more, or in fact less, that's that too. I don't really intend to dispute facts. Basically the only points I'd argue with Sreegs would be interpretive, such as if he says more bots are being caught now, but that doesn't have anything to do with the buff to mining barges and exhumers. I would probably just happily accept the data, though, in spite of the interpretation which will obviously stand on its own merit, should it be forthcoming. TL;DR: I sincerely believe Sreegs has nothing to lose by stating if there's a change in trends or not, and what he thinks about it. The problem (I think) is that Sreegs simply can do casual answers on the forums. Because if he did it would get parroted and twisted on every wannabe newssite (as in mitts or ev24). And most likely dissected and analysed on at least 19 different blogs (and Jester would most likely find at least three ways himself :)). So I don't think that Sreegs actually can't just lob out some random figures and hope that people will be happy. Whatever he writes will be seen as Canon from CCP. So, TL;DR: He has a lot to lose by stating a change in trends unless he can whip up serious hard data. Only if the data presents a very weak case for CCP does he have anything to lose.
And even then, it seems it would be in CCP's best interest to address this straightaway rather than skirt it.
After all, what's good for the goose, etc. Besides, simple data without interpretation would be just fine.
Facts should be facts, otherwise we can't discuss anything but theorycraft and rumor. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
254
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Posted - 2012.10.08 20:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Snip since we're getting gritty and people can scroll back
Darth Gustav wrote: Only if the data presents a very weak case for CCP does he have anything to lose.
And even then, it seems it would be in CCP's best interest to address this straightaway rather than skirt it.
After all, what's good for the goose, etc. Besides, simple data without interpretation would be just fine.
Facts should be facts, otherwise we can't discuss anything but theorycraft and rumor.
There's very few cases of data that are absolutely conclusive (except in mathematics).
CCP has every reason to not to hand out actual figures because they can be used to compare their success to other games more or less actual facts.
So there's a good reason why PR/Market doesn't like down and gritty people talk numbers.
And it's because no-one else is that stupid.
I do agree that facts should be facts, and everything else is theorycraft (also known as marketing).
However, despite Sreegs being (a hopefully former) Goon, I don't rate him as low as actually working in marketing.
TL:DR Facts are Facts. Marketing isn't related. And people not in marketing will not be allowed to speak for any company unless approved by the same. |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
344
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Posted - 2012.10.08 21:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:CCP Sreegs, has there been a substantial shift in the numbers of high-sec bots you're catching since the release of the mining barge buff?
Would you say, based on your response to the above, the threat of ganking was a deterrent to potential mining bot operators?
If you aren't seeing more bots in high-sec and the numbers have changed substantially since Fanfest, is it reasonable for players to ask for an update? I ask this because the new demographics for botting may explain how a less time-sensitive lower-risk form of AFK PVE is healthier for the game in high-sec than its equivalent elsewhere.
Thanks in advance for any responses you can provide. I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.
I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though. Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
66
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Posted - 2012.10.08 21:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
386
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Posted - 2012.10.08 22:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas. Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later.
http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./
Is a good location to find otu what was sayed. |
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries Solar Assault Fleet
255
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Posted - 2012.10.08 22:26:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Stillman wrote: I gave a presentation about our progress at EVE Vegas on Saturday. But it was pointed out to me afterwards that I forgot to include the breaking by region that I had on my machine at work.
I don't know what the answer is though at present. I'll have a look at the data when I get home though. But no promise though.
And might we guess that the data you released was "average" and that you had full freedom to discuss about those average figures?
Been there, done that, been on the next tier to decide what level of average is average enough too ;)
People please, continue to chase CCP for for data.
But don't chase Sreegs, Stillman or the rest of their team.
If you had any idea of their job you'd know that they want to talk facts.
But often is not useful, and sometimes not allowed.
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
344
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Posted - 2012.10.08 22:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas. The sessions were streamed on eve-radio. I imagine they'll be released later. Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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CCP Stillman
C C P C C P Alliance
344
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Posted - 2012.10.08 22:45:00 -
[30] - Quote
Salpun wrote:captain foivos wrote:Thanks, but I wasn't at Eve Vegas. Most EVE Vegas presentations come out as devblogs sooner rather then later. http://lowseclifestyle.blogspot.com./ Is a good location to find otu what was sayed. I can write it into a dev blog too. But please give us some time, as I'm currently in Vegas still and Sreegs has his hands full right now. Just a random dude in Team Security. |
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